When Geri Halliwell Left the Spice Girls and Killed Girl Power

We revisit the day Geri Halliwell left the Spice Girls and ask whether Girl Power cracked or evolved, tracing the group’s rise, the shock split, and the culture that made five personas iconic. Along the way we compare solo careers, sift through the rumours, and get to the bottom of why Ginger Spice hung up her Union Jack dress. 

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Spice Girls Mania

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Who Remembers of UK Nostalgia Podcast? And in this week's episode, we are asking who remembers when Jerry left the Spice Girls and killed Girl Power?

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Let me body down and wind it all around.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I uh Did you kill Girl Power? I I added that in right at the end. Kill girl. The person who asked us for this, Mr. Noel Eggmans, um, asked us to do The Spice Girls, and he said, You've got to call it about girl power. And I said, Well, it's just about Jerry Leaving, because privately me and you, Liam, are doing this as a homage, aren't we, to Mr. Hal Stewart, um, who some people listening to this podcast may know recently left the Sheffield United Way YouTube channel after 25 years of service, um, and we're doing this as a as a bit of a homage to that.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

If you if you've never heard of him and you think, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

But yeah, but we we have hundreds and thousands of listeners, and not all of them are gonna have watched Sheffield United Way.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, and it's not all true, is it? I think we have tens of listeners, and they probably all have watched Sheffield United Way.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Well, you know, if you're not about it. But anyway, it was a sad day to see the great man uh pack it in.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

And very much I mean we we didn't by the way just decide when how made his announcement we're gonna have to do Jerry. Like this has been on the radar for a while, but it seemed quite seemed quite appropriate for a sad time when an i icon leaves a a powerful movement.

The 90s Pop Landscape And Impact

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, well, yeah, well, an icon leaves uh you know a a global changing thing, then you've got to talk about it. And this is our homage to Mr. Hal Stewart. Bit of background on the Spice Girls, Liam, before we get into it. They these were a genuine phenomenon. Um I think if in Britain, if you talk about the nighties, you're talking about you're talking about Oasis, the Spice Girls, and Shed Seven, aren't you? The big three.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Oh yeah, and not necessarily in that order either, but yeah, no, that's where you go to. Um I I would argue there'd be Shed Seven fans human right now. But I would argue Spice Girls were the biggest out of three, to be honest. I think you'd probably think Oasis, but in the No no no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I I agree. I think Oasis saw more albums. Worldwide, Spice Girls were far bigger because Spice Girls proper broke America.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

But I'm not even talking like legacy, I'm just saying in the moment the explosion of the Spice Girls was just absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Well, in 1997, um Spice Girls put a single out which will have been what were they Christmas number one in 97? Will it have been too much, too much of something? It's bad enough do we come on to do? No, that was the year before. Anyway, they put that out, and Oasis were gonna put all around the world out, and Oasis moved their schedules. They didn't want to go up against the Spice Girls. Yeah, probably probably probably the right decision. I think I think if yeah, if the if those two two bands are releasing singles on the same day in 1997, Spice Girls are getting to number one, and Oasis once again losing the war.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Musically, Oasis are better, but but that's not what this is about, is it? That pop stars don't have to be the best singers or the best artists, and yeah, they're just it were huge at every magazine, every newspaper, every every news.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

When did you first hear about them? I I want to ask you that question actually. When did you first hear about because to me they just sort of they were just there one day?

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, so they obviously they came out with a which I I realised really early on as well, by the way, that the wannabe music video was done in one take, which sort of seemed to become a a bigger thing a couple of years after the event. But yeah, I remember watching that and thinking it's not really for me, but this is quite impressive. I and I suppose it is for me in a way that obviously Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, she's my favourite.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

I was gonna ask you what your favourite was, actually. Is it this is weird this is what my favourite was. Who were your favourite what's your flavour? Um my uh my flavour um was definitely Jerry as a teenager, which um I can only put down to the size of her bosoms. I think that's fair as a as a growing lad. Uh back it but in hindsight, I do think uh Miss Bunton was was nicer. Oh really? But that's just for me. That's just for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

I don't I don't I mean we've stooped low already. I'm not sure we should start with the colour. We've gone we've gone low.

Personas, Marketing, And The “Spice” Names

SPEAKER_01 5:15

We've got we've gone lads. We're bringing back the lad era, that's what we're doing. That's what Hal and uh Nick and Ollie would want, isn't it? So absolutely, yeah. Well Nick used to start his thing, didn't he? Lads, lads, lads. So that's what we're doing in homage again to that. Ollie came along, and then Ollie came along and it, yeah, in and it it became um more like a an unrounded show, but more highbrow show.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Uh but yeah no, I don't think we should I don't think we should rank. I think you can pick your favourite, and then I think the other thing I would say is who did you think was your the best singer? Your f well not even the best, but your favourite singer out of the group. It was Mel C. Yeah, I think it has to be, doesn't it? Yeah, but it's certainly not watching. Emma Bunton's solo stuff was okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, some of her solo stuff's not bad. I think as well, decent voice.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Mel C could be a bit a bit screechy on some of the really high notes, but at the same time, if I was sort of ranking all the hits of their solo, Mel C's would steal the sort of top I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

But this is the fact, right? Hear me out here, Liam. I think the fact that there was five distinct characters, and they were like cartoon characters in a way, in that they all had their own distinctive look and personality. Well, let me get onto that in a minute, Liam. But you think of other pop bands from the era like Take That, E17, All Saint, Shed Seven, uh, Westlife, Boy Zone. Every other pop band could be a legitimate quiz question where you say, Can you name all five members?

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Yeah, we've I mean we've sort of done it as a bit of a joke about Boy Zone as to which one is Orange and That's Take That.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

You've even you can't even get the name, that's that's what I mean. Yeah. Boy Zone was Keith was Duffy and Keith Duffy, Stephen Gately, Rowan Keaton, and that other guy. But I genuinely on a quiz I'd awful that we don't know his name again. But Westlife, you've got Brian McFadden, and that's a probably what's his name? Egan? Not John Egan, what's he called? Egon. What's he Egon Spencer? No, there were Westlife was uh Shane was the little guy. Yeah, but can you get the full names? I bet you know this is what I mean. The spice girls, you're gonna know the full names.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Oh yeah, yeah. No, definitely not. I mean, even all saints, like they they were sort of seen as the the cool version. Yeah, the cooler version, I think, is fair to say. But even even in them, like the obviously there was the Appleton sisters.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

And that's it. Melbourne her name Shamaz. Shaz Shaz. Chazne, Shemaz. Um uh take that as the the closest one, but I still think it's a legitimate quote quiz question because people might say how it are.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Yeah, they made them so distinct as characters, and yeah. I think almost everybody in this. I mean, obviously, we were sort of teenage lads at this time, so so we liked them for different reasons, but they gave young girls someone to identify with, however, you sort of saw yourself that there was a character there for you. I mean, there's only five, so I'm not sure that everybody felt covered.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

No, but it's it's it's like a cartoon though, isn't it? It's a bit like I don't know, everyone's got their favourite Scooby-Doo character or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Like they were almost like caricatures that have been brought to life, and they all mad go to that. Well, I can't think of anything else because she's got four distinct memories. Could have said two character Teenage Mutant Turtle. Oh, yeah, that could have been a better one, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Everyone had the Scooby-Doo character.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

I think they were more distinct than any Scooby-Doo character. But as you were talking about, you say it's great marketing. Not really. Mel B explained on the Rachel Ray Show in 2017. She says it was just a lazy journalist that couldn't remember our name, so she said, This one's a bit sporty, this one's a bit partial. That one's definitely well, she said it just stuck, but it was top of the Pops magazine that created the the names. So the management team realised after that this was a great idea and then expanded on it to become these caricatures.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Ah, so they did embrace it, but but the first mention of it was you're the sporty one. You're so it was scary was a bit weird, wasn't it? You're the you're the mental case.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Well, she said herself, she said um they basically said I was scary because I were really loud, which I can imagine. Because I just imagine her as a bow selector character, unfortunately. Stuff like that. But but you think about how those names became some of the most famous names in the history of entertainment, and it's quite fascinating that they came from this one R forced article. Just you know what I mean? Because everyone at that time thought they'd be one out uh one at Wonders after.

Favourites, Voices, And Solo Strengths

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Who would you not so not favourites again? We've done that. Who would done favourite worst? No, that's not good to write. We don't we don't we don't lose your second. We don't stoop that low. No, no, we've we've stooped low enough. But so if you're gonna form a boy band, and it's not really your thing, is it? But and those were the five choices, and you're your thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

That sounds quite insulting, though, as if like, well, I can't see you in a boy band. It's not really your sort of you know, I mean, balls won't work, glasses.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Um well, yeah. I mean, I'm I'm not gonna backtrack. I think for those reasons I don't see you in a boy band today. No, no, it's fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah, uh people used to say I looked a little bit like one of the Backstreet boys, but anyway, carry on. Not now.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

So so you've got these five choices. Your first one in in the queue, they can say, Andrew, we need to we're starting a boy band. Your options are and you can dress accordingly. You've got sporty, scary, posh, baby, and uh ginger.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, I suppose it's pretty obvious, innit? Well ginger. It seems rude, doesn't it? What would you have? What would you go for?

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Uh you're gonna say sporty, aren't you? It kinda has to be, not because I like the idea of that. I just can't I don't think any of the others fit.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Like did you not fancy yourself as a scary spice? No, that's it. You were scary spice, baby don't really work.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

I I'd I I'm quite a fresh phrase young chap, I suppose, once upon a time.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

You were back in your day, you were a very young looking chap, so I think you might have got baby, which is you know, it's it's yeah. Anyway, let's uh pre-jerry leave him. So they were formed in 1994 after talent agency audition for a new girl group. So they were manufactured, which is a lot of people had a go at the same time. I always think Waterman is involved, but I don't think he is, is it? No, it's Simon Fuller, the other one. Remember Simon Fuller? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The debut single Wannabe was released in July 1996. This is madness, number one hit in 37 countries. That's that's basically every country. That's as like pretty much all the countries. Yeah, pretty much all the countries. The debut album Spice became one of the best-selling albums ever, and the the best-selling album by an all-female group. And then the Girl Power slogans became this like real massive slogan for women empowerment. And in 2018, Rolling Stone named the Spice Girls brand of Girl Power in the uh millennial top 100 um cultural touchstones that shaped. It did, I mean it sounds yeah it did feel like a thing though, didn't it?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Like it was kind of quite they didn't take any concerns.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

They weren't like oh yeah, they weren't like sort of uh I think the older I don't know about Bernardo Armour. I think they're especially Siavon had a little bit of mmmph about I don't know what that were. Um but I think the these were proper. We I remember like Mel C going up on Brit Awards talking when we were about to Oasis and she goes, Liam, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough. And they were all like tongue in cheek, but they they give as good as good as they got, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah, I think I think that's despite Klein being manufactured, and I don't know how much they had to act to play up to these characters they were given, but it it certainly felt authentic, I thought. It didn't it didn't feel like I can't think of a great example, but like going back to Scooby-Doo. Yeah, I don't know if I can make it work, Scooby-Doo. I I don't know, it didn't feel like that once the cameras were off, these were gonna be really different people. It did seem like that that this is kind of what they are.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Oh yeah. I don't think like Mel B's a character or Jerry's a character or anything like that. And I do believe that they would genuinely rate really, really good mates as well. I I do honestly think that and I do think the. Yeah, and and like it might have been a market employer, the girl power thing, but I do think they believed in feminism at least. So I do think it works, and I do think it's authentic. Uh despite wannabe being dismissed as a probable one-it wonder, and I remember this at the time, do you? That everyone said, Ah, one-it-wonder those, you know, they come out with that wannabe, you'll never hear them again. Do you remember that at the time?

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Uh no, but I'm I'm not I'm not dismissing it. I I I can believe people thought, oh yeah, that's it, they've just exploded and we we won't hear from them again. But but they came straight back with Do you remember the second single? Is it not one you've what did you say already? Stop writing that. No.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

That's much is that much later.

Girl Power: Slogan, Authenticity, Reach

SPEAKER_01 14:08

If you put two and two and two together, don't like that one. Say I'm not a big fan of that. But they had a string of number one singles, say you'll be there, two become one, who do you think you are, spice up your life. No, no, that's that's not one that I really like that much. Mama, not really. I like that one, yeah, like that.

unknown 14:24

Mamma.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

But I don't know if you agree with me. I I had a chat with the guy who asked for this, Noel Eggington, um, yesterday about this, and we both agreed that yeah, I think it was fair to say early on that Jerry was seen as the leader of the group, like the spokeswoman, the the figurehead.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

I thought Jerry and Mel B felt very much like they were that's interesting. They were squabbling for that top not in a sense that I I I didn't feel that they were rivals. I just I just kind of thought they'll be the two that are gonna be the ones sort of stealing the limelight almost.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Well, I think I wonder if Jerry overcame Mel B or overcame uh like became the the the uh whatchall it the leader when she wore that Union Jack dress at the 1997 Brit Awards because that is one of the most culture, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

The nice right up there, isn't it? Like I I think like the full I mean she was she was like a little doll, like the red hair, uh the the union drag dress, like it's such an iconic image that I don't think you even necessarily need to know who the spy skills are to to know of that as an icon.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what the sun headline was for after the Brit Awards?

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Um you've got to be careful these days, ain't you?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Um the Sun weren't really that careful.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

How were they not? Um no, because then it wouldn't have been real if I'd have just thought about it previously. But you would imagine that the headline writer got more time than just to do it on the spot. Um I think it's something something along the lines of like I think how long has it took me to get to this point where I'm thinking something to do with Union Jack. That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking something with Union Jack.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

But I'm thinking like no, it's much more low brow, much more low brow than that. It was what a lovely pair of Brits. Oh yeah, no, they so bad time, weren't it? Yeah, different time, that was absolutely pre-woke. Well, that's that was the headline. What a lovely pair of Brits, and it were just her in this life, fairly revealing top. But anyway, I think if take that with Barlow's group, and I'd say Bodies O'Ronan's group, Jerry definitely to me felt like the front woman. I think even behind the scenes she said after that she was the one I thought you were gonna say when you started then.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

If Barlow had won that dress, it might not have had the same impact, or something like to that expect. Like as if like it was all about the dress. I thought that's where you were going with it.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Absolutely amazing if you'd have won that Union Jack dress.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

And they didn't say like nobody mentioned it, they just it just turned up and sang that.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, that would have been better if he sang something like uh forever, quite really seriously. Like yeah, we're wearing that you you sorry sorry, what what was your point? Well, I'm gonna say that I think in the same way Barler was the front man of Take That, Jerry definitely felt like the front woman to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

She said as I say, I don't disagree. I I I just thought Mel B might might disagree with you, might beg to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Well, I think they were both outspoken, Jerry and Mel B. But I think Jerry, behind the scenes, by the sounds of it, she was the one who was pushing the creative decisions more and being so, well, we need to do this, girls, we need to do that. And she was a bit more political as well. Like she once said Maggie Thatcher was the first spice girl. I can't imagine Mel B ever saying that.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

It's hard to imagine her saying anything, not in both selectors, sort of mode. Yeah. And I think that's a shame, but that's that's where we're well.

Brit Awards, Union Jack Dress, Icon Status

SPEAKER_01 18:05

She was alright about it, I think. Um obviously Jerry, a bit of a cheeky girl, obviously, uh, pinched Prince Charles' asshole. Um not his actual asshole, his um yeah, pinch pinched his bottom. What a pair of Brits. Um 1997 to 1998, the Spice Girls were at the height of their fame releasing albums, merchandise. Even got a film, Spice World. Have you seen Spice World?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

No, not in a sort of snobby sense. What I don't think I've ever seen it. I can't even I've seen that. I think it's in it. Yeah, I don't know. I think I've seen bits of it. I don't think I've seen it as a film though, no. I think I've seen it on a bus at some point. Did he use it in like a music video for one of the songs? Yeah, I think one of the music. I think it might have been too much.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Thank you very much. Stop singing, that's not a song, you got that wrong again. What is that? Is that not even them? No, that is them, but you keep every time you're getting what song were it again? Star Bright. I thought that's I pictured them on a London bus in that. Is that not right? I think it's too much. Too much for something. Fast than that, weren't they running about in London? I could be wrong. I don't think it's definitely not Stark, because Stop's the one where they're in the street. Um, yeah. Yeah, they're in the street and almost like a London street. Because it's the best I've seen um Emma Bunton look in that video personally, just like a young Goldiehorn. Anyway, um yeah, so Spice World was obviously a massive massive success. Carrie Glitter in Spice World, and they had to um edit him out after PC World got hold of his computer and yeah told him.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Well he weren't connected to the film, was it?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

No, I don't imagine no, no, I don't think we download a picture of the Spice Girls. Um hope not. Anyway. Um but they embarked on the Spice World tour. Well, baby spice. Anyway, we should probably move off uh that maybe that's probably why he went, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

No, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

That's probably why he did it, the film. What's it what's it about? So a pop the old ginger baby. Yep, yep, that's me. I'm in. I'm interested. I'm interested. Where do I sign? But yeah, but during the Spice World. Yeah, well, you know, he's he is he is he's a man of the world. I think you'll have heard these sort of garright style jokes with Nick Shoreline behind the scenes from the Sheffield United Way before. Um I think um, yeah, so it was during the Spice World Tour that tensions finally broke. So this is what we're here to talk about really well. What year are we are we now? 1998. Jerry Halliwell announced her departure from the Spice Girls through a solicitor. Um, two different versions again because she didn't actually apparently she just didn't show. Yeah. So no, sorry, she officially left.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

So I think the announcement, yeah, the announcement came after the fact that she just wasn't there for some of the I don't know if it was shows or appearances, but she just go.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Two concerts in Norway. It's a bit cold in Norway, in fairness to her, but you know, I I'd like to go. Um and she did go on the national lottery draw as well. Um there's a there's some footage of the the Spice Girl saying, I think it's Carol Smiley introducing it, she goes, ah, we're that's terrible accent of Carol Smiley. Um we asked Jerry tonight. That were a bit of everything. Um and Mel C says, I've no tests know Jerry. Has anybody seen Jerry? Does anyone Jerry? Who remembers Jerry? I thought she was our sweetweed thing, wasn't she? Aye, who remembers her? Mel C goes, I she's not feeling very well at the moment, you know, she's very ill. Get well soon, Jerry. Um, and she said that. Uh and later Mel C said she said that because she did genuinely believe that Jerry would come back because she'd not actually said she just said, I'm not I'm I'm I'm done. Yeah. She first sighted um Halliwell for the reasons for her uh leaving was creative dis uh differences, and then later said she was suffering from disillusionment. And exhaustion, but then obviously what I think we'll probably touch on is rumours of a power struggle with Mel B circulated immediately after. Um and it were probably the biggest entertainment story of the year, I think, in 1998, Gerald leaving the Spice Girls. Main literally the main headline of the news, which yeah, I don't know if I don't know if there's anyone big enough for that now.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Uh I mean we've done it on a previous episode. When when did Robbie leave?

SPEAKER_01 22:26

I don't know if that was was that the main headline? It probably was, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Yeah. I think they were there were similar levels. I I I think because I think the difference with the spy skills is and I don't know, maybe it's because their fan base was younger. I don't know, but I remember people sobbing at Robbie leaving. I I don't remember that impact. I remember it being shocking that Jerry left, but I don't remember the tears.

Spice World Era And Cultural Saturation

SPEAKER_01 22:49

I watched the news report today of a lever and it went to like people in the crowd, and one of them said, in a way, she's let the entire country down. In a way, in a way, yeah, unfortunately. Do you remember hearing the news? Because I remember her not going on national lottery, and I don't know why I remember that, and everyone, all the papers going, oh Jerry's about to quit, Jerry's about and then she did actually quit.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

It was it was a big no, which again I think probably is why I I do remember sort of seeing like the news of Robbie Williams leaves. I I don't remember the moment of sort of seeing Jerry's left. I I can't I can't sort of picture it. And I don't know I don't know if the first time I knew about it was that she'd left to go and do some solo stuff or what. I don't I'm not sure, but I I can't I don't have any distinct memory of oh my god Jerry has left as far as five the uh headline in the sun, um not as uh well nowhere near as loose as the day one.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Oh no, I'm not sad day, put put your put your tissues away, guys. Jerry's left. Um no, it was five become four. Yeah, I mean it's cleaner, isn't it? Yeah, it's it's well it's not very good, is it really? What would you have had Jerry? I'm I'm doing it again, put you on the spot to become like a um ginger Hallie went that's not bad, that's not bad at all on on the spot that to be honest, yeah. Um Jerry Ginger I would have said ginger fucks off. I didn't have a headline, ginger fucks off front page. Um spice this that's absolutely outright.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

No, well, what are you gonna say? It's just far too long. I think it's something like this this spiced spiced meal no longer has the Jerry on it. It's awful.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Jerry on top? You could have Jerry not on the Jerry on the cake, Jerry on the Jerry on the wake. It's going way too sort of anyway.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Without there's no Jerry on top. I don't know. But yeah, Jerry the Bered.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

No. Anyway, um they did carry on.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

This is not Jerry Good for the rest of the Spice Girls. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Awful. Uh the Spice Girl said they were going to carry on, and they did indeed release a favourite Spice Girl song after uh Viva Forever. Yeah, correct. Yeah, I think I've heard you said that before. Well, I didn't know Jerry weren't in that. No, well, she she does sing on it, um, but they've she'd gone by the time it got released. So the the video of it is an animated video.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I remember every whispered word.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Good song. Absolutely. Yeah, uh, so there is um yeah, that Jerry is in the video as an animated character. Oh, that's why, because she wasn't there. Yeah, well, no, well, who knows? Maybe they did I don't know. I I I'm just gonna say yeah, for for the story, to be fair. But but like you said, she did it was a case where she just didn't show up one day. Um Victoria Beckham, uh then Adams, later said that Jerry just left, she didn't turn up to schedule commitments, and the group had no warning. Mel C said she was devastated and confused, she felt like the group was under immense pressure and that Jerry's exit felt like the beginning of the end. And poor old baby spies cried for days and days and said it was like she'd lost her sister.

The Split: Geri’s Disappearance And Exit

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah, I mean, I don't know why they don't have to react in sort of character moments. Sporty spies said like it's a game of two halves. Yeah, yeah. No, she she's had a she's had another offer, and I had to move on to it's been a great experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

It's been a great experience. But we move on as a club, we move on as a club. Um yeah, Victoria Hello, I think that I had to buy a new yacht and and and uh but yeah, in the documentary giving you everything, which I watched, and it is pretty interesting. Um apparently on the last plane trip that they had uh after one of the gigs, she just went round to everyone and said bye. And everyone said, like on the plane, it's a bit odd why she did that, but none of them actually thought, oh yeah. Literally a goodbye. Yeah. The Mel B stuff is the thing I think were most because we like a bit of tabloid gossip, don't we, at whore members? Um, I think deep down we could have been writing for the sun in the 90s, as you guys are evidenced by these incredible big tangent there.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

But did you see someone who had commented on uh X it is now in it, saying, uh have you seen what the title of your podcast looks like?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah. Yeah, we have. Yeah, yeah, we have mate. Yeah, it's half old. People keep doing it, people keep saying, Thought this were a different sort of podcast.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah, but all you have to do is click on it. Yeah, but they don't want to thought. Yes, the title does look like Horror Members. This is mainly deliberate.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah. But uh but they don't want to do it, they don't want to, yeah, you know, I I it's half firing off hate before they've actually looked into it, aren't they? This is the modern world. This is this is the modern world. We have talked, by the way, privately about getting um finally getting some uh listeners' feedback because Joshua messaged us and he's right, he said, Don't forget your fans, man, um, because we've not done any listeners' feedback. We do like doing that, but obviously the Chapel St. Leonard's uh debacle as as let us.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Do you remember I sent that to AI and said, Have we forgotten our fans? And it said, Come on, this is harsh. There's lots of engagement with the fans. Uh let's not pretend this podcast has forgotten its fans.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Okay. Well, I'll send that to Joshua, but I do think we should do it. Anyway, Mel B. This is where the good stuff starts, I think. Mel B said in interviews that she was angry and hurt that Jerry had abandoned him at a critical moment. She said, I can imagine her saying this. She left on my bloody birthday and she didn't tell anybody. Fucking hell. I can really imagine her saying, probably not like that in real life, but yeah, she left on a birthday. But yeah, I don't think that's relevant.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

But why not? I but what would be the point saying, well, I'll I'll leave tomorrow then if it's your birthday? Like that. That's if she's gonna go in.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Alison I would recently saying, Why couldn't they uh arrest Prince uh Prince Andrew after his birthday? She's got a lot of stick for that. Yeah, I love how like big things people make of their own birthday or a bit of other people's birthday. Don't mean anything, anyway. Rumours of uh Melby and Jerry were involved in a romantic relationship. Yeah, you've mentioned this to me. I I don't I don't remember this really being a thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

I I never knew if this was just kind of started to sell sort of stories or papers or or I don't know. Supposedly this is a thing then, is it?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Apparently this all started on fan forums back in the the late 90s, which is like when forums or whatever message boards that would have been then, weren't they, that um first come to these sort of rumours about it. But Mel B had it, but Mel B on Piers Morgan's life stories said that all the Spice Girls have slept in a bed together, and Jerry's gonna hate me for saying this because she's all poshing a country house now with her husband. Um and then Gerry immediately released a statement just about that. That that one quote saying this is brilliant. This is a statement from Jerry Halliwell. It's been very disappointing to read about these rumours again, especially on Mother's Day of all days. Yeah, I mean she's not Jerry Happy again. No, not Jerry Happy. Well, she said she'd like the fans to know that what has been reported.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

You can't report this on Mother on the Savers Day.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

It's not a saves Mother's Day, don't mean anything. She said she'd like the fans to know that what's been reported about Melby and Jerry is simply not true and has been very hurtful to her and her family.

Media Frenzy And Public Reaction

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, but I I I don't know. I I don't know enough about any of this to I kind of always thought it was a a bit like oh yeah, maybe we all had a relationship, maybe we didn't. I I don't know, and I never saw it as like a sh what do you call it? Like a tell, what do you call it? Like a it's not show and tell, is it? When like a tell all loves kiss and tell, kiss and tell.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Show and tell and tell show and tell, then you went tell all I I don't know, I just uh I kind of I don't really care if that they did do anything or they didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

I never saw I never really saw it as a no anything other than like probably a couple of journalists saying, Oh yeah, you know, did anything happen between you, or maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I I don't know. Was there actually more weight to it then, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Well, just to finish this bit off, Jerry still is insist to this day that she left due to exhaustion, being overwhelmed by fame and struggling emotionally, and she felt constrained by the spy skills machine. She said her ideas.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Sorry, I've I've cut in early there, but no, go on, go on. But yeah, but it's you're sort of saying, yeah, but Jerry to this day still said are they are they not all very plausible reasons for bird be burned?

SPEAKER_01 31:58

No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She said she was losing her place as the group uh in the group's identity, and she felt more and more boxed in by the the ginger spice caricature. So, but I have seen her on Pierce Morgan's life stories as well, where she just keeps saying it's just it is like saying what happened then with you and Melby, and she's saying, Look, we were very young, and he goes, Yeah, but have you spoken about her? She goes, Well, yeah, she goes, I've apologised, yeah. And then uh Piers Morgan says, Has she apologised? And she'll apologize. She goes, No, and I don't think she ever will. And it's quite do you know what I mean? I like all this sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Ooh, yeah, I I don't know. I I I kind of I thought the the Robbie and Gary Barlow dynamic was very interesting as to kind of where they went, and it seemed like they both felt they had something to kind of redeem themselves with. I'm not really sure that exists with it. I just think they had everything on a plate of them crazy world tours and they just got burnt out. And one of them just maybe kind of didn't manage it in the best way, but I don't think there's a good way to do it. I think if she just sort of sat them all down and said, Look, guys, I'm feeling burnt out. I think all that happens in that scenario is you get talked into doing another six months or see how the next year goes. I think if you've got to a point where that's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

And I can imagine Jerry being the sort of um because she's quite a creative character, like she's always like you could see she's especially in this era, she's very like, Oh, and I think we should do this, and you know, quite sort of impulsive. I can imagine her saying, Oh, why don't our next album be a drum and bass album? What do you reckon? And management going, no, that's not happening, Jerry. Get your union jack dress, sit down and shut up. Yeah, that that's I'd imagine that's genuine like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

I think the other thing as well, there's the sort of stereotype seems to be after the event that that they had this sort of huge clash, and but but the rest of the band don't really seem to to talk about it like that. And I know there's a little bit of a strange dynamic about when they tried to reform, I don't think Victoria Beckham wanted to do it, and and sort of some of them said, Well, yeah, you know, she's alright, she's made her money, and not a big miss, is she? Let's be honest. No, but I don't know that. But it's really easy, but you're wasting my time.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Did she do it? I just feel anyway. Carry on.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Yeah, you always think the share shares on the show. Ridiculously like distorted, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

I think that is, though. You're out of your mind. You go to not go like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Uh I don't think that's not not on the studio released version, no, but um But I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Uh, because I'm gonna ask you what do you think actually happened, and I think you're completely right.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

I think that that they had so much success, so young, probably had loads of money in the bank. I don't know actually, I don't know how much of the money was actually going to them, but I think the money is mine. The money was resting in Melbees account.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Melbees account. I think they argued, they're young girls, uh 20 odd girls. Of course, yeah, yeah. U i if us a lot had gone on tour, me and me and you lot uh our our mates, uh when we were in his 20s, I think we'd have left after about a week. We sometimes go on one night out and have a massive argument, and like that's it.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

I love those moments. Do you remember when we came back from was it 10 or 8th or what? And me and you like we had a few disagreements, but we were fine. Like people just stood in silence, like just sort of looking at the floor. Like that's what we're gonna do. That were a two-week holiday.

Aftermath: “Viva Forever” To “Goodbye”

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, uh so imagine what it's like being in a girl band. And like I said, there's you although no Gallagher, by the way, talking about people being young. I've seen this come up when I was doing my research. He said, He doesn't believe Jerry Spice is only in her 20s. This is an awful comment, Ness. He said, If Jerry Spice is only in her 20s, she's gonna look fucking dog rough when she's in her 40s. That's no again, different time. We're not like sort of promoting that. She staged all right though, didn't she? I thought she was. Yeah, she did, but I just found it amazing that he he said that. And I know that this sounds incredibly woke from me. If someone said that now, I think their career would be done.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Yeah, I mean, I I think Noel's great, but he looked like an old man when he was 20. So I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

He looked like he did, he's always looked tall. Yeah, bit a bit of a yeah, what's the word?

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Pot Kettle Peter Parker, no, not Pete Parker Spider-Man, isn't it? Parker. Is it Parker at Thunderbird?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Parker Thunderbird, yeah. Peter Parker and Spider-Man. Two opposite characters there, completely opposite characters. So I but I agree with you. I think and I think Jerry left because I think she's an impulsive character. I I doubt Jerry was sitting there for days and days and days. I think she just woke up one day and said, I've had enough, I'm out.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Well, I think the other thing is like in every interview and every press release, I would imagine you get, Oh, what about them? Have they got any annoying habits? I bet they all bet you drive each of the mad, don't you? Like, I I don't know, just I could just think it was like, Oh, for God's sake, shut up. Like, we've done a couple of nice tunes, just let's get on with it.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Let's just get on with it. The after the math of this, so the Spice Girls released. Can you remember the song that they released? The the first song they released without Jerry. Obviously, Jerry was wasn't in the band when Viva Forever was released, but she was part of that song. So this is n Sons Jerry.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

No, this is the Spice Girl's first song. Songs Jerry. What? Without Jerry. No, but you're Annabelle, that's not a song. No, but what I'm saying is that so you're you when I Oh, I thought you meant that I thought you meant that with the song. Sorms Jerry Jerry. So she was a cartoon character in another one. This is she there is no Jerry in the song.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

There is no Jerry.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

This is the first song without Jerry. I can't say the same thing that I keep saying, can I? Um Jerry. No, I was gonna say stop right now again. I can't say that.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Um stop right now, stop losing the band. Uh you'll know you know this. Come on, it's a it's a it's a quite an apt song as well. Christmas number one, 1998. Well, I've got this, yeah. Go on.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

No, stick your mama, but it's not that, is it?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Goodbye, my friend. You'll never get away. Jerry uh launched a solo career. Remember the first song back where uh look at me and the drama. I use that one, but I think people are being attention seeking. I sometimes said it's a video, like I think I must have sent it to you before, but I think people are attention talking to Hal Stuart, I'm joking. Now, but if uh if I think someone's like attention seeking, I'll send you a video and say look at me.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

I think Hal's first music video was uh It's it's Rain and Men as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah, exactly that. Yeah, I mean uh since his last one. Did Jerry do that?

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Was that his second song?

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yeah, it's raining a man. But that none of those got to number one, apparently. Apparently, she had three.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

That's the Hal connection.

Rumours, Power Struggles, And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Hallelujah. Ah, superb. Um, yeah, the three to one singles, Michino Latino. Michico Latino. Yeah, lift me up. Don't remember that. Oh no, I don't like that one. Um Bag It Up. No. Uh interesting. I don't even know that one to be honest. Well, it's funny actually, because uh Oasis were gonna call their last album Bag It Up instead of Dig Out Your Soul until the last minute was someone told Noel Gallagher, do you know Jerry Aliball's got a song called Art, so we changed it.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Oasis were gonna be called the Spice Girls as well, weren't they? Until the show, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Spice Worlds, Spice Up Your Life with a comeback. Imagine that, spice it up your life. Um by 2001 though, the Spice Girls did go. The the the original, the four P Spice Girls after Jerry had left, went on a hiatus and everyone did solo projects. I was gonna ask you who did the best solo career, but you've already answered it, and it's the right answer with Even Food don't taste that good.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah, that's a great song. I like the Matt Cardle song she did as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Um Matt Cardle.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

They don't sing his name in there. It's not uh Craig David Craig David, yeah. Uh Bunt and did okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

I can't think of it. Pluswise was alright, but what I am is what I am, it's what I am or what or something like that. So it went like a bit like that. What uh what I am is what I am Victoria Becca Mother, she just did you're out of your mind. And I don't remember anything Melbourne did, but she did marry Eddie Murphy, didn't she? I think. They had a kid, I don't know if they were married. Did she do any solo stuff, Melbourne? Yeah, she did like I remember doing it like an RB video, which were a bit like proper, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Oh yeah, I remember it. But in 2007 they did reform with Jerry, uh, and they reformed again in 2019. Um the full five both times? No, the second time, no, no posh spice. Yeah. Um thinking of doing a uh a follow-up to Out of Your Mind, probably. But yeah, Jerry though, on that 2019 tour publicly apologised on stage for leaving uh back in 1998. I think it's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I I agree with you. I've seen a lot of videos this week.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

You know what that made me think of when we we can't name names, but we were once at a house party and someone said your dad is being your dad is being alright in Obed. He says, I think he's alright.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

I think he's alright, yeah. I think he's alright. Brilliant. Your dad's been alright in Obed. I think he's alright. He's alright. He's alright, your dad. I think he's alright. Um, yeah, but I can't remember. Um I can't remember what I'm gonna say. I uh but I think it there's a lot of like videos I've watched since, and in the comments, like interviews and stuff, people say, look at how Mel B's looking at Jerry. And she's just looking at her, like just a bit. I'm not I'm not buying it.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

I mean, to be to be fair, maybe there's maybe there's loads of stuff that will come out in the future, but I think there's been enough time now. I just think they're just burnt out. I just think it might not have been.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

But I think Jimmy in particular, as like the creative spark of the group, I think she was the one who was sort of, oh, we need to do this now, let's do this now, let's do that now.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah, but I think in another year's time it could have been Mel B, it could have been Mel C. For one, it'd never be baby.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

No, can't imagine Emma ever saying, I'm on to be honest. Yeah, I'm not coming, I'm not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

But I think they'd have all been having people saying, uh, tell you what, if you were a solo artist, you could be earning this. I think they're all being sort of probably just bored. I mean, I'm I'm sporty and baby, one position, all of them to be honest, must be sick of playing these characters. I think for them to carry on, they had to really move away from from that. I think, but yeah, I I don't know. I probably not great reason to do a podcast about it, but I don't think it's that there's that much drama to it.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

No, it's fine. Same well to be fair, same as Hal. We made a few jokes today, but same as Hal leaving Sheffield United away. No drama, but doesn't mean we can't speculate what's been going on behind the scenes. What not what are you saying? Or that they were tough arguing about who's got the rights to girl power as uh you know as a as a as a term or anything like that, but yeah, um speculation is fancy you know me. You know me, and this is true. Um this is not about Hal or Jerry or anything. Something will happen big, and I'll say, Oh, I can't believe that. And then I say, Do you reckon? I'm quite a conspiracy theorist, though I like I'm quite a sort of do you reckon that happened? I wonder if that's happened. And then we'll sometimes get into but in this particular occasion, there is no we we've once again solved the case. There is nothing to get into with this. I think it was just a case of five young women um being burnt out by the record company. Pass the challenge. Uh thank you for that, Liam. And next time.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

I think I I don't know if the if the how the tone came across there. It we all like genuinely quite. I don't know about sad or is the right word, but it is you know Hal has been a big part of Sheffield Highway, isn't it?

Solo Careers And Reunions

SPEAKER_01 44:05

So I've been on I I've I've got a pass, I've been on there a few times, so you know, if if uh it it's it it's again a bit like the Jerry thing, it's fine. I think he's alright. I think I think he's alright. Um but yeah, thank you for that. Thank you to Hal uh for the years of laughter uh on Sheffield Highway. And obviously good luck to Nick and Ollie and and and uh the rest of the game. Yeah, some of the new chaps they've got on uh the rest of the gang. Um Jerry, thanks to this. Thanks to Jerry and thanks to Noel Eggmans as well, because he was the one who asked for the spice heels ages ago. Yeah, I need to check with that what you what you're doing there.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Is that what I assume that's someone that you're just changing his name to? Have a think about it, Noel Eggman's. No, yeah, I do think I know it is, but you've said it fairly convicted, like you've you've phased me, you've acted it that well.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

I've I've been thinking who's Noel Eggmonds? Yeah, it's Noel Eggmonds. I'm not it's the first time I've ever called at him, and it might be something we do going forward as well. Um but yeah. Just for anyone wondering who we're talking about, they might think it's Noel Edmonds, which is yeah, it's not Noel. Noel Edmonds has not asked for this. Well, I'd love it if Noel Edmonds had asked for this. Not officially, anyway, yeah. Can you imagine if he had said in homage of uh Hal uh stepping down for sure? Can you uh can you do uh when Jerry left the spiritual?

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Camera zooms in on his heart. He used to write his dreams, didn't he? And one of them was uh Who Remembers does a Hal Homage. A Hal homage.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

But yeah, hopefully we've done injustice, not if we've done Jerry Justice. We ought to have, obviously, to either. But um thank you, Liam, for a phenomenal piece of remembering there with Jerry Hallowell.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Cheers, dude. Thank you for listening to Who Remembers. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us at Whorremembers Pod at Outlook.com. If you are a right wing fascist, you can find us on Twitter at Who Remembers Pod. Or if you're a wokener, you can find us on Blue Sky at Who Remembers Pod. Once again, thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time for more remembering.