WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
A nostalgia trip for anyone in the UK who grew up on dial-up Internet, Findus Crispy Pancakes, and playground rumours that couldn’t be fact-checked online. We’re not historians — we don’t do dates, and we barely do facts — but science says reminiscing gives your brain a dopamine hit, so think of us as your weekly dose of hazy memories, childhood flashbacks, and confidently misremembered events.
Expect frequent arguments about who remembers things properly as we rummage through the UK’s collective memory box.
WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
Who Remembers........MTV? (with Adam Follett)
Remember waiting for a title card to tell you what song just changed your life? We dive into the strange magic of MTV: the Moonman years, the rock-first identity, the moment narrative videos made pop feel cinematic, and how a channel that never owned its content still owned youth culture for decades. With musician and long-time friend of the show Adam Follett, we revisit first encounters on Sky, gym TVs and pub screens; the electricity of Unplugged; and late-night marathons where Beavis and Butthead roasted your future favourite band.
If this episode brought back your favourite MTV memory—or made you rethink what music discovery can be—follow the show, leave a review, and share this with a friend who used to tape videos off the TV. What video did you wait hours to see?
Check out Adams music here https://linktr.ee/spookmuziek
and here is a link to the Richard Blackwood video mentioned (not the coffee up his ass one) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrRVQIn1Ybs
Hello and welcome to Who Members, the UK Not Scholarship Podcast. And in today's episode, we are asking Who Members and TV.
SPEAKER_00:So this week we are joined for the MTV episode by Drumfield's Finest, ex-Talbot Arms resident, and Spook Music currently is the project I believe you're working on away from day to day. So Mr. Adam Follett, yeah, friend of the show for quite a long time, friend of the previous podcast. So yeah, very, very good to see you, mate.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you for having me. I'm honoured and humbled.
SPEAKER_02:Humbled. Never had that before on this podcast. So we were you, I think you mentioned before MTV finished that you wanted to cover. I think I don't know if it was just music channels, obviously, when we were sort of corresponding with each other. But obviously, MTV finished on, I believe, the New Year's Eve this last year. So it's uh it's it's actually come round at quite a good time. See you later, see you next week.
SPEAKER_03:I thought we could just discuss that one episode on New Year's Eve 23.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just do that one episode. But then I just think it's obvious because we were gonna do it anyway, and then obviously the news came through I don't know, about two weeks after that they were MTV was stopping completely, which you know it's mad to me because it was such a thing growing up. Why did you want to cover this in particular?
SPEAKER_03:Just the memories of of watching it, really, like as as you probably both know, music is my thing, um just the excitement of getting Sky back in mid-90s, maybe early 90s, and it was two things for me. It was either MTV or WWF. Yeah, and then I got Sky again, yeah, yeah. Then got Sky again early 2000s, and it was either MTV, MTV2 back then, uh or WWE by then.
SPEAKER_00:So was it acquaintance then whether you became a musician or a wrestler?
SPEAKER_03:I I stood in the mirror, oiled up, and I was like, I think I'll play guitar. We've all done it, we've all done it. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, so I mean, what's your release memorable game as well?
SPEAKER_00:Like MTV, like I was trying to think when the first time I would have seen MTV because as we've sort of discussed previously, didn't have Sky, didn't have cable, was a was a pauper, really.
SPEAKER_04:So I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I my first sort of strong memories of watching a lot of MTV rather than just glimpsing at it, would be in the Drumfield Sports Centre gym. They used to play it a lot downstairs in the gym, yeah. And I remember even though now it sounds incredibly sort of pervert, but it didn't seem at the time. I used to stop what I was doing to go and watch uh it was a Mariah Carey song, but I can't remember which one it was. But it was just sort of taken as like acceptable that I could just stop training and just go and sit on the bench and just watch the screen when that song was on.
SPEAKER_02:Sadly no longer with us, as I said, by the way. We keep getting picked up on it. Um sorry it's got a tangent, but people I every episode I'm dropping in people who aren't actually dead and saying sadly no longer with us. Um but getting every episode now, people going, you do know they're not actually dead, don't you? So I'd just like to say that I do know that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she she is still with us. But yeah, that that was sort of keep your ears. And also remember from I don't know if this was when when your family was in the Talbot Arms, Adam, but they definitely had Sky in there because they had the the football. So did you have that as sort of part of living in the pub or because for anyone who obviously doesn't know, when I when we went to school together, you were the year below me, you lived in the sort of quite quite big sort of pub near to me, and and yeah, that that's where I first used to go to watch football, really. I think that that was only shown on Sky.
SPEAKER_03:Well, we had yeah, we had Sky, but it back then it was sort of I don't whether we were swindling it, I don't know, but it wasn't a like a business sky like you have now, like a account because it costs thousands, I think, a month, doesn't it? Yeah, so it was upstairs as well, and that's where you would control it. So I think one evening they were watching the Ernell Ryder Cup, Davis Cup or wherever it is, and I just toddled along and put wrestling on, and then we I just heard someone running upstairs like turn it back off. So obviously that wasn't too clever.
SPEAKER_02:At least you knew what to do though, because in every in every single pub, no one can work the sky TV thing. It's like it's a long-running thing. Like, it's like, mate, can you put Sky Sports 2 on? And then someone will come and say, like, oh yeah, yeah, no worries. And they've got the national channel four, mate. That's channel five. Hang on. There's about five people trying to work this one from our two. What is it? 401. Yeah, oh at least you knew how to turn it over. So yeah, you're a step better, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, so I guess we got it earlier than not most, but you know, we got it quite early on um Sky because of that.
SPEAKER_00:But do you remember it kind of in its original format then? As a as a was it be a single channel when you started watching, or was it a two? Was it MTV one and two? Or what yeah, yeah, just the one, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Um it was sort of the time, so I was into my rock and my metal at the time. Not a load of you know, Metallica and that sort of stuff, and that that's sort of what they were playing. It was a rock channel, wasn't it, when it started? Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was ten years later by the time I was watching it.
SPEAKER_00:My my very limited research tells me that yeah, initially it was set up to be that, and that actually there was uh and I don't want to steal any thunder here, so but some controversy around Michael Jackson being shown and and kind of where that went. Maybe that's a little bit further down the journey, so I won't jump ahead. But yeah, I I that surprised me a little bit. I didn't know it was set up as a kind of fairly heavy rock channel, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean this is before I started watching it, but uh just reading up on it in the past and then refreshing my memory. It's mad how it's like set up in America and American bands didn't really make music videos then, it was UK bands because of Top of the Pops. So they were basically asking for these free videos, and they were bands like I think it's Human League got an American number one just because they've been on MTV, they're not really got radio play or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00:So Duran Jiran and I assume you both know this. I think this is one of those most obvious pub questions in the world, but but I assume you guys and everybody else listening knows the first music video shown on there.
SPEAKER_02:And the last, actually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, actually, yeah, last as well.
SPEAKER_02:Video killed the radio star by Boggle.
SPEAKER_03:I know that so much that the pub quiz question could be what question am I about to ask about MVV?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's this.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Do you know what the second one was?
SPEAKER_00:What second most asked question?
SPEAKER_02:No, no, sorry, no, the second video played. Um, because I've never heard of it before, and I've not even written it down. I don't know why I've asked. So if you're at home, you know you're not gonna get the answer to that, but it's it I think it's just one of those American songs. But obviously, the first thing that ever happened on it is the uh and it even though moving on, we're moving on to the question number two. Uh the answer don't know, move on. Um but yeah, obviously, I mean I sort of remember this, even though I didn't have it because it was such an iconic thing. But the um the man on the moon, you know, putting the MT MTV flag into the moon. Yeah, that's such an iconic imagery that.
SPEAKER_03:It is, and the uh I want my MTV stuff, which was the sort of campaign because it used to be um they had it in like rural parts of America, like cable channels, because they couldn't get it on the big national cable channel. And then they were getting people in like middle of New York like David Bowie in the middle of New York going, I want my MTV and stuff like that. You know, not going too deep into it, of course, but MTV was always a curator, not a creator. Yeah, and for those who are listening, I'm doing presentious handling for that. Um but it also it meant it was great because it didn't cost them anything to like run the channel, and as we'll probably get on to later, obviously it's it was their damn thing.
SPEAKER_00:But you say it's a curator and not a creator, which is which is absolutely spot on, but it also kind of shaped people's musical taste because it it was so accessible all of a sudden you couldn't go and find things you wanted to. Yeah, you had to go and buy a single if you wanted to listen to it, and all of a sudden, yeah, yes, it'd be on a cycle, but you could sit and watch this channel and wait for songs that you you thought, oh god, that was brilliant. And the next time it'd come on, whether you're with your mates or in the gym or wherever you were, oh guys, guys, come and check this one out. It's the first time I sort of I was aware where it made music really sociable. You you could say to people, Did you see that one? You've you've got to wait for this video.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I was because being into my rock, I guess it had started going more pop by the early 90s. So you'd have to stay up for I don't know if you remember Headbanger's Ball, which was on at like half eleven at night or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um so a lot of the songs I was getting into at the time were through Beavers and Foothead, essentially. So it'd be like them talking all over it, which I would love it in, and it was hilarious, but like at times I'm like just I'd like to I'd like a recording without. What is that?
SPEAKER_02:What is that in the background that you're talking of? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That thing you're taking the piss out of, absolutely quite like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But it's interesting that because obviously in the early days it was just wall-to-wall music videos. Um, and and as you talk about Michael Jackson by the way, Liam, um it were he wasn't actually the first artist to be played, it's like a bit of a common misconception, isn't it? That Michael Jackson was the first black artist to be played. Um it's actually gonna be a good one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's a bit of a cornerstone, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there was a cornerstone, a musical you know, past the Dutcher, which is famous for obviously being the number one when me and Lynn were born. So because obviously we share it, well, he'd born day after me. And you hate that, don't you, Lynn? Because you always thought it were I the tiger, and I had to uh prove you wrong and say I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00:I think Eye the Tiger is the following week. Yeah, I think I wish you'd hung around a little bit longer, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I thought you meant then Survivor, Eye of the Tiger was the first black artist to be played along. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. No, you've just your research is all wrong.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, it was musical use, but then obviously the Billy Jean thing was absolutely huge, as you say. Um because then it did become it went away from just rock and did obviously become into more black music and then eventually dance music, hip-hop, and hip-hop were massive in the early days of it.
SPEAKER_00:But I think the Billy Jean one as well, though.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry, Adam, go on. No, I was gonna say there's that famous Bowie interview, isn't there, where he's actually a bit on it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, I I think the the Billy Jean one as well, uh I think it led to the the thriller thing. But I think is there is there a slight narrative to Billy Jean? Is it quite a drawn out I don't think it's just a music video, is there a little bit more to it? And that that as well, kind of they weren't sure how to go with that. Um I again the research we do is is is vague at best, but I seem to think it's something like a seven-minute music video that starts with sort of him walking into the club and ends with him flicking a coin into the jukebox before the actual song kicks in. I th I think there's a narrative to the video rather than it just being the song.
SPEAKER_02:It was always like that, obviously, Michael Jackson videos, and that's actually interesting because obviously in the early days, you look at the the the early videos like the early 80s, even like the Buggle song that were the first one on, and uh bands started or artists started designing videos for purely just for MTV. Because the thing of a VJ, like if it still sounds a bit weird now, in a way, a VJ. But uh I watched the first ever episode that we're ready in America. Um we're only like the first half an hour, and they're making this big thing, like, Well, you're gonna hear from our VJs, like as if it were like this weird, like new sort of sort of thing. But it did become that the fact that I mean it I remember like being younger and sort of all the uh serious music magazines or newspapers or whatever getting really angry that he's only got to number one because of the video, and it it became almost like a bad thing if because the video had sell the song rather than vice versa.
SPEAKER_03:A lot, I don't know if that first video's like that, but there's a lot of videos like it's just really shoddy, like they say, up next Bill Collins, and then it'd just be Spandabelli or whatever, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely different on the thing. But it wasn't obviously it moving. Do you remember?
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, just on that, do you remember the sledgehammer video? I remember everybody talking about the video and not the song.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Peter Gabriel, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that was a good song as well, fortunately.
SPEAKER_00:But there also, but the video kind of became it certainly in my sort of circle of people I talked to, the video became more talked about than the actual song.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as you were saying, Adam, is that I think you might have been one of the first people because I think it was only in the early 90s that Britain really started, you know. Obviously, a lot of us got cable around this time rather than Sky TV. A few people had satellite dishes on the wall and stuff, obviously. But I do think that that what we we were sort of there at the very start of when it launched in in the UK. I mean, it I think it started. I'm just having a quick look now. It started in the uh UK, yeah, uh in 1987, but it was only in the early 1990s that it actually became widespread and family home. So we were sort of gone through the entire the entirety of MTV.
SPEAKER_03:Pretty much, yeah. Like I say, there was gaps in there, whether that's gaps in my memory or gaps in us having Skyx when we moved out of the pub. That's my s I my second era of MTV that I remember was like I say early 2000s. But yeah, those early days of like say Brievers and Butthead, Headbangers Ball. I did make other notes because that bit's a little more sketchy, but yeah, it's sort of like I remember they'd do like a Guns N' Roses special for three hours long or something like that, and it'd be repeated all through the day. And I just yeah, my a combination of MTV and I'm sure Liam will remember this, the uh Dromfield Library when they used to do CDs for like 70p a week. Yeah, that shaped my taste essentially for a long time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I remember, I mean, I've still got I I've also still got them somewhere, VHS tapes, and they're all MTV1, MTV2, and they're just recordings of MTV because uh a lot of the things that that's a lot of my music consumption mainly came from that or Radio One or whatever it was I'm watching, probably the uh I'll go on the evening show. Steve Womaka used to listen to when we're Mark and Lard or whatever. Um but yeah, I've got loads of these VHSs of all things, and obviously unplugged were a massive thing as well. I remember obviously the Nirvana Unplugged one, absolutely huge. I remember the Oasis one being hyped up to massive amounts, and then obviously Leon Gallagher didn't turn up on the day, and it became a bit of a letdown, and it like sort of summed up their time in America, but that was massive unplugged.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, just um it's such a it seems like so like if you think about it now, it seems like such an obvious idea, doesn't it? But it's quite groundbreaking to say, look, we're gonna we've got all this ability to do a full-blown thing, but actually we're gonna strip it all back. And people loved it, like say, you know, there's that one, there's Lauren Hill one, there's Eric Clapton one, that were huge.
SPEAKER_00:But I don't remember it being full of adverts, but assuming it must have had a lot of adverts on there to actually generate revenue. Was it was it really full of adverts? That's not something I really remember that well.
SPEAKER_03:Um I mean there were there were obviously less adverts back then on any channel, weren't they? Really? I don't remember it being hugely advert heavy, but I expect it probably was.
SPEAKER_00:But that must be surely kind of how it generated. How how did it be?
SPEAKER_02:That's what they relied on for yeah, it did. That's what it composed on.
SPEAKER_03:Which is why just low small overheads. Yeah, low.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, like which is why to a degree as well is the obviously as Adam talks about Beavers and Butter and stuff like that, it went away from. I mean, I've just got a start here that from 1987 to 1996, MTV uh debuted 39 non-music shows and 51 music-related shows, and they slowly moved away from becoming a music channel. Because obviously, as you say, I mean they had The Real World, which is the first ever reality TV show, which I've never watched if I'm completely honest, but I think everyone's heard of it. Celebrity Deathmatch, Beavis and Butter, as you said, Dari, and all these things sort of it changed it because I think it had to change, because I think it's it sounds really, really cool, sort of, oh yeah, music all day, but it were hard to keep those people all the time, and as you said with the adverts in between and stuff, you you know you it you it was a tough sell, really.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and again, because they didn't own the content. I just remember a time where probably those early 2000s, where I can't remember what channel it was on Sky, but you would just keep going through and there'd be like The Box and VH1 and Kerrang TV, and so they're all just showing the exact same stuff. So I guess that's partly why MTV thought. And you know, as much as back in the day we'd all slag it off for you know it's music TV, it's not playing music, but actually it helped them carry on for so many years.
SPEAKER_02:It did. I think there's a I I I always see on on comments on the old videos that'll be much of MTV, oh, this is when it was MTV, this is when it was MTV. But the viewing figure shell, but no one were really watching it that much until the reality.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, the other channels, you know. Yeah, like say MTV2 was my bag sort of early 2000s, and that was yeah, that's something the other channels starting up as well allowed you to sort of watch your your particular niche.
SPEAKER_00:So MTV probably tried to suit everybody and suit suited nobody. Whereas all of a sudden you could watch Kerrang if you wanted to watch those sort of rock rock videos, and yeah, all of a sudden it it was a little bit you could choose what you wanted to watch, and MTV probably suffered a little bit from that from trying to be jack of all trades, maybe.
SPEAKER_02:MTV won, certainly. And obviously, as as Adam said, you had all different channels coming on Kerrang and VH1 were obviously, you know, for like the celebrity deathmatch though, you know what you mentioned.
SPEAKER_00:That that was huge at the time, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_02:That were amazing that I don't know if it's still all that held up, but I absolutely adored that at the time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, same. Just bizarre idea, but yeah. Yeah, there must be the again the rights to like use the celebrities' likeness and all that, surely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, obviously Beavis and Butthead to to comment over videos. I don't know if any artists have been nappy with like sort of Beavis and Butthead just like.
SPEAKER_03:Heads up that Metallica video, we're gonna call you all women because you've got long hair and your music shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's kind of like uh the opposite to Jules Holland, isn't it? Instead of sort of playing piano along, we're just gonna slag it off as we play it.
SPEAKER_02:Bring that back, that'd be an amazing. I'd watch that channel, just putting videos on, looking dick.
SPEAKER_03:Like I mean, there's no one as well on Jules Holland, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, imagine that that if Jules Holland's kind of keep relevant, he's in background getting rods and stuff like that when everyone's playing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there was uh pimp my ride as well, which I mean I may well have told this story story before, but I I love this anecdote so much. I'm gonna have to force it in in this situation again. But so Joe Jody, my missus, uh dad, got a new car and he turned round at our house to show us. And uh I went outside to see him and he he was smirking, pointing at his car, and he went, pig my van. I said, You know what? He said, Pig my van. I said, I don't understand what you're saying. And then Jody came out and he said, All right, love, pig my van. She said, What? And I said, I'm pretty sure he's saying pig my van. And he went, Yeah, pig my van, it's what all kids say. Jody said, What are you on about? When you get a car and you soup it up and stuff, I said, Pimp my ride. He went, Yeah. I said, That's not what you're saying. He went, I know, yeah, it's not pig my van. Pig my van. I'd love to know what that meant. Yeah, pig my van. I wish they'd made that. They might still be going if they make pig my van.
SPEAKER_02:Well, by the not by the naughty, they'd moved away obviously MTV. I just pretty much smell it was sold the into reality TV shows like Cribs, and as you said, Jackass were massive.
unknown:Obviously.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was, yeah, it was, and then the channel four obviously got the right to it. But yeah, so even the music shows that the um they were showing them, but they were classic. Music shows they were the uh Ashley Simpson show as well. Didn't actually show any music. The Osborne's not a music show, is it? It's just uh it's just a comedy basically. But they did move away over tw only twenty-five percent of the music shows by the year 2000 were music based on MTV one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's mad really. But like say that, yeah, like MTV2. And I've got I mean, this is sort of six form era, so I was felt a bit brain dead anyway, but like I'd be watching there'd be so much new metal on, and I never liked I like sort of Deft Tones and maybe a bit of corn, but never really liked any of the new metal. But yeah, I'd watch that stained video stained video of the guy from stained and Fred Durst like doing these horrible like metal harmonies together over an acoustic guitar, and it's awful. But I've seen that video about 400 times because I'd just sit there and just watch MTV2, no matter what was on.
SPEAKER_02:And like you say, you do get into stuff, maybe you didn't get into that in particular, but because it's not the same as now where you can say I don't this is what were great about MTV. And I spoke to uh Debat actually on Saturday about this because we said we're gonna do this episode, and he said he loved just flicking through the channels and maybe coming across something that you think what's that? Do you know what I mean? As daft as it sounds, not not that long ago. It's how I got into um Lonely Island, and we're going through the channels, we're at my mate's house, so we're at Tom's house, our mate. And he that worry because oh, these are these are good, it's just in my power. I'm like, what the fuck's that? I'd never heard of him before at all. I absolutely loved him, but just there were all these like oddity sort of things that you and you get into. So I I used to watch a show called Uh Most Wanted, you know, with Ray Cokes, I think it were else today, and I'd watch the entire show, even if the guests uh that they might have Cheryl Crow on, I wasn't really interested in, and then some indie band that I've never heard of, and I'd watch it all, and I'd be I'd get into so much music via that because I'm giving something a chance that ordinarily I'd just say, not for me that up to you later.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I remember MTV and Most Wanted. I remember they did a competition for I think Def Leopard Tickets or something like that, and they were my favourite band. Me and my I don't know if you remember him, Liam, actually, Rob Glynn, a couple of years older. Oh no, I know the name, yeah. You might know the name, but we were um we entered this competition, and it's like, I know it will help us win. Let's draw the MTV logo at the top of the top of the letter. So we spent ages like shading this little MTV. We didn't win.
SPEAKER_02:Uh we all the logo, we should probably talk about the logo because that is one of the most iconic logos of all time, and I I still think it looks striking, it's so striking as a logo, the MTV one. You can put it to like VH1, for instance, and it's just like in a different league.
SPEAKER_03:That's it. It's funny because when I was doing my research, obviously seeing MTV written, not in the font, but written MTV in capitals, it just looks so wrong as like the same size. It's that iconic, like this small TV. Um, yeah, I'd just draw that like all the time. I'm sure I would have like drawn it in my school notepad and got it all.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I don't want to rush you by the way. If you've got anything to talk about else in the 90s, by the way, because I've I I've my notes are sort of going on to the noughties here.
SPEAKER_03:So if you have you got anything else in the 90s that you want to bring up, not really, like, you know, people obviously obsessed with at the time. Um, like I say, yeah, you Metallica, Alison Chains, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Chili's, all that sort of stuff. But 2000s are the ones that I remember the most. And yeah, watching those videos I didn't really like. Well, then I remember it must have been on them to be one, I guess. Stuff like Um Complicated by Revul Levine and uh the other one Vanessa Colton. Uh I can say 500 miles, thousand miles. Thousand miles.
SPEAKER_02:Playing tram line this year, actually, randomly, but yeah, that's very random, isn't it? Yeah, very random.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh Nathan Brilliant Torn, all these sort of stuff like that. I remember watching them a lot, so I must have been watching a bit of MC TV one, but but this was an era, wasn't it, though, before algorithms where you weren't sort of forced down your own little sort of rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_00:You you just have to watch what was on, and you would come across things that might not be your thing, but you'd think, oh wow, I love that. And I was a bit like that with a lot of the sort of heavy rock stuff that didn't necessarily think it was for me, but I'd I'd stumble upon a couple of songs of videos and think, oh wow, it's brilliant, actually. And yeah, these days you you're just forced to listen to more of the same sort of stuff that you like. Yeah, I mean, you could apply it to politics as well, but we we won't kind of go down that route. But yeah, but it does it does feel like yeah, these days everything's churning out the same stuff for you all the time. Whereas back then you you'd stumble across an absolute gem, a favourite that you would never really listen to before that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I you know, I still seek out as I know Andy does as well, the um new music as much as possible. Uh, but it's obviously not the same as it as it used to be. And I've I've got a couple of memories, specific, very vivid memories of like I was at a house party once, and we just put MTV2 on in the background, and everyone's getting drunk and chatting, and then I think an arcade fire power out came on. But the first time I'd ever never heard them at the time is like 2 a.m. I was just like transfixed to the TV, yeah, and yeah, from there became a huge fan of them. And then another time at home just messing about the computer, and I think you know Death from Above 1979, one of the best songs came on. Yeah, uh, um but I think I missed the uh Black Christmas month, it was, which I didn't know at the time, and I didn't know it was them. I just I think I missed the title card or whatever. So I spent the next like two hours trying to find out what that was.
SPEAKER_02:That that's we wouldn't have that anymore. You remember brought a memory actually? Do you know uh Let's Make Love from uh Unless Death from Above by CSS?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, CSS, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That came on what uh ex again the same, and I was like, this is good, what's this? And then you'd have to wait for like three or four hours on the line just to try and find what it works on. I had no idea. I can't no internet really. Do you know what I mean? No proper, I can't just put in all that's a little bit of a lyricate there, and it'd come on from AI.
SPEAKER_00:You'd be trying to describe it to somebody saying, I I think there was a vocal sort of came in, it's quite fast. Man, you you couldn't just shazam it and sort of say what's there, so all right, brilliant, I know that now. Yeah, you it seems crazy. I think I don't know. I think we we experienced a lot of this the the transition of things, the the sort of development of things, and then they've moved on to other stuff. I think we we lived through quite a good era, really. But yeah, I think kids would be stunned today to to realise you couldn't find out what that track was instantly, you had to wait and hope you would hear it again. We are making it like sorry, carry on, Adam.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, go on.
SPEAKER_03:No, I was just saying it's funny, like that story about the uh Death from Above song and like how it took me two hours two hours to find it. It's a happy sort of memory and like nostalgic. But then if you'd have said to me then, like, oh, I've got this thing where you can actually not only I can tell you what it is, but you can listen to it over and over and over for like uh 15 quid a month. Yeah, like obviously there I'd snap your hand off, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's a weird one, yeah. Because this is what I was saying, I mate travelling, obviously, travelling blade. He's um he was talking about like you can't imagine just going to the shop and getting a£10 CD. Like and that's it, and that's your CD for the month, if you know. And we talked about on obviously shops that you know can get anymore. It's brilliant, don't get me wrong, I'm doing a thing at the moment, I always change it all the time. I'm trying to get my top 100 albums. I love doing lists, as Liam will uh backed me up by saying that. And I'm trying to get it like this is it, this is the definitive one. I could just type in all these albums, it's it's it's absolutely ludicrous that I could just type in it's great, but it's rubbish, isn't it? It's it's yeah, because you don't focus on it.
SPEAKER_00:Good and bad.
SPEAKER_02:And I've no the reason I brought up the list is because I've noticed the best albums or my favourite albums are all the albums, not necessarily from the 90s, but from when I bought CDs. There's only three or four in there that were like, Oh yeah, that is up there actually. But I thought sort of stopped buying CDs or or whatever about 2012-13, or so I think tomorrow's to tomorrow's always bad boards of Canada actually, last album I've ever bought CD. And all the albums on this list are mine, and it's not just because of the you thing, it's because I invested in those albums.
SPEAKER_03:That's ain't it investing the time in them. Um and there was just less not necessarily less music, but less available to you, so you weren't you give the stuff more of a chance, even you know, if even if you didn't like it on the first listen. Whereas now I try and do that, especially for artists I that have credit in the bank, if you like. But yeah, for a new artist, if I don't like it immediately, I'm against the bigger.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think the modern version of me would never listen to the rolling people by the verve more than once, but I reckon I've heard no and on about the rolling. It drives me mad because I think it is so poor, but I used to have to listen through it to get to the next song, like yeah. But but in a way, I quite enjoyed it. I quite enjoyed the fact that I I I sort of have a tendency to replay songs alike or even little bits of song alike to death, but I couldn't do that then. I had to sit and listen to an album, and I I think I was probably happier for it, really.
SPEAKER_02:I also think with the MTV and all music channels is a song would come on out of nowhere by a band. You like I always remember uh Lustruck by Madness, and I used to love Madness, like I still like him, but I used to really like him as a kid. And they I was like, they've got a new sit the back, they've got new and I found out like via it might not have been MTV to be fair, it might have been VH1 or whatever. And you'd get these songs. I remember Bowie releasing a song, and I can't remember it was one of his nine uh when he did his nine inch nails phase from outside, I can't remember what it was. I was like Friend of Americans movie. That maybe that's the one, and or it might have been Little Wonder, one of those two, anyway. And I was like, This is David Bowie, what are you on about? Like, because obviously it was just a shot compared to it came on this like new thing. I'm like, and you couldn't like talk to it, like you couldn't like go on the internet and say, What the fuck's that all about? Like, why's he gone drum and bass? Or do you know what I mean? And stuff like that. It were incredible.
SPEAKER_03:But yeah, just that whole thing we're going away from MTV, but um just like uh and when Muse released their second second album, we were me and my mates were all obsessed with Muse, so we went out, went and played Snooker in Chessfield, came home, and then we like rang each other afterwards and like talked about riffs and stuff like that, which just seems insane. But the kids these days they do have their own version, it's very different, but they do have their own version of this sort of stuff, don't they?
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, gigs are still like full and gigs are probably more full than ever now, to be honest, despite the devices, because obviously there's more you've got less chance of being heard to a degree because there's that much out, but you I don't think it's a weird one, aren't you? You've got more chance and less chance because there's that much to go.
SPEAKER_03:If you hit a certain barrier or ceiling, if you like, and go beyond that, then you've you're opening up to global audiences much quicker.
SPEAKER_02:But people have got more money to spend, but they used to spend on CDs, they spend on gigs, you know, and that's obviously why gigs are so expensive as well.
SPEAKER_00:So spend it on the cost of living, mate.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it's a cost of living. But in 2008, they were by by 2008 on MTV, there was actually no genuine music shows or videos. Uh platforms like YouTube with the go-to for music videos.
SPEAKER_00:Did you guys kind of feel the demise of MTV or had you already left it well alone? Because I I I I'd I'd long gone before somebody said, Oh, MTV stopped, and I sort of thought, oh, that's a shame. But actually, I've not watched it in about 10 years.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't have it, I didn't have it, and I still like I didn't have it when it ended, to be honest. So I've just got a free view box, so I'd never had it. I never felt like I'd missed it. It would have been alright to have one in the background and stuff like that, but it's I I'm you know, I'm not sort of longing for the old days. You can just lob a uh a playlist on now, I suppose, or whatever on YouTube and stuff. It's not the same.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. No, it it it it probably outlived its welcome. Uh not welcome, but you know, it outlived what you would probably expect it to do so. Um you know, it evolved in all that time, but no, unless they like say they have even reality shows and stuff, they they're everywhere now, so they don't really have a USP particular anymore.
SPEAKER_00:I think unless they've gone into like a sort of streaming platform, which would have been hugely innovative at the time, it was always going to fade away because as soon as you could choose what you wanted when you wanted, that's redundant then to sit through things that you don't want to watch. And and yeah, what you lose is that spark of God, I would never have listened to that. I mean, Green Green Day to me just came as this kind of bolt from the blue that when I I thought, wow, this is brilliant. I I probably wouldn't have listened to that. And now I'm a Green Day fan, but I yeah, I I probably won't have that again. I won't have that experience unl unless a mate sends it, you still you still do get those bolts from the blue, but not in the same way, not in the same way as part of your daily routine. So yeah, I think I think it's very sad actually.
SPEAKER_02:Well, another thing is artists don't need MTV anymore, and I don't know, Taylor Swift can put a video on MTV and it might get 10 million people or whatever. Put it on YouTube or TikTok, she's getting 100 million and she's getting paid for it for putting it on there as well. So MTV just wasn't yeah, MTV's not needed anymore. The big artists didn't need to promote the the stuff anymore because they can just lobby on the YouTube channel, everyone's already subscribed to it, who's you know what I mean, and and it goes viral, and that's the the you know, that's always gonna try you know, have get more views at MTV and any music channel.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, it's a shame, but you know, I like say it's one of them again, you know, there's plenty of things like this where we're so nostalgic for them and we hear the shut, even like it might be a pub or something like oh, that pub's shutting, and then you realise you haven't been for 14 years.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like tower arms, for example. Yeah, but tower arms and also the butchers opposite, because I I used to kick myself forgetting. Yeah, you mentioned this before, yeah, yeah. Shop to Sainsbury's every time thought I should have gone to the buttons. Yeah, I've taken some personal responsibility for that butcher's closing, I think.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, we've all got things like that. Were there any notable presenters, by the way, on MTV that you liked?
SPEAKER_03:You maybe went on to be big and you like sort of discovered them there or yeah, I guess that that second era, if you like, you got um Zayn Lowe and Gonzo. I remember watching a lot of Gonzo, that was entertaining. That found him a bit annoying at the time. I think he's chilled a bit now, isn't he?
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, he were very yeah. I used to because I didn't have MTV at this time, and I used to go to my hands once a week, just like to visit her and stuff, and I would just watch that. I'd make sure I timed it to when Gonzo were on, so I could watch Zayn Lowe on that, yeah, for two hours or three hours or whatever it was, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um and then yeah, MTV selects Donor Air. Donor Air was a good one. So I was like, you know, a 16-year-old lad, so I was I was going to like Donner Air. Richard Blackwood was on as well.
SPEAKER_02:Richard Blackwood was on, yeah. Richard Blackwood, obviously more famous for what did he do? Put something up. What did he do? He he shut out so much shit or whatever he did. That sounded like the start of the story we didn't want to tell. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we haven't mentioned it. Carry on talking between you, and I'm gonna look this Richard Blackwood.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I've got a Richard Blackwood story. Well, it's not my own story, but um the uh obviously there's the famous have you seen the zest from a lemon thing with Richard Blackwood?
SPEAKER_00:No, I don't know, actually, no.
SPEAKER_03:I mean no, oh you have to find it. It's he's on um Sunday lunch or whatever they call him, these shows.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And they say, Oh, Richard, could you just give me the zest from a lemon? He's like, Yeah, sure. So he starts cutting it, just like slicing it. He's like, No, the zest. He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I'm just and then he picks up the he gives him a grater and he's like, looks at the crater and starts grating like the open end of the he's like, No, no, no, the zest. Yeah, it's like trying to pretend he knew what zest was, basically.
SPEAKER_02:There we go. This is on his Wikipedia page, by the way. It says he appeared in Channel 5 Celebrity Detox cam, which involved him being filmed pumping 18 litres of coffee solution through his anus. You are kidding me. Yeah, it's on the behind the count. Let's behind the counter behind the curtain. We've we've recorded that uh three times and forgot to press record. So because we we have to but should we just tell people that we don't actually pay for Zoom? I weren't gonna look into it.£14.99 for a month. I'm not paying for that, I'm not paying for that. Liam should get it through his work. I don't I don't even know what Liam does, but uh it seems like the sort of thing you should get for free.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we did on teams, didn't we?
SPEAKER_02:Back in the day, teams have done it, should change something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'd say back in the day when you were guests on my radio show, it was free for however long you want, I think.
SPEAKER_02:Skype the same, Skype the same, yeah. Well, I should do that. Who remembers you could call for free? Skype.
SPEAKER_00:How the tables are turned now? We yeah, we guest appeared on your radio show, and now you're broadcasting to at least 10 people on our podcast.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:Double the amount that listened to Sheffield Live, I think.
SPEAKER_02:That's that's do you know what genuinely? I I sometimes when I can't sleep, I'll put Sheffield Live on. Um, because there's always something a bit uh that is almost like a throwback to a degree of the MTV days where you had no idea what you were gonna get. Maybe not necessarily MTV, but of those old days of going through cable channels and thinking, I have no idea what's gonna be on here now.
SPEAKER_03:It's absolutely mad, yeah. Yeah, it's so weird, and they've got a because when you go in and record, which I know I did it from home, but when if you do go in there, it's called sustain, I think, and it you just turn it up and it's literally just a looping, like a really long loop, but the most random stuff going on. So if there's no actual show being recorded, it's great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and they've got just a lot of times that they're I remember once I don't think it was your show actually, because I thought it I wonder if this were you. It was loads of ambient music, and there were all these like pictures of like Sheffield in different places looking really beautiful and stuff. This is one of the best things I've ever seen at 2am. Do you know what I mean? You do genuinely get some good stuff on it. Just back on to the um people who did use to present as well, uh, and other people who got the uh the notable break. Davina McCall um used to present Most Wanted um as well. I thought it was a debut.
SPEAKER_03:Street Mate, that's the one, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But before Street Mate, and she was a very different presenter on it. It's a really legendary clip again when she's uh again I wear to talk about it, is when they I don't think they've released Definitely Maybe and they go on and do Live Forever, and she's the presenter and she's like going so you do albums um uh uh uh Def Definitely May Mate and this song's like obviously it went on to be like one of the best-selling albums of all time in England and stuff. It's really like I love watching things like that when they've no idea that the people they've got on are gonna be massive. Kelly Brooke, another one who started there, yeah. And and Russell Brand for um, I mean, you know, uh for his yeah, he used to do the dance floor chart. And obviously, I don't know if you any of you remember this, he was dismissed because several days after 9-11 he came into work dressed as Osama bin Laden, um, yeah, and brought his drug dealer with him into the studio. Not enough, not the worst thing he did, it turns out, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That was the one of the worst things.
SPEAKER_02:We've all we've all done it, haven't we? We've all we've all we've all done that. Yeah, we've all done that. But yeah, that like I say, there were some really good presenters, and it it is sad, but it isn't because if it was on now, I won't be watching it, and I don't think any of us would be watching it. I'd love to know the future.
SPEAKER_00:This is what I was interested in. Uh not that you two are sort of marketing executives, but is there any way and maybe maybe we shouldn't even be saying this out loud? We should have this offline because we could create our own sort of version of a modern MTV. Is there is there any way you could think this could work now if you wanted to start a modern day music channel? It would you go for upper-coming obscure artists? Would you go for retro songs? I I don't know, I was trying to think, like, is there any is there any possible gap now, or is it just that YouTube and TikTok and all the sort of modern variants have just wiped out the potential for a music channel on TV?
SPEAKER_03:I think it'd have to be like the selling point would have to be like the VJ or something, or or what's in between the music itself. Because again, you can get that music elsewhere whenever you want. Because that's the thing as well, like we're talking about you won't watch AMTV now. I imagine you wouldn't say any channel now, would you? You wouldn't say, Oh, I'm gonna watch E4 or something like that. You wouldn't no one really watches a channel. Yeah, you don't watch shows. Yeah, yeah. So you know what?
SPEAKER_02:It's absolutely incredible. We talk about Jules Holland realistically, how he's still doing it and still alive, yeah. But it's still alive, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Still doing the only watch 24 hour Jules Holland, like just as he slowly.
SPEAKER_02:That's where your gap is. That's where your gap is, the Jules Holland channel. 24 hours of pure Jules Holland, too.
SPEAKER_00:By the end of it, he thinks he's playing a piano and he's just sort of bashing away at a sort of load of vegetables or something, like thinking he's playing along to honky tonk piano.
SPEAKER_02:But it is realistically, I can't think of any other music. Obviously, when when we were growing up, we had the chart show, which I used to love, the chart show, all the graphics and stuff on that. Top of the pot was obviously uh Ozo and all these sort of things. Is there only really Jules Holland now, I think? Who yeah, the bigger one? But do you think that do you know like that?
SPEAKER_00:Sort of obscure markets. So so bands that haven't made it big. Do you think that because I know you guys are really into music more so than me? Would you would you even consider watching something about bands you wouldn't necessarily find on YouTube or you wouldn't be suggested through all the algorithms? Is there anything on smaller bands perhaps doing something? I don't I don't know. I don't I don't know if anyone would watch it.
SPEAKER_02:One of the things I absolutely love is when I I like to go to festivals, especially smaller ones, and I like discovering bands at the bottom of the you know the the post where I've never heard of, and that is something I really really do enjoy because I'd never listened to these people. But at the same time, every week on Spotify, I don't know if you're the same, Adam, is uh you get like a discoverer weekly or whatever, and it gives you things that it doesn't think you've seen before. I ignore it.
SPEAKER_00:So it's already it's already beaten that, it's already undone that then.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so sorry.
SPEAKER_03:I've had a lot of low comment go on, sorry. No, no, go on, Adam, carry on, sorry. Yeah, no, I was gonna say my version, I guess, of of new music, you know, it's like I say, uh like I'll repitch fork and stuff like that, although apparently from today they've started charging for more than a few of the reviews or whatever. But yeah, stuff like that. And it doesn't you don't get that early thing that you used to get of discovering bands and all that sort of thing. But then like I've not been I've not been to Tram Lines proper for many, many years since it's moving to Lisbon Art. And like just seeing stuff at um fringe, that's yeah, that's like the sort of excitement I get from the and then not only that, and you find a band that you like, it's like shit, they're from here as well. And I see them all the time, or pal up them or whatever. So that that I get that.
SPEAKER_00:Are you still doing the fringe tracker that you do that I think?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I bet that is such hard work. It is well, it is, but it's also I can do it over a long time, you know. It's not like yeah before all the times come out. But I get so annoyed at venues like I've got no right to, but I get so annoyed like record junkie, which is now shut, yeah. Season right, um, like they won't release the times for you know for ages, and it's just like that's why you had them shut down.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Yeah, I'm I'm not stacking for that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I want the shop to be no more.
SPEAKER_02:I want the shop to be no more. But if you've got anything else to add, Adam, or we can wrap it up there. Um really, really good that because it is sad, the MTV thing and the music channel thing. It did run its course though, didn't it? It did run its course. I don't think, like I say, I think it's a re an easy thing to say, oh, they lost it when they got all the reality TV shows in. I actually think that's that what kept them going, the Osborne's team Mom were massive, and uh Jersey Shaw, was it, or before Jordi Shaw and all yeah, and all that, that's what kept them going for as long as it did. And I just think times move on, times move on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean there is uh not something we talk about in detail, but VMAs, of course, we've not touched on. And they yeah, to be fair, that is something that I might even if I don't watch it, I'd watch clips of and you sort of forget it's MTV, sort of, but I guess that helped it carry on for a long time.
SPEAKER_02:Was the VMAs where the Justin Timblake thing happened with Janet Jackson and was that the VMAs? Super Bowl, sorry. I was thinking that's not started.
SPEAKER_00:It was Britney Spears and I think iconic mounting.
SPEAKER_02:It was the Kanye West Taylor Swift thing as well, weren't it? Um that were the VMAs, yeah. Sorry, I thought I would have a really clever sort of tie by. Oh, you know, that would that started YouTube basically. That's where YouTube got all its um, you know, notariety for notoriety from from uh showing that clip of the Janet Jackson thing, and it ended up killing MTV, but I've ruined it because it wasn't it with a Super Bowl. So yeah, it did kill the Super Bowl, did it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I would I wouldn't input anything, but you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. But thank you so much for that, Adam. Really do appreciate that. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Yeah, you're uh you're welcome anytime for any any topic. It's it's very very loose and free and easy. So you're more than welcome, mate, for anything you want to discuss. Is there anything that we can plug for you at the minute to the thousands of people listening that more like 10 or 12?
SPEAKER_03:Um well, firstly, as as a guest, I'm I am sad that you've already done the Cuban missile crisis, but that's fine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh yeah, you did ask for that, didn't you?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, for that, by the way.
SPEAKER_02:So you will we will we will we will uh get you back on if you want to sometime to do teletext or C Fax and all that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:I like the idea of you coming back for another crisis. I think you've got to find another crisis.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, find another crisis. Someone uh Neil Peter who listens who listens to us would have a go at the rest of his history podcast because they've put they're doing a Ram Revolution um four-parter, and I think they've put only what they've only put one parts one and four out or something. I said we'll cover it. Don't worry, no need restors. Yeah, we'll fill in the blanks. We'll do it in 20 minutes, yeah. No worries about it.
SPEAKER_03:Uh but no, nothing usually to um promote at the moment. I am uh spook music is my only sort of musical project at the moment, and I am I'm hoping to do a f because I it's basically just me with a microphone and a sampler and being silly on stage. Um but I'm hoping to do a full band gig.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that'd be excellent.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Exclusive.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we'll uh I'll I will be at Tram Lines and uh for my opinion.
SPEAKER_00:I'm going this time. I'm I'm there.
SPEAKER_02:You're not? I've got a ticket. I don't think that's true. I've got a full weekend ticket. When did you get this?
SPEAKER_00:Jody saw that the girls are going as well and her dad.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, we're gonna tell I was just about to say actually before you said that, I think the lineup's appalling this year. So there's a very good chance we will be coming to see you in the world. Universally slated, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, so uh you don't mind playing for the full weekend, Adam.
SPEAKER_00:We'll just come and watch you in a tent. Yeah, we'll just come and watch you'll. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I'll do a jewels hollow in 24 hours.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but then we will we'll definitely try and come and watch. We actually came to see you uh well actually come to see you, but the the Woodseach Music Festival in the Abbey, and it were absolutely rammed. So I couldn't yeah, we went to see you. It's a good I thought as Adam's playing and they were going to see you, and then it were just like I can't even move in here, like I can't do anything.
SPEAKER_00:So you know, we see them like I've I've seen you play about maybe 30 years ago, I think, as a as a band in Trumpfield, I suspect. I I can't remember. Did you play the town civic hall or something or the sports?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Civic Hall with a trio we were called, but not there's another band called the trio, it's not greatly.
SPEAKER_00:So and I and I was impressed, and I and I I have heard very good uh very good reviews of of yourself. So yeah, I'd I need to go and see something more recent. So yeah, I'll I'll make a commitment this year to go and watch something that that you do. So yeah, everybody check out check out Adam and Spook Music and yeah, we'll share a link to whatever you've got your site or your whatever is current for you, and we'll also try and find a link, I think, for the Richard Blackwood um doesn't know what lemon zest is. So I think that'll be worth showing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you very much, Adam. Thank you. Cheers, fellas.
SPEAKER_00:Cheers, thank you. Bye.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for listening to Who Remembers. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us at WhorremembersPod at outlook.com. If you are a right wing fascist, you can find us on Twitter at Who Remembers Pod. Or if you're a wokener, you can find us on Bluesguy at Who RemembersPod. Once again, thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time for more remembering.