90s Games Consoles: The Decade That Changed Gaming (with Noah Snyder)

Remember four-way GoldenEye on a tiny CRT, arguing over who was screen-peeking, and racing to unlock Oddjob bans before the next round? That shared electricity runs through this episode as we welcome Noah Snyder from The Red Half of Sheffield Podcast to revisit the decade that made gaming social, fast and unforgettable.

If this brings back the click of a cartridge or the whirr of a PS1 disc, you’re among friends. Hit play, share it with someone who still remembers the Konami code, and leave us a quick review so more nostalgic gamers can find the show.

Transcript

Meet Noah And The Show Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:42

So this is usually a UK nostalgia podcast, but we are delighted today to be joined by somebody from the other side of the of the ocean. Is that right? The other side of the ocean? Noah Schneider of the Red Half of Sheffield, a podcast that I think I've listened to every single episode of in the past five years. Thank you for coming on to Who Remembers Noah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

You're you're one of the dozens, uh the dozens of proud uh Red Half of Sheffield listeners out there. So thank you so much. And it's a it's a it's a pleasure to be on. I've of course been a fan of all of the work that uh both of you have done, living with Maidley and now whore members, Who Remembers. Um, and thank you so much for having me on.

First Consoles And Sonic Obsession

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure. So yeah, we're we're gonna do uh we're gonna take a look back here. It doesn't have to be 90s, but we're gonna sort of I think we're a bit older than you now. How how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

37.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Yeah, so we're we're the same generation. We're we're a little bit older. So hopefully that we know what you talk about. You're not gonna bamboozle us with all sorts of new consoles we've not heard of. No, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Well, I'll get answered straight away. Sorry, carry on.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I'm sorry, no, no, I I was gonna say that you know, it's funny. I I I do consider myself a massive fan of like video games from that 90s decade, but uh I'll be honest, with the exception of FIFA, a little bit of Fortnite, I have not picked up a lot of video games in the last like 10-ish years.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Oh, that's great news, because neither have I. Uh, I don't think Liam has neither, so we're all on the same page. Similar actually.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

FIFA and Fortnite. I think other than that, yeah, I kind of hung up my uh console boots in in the end of the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Well, we'll get on to it. But the last console I actually bought was the PlayStation. That was the last console that I actually went out and bought. Um, so what we'll sort obviously with the with the 90s, and we'll probably more more concentrate on the 90s if none of us have played in anything for the past 10 years. But what was the first console you remember getting, Noah?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So the very first console that I ever got, I received for Hanukkah one year, and it was uh the Sega Genesis.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So I I was gifted later uh a Nintendo entertainment system, like the original, original Nintendo. Um, but the first console that I actually received that that was my very own was the Sega Genesis. Um, I think I couldn't have been older than like maybe four or five. And I don't know if you've ever seen the reaction of those kids, like those American kids who get the Nintendo 64 and they're like, it's a Nintendo 64! Thank you, thank you, oh my god. That was I literally my exact reaction to receiving the Sega Genesis, like it was the one thing that I had wanted for the holiday period that year. Um, and upon receiving it, like I I can't remember really feeling that much joy as a child as I did when receiving that console because it was the it console, wasn't it? Like it was like the number one Christmas like slash holiday gift in like that that early 90s period. So so for coming. Well, I'm gonna ask you that.

Sega Vs Nintendo: Rivalry And Sports Games

SPEAKER_04 3:48

I think just let me say, uh, I think I'm right in saying we would call the Genesis the Mega Drive.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Yeah, so it's Mega Drive in in Britain and if we refer to it as Genesis or Mega Drive, we're talking the same console here. But yeah, that the only thing I would say now, I don't I don't know if this was the same for you. There was huge debate amongst the the Super Nintendo versus the the Genesis, the Mega Drive, as to are you a Sega Man, are you a Nintendo man? There was a little bit of rivalry, I think, and and it was kind of quite people were quite protective of their own. So were you always a Sega Man?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

I mean, you know, as as Biggie said, Super Nintendo Sega Genesis when I was dead broke, I couldn't picture this. Uh let me just say, so I I went over to Friends Homes to play the Super Nintendo, and I did enjoy the Super Nintendo, but I thought that the Sega Genesis had like a better variety of uh platformers, and I was a big plat, like what they call platformers. Now we didn't call them platformers back in the day. Um, but you know, I mean, um uh Super Nintendo, you know, you had your Mario, but I was a Sonic guy. I was obsessed with Sonic Sonic the Hedgehog. Um, I had every single Sonic game. Um, and I also think that the sports games were better for the like at least more playable on the Sega Genesis than the Super Nintendo.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Well you had EA, obviously, obviously the hockey and obviously FIFA obviously is one of them. And I can only really think of the Nintendo. I mean it did have ISS, didn't it? Um, a little bit lighter, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

So Nintendo always had its own, like kind of shitty proprietary games, also um, that were not really playable, but you know, the the ones that were from the companies that would go on and continue to make those sports games FIFA like for decades and decades and decades. I just remember all of them being on um the Sega Genesis at the time. And of course, now they have cross like you know, cross-platform that happened, but uh I in the early days they were more like sort of proprietary, you know what I mean? Like based on yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

And and sorry, just to go back to Sonic though, I think Sonic is one of the few games because my kids have sort of had to go at some retro games, it really stands up.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

I think the first one so fast, it's stupidly fast, and I played it on an emulator.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

You pick it up and play it at any age, you don't even really need to know what's going on, you just keep moving right and you try and get to the end. And it it's so it's so simple but so effective. And yeah, so I was a Super Nintendo man.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Ah, interesting. I wouldn't ask you if we were all Mega Drive. I'm definitely a Mega Drive for the for the record, but I've never had a Nintendo.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

I will say Sonic was the game that I used to think, oh god, I want to go to one of my mace and play Sonic. That that was just a real standout game, but then yeah, as as you touch on the sports, so NBA Jam, uh FIFA, uh were you insert because I don't think you ever really made it in the UK, but John John Madden, was that a Mega Drive Genesis game?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, so Madden I think was for both, but I had like Madden 94 or Madden 95 on the Mega Drive Genesis. Um and I wasn't even a big American football fan at the time. Um I didn't start watching like the Super Bowl or anything until like 1997, but that was kind of how I learned like what the rules of the game were. But um, I actually had I had FIFA also. Um because I was, I mean, you know, when the World Cup came to the United States in in 94, I mean it started like what we'd call soccer, football fever, um in the United States. And I think that like that was when I asked my parents to go out and buy me that like the first FIFA game that I had, FIFA 94, 95.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

I can't remember which one it was, but yeah, David Platt on the front David Platt on the front of Fe of the FIFA in America. It wasn't the uh it was the first ever FIFA cover star in uh in Britain at least, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

I don't I don't recall to be honest with you. I I can kind of picture the the front of the game, but I I can't remember what it was, to be honest with you.

Sonic 2, Knuckles And Hard 90s Platformers

SPEAKER_04 7:56

It's interesting was 94 the one where they had the indoors football. Was that the introduction of no 94 the first ever one?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

94 was the first ever FIFA, so it might have been yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, am I right in saying it? You'll know obviously more than I was no one, but I've always got I always thought that Sega was much more stronger in the UK, whereas Nintendo was bigger in the US. That's how I've always sort of read about it and seen about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Did you would you back that up like just by your you know, anecdote like or I'd say the console wars were about dead even in the early 90s, at least in the United States from my perspective. Um, I had like you know, a fair amount of friends who had both, first and foremost, but also for the friends that had only one system, I'd say it was about 50-50 split right down the middle. Yeah, and some I mean, the the only one that was like really lacking in the United States was were the Atari systems. Like, I mean, I didn't know anybody who had a Jaguar or you know, that um the 2600 or what or whatever it was actually anybody who had who had that. But as far as Nintendo it was Nintendo versus Sega, um it was about split 50-50 right down the middle.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

But it's interesting, it's it's interesting to hear that like Sega was more popular in in the UK. I I I wouldn't, I mean they're they're both Japanese systems, so you couldn't I mean I mean I'm I'm not an expert in this, Liam.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

I do I do think I don't know if you back me up with this. I do think Sega was bigger. It's certainly right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

More more of my friends had the the Sega than the Nintendo. I I think yeah, I was a bit of an outlier. I don't actually know why I went Nintendo, I'm not sure, but yeah, I I certainly felt like much much more of my friendship group had the Mega Drive or the the Genesis. So yeah, I don't I don't know. I I wouldn't say it was completely one-sided though. I do think there was a there was a split over here as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Oh yeah, it wasn't Nintendo were really popular. What games would you say then from the Genesis now? What were the the big two or three games for you uh from that console?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, so I mean Sonic, it wasn't actually Sonic 1, it was Sonic 2 that was the that was the biggest game. Sonic and Tails that one, isn't it? Sonic Yeah, Sonic and Tails. And then and then Sonic and Knuckles. And like that game was so interesting because it remember it had that console stacking function that it had on where you could stack like on you could insert into like the Sonic and Knuckles cartridge Sonic 2 and then play as Knuckles in Sonic 2, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was like a feature that had never been done before. Like, I mean, it was so clever that like they were you were it was uh an original, it was like the original version of DLC, what the kids would call DLC now, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

And did that bring in the the function because I think Knuckles could climb walls, could I? Did it bring that into Sonic 2 then?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He could and he could also like glide as well, like um fly, glide, whatever you want. Yeah, yeah, whatever you want to say. And that like that was that was really, really cool as well. So Sonic and Knuckles was another big one. Um, a game I don't know if either of you have ever heard, but it was really popular amongst me and my friends was Echo the Dolphin.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't think I never had it, to be honest, but it's quite an unusual game for a dolphin to be the star of a game, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Yeah, well, it's it's quite iconic actually how how hot. I've watched a video on this really recently about how many people gave up because it was so difficult. I mean, the the soundtrack, the music was absolutely brilliant of the dolphin.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Bangers for sure.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

It really sort of relied on you ran out of breath really quickly, and you really kind of had to know what you were doing. You couldn't flag your way through Echo. I mean, me and my mate at his house got quite far through it. I don't think we completed it, and this was back in an era when you did try and complete games, you didn't just jump onto the next one. But yeah, I don't think we ever got to the end of Echo.

GoldenEye And The Birth Of Multiplayer FPS

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Did you complete it now? Uh absolutely not. I I mean a lot of these games, like I would just continue to play the first like through the third or fourth level and just never get beyond that. Um, just because the mastery level was so difficult. Another another game that was kind of similar, and this was like made for kids, was the Lion King companion video game. I don't know if uh either of you ever played it or that game was impossible. Like I would get like I would have to enter cheat codes just to get to the the end, and um, and even then, like facing Scar and uh like on Pride Rock at like the last uh like the last level was just impossible. And I I never beat that one.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

I think I completed that, but uh what I loved about that game is you started as Simber as a cub and you you sort of grew through the game, didn't you? And you you got new skills and you could roar. And yeah, I thought that was an absolutely fantastic game, actually, the Lion King.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah, I mean it it's and it's funny because now the the games that accompany movies I think are really poor, like by and large. Um, but back in the 90s, the companion video, like because Aladdin was really good as well. Um yeah, all of the these like Disney companion games to the movies were just like really, really good platformers. I mean, surprisingly good platformers.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Did you did you get America um Cool Spot?

SPEAKER_04 13:12

And the only reason I say that is because my mate was really into Cool Spot and Earthworm Gym, but I don't know if they were kind of made it up to the game.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Earthworm Gym. Yeah, Earthworm Gym was a big game. Coolspot, I I mean I've heard of, but I don't think I remember ever actually playing. Um but yeah, Earthworm Gym uh was was pretty popular. Um Kid Down the Street from me when I were about six or seven, um uh he had that game, and so we we played that pretty often. Uh the other game, so we haven't even gotten into RPGs yet. Um, and I don't know if either of you ever played Fantasy Star, which I think was the like that was the number one uh RPG for the Sega console.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

Oh no, I'm not I've not even heard of it personally, I know, but yeah, I'm not an expert on those, but I think what you've touched on there now, and actually you've you've sort of triggered a memory there. I think that's the reason I went Super Nintendo is because I loved Zelda on the Game Boy and I wanted the Zelda on the Super Nintendo. So I actually think that possibly is what made my decision for me. That I thought the Zelda games were absolutely phenomenal, and uh correct me if I'm wrong, don't think they were uh ever on them, this Sega platform, were they?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, that that was a uh a first party game uh for Nintendo, so obviously, you know, they they Nintendo's Nintendo Studios had their hand in creating that. Um, and yeah, I mean I love like when I got my NES like Nintendo Entertainment System, um, it came with the golden cartridge for the original Legend of Zelda, and I played the shit out of that game. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yeah, I never had, yeah. I actually didn't have the I've never had a Nintendo, like I say I owned a but my friends, we used to go around to these hours, obsessed with Goldeneye. Absolutely obsessed with Goldeneye.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Oh, that's uh N64 though, that's sort of next. Oh, with that N64, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yeah, sorry, we've gone a bit too far into the thing, and I think Final Fantasy as well wasn't uh was uh a Nintendo uh based game rather than a than a Mega Drive one or a Gen Space.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

So one through six were all uh were all on the Nintendo, and then I think seven was the very first one that's the one I like that was exclusively for PlayStation, um, which is interesting, you know, like be that they jumped from uh from Nintendo to PlayStation. But I I also loved um the Final Fantasy games as well. And I think I bought a PlayStation specifically so I could play Final Fantasy VII because I didn't get a PlayStation until much later. I mean we're we're getting ahead of ourselves here, um, but I didn't get a PlayStation until about like 1999 or 2000, and I bought it almost exclusively, uh like a resale PlayStation exclusively to play Final Fantasy VII.

Why N64 Won Local Multiplayer

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Well, it's interesting with these consoles even now. The before this, that I don't really remember you if you had a Commodore 64 or an Am oh go on uh Spectrum, uh yeah, or whatever, you you could get different versions of the same game. They might not be might be better on one system. This was the first time that I sort of remember being exclusive. So you could obviously couldn't get Sonic on Nintendo and you couldn't get Mario on on Genesis or anything like that. And that was I thought that's a really interesting way of marketing it. That the games became the selling point, which they should have been all along to a degree. But it did become which one do I prefer? Like which one, you know, if you can only afford one console, you would you were choosing them purely because of the games. What I've got the best games or the best mascots. I was always a Sonic Man as that sort of age. I would it was just faster than Mario, he looked cooler than Mario, they were you know swimming at that age, but obviously it did become like Liam touched on about a bit of a rivalry between the the the I remember a girl at school, it was like almost a thing where people walk past her and say, Sega, and she said Nintendo, it became like a bit of like a banter thing. Did you ever sort of become that sort of cool almost like a football team supported in one way or the other now? Or were you more I've just less enjoying both, man?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, I I more the latter than than the former. I mean, you know, with my with not having a Super Nintendo, um, I was a Sega loyalist in some way, but it you know, if somebody had had a had a um Super Nintendo, like, hey, that was great. I I I just enjoyed playing video games. I was just more than happy to to be able to sit down with friends and play games. And um, I think what what's interesting is that like a lot of the earlier systems were more geared towards cooperation in multiplayer. I mean, there were like look, the fighting games were obviously confrontational, but like you didn't get first-person shooters or anything like that until and we because you alluded to Goldeneye, and I want to talk about Goldeneye because that game is so like it pretty much established uh PvP um like first-person shooting games, and I I mean that's the reason why like uh Call of Duty and um you know, all of these shooters, uh Counter-Strike like became so popular, I think, was because that that game was just like so ahead of its time, you know, with that multiplayer mode.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

It was, and I think they could almost have been two separate games is the genius of it. The the one player kind of mission game was was absolutely phenomenal. The graphics at the time were brilliant, but yeah, the multiplayer, I mean, we spent so many hours on that with my brother and my cousin and my mates, and it it was just brilliant. And the fact that you could actually have the four-person split on one screen, thought that was great. Obviously, a little bit awkward, really. Not like now you kind of think, How did we see that on a 14-inch TV? But yeah, it was brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

I know, I was just gonna say, like, uh, like your head pressed like super close to the screen to try to see where you were on the map, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

But would you say that's the best sort of game to play? Because obviously we want to touch as well how this was sort of the first well, certainly the first era in our lifetimes where you would go around to friends' house to play these games that you you sort of didn't you obviously, like I said, you you know you either normally had a Mega Drive or a Nintendo early doors, and you'd go around to play the other one. What is the what would you would you say was the best game to play? GoldenEye for the you know, for uh if you're having a mate's night, you know, you can't do it. I would put a case in there for for Mario Kart as well. Mario Kart's a great show. So Nintendo is what we're sort of touching on there, is that that might be the best for um multiplayer games rather than a Sega.

Sega’s Missteps And The Dreamcast Cult

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah, I mean, like thinking about Sega, you know, if you wanted to play multiplayer on Sonic, you could have someone play as Tails, but like Sonic was the one who moved the screen, like who you know, moved like scrolled across the screen. Tails couldn't do that. So if you were it was like if you had a little brother or sister, you know, you were always giving them that second control. Here, you play you play as Tails, and I'm gonna play as Sonic. Um, but I th I think that that's like really what kind of shot Nintendo ahead of Sega in a lot of respects. Sega, unfortunately, um, was always second place uh after the Genesis. They came out with their consoles after Nintendo. So once the 64 came out, well, I I should say, I should say, Sega came out with Sega CD, and it was a massive flop. And they were like, okay, well, we don't want to fuck up our next gen console, right? I can curse on this show, right? Is that all about it? Oh, absolutely. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

We were talking about Jimmy Sabo last episode, yeah.

unknown 20:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Uh so they they said, you know, essentially, we don't want to fuck up our next consoles. So um they spent way too much time developing the Dreamcast, which and we'll talk about it, but let's be fair, that was a great system. I love that system so much. But Nintendo saw the the failures of Sega CD, and you know, they they um they came out, I think it I actually think Sega C D came out right before the 64. Um, but Nintendo decided to go with another cartridge system in the 64. Um, and Sega was just never able to recover from the blow that was the 64, and also having PlayStation come into the market in 1996, I think also was a massive blow to Sega, and they just were never able to recover uh after that point. And the other thing with um the 64 was it was the first console that had four players, like where you could have four players, and that I mean that opened up to things like Mario Kart, which you guys were alluding to before, Mario Party, Super Smash Bros. We haven't even gotten into um Super Smash Bros. and all the sports games you could play four. players in a sports game like a like a football game or or a basketball game and I just think that that took Nintendo to the next level.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

I think I'm right saying there were actually four control ports on the console, weren't there? You didn't need an adapter like you had previously.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

You couldn't just so talking about when Nintendo sort of did take over the the Sega do you think it was less about the games they were bringing out then and more about the the console itself and that and that to that degree?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah I think it was the marketing um I think that's a huge factor. I just think Nintendo's marketing was absolutely everywhere. Their partnership with McDonald's in in like the late 90s because I don't know I don't know if they had this in the UK McDonald's but in every single McDonald's in the like mid to late 90s there was a Nintendo in there that you could know about that.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Is that you remember that Liam no no no that's I don't think that happened I'm we had some like crayons and uh some colour and cheap yeah etch a sketch yeah we um but I do remember I might be this might be a false memory which we often get on these shows.

PlayStation’s Rise: Wipeout, Tomb Raider, RE

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Am I right in thinking though they used to used to be able to get little Mario figures at McDonald's I don't know if that's a false memory or so yeah I I I look I don't my memory isn't as good as as it used to uh used to be but I it sounds like vaguely familiar that they might have had a a toy partnership as well but um just I'd just say overarching like their marketing strategy was a lot better than Sega's and I just think Sega in coming out with their consoles like their next gen consoles kind of first the other two uh like both PlayStation and and Nintendo were able to learn from the failures of Sega and I also think that as time went on the first party the Sega wasn't able to put out as many great first party games meaning exclusive games and both Nintendo and Sony um just were able to snatch up the IPs uh and put out much better first party games that make you want to buy the system. You know what I mean? Yeah which is what it's all about yeah right right where whereas uh Sega had like Sonic that was like their you know their landmark um um first party game uh nintendo had so many just so many different characters that they could that they could pull from you know besides Mario they had Donkey Kong um they had Star Fox Star Fox that was a brilliant game I don't did did either of you ever play I never played personally no yeah it was it was the first flight simulator um that I played and I I had played the the super nintendo version but the N64 version was such a massive step up both in graphics and you know when when the characters were talking on the Super Nintendo they were going like that and then there was text written out like the 64 actually had the characters talking the mouths were moving in sync like it was just and that that game came out on launch that was a launch day game it was that one and Mario 64 and I think the I think also the launch games are super important for a system yeah because when you buy a system on the day it comes out you want to be able to play one of the best games possible and um oftentimes Sega yeah they dropped their sonic game but like they didn't have a lot of great other titles whereas Nintendo 64 had a lot of great launch day titles Ocarina of Time that was another launch day um title that that that they dropped as well I thought they they did sort of good packages as well so they did the Super Nintendo you could get it with the Mario All Stars for the Mario collection you could get the Street Fighter 2 Turbo edition uh I think there was another one as well but they they kind of packaged it up really well that you bought the console with sort of a key game that you liked.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I mean the Street Fighter 2 Turbo one was a particular hit over here I think but by 1994 was Sega still seen as obviously still seen as a major thing but had Nintendo overtaken it that you know to that I think it was probably still a split back then wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

I think it was sort of coming towards it because it seems to me that the play my uh limited knowledge on this subject it seems to me once the PlayStation came along it basically Sega just died you know not not so long after that it really was the failure of the Sega C D to kind of gain any ground because again this was a console that um Sega had in development and it was the first I think it was the first C D well I think it was the first major CD console. And it was a little like clunky and it wasn't great like what they had they had it was an like they also had an addition that you could put on top of your Mega Drive as well. I don't know if you remember this. They had like another 32x was it something like that. Yeah yeah with the 32x um and basically and that was a failure as well that was a massive failure so um and mean while they were developing a 32 bit console I mean Nintendo was putting all of its money on the 64 bit console and obviously they won out because the graphics were better the audio was better um and yeah it was just an overall better system and Sega just continued to fail to learn from the mistakes that they had made um by releasing like being first is not always being best. You know being first release something doesn't necessarily mean that you're you're gonna be best um but let's be fair let's be fair to to Sega their last system that they ever put out the Dreamcast it is one of the most underrated systems in my humble opinion.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

I don't know if you've never played I've I've never played on it but I've read a lot about how this was a almost like um you know like a a a lost sort of system because it was really good but by that point Sagra have just basically you know shot the load.

Chipped Discs, Demos And Renting Games

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yeah yeah and then again they put it out too early um and then once the GameCube and the PlayStation 2 came out which had computer uh like computing power a factor above the Sega Dreamcast it just lost out to those but the games that they put out I thought for that system they put out the very very first uh massive multiplayer online console game in Fantasy Star Online which to this day and I still I have my dream dreamcast downstairs I still play to this day because it's just that good and it's funny they actually had servers um still up for that system like five or six years ago they only shut down the servers um like a wow I didn't yeah that's crazy yeah I didn't realise that uh just up before we like obviously jump ahead obviously we got to the uh the talk about the Dreamcast and the PlayStation too the PlayStation to me was a massive moment coming out you know I remember I like I say I I'd sort of by this point I was sort of getting out of gaming really I didn't I did have a mega driver I wasn't as into it as other people you had to have this console you know like I say 994 you had to have this console I know you said you got it later uh Noah than um other people what about you Liam did you find that as well or yeah so I I I don't think I was kind of really early to it but I I I wanted it really quick and I remember getting for Christmas a PlayStation with I don't know if it's Tekken one or Tekken two but it had wipeout I had wipe out and everyone had wipeout in there yeah there was one other game but I I just remember like I I could not wait and even though by this time I was sort of I don't know maybe 15 16 it made me feel like an eight or nine year old again I I just could not wait for Christmas morning to to open the console and yeah the the PlayStation for me was absolutely huge and and Tomb Raider one it probably will always be my favourite game I've I've completed the remastered version recently actually and and really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah remember you go you're always banging on about uh the Tomb Raider uh games to be fair but I think the first one that um the reason I bought a PlayStation more than anything is because I played ISS or was it Pro Evolution then whatever which one it was um and I played it there uh on the PlayStation I thought I need this system and I got that and Resident Evil one and I'd still put Resident Evil as my favourite ever game.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah brilliant great game great game I've only played ever played the remaster uh of Resident Evil but um yeah those are all really really good games and this is where it all changed as well you got Grand Turismo you know again only for these systems um GTA obviously the first couple of GTAs coming out on PlayStation one Metal Gear solid and I think this just sort of pushed it to I think obviously Nintendo and PlayStation quite click quickly then became the main rivalry rather than and Sega just you know left the left the field but the thing that like what was interesting was that both Nintendo and PlayStation sort of settled into their niches whereas the more um I would say child gear games came child geared games came out on Nintendo the PlayStation felt like the more teenage uh like geared and and mature geared system. You know yeah sure they had some they had some platformers like um the Crash Bandicoot I'm sure I'm sure sure you'll remember that one.

Handheld Showdown: Game Boy, Game Gear, Pokémon

SPEAKER_02 31:36

But I think Nintendo really kind of found its like its niche and um and that's why they continued to be successful when the PlayStation like came out and they were able to sort of um you know uh uh get through those like murky waters when you know that third entry came in whereas Sega fell off yeah yeah they did well actually Nintendo looking back in hindsight to keep as long as they because I do think I again very uh I I'm not I'm uh loads of knowledge on this but am I right in saying that PlayStation basically have won now um out of the you know the the console box kind of came along later didn't it so that that is the Microsoft Xbox is the the modern rival sorry I don't mean now I mean like is it seen now as that the PlayStation you know eventually did wipe out the you know the Nintendo I'd say that the PlayStation was probably the winner of the like 90s console console wars I I don't know though because I I don't know who sold more units in the 90s but at least like you know like my my perception is that PlayStation one out um that being said I was much more of a Nintendo 64 guy than I ever was a PlayStation yeah yeah I mean another thing as well I I don't know if this happened on Nintendo what when I ever think of uh PlayStations is uh remember chips you're like you had to chip games and get them for cheaper and stuff like that you could like get a chip on your on your console and get cheaper games like fake games basically from people well i in in in in England like on dodgy market stores you remember that Liam yeah so we had to take the PlayStation to games workshop I think it was called or no WizKids and they would put a chip and chip in your machine and then you could go into on the Moor and Sheffield and people would just set up like a kind of spot dodgy dealing market store where a table would pop up and you'd go and be able to buy games for three pounds each I think and it were unbelievable. It were a massive game changer like because I I would you're going from I don't know how much it was then but um the mega driving Nintendo games for a kid quite expensive to buy you're getting one every couple of months at most I'd say or something like that. And then you could buy three or four in one go three or four PlayStation games in one go and that again for me was a massive game changer.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Did you have that in uh in America as well Noah no no this is like the first that I'm I'm hearing of underground world of chipped games yeah I mean to be fair though it was great but at the same time this to me is it's the sort of modern thing now with the kids that they've got so much choice of games and films you never really get through anything and that that was the start of you could play a game for a bit and if you weren't bothered you just go and get another one the next week whereas I think before that you you were stuck with the game for a while you had to give it a good go and really try and get through it and and yeah I found that brilliant but at the same time it changed the experience a little bit for me.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

It became really disposable so you just sort of threw them to one side and said oh that's too hard for me Final Fantasy 7 for me because it's such a big game and you have to sort of get into the world I never got into it as much from the PlayStation because I just sort of thought well I could just go and play something else instead and that that's really yeah quite sad really but you also got so I I bought a game called Wingover that I wouldn't necessarily have bought it was like a flight simulator where you had to shoot down the other team and it it was brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

It was one of my favourite games and I wouldn't have bought that had it not been three pound on a market stall so yeah I'm I'm sorry to you didn't have that option now yeah any hidden gems now are from the uh the PlayStation that we should know about that you that you played well I'm trying to rack my brain now you know look all my formative experiences were on the N64 um I I the first PlayStation system that I actually got close to launch uh were the PlayStation 2 but um I was I've I grew up playing hockey and so all the hockey games I have a I I you know I have a connection to and so I think it was NHL 98 or 99 that that that sticks out uh because I I did have that one on the PlayStation but I mean it's it's really interesting hearing you both talk about like the ability to get get games for just a couple of pounds like a few pounds like that was that's unheard of I mean we were at once Napster and like BitTorrent um started to become more popular we could get computer games for for free I mean obviously on those dodgy sites but um like console games um were something that you know we weren't able to that's really interesting that I didn't I didn't you know I didn't realize that were just a British or maybe a European thing. I I can't really understand why that didn't happen in America well it's very possible that it was a thing but I was just so innocent I wouldn't have even known where to to get that you know because I you know you y'all are a little bit uh like a little bit older than me when the when the PlayStation came out I think I were like maybe 10 ish nine eight or nine tenths somewhere in that realm um and yeah I would have never known and the the other thing is that in our cities at least the city that I grew up in was not really walkable um so if you were going somewhere you were going somewhere with a purpose and you drove there you know like we didn't know we didn't have like a like a place where you could walk by a dodgy marketplace and then walk in and see that they're selling you know selling that and and and go and buy it. So um it's just a little I think maybe potentially a little bit of a cultural difference you know as well.

Desert Island Picks And Replay Value

SPEAKER_02 37:17

But so if if it was sort of in all the 90s consoles is there is there anything we've missed out by the way but after the PlayStation 1 and 2 is there anything that I've I've sort of we've overlooked um well the Golden Axe games were big um in the early 90s. Yeah I love that that was the first game I got on a PlayStation that and Sonic that I got on my PlayStation Mega Drive sort of say yeah I mean and that was that was kind of an RPG as well in in a way. I used to love that game but yeah turn I mean turn based RPGs I think were you know like were sort of I don't want to say phased out in the late 90s but they had their heyday in the 90s and I mean there we didn't even talk about handheld consoles uh in yeah in the 90s um class console yeah obviously yeah we're gonna talk about that yeah like I say I'm not I'm certainly not trying to wrap up or anything like that I was just wondering if there's anything that I've missed because I was gonna just go into gaming culture it's uh in itself but I never had a handheld console um what about you Liam yeah I mean the the Game Boy was huge everybody had a Game Boy and and then I had a Game Gear sort of second hand I never had one from new uh I thought that again strange because it it didn't catch on in the same way as the Game Boy it didn't seem to anyway but many ways it was it was better it was colour um the games were I don't know maybe a little bit better NBA jam on the game gear was brilliant and then there was the Atari Lynx which I don't know if that was even a thing in America but I I know I don't know if I ever even played one of those the the game gear's failure came down to one factor and one factor alone.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

It took four double A batteries right and it the charge lasted for about an hour. You could get an hour maybe an hour whereas whereas the the Game Boy actually like you know you could play for hours and hours and hours and the fact that it wasn't in color wasn't as much of a factor as the length of playability you know if you had a long journey ahead of you and you didn't have a change of batteries I think that's what what led to the failure you know um the the one thing about the game gear was that if you were playing it at home you could plug it into a wall whereas the the Game Boy didn't have that um that component but also I think it was the games um there were just better games that were coming out for the Game Boy.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I mean poke like Pokemon alone I think is what won the handheld console I never played it but I know it's absolutely huge that I was gonna actually ask you if is there any games on the um on the handhelds that you think could stand up to the actual consoles?

Magazines, Cheats And Pre-Internet Tips

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah I it would be Pokemon um I mean that was and and it wasn't just the fact um that it's sparked the like absolute craze you know the cards came out like in that time the show came out in that time but it was the replayability of Pokemon because every single playthrough uh would be unique because you could choose three different starters right um so like from three different starters and then you know like it was just different you could create different teams and it like it was so replayable um I probably played that game no I'd no I'm trying to think have I ever even had a go on it now I don't think I have neither yeah I don't think I have actually I might get into it um if there's any console no other or take what if you could take one to a desert island from the 90s which one would you take yeah it's a 64 isn't it it's 64 and what game what game shall I ask her um singular one singular game yeah one singular game it doesn't have to be for the 64 it could you know it you can you know I'll I'll let you have any console game think how bad that would be though if you chunk in N64 to the island then you've got a PlayStation game oh shit no you're all right you'll have one game uh you're you'll have one game for one console then like it doesn't matter you know you don't have to pick a console pick a game probably legend of Zelda Majora's mask um that game I we we didn't we talked a little a little bit about Ocarina of Time and I liked Ocarina of Time a lot and I actually think overall it's the better game yeah but I think for the nostalgia I mean we're we're on kind of a nostalgia podcast here so uh for the nostalgia it would be Majora's mask like that game came out at a very formative time in my life and I had like a really close knit friend group and we were all playing through it at the exact same time and just talking about it on the bus to school every day it just triggers so many good memories I think it would be that game.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

What about you, Liam I mean I I often say Tomb Raider 1's my favourite game but I if I could only take one I don't know if I would take that I don't know how much sort of replay it has. Goldeneye would be up there. Yeah I don't know maybe international superstar soccer deluxe on the Super Nintendo I know that's easy but I thought that was yeah but you can get yeah you can get more yeah because Resident Evil my favourite game but I don't know if you get that much replayability out of it.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

So interestingly you touched on there about um talking to friends and stuff now about games I don't know if this is again I I don't we I don't think any of us really play anymore so I don't know if it is the same now. This was the first time as well where everyone was sort of playing the same games it wasn't like the Amigra especially in the C64 era where everyone had all these bizarre games and everyone were playing different games.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

These were the first time I'm gonna score I'm stuck on Resident Evil what do I do for this bit and people were giving tips and stuff like that across yeah and it really were before like the internet was the place to go if you needed like so you had to talk to your friends about how to get past these these difficult spots in in the games and yeah I I mean I think that that's like you touched on something um that everybody did have pretty much the same like the same games and everybody were playing it at exactly the same time.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

I mean I remember having having to buy guidebooks for oh about dimension guidebooks yeah yeah strategy guides I I got one for Resident Evil there were a couple of bits that I got stuck on and then magazine there were cheats and stuff obviously in magazines really up down left you know and all that sort of stuff you can unlock new characters and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Up down up down left right left right BA start that was the that was the master cheat code I still remember it to this day amazing but yeah obviously like your strategy guards and your and uh do you know any mag did you used to buy magazines?

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Did you buy um any sort of magazine console magazines?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah Nintendo Power I had a Subscription to Nintendo Power.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Because I wanted to know, like, I was so fascinated with what was next, you know, like where where do we go from here? We've got the 64-bit console.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

It can't get better than this. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Right. I know. I I remember when the 64 came out, and I was like, I don't know how they make the graphics any more realistic.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely. Did you read magazines, Liam, and get uh cheat guides and stuff?

SPEAKER_04 44:27

No, so I like to kind of complete games properly. I didn't like to use guys and things like that. Um, it what I thought was great of the PlayStation, and this was where the CD sort of functionality became great, was the demo CDs. So you could buy the PlayStation magazine, the official one, and you'd get little demo, little half levels, or little bits of yeah, and and that was brilliant. That I thought that was such a good concept to let you have just a little taster of some of the games that were coming up. And yeah, I used to buy that religiously every month, uh, PlayStation magazine.

The 90s Leap: 8-Bit To 128-Bit

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Do you used to hire games now? Because I think you'll be with me, Early, and where WizKids uh used to be able to hire games for a week or maybe just a couple of days, actually.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

We we had Blockbuster, and uh so you could rent you could rent video games at the time.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Um, you could actually rent entire consoles from Blockbuster, which was a good idea because that's obviously I remember renting games and thinking I'm buying this because it's a good little, you know, it's a it's a taster of like what you what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Yeah, absolutely. Um I I mean I I rented uh Majora's Mask before I bought it um because you know I knew I was I knew I was probably gonna buy it, but I also wanted to like just try it out for like a week or so to see like what the difficulty level was because they they said it was a step up from Ocarina of Time in some respects. Um and I wanted to make sure like I was like, well, I don't want to go through all the trouble of paying, I think it were like$70 at the time, which was like I mean a lot of a lot of money like for a kid, you know. And I so I saved my allowance every week and I wanted to make sure that I liked it. But yeah, yeah, we rented a few blockbusters.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

So I never I never played Majora's Mask, and I'm looking now, it looks like it was the 3DS it was released in the UK, potentially, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

There was a version, and that was years and years later. Um right, sorry, yeah, no, there is a 64, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

No, that's one I've never played, actually.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Really good game, really, really good game. Uh again, not as popular um or as critically uh well recepted as Ocarina of Time was, but I still think, like for me, it's my favorite, it's my favorite Zelda game, actually.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Is there any like do you either of you sort of ever fire up the old? I know everyone's got emulator. Well, not everyone's got emulators, but you can get emulators and stuff. Does any do you actually do that, or do you you think, well, it's just obviously the games are so much better now. What's the point?

SPEAKER_00 46:59

So on my sw I have a Switch, um, like an original Switch, not a Switch 2. And I I do have they have an emulator on on that console. And I don't know why. I mean, considering that I could get a free emulator, I still I pay for that on a yearly basis. I think it's like$50 a year um here in the States, but I do pay for it, and I play a lot of the old games. I play Mario 64, Star Fox, um, you know, they have Majora's Mask on there as well. So I I do play that periodically. Um, the only console, and it's just because they don't, it's impossible to emulate, um, that I you know that I fire up at home is my Dreamcast.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting now, because like you say, it it was a bit of a flop in terms of sales, obviously, Dreamcast, but it's got this like reputation of being like an incredible system. I never played it. Um, you you said Liam that you obviously play now with your um your your kids and Sonic and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Um did they fire it up for some of the older games so that I got bought one of those like mini Super Nintendo's fairly recently that comes with about 10 games on it. So I've I've fired up Donkey Kong fairly recently.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Um did they enjoy it or do they say that this is shit? Like why did they come back?

SPEAKER_04 48:16

No, no, they I mean some of them, so I think the Star Fox, the first one was Star Wing, I think it was released as in the UK, and the first one of those I I loved. Um, I know you said no, it moved on a lot for the N64, but it was the the SNES, the Super Nintendo version that I played. I thought that was great, but I must admit that it doesn't really hold up in terms of graphics, it's it's it's very dated now. But yeah, I think original Mario Kart is still very playable. Donkey Kong still holds up to me graphics, it's it's a little bit blurry, but it still kind of holds the test of time. Um but yeah, I mean, I don't know, they don't play consoles in the same way that that we did now. That they play a lot of games on the phone, the phones are the main platform for playing games, it's not a console anymore.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

It's interesting we talked about Game Boys, obviously. Tetris will never be look because it was so simple as a game, you don't need the graphics, that's always going to be.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Well, Tetris was one of them. I remember my brother got a Game Boy before me, but you could give it to my grandma or granddad, and they they could play it, they could understand it within seconds and have a go on it, and to them it was like, Oh wow, this is great, actually. I get it. So, yeah, well a brilliant entry-level game for the Game Boy, and and I think really well marketed actually, because obviously you could get Mortal Kombat, you could get I'm adding Looney Tunes on the Game Boy, and all different games that graphically were far better than Tetris, but Tetris will always be playable.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Yeah, yeah. Um, anything else you wanted to add, Noah, that we've missed out on.

Wrap-Up And Noah’s Plugs

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Um well, I mean, just I th I personally think that the 90s was the biggest jump from you look, because in the 90s you went from 16-bit, well, actually 8-bit consoles because Super Nintendo didn't come out until 91, right? So you started the decade uh with 8-bit consoles, and you ended the decade with a hundred um and 28-bit consoles. So I mean the exponential jump, I just think it was the most formative decade because there was no such thing as a first-person shooter in in the beginning of the the 90s. I mean, real like the the first one that I can remember, and this wasn't for a console, mind you, was I mean, I guess you could say like Doom and like Duke Nukem were kind of first-person shooters, yeah. Um, but they were really like kind of early, like they were like the beta, you know, the bait the the the form like the formative uh ones for what would be, you know, in the late 90s, where you had perfect dark and uh and goldeneye um at the end of the decade and then Counter-Strike on uh on the computer. But I just think that the 90s were I think the maybe the most important decade for video games so far. So far.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Yeah, I think it was a bit of a sort of privilege to to kind of get through that because we as you say, we we were on that journey, we started playing these kind of quite basic, I mean, eight-bit. So I I probably had an Atari ST right at the end of the 90s playing Treasure Island Dizzy and and you know, really sort of 8-bit console games. And like you say, to to think where we finished with Wipeout and Tomb Raider and and yeah, it's it's it was brilliant to be part of that journey and kind of see what what was next. I I'm not sure that that'll happen again. I know it's all becoming sort of immersive and 3D, and that there are there is another step to have, but I don't know, that that just felt like a golden era that that sort of ten years through the nineties.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

And you've got I mean that I started the 90s with an amiga, and I I think you probably did the same Leon pretty much. And then to end that era, I mean the Amigas is I still think it's a fantastic system, but the difference in the games that you were playing from then to I mean even stuff like we've obviously done the football one with um with Webding. You start off like Champ Manager 92, 93, and it's just like by the end of that decade they've got graphics on it and stuff that just that journey alone from that one game, and there's obviously other games like that where games have gone on a you know, franchise have gone on GTA is an amazing, you know, the difference between the first ever one and the ones that you were playing by the you know by the year 2000 is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I absolutely agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Well, you went from like a uh on a football game, it being a sort of made up of I don't know, 20 or 30 pixels player to actually being able to recognise a player by the end of the 90s, and that was that was huge that you could you could see who you were playing with, yeah. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Yeah, but that's fantastic, that Noah. You've brought some genuine knowledge to this podcast, which is very unusual. Rare, isn't it? Very, very rare, really interesting that. Um really, really good. Thank you so much for that, Noah. And we'll have you on again if you want to talk about anything because you've put us to shame with your uh vast knowledge of uh of consoles of the 90s. So thank you very much. And if you have everything you want to promote, by the way, or anything, or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Well, first and foremost, I'll just say uh, you know, like you asked me about what I ate yesterday. I have no fucking clue, but um, I can remember the 90s like that happened yesterday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um it just it's a funny thing about memory, isn't it? Um so really quickly, uh, if you are a Chef United fan and you don't mind um if this hasn't been too harsh on your ears listening to a Yank Talk, uh Red Half of Sheffield, uh it's a podcast that I do with Chad Jarvis. Um we release a podcast almost every week. You can find us at Red Sheffield on Twitter. Um you can if you want to follow me on Twitter, X or whatever it's called, I'm at Nestman930 and on Instagram at Sunpuck. So if you want to give me a follow there, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Excellent. And if you're not a Sheffield United fan, I'd still listen to it. My favorite bit about the podcast is definitely when it's just you two talking about what you've been up to that week. The last one, as we're recording this, um, you were talking about what Olympic uh winter Olympic sport should be best at, which um have you heard it yet, Liam? This one, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:11

Yeah, brilliant. No, I I think yeah, obviously it's a Sheffield United podcast, so it's so it's certainly one of Chef United fans, but any football fans, it's nice to get that perspective from a from a different angle. And and actually, you both do know your your football or soccer, as you guys would say, so it it's entertaining, but it's also uh well worth a listen in terms of yeah, I think you're you're pretty spot on most weeks with uh with your reviews and thoughts about where we are, so yeah, definitely check that out.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Yeah, and thank you, Nella. Really, really do appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Cheers, lads. Cheers, guys.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

Thank you for listening to Who Remembers. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us at WhoRemembers Pub.com. If you are a right-wing fascist, you can find us on Twitter at WhorremembersPub. Or if you're a wokener, you can find us on Blue Skin at WhoRemembers Pub. Once again, thank you for listening, and we will see you next time for more remembering.