EP 1: Company Secrets with Amy Watson: Directing Royal Danish Ballet

In this episode, Amy Watson, Artistic Director of the Royal Danish Ballet, pulls back the curtain on her journey from California-born dancer to the helm of one of the world’s most storied companies. A former principal with RDB, Amy shares what her day-to-day looks like now: from morning rehearsals and dancer evaluations to shaping long-term artistic vision.

We talk about balancing the Bournonville legacy with contemporary innovation, the company’s structure and hiring practices, and how she’s reimagining the future while honoring its roots. Amy offers honest advice for young dancers on auditions, company culture, and mental health—and reflects on the moment a mentor first saw her potential as a future director.

With upcoming collaborations with Alexei Ratmansky and Akram Khan on the horizon, Amy gives us a glimpse into where RDB is headed and what it takes to lead with both tradition and transformation in mind.

Show notes: 

RDB website: kglteater.dk/en/about-us/arts/the-royal-danish-ballet

Audition address- job.ballet@kglteater.dk

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to Company Secrets Ballet Unfiltered, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the professional dance world. Each week, I sit down with artistic directors and industry leaders to have candid conversations about how dance companies really work, what they're looking for, how decisions get made, and what it takes to thrive. I'm your host, Jared Reddick. I'm so excited to kick off company secrets with my very first guest, Amy Watson, artistic director of the Royal Danish Ballet. Originally from California, Amy moved to New York at age 15 to train at the School of American Ballet before being invited to join the Royal Danish Ballet in 2000. She was promoted to soloist in 2003 and to principal dancer in 2007. Over her career, she has performed everything from Odeto Deal in Swan Lake to Terracina in Borneville's Knoppy, as well as contemporary works like Wayne McGregor's Chroma and Ohad Naharan's Minus 7. She was knighted by the Queen of Denmark with the Order of the Danabrag and retired from the stage in 2021 to become a rehearsal director. In November 2024, she was appointed Artistic Director of the Royal Danish Ballet and is now finishing her first season in the role. Welcome, Amy.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Thank you, Jared, for that wonderful, wonderful uh opening.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

You're the new artistic director there. I'm sure you're being pulled in a million directions every single day. But can you tell us what a typical day in your life looks like?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah, well, it's great because every day is different. I have to say that one of the most beautiful things I love about being a new artistic director is I didn't know what to expect. I do have certain set meetings weekly, but every day is different. So my typical day, I wake up at home with my two very small kids. I have a two-year-old and a five-year-old. So I'm up pretty early and I'm a morning person. I'm up about 5, 5:30. Get them ready for school, get them ready for daycare and feed them and everything. I start emailing. Sometimes I check in about seven o'clock in the morning. I check my mail for the first time. And luckily, my amazing new administrative director is also a morning person. So sometimes we get on the phone between 7 and 7.30, depending on what the day's challenge is or if we've had a surprise overnight. And then once I drop the kids off at school and daycare, we go straight into the office. I'm never later than between 8:30, 8:45. Our meetings generally start at 9. I start the day with my fantastic personal assistant, Anita, who kind of goes through anything that I maybe need to have an extra focus on, or she always prints out, I love this little folder called homework. So I know what my day is entailed. And I start an average day. I normally have one meeting, probably between nine and 10. It's normally with rehearsal directors or with the directors of the theater, because we have an actor here and we have an opera director, and we have now our first orchestra director too. And then 10 o'clock company class starts. And depending on if I'm lucky enough to teach, then I can go down to the studio and teach between 10 and 1125. I normally rush back up to the office and it can be a meeting regarding costumes. It can be repertoire meeting. I have to do on average, because we have 85 dancers, I have to do two times a week. I sit down and we, it's called a moose em tail here, which means an employee satisfaction yearly evaluation. So I have to have two of those a week to get through all the dancers and the rehearsal directors through the year. And that is about an hour long. We sit and take notes, we hear the dancers' thoughts and dreams. And then I try to have lunch most days. So we have to put it into the schedule. And then I go back, either attend rehearsals or do some emails, have more meetings. Again, it could be any sort of meeting about production. It could be an online meeting with a choreographer, or if I'm lucky enough to talk to someone like yourself and do a little podcast or an interview. And normally my day finishes roughly around 5:36 o'clock. If we have a performance, we finish a little earlier. I try to get home, try to have dinner with my family, and then I'll come back to the show if it's one of the shows that I prioritize because I do try to have work-life balance. Do not see all 128 shows a year. I see every cast and every premiere, but we also are very privileged here. We have a recording of every single show. So I can go back and look at it in my own time when I have the time to do that. And I'll put that into my schedule as well. So I can see as much as I can of the performances.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

So that's kind of an average day for me. I mean, that's absolutely extraordinary. I mean, I don't think, you know, for younger dancers and even seasoned company dancers, I don't think they really can appreciate how much an artistic director does. You see in media, artistic directors are portrayed as they flit from like breakfast meeting to having a leisurely lunch and maybe they'll pop into a rehearsal or two, but that is not the case.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

No, we counted one time this season. I had in one day 16 meetings scheduled. And, you know, depending on the urgency of the topic, it can be a five-minute meeting to I can sit in a seminar for five hours. It really depends on where we are in a yearly wheel or if something is really urgent or we have an emergency happen. And I will say your phone is always on. We've had quite a few instances where if I'm not on duty watching a performance, several things have happened this season where I get the phone call in the middle of the night. Oh, there has been a demonstration outside the opera house. Oh, the lights didn't work in this. I will say it's a pretty 24-hour job, even though you try to find the work-life balance.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Absolutely. And even with a company as supported by the government in terms of funding and resources, it's still there's just never enough hours in the day to accomplish everything that needs to happen.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

No, no. And and that being said, too, I mean, the fantastic thing about the government backing us, which is wonderful, but we do have to comply to a lot of government rules and bureaucracy. So therefore, those meetings are highly important. We have to make sure everything is up to standard, up to check. And I even get documents now from parliament reading about our new financial law, reading about what that entails for us. It's politics at a very high level for artists here.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah. And I don't think globally we don't necessarily appreciate that or hear about these things. You know, what does it look like to be an artistic leader in a country such as Denmark? Thank you for sharing that. Moving on from that, think about the Royal Danish, and we just everyone knows it's steeped in the Bourneville tradition. It's what made the company famous and put it on the map, and there's so much support behind that. How do you keep that tradition alive while keeping the ballet relevant and bringing in new voices? And what's that balance look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah, that's such an interesting question and topic. Well, it's keeping the balance, that's definitely difficult. I mean, it's interesting. Ever since I've been in Denmark for 25 years, I normally get the same question from people who don't know me. Why did you move to Denmark? Oh, well, the Royal Danish Ballet. Are we good? Are we international? Yes, you know, this man, August Borninville. You know, my coming to Denmark, I thought he would be more of kind of a hometown hero or a standard Karin Blixen is, or Hans Christian Andersen. August Bornenville hasn't quite reached that level for some reason yet. And so now it's my job to build a strategy around that. I guess reinvent or rebrand Born and Bill in a way at the same time as keeping his ballets in focus. And I love that. It's really interesting because if you have Hans Christian Anderson and August Borneville that were friendly, or so they say, and lived in the same period, these two men with fantastic fantasies and storytelling, because essentially that's what Bornenville did. He brought stories to life, but it's a version of storytelling. So now I'm trying to think of okay, how can I make him more of a public figure? How can we engage families to maybe read children's books about Bourne and Ville or his at least his stories? So yeah, I have all these ideas and concepts that I'm trying to come to life over the next few years. That's one thing. And then the other thing is a lot of the stories are based with some sort of a lot of humanity involved. A lot of things we can still relate to, a lot of the lightness and darkness, and there's always a moral in his stories. So how can you retell them in a modern way? I think there's a lot of talented young choreographers here that have the ability to do that. So I've had many talks about the future with a few of them. So I think we're gonna see new takes on them over the next few years. I can't reveal too much yet because we're in the process of planning all of that. But I will say I think there's a great deal of hope in finding new ways to tell these stories at the same time as uh keeping his style alive, which is what we're trying to do now in the company, bringing back Bourne and Ville classes every week, every Wednesday from next season.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Your plans sound really amazing. And I think about, you know, how do we keep the tradition alive, but also moving forward and Bourne and Ville being central to Ballet's history. I'm sure you have big plans. You've just walked in the door as the full-time artistic director. So we'll give you a minute to make all those things happen. And I think hopefully our listeners will just give Amy the grace to have a second to figure out how she's gonna achieve all these amazing plans for the company. Let's just move on to some nuts and bolts questions about the company. You already mentioned that you have 85 dancers in the company. Does that include apprentices?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

No, so that does not include apprentices because technically our apprentice program, which has changed or developed over the last few years, is actually still run by our school. It's kind of caught in the middle. We obviously have a strong connection to them. And I go down and teach the apprentices about twice a year for about a uh week long. And they also are part of some of our programs, but technically, no, they are not hired by us, so they do not the 85 that are included. No.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

So about how many apprentices that do you have then?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Well, it can change from year to year because Denmark is a small country. Currently, our apprentice program, you you have to be Danish to be a part of it, or actually, that's not true. I'm sorry. This year we are inviting a young woman from Norway, I believe. But you have to be in it to be able to take the education system here. So there are some practical elements that are involved if you become an apprentice here. But next season we have, I believe, at seven third-year apprentices. We have, I think it's four second-year apprentices and then four first-year apprentices. But it again, it can vary. This season we only had four third-year apprentices. So anywhere between seven and four per year, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Of course. And are those apprenticeship positions paid? Do they get a salary or are they just still considered in the school? So they are still working through their training.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

What I can answer is I know they are paid per show. Where I am not quite sure of the answer is if they are paid a salary. Because they are part of the education system. I do not believe they are, Jared, at this time, but I can get back to you on that. But they are paid for every performance that they do with us.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

We'll get back with those, the answer to that in the show notes at the end after we follow up. As far as the main company is concerned, how many weeks of the year are they actually working in season?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Well, our dancers are paid year-round. So it's a 12-month uh contract, but they work 10 months a year. So 10 months were in season from about August 1st to June 1st, give or take. And then within that 10 months, you have a few holidays. We have a lot of national holidays in Denmark. And then we have Easter, we have a full week, and we have about 10 in winter, normally in January. Sometimes it can be in February, but we aim to do January so that right after Nutcracker, you can have a little break, come back, and then Easter, you have a week, and then you push to the end of the season.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, I know dancers, we all love the breaks after Nutcracker and having a little bit of rest and recuperation, mental health time is always very much appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

That's right. From Scandinavia, you want some sun at that time. So we have to fly to Thailand or somewhere to get sun.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

I've definitely spent some time in Denmark uh during January and February and March, and maybe at the end of March you're getting a little hopeful because the light starts changing.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

That's right. But unlike now, now in summer, you have light almost till 11:30 at night.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Well, I know for me, summers in Copenhagen are absolutely magical because you have all the daylight and you know it stays light till very late. And of course, the sun rises at like 4 a.m., which is uh, you know, a little disconcerting too. So for new dancers, for young dancers, how can they tell if you're actually hiring? Is that something you put on the website? Is it something that goes through kind of a network? Is it something, you know, are you really looking at hiring from the school? What does that look like for a young dancer?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, I will say this. We do prioritize our school. We look at our school first. I have what's called half-year evaluations with the apprentices in November. So I get a kind of feeling of how's everyone progressing? How where are we going? And then in mid-February, I actually hold the audition for the apprentices to join the company. When you're a third-year apprentice, you have, yeah, it's around Valentine's Day that we invite them to take two company classes normally, two days in a row, where myself and all the rehearsal directors, or who's available that day, depending on different performance uh emergencies, will come down, observe them do company class for two days. And then we decide if we're going to offer them a contract or not. And those two days, the reason we do it that way, two company classes, is that's preferred version we always ask if someone, if we invite someone to come and audition for us from outside of our school, that we always recommend can you stay for two days so we can get to know you.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

That's great. And in terms of salary, the the burning question every dancer wants to know what does the starting salary, a main company contract, look like?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Main company contract, I believe it's 24,000 Danish kroner per month. So roughly how much is that in dollars now? I think the dollar's about 6.5. That's what I always round it off to normally. It's around 24,000 Danish kroner, but I will say this 12% of your salary goes to your retirement plan. So here, because after three years in the in the main company or when you're 25, we can then begin to talk about what's called a life contract, which means you would stay from 25 to 40. There are of different elements of that life contract, but it's a little bit more steady and secure than one-year contracts, and you keep adding up to your retirement plan at 40. What's also included in that contract is, of course, there is paternity and maternity leave here in Denmark. There is free health care here in Denmark. So there's a lot of benefits to the contract.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Well, I mean, being a dancer in the Royal Danish, it makes everyone here in the States very jealous to hear about that. Life contracts are just a no-go in the US, and certainly the benefits are extraordinary there. It's hard to compare apples to apples in terms of salary quality of life if you've never lived in that situation where you do have the health care that's provided. You do have the big social safety net that Denmark does offer all of its citizens. The idea that a life contract gives you a little more security than a one-year contract, I think it's a lot more security. It is what a luxury.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

It's a huge privilege. I mean, it's a huge, huge privilege to be a part of this company. I really talk to the dancers a lot about that and how you, you know, embody privilege as a ballet dancer. Yeah, I can't say enough about it. The quality of life, too. I mean, it's a fantastic, fantastic country to be in.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I would agree. I I spent enough time there, or I have spent enough time over the last decade or so. And I just I love every time I come and visit, from you know, flying into the airport to the train into the city center to just public transportation and the bikes everywhere, biking around the city. It's an amazing city and country. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

I I want to also add, too, one thing that I think I didn't know when I joined the Royal Danish Ballet, and it took me a while to understand, was that the union here, the ballet union, actually, it's just for the ballet. And it's over a hundred years old. And it's such an amazing thing that the dancers have their own union. They drive it, they, you know, run it. It's yeah, huge privilege to be a part of that union. So that's also something to think about as a young dancer.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

What a great benefit, you know, to have that representation where you feel like you can have your voice heard in a different way, which can at points feel, you know, in the ballet world, we're still dealing with certain methods of operation that might be less than ideal and maybe are a little outdated their mode of like director to dancer, that conversation, what that feels like. That power dynamic can be, you know, obviously it's been sensationalized as being abusive. And certainly there have been instances of that. But I know that I'm sure yourself and the new crop of artistic directors are making great strides in that area to really protect the health and then the mental health as well of our dancers.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yes, definitely a priority, huge priority, and something that led me to apply to the job for sure.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

They're so fortunate to have you, whether they realize it or not at this point, but I'm I'm sure they do, or they'll come to appreciate that. They they obviously being in the company for 25 years, they might know you a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

A little bit.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

A little bit. So speaking of getting into the company, when dancers from outside the school, and maybe they're a little bit more seasoned dancers, when they send their audition materials to you all, what does that process look like? Uh, who sees that information? You know, the the CVs and the reels, and and then when do you see it? Because ultimately you're gonna be the one who does the hiring.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah. So we have, I'll say it out loud, it's called job.k l Teta, T-E-A-T-E-R, dot D K. That's all year round. Uh, you can send your C V and your videos and everything. Because going back to your previous question, Jared, we don't really advertise when we have contracts or we haven't for a few years because it's actually been quite fluid. And after COVID, at least my experience being a rehearsal director, has been we constantly are looking and we're constantly keeping track of things. And we also unfortunately are constantly losing dancers, you know, for the good and for the bad. So we do keep the box open quite a long time. Of course, following GDPR rules, we also have to get rid of data. So, but we do try to keep a track somehow from a legal perspective of dancers that we could perhaps reach out to in the future. So once everyone sends their materials into that box, uh, the rehearsal director team, they, depending on their schedules, will split the time to kind of filter through the box. And I'll be honest, it depends on the time of year. So, for example, last season, we were in a situation where we lost a few dancers uh due to some injuries, and we needed to find some temporary dancers very quickly. We went through the box and we had to immediately say we only could have some people that had EU residency. We had to find all of that because our visa process takes too long. There's practical elements sometimes to the type time of year and the type of contract we're looking for. So that's one thing. But the rehearsal directors will filter through what they consider, you know, material that could be useful for our company in terms of if we're looking for male dancers, if we're looking for female dancers, if we're looking for dancers on point, how that can be. And principal dancers, soloists, chord of ballet, experienced students, all of them. And once they filter through it, then they'll send it to me and they say, What do you think? I give a thumbs up or a thumbs down. And we always say, Please come and audition, unless we're in the position where we need a temporary dancer tomorrow. If we're looking at a full-time contract, we always ask, come and audition. And what we've changed this year about the process is when they come and audition for us, we have dancers that we're interested in after taking company class go to the physio. So they go to the physio to make sure if there's any injuries that we need to be aware of and make sure they're healthy mentally and physically. And then they have an interview with me for 20 minutes in my office. And that's the new thing where I ask, why the Royal Danish Ballet? Do you know anything about Bournonville? If not, that's okay. Let me tell you a little bit about him. And then I always say, now, what can you provide to our company to continue having a safe and thriving environment? And that for me is really key to hear their answer and to see, okay, are we talking about teamwork? Are we talking about our own desires to be the star? What am I listening to when that dancer talks to me? And we talk a lot about the Danish culture and Scandinavian culture and how that can be different if you come from North America. We have 33 unions in the Royal Theater. 33. So Wow. Yeah. So there's a lot at play here. And Danish society, how do you fit into that? Yeah, there's many, many factors. And then after all of those elements, I sit and talk with the team. And we kind of vote actually. And we talk about should we offer this person a contract? In some cases, I will reach out if the dancer gives me permission. Can I reach out for a letter of recommendation or to call your current employee and to hear that? And that can also wait my uh thoughts as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

That is a very thorough vetting of these young dancers and really giving them the opportunity to put their best foot forward, you know, no pun intended with what we're talking about, right? But I mean, instead of just taking company class and it's a yes or a no, that is a very thorough vetting. And obviously, we know with hiring dancers, it's not just, it's not just the dancer who's the best technically. It's someone who has to fit within the structure that exists, who's going to thrive, right? It's so detrimental to young dancers to bring them into a situation where they're going to fail if they just don't have the whatever it is, whatever qualities that just are not that dissonance in the company. So they're going to feel uncomfortable. You're going to feel uncomfortable as a as a director, and the dancers are going to be like, this person just doesn't work because we work so very closely together in any rehearsal process or any season, I should say. So that is amazing. And the ballet world should be very grateful that you you go to such lengths to vet your dancers. And that information that you just shared is amazing for young dancers and dancers at anywhere in their career to understand what your hiring process looks like. Thank you for that. One last question in this in this area. Talking about auditions and when you're looking at videos, whether you're looking at dancers through videos or in person, what's something that catches your eye and for you makes them employable? That's a million-dollar question for your company now. It's like, what is she actually looking for?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Number one for me, when I'm just observing a dancer, what so this means not the conversation, not when I'm speaking to them, is musicality. Number one. Number one, how they interact with music, how if they're courageous with music, taking chances, pulling out the music, phrasing, that's definitely my number one. And then number two is coordination. I do look for coordination and the transfer of weight. That's that's my second thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

That's great. Yeah, musicality. I would I would expect that. But you know, I mean, you you never know. Everyone has their own sensibilities about the artistry of a dancer. Yeah. We're talking about these young dancers who are just trying to find their way into the profession and find, you know, once they get there, how do how are they successful? What do you wish more young dancers knew about company life?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, that's a really good one. I would say be curious and do your research on each company. You know, when I was growing up and we had those dance magazines and, you know, we didn't have the internet and stuff. We knew about repertoire and we knew about the famous dancers. That's wonderful. Yes. Still look for the repertoire. But, you know, ask around, as dancers in the company, you know, what is the culture like? What is what does a season look like? Know how many performances there are a year. I mean, we do roughly 133 shows a year in 10 months. We do 10 productions. But what type of um versatile is the repertoire? Do you have to dance in high heels? Do you dance in bare feet? Do you dance in flat shoes? Know what you're walking into. Honor the respect and tradition of, you know, in our house, it's Bornville. Um, what kind of country you're moving to, possibly, you know, if you're not moving to a country that you know, the language, all sorts of things. I would I would really be curious and try to research as much as you can about the place and reach out to people that may have worked there or do work there.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

That's great advice because it's not just about the dancer you are after finishing school or being in different companies. Like, how do you succeed within that environment? And it is these are life decisions we make as dancers when we join a company. You will spend absolutely so many hours in the studio with those people, you're going to spend potentially, you know, a decade or more in that city and that culture. So understanding what that looks like for them.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Absolutely. And you know, again, like we talked about previously, find out is there a union? What does the union represent? I I would, yeah, just do your homework and be really thorough about it. Because, like you said, if you spend hours and hours and weeks and days on end, you want to be in an environment that you you want to thrive in as a person as well. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

And to that point, and we we we touched on it a little bit earlier. You you touched on it, mental health is so important for the well-being of dancers and people, but we're talking about dancers because it's so physically demanding and our time is is absolutely encompassed by our profession. So, for you, what's one habit or mindset that has served you throughout your career to kind of preserve your mental health?

SPEAKER_00 26:57

That's a good question. I will have to say it changed, you know, through different chapters of my career. I would probably, you know, on average, say every five years, something new came up in my career to kind of reevaluate. You know, the first five years exciting, moving to a different country and joining the company and just keeping a job, you know, all of that, you know, and then and that was work, work, work. But then later in life, it's really about, you know, what is it about this art for my love? And why am I doing it? Going to the root of why are you doing this and how does that relate to who you are? Because our identity or and and self-worth sometimes is wrapped up in this career. But you have to know who you are outside of this career. Some of the things I learned in my career. Well, yeah. That later on in my career, realizing that our self-identity and self-worth is very wrapped up in the career that we have for many reasons. But I also would like to just talk about that, you know, it's very important to find yourself outside of this art form and everything in life that brings you your self-worth and confidence outside of the studio, outside of performing. That's really important for me. And to find my groundedness and who I am as Amy, the person, not Amy the ballerina, Amy the artistic director, but what my values and morals are and what I want to stand for in this life. I would really advise that. And then the next thing was always, always, always remember, no matter what rank you are, no matter how much experience you have. And I wish I knew this earlier in my career. It took me until I was about 30. Every day's a new day. Leave your ego at the door. Every day. You start over, you go back to the bar, you do your pliege, your tendus. And I think that is the huge gift of being a ballet dancer, is that every day your every minute your muscles change, your lines change, your thoughts change, your storytelling changes, no performance will be the same, which means no class will be the same. And that's amazing. Yeah. So leave the ego, kind of go with the flow sometimes and and you know, concentrate on yourself. And yeah, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Absolutely. I mean, it's such a privilege to be a professional dancer and to be surrounded by this art and these other extraordinary people that have committed their lives to pursuing the art and finding their own self-expression. And it's easy to get lost in the company politics or your personal life gets wrapped up into what you're doing in the studio. You know, we're human beings. This is such a human art form. And it's so important that we don't lose sight of our own humanity in pursuit of, you know, trying to succeed within a company. So that's like really great information. You were mentioning the idea of being artistic director a bit. When you were a young dancer, did you ever in a hundred years imagine that you would become artistic director?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Well, I have a funny story. When I was 25, Frank Anderson was my director here, and I was a soloist. It was the end of my fourth season as a soloist. I did not know that the following year I'd be promoted to principal. I had some thoughts because my repertoire was vastly going up. And Frank was very generous and said, you know, Amy, next season you're going to debut in Odette Odil, you're going to debut in the ballerina and ethes, and I'd like to give you this grant to go study with Violette Verdi for the summer. How wonderful. And so he kind of shipped me off to Violette for two weeks in Indiana, where it was just her and I for two weeks in a studio training every day. And it was the best two weeks of my life as a dancer. I learned a lot from that woman. And one day we were at dinner, and I don't know why she said it. I don't even remember as a conversation we were having. She said, You know, Amy, I think you'll be a wonderful ballerina, but I think your destiny is to be a director. And I just looked at her, and at the time I was almost slightly offended because I was like, What do you mean? But I didn't ask her and I just thanked her. And I remember being very perplexed by it. And I have no idea why she said it. I didn't question her. I wish I had. And years later, after I did get promoted and I had wonderful success, I was about in my early to mid-30s where it started ticking for me. What do I want to do? And I knew I wanted to teach. That's all I knew. I love teaching class. I love it. Because it's so pure, and that's where you really leave everything, I think, and you really shed everything. So I knew I wanted to teach. I didn't know in other capacities. And then I became closer with Nikolai, kind of behind the machine, letting me in on how things work. I knew I loved the Royal Danish Theater. I grew up with a father who was in public service. And then I said to my husband, I said, you know, I think my form of public service would be if I can just serve the royal theater at the highest level. So if they want me, I'll do it. And that's how I view it. It's my way of giving back to a theater that I wasn't raised in. They don't owe me anything. They gave me this fantastic career. So if I can pay it back this way, then yeah. So that's how I view the job.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

That is it's an amazing story, right? Because I've seen you both teach class, I've seen you in rehearsal, I've seen your beautiful performances. And you know what always has struck me when I'm watching you work is the intelligence that you bring to the work that you do. Um, I'm thinking specifically, there was one company class. I was watching you work with with some of the older dancers, right? And really how you navigated that situation in a classroom situation, right? In terms of these are more seasoned professionals, but going to them and working with them with such care, but such intelligence and still kind of pushing them, right? And sometimes we kind of have that back off from the more senior dancers who are established. So I'm sure Violette, but the thing that made you such a great artist was this intelligence that you brought to your work. And I'm sure Violette was like, Yes, I see how this would be a benefit to the dance world. And and here you are as director of this amazing house.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Thank you, Jared. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

It is the truth. It is the truth. A few more questions before we wrap up today. I've looked at next season. Obviously, season planning is so complicated and it takes really a good timeline, lead time in terms of getting choreographers and stagers in. So obviously, next season looks amazing, but what's a dream project that you'd love to bring to life for the Royal Theater? Like somewhere down the line, I know, without revealing anything that you can't reveal.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

What a great question. So many things right now. I'm fascinated with so many people. I mean, Kyle Abraham, I'm a huge fan of his work. Love to have him here. I've talked to Emma Portner. I'd love to explore if she has a full length in her. I really am a fan. We have a Danish young man named Sebastian Kloborg. I'm a huge fan of his work. He has extreme fantasy and a quirkiness and a humor that, yeah, I'm just fascinated with. And I think he can tell very dark stories in a palatable way. I'll say that. We have the gift in our company, this wonderful soloist named Eukene Saguez, this Spanish dancer. Fantastic. She did a feminist take on um Frederico Lorca's um blood wedding this year. I know she has depths in her. I want to keep exploring with her what stories we can tell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Not to interrupt you, but I saw her work at one of your choreographic performances, and she has such a powerful point of view and way of expressing it physically. So I would love to see more of her work. She just and just such a lovely human being and dancer. I'd love just having my conversations with her.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

She's she's fascinating. And she comes, her parents are from the theater world, and you can see that in her work. And you know, we're the house of Bourneville. We need to mime and storytelling. That's our that's who we are. So I really believe she could be a strong future for us. Yeah. And then there's, I mean, there's this man I've been trying to get on the phone with four times now we've missed each other, but this choreographer named Botus Siva, who has like a hip-hop and contemporary background, just did a piece or is doing a new piece for Yutaborg dance company and has worked with NDT. I really would like him here. We both have to get on our phones, but yeah, there's so many people. Uh, I'd like to do some more Hans-Christian Anderson stories. I think they're very dark and could be super fascinating to explore. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

I mean, you have your hands full. I mean, it's like you you want to do everything all at once, but it takes so much time and planning to make those projects come to life. But I'm I'm sure you'll get them done. I have I have no doubt you'll get them done.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I hope so. We and we actually plan here three years in advance. So I'm already into like 29 almost and 30. So we're doing our best to yeah, keep up with the times, but sometimes that's the tricky part with planning so far ahead.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

It is three-dimensional Tetris.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Yes, it is. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

To make it happen. So tell us about what's exciting for you about next season. I looked at your season plan. You have great balance between the classical and the contemporary. So I'd love for our audience to hear what's exciting for you.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Oh my gosh. Next season, I'm I'm thrilled to have Alexei back in the house, Ratmanski. Corey, the last time he choreographed for us was a full-length, I believe it was in 09, the golden cockerel. And so we haven't seen him since. That's about that's 16 years, 17 years. He's bringing his or creating or finishing creating, I'll say. He started it in Russia. It was the art of the fugue. And he unfortunately had to leave because of the war. And now he's going to recreate it for us here. And then Akram Khan, Lady Macbeth, he was just here this spring for three weeks working with us, and he started going back to young dancers. He workshop with the apprentices for two weeks here and creating and generating material with them for this project because they're going to be a part of it, our third-year apprentices. And it was completely inspirational, almost every minute, every day. He brought two assistants with them that were so kind and guiding of to these young dancers, teaching them, you know, not how to hurt yourselves in this extreme contemporary work. This is how you move here, this is how you do that. And then Akram would come in and do the storytelling. It was unbelievable. And I can't wait to be with him for four months next year and just yeah, pick his brain.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Wow. That is amazing that those young dancers got to work with him for two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Two weeks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Unbelievable. It sounds like that project's going to be amazing. I mean, my introduction really to Akram Khan's work, seeing it live was when I saw Vertical Road that the that you all did, and then you did it again the next year. It blew my mind. I've seen a lot of dance, and I was moved in a way that I hadn't been moved in a long time. I was so taken with it. I was just talking with a colleague of mine at a company, at a large company here in the United States, who said exactly the same thing. She was like, This is one of my favorite ballets now. His work is just so visceral and it's so deep and so thoughtful.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

So thoughtful. So he's such a he's a philosopher. And speaking with him and the research he does and the depths he wants to do it, I just, yeah, he's admirable. Admirable.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

It is time for us to wrap up, but before we leave, I'd like to end every interview with a full circle question. What's one piece of advice you'd give your younger self at the start of your career?

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Watch and listen. Watch and listen. Those moments where you're in the studio observing are priceless. You you can observe how the pianists work, you can observe how the rehearsal directors work, you can observe the director, you can observe, you know, more experienced dancers, you can observe your colleagues. It's priceless. You are gathering all that information and then listen to everything that's being said. And then at the same time, you need to go and ask questions. Go ask the questions. You know, my dream here, I say, is that when dancers are on break, and yes, we are all very tired in our breaks, I want to hear bubbling and like conversation everywhere in the halls. We tend to be very quiet because it's a silent art form, but we need to talk. We need to talk to continue to develop and evolve this art form of ours to go back to you know what you're talking about with mental health. We have to talk, we have to learn to communicate also and articulate ourselves. What do we need? How do we grow? How do we develop? What are you looking for? Ask questions. Watch, listen, ask questions.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

That is great advice for our young dancers. It seems so simple, but it's so powerful and so true. And I think that that transcends dance. It goes to every profession, any profession that you are invested in and you see as a career and a path forward. We we need to be curious in our lives. Very that's that's great advice. So, Amy, we have to finish up here, but thank you so much for being here and sharing so much about Royal Danish Ballet and your career and your life. It's absolutely amazing. We'll link to the Royal Danish Ballet site where you can learn more about the company and follow their upcoming season. If you've liked our conversation here today, you can follow us at Company Secrets Podcast on all platforms and on our website. Thank you, Amy.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Thank you, Jared, so much. It was a pleasure.