WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
Join "amateur" historians Andrew and Liam (thrice bronze medalists in 'The South Yorkshire Rememberers Chalice') as they travel back in time like Nicholas Lyndhurst in Goodnight Sweetheart and try to remember things from the past.
Do you remember Woolworths? Do you remember when Marathons changed their name to Snickers? Do you remember Del Boy falling through the bar? If so then come and remember with us. If not then stick around and we will probably remember it for you. You literally can't lose so why not hit the play button as hard as Paul Sykes hit that shark?
WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
Who Remembers........When Take That Split Up?
February 13, 1996 wasn't just another day in British pop history—it marked the moment when Take That announced their split, triggering what can only be described as national mourning. Switchboards jammed with calls from devastated fans. The Samaritans established dedicated counselling services. This Morning received over 200,000 calls from distressed listeners—their highest number ever. Adults called in sick to work. What was it about this manufactured boy band that created such unprecedented emotional fallout?
This episode delves deep into the Take That phenomenon, tracing their journey from formation in 1989 to their domination of the charts with nine number one singles. We explore how the group was essentially built around Gary Barlow's songwriting talents, with Robbie Williams, Mark Owen, Jason Orange, and Howard Donald serving as his backing performers—a dynamic that would eventually create irreparable tension.
The fascinating aftermath of the split reveals how quickly fortunes can change in the music industry. Gary Barlow, once hailed as the next Elton John, watched his solo career rapidly decline while witnessing Robbie Williams rise to superstardom after a rocky start. The irony? Williams' breakthrough hit "Angels" was released as a last-chance single when he was on the verge of being dropped. Meanwhile, Barlow descended into depression, developed bulimia, and became a recluse—changing his name on credit cards to avoid being recognized.
But the story doesn't end there. Take That's surprising 2005 reunion shows how pop music's pendulum swings both ways, with the band finding success with a more mature audience and Barlow eventually reclaiming his position as a respected figure in British music. Through all the dramatic ups and downs, this episode captures how a seemingly superficial pop phenomenon revealed profound truths about fame, talent, and the emotional connections we form with our musical heroes.
Have you experienced the emotional impact of a favorite band breaking up? Share your stories with us at whorememberspod@outlook.com or find us on social media @whorememberspod.
player. He'll just be alright, I'm doing most of the talking. Hello and welcome to who Remembers the UK Nostalgia Podcast. And this week we are asking who Remembers when Take that Split Up the very first draw in Britain's new national lottery, Sinclair believe they're C5, Britain's first mass-produced electrical car.
Speaker 2:There's something called the internet.
Speaker 1:Stop shacking. Thanks, steve, but none of the locals got paddling. Yeah, that's for me. No paddling. This kid, I can't speak, you can't win anything with kids.
Speaker 2:Back now One of the superstar video games in the business. Did you threaten to overrule me?
Speaker 1:Before we became a fool again, remember when it's the lowest form of conversation. This is history.
Speaker 2:This is history. We're not in here. We're not in here. This is history.
Speaker 1:Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do of that. What was that first, that theme tune.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just doing a filler for the theme tune.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, this was right. So first, Jack asked us to do this and Nav has also asked us to do Take that vs E17. So hopefully this satisfies his needs too. But Jack said we're not blurring into that, are we? No, no, no, but no, we're just going to do Take that.
Speaker 2:We'll probably go back. I think another stage will probably.
Speaker 1:Well, he wants to take that it's half of what Nav wants. It's half of what Nav wants, but we will go back.
Speaker 2:I think we owe it to Nav to do 100% of what Nav wants. He's been with us since the start.
Speaker 1:We'll do take that A78 at a later date. But Jack says who remembers when Take that split up, hannah at school had to take a week off due to the distress caused. We all got told we couldn't mention Take that. When she returned to school, hannah had the week off school and spent all the time on the hotline. So I replied how is Hannah now? And he didn't get back, so I hope Hannah's all right. Yeah, this was massive, maybe not, maybe not. This was huge though weren weren't it at the time? The thing is I remember this at the time like, really I don't think it was a shock you've done all the research, yeah you've been away.
Speaker 2:I've been all this week. You're not as clued up as normal no, I've been. What do you call it like a recce for our road show? I roadshow. I've been in Chapel, st Leonard's, having a look around.
Speaker 1:You've been going out on a look, haven't?
Speaker 2:you, I swam it. But yeah, obviously I remember this 1995, we were 13.
Speaker 1:It's 1996.
Speaker 2:No, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's a great start, February 13th 1996.
Speaker 2:No, I've read. It was 95. I've read it's 95.
Speaker 1:I've heard two different versions. Right, this is this is this could hang on. When did Take that? This is a brilliant start.
Speaker 2:No, not. When did Take that split up? When did Robbie Williams leave? Take that, Are we doing? Are we doing?
Speaker 1:We're doing when?
Speaker 2:Take that split up, not when Robbie left, you told me All right, yeah, 96, then Fair enough.
Speaker 1:But we're both right in a way. But he is right, jack and Hannah, you know. Hopefully she's still with us.
Speaker 2:So was she upset about Robbie leaving, or was she?
Speaker 1:upset about taking that splitting up. Take that, take that splitting up. The Samaritans had to set up a special outline to counsel. You know, although they said like all four of them who were left were doing solo careers, record company switchboards were jammed with calls from distraught fans trying to come to terms with their shock split. Voluntary counsellors at the Samaritans and Childline were on standby due to so many phone calls obviously coming in. This morning with our mate Richard did a phone in for concerned parents and children and more than 200,000 people rang up to talk about take that splitting up and how it had affected either them or their children, and the number of calls counted by BT was the highest ever recorded on this morning. This is not my words, by the way. It says, even beating the one run by astrologer Russell Grant.
Speaker 2:I can imagine they had her on. Was it she jordy there? We mentioned her before.
Speaker 1:I think there's yeah, yeah, denise, denise, yeah, oh pet get in touch, give us a ring.
Speaker 2:Don't be doing anything silly, like I don't even know.
Speaker 1:She was jordy actually I think she were jordy or weir side at least, like she would definitely had that she were like oh well, you know what's the detective Vera. Is she Joda? I've never seen Vera.
Speaker 2:Oh, pet, don't worry about that, somebody's being killed.
Speaker 1:It's Gary Barlow's career. But I looked at a few articles from the time and one report this was from I think it was Daily Mail. This at the time it said Caroline, a 30-year-old from Essex, has been unable to work since. Take that, shock the pop world by announcing their split. What a lot of bother. What a skiver. That's a riot. It's 30.
Speaker 2:And you're going, I just can't come in. It's all sorts of that now. These days, though, isn't there Like people can't work for all sorts sorts of reasons these days? Imagine that?
Speaker 1:what would your boss honestly say? Obviously I don't know. Like, what would honestly your boss if you'd have phoned up? Oh, I'll say your missus, because obviously they were aimed at girls more than boys. Uh, take that um, but if I don't know, your missus. Phones work up and where is yeah um, and phones up and said, look, I know this sounds ridiculous, but imagine you're the boss. In fact, this is the role. We'll do a reverse thing.
Speaker 2:This is like Carl Perlkington when he's working, yeah. When he's trying to get the sick, yeah. So you're the boss.
Speaker 1:Alright, mate, I'm a girl, by the way, because I'm 25. I'll get Caroline.
Speaker 2:Don't call me mate, I'm your boss. Yeah, alright, looking forward to work today. Yeah, everything okay. Oh, have you heard about Take that? Yeah, bit of a shame, not that bothered, get yourself in, I'll get you a coffee.
Speaker 1:I can't come in, it's hit me too much. I'm really, really sorry. I've been crying all morning. They were the first band that I loved. I just can't believe it that's fine.
Speaker 2:I love the Beatles.
Speaker 1:They don't exist anymore get yourself into work, have a coffee.
Speaker 2:We'll have a chat about it. You can even play a little bit.
Speaker 1:Well, this is affecting my mental health in a big way. I think as a company, you have a duty to care for the well-being of your employers, and this might not seem a big thing to you, but I just love Barlow and the boys.
Speaker 2:Look you know, never forget, they'll still be there. That's one of boys. Look you know, never forget, they'll still be there. I want you back in for good. She's crying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one of the songs never forget.
Speaker 2:That was one of the final ones. Anyway, yeah, just you know, get yourself to work.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm not coming in. Bye. Anyway, I could go on for eight, you're sacked. That is a sackable offence, I think. So yeah's, absolutely. If you had that on your I don't know. Like, when you go in you say, hang on, you've had a bit of time off, what were you off for last, last time? Well, take that splurge.
Speaker 2:Imagine saying that out loud imagine going through your sort of sickness record like so you've got this one here. What was that? Oh, boy's on, boy's on split you know five?
Speaker 1:Do you remember Shed 7? You have the darkness, don't you? Obviously, there is.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously I kind of get again, like you said we're being anti-racist.
Speaker 1:This woman was 30, by the way. Yeah, that's the bit I'm not having.
Speaker 2:I get sort of a teen with posters on the wall, Absolutely yeah, I'm thinking girl, I get sort of a teen with posters on the wall, absolutely. Yeah, I'm thinking girl could be a boy but loads of posters, posters, posters, poisters on the wall. New Jersey, I've got to take that posters. But yeah, no, I can kind of get why to be upset, why I suppose it kind of feels like a death if this is your love, your passion.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you can't have grown people not doing something the closest I can, and people might laugh at this. I've never phoned in sick for this, but when Sheffield United lost to Wigan at home and we were both there you pushed a bin over you with that angry. I went into work the day after, or it might have been two days after. I felt sick. I genuinely felt sick that we got relegated, but imagine me phoning in saying I just can't come in with being relegated.
Speaker 2:I bet there are fans who have done that, though, to be fair, maybe so Well, I think what you do these days is you just sort of put it down to mental health, which yeah, that's what Caroline's saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I sympathise in a way if it's made you feel so low you genuinely are unable to.
Speaker 1:He's a skyper 30-year-old woman is not coming in because take that split, oh ridiculous. Anyway, as I'll get to, I think it was pretty obvious what I think with this take that split.
Speaker 2:I remember at the time not being shocked whatsoever because Robbie, do you want to start with the Robbie Williams bit, seeing as that's the only thing I've actually looked up?
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what I'll do. A brief history. Take that. But just before we get to that, the announcer split on the 13th of february 1996 and gary barlow and I'll try to do a barlow accent, he's quite hard actually thanks for everyone's support. In the last five years you've been absolutely fantastic. How deep is your love is going to be our last single together and the greatest hits is going to be our last single together and the Greatest Hits is going to be our last album. For today it's no more and the rumours are true. There is no more. That's how he did it, pretending to cry. And obviously what we're thinking is my solo career is going to be fucking massive. Fuck you, the money is mine. I think that's what Barlow was thinking deep down.
Speaker 2:Well, I think he said since, hasn't he? Again, I keep trying to take it back to the only bit I've looked up, but I think when Robbie Williams left he said he was jealous that he went off and kind of seemingly well, he did not, seemingly.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll get on to that, but at this point, at this point, and I think Barlow thought I'm more talented than him. Nah, I think you've got your timeline a little bit wrong here, because Barlow Williams at this point wasn't really doing it.
Speaker 2:He had a couple of minor hits but he wasn't the big solo star that he became. No, but I've read a thing from him, from Barlow but yeah, later down the line. Yeah, I was a bit jealous that he had the bottle to kind of jump and go and do it on his own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, but we'll get to that. So a brief history take there, I'm not going to go into it. We properly when we do E7. Did you mention Lulu? I'm not going to mention Lulu, fortunately. I can't stand Lulu. I can't stand her based on one interview that I saw her at Glastonbury and she said something like I mean, I played here in 1960, whatever the fuck it was, and I'm back here now and it just shows that, you know, talent never dies or something like that, basically saying it's like no, your ears are like a bit of a cabaret art, lulu. You know, next to Forsythe he played one. Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2:She was stunning. Early days Lulu.
Speaker 1:Was she in Heartbeat, lulu, have I made that up?
Speaker 2:completely. No. I don't know if there was a barmaid who had a hair a little bit like.
Speaker 1:Lulu, she was in Dawn and French, french and Saunders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she just kept doing yeah yeah, yeah, they kept stopping her. Yeah, I think she had to shoot her dead, to stop it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, this is not the Lulu episode. So in 1989, Manchester-based Nigel Martin Smith sought to create a British male vocal singing group based on New Kids on the Block. Are you a fan of them, by the way? I only really know.
Speaker 2:The only thing that I can think of new kids on the block is the eminem lyric about them, which I won't repeat yes, you can't say yeah, you can't say that well, you could, because I do think the explicit box. But yeah, these days you can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, new kids on the block. So glad, dick, I've done it anyway. Um, you just can't say that you can't, you can't, you literally can't was. You just can't say that you literally cannot say that On a podcast.
Speaker 2:These days you can't say that. Can you Sound?
Speaker 1:like Ricky Gervais on his Netflix specials. What I've just said, you cannot say that anymore. Yeah, but you've just said it, ricky. You can't say it, you can't say it.
Speaker 2:Well, you couldn't say it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, as we spoke about before, smith was introduced to young singer-songwriter Gary Barlow, who had been performing in clubs since the age of 15. Impressed with Barlow's catalogue of self-written material, martin Smith decided to build his new look boy band around Barlow's musical abilities and employed Jason Orange, howard, donald, mark Owen, robbie Williams to basically form Take that. Robbie has since said that they were essentially all just backing dancers for the Gary Barlow band. Did you get that at the time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, maybe not at the time I didn't see Barlow as the frontman because I didn't know a lot of the songs were his. So at the time maybe this is sort of the early divisions, but I kind of sort of saw Robbie as the frontman all the way through anyway, and I think that's probably why him and Mr Barlow clashed all the time.
Speaker 1:It's interesting though, because they did a lot of cover songs, early doors and the first big hit were it Only Takes a Minute Girl, which is a cover of the Tavers hit from 1975. But Barlow did get a few singles out himself, the biggest one at the early stages being A Million Loves yeah, good song. Few singles out himself, the biggest one at the early stages being a million love, which is a brilliant song, brilliant song by the second album.
Speaker 1:Though in 1993 everything changes. All the songs on the album bar two were barlow pen numbers and that album everything changes.
Speaker 2:Is that? Is that a barlow song?
Speaker 1:yeah I thought that recover, that, yeah, that that was barlow. I thought that recover. But that album had four consecutive number one singles, all written by Barlow Pray, which is a good song Real Light, my Fire obviously Lulu Babe I Don't Like. And Everything Changes, which is one of the best and I think from 93 to 95, they were undoubtedly the biggest group in England. They never broke the US really.
Speaker 1:But whether or not you liked this manufactured boy band, yeah, I that that period there they did actually do some good songs I think at the time and this is me trying to be cool at the time, I don't know 95, 96, when I'm sort of getting into brit pop and stuff and I hated all this like what's you know? Oh, fake music, spy skills and all this sort of stuff you know you can, only you can buy I don't know what's, what's the way like what you call it, marketing sort sort of. You know, that's all it's about. You're making money and it's plastic and everything. I never hated Tate. I never, ever, ever hated Tate. I wasn't a fan, but I don't think you can argue that Back 4 Good is obviously.
Speaker 1:That was always a good song. There's no. Do you know what I mean? That?
Speaker 2:I know you love songs like that.
Speaker 1:It's a fantastic song. Yeah, genuinely really good. Yeah, nine number one singles in three years.
Speaker 2:Incredible. That's really good, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but one of the members was no happy and obviously, as you've spoken about, that was Mr Robbie Williams, and Robbie, by this point, was well into his drugs. He was hanging around with Oasis and all the cool kids. He appeared on stage with Oasis at Glastonbury and then the following month the band basically said you've got an ultimatum. You know you either adhere to Barlow's schedule, you know you, either do what Barlow tells you to do Sit down and shut up Robbie.
Speaker 1:Sit down and shut up, robbie. I write the songs here. We're not any of this, none of this drug stuff. And basically Williams chose to leave, which shocked, I think, a lot of the band. Obviously Williams chose to leave, which shocked, I think, a lot of the band. But Williams has since said he was just pissed off that Barlow were the leader of the group and everything went through Barlow.
Speaker 2:Well, my understanding is that he was told, I don't know, by Barlow or by the sort of whoever put them together, the management team, that you've got to protect this kind of clean image. Yeah, and he absolutely did not want that. He was saying his musical tastes were very different to theirs. He liked Rock, weren't he? He was into all the Britpop stuff, weren't he? Well, yeah, but he liked the sort of Go on like the sort of American Sweet the Rat Packs, not like gangster rap as such, but kind of straying into that territory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't think of an example, but anyway, he said a few and he said, like that, that's not my music. Like I liked, uh, ice cube and I, but it was kind of trying, they were trying to force him into being something he wasn't happy with. They said he, he pushed back a bit by shaving his head, by, yeah, sort of making it known that he'd been out late night parties and things, and then the. The version I've seen is that he said to him look, I'll do this world tour with you or whatever. The tour was the big tour that they finished, and then split.
Speaker 1:Imagine the Gary Barlow tour, yeah.
Speaker 2:But he said basically I'll do that tour with you, but then I want out. And they said, well, no, if you want to go, go.
Speaker 1:So he left. William has since said as well he was intensely jealous of Barlow, because obviously Barlow was, he was Tate that.
Speaker 2:It's funny because in a way, they kind of both. They both sort of wanted to be a blend of themselves, didn't they? I think Robbie wanted that sort of ability to the sort of raw talent, and Gary wanted the sort of charisma and the star quality.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, we'll get to that after, if you want, with what happened next bit, but say that did carry on, though. After, uh, robbie left and the next single was, for my money, their best ever one, which is never forget, which I think so did you record?
Speaker 2:that with robbie? Does robbie feature in that?
Speaker 1:he features in that. Yeah, but he'd left, but by the time it had come, out.
Speaker 2:Uh fitting tribute to the man, though fitting tribute to the man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this should have been their final song, because the lyrics are great. It's about baller realizing that basically they take that, yeah, take that we're coming to an end because they have a shelf life. You know what I mean. Every boy band does, and it obviously is that someday this will be someone else's dream yeah, I love her.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know why I find it funny that we're not invincible. I don't know how they find it funny that we're not invincible. I don't know why they sing it like that. We're not invincible, we're not invincible. It's basically Barlow that saying this is why it wasn't a shot. We are going to split up. Get ready for it. I'm going to go solo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they couldn't be a forever boy band, could they? No, I know there's a sort of retro feeling now where some of these are getting back together and five and things like that, and you're getting them doing butlins and it's. It's for sort of our generation to go and re re-remember stuff and uh, who remembers?
Speaker 1:but what kind of idiots go to nostalgic, you know, listen to nostalgia um yeah, who wants to remember anything these days?
Speaker 2:but no, I, I kind of get exactly what his point was. I mean, I mean, barlow was never a sort of cool guy even in his youth, so they were never going to sort of stay relevant to a teen audience.
Speaker 1:No, no no, I think Mark Owen apparently was the most popular one out of the group. He was the cute one, wasn't he.
Speaker 2:He's another boring bastard, though isn't he?
Speaker 1:I'll do some research into this. I'll get to it in a bit.
Speaker 2:So sorry, gary, that Robbie's gone, are we okay?
Speaker 1:I think Kate Beedon, who's a long time listener to this podcast, is a big Mark Owen fan.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to stick up for him. A little bit later on.
Speaker 1:You should be slugging me off again listening to it with that bar. Yeah, but the final single came, how Deep Is your Love, which I think is absolutely appalling single and I think it's a terrible one. Guts are number one. I just think the original's bad. Bee Gees are a band that I don't like and, yeah, I think they're just going through the motions.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a yeah cover of a kind of borderline novelty song.
Speaker 1:How deep is your love. How deep is Terrible. And I remember that coming out thinking how you deserve to split up. I think by that point Barlow would have probably been stopped writing songs.
Speaker 2:I wonder if they'd have done For Whom the Bell Tolls, if that could have kept them together, that's a great song what's For Whom the Bell Tolls? But I would be lost without you see me losing you.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is, but when my heart breaks. It sounds better than how Deep Is your Love? Oh yeah, it's loads better. So I'll just put it like why did this play For whom the bell tolls Sounds good, so why did this play? Robbie leaving obviously was a blow, but they did have two number one singles following that. I think they could have squeezed another year out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but surely never forget he was in. So was it too after that he was in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think they were popular enough to carry on going, though, like I said, they got to the moment with how Deep Is your Love, which is objectively terrible, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, factually yeah.
Speaker 1:That's it facts.
Speaker 2:Can we say factually, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's a fact, well, it's not. I think we've got to number one. But yeah, we don't like it, we condemn it.
Speaker 1:We condemn how deep is your love by taking that. The main reason, though, I think, was Barlow had basically just outgrown the need to be in a group. He was the leader, everything went through him. Absolutely. He needed to take that in the early days due to marketing, because, as you said, he's not the most charismatic uh, front man, but this is like a guy who won an ivan avello award, which is incredible for a boy songwriter.
Speaker 1:Guys, I'm invincible I think he was always the talent. I think robbie obviously became a talent, but at this point barlow didn't need to take that. It didn't seem like he needed to take that. They weren't a credible group in terms of the music press, but he was a credible songwriter. I don't know if you agree with that.
Speaker 2:I do, but I think the problem is I'm not sure how many of the fans were buying records because of Gary Barlow. Maybe he liked his music so had he been a writer behind the scenes or had there been cover songs?
Speaker 1:but he said before he said that everyone expects Balma.
Speaker 2:He didn't have the charisma and don't get me wrong, by the way I think he's sort of grown into becoming a bit more charismatic, a bit more likeable. I think the thing he did with COVID, where he sort of plays his piano with his big face on the camera, I think that's great. But in this era I know what you mean he didn't need to take that, in a sense that he was the talent.
Speaker 1:Well, he did as it turned out.
Speaker 2:he did need him, but he did because it wasn't much other than the background talent if that makes sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, completely. He's a fairly sort of handsome chap, but it just doesn't have any sparkle to him, does it? I saw I can't even remember what it's called but his second single. It did get to number one and I was watching atop of the pop's appearance of it and he's not behind his piano and it's just him singing. He's just like I don't know jiggling about.
Speaker 2:Keep on walking down that.
Speaker 1:No, that's a decent song that were his third song my life is extraordinary, it's brilliant, unbelievable thought to a song. My life is extraordinary, fair. But yeah, everyone, he said himself Barlow had been told by everybody you are the. It's an unbelievable thought to a song. My life is extraordinary, fair. But yeah, everyone, he said himself. Barlow had been told by everybody you are the talent. You are going to be the next Elton John. You are going to be the next George Michael left Wham. Wham weren't seen as a credible group. Look at Michael now. And he said he sort of believed in it himself.
Speaker 2:Do you think, though, had he kept back a couple of big hits Because it seemed like he sort of used his big hits on Take. That, and then he didn't have any massive ones to go back to.
Speaker 1:Do you think part of it was that?
Speaker 2:Because John obviously wasn't trying to sell to sort of a teen girl audience. So maybe he could have moved into more of that mode had he kept back some of his better songs. I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting call songs. I don't know. That's a really interesting quote. Yeah, I don't know. I really really don't, because his first two singles did get to number one. Can you remember his comeback single? And I remember at the time thinking and I had a lot of time for Barlow I thought, well, he's the guy who writes.
Speaker 2:And it was just him on a piano.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm not surprised. Unbelievably boring, but his first two songs did get to number one, but he very, very, very quickly fell out of favour.
Speaker 2:I like the one, because I think they had I don't know if they had a child that either died young or that was stillborn or something, but he wrote a really, really good song for his kid. I can't remember.
Speaker 1:I think I remember that. Yeah, but that's actually really good.
Speaker 2:It's kind of quite moving. Weren't that later on that? Yeah, maybe it was, yeah.
Speaker 1:But you're right, though, about the songs, because he said himself within six months. The piano drove me mad. I'd spend days just looking at it, lying underneath it, rubbing my face on it, slowly going insane, trying to work out why this thing wasn't delivering to me like it used to. It wasn't about not being famous anymore or not even being a recording artist. It was having nobody who needed me. No phones were ringing and I had nothing to do.
Speaker 2:It's quite sad, because he's obviously a talented guy.
Speaker 1:Obviously, writer's block is one thing, but going through writer's block when you've just started a solo career is the worst possible time, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we said, he sort of gave them his good stuff and then he couldn't write any more good stuff. Just on that, that, let Me Go, is the one I was talking about.
Speaker 1:Let Me Go, yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is an absolutely fantastic song. But I think you're right. I think that is much later on, but you know, I feel for him a bit because he sort of thought right, that's it, I'm ready to go ready to go and then it was kind of like, right, what songs have you got?
Speaker 1:um, my life is extraordinary. That is probably one of his best solo songs, in fairness, but he lost his comfort. I didn't know this. This is from a robert williams documentary that I'm watching, um, and he says barlow suffered from bulimia. He became a recluse and he even changed his name on his credit card because he didn't want people to know he was gary barlow. That is how much of like of a national joke he came actually didn't he sort of go out in hoodies and grow his hair?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, and he got obviously really put loads of weight on and stuff he didn't want to be seen. And everyone were like, yeah, um, I remember him being a national joke and I were really young at the time, talking 1999 here, so I'd left, left school and stuff. But he was a joke. And one of the massive reasons he became a joke is because how big Robbie Williams became and they were like, oh yeah, this boring Barlow guy who thought he was Italian. Yeah, well, you know, look at what we've got here. We've got Robbie and he's far more charismatic with far better songs.
Speaker 2:Did Robbie write? He had a guy write him with him didn't he?
Speaker 1:Guy Riche, guy Chambers, guy Riche, yeah, guy Chambers, but weird with Robbie's career this is. I found this really interesting. He started off his first hit with Freedom, which is a George Michael cover, which is a big hit, but you know it's just a cover song, and then he had remember I hope I'm old before I die remember that one live to relive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, days gone by good song, but wasn't?
Speaker 1:it got to number two but it didn't stay in the charts or anything like then he had lazy days. Calling to, it went around this brit pop thing.
Speaker 2:I did some good stuff but he had some terrible lyrics. What's the? And here's a good line to take you to the bridge. Take you to the bridge.
Speaker 1:You used to think that were like right, deep line, didn't you? You thought that were about suicide. It literally just seems. I'm taking this line as the bridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's taking it to the sort of bridging guitar part.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah bridging the song. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I thought it was better than it was. Yeah, but there were nothing to suggest Robbie were going to be anything other than like a where are they now? Thing in a few years. He wasn't like he had a few years, but he wasn't critically sort of liked and he wasn't getting huge hits. He released South of the Border, which I don't think I've even heard no, I don't know that. And he says himself. He said that didn't get the top 10 and they said right, we're gonna put one more single out from your album and if it flops, you dropped. And he said, like, with it being the full single, he thought, well, no one's gonna buy it because everyone who's interested in me has already bought the album. And the fourth single was angels, which I found that really mad that that was the. That was the last chance alone. The angel. Why not release that as like your second or third song?
Speaker 2:No, keep that back for the point of failure.
Speaker 1:But it's almost like a movie, though. It's almost like because at this point Barlow's getting his number ones and Robbie's going into the dirt and Robbie's like, oh, better put that. You know that amazing song that we've got on our album Probably the only actually good song on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could do, couldn't we. Yeah, we could do, couldn't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we could do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, I better put it out. And obviously, sliding doors moment. I mean there was talk I've read it elsewhere that they were never going to put that out as a single, even like as the fourth song. Let Me Entertain you, come out after that.
Speaker 2:But the only but that angels is something like again, I don't have any facts to hand um you don't need for the research, no, you're just remembering but I think I think is that, like the the most played funeral song or top five and also top five most karaoke song or something it's well, it's influence on sort of culture is huge Fan of the show.
Speaker 1:friend of the show. Berlin Blade obviously led a communal sing-along in a Berlin toilet of angels, so that's how big that song is. You don't get that for Gary Barlow my life. Honestly. Try and do that next time.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear someone start that next time.
Speaker 1:It's extra. Keep on walking down that open road. But like you say, barlow was just boring in comparison to this all-round entertainer egomaniac Robert Williams.
Speaker 2:Well, he had his mad rap that we've not touched on yet, which is I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams. That's when he lost it. He became massive.
Speaker 1:He played Never, with Three days in a row, he played it twice. He only did that to get one. This is why he did the Ego. I think he did do an album, didn't he called the Ego has Landed, in fact.
Speaker 1:Yeah he did, yeah, and he did three nights at Never With, just so he could send a letter to Noel Gallagher saying you said it were history. Obviously, the last quote on our theme tune you say it was history when you played Neb with two knights I guess it's just greedy playing three knights and everything and he offered Liam Gallagher out. Can you remember that Under a grand of your money, under a grand of my money, we'll get in the ring and we'll sort it out and you can all watch it at home. Can you remember that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Liam would have smashed him to bits. To be quite honest with you.
Speaker 1:Liam's not in the country at the time. And then there's a bit after where Liam Gallagher's going yeah, the fucking fat bastard fucking said it when I went in the fucking country, yeah. And then they go to the Q Awards after and Liam sort of like offers Robbie out and Robbie comes on stage and goes. I'm just going to shut me gob, but it was just huge, absolutely huge. But I found this really sort of sad. As I was doing the research for this. I found it really. I've got a lot of respect for Well, not a lot of respect for Gary Barlow, but a lot of pity for Gary Barlow. He released his second album, which massively undersold, and it was dropped from his record label the very same month that Williams had his number one single, she's the One, and he quit as a singer.
Speaker 2:He said single, she's the one. And he quit as a singer. He said that's I'm done. I've done with the music. I really like that. Can you imagine that? That's the ice rink? Yeah, yeah, it's. Not only has he failed, but he's watching his, his sort of enemies at this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at this point they hate it. Well, williams was just calling him out all the time like he used to do uh, take that versions, but punk versions, almost taking the piss out of his song. You're, you know, like Back 4 God, whatever you want, whatever you said, you didn't mean it Almost like taking the piss out of this fucking yeah and yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I like to see him do what he does Boo Blade, you know where? He sort of just changes the timing of it like a million love songs later.
Speaker 1:I like yeah you'll love it when you when he adds like uh, little words in, so like he'll do.
Speaker 2:She's the one one for me, like you'll just add little bits in boob and if there's somebody, well, she might be calling, she's calling me on, she might be the one should probably mention that, as far as I can see, I would donald and jason are on.
Speaker 1:She didn't really do much at all. Mark Owen um did have a solo career and he had a couple of hits with Child and probably his biggest hits were Clemens.
Speaker 2:Remember Clementine, Clementine, yeah, yeah yeah, I'm happy to say I don't remember that. Now, I find him slightly ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I can't like his voice. What I'm going to stick up for Marco in thought. I didn't know. This his first album the Green man, not the pub in Wembley is. He wrote every single song on that album which I had no idea about. It might have been crap, but I don't know. Be for fair play awards. Be for fair play awards to him now.
Speaker 2:I think one of the reasons I've never been a big fan of his, but I think his singing on Shine he's bad. I mean we do loads of singing on here.
Speaker 1:We're professional singers. Well, yeah, we're bored a lot. Bolo, you should do X Factor. He might be listening to this, actually thinking he might give us a contract. I liked it, simon. I liked it.
Speaker 2:I'd give him a contract, it I'd give him a contract?
Speaker 1:um, but no, I think on that shine it's ridiculous the vocals it's too high for his voice. That wasn't a song for him that barlow should have sang that yes, it's that.
Speaker 2:It just doesn't work. Like I know people love the song but like, um, what did folly say that I changed that? I changed key seven times or something in a verse and a chorus. So, I'm not saying I can do it better, I'm just saying yeah well, I'm not saying it, you can say it, you can think it, but on the big stage getting paid the big bucks, that's just not good enough.
Speaker 1:It's not good enough, mark. It was a massive hit. Were it Sanger's advert or it way too? Yeah, one of them. I think they did use it on one of them. I can't stand that song. But talking of that, they reformed. Obviously barlow reformed. Take that and they were quite surprisingly huge.
Speaker 2:Again, patience, obviously what was the guy single when? When did it come?
Speaker 1:2005, so we're talking 20 years. Uh well, just just under 20 years that they came back in 2005.
Speaker 2:Hold on. What year did it come back? 2005. 2005. When they split up 96, are we saying yeah, that's not 20 years. Then is it.
Speaker 1:It's 10 years, as I said.
Speaker 2:Well it's nine actually, as I said well, nine, but yeah, 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 10 years 20 years would have been insane, wouldn't it? Thinking about it, 20 years of tape art, yeah, yeah, 2005, yeah, 2005. Just call it a million. I get confused. A million years later, when the 90s go to the noughties, I get confused quite a lot. As I was doing the research for this, I was getting confused about hang on Barlow splitting. He says it's like he did his last song in 2000, but his last album in 1999, that's 10 years after. But it's not like it's one year after. It's an easy mistake to make, I think. I think most people know what.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about Easy mistake to make.
Speaker 1:Anyway, they came back. Patience number one, which is a brilliant comeback song. Have a little patience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good song actually, so they came back as a four did they.
Speaker 1:They came back as a four and they were the first boy band to successfully reform. Like everyone does it now like five blue. Even e17 came back for a little bit, but none of them got anywhere near like how successful. They were all arguably bigger when they came back than they were in the pump, to be fair, um and and, like I say gary and gary barlow, by this point they went back doing sort of like stadiums and things didn't they, didn't they come back to like massive gigs I think I make traveling, I think he's seen him like.
Speaker 1:I think they became far more credible as well, like do you know what I mean? Like they weren't just a boy band. They came back and be like oh yeah, actually a man band, a man band. Weirdly, and I don't know why robbie and gary can't be successful at the same time, but their comeback sort of coincided with the bag of shit real, like a coin, aren't they where if?
Speaker 1:one's up the other one's down yeah, so robber his popularity, this is when he'd lost it, got that massive record deal and that horrible I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams and I think everyone at that moment looked at robbie and thought something about you that I don't like and yeah, and then. But then robbie came back for a bit in 1999.
Speaker 2:I still think he did some okay songs I love, as you know. I might even have mentioned it before. I'll probably mention it to you most days in private, but I love the advertising space. I think it's Elvis tribute video's great. I love the tone of it, the sort of really relaxed do-no-no-no-no-no. Start it brilliant.
Speaker 1:Like I say, he came back and obviously they were a five-piece again and since then, jason Orange, did he do anything? Orange, were you the dancer? Was that Howard the Duck? No, I would at least never forget which is the best song, in my opinion? Oh, did it? Yeah, no, I thought that for age of it's not, it's howard what's his name?
Speaker 2:how, jason orange, who's?
Speaker 1:howard, howard, what howard donald?
Speaker 2:I think that's why I always think of the duck, because there was howard the duck and there's also donald. He's got like double duck, you know, know. I think that's why I was thinking of him as the duck.
Speaker 1:The duck, yeah, but look, he did never forget. Don't slag him off, no yeah, no, I apologise.
Speaker 2:I've always sort of If there's any, take that aficionados. You always thought of him as double duck but I didn't know.
Speaker 1:he sang that. If there aficionados listening, tell us if Orange actually did something, because I don't remember him doing anything.
Speaker 2:I can't even picture him. You can say for Duck Lore Orange as well can't you the two ducks in the background? Yeah, Maybe this is the thing. Like the other three, mark Owen will turn out like some sort of Swedish word Mark Owen sounds a bit like a duck. Mark Owen, like it'll be something like a rare duck or something like that.
Speaker 1:But he does sound like a duck as well. That's the catch, that's the catch. But, like I say, 2006 Rude Boy, rude Boy, rude Boy, rude Box came out, and although it got to number one, it was massively so. His album before I'm just looking now sold 6.2 million.
Speaker 2:Who are we on now?
Speaker 1:Robbie this is Robbie and Ruboc sold 515,000, so a massive flop by his normal standards, but he's still getting number ones now, and so I take that the question I'm going to ask you is who's bigger now, robbie Williams or Taylor?
Speaker 2:Taylor, I love Robbie Genuinely, without irony, or I'm not laughing at him or I know he gets a lot of stick and a lot of hate from people. I really like Robbie Williams but yeah, I kind of thought he had his moment of success and then he failed. I get it loads of rock stars and pop stars and musicians. It felt like he was trying too hard to go for a younger audience. It just didn't seem right to me.
Speaker 1:I think it happens to a lot of artists, where you get that big and you think do you know what he calls? It what were his hits off Rudebox. Rudebox, the song, I think, with the biggest hit.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what that is and I consider myself a fan it wasn't like a big.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like a big hit whatsoever. I'm just having a look, just bear with me. I'm just looking at his singles now.
Speaker 2:Rock DJ, fantastic song 2006, rudebox yeah, fantastic song yeah, Got to number four.
Speaker 1:Rudebox, Advertising Space, by the way, were before Rudebox, so yeah, advertising space, by the way, before Rudebox, so yeah, and then he's had a couple of. He had a number two hit with, oh, number one hit with Kande, which I can't think what that is no, I don't know what that is. He had a number one hit and then he's not had a hit. He's literally can't get a hit for Love and the Money since 2016. No hits, no top 40 hits for Rob A since 2016. Do you know what he calls his when he was massive? This is a genuine quote from Rob Williams Glory is. Even Elton John was jealous. No, even Elton John was jealous of me in my imperial phase Imperial phase, he hadn't got an empire. What was he talking about?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure that's true either. I don't think Elton John was ever jealous. Elton might have been. Maybe 2006, Elton either. I don't think Elton John was ever jealous. Elton might have been.
Speaker 1:Maybe 2006 Elton's, I don't know. I don't know what were they doing then.
Speaker 2:Are you ready for love?
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably will have been. Yes, you are. Oh, yes, you are, but yeah, so neither of them are as big as they were. Take that, they're still big, but they're not as big as they were when they came back, or in the prime Robbie. I think Robbie at one point was a genuine contender for a Glastonbury headliner. I've seen a lot of people say he'd be brilliant, which I do think he would be good.
Speaker 1:He's never done it. He's done the. He's just done an afternoon slot ages ago in the 90s yeah, he could definitely be that sort of the legend slot.
Speaker 2:If he got his set list right, he could absolutely nail it.
Speaker 1:I mean, like I say at one point, though he could have ruled the world, no, he could have headlined Glastonbury. I don't think he'd do it now. I don't think Tate that could do it now neither. So they're both past the peak, but absolute legends of the game, and when you look at it like this, maybe we should have more sympathy for Hannah and Caroline about them splitting up.
Speaker 2:Why? What do you mean? What's the context? Hannah who started this entire thing. Yeah, who's devastated when they split up? Devastated? And Caroline, who didn't go to work.
Speaker 1:Maybe they foresaw what we you know. They might have known that there were more in them than we realised, because obviously they came back and they were fantastic again.
Speaker 2:Right. So we could have had those years of glory, but we couldn't have, could we? Because Robbie and Gary needed to go off and do their own things. I just don't think they could have carried on as they were. Seemingly their resentment was growing and growing.
Speaker 1:Who do you think's richer? I mean, I'm tempted to say Gary but no, I think probably robbie.
Speaker 2:But then I look I can imagine gary's sort of like the way to do it. You bank 70p in every pound.
Speaker 1:He's probably got like massive savings, whereas yeah, yeah fortune I've just bought a new pen, robbie, so I can't come out tonight. I'm not going out, um. So yeah, it is Robbie, though Robbie apparently is worth 300 million and Gary is worth 99 million according to Forbes, I've got 99 problems, but Robbie Williams ain't one.
Speaker 2:But yeah, genuinely.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed doing the research for that because he made me go back and listen to some songs that I've never heard or not listened to for ages. So thank you so much for that, Jack, and Hannah for crying and making that a huge memory.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I don't feel like we've completed the journey there. Go on, then. What happened then? Because Robbie rejoined him, didn't he?
Speaker 1:It's a happy ending, Right? Yeah, he rejoined him and then he left again. Not in it, but he left on good terms. Like I say, it's like a film, isn't it? It's like.
Speaker 2:Do you take that still exists as a band?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's three piece now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, three piece. Which one's gone now?
Speaker 1:Orange, that's what I was saying Exactly. I don't even know he's gone.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, didn't he go missing or something?
Speaker 1:Like no one has spoken to, but I seem to remember hearing something that nobody knew where he was for years yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Let me have a look. He retired in 2004.
Speaker 1:Let us know. By the way, if people are listening, I do know his name Jason Orange. It's been a joke all the way through from me. He might be called Orange. Actually, I don't know Orange. I think that's a better name for him I've got. Oh my god. He's been in one of the most successful bands of all time and I genuinely think Paul Daniels' Wikipedia page is probably three times as big as this, just to finish up now.
Speaker 2:obviously, Robbie, he's having a bit of a weird sort of Morrissey-esque revamp at the minute.
Speaker 1:He looks a bit odd, by the way, just on this as we're speaking and I've told you about this privately, but Morris is completely a tangent. Morris put all his Smith support for his Smith rights for his songs because he says Johnny Marr and the like only wish to cause him ill. He's taken them down today. He's decided he's keeping them. Now the Smiths rights.
Speaker 2:Alright, yeah, you tell me they have nothing, but ill will towards him in it yeah, he said nothing, but ill will towards me.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, robbie williams, it's in morrissey's autobiography actually, the robbie williams messaged morrissey and said why don't we do a duet? This is when he was in his imperial phase. Um, he said why don't we do a duet? It'll absolutely freak people out. Morrissey said something along the lines of like, I don't think that's going to happen, robbie.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have thought that's something that will be happening anytime soon.
Speaker 1:I can't see that. I don't think that'd be a good idea. Robbie Robert, I think I'd call him.
Speaker 2:Robert, wouldn't I, yeah, you would yeah definitely call him Robert, wouldn't I?
Speaker 1:Robbie Williams.
Speaker 2:Sorry what I was going to ask you. So Robbie Williams is sort of Because he turned up on a Super Bowl or a Saudi boxing event or something quite big. He turned up on that. I've watched recently, yeah, but he still.
Speaker 1:He headlined Isle of Wight Festival a couple of years ago. He's still a big personality yeah. What my point is. He won a World Cup.
Speaker 2:Remember he was at.
Speaker 1:Russia. That's what I might be thinking of.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so I can still picture Robbie clear as day. Gary Barlow I think he's aged quite well, he's just, you know, looks all right, normal chap. I can still picture Mark Owen, but only in his youth. I don't know what he looks like, I've got no idea what he looks like now. But can you picture like now? But can you picture and this sounds quite insulting, but the words there are like the I can picture Howard.
Speaker 1:I can definitely picture Howard. Which one's Howard. Howard's got dreadlocks. Well, he did have dreadlocks. I don't remember any of them having dreadlocks. He definitely had dreadlocks. Dreadlocks, Not like rude all that, but like yeah, he had dreadlocks, Definitely had dreadlocks.
Speaker 2:I can't picture any attack that with dreadlocks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 2:That's Howard, is it?
Speaker 1:Howard, Put Howard Donald's dreadlocks in and you'll see him with his beautiful dreadlocks.
Speaker 2:Hold on, let me have a look.
Speaker 1:What now? Or he?
Speaker 2:did then.
Speaker 1:He did then. I don't think he's got them now. No, he hasn't got them now Of course he's got bloody hell how many times.
Speaker 2:I keep thinking Howard the Duck. Sorry, yeah, I genuinely just typed in Howard Duck. What is it? Howard Donald, howard, donald yeah um, oh, yeah, yeah and then who's the? Other one, jason Orange.
Speaker 1:Jason Orange. Yeah, because I I wonder which one went missing.
Speaker 2:Maybe I've made up. Maybe none of them went missing. Maybe I would.
Speaker 1:I would. I would. Donald, after saying that, did think about suicide. He said he was too much of a pussy to do it. That's his words, not mine. There I did, but I think there were a lot of resentments.
Speaker 2:Oh, jason, orange, god yeah, bloody hell yeah yeah, yeah. There were a lot of resentments about that.
Speaker 1:I mean it might be the best looking out of the lot, actually, yeah probably.
Speaker 2:I would say so, yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Jason.
Speaker 2:Orange. Whatever happened to Jason Orange? Well, Jason Orange, now let me.
Speaker 1:He's retired. Yeah, he's completely retired.
Speaker 2:I know he's retired, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything. He might be one of these who I don't know, rose Oranges or something. Oh no, that's just his name.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that's his name, it'd be massive like good marketing. Jason Oranges, oranges, jason's Oranges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Jason. Yeah, that's even better, Jason's Oranges.
Speaker 2:Inside his life. He's very different now he's walked away. This is from a couple of years ago. Yeah, just chilling out, isn't it? Yeah, it's not really telling us much about him.
Speaker 1:Yes, he's just chilling man.
Speaker 2:He's just chilling. Gratitude goes to the band. I can't really find anything to go at. Yeah, I think he's just.
Speaker 1:I mean you didn't know about him in the band until about 30 seconds ago. No, they're really distinctive. Now, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, who are we? No one knows who we are, so I'm not having a go at him. Yeah, so on that, now, on that bombshell there is no bombshell. Yeah, we'll just finish there, shall we? Yeah, just finish there.
Speaker 1:Thank you again for that. Like I say, keep sending us requests. If you put them on the Apple or Spotify, if you request on there, you go to the top of the list. But that were a private message from Jack and I hope Anna's alright and I hope you've enjoyed that as well. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Liam, thank you, good night, and I can't think of a take that song that would never forget never forget how deep back.
Speaker 1:thank you for listening to who Remembers. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us at whorememberspod, at outlookcom. If you are a right-wing fascist, you can find us on Twitter at whorememberspod, or if you're a Wokenor, you can find us on Blue Sky at whorememberspod. Once again, thank you for listening and we'll see you next time for more remembering.