WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
A nostalgia trip for anyone in the UK who grew up on dial-up Internet, Findus Crispy Pancakes, and playground rumours that couldn’t be fact-checked online. We’re not historians — we don’t do dates, and we barely do facts — but science says reminiscing gives your brain a dopamine hit, so think of us as your weekly dose of hazy memories, childhood flashbacks, and confidently misremembered events.
Expect frequent arguments about who remembers things properly as we rummage through the UK’s collective memory box.
WHO REMEMBERS? The UK Nostalgia Podcast
The Major Charles Ingram ‘Millionaire’ Scandal
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A million pounds changed hands on paper—then everything fell apart. We pull apart the “coughing major” saga from the studio lights to the courtroom, tracing how a tense TV moment became a legal landmark and a cultural myth.
If you’re fascinated by true crime, British TV history, media bias, game show strategy, and the fine line between drama and due process, this one’s for you. Listen, weigh the evidence, and tell us where you land—innocent, guilty, or simply not proven. And if you enjoyed the episode, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show.
Setting Up The Millionaire Scandal
SPEAKER_00Hello and welcome to Who Remembers, the UK Nostalgia Podcast. And in this episode, we are asking Who Remembers the Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Major Charles Scandal?
SPEAKER_01Major Charles, so yeah, I think this did you say this is a a a recommendation from a while ago?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Chango Mutler, the great Chango Mutler, great guy. Um JP, he asked us to do this um ages ago and we didn't do it. Um I know a lot of people have asked us to do episodes as well. But we will get round to doing them all, as this proves. But we are actually releasing this episode to coincide with the new three-part IEV drama quiz, which uh dramatizes the 2001 Who Wants to be a Millionaire coffin scandal involving Charles Ingram, which is now available on Netflix. We're we're we're toyed with getting the Major himself in on this, obviously not the actual Major Ingram, uh Major Charles, Twitter legend, Major Charles. Joe Stevenson, yeah. Didn't seem that one of it didn't seem that bothered, it seemed like he wanted to do Pauling Fowl more. So we didn't want to but if he's listening, let us know where we're going wrong on this, and he can always go in for a part two and let us know what we've got wrong.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, it'd be interesting where we end up and whether we're aligned with uh the Twitter or ex Major Charles Innocent.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I'm really sort of in between here. I don't know about you. I know you watched a couple of documentaries, aren't you, about this? I suppose people I presume everyone knows what we're talking about. It's the you know uh 2001 scandal where Major Charles Ingram won a million pounds who wants to be a millionaire, only to see it taken away from him after he was found guilty of cheating in a court of law.
Format, Lifelines, And Early Impressions
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's that's the kind of ending before we've even started, isn't it? But that's uh what what we'll do is kind of go through the story and then decide whether we think he should get the million or not. Because as it stands, uh he hasn't got it, he's found guilty in it, he had to leave the uh the army.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll get a little background on the major here. He trained for the British Army and was commissioned as an officer in the Royal Engineers. He was promoted to the rank of captain in 1990 and major in 1995. In 1999, Ingram was sent to Banja Luca in Bosnia. I'm just gonna say it and carry on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For six months on the United Nations peacekeeping duties. Um, but the big thing was what obviously we're here for is on on the 9th of September 2001, Ingram became a contestant on the ITV game show Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? His wife, Diana, and his uh her brother Adrian had already appeared on the show, both winning£32,000 each. But Ingram said he wanted to get at least£32,000 so he could match them, hopefully more. And to prepare, he practiced for about 20 minutes a day on the fastest finger first machine. Do you think you'd be good at that, Liam?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, obviously the studio lights, I suppose, make it different. But I would say like if I know the answer, I reckon I'm normally quicker than him. Obviously, if you don't know it, you have to guess. That's different.
SPEAKER_00I panic a lot, mate. I I I think I'd be oh, I need to be quick, and then like putting it all through, do you know what I mean? All over the place. I don't think I'd ever get in the hot seat.
SPEAKER_01I quite often think like when it comes up, because the way the way it works, we'll go through the show for anyone who doesn't know the format, but uh the first bit before you even get on the quiz, there's a panel of I want to say ten, but it might be eight people all sat around in chairs, and they read out a question, and it's generally put these four things in the right order.
SPEAKER_00So it might say the tarot will say, right, which one of these four? Uh go yeah, hoo-hoo, go in order. Uh the first team to win the Premier League. Is it Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester United, or I can't think of anyone else? Chelsea. Yeah, yeah, whatever, yeah. And then Mike they've got to go, well, you've all got it right, but the fastest one was Major Charles.
SPEAKER_01And it gives you the times that they got, it tells you the ones who got it right, and it tells you the times, and obviously, fastest finger. I mean, obviously, the first thing I noticed on this because I was watching it with a with a right eye, I suppose, rather than just watching an episode, is that there's obviously so many breaks in this. When you watch it as a TV episode, you kind of think it just flows really nicely. Yeah, but what I noticed is obviously Major Charles is the fastest, but then when Tarrant goes over to get him, he's already got the sort of mic pack on his back. So there's obviously been a pause there to say, right, he's won it, let's get him mics on. So when they announce it, they kind of have to go, Oh, brilliant, yeah, it's me.
SPEAKER_00They they already knew, I would say. Yeah, ah, I didn't know that. Well, as no, by the way, if you've ever been on it, um it's not something I well, not you. Obviously, I know you've I presume you've not been on it. It'd be mad if you've been on this never said it. I actually won a million on it.
SPEAKER_01I won a million pounds the week after Major Charles.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the week after this, actually. So I'll put in here with I go too quick, I don't want to go through every single question. It goes it gets through the first five questions fairly easily, not using a wife.
SPEAKER_01Again, yeah, sorry, just before you go through the questions, yeah. For anyone who doesn't know, and and uh really, really quick, because I think everybody does. You start, there's a list of 15 questions that take you up to a million pounds. They start easy with low monetary value, and you build up as you go. There's a couple of milestones, a thousand and thirty-two, which after those points, if you get it wrong, you drop back to that, so you still take something, and you get three lifelines, you get 50-50, which eliminates two of the four. You get a phone a friend where you have I think you get a list of people you can contact to ask a question, and you get the ask the audience. So everyone in the world. Have you ever seen Buzzer?
SPEAKER_00That phone a friend in the American version, the guy who wins, and he's not used a single lifeline up to the million. By the way, they're a lot easier the questions in America. I've been watching like a few episodes, like a both are so much easier in America. But he gets to the uh he gets to the million pound question. He goes, I'd I'd like to uh find a friend, I'm gonna phone my dad. And he phones his dad and says, Dad, I'm about to win a million pounds because he knows the answer. Cock him. Imagine if you got it wrong though. I would never be that brave. Never ever would I dare be that you'd look a right dick, wouldn't you, if you got it wrong.
SPEAKER_01I suppose you would have to absolutely know it. But yeah, even then, if it yeah, imagine you got that wrong, it's ridiculous. But I quite admire the show boating, though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fair play to him. Um so the first five you get, like I say, the first normally people get to at least a thousand. There's not many people have gone away with nothing. It's kind of set up to try and get you to something, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Uh obviously, if you don't know it, you don't know it. But with your three life. That's what Tarant says. Tarant always says they're only easy if you know the answer. And he's rather but I've seen a couple of people, there's a compilation actually, millionaire fails, and it's all the people who've like obviously left with nothing. Some of the questions are all pretty. There's three or four in there that are like, I'd have to. But what they do, I think they're so worried about not using a lifeline so early that you guess and then they get and then they're out. Just use your lifelines, man. Do you know what I mean?
Night One: Easy Wins And Red Flags
SPEAKER_01You don't want to look stupid, do you? So you No. When it seems obvious, you kind of think, well, it must be that. But yeah, if there's any doubt, anybody listening who's not been on yet who's gonna go on it, if there's any doubt, use your lifelines.
SPEAKER_00And there's a there's one where it says which Jane Austen novel uh it was named after. What what what name was it named after? And one of the uh options the the the title is Anne of the of the I think it's Anne. Oh I I've forgot myself, I'm already nervous because I'm live in the podcast and recording studio. But anyway, he says Jane, and I thought and I thought, I can see why you've said that in a in a panicked moment of like, well, Jane, Jane Austen, yeah, surely it's a because he's obviously got confused and thought, well, that's her autobiography, but they're on about a novel, obviously. Right. So this stuff like that, once you're in the hot I think it's easy to judge when when someone's in the hot seat. I remember our mate, Russell Paul Jones. We were in a quiz and he went to a tie break and he went up and he was shaking, and that was just for£100 in white swan. They did win, though, in fairness to him, so he kept his cool something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, as you say, he skims through the first few. There's there's one uh there's a military question in there that Tarrant does his uh you've got to get this one, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he goes, Oh, I'm a bit nervous now. But just say, by the way, the the early impressions of the major, what did you have? I I liked him. I liked him as a character.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he comes across as a slightly sort of bumbling. Well, Tarrant actually refers to him in one of the documentaries as a bit of a uh he says, what does he say?
SPEAKER_00It says dim but nice. Yeah, dim but nice. And he says, uh sorry, nice but dim. Yeah, uh that one of those sorts, yeah. Yeah, and I don't it don't it comes across as a bit a bit of a posh. I do know what Tarrant means. I don't I won't say I think dim's harsh. He's a very sort of oh complain. He's a bit of a boss.
SPEAKER_01Oh, anybody see the the rugger this week? Anybody see the rugger source?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Has anyone uh caught uh any of the uh the rugby union this weekend? Oh some some cracking tries, yeah. I can I think he'd be good company though.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I I think he's likable. And I think to me, the first red flag that they don't seem to like, and I've only seen a trailer for this new Netflix thing, and I've obviously watched some stuff about uh sort of going back the historical documentary. I don't think they like the fact that he's part of this family who kind of have all gone on it and have all took some money out of it. I I don't think they think that's in the spirit of the thing that this one family is. I mean, they're not monopolising it, that's their own word, but they've they've kind of got on it more than their fair share, it feels.
SPEAKER_00And I think Imagine being that obsessed with getting on Who Wants to be a Millionaire as a family. Like, oh, who's gonna go for it this week? Oh god, I bet it's my turn. Yeah, if he'd have like got away with this, this could have gone on for generations, like they could be on the clerk someone now, couldn't they? Like his son.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just just constant Ingram and Which Ingram's won this week on the fastest finger.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, who wants to be a an English millionaire?
SPEAKER_01Which Ingram family wants to be a millionaire, yeah. Uh anyway. But I so I think from what I've seen of this Netflix trailer and from the documentaries, the the the production team and everybody seems to be skeptical of him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, straight away, immediately. I don't know if the documentaries that I've seen, I've watched about four of them. The production team of and even at this stage we were thinking, hmm, not sure about this. And I thought, did you did you actually think about it?
SPEAKER_01I think there's an awful lot of retrospective storytelling here because I I mean, obviously we'll we'll get to it as it goes through, but you know, one of the takeaways, nobody else who was there in the crowd had any concerns. They asked people who were there, and nobody saw anything unusual.
SPEAKER_00So well, tell you what, let's just go through it because this is all in night two, where they contract. So it was still in night one, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Well, did you see on one of the documentaries, by the way, on night one? Yeah, so it's it's done over two parts, there's an ad break, and they even used that as like uh that that they paused it for this reason, but they didn't, they just finished shooting for the day. But yeah, so his brother-in-law, was it? Um yes, that's right, I'm on it, yeah. His wife and brother-in-law, so he kept nipping out the studio, apparently, and he was using his phone, which is apparently you're not allowed to use your phone. He was told once, then he went out again on his phone. Yeah, so they kept uh an eye on him. And somebody speculated that potentially he had a pager, one strapped on his left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg, yeah, that that he would get buzzed depending upon the answer. But I mean, part one, it's only the easy questions, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I suppose that that would be good. Would he be wearing a t-shirt anyway? I'm sure he's wearing a t-shirt, so he's he's not got one on his wrist, has he? He might have got one on his leg. I I don't think he is for a second. But anyway, is he just adding to it? Yeah.
Night Two Begins: A New Strategy
SPEAKER_01To me, there's no concerns with him getting through the the first bit. I think is is it the 32,000 question where the first sort of thing is?
SPEAKER_00Well, so so question this is this is what the this is what happens. So then question six, this is still night one. He gets asked uh who is Audrey's daughter on Coronation Street, and obviously me and you both know, but that's Gail. Gail uh Gail Gail Platt, yeah. But he doesn't know this, obviously, being a major, he's he's not interested in Coronation Street. I mean, I have to ask the audience, I'm afraid. Obviously, they get it, and then he uses the another lifeline on the next question, which is something I I didn't have a guess of, I wouldn't have been completely sure. Uh, the River Foyle was in which uh part of the UK, and he phones his friend Gerald. I love that. I I want to phone Gerald. He phones Gerald, um, who says he'd be 99% sure it was Northern Ireland, it was Northern Ireland, so he's got£4,000, but this is the one.
SPEAKER_01That's such a cowardly thing, by the way. That do you know if you phoned me and I knew the answer? Yeah. 99%, innit? Like you know it, you know it.
SPEAKER_00Like well, if I phoned you like on Desmatt's quiz and said, What's the fastest animal if you're working on it? Well, imagine Desmatt I'd see it as well, the crosswalk. I mean, he's the tyrant.
SPEAKER_01You either know it or you don't know. Like, imagine if you phoned me and said that, and I said, Well, I'm 83% sure it's uh it's a mountain lion. Yeah, I don't like putting a percentage on it. I either know it or you don't know it. And if you I think if you don't know it, you'd say, I I could have quite an educated guess that it's this. I don't like 99% because that's it's giving you a get out of jail card. Say, well, I didn't say hundreds.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't say hundred, I said 99. Um, but this is important because he's used two lifelines, uh early doors. Early, he's only got 4,000 pounds, 50-50 life right um lifeline remaining, all the production team, and I do believe they said this is just gonna be one of them, is gonna win about 16 foul max. Do you know what I mean? They didn't think this was gonna be like a big show stopper, he's gonna get a bit of money and he's gonna go home. But now we come to the controversy, Liam. So it goes off for um it goes off actually for the next show, doesn't it? So the the the show stops completely.
SPEAKER_01I think it gives an answer before the show ends.
SPEAKER_00But I think it's no, I don't think I think that's an advert. I think that's an advert. Sure. I think that's later on. I could be wrong, I could be wrong with that. But but either way, he asked he he's got£4,000 in the bank and he's got um a 50-50 lifeline. And then he he gets a night off, basically. They say, right, go back to your hotel room, come back tomorrow. And this is apparently and it does get a bit weird here. I I think that's I think that's fair to say.
SPEAKER_01It does, but I'm I mean, I'm probably showing my cards early on here. I'm I'm leaning towards the fact that they're looking for something that isn't necessarily there. Because I mean we'll we'll we'll get through the journey, but I mean some of the things that they claim as sort of proof that he was cheating, uh they almost contradict themselves in their own evidence at times. So on I think this this is the question, isn't it? Where who came out the album born to do it?
The Craig David Turning Point
SPEAKER_00Well, no, before that, so he gets into the hot seat for the day two, blah blah blah, and he he explicitly says to Chris Tarron, I was too defensive on the last show, I'm gonna take more risks. So he says that, and Tarron's like, yeah, fair enough, you know, he goes, I've got a strategy and I'm gonna take more risks. And what he this is what the the detractors are claiming, and he does do this on every single question that night, he'd go through uh the four choices of the answers. He Charles Letty said in court that he did that because he wanted to think without interruption. So he's going, is it that? Oh, is it that or is it that? The best example is the one that you're talking about. There's a for£32,000, question 10. He had a UK album, a hit at UK album with Born to Do It, would you have got this by the way?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I've yeah. I mean it's difficult because I've I've probably seen it before, but my brother had the album, and before the options came up, certainly this time round, I I kind of thought I knew it, and it did come up, and I thought, yeah, I'd be confident.
SPEAKER_00So he you but he's not sure, but he does he says he's no clue. So he uses his 50-50, and the two remaining answers are A1, and he says, I think it is A1, and Craig David, and he says I've never heard of Craig David.
SPEAKER_01Well, Craig David, when he first comes up and he goes through the options, he's not heard of Coldplay. I mean, who is this guy? Some sort of alien, anyway. He's not heard of Coldplay. I don't know who Coldplay are, I have no idea who they are. He's not heard of um uh Craig David. He says it can't be top loader because that's part of a gun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I don't think it's that because that's a gun. As if no one's ever been named after like uh anything like before.
SPEAKER_01Like they and as if they wouldn't like list four bands that like I see what they've done there, give me three bands and part of a gun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know, yeah, like it can't be radio head because you know it's a it's a listening device uh uh and and someone's head that that can't be true. It's like ridiculous. Like, so he gets to this is where like it starts getting a bit weird. So before this, there is footage that's shown after that suggests that when he's got the right answer, uh an audible cough can be heard from behind uh or in the audience from somewhere.
SPEAKER_01That becomes nonsense on one of the later ones, but you're right, at this point in time the documentary suggests that when he gets to the right one, somebody will cough.
SPEAKER_00But this time there's no coughs according to the documentary.
SPEAKER_01But but this is crazy though, because he he kind of seems to zone in on A1 and he actually gives it as an answer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he says, I'll I'm gonna go A1 and he goes, Are you sure? He goes, No.
SPEAKER_01But then obviously the way the format of the show works is Tarant will say, right, is that your final answer? So you he you kind of get a sanity check. But imagine if if he thinks he's being sort of communicated that the answer's Craig David, yeah, why would you even dare? How brave would you have to be to say A1 and then him to say is that your final? Imagine if he just said, right, we'll take that as your final answer. Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, no, I don't I don't want to actually uh like so he says A1, and then there is footage of his wife in the audience when he says A1 going so it's two coughs. So what they've suggested is that two coughs means no, it's the second answer. So just as he's about to go to A1, he goes, No, I've changed my mind, I'm going for Craig David. Tarant goes, You've never heard of Craig David. He goes, Yes, but 80% of the time I'm wrong, so I'm just gonna go for Craig David. And the answer is, as you know, Craig David. Craig David. Craig David. So he's really happy about this. The next couple of questions I do think he knows because he sort of gets them fairly quickly, but he does do the going round the houses thing again where he goes.
SPEAKER_01But by the way, just on that, because some of the one of the production teams sort of says, you know, that's outrageous that he's done that. We we've played Quiz Machines, I I've played him with Jody a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite often, uh if you're kind of not sure, you kind of zone in on one, and then last minute you think, no, fuck it, I'm gonna go the other one. You you kind of second guess yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we had a we had a lot of things.
SPEAKER_01I don't I don't think that's completely but they're holding that up as the first clear point of yeah, this this is when we knew.
SPEAKER_00It's like that where we we were we did a quiz a couple of nights ago as we're recording this, and there were a song that came on, you had to guess the song, and we were like I don't know if you were involved in the thing, but we were saying like sound I know it's not abba, I know it's not abba, it sounds like abba sound, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then we did put abba because we didn't really you think even though we knew it wasn't abba, we just thought it's yeah, because we had nothing else.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like abba, yeah. So we you might be thinking, well, you say it wasn't then.
SPEAKER_01Why have you written down that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I yeah. So could it be a good idea?
SPEAKER_01If we could have got that right, somebody could have said, Well, it that's clearly cheating because you said it wasn't ABBA. Well, no, we just didn't have anything else to go on.
Coughs, Cuts, And Confusion
SPEAKER_00Well, this comes up next, and this is the this is the I think this is the most incriminating evidence, definitely. Question 14, 500,000 pounds. The question was uh Baron Hausmann is best known for the planning of which city. Immediately, the major goes, I think it's Berlin. I think that's even before the answers come up. I think it's Berlin. Paris comes up, which is the actual answer, and he says, It's not Paris, it's definitely not Paris. So, in this question, he sort of keeps saying Berlin, but it's the only question that he doesn't go around the houses because he's that sure in his own mind that it's Berlin. And you can hear somebody, and this is a fact, you can and I know there's gonna be a lot of major Charles defenders out there, and maybe I'll be one by the end of this episode. Someone definitely says no like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I mean we we've skipped quite a few there, because there's one that gets where there's absolutely no coughing, which Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is why I skipped by him because I don't think they come into it.
SPEAKER_01Well no, but there's there's another one where it claims that her cough is done. There's one where they say she's coughing to confirm, and like the documentary says, the cough now is clear confirmation of the answer. But then there's another one where it says uh the cough is clearly evidence that this is not the correct answer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, this is interesting, there's I do hear the you can hear the no. I've heard people.
SPEAKER_01But remember the the no you've heard? No, I believe is from real cleaned up, tuned up audio where they've isolated certain people and removed all the other coughing, all the other noise, and they've actually people said it was almost comical how sort of loud and clear some of the coughs were because they they weren't like that in reality. They they'd sort of put them through an auto-tune.
SPEAKER_00Well, this is the thing as well. So despite the no, Charles still says, No, I think it's Berlin, Chris, I think it's Berlin. And then someone blows the nose, and the documentary that's that I've watched and you've probably watched, says, and there it is, the the the clear sign that the nose blow was was uh part of the plan, um if he's getting an answer wrong. I don't know, he goes through the answers again, he he says Paris, a cough is heard, but as you said, I think I I think it's something like two thousand and whatever coughs were made in this episode. So it could have been, you know, coincidence. He says Paris two more times after and then there is two more coughs, and Charles finally goes with Paris. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why he's so sure about Berlin then changes to Paris, but as we've said, it can happen.
SPEAKER_01It can, and I I just think from watching this they don't even I mean Maybe I'm missing something, but they don't even seem clear in what the accusation is that the cough is a trigger, but but they don't seem to know if it's a trigger of yes or no, or the number of times the cough is relevant, or they they say that she keeps looking at the brother in law when she wants him to do something.
SPEAKER_00It's not the brother in law, there's we'll get to him again. There's a guy Is it a cousin? No, no, it's just a fra it. The the the theory is that they met him on the show and they got they came to a deal. Look, we'll share this if you help us out or whatever.
SPEAKER_01But I think that it's there's there's so many so many assumptions on this. So so one is that this slightly bumbling man has got this real clear strategy based around coughing, and the fact that he would know her cough from everybody else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is what you don't get in the documentary, and this is what is unfair on him. We only hear the coughs that we want the showers that they've decided are relevant. And I think I think it's two hundred I think I'm I might be it's it's something like this percentages. I think it's 200 coughs or whatever on the uh uh while he's doing his uh just just just while Ingram's in the chair, and 70 of them come from one man. That don't necessarily mean that you know that that's a cheating thing. This guy might have just got a cough or a nervous cough.
SPEAKER_01Well I think he says it an allergy or sort of dust or something. But I think the other thing is once you start coughing, it it becomes in your head on the colour. Oh, it does, yeah. And you start coughing.
SPEAKER_00But I've just cough then, I've genuinely just cough then, and like this is why it's like we're because we're talking about coughing. I've just gone like that.
SPEAKER_01Once you know you start doing it, I reckon there'll be people there'll be people listening coughing all over the place now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there will be, yeah, there'll be coughs all over the place. COVID will start all over again because of this.
SPEAKER_01Well I think the the other thing is like to to assume it it relies on the fact that his wife who got£32,000 and potentially this other guy will know all the answers. Yeah. And that's why the Craig David thinks he knows an answer, that they'll somehow be able to overrule him and overrule.
The £500k Paris Question Debate
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because Tarant kept saying that. Did you threaten to overrule him? Did you threaten to overrule him? That's why the Craig David question is different. Is Craig David question is the only one where the the the other guy who gets accused later on, as we'll get to, doesn't cough because he has no idea of the answer, and it's his wife that coughs twice. That is the only sort of you know, that's the only time that someone else coughs. But like you say, it could be a cough. So we get to the million pound question anyway, Liam. This is a million pound question. I didn't know the answer to this, I don't know if you did. Um a number one followed by 100 zeros is known by what name? A Google, a Megatron, a gigabit, and or a nanomole.
SPEAKER_01So I yeah, I do know it now. What I can't kind of hand on heart say is do I now know it because of this? That I remember from years ago. But I I seem to remember at the time thinking, yeah, yeah, I would have gotten a million pound question.
SPEAKER_00So Charles thinks it's a nanomole straight away. He says, I've never heard of a Google, which is the correct answer. And then a cough's heard after he says Google. By the way, don't don't put I am only putting in what was saying this documentary. I'm not saying you know, I'm just putting the the what this documentary and then all the other documentaries in the court heard. So a cough is heard after Google after he says Google. It then goes around the houses again and takes ages. Oh, it could be a Megatron, oh it could be this, and after he says Google again, another cough is heard. Charles then checks all the answers for a third time, and on Google again, there's another cough. So he says it one final time, and then there is another cough. However, so he goes for Google, obviously, he goes, I've never heard of it. And by I mean, this makes a bit of sense to me. I don't think it's any of the other three. I've never heard of Google. I'm I'm gonna, you know, I'll plunt for it. I'll I'll go for that because why not? I don't I don't I don't know the others. His wife's in the audience here, like physically shaking, you know, with her with her head in her hands, like, why are you playing this question? They've said later, this is what I don't agree with, or they've saying like he's gone too far with it now, he's gone too far with the cheating. I don't think it's that. I think she's genuinely just take the 500 grand man and get out. Do you know what I mean? You don't need to guess this.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, because obviously the implication is if he gets the half a million question wrong or the million question wrong, he drops right back to 32,000.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the kind of risk and reward, sorry, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The risk and reward of this one question is is huge.
SPEAKER_00And his wife's shaking her head and you know, like not happy in the audience.
SPEAKER_01So Which again, if it's some sort of masterminder, like what why it they can't know all the answers and tell him all the answers. So even if even if the accusation is, and to me it's very hard to prove that they maybe helped him on a couple of questions. I think that's so hard to prove, but it it almost tells a tale of how he was sort of you know, this this fool was told the answer to every question, and I just don't think that is the case, and it can't that can't be the case either. Because like you say, she she seemingly from her reaction actually doesn't want him to play this.
SPEAKER_00No, she she doesn't, she definitely it's not acting that she you can't act that she's literally physically shaking and she's gonna be a little bit more than a little bit. No, I could act like that. I could act it, I reckon. Oh, but you're the next James Corden, aren't you? Not everyone is. Um so uh but yeah, so he says Google, then he says, Look, please don't go for a break, Chris. And he goes, We're gonna go for a break. So he goes for a break, comes back, and he goes through it all like he does. And he's he's good at it, Tarant. I'm taking the piss out of his voice there. He hates that bad way. I saw him on this morning.
SPEAKER_01He's a showman, isn't he?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I saw him on this morning recently talk about it because I just hope he doesn't do the you know the hoo hoo bit. So if he's listening to this, Tarant, he's gonna absolutely detest. Well, particularly me, because I've been doing it all. But I'm just not very good in practice.
SPEAKER_01I'm a fan of his work, though. I think he's got it.
SPEAKER_00Well, he's brilliant at this. Anyway, this is what he's fantastic at. So he goes right and he is really tense, even though I know he's he's got the right answer. Even I'm like, oh god, he's like, you didn't know you'd never heard of a Google, but it seems to me that you didn't know any of the questions, like laughing and stuff like that. He's obviously got it right and he's won one million pounds, and his wife comes down to celebrate with him. Again, the documentary team said, No, she wasn't very happy. She looks sort of like a quite a stony-faced woman to me. There's some people are like that.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, and I think you'd be in shock, wouldn't you? Like it this is a huge amount of money that they've just won. I also think she's probably annoyed that he's beat her. I think she looks the type that'll be like Yeah, yeah.
The Million Question: Google Or Bust
SPEAKER_00Well, we're gonna get on to that. So I'm gonna bring that up. So, this is the immediate aftermath of his whim. Chris Tarrant calls him the most amazing contestant that we've ever had, which is still true, even if he did cheat, but the producers, though, by this point, apparently all the way through the show were suspicious. So as soon as he finished, they checked his hair, his clothing, made him take his shoes off, didn't find anything. This is where it gets a bit sort of.
SPEAKER_01But again, though, like just to stop there. So Seemingly, it's so obvious that he's cheating by coffin. So why are they wanting to check his shoes and his hair and his you know?
SPEAKER_00Because they say in the production thing they don't know at this point how he's cheated, but they they know, they know that he's cheated. So halfway through the the episode, someone phones the I think it's the head of RTV and says, I think this guy's cheating, but we can't prove it. And the head of RTV or whatever says, You can't stop a show because you think someone might be cheating. Yeah, so it goes on, but there's this one producer who wants it stopped. So after Chris Tarrant says that he overhears the Ingrams arguing, and again, this has been span into something that I I don't think is it could have been about anything. He says his loud voice is a window shorts, and that they're arguing about it. Like he said, it could have been his wife saying, I can't fucking believe you mean like a right dickhead, like beating me to that. It could have been anything, couldn't it?
SPEAKER_01I mean, she she might even have been saying why you know that, and he says, No, I guess it. Well, you're a complete moron then, because what half a million changes our life, why did you risk that? You know, like I don't know, like I'm sure it'd be a wave of emotions, and I I also think because I I wouldn't want to win a huge amount of money publicly because I'd be thinking straight away, oh god, we're gonna get begging letters, we're gonna get people.
SPEAKER_00It's like that uh what's that MM line when it's all of a sudden I've got 90 some uh 90 dozen cousins. Hey, it's me. Yeah, yeah. Um but even during like I say, even during the second show, uh during the the thing, the producers were worried that uh were concerned that something you know underhand was going on.
SPEAKER_01And certainly that is consistent in their message in the documentary.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That they are as a team, and what and whether it's a narrative that they've said, like stick together on this, or whether it's genuine, I don't know. They are as a collective, they all seem to get the feeling something wasn't right.
SPEAKER_00And again, if you're gonna go for Major Charles Innocent in this, Chris Tarran, but I saw an interview on this morning just a few days ago, said, I had I just hope this Netflix documentary doesn't paint him to be an innocent because he's clearly guilty. I've gone through these tapes so many times, it's so obvious that he's guilty. So all the purchases.
SPEAKER_01But he didn't think anything at the time, did he?
SPEAKER_00At the time, he didn't think anything at the time, but he says his excuse, if you like, for that is that his job is to be a presenter, he's in the moment, he's got to be a sort of thing if you're not. Can you imagine if we turn around Sharagas like you just cheat, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01Just turn around, you cheating bastard. We we've got this half million pound, but we don't want to give you that because you're a cheat, Major Charles.
SPEAKER_00You're a cheat major Charles.
SPEAKER_01But he's he's the one person who you could argue is having the same experience as Major Charles. Obviously, the nerves the nerves are very different, yeah. But he's sat in this the same spot with the lights on him.
SPEAKER_00He says he didn't hear any cough him, didn't hear any call.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what I mean. He he's he's having the same experience. Now, if there is some kind of pre-agreement, obviously he's listening for something that Tarrant isn't, but Tarran, you know, the ultimate pro. I think the show had been on for three years by the time this episode airs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He's he's seen it all by then. So nothing to him in the moment stood out as you know, like a cough where somebody says, No. Like you think you think that would have made him think, Well, that's that's very unusual.
Producers’ Suspicion And Aftermath
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a bit like that uh blind eight thing where he goes, Well, you're not you're not actually gonna be a winner because you're a journalist, aren't you? Uh but anyway, so there's a there's a guy, uh another contestant uh obviously didn't win the fastest finger first, called Larry Whitehurst, and there's a brilliant documentary when it closes on his face, he looks really angry. Uh like you just want to do what I mean. No, I don't actually, but I like the idea of Zach Humour. He's like, yeah, furious. Um, and he says, and this is the first time we hear this man's name in this thing, uh, a guy called Tekken Whit Tekken Whitcock, which is an unbelievable what a name. Tekken Whitock, sorry. What a name that is. Yeah, it sounds like another sort of Poshboy, doesn't it? Tekken Whitok. He's he said at the time I knew that he was coughing during Ingram's run for the answers. So straight after the show, the producer said we need to check this immediately. So the production staff started going through all the you know the show and stuff like that. And this is when they came to the conclusion that this Tekken Whitok was coughing every single time in their words. The Major you know mentioned the right answer. And it was also noted that the young um Major's wife, Diane, also coughed on the 32,000 Craig David question. So believing that cheating had occurred, they phoned their production company up, uh withheld the winnings, suspended the broadcast, and reported the incident to the police. And the major himself was rang. Have you heard this phone call yet?
SPEAKER_01I don't know if I I think you've talked to me about it. I don't know if I've actually heard it.
SPEAKER_00But again, it mr. Nice but it's brilliant. So you could put this is a a little video on YouTube. You just put it in uh Major Charles told he's he's you know he's not won the million. He goes, I'm uh um there's no easy way to say this, Major. We think that they may have been cheating going on in this episode. Oh no dear. I can't believe it. That is so like and again, people are saying, Oh, if you'd have been accused of that and you'd not, you'd go mad. But not everyone is that character. I think I'd be I'd be shocked if I had won a million and then they said you aren't actually won it. I think at first I think, well, this is this is probably a uh you know a funny phone call.
SPEAKER_01This is just part of the protocol that you just while we clarify everything, like we we just need to Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't think you'd immediately go, you what? You what that warn up? Well yeah, you're fucking joking.
SPEAKER_01Wow, we're in London, weren't I?
SPEAKER_00We're in London, aren't we? Eh, we're in London. I don't think this is any evidence of guilt. Again, people putting things together, he's just saying, Oh, I I I I I that's a real shock. Do you know what I mean? Like you just like sort of like that.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, but obviously, you know, serving majors probably sort of part of his his craft is is to sort of rein in his emotions and and sort of process the situation. Like I again, like I don't see that as an admission of guilt.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree, I agree. Right, so on to the trial. So this was a four-week um trial uh to to to well basically obviously find out whether major fraud had been committed. Imagine how good this would have been to be on the jury, by the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's really interesting. I don't know why I said it like that. Restrained information. Really good.
SPEAKER_00Who are these ordinary boys these days? Um yeah, I think this would have been amazing to be. I'd love to be on the tr on the on the jury for this. I think this would be amazing. So the defence uh provides evidence claiming that Whittuck's cough was a result of dust allergies, as you mentioned, and a hay fever that he was suffering from. Whittock himself testified against the accusations. Footage showed that Whittuck was not coughing when he became a contestant after Ingram. So this is another thing that we should probably bring up is weirdly, the one after Ingram in the hot seat was Whittock, and he only got full, I think he only got a thousand pounds actually. Which is weird because this again.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, the requirement is the mastermind who's telling all the answers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and he gets in there and he yeah, he only gets yeah, he only gets a thousand pounds. So they say he doesn't cough in this bit. I I don't know, uh it's different though, innit? I I don't you know, anyway. So Ingram claimed the videotape of his appearance of a millionaire was unrepresentative of what he had heard and continue, and even to this day continues to say that it's been uh unfairly manipulated.
SPEAKER_01So the prosecution, by the way, took 13 hours to deliberate. So this wasn't like oh, we've got oh yeah, once you've heard all this stuff, it's obvious. They obviously were really unsure which way to go with this.
Whitcock Named And The Tape Review
SPEAKER_00Well, the prosecution alleged that of the 192 coughs recorded during the second night, 32 were from the contestants on the fastest finger first, you know, waiting to come onto the next contestant, and 19 of those 32 coughs were significant. I don't know what is a class as a significant cough. I don't know really what how you judge that. The prosecution said that these significant coughs were by Whitak when the quick um the correct answer had been spoken. I don't know. I don't know if that's in that's enough for me.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean to me, where where are these sort of even if, right, he is trying to influence him if if the major Charles isn't in on it, if if he sort of, whether consciously or subconsciously trying to sort of oh no, it's wrong. Unless they can prove some kind of pre-planned strategy, I'd I find it really hard to take the money off him.
SPEAKER_00Like Would they not as well? I mean, I don't I know this is a lot you know, we're talking like early 2000s here. Uh could they not surely if if this guy's in on it, I don't maybe they'd be too smart for this. Surely there's been like messages sent across, eh? That's what I mean, yeah. Like you're taking 250 grand. Yeah. And and if yeah, some delivering some money, or do you know what I mean? Like I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Say if if you were on there and someone and you got to know someone and you you quite liked them and and you said, Look, if if there's one where I think you're going the wrong direction, I'll I'll try and sort of do something subtle cough. Yeah. I just don't think that you could ever say, right, without any sort of trail of messages, or like you say, any sort of evidence in phone calls or whatever it might be, to come out with this really in-depth strategy of sometimes I'll cough twice if I think it's the second one, sometimes I'll cough if you're wrong, sometimes I'll call it the call.
SPEAKER_00This is what I don't get. This is what I don't get, right? I think if you were in the hot, this is where I'll I'll stick up for his wife in particular, because I think the the born to do it question where she coughs twice. I think if you were in the hot seat, I might do that as a almost like involuntary thing.
SPEAKER_01If you were saying I think it's A1 and I know you've got it wrong, I might go, ah Yeah, it's almost like uh it's an outburst of an internal like, I need to tell him what the answer is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So anyway, so Ingram, his wife and Whitick were all convicted, uh majority verdict, their offences, on uh April the 7th, 2003. They were uh they were all given prison sentences suspended for two years. Uh Ingrams were sentenced to 18 months, Whitzett was sentenced to 12 months, each fine£15,000 in order to pay£10,000 towards prosecution costs. Within two months of the verdict and sentence, the trial's judge has ordered the Ingrams to pay additional defence costs, which lead them altogether paying£115,000. Which is yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean it's it's crazy to me that so like kind of my my take on this, and obviously the the new documentary well it's not it's a drama, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00No, it's a drama, no, it's a drama, Michael Shepherd.
SPEAKER_01So that so that's gonna give us a sort of lean one way or another, anyway. So that's probably not a fair fair crack of a whip for the major. But I I think they had it in for him. I I can't say that there wasn't any influence through Coffin, but I can't see any clear evidence that there was. And to me, in that instance, it's it's innocent until proven guilty. I I can't I can't find enough to say he was absolutely cheating.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but we'll I'll tell you what, we'll get to the aftermath of the of the of the trial. Um he still maintains his innocence, as you said. Uh the major. After the TV scandal, he went on uh he tried different paths. He wrote two novels and appeared on reality TV shows such as uh The Games on Wiveswap, uh, which I think he had a wife swap with uh Jay Goody. Jay Goody on there, the major. Fucking hell, Major. I don't know that that I am not sure what you're talking about there, Jade. Um he later moved into making jewellery with his wife. In late 2003, Ingram and his wife, it's not this is not funny. Ingram and his wife were charged with further insurance and fraud offences. The jury was told that the millionaire case had left Ingram£400,000 in debt and that he had no job. Obviously, by the way, he's been kicked out of the uh the armour um as well because obviously he's been committed of you know a criminal offence. So the major said in court that his life had been a living hell since the show. Um he later said that my my family have been subjected to 60 acts of uh assault, aggression, abuse, and vandalism over the past five years, which I imagine is like people you fucking cheat, you know what I mean, to to the major, which is uncalled for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I think the whole thing is uh it leaves a bad taste in my mouth because Well, it's not over the morning.
Inside The Trial: Evidence And Doubt
SPEAKER_00Well, the Ingram's lawyer has revealed uh this was ri really recently as well, they are looking at appealing uh to try to overturn the guilty verdicts after 17 years. It'll come down to advances in science, which means it is now possible to work out if it was always Tek and Witter doing the coughing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and like I say, I I would like to know Clara sort of I I don't care if they coughed more on his questions, I care if if there's sometimes coughing to say is wrong and sometimes say is right, I I just that it's madness to me. I I don't know how you would say because I'm pretty sure and I might be misremembering it, but on the documentary, I'm pretty sure that there's a bit where they say this is clearly the cough that confirms his answer and it shows her coughing or or him coughing, and then it and then there's one where it says, and if you watch now, this is clearly the bit for to tell him he's gone down the wrong direction. I I just don't know how that holds up. What does that mean? If it's an odd number question, I'll cough if you're right. If it's an e-imagine him like getting his notes out of his pocket, like hold on, Chris, is this an even or an odd number?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, in defence of the major, in 2006, the journalist John Ronson, who covered the case uh for The Guardian, said he thinks they might be innocent because he said that he attended court every single day uh during the trial, and he observed that whenever someone said the word cough, somebody would cough in the gallery. James Plasket, a chess grandmaster who appeared on the fastest finger first first round several times, and he won 250,000 in 2006, said this was an example of cost caused by unconscious triggers. Basically, Whitak or others had simply coughed involuntarily when hearing the correct answer. Which again, I can see if you all sat in a room and I'm next to you and he says, I don't know, what was uh the first album by Blur, and it says leisure, which is the answer I got you you I don't I think it's just natural almost to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean obviously if if that stops when the next person's on, but but then I don't know whether you have the same instinct to want to shout it out to him and you kind of almost can't have to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_00This is where the yeah, this is the I don't I I think when he goes in, um I keep forgetting his name, what's his name, Whittuck. Um when he goes into the chair, why would he he won't be coughing because he can speak? So it's it's like an invite, it's like a so if someone's saying, What's the answer? Is it answer four? You're doing that, you don't have to do that because you can fucking give the answer if you're in the chair.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I and I imagine you get sort of pauses and water breaks, and like it's a different experience, isn't it? I I I reckon. I mean, we've we've caused ages ago in Limitly. We used to talk about people who then died. We've we've triggered the death of the Sega Chris.
SPEAKER_00The Sega guy died, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01There was a quicksand incident after we talked about Mr. Folly.
SPEAKER_00Mr. Follett sent as a quicksand incident as well.
SPEAKER_01I reckon I hope Tarant on his way out here. Is this what you're gonna have to do? No, no, no, I'm not gonna help that. No, I I hope we can contribute to getting the major his money, and and also if he is found innocent, he's owed some major sort of defamation. This is it last now. Are they all gonna cover it up?
SPEAKER_00I mean, has he got the lawyers? He's in so much debt.
SPEAKER_01He might have played the long game, like when when he was in court and he could have given an answer that got him off, like Willard was going so that like what they were thinking about 20 years' time we can get more money.
SPEAKER_00That's okay. It's a shame he didn't win, so he could have cured his wife cough. Um, do you think he'd have got away with it if he'd cashed out earlier? Let's say let's just say he's guilty. Let's say he's guilty for this for this bit. If he'd have cashed out of thirty two thousand, you think anyone would have raised any suspicions?
SPEAKER_01No, I think a lot of it is that that whether rightly or wrongly, and we can't say we weren't there, they seem to think something's not right with this guy. And for that reason, they've kind of got his card marked. And when he goes all the way And wins it. I think they see it as it's it's them against him now that we cannot let it be.
SPEAKER_00They feel like he's tricked, yeah. And the the the producers are fairly smug, I think, on the and maybe rightly so. Uh on the on the documentary that I watched, they're quite and you know it's great in court to know that yes, you are you know you have been proven right.
SPEAKER_01You are just think it's a weird thing to do to give to to not and maybe this time this is what they'll do, but the jury should be given the coughs in full, not not the ones singled out that that you want to imply mean something. That you know it's absolutely leading the witness, isn't it? It's like what you know, can we show you the coughs, but but just remove all the ones we don't think irrelevant and just play the ones that we think make him look guilty. Well, yeah, but then obviously he's gonna look guilty.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Do you do you think this this is?
SPEAKER_01I'm not happy with this. Like at the time I remember kind of not really knowing which way to lean with it, but when I've got some stuff for this.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Life After Verdict: Debt And TV
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I'm exactly the same. I thought it was. I mean, particularly when I think it's one thing to not give him the money, but to then take him through court and he has to pay all this money out. There's something that seems really hard to prove to me. He lost his job. You know, I he ended up watching.
SPEAKER_00I mean, come on, like how far do they want to drag him down? Do you think that though this might be because uh we lost the quiz not so long ago and it's stuck in your mind like because we thought we were cheapers, so you think like you might be like sticking up for the for the you feel like he, you know, you're putting yourself into the major shoes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're in the being wronged club, aren't we?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're in the wrong club. I I I when I first started watching this documentary and started doing research for this, which I've done a bit of, I was fully expecting to come on here and say he's fucking guilty, he's so guilty. I do think it's completely 50. I don't think um I would not say he's definitely innocent, but actually I think there is considerable doubt, and I think to take a million pounds off someone when you're not well we'll see, you know, maybe when the you know when the isolated coughs or whatever come out from the from the new court case, we'll maybe we'll know.
SPEAKER_01But I just think if the outcome had been we we can't in good faith pay him the million pounds, there's too much concern. You know, we we believe he got to 32,000 pounds without anything provable. We're gonna give him that as a gesture of goodwill. There'll be no court, you know, we'll take that almost out of the million, and there'll be a charitable donation. I don't know, I just think to to not pay him and then to take him through court for these things that are you know, and and when we weren't in court, unfortunately. I I doubt we'll be there for the new trial.
SPEAKER_00Uh I I would love to go to this. I hopefully I get sacked at work or something so I can spend my time going to this um instead. I mean, like I said, there's 192 costs this night, and they believe that 32 of those costs came from any of the 10 contestants waiting to come on.
SPEAKER_01It's not I don't know it's not jumping, and even though the documentary is heavily weighted to tell you that he's cheated. Yeah, because the other contestants give me that, and whether that's just me being a bit stubborn and defiant.
SPEAKER_00No, there's a there's another bit as well where one of the contestants said, I think it's this uh Larry, whatever he's called, who said he he saw it coming. Um he he he saw what were going on, should I say? He said that there were a really weird bit where he leans over and asks him the answer and he tells him what he thinks the answer is. Then he turns away and coughs. And what Whitick says in court is well, why would I cough in somebody's face? Which I think is very fair. He'd be mad if he went, What's the answer? Imagine that right his face. An awful thing today, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01So I mean we we might follow this up maybe when uh if there is a new court trial, we might we might who remembers the who remembers major charles episode.
SPEAKER_00Well, just before we we get off, this was in the immediate aftermath of 9-11. So it was two days recorded two days before. I'm not saying Ben Laden. So he was involved in that as well. I could think they got him for that as well. I was gonna say, did you think in Bin Laden? Like for oh, this is uh one injustice in the West too far. What he was a major Ingram fan like that. Yeah, yeah. I think he like might have watched it and weren't sure whether to make a call or not. And then that's it. That's it. We're not having this. Do you think they should have taken precedent above 9-11 coverage? I think rather than you know, wall-to-wall coverage of what happened after 9-11, it should have been George Bush going, ah, we're gonna get these guys that did this.
SPEAKER_01Cough cough on the answer once, shame on you, cuff on the answer again, shame on shame on you can't you can't get fooled again, you can't calf it again.
SPEAKER_00The brilliant brilliant uh George Bush quote where he says uh our enemies will not stop to find ways to harm us, and neither will we. So good.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I think this is as well, just just on this, because I I think I read they didn't show the this to me is is also kind of leading public opinion. So I think they showed the episode after directly after the documentary implying that he cheated. Am I right in saying that? The episode wasn't aired initially, was it?
SPEAKER_00Because wasn't aired, so bit later they can't have seen it unless he got like a copy unless Saram was sending him uh like a VHS tape across to Afghanistan or wherever it was. But um, yeah, this was never aired because obviously they were they were. Which again, no, to me it's never been aired, never been aired.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I I heard that it was aired after the documentary.
SPEAKER_00That's no, it's only been aired during the documentary of the footage. The the episode itself has not been aired.
SPEAKER_01Alright, that that's either two different versions.
Appeals, Audio Forensics, And Bias
SPEAKER_00Well well, that's what I read anyway. So, you know, maybe maybe like you say, two different versions, but I don't think it's ever been aired. It's only been aired via you know, when people have been talking about it.
SPEAKER_01Which I mean they missed the trick, aren't they? Because it's good TV, whether you whether you think he's guilty or not.
SPEAKER_00Tarant could come on before ago. We had the winner today who uh of this year who we felt was a bit of a cheat. Let's go through the episode. I've watched that. I mean I've already seen it now, isn't it? I won't watch it now, but you know what?
SPEAKER_01But if they dubbed like really ridiculous coughs over it as well.
SPEAKER_00C oh C major David Yeah, imagine that, yeah. Just kill cuts around and she's wearing a bow selected Craig David Master's wife. Um I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I'd I'd imagine uh what's his name? Willock or without like Tarant saying just shh can be quiet over there? Sorry, sorry, Chris. I was just saying I took her for a drink on Monday.
SPEAKER_00Sunday, she'd been making the better Wednesday. Uh I I don't know. I don't know. I'd like to I'd like to have been on this court case. I've never done jury service. I think it would be the greatest thing of all time to get jury service on there. Hopefully I get it for the next trial. Yeah, yeah, I'd like to be there. Yeah, don't think I will. Thank you for that, Liam.
SPEAKER_01I I know I say it every week, but that was we like to try and solve a mystery. I don't think we've solved it, but I'm certainly on the side of the major.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've got towards him getting his money, then no sweat. Well, if you know the major, I think he is active on social media to some degree, then please send him this and um yeah, just you know, and just let him know that things will probably get better.
SPEAKER_01If he wants to use anything we've said in evidence, absolutely, if we've raised anything in evidence.
SPEAKER_00If he wants to get us in court, can you imagine that? I I I've uh brought these two guys uh from the podcast Who Remembers? Why? Well listen to him and we'll be amazing, wouldn't it? Imagine his wife going, Oh, for God's sake. Right, Liam, thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, all good in the hood.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to Who Remembers. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us at WhorremembersPod at outlook.com. If you are a right wing fascist, you can find us on Twitter at Who Remembers Pod. Or if you're a wokener, you can find us on Bluesky at Who Remembers Pod. Once again, thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time for more remembering.