John Davidson - The Living With Madeley Episode

A notorious Tourette’s documentary set us up to laugh, then forced us to listen. We revisit John Davidson and Greg across decades of footage—1989, 2002, 2009—and unpack what’s changed, what hasn’t, and what it actually costs to navigate public spaces when your body and voice won’t always cooperate. Yes, there are moments of perfect comedic timing, but the humour sits beside risk, guilt, and grit: a dog smart enough to ignore dangerous tics, a teen who finds rhythm on the drums, a partner who learns to hear the intent under the static.

We talk about late-onset Tourette’s through Chopper’s story, challenging the myth that it’s only a childhood condition. We dig into benefits assessments that don’t quite fit neurodiverse realities, and how community spaces help even when they can trigger more tics. The most striking thread is how inclusion has evolved. Teenage Johnny ate alone because no one had the words; teenage Greg has classmates who shrug, smile, and carry on. That shift feels earned by visibility—brave, messy, human—and by people like Johnny who keep showing up.

What stays with us is Greg’s image of greaseproof paper: Tourette’s as a translucent layer between you and the world. Look through, not away. If you’ve ever laughed at a clip without thinking about what came after, this conversation will reframe how you react, how you wait, and how you make room for someone else’s pace. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs the perspective, and leave a review telling us the moment that changed your mind.

Transcript

Framing The Revisit And Warnings

SPEAKER_11 0:00

Hello and welcome to the podcast Who Remembers to UK Nestal to Podcast. In this episode, we are asking Who Members to Living with Mail episode from Johnny Davidson. I swear I can't help you. Multi-award winning in our own minds. Yeah, this was right back in series one we did this, and this was a documentary about John Davidson. Obviously, John Johnny has been in the the media recently for it for kind of I think it was the BAFTAs. So we might say we're we're cashing in on that controversy and sort of media attention. We we would say you know it's our civic duty to we we've created the the data, so we're gonna put it out there for you to enjoy it. Um Andrew is not a contributor tonight. It might be because he's not available, it might be because he will only talk about dyspraxia when it comes to disability. But yeah. This is Liam. I hope you enjoy what we did previously. Thank you. Let's get into the episode. This is episode twelve. Just, you know, we do upload it with uh I kind of tick the explicit box just in case there's uh any bad language in there. But on this particular one, you know, if you're offended by bad language, some of the clips, there is lots of bad language in there, so perhaps this is not the one for you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 2:10

Uh the actual the the video itself, which we've wealth watched, was uploaded to YouTube by the username Nobed Ten. So Yeah, that says it all. Yeah, it says it all, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:23

Hey Peter, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

John Davidson has a neurological condition known as Tourette syndrome. It's not known what triggers Tourette, but in its most severe form, it causes violent body movements and outbursts of obscene language.

What Tourette’s Is And Isn’t

unknown 2:44

Hey! Oh god.

SPEAKER_09 2:46

But yeah, this is I'm glad you picked this. I'm quite nervous almost about trying to cover this because it was such a big big I remember it being on and everything, and it was the first introduction for me to Tourette's The Illness. And it's a it's a dodgy ground this because you don't wanna, you know, we don't wanna make lie of the illness, but there's definitely some funny moments in it. Did you were it as good as you remembered it?

SPEAKER_11 3:07

No, and I don't know whether that's because we're doing this and obviously, you know, I can't find it quite funny, but now I d we don't want to upset or offend, so I f I've actually found it quite sort of touching, quite moving in places. Now some of the clips are undeniably really funny. Just just to fill in on the background on this then. So this documentary we said last week was 2002, it's not it's not actually, it's 2009, I Swear I Can't Help It was released.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Right.

SPEAKER_11 3:37

It actually what it does is we we see John and Greg in this, John Davidson and Greg's story. Well we've seen him in 2009, we're also revisiting some footage from a show, a documentary, The Boy Can't Help It, which had Greg and uh John, that was in 2002. Right. And also we've seen footage of John in a show called John's Not Mad, which was released in 1989.

SPEAKER_09 4:01

So I didn't know they were in the middle. I knew I've heard of John's Not Mad that that 1989. I think they just featured Johnny Davidson. I was wondering where they got the other clips from actually due to the documentary. I didn't realise they'd been featured in 2002 as well. I thought this were 2002, but yeah, that makes sense.

The Documentary Timeline Across Decades

SPEAKER_11 4:16

So so we're either seeing we're either seeing Johnny at uh forty-five or or at thirty-eight or at fifteen. Yeah. We see him at three different ages in his life. Yeah. And then with Greg, we either see him at eight or fifteen.

SPEAKER_09 4:34

Yeah, that's that that makes sense, yeah. Um it's difficult to do. I mean, we may as well go straight into it, aren't we? I mean, obviously if you're covering something like Tourette's, it's it's I mean, we'll just let David Johnny Davidson himself say what he thinks about the illness.

SPEAKER_10 4:51

If you ask anybody the question, what's the funniest illness of the funniest condition you've ever come across? Most people will see Tourette because it's bizarre, because it's like a wild madness.

SPEAKER_11 5:04

Yeah, and that, you know, we're gonna hear some clips throughout this thing, aren't we? And and they are funny, and I think this is the clips are funny, the illness isn't. We're not we're not in no way laughing at the people, but some of the things they say and some of the sort of moments that they say them you know, and and it the way it's edited again, I actually think it's a brilliant documentary, this. I know we've been critical of BBC at times, but I think this is really good. But what I like is that they obviously want to show the reality of it, so they almost want to show the extremes and the clips, but what it does mean is that you quite often get somebody trying to say something quite almost sentimental, and it's stop-ended by a ridiculous shout or a swear word, one end and then the other end. It's the the clips are quite odd.

SPEAKER_09 5:48

What not what struck me was the music, the music in the first bit is almost like a comp it's like a sitcom news like dun dun dun you know, the piano and stuff in the back. It's a really fancy sort of thing, and it's Johnny Davidson wandering around in a shop swearing, and you're thinking, Oh, this will be a laugh. And that bit is funny, to be fair, you know, because you never you're well, whoa, what's going on here? There's guys wandering around shouting at people or whatever. Then as the documentary progresses, because I watched it thinking, oh this would be a good laugh, actually, and then you start seeing the you know the then the the harsh side of it.

SPEAKER_11 6:19

So obviously it comes in, we we see these people, we see a few, you know, we see Johnny walking around the shop and he's he's shouting and he's swearing and for the most part people seem to know him and and not reacting. Um one or two heads turned. But the the moment that I I kind of found quite shocking and where the the reality of it hit me is when he takes his dog for a walk.

SPEAKER_09 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 6:41

And let me uh let me just play you what what he says when he's so he's got to cross a road as he's walking with his dog.

SPEAKER_10 6:48

This is a kind of next bit that I dislike is because I have like an urge to tell Tilly across the road when there's actual cars coming as well. But luckily she's well trained and that she's not gonna, you know, run across the road. But I get all these really unwanted thoughts in my head that she's gonna run, there's a car gonna knock her over and stuff, so I have to be really careful and really kind of concentrate this bit. Wait here, wait here, wait, come. Go in tell me no. Stay. Stay Gunnin!

SPEAKER_09 7:24

Wait. I uh wrote this clip down myself. Uh I I think it's absolut Do you know what absolutely blew my mind here is how he's basically telling his job to go across the road when cars are coming. But somehow he's trained the dog to know when it's his tick and when it's not. I find that absolutely incredible.

Laughing At Clips, Not At People

SPEAKER_11 7:43

Yeah, it's brilliant. I suppose you know dogs are very smart and they've picked up that he's sometimes gesturing but not moving and he and he sort of kind of goes to go and then stops. But yeah, the fair play to the dog.

SPEAKER_09 7:54

The dog is uh I think the dog Tilly, the dog's name, if anyone wants to uh I think it deserves a a shout out, uh, because I think it's one of the stars of the show. But yeah, unbelievable how he's managed to train that dog to that though. I mean I imagine that the first time.

SPEAKER_11 8:08

I I blew my mind that's and it's uh I mean there's there's bits where he's almost stepping out into the road, and I I don't know if because later on in it they talk about um we might play a clip from this, but they get a woman who comes in to talk about filling in forms for disability and stuff, and Yeah, so you know, are you hazard are you hazardous to yourselves and and Johnny says well I often fight the urge to put my hand on the hot plate in the kitchen. And and his mate who we're gonna be introduced to basically says, Yeah, when I'm around knives I I can get a bit stabby. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's genuinely frightening for for them for you know for themselves as much as anything. It must it it's appalling.

SPEAKER_09 8:45

The other guy um alongside Johnny Davidson we've mentioned is Greg Store, who is now uh fifteen, I think.

SPEAKER_11 8:52

Yeah, that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 8:53

Teenager studying for his GTSEs. I it goes back to him as an eight-year-old, and this is where for me the you you're looking at the documentary and you're thinking, oh yeah, it's you know it's a it's it's a it's a bizarre illness, um, as Johnny Davison says, like the a wild illness, and it's gonna be quite funny. But then you go to see Greg as a kid as an eight-year-old, and he's just screaming constantly, and you start thinking, like, wow, this is just like that must be exhausting. As he's just constantly screaming, this child, and he can't stop. And I think you can see in his eyes the fear of he doesn't know what's happening, and yeah, this is the first part of the documentary where I thought, oh, this is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_11 9:35

And I think I don't know what what you think. Should we play a clip of that? Not not because this bit's in any way amusing at all, but just to get the reality of that out there.

SPEAKER_09 9:43

Yeah, I think it's worth yeah, worth showing, because I think I think everyone thinks, I mean, there's even an episode of Cape Your Enthusiasm where they I won't say they mock Tourette's or anything like that, but they use Tourette's as like the joke of a punchland, oh, you've seen that scene where they're in the restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 9:56

And that's the side everyone knows are a Tourette's, and that's the side everyone wants to know a Tourette's because it makes it look fairly harmless and almost funny. But yeah, just have a listen to this.

Daily Risk: Johnny, Tilly, And The Road

SPEAKER_11 10:11

Yeah, and I find I found all this bit quite difficult, really. Um you know, we see we see Johnny as a as an adult. Yeah. And he, you know, he's he's highly functioning, he's I mean, as we're gonna come to later, he's you know, he's clearly not happy, and and it's it's again it's not it's not an easy life that he's had, but he's he's fine, he's he's operating. And then you see this this young child who Yeah I mean actually one bit it it kind of causes him to kind of have a fit.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, it cops.

SPEAKER_11 10:37

And he it collapses and he can only he can only communicate by blinking. And again there's another quite touchy moment in there where his his little brother comes over and sort of strokes him and lays next to him and Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's the reality of this for families.

SPEAKER_09 10:52

But then we see John, it goes back to Johnny because it interact it uh it goes from one like to Johnny to to Greg. We see Johnny uh an organised meeting with other Suret sufferers, and he's over the moon, isn't he, Johnny? You can see it's a massive thing for him. Uh that you know he's got the he org he's organized has he organized it in fact.

SPEAKER_11 11:09

Yeah, he uh he runs uh an organisation that gets them together, he organises days for kids and adults and both, which again, yeah fair play to him. And by the way, throughout both of this, all this stuff, you know, we might be playing a few clips that that maybe people might find funny, but the these two guys are absolute heroes, aren't they? Both of them, you know.

SPEAKER_09 11:28

And it's easy to say that we're not just saying this in like uh oh let's all be wholesome and stuff. I come out of this documentary expecting to find it funny, and I came out of like genuine ad admiration for for the main two guys involved in it, and and the other guy we're gonna meet in a minute uh at this meeting. Uh it's just yeah, her a horrendous it's a funny illness because of the things that they say, but it's horrendous to to actually imagine living with it. There's a there's actually a good bit here which sort of sums up the the comedy of the uh of the illness, but also you know, something that I can sort of relate to here. This is you know when he's um doing some meditation at the meeting? Yeah, I know exactly what you say. I've got it down. Yeah, so he's doing some meditation uh to try and help, I presume with the with the Tourette's and stuff. And I'm just gonna play the clip here.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

John's Tourette Weekend gets underway with a relaxation session.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Picture in your mind a beautiful green field. Think what's the length of the grass that you're standing in? Is it long grass? I'm upped in my knees and fucking cow park.

SPEAKER_09 12:29

And I I could sympathise with this to some degree. I suffer from anxiety and I've seen a few psychologists and done guided meditations like what you see here, and I've done these sort of things. And it's someone basically tell you to relax in a quiet setting. And it's almost like don't think of a pink elephant. I it's almost sort of if someone says to me when I'm trying to relax, you've got to relax now, if every if you relax my first thing that comes into my head is like, if someone said to me, picture in your mind a field, I might think I'm up to my knees in fucking cow park. I wouldn't say it, but it might go through my head. The difference is Johnny has to say it but what what this stuck out to me this scene was I've thought things like this when I've done similar sort of techniques with my own mental illness, it's just that mine stay in my head, and I imagine everybody can relate in some way with the outburst. It's almost like you're in a room with someone. Don't say that. I mean, can you imagine the pressure?

SPEAKER_11 13:24

Yeah, and and and this is it, I can't say it. He just has to say it and Yeah, it must be awful. I I mean I was thinking you know, we we can't psychoanalyse him because we don't have the ability to do that. But I was just wondering to myself what are these things that they think but have to say, are they things that they're almost trying not to think, so they're almost thinking what's the worst thing that I could say and then that becomes the thing that they've have to say. I I don't know, it's a strange one.

Childhood Strain: Greg At Eight

SPEAKER_09 13:57

I don't think so. I think it's a s case of you know you've got this illness and you know you could say anything at any time that could really offend someone. It's like me and you doing this podcast now, me thinking I don't know, if you've put weight on something and me saying uh Wish you haven't, by the way. You haven't? I saw you last week, fine. No way you're saying it. Is that what this is about? This is yeah. No, but if you did anyway, and I think you know he's put weight and he's put weight, and please don't say it, please don't say it. Because he knows that he can't stop himself saying something. I've seen another documentary uh about Tourette's where it's another guy who meets Johnny Davidson, funnily enough, uh and he says that when he goes to meet him, the first thing Johnny said was, You're a bald fucker. Calls it straight out like this guy, and he's like, Whoa, hang on. But then he said the guy realises that that's what he says to people. And Johnny says in says in this that he doesn't often know what he said. To him it's just like a sneeze. He doesn't know what's come out of his own mouth.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 14:52

It's just like he knows his and then he says sometimes, I mean, we might get onto it later on, but he says that sometimes he's sat at home and he feels guilty and he doesn't know why, but it's because he doesn't know what he said throughout that day to people.

SPEAKER_11 15:03

It's it's awful, isn't it? And we we can't you know, this is a a light entertainment podcast. We can't kind of get as horrific as the the illness is, we we don't pretend to be experts on it, we're almost just thinking out loud, aren't we?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yeah, yeah, completely.

SPEAKER_09 15:17

And this is this is why we wanted to cover it, because it's such a shocking illness in the sense that it I mean, like Johnny says in the first thing, it's the wild man illness because it's something that you can't comprehend really what it must be like.

SPEAKER_11 15:30

So yeah, and and in this meeting in this club where where he's doing his meditation, we've got his friend has come as part of this club that he's arranged called Chopper from Newcastle. And what um John explains to us is that they they love being around each other because you know they know they both know exactly how it is and they have quite similar ticks and they say almost similar things, they shout quite loud. But what he also says is they can set each other off. But a woman called Heather Smith comes to help him with with the concept of filling out forms for disabilities, what you can claim for, how severe it is, and whether that means you're different sort of point scores. But it it actually says she she's probably had no training, she might not even have met people with Tourette's before. And I found this quite interesting because she she ha she feels she has to respond to all their tics and I don't know whether that's interesting or not. But I don't know whether that's the right thing to do or not. What I mean by that is that I'm gonna play you a couple of clips here where we we just see that quite often the people around them, when they're ticking who know them, almost don't seem to respond to it, or or not unless they do. Whereas this this woman doing this this uh course she feels like she has to respond to every tick seemingly.

SPEAKER_06 16:41

I you know, I I Googled your neurological condition and there wasn't a lot out there that actually helped at all. Fuck all the time. Absolutely. And these founders advisors like were asking really nosy questions. They're looking at points that you score for what you can't do. But they've taken away some of the easier points. Absolutely. Do you want to leave that with you so that you can have a look at it?

SPEAKER_04 17:08

You're very helpful.

SPEAKER_06 17:09

Then there's more on. Did you mean it or not?

SPEAKER_11 17:13

Um yeah, I think that was what's interesting in that is that you know you you kind of have one almost quite aggressive take fuck off nosy.

SPEAKER_09 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 17:22

And then the next one, you're very helpful.

SPEAKER_09 17:24

And then you look at Chopper's face when he says it, and she says, Did you mean it? And he he doesn't know. Because to him it's a sneeze, he doesn't know what he's saying, it's just thoughts coming into his mind. Thoughts go past all our heads, we don't we don't we don't sort of fix I know like again, going back to like having anxiety and stuff, what they try and sort of teach you is let the the thoughts flow by. We all have thoughts that we don't react to. It's up to us to cling on to those thoughts. These this is just involuntary from from Chopper. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 17:50

And just just to finish on another one that I think is fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 17:54

It's arguable that benefits-wise, you should be getting the maximum benefits because at any given moment you might need a minder. But you might not Arthur Bailey!

SPEAKER_11 18:03

Yeah, so that you know, that is the bit that you can't you can't not find that funny.

SPEAKER_09 18:07

Um I mean everyone in the room laughs at that, don't they, to be fair.

SPEAKER_11 18:11

Yeah, and that's it. I you know, some of them are are just a kind of a a burst out of a swear or something like that, but some of them are response and some of these they're brilliant, they're almost like the the the quickest one-liners you'll ever hear, some of them.

Community, Meetups, And Shared Relief

SPEAKER_09 18:26

Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I mean I found it in Chopper's really interesting character in this because what I found really interesting is that he started late for him, didn't it, Tourette? Like Johnny David's had it, as far as we know, since birth or a young age. Obviously, Greg, we've got footage of him at seven year olds. Chopper says he didn't actually get Tourette's until he was 33-34, which proper surprised me.

SPEAKER_11 18:46

Yeah, I found that quite scary. He said he was 30, yeah, around about 33.33.

SPEAKER_09 18:50

Do I play a clip of it, in fact? I've got to go.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yeah, okay, let's hear him explain it, yeah. Probably about 33-34, and I was sitting at home watching television one evening, and my head just jumped to the side, and I thought, hang on a minute, what was that? It's quite odd. The next thing that came along was um I was out in the car with my my two boys and we were driving around a car park, and just as I was turning the wheel going around the corner, I went I made a sort of snorting noise like a pig. That's very odd what's caused that. Um and it quite quickly went from that to the stage where I was having physical ticks, sort of my my my chin was jerking, my head was jerking, and it sort of deteriorated over the next year and a half um to the the the stage that I'm at at the moment.

SPEAKER_11 19:31

I found that terrifying really, that that this can kick in at any moment. And I've actually looked into the the causes of it. We're thirty, you know, just over thirty years on from the the first documentary on this, and we still don't have any idea what causes it or why. I mean it just says possible genetics, possible uh surroundings, and I don't know, it seems seems mad to me that somebody can almost develop this over eighteen months in the mid-thirties. So yeah, and and one thing it says actually about um Tourette's is that one in ten sufferers have an uncontrollable urge to swear. Now, obviously you know Johnny's a a kind of broad Scotsman who I think it it it almost works with him. I think again what's quite sad, it now works with himself wrong, but he he seems quite he doesn't seem offended by the words that he says. Whereas when we cut back to young Greg who's aged uh seven or eight, this is him explaining to us about how it makes him swear, and again it's heartbreaking really.

SPEAKER_08 20:31

Sometimes it says swear words like um you're fucking gonna sometimes I don't like that one at all. And sometimes it says shut up, you idiot And I if we do those I feel like just screaming my head off and do all the stop.

SPEAKER_11 20:59

And then we cut to uh Johnny actually in a pub and he's there with I mean basically he's there and he and he's he's ticking and he's swearing and and it's interesting actually, because I I thought well nobody's reacting so it's fine for him. But I think he he says something again quite you know you think, oh yeah, that's right. He says, People tell me no one's bothered but it doesn't matter to me, I just don't want to do it. And and I think you know it's quite it matters to him that he's doing it, even if everyone's ignoring him it doesn't matter, it's it's a big part of him.

SPEAKER_09 21:29

I think w one of the good things that uh Chopper's got going for him, he's got a girlfriend called Jo, who he meant uh met on a Tourette for him, uh because her son has Tourette's which is obviously great for him and uh obviously she understands the illness as well.

Benefits Forms And Tick Triggers

SPEAKER_11 21:41

Yeah, and just sorry, just just on there 'cause I think this is another good example of this, and uh again it it's funny, but it it's not laughing at Chopper, but this this sort of sums up the flow of the documentary. So we we we hear his girlfriend talking about him and and you know, again says this quite quite touching thing when he says it It upsets him more than anybody else when he's doing it. And anyway, I I'll play the clip, but this this is you know, this is not I've not cut it this way. This is the way the clip is bookended again by the reality of it. These symptoms of Tourette's either side of this quite sort of moving moment. But again, it it brings humour to it, but I'm not really comfortable with the fact that it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

You just think it's not him, it's Mr. Tourette's in it, not him, because I know he doesn't think that, you know, so I'm a rapist.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Have you did you put a bow there?

SPEAKER_04 22:30

If he ticks I love you, or you'll shout to the kids, I love your mum, and things like that, or you're beautiful, and then you think he was thinking that he meant that jab time!

SPEAKER_09 22:42

Yeah, and this sort of brings me on, actually, because straight after this we talk we talked to Johnny about he can't get a girlfriend. Um it's really sad this scene. I think it's probably the saddest scene in it. Because in his own words, he he says he can't get a girlfriend because he might spit in her face or tell her to fuck off. And I think this scene is genuinely, genuinely upsetting because he wants kids, he talks about you know how he's he's got siblings who've got kids, and he just wants that. And I think this brings us to the line for me that makes this documentary so fascinating and the illness so fascinating. Because in one line we get something that is moving and heartbreaking, and then we get something that's just funny and bizarre, which whatever way you look at it, it is I laughed, and I'm sure you do, but I think you know what I'm gonna go with. This is Chopper talking about Johnny's hopes of getting a girlfriend.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

I think it's difficult for anybody who's late 30s, early forties to find a partner, and it's so much more difficult when you've got the problems that John and I have got. But the sort of personality that John's got, he would certainly make a a a a lovely partner for somebody because he's so kind and caring and considerate, not unlike myself. If he could meet somebody who could look beyond the the Tourette's and symptoms, that he would be able to find somebody that he could kind of get on with and settled anyway. Another beam.

SPEAKER_11 24:08

Yeah, I did laugh. Again, uh not laughing at at the them, but the illness does seem to say things that sometimes that make you funny, and yeah, you're right, that completely sums it up because that's you know, that's genuine praise for you know, he's he's kind of best mate, and he's it it's really heartfelt, and he he's saying what he means and then he finishes on another gay man, and yeah.

SPEAKER_09 24:29

This is it, it's such a nice speech from him, and it ends with that, but again, I think that's something that we could all do, but we don't think about it, but we don't know the thoughts that are going on in his head. If I'm praising you at one point, I might be thinking in my head, he's a wanker. I might I won't mean that, but it might be something that if you're praising someone that much, is the almost like the devil saying, Oh no, he's not. And but you can't stop that from coming out. It's it's so but I don't know, I think it's almost threats to me, it's obviously much more complex than this, but it's almost like the pink elephant theory or whatever we whatever it is, take it to its most extreme lengths.

SPEAKER_11 25:03

Yeah, yeah. And like you say, actually, the the bit that's kind of sat next to that with John talking about how you know somebody feels lonely, feels left out, and he he wants kids, that again, that's that's really, really tragic that bit, and that's uh yeah, I did find that quite moving that.

SPEAKER_09 25:16

So I'm gonna uplift it a little bit if you, because we've got we go back to Greg then, the the teenager, and he's learning the drums, isn't he? Yeah, remember that.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah, yeah.

Late-Onset Tourette’s: Chopper’s Story

SPEAKER_09 25:24

And I've seen a documentary since this uh of Greg where he's he hosts with Johnny Davidson a Tourette sort of retreat thing for people. And he's almost sort of I won't say he's cured his Tourette's, but he's in such in a much, much better place than he is in this documentary. And I think his progress, because obviously we've seen we've played the the the clip of him as a kid screaming, you can see he's sort of getting to grips with it in this as a teenager. Unbelievably eloquent man, by the way, a young man. And then in the other one that I've seen, he's sort of on top of it and he's leading workshops and he's still playing the drums and learning people how to play the drums and stuff. And I think all three people in this documentary are success stories. Yeah, definitely, yeah. I think John John's got a job, he's got a house, he's got friends. Chopper's got a wife, he mentions he's got uh his girlfriend mentions uh kids, I don't know if there is, or you know, from the last relationship or whatever, but he's l obviously living with kids. Greg's a 15-year-old lad having this normal school life with friends, obviously a really bright lad. And as sad as some of the things are, I think it's quite an uplifting documentary because I think they all overcome they're all overcoming this bizarre illness to become successful in their own ways.

SPEAKER_11 26:38

Yeah, I I completely agree with that, but I think this is the moment for me where the the tone changes or at least becomes much more obvious. So for me from this point on what what we see in the rest of the documentary, and we're you know, this is thirty-seven minutes in now of of a sixty-minute documentary, and I think this is the particularly powerful bit this last twenty minutes, and and what it really demonstrates is the the difference now as to so so Greg's life at fifteen compared to what Chopper's was at fifteen. And I think as much as I you know I really sympathise for Greg and it and it you know he's been through so much I w I wouldn't even pretend to understand it, but he's he's you know, he's got a group of mates around him, his mummy dad are are understanding and accepting, he's he he's getting on with his life, he's gonna sit his GCSEs. I I think it it goes back to Johnny when he was young and it basically said when he was fifteen, nobody had heard of it. He used to have to sit and eat his dinner on his own because people didn't know what he was doing or why.

SPEAKER_09 27:40

Well yeah, they looked him in a cupboard, didn't they? Because he was not.

SPEAKER_11 27:43

Yeah, the I mean he's you know, he he says he he had no friends, he got picked on and and there's a you know, again another really sad clip where he says he it's a young Johnny Davidson when he's he's fifteen saying he feels like everybody hates him. And again it it cuts back to Johnny you know, as as a grown up as an adult just thinking back to to those years and he he basically says he wouldn't want anyone to go through that and he Yeah, it's it's it's really sad.

Swearing, Guilt, And Social Cost

SPEAKER_09 28:09

Yeah, it is, and you know, we like I say, he he talks about how hard it was and this obviously something that really hurt him and stuff. What I'd say is a little bit down of hims in in himself. I mean he talks about how he's not been able to achieve a lot of things that he wanted to achieve because of this, and I I can't imagine what that must be like to have something that that affects your life this much. But I think he's achieved a huge amount, and maybe the best thing I can say to him is that the stuff he's done for Tourette to raise an awareness, he's been on every documentary, he's not scared to to go on and say, Look, I've got this disease. He obviously is not happy with having it, and he's obviously not comfortable with going into public places having this illness, but he wants to and I think the stuff that he's done for it has helped people like Greg, surely. Yeah, you know, to support the things that he's done as a kid. And you know, it's it's it's it's it's a really, really I came into this documentary, I'm not gonna lie, thinking, I bet this is some really funny things, and I came out of it sort of like that is proper touching, like a really, really good moving documentary. But I'm gonna go back here if that's alright with what John says at the beginning almost, where he says it is a funny illness, and this is just him talking about playing Sherards.

SPEAKER_10 29:22

But there are also some positives that we can have a laugh about, especially when we're having pub quizzes and stuff at the centre. Something like playing Sherards. I'm never ever the person that stands up and has to act out what film it is a writer, because I kinda keep it to myself. You know what? I'll stand up and I'll say, JOS! And I'll go, right, that's my turnover.

SPEAKER_11 29:40

To carry on this theme of again where I think the last 20 minutes goes, is we you know, we get this juxtaposition, we get one of them against the other at the age fifteen, how different their lives are. And we see Greg's friends and you know they're all they're all understanding, they know what Tourette's is, they they don't blame him for it, they you know, they say we don't laugh, we ignore it, unless every now and again he finds it funny, in which case we'll all start laughing. But then it cuts back to Johnny again, age fifteen. And this is a guy who says he's got no mates, he blamed himself for his mum and dad splitting up. You know, his mum comes in and says, We didn't really understand it, we just used to tell him to stop it. She said, which we know in in hindsight is ridiculous, but it's possible. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't understood at the time, was it? And uh John Johnny basically tells us now, uh kind of as he is in in the later stages, that he gets on better with his family now, but but even now they still just want him to kind of just just get on with things. They don't want to discuss it or talk about it. It's it's a sad life he's lived really, Johnny, and fair play to him, he's he's still going strong seemingly. But his mum moved away when he was young and he and he kind of he says he he almost adopted this foster family. He he went round to see uh a a woman called Dottie and she was actually she was ill at the time.

SPEAKER_09 30:55

First thing uh first thing she Johnny said to her is, ha ha, you're gonna D Yeah, I know, yeah, and it's like it's not and she's laughing about it obviously because she knows as well. This is the scene as well where he I mean I don't know if we can play this and it works, but basically they're in a supermarket and uh Dottie is talking about Johnny and he punches her in the face.

SPEAKER_10 31:18

Oh Dotty Smack! Oh you're right, you're right, just give his a minute Yuckie, mm-hmm. Can I catch your nose?

SPEAKER_11 31:29

Yeah, I mean I I'm not sure the the audio will translate to that, but that is again that's another one of those shocking moments where you see, you know, yeah, we we we see these things that are funny and this, but I mean that you can see how devastated he is by it. It's it's it's awful, isn't it? But he can't do anything about that.

SPEAKER_09 31:45

Yeah, and this is the thing we with Johnny, and and I think maybe the reason Greg in later life has sort of uh dealt with it i i in in in the way he has, like I said, the same documentary since and he seems to a lot better than he does even in this documentary, uh handling the d the illness. I I think Johnny is so aware, or he doesn't want to upset anybody. And this must come from his school days where people have told him he's a freak and an idiot and all this sort of stuff, and no one wanted to speak to him. So he is aware of what whereas like as you've said, Greg, his friends are all accepting stuff, and that must affect him. And I think it's really good that Johnny's got this support family, um, like I say, like a foster family almost who absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_11 32:29

I mean it says he's he sees him three nights a week and they seem absolutely sound and they get on with him and but again, you know, then then we cut back to Greg, and again it's no no dig at Greg. I just think times have changed, hopefully, and hopefully they continue to change.

SPEAKER_09 32:42

But he's I'd I'd argue that Johnny's been part of that change. I think that first thing the first thing anyone probably really knew about Tourette's was the 1989 documentary, before my time, to be fair. The first thing I knew about Tourette's is probably this documentary, to be fair. Yeah, I I would agree with that, yeah, definitely. And he keeps coming on to these documentaries, he must have been on four or five that I've seen now. And he's quite clearly not comfortable with having Tourette's. But he's willing to come on for the greater good, basically.

Love, Partners, And Vulnerability

SPEAKER_11 33:07

It's a good point, yeah. I mean, did did you know actually he got an MBE for his uh his efforts towards understanding of Tourette's by died in 2019?

SPEAKER_09 33:15

I didn't know that, and I'm glad that because he is quite down on himself, I think, and again this possibly stems back to what he was told as a as a child when he were having these ticks and stuff. Because I do think he doesn't realise how well he's done.

SPEAKER_11 33:30

Yeah, I you know, I'm I wouldn't want to patronise him, but yeah, I mean I've got massive respect for him. I think it's amazing what he's done, and yeah, to to think he's it's been recognised kinda by Well who who gives you an MBE? I'd aren't saying now. Is it the Queen? Wonderful she does it, which is some somebody somewhere anyway, but we'll find out when I get one for this podcast.

SPEAKER_09 33:52

Yeah. Yeah, I like it like he said it as if like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

With him with MB And then at this moment we're we're kinda drawing towards the end.

SPEAKER_11 34:06

Johnny goes, his uh his kind of adopted foster family uh I mean they're not really, but the families that that have taken him on almost they take him to go and see Greg, so we actually see John and Greg together. We're in touch, but they've not met in four years. But a bit alike, I don't know if you picked up on it, is where Greg takes Johnny up to uh his bedroom to show him the drum set and show him playing the drums. And what I love there is the the look of very genuine pride on John's face when actually he's really good, Greg. Yeah. He's got a really sort of proud smile that actually, do you know what he's he's great and he's and he's doing it and it Yeah, I just I find that a really nice moment that he's gonna be.

SPEAKER_09 34:44

I'll play this actually from Greg where he talks about his relationship with John.

SPEAKER_07 34:47

I think a lot of people will look at us too um and think people see Tourette's swearing. And yes, John does swear, and I my my ticks make um me swear as well. But um that's not what all that we do. We see past that, it's like uh there's us, and then the Tourette's like a layer around us, a bit like a layer of greaseproof paper. You know, it's it's a translucent. You can see the person behind it, but you can't see their features, you could just see their outline. Uh if you imagine the like the grease proof paper as the Tourette's, that's what it does, that's what I feel it does. And people see, they see the greaseproof paper. Me and John, we can in a sense remove the the greaseproof paper, take it away so we can see the person underneath.

SPEAKER_11 35:46

I think a nice way to end this, I don't know what you think, would be just to play the clips of both of them right at the end and how how they are kind of doing and dealing with it.

SPEAKER_09 35:54

Yeah, I've written that down myself actually to to play what what they go out with because it's quite an uplifting end really.

SPEAKER_07 36:00

I know I will have it for the rest of my life and it will always bother me. And that is really one of the only constants I can really keep. Yeah, it's it's very hard-hitting. You know, and you think, right, hey yeah, I've got this thing. I've got it for the rest of my life. Yeah, I can't get rid of it. I just think, right, I'll go up with it.

Drums, Growth, And Hope For Greg

SPEAKER_10 36:22

When I'm feeling down and I'm feeling a bit shy and a bit sorry for myself, I do stop myself and think, well, look what I've look what I've achieved. I've got my house, I've got my garden that I love. Eh, I've got my job, I've got my dog. And I think really to be honest with you, I think I've actually got a good quality of life really.

SPEAKER_11 36:49

So that was episode twelve. Uh I swear I can't help it. Um what did you think? I know it's it's been a difficult one, hasn't it? Because we you know we we are doing this to be entertaining and hopefully at times funny, and that it's a difficult one to approach that.

SPEAKER_09 37:03

Yeah, I thought it were absolutely phenomenal. I've not watched it, I don't think, since the uh since it since it was released, and I advise absolutely everybody to watch it. It really is a great documentary. Did you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_11 37:14

Yeah, I I enjoyed watching it. I think it's you know, yeah, there are funny bits in there, but it's also you know, it does make you think it does make you think that people out there are struggling and that yeah, you know, you might come across someone with Tourette's and how how you could deal with that. So yeah, you know, without getting too ph philosophical, I think it's definitely a good watch for uh for anybody, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

If you or someone you know is affected by Tourette's and would like details of information and support, visits bbc.co.uk slash actionline. If you don't have access to the internet, you can call the bbc action line in confidence. On 08006, 06. Lines are open 24 hours a day. Calls are free from a landline, but mobile operators will charge for these calls.

SPEAKER_09 38:00

Thank you for listening. You can find it at WhoRemembersPods.com. If you are a five, you can find it on Twitter who remembers podcasts. Or if you're a vocal note, you can find it on Twitter at WhoRemembersPods. Once again, thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.