Company Secrets with Aaron Watkin: Directing English National Ballet

In this episode, Jared sits down with Aaron Watkin, Artistic Director of English National Ballet. A former principal dancer with Ballet Frankfurt under William Forsythe, Aaron has built an extraordinary career bridging classical tradition and contemporary innovation. After 17 years leading Semperoper Ballett in Dresden, he returned to ENB in 2023 to shape a new chapter for the company.

Aaron shares candid insights into the realities of running a major ballet organization, from building a five-year artistic and business strategy to reimagining ENB’s touring model, brand identity, and audience engagement. He discusses the importance of culture, mental health support for dancers, and the balance between honoring the classics and fostering innovation.

For dancers, Aaron pulls back the curtain on ENB’s audition and hiring process, and what qualities catch his eye in the studio

Whether you’re an aspiring dancer, a ballet lover, or someone curious about the inner workings of a world-class company, this conversation offers a rare look at artistic leadership grounded in vision, strategy, and care for people.

Transcript

Jared Redick (00:04)
Welcome to Company Secrets Ballet Unfiltered, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the professional dance world. Each week, I sit down with artistic directors and industry leaders to have candid conversations about how dance companies really work, what they're looking for, how decisions get made, and what it takes to thrive. I'm your host, Jared Redick.

Today we're sitting down with Aaron Watkin, Artistic Director of English National Ballet, a former principal dancer with Ballet Frankfurt under the direction of William Forsythe. Born in British Columbia, Aaron trained at Canada's National Ballet School before dancing with major classical companies like the National Ballet of Canada, English National Ballet, and Dutch National. He later joined Ballet Frankfurt as a principal dancer, immersing himself in the works of William Forsythe.

His career has spanned both classical and contemporary works, performing and staging works by Petitpa, Ashton, Balanchine, Forsythe, Kylian, and Duato. He went on to serve as a choreographic assistant to William Forsythe, staging his work for major companies around the world. Aaron spent 17 years leading Semper Opera Ballet in Dresden, where he redefined the company's repertory and created new full-length productions of classics like Swan Lake,

La Baedere and Don Q. In 2023, he returned to English National Ballet, this time as artistic director, bringing a global perspective and exciting new vision for the future of the company. Welcome to the show, Aaron, and thank you so much for being here.

Aaron Watkin (01:41)
Thank you, it's a pleasure Jared.

Jared Redick (01:43)
How is the new gig working out? This is season three, if I'm not mistaken.

Aaron Watkin (01:47)
I can't believe that it's already season three, time flies. But it's going well. Coming from a German opera house to a charity ballet company that's just doing ballet is a very different thing. So it took me time to adjust and get used to how everything works here. Also being back in London after being in Germany for so long. And to be honest, the first few years I did feel a little bit under the water just trying to observe and learn how everything works. But I'm feeling...

towards the end of last season and now much, much more sort of clear about where I want to go and how I can maneuver this company in the best way to excel and be the best we can be.

Jared Redick (02:29)
that

learning curve being in different structures in like the German company versus the English structure in the UK.

Aaron Watkin (02:34)
Yes, it's quite a different beast. Also, because in an opera house, you're one part of three and here the whole focus is on the ballet, which is quite nice actually.

Jared Redick (02:45)
what does a typical day look like for you as artistic director there?

Aaron Watkin (02:50)
Well,

currently up until now, it's been pretty much in my office and really working closely with the administrative team, my executive director, the COO, and all the directors of our executive team. We've spent two years, you know, building, redefining our mission, vision statement, a five-year artistic planning that I'm just working on.

together with a five-year business plan. And we're about to launch our new brand, a visual brand campaign in September. So there's just been a lot of things in the work that we needed to get the foundations together in order to now be able to deliver and be clear about what we're doing and where we're going and what we want for the future for this company.

Now, hopefully, I'm going to be able to spend a bit more time in the studio as well. I'm trying to organize my schedule to do my meetings in the morning for the admin and then be free in the afternoon to go to rehearsals.

Jared Redick (03:45)
Well, it sounds like you have a lot of exciting things going on and almost more importantly in terms of the organization, feels like you're being very methodical on your approach to lead the company into the future and into the next step.

Aaron Watkin (03:58)
Yeah, I think for me coming in, really was conscious about wanting to observe. I kept the majority of the company. I only brought four new dancers with me and I really wanted to have the opportunity to get to know the dancers here and the team equally. I had one interim year, which was quite a lot to juggle. I was still the director in Dresden and I was an interim director here because Tamara with San Francisco had to leave in the January period. That was...

you know, difficult but positive. And I just felt like I needed that time to understand in order to make the best decisions and form our strategies. And we also want to look much farther to the future. programming and planning five years at a time ideas so that we can, all of our teams can work towards delivering that in the most effective way, selling it, promoting it.

making sure we've also really thought through everything, getting, collecting data about how things will sell, what parts of the countries we need to be present in, amplifying our national touring, which is a big thing. When I was in the company back in the day, it was a very different economic situation, but we toured nine weeks in the fall and six weeks in the spring. And currently that's much less because it costs so much more to tour now. basically, we always lose on tour.

We don't make any money on tour. Have to make sure that in the other places we're making money to be able to do our programming basically.

Jared Redick (05:30)
It sounds like you have a really sensible business structure underlying the artistic product, right? And I think for some of our listeners, they might not understand how important that is for a ballet company to be successful and to survive in any environment really.

Aaron Watkin (05:45)
I think, you know, so often is the case that ballet dancers are moving into positions of artistic directors, which obviously on one side is fabulous because for your artistic programming, you know what it's like, you know what you want. But if I just speak for myself, I had no former training, like, you know, business management or things that would really help me in this profession, formal training in university or college, further training to prepare me for this. So also mental.

support, all the psychological support that you need. I think I'm really relying here, I have an executive director, so I'm really relying on them for strategies. I have my CEO for finances and we have a wonderful team of executive directors to give all their expertise and I really want to make sure that I, even if I'm not leading on all of these areas, that I understand how they work because they're all important parts of the puzzle, especially finances. Actually seeing what things cost.

and not just thinking, I want this, I'm just coming in to lead on the artistic side because it's much more complex nuance than that.

Jared Redick (06:53)
It sounds like you are making a lot of data-driven decisions, even when you're talking about programming a season. Can you talk a little bit about how that overlap happens between the business part and the artistic part with how you're approaching curating a season?

Aaron Watkin (07:09)
that's interesting because we're putting together a five-year business plan. Part of that is the artistic plan. So we are planning it simultaneously. So first of all, we're looking at our strategies of what we, we're our new, you know, our revised or evolved vision now is about opening up the possibilities of ballet to move more people in more ways, whoever and wherever they are. And also about feel more with ENB, the power of the emotional.

connection that we can have with people in our art form. Everyone feels that you don't even have to understand the content, be impacted, right? So it's really building on that and then targeting what parts of this country we want to make sure we're covering as much of the country as we can. We want to be inclusive, have a culture that's welcoming and generous and diverse. Also seeing really

diversity representation and all of the different departments here really working towards that. So there's strategic, it's about having a strategic plan basically on every level, even artistic.

Jared Redick (08:14)
This is so refreshing to hear, right? This is the kind of conversation you hear from Fortune 500 companies in terms of strategy and building a business around their product. And obviously we have an artistic product in the ballet world with all the performances that we present. So this is fantastic. I'm excited for you.

Aaron Watkin (08:32)
I'm actually learning a lot. feel like I know my area of expertise, so I'm quite secure and confident in that. But I must say I'm learning so much more about all the other intricacies and all the other departments and how they feed into each other the expertise that I wasn't so aware of previously. So it's interesting because you're always growing and developing and learning. Even at my age, I feel like the learning aspect is very important.

And I wanna make sure that I take my time and consider and collaborate and really use the expertise of my team in order to make the best possible decisions together with them.

Jared Redick (09:14)
Again, that's such a refreshing perspective that you're bringing to this and bringing to the audience right now that I think what you said earlier about you have these fabulous dancers who might move into the artistic director position, but maybe don't have the formal education to support them in the role. it's so wonderful. Well, mean, you know, we start dancing right out of high school, lot of us from age 18, 19, 20. So when is there time to get that formal education? It's challenging to find that time.

Aaron Watkin (09:43)
It is and it's also like artistically you have to be confident and you have to push the envelope and you have to take risks. You can't fall into just doing the big classics that sell the best all the time. You have to forge innovation, respect tradition, but you have to find a nice balance in how to do it. And even if you're wanting, obviously you're wanting to do different things, to be as informed as possible to make those things, sell them in the best way that they possibly, you possibly can and have them received.

in that way. So if we're working towards right now, let's just say really targeting a 20 to 35 year old audience, trying to grow that because that was the area on our data that was the least popular. had younger and we had older, but this area we want to work on. So looking for also things that will appeal to them and also how we interact with them because all the generations now

as you know, are very different. They're brought up with different sensibilities, different ways of thinking and moving in this world. And it's important that you understand that in order to connect with them. I can't just think, I'll make a program for this age group when I really don't know them.

Jared Redick (10:55)
really

making so many informed decisions and sounds very data driven in terms of the demographics that you're trying to support and also reach. Because sometimes the arts, right, we always do have the challenge of making the art form accessible to as many people as possible.

Aaron Watkin (11:13)
And that's none of our main goals right now, right? So it's like, I've had so many people come to the performances and they almost apologize. They'll say, ⁓ I didn't understand really. I need to do more research, but I just loved it. And I said, well, that's enough. And you need to feel, you know? And if you are getting an energy and you're, I really want an eclectic group of dancers with individual personalities. And I like to celebrate those personalities, not look for kind of

a uniformity in the classical work obviously, but not the same look, the same feel, the same interpretations. I want to see different things every night I go to the theater inside the context of the choreography. Yeah, it's been, we've got a very diverse group of dancers here now, all different types of strengths and all with something very special that really complement each other.

Jared Redick (12:07)
It's such a fresh take in terms of cultivating and curating all of your dancers and how that impacts the repertory that you're bringing. So I'd love to kind of switch gears and go into a different topic, kind of the nuts and bolts of what the podcast really is. One of the areas is kind of pulling back the curtain on the audition and hiring process for you. How many dancers are currently in the company?

Aaron Watkin (12:32)
So we have 65 dancers permanently in the company, but we do flex and grow. We've got a program where we've just launched this year with English National Ballet School that's called the GAP program. And it's an extra year between the school and company. It's sort of their fourth year where we not only just use them in performances, but we've really put together a dynamic, vibrant program where they're getting professional experience here with us.

and then in between back at the school doing really specific training there. And we've also got something called My First Ballet, which is this year is going to be Cinderella. We're making a new production that is really to go out across the country to inspire three, four, five year olds, six year olds, people to become dancers and get involved with our art form. And the GAP students make their.

So it's almost like a little junior company there. They're going out across the country. They rehearse, they perform, they stay in their company format and get that type of experience as well. So yeah, we could, sorry, I kind of diverse, but we could go up there probably to about 80. And then we, depending on the production, we take in extras as well to do some of the character roles or if we need acrobats and certain things or whatever.

kind of artists we need to support the program.

Jared Redick (13:56)
fun that you're thinking about acrobats in the ballet. great. Have that flexibility to bring that in. In that 65 that you're talking about, minus the school, does that include apprentices? Do you have apprentices?

Aaron Watkin (14:07)
So no, we don't have apprentices. something we are considering, but we wanted to focus on this program. Of course, everything costs money and where we're placing our money in very different economic times, difficult economic times, we decided to focus on rather sort of more like a junior company for this My First and then this GAP training program.

Jared Redick (14:31)
Well, that sounds like a great strategy for your company and for the dancers and really supporting the school and what's going on there.

Aaron Watkin (14:37)
Yes,

that's really since Lynn's come in as well. really, also with Viviana, I've supported her, but she was only there for one year while I was here. And I really want to support Lynn in her vision. We really line up well on our vision of ballet and dance. And it's been wonderful working with the kids from the school.

Jared Redick (14:54)
We know it's so important that the school to company pipeline is robust as it possibly can be, because that supports the school, it supports the company, it supports the community that it exists within.

Aaron Watkin (15:06)
And also when you think, I mean, if people don't know the nitty gritty, but English National Ballet School, English National Ballet in the same city, obviously, even if they're not officially, you know, the same institutions, we should really be using the infrastructure in the best way we can to support each other.

Jared Redick (15:25)
For the dancers, how many weeks of work do they have?

Aaron Watkin (15:28)
So we have 46 weeks a season, then we have holidays. We have a very intense Christmas period at the Coliseum. I think we deliver something over 40 performances, Nutcracker, and usually go into another bill. And then we would have two weeks off there, and then we have a break in the summer as well. But we're working fully for 40, and they're paid the whole year.

Jared Redick (15:50)
46 weeks is a lot for a dancer. If you think about a 52 week year, six weeks off might, I mean that tracks with other businesses, but doing something so physical, the body does need rest. If you think about professional sports, you think about football, basketball, baseball, any of the sports, their seasons are much shorter than 46 weeks.

Aaron Watkin (16:09)
Yeah, and also, you know, back in the day when I was here, think we, I can't remember how many performances we had. I think over 200 performances. Wow. was really intense. Yeah. We have now about 140 main stage performances, but then alongside that, we have a whole engagement program. We have Ballet Active and our digital programs online. We have through the engagement, ENB Youth Co.

We have E &B Elders Program, we have Dance for Parkinson's, which we're industry leading in, we have Dance for Dementia, we have a Saturday Club for younger dancers, we have separate from that under Artistic Ballet Futures, which is a pipeline to inspire young dancers from traditionally underrepresented backgrounds to get involved in our art form at the earliest possible age. That's also feeding not just.

that's feeding the UK. So we've got a lot of it through that different performances going on in and outside of our studio, open door, you know, just we have something also once a season I do the, started this season something called Studio Sessions to support young choreographers. And then the alternate years we have a program that Tamara launched called Emerging Dancer, which is highlighting some of the young talent and giving them a chance to shine. So I would say we're pretty busy.

Yeah.

Jared Redick (17:32)
I mean, I'm learning so much about your organization. I had no idea you all did as much as what you're describing. So kudos to the whole organization for making that happen and being such an integral part of the community, to the UK, because it sounds like this is a whole UK strategy that you are laying out.

Aaron Watkin (17:51)
Well, I mean, and also we've just recently moved to East London, right? We're out in Canning Town, London, City Island. And so we really want to connect with our community here as well that hasn't, I mean, we've only been here for, since 2019, I believe. And it's a very diverse, dynamic, growing demographic here and community. yeah, we have to also, we're in a new place now. So we have to also think about what that means and how we can.

connect with our communities here. But it's exciting. Actually, that's what I say when I fell under the water when I first came here. Obviously, we have our own director, Darbyshire Fox, who's excellent to lead our engagement program, but even remembering how much we do, the programs, their names, what's involved, that took me a long time because it's a whole world sort of beside my artistic programming. But now we really want in our new launch.

to let people know and communicate that ENB is not just a performing company, it's a company, it's an all encompassing with engagement and performances, artistic planning, it's equally important and we wanna give equal visibility to it all.

Jared Redick (18:59)
You think about ballet companies and the school and the outreach programs and the community programs. It really is all about education, right? Even the company, what they're doing, you are educating the audience, you're uplifting your communities, you're informing them about different ways to look at dance and art on the stage.

Aaron Watkin (19:17)
It's a longevity, you know. We don't want to be an art form that somehow loses connection with the people in the future. We want to be growing and forging a vibrant future. Also where people realize the power of dance, you know. Just anyone can dance. Everyone can enjoy movement. It's good for your body, your soul, your mind, you know. So it's an art form that we can connect with every single person.

Jared Redick (19:43)
I agree, completely agree. Thinking about dancers coming into the company, when a dancer sends their audition materials to you all, right? They want to be a part of your company. What is your process? Who sees their materials and when do you see it? That's always the question I'm interested in.

Aaron Watkin (19:59)
So what we try to do, I want to be also really transparent with young dancers who are spending a lot of money to come sometimes overseas or traveling to be with us. So it depends on how many contracts we have free. And then also a lot of times I'll just communicate with them. We don't have a contract right now, but I'm happy to consider you for the future. Cause I really keep dancers in my mind.

But you can apply online. You can send and follow this format, the standard format that was put out with, says you have to send a video, you have to send a few lines of your CV, you have to send some pictures. And then we go through that. And then I would select the dancers that I'd like to bring here to audition. And usually we ask them to stay for at least two days because I find it very hard to watch someone in a class and decide what their abilities are.

So usually we would reserve some time after the class to work with them and seeing them over a few days, you get different impressions, also for them to get a good impression of us. So I think it's like that we're not organizing a big open call audition. I did that many years in Dresden and it's not very effective. think I did one, 800 people came by the time I got to the last class, you can't just even remember who you've seen and you can't give the type of attention you need.

So yeah, it's kind of personalized season to season, but there's a general way of applying online here.

Jared Redick (21:26)
Just talking with Septim the other day and he said the same thing about these mass auditions. It's a good idea in theory, but the reality of it is you have so many dancers, you can't see them. It's not fair to them. They're all traveling. They're spending so much money and you really can't do your job is trying to find the right dancers who will fit into your organization. It works.

Aaron Watkin (21:47)
both ways. also, yeah, just I think equally important for us is that I've had dancers say, I really want to come and I would take a contract. said, come to London, see our studios, feel the atmosphere, spend some time with the dancers, make sure you know exactly what you're signing up to. Just segueing for me, equally important to the content and the programming is the culture. And I've spent a lot of time, that's the first layer.

I always focus on is trying to get the culture in the right way. And once that's working, it seems to just take over and you, as people come in, they understand it right away. You don't have to really talk them through it. They feel it because it's all working in a clear way.

Jared Redick (22:33)
think it's so important to what you're talking about, the environment that you're setting the tone of the culture that everyone kind of understands the expectations that are there and something that's effective and something that works for you and hopefully works for the dancers as well. And that takes a minute. Culture shift can be very challenging. And again, those are thinking about change management processes and there are techniques to do that effectively. The arts world.

is behind the business world in terms of that. Even the idea of change management within a non-profit organization might be a newer idea, but it's so important because in the past you've had artistic directors go in and just want to change things just because. That's just their point of view. And so it's great that you're being very open to how that process is unfolding for your company. Going back to the audition process, when you're in an audition or when you have dancers come into the company,

and they're taking company class, you're getting to know them. What qualities catch your eye?

Aaron Watkin (23:35)
Generally, there's different aspects. Besides, one aspect will be getting to know them and speak to them and hearing them and their ideas and how you think that they would fit into this vision. In the studio, the things that will stand out right away to me, number one is musicality, general coordination, their attention to detail when they're given corrections, how that process of.

receiving, processing, like digesting, executing, and then retaining also the information. That's why I like to work with them afterwards as well. I think those would probably be the main things to me upfront. So Pity Allegro, I will be looking a lot. I love to watch Pity Allegro because usually I can see everything in that. I can see musicality, coordination, everything in one exercise.

people and a lot of schools don't focus on that. So there might be the element that they're not used to it. That's why I would take them away. But rhythms and dynamics.

Jared Redick (24:36)
Right. And you're talking about, you've seen the dancers, you're interested in them, and then you work with them. What does that look like for you? Are you giving them repertory? Are you actually physically, you know, working through sections? What does that look

Aaron Watkin (24:48)
Very

different for different people. But generally I would go in and maybe repeat a little bit of some of the information they had in class, talk to them about things and see how they respond to that, give them more opportunities. Sometimes I might do a little bit of a variation, not running a whole thing, but work on it just to see how that depends. Also, if I'm looking at a soloist or corda ballet, but I think I would just, I don't have one.

recipe, it would be feeling the room, what I think I need from them. And sometimes it might be just coming down and spending a bit more time to talk to them. Because some people I feel like I could feel at what zone they're in if they're just really no young and yes, Mr. Watkin and like kind of scared to say anything. Or if they're more mature soloists.

Jared Redick (25:39)
Right, mean it's again hiring a dancer or being a dancer in a company, I should say it's all about that chemistry who fits into the culture of the company. It's what you were saying, it's just they have to fit in. You have to have a company that has dancers that work well together. We work too closely, not just the dancers but with the artistic staff and the other greater staff of the organization. So if someone doesn't really fit in with that, that makes it very challenging for everybody.

Aaron Watkin (26:07)
Yeah, and that's actually exactly what you say. That's so important on all levels. So the artistic team and the dancers equally, and that, you know, the dancers are expected to come in. There's a collaboration is at the kind of core of everything. Of course, you've got your reputateurs, the stagers that are setting it, and you're learning and respecting the information that they're giving you, equally how they deliver to you. We have a whole agreement of conduct.

and a dignity in the workplace that we've updated that will be sent by in the contracts to the creative externals. But as soon as they get here the first day, everyone is sat down, gone through, make sure they understand it. Our whole team and our dancers all know exactly what that's about. and there's many ways that they can get support, report anything. There's many different venues for them. So it's quite a.

I think open, positive, creative, generous type of culture.

Jared Redick (27:06)
love to hear the idea of having a code of conduct like that. This seems to be a theme that I've talked with so many directors about over the course of the last several weeks of interviewing everybody, that how that positive change is happening within the dance world. It is a very different place than when I was a dancer in a company where you didn't have as much agency to speak truth to power so much. Even if you're in a union company, there were different expectations and I think what I'm hearing

It's such a positive, very welcome change and long overdue. Great that Ian B is following suit and that you are-

Aaron Watkin (27:44)
I think a lot of them, are. But I think what we've also invested, it was here previously they had a position, but we also kind of revised it and looked at it as a sort of performance coach and slash artistic development slash mental health support. And we have a person full time here who's available to the dancers 24 hours a day. Plus we have a wonderful medical team. I mean, when I came in here, I couldn't believe

the facilities and the care that the dancers have here and I'm very proud of that. you know, the physical and equally mental support is so important for athletes. Because besides being artists, we are athletes and it's a difficult profession and there's lots of intricacies to it and lots of anxiety and, you know, stress that comes along with that. So.

could be supporting the dancers just on giving them short-term and long-term goals, checking in day to day with them on how they can achieve that. Also not being like babysitter more, really giving them the tools to improve themselves and develop. And so that side, I feel like they've got a lot of great support here.

Jared Redick (28:58)
I think when you're talking about that, I think about sports because they've had performance coaches for years and years and years, but as we know, there's a lot more funding for sports. It's great that your organization is able to invest in having that kind of support for the dancers and giving them different tools than just technique classes and rehearsals and all the things that you do in a company.

Aaron Watkin (29:21)
Yeah, because what's interesting is in a lot of countries, they don't consider dancers athletes. When I was in Germany, they weren't actually, as far as the healthcare was concerned, considered athletes. So the athletes in Germany get really great access to so much support and you can go away if you're injured to these special places to rehab and get every kind of training and mental and physical health.

And we actually managed to get one that was for soccer or football, whatever you call it here. And she went along and she had that for a month and she said it was just incredible. So that was trying to shift and really lobby towards getting dancers recognized as athletes because I think people often forget that we.

Jared Redick (30:09)
The athletic part is so integral to what you do on a daily basis. We are artists first and foremost, but the physical, the athletic part is part and parcel of all of that. And so having that extra healthcare is so important and wonderful that they're getting it there. We're talking about mental health and we know how important that is for the wellbeing of the dancers. And I would love to know what kind of habit or mindset served you throughout your career in various capacities.

Aaron Watkin (30:36)
from the initiated from myself, mean like just how I dealt with it?

Jared Redick (30:40)
Yeah, how you personally dealt with things.

Aaron Watkin (30:42)
Well, I had issues with my back very young in school. When I was 16, I grew quite a lot in one year and I slipped a disc and I had to go to the Canadian Back Institute, which was kind of a new thing at that time and learn this new Pilates sort of floor work training that had just come up. But basically I think it made me at a young age start to really think about my injury and the way I work. I always warmed up really well before taking care of my body. I always worked.

out and did things outside of the studio. In the Dutch National, when I was a dancer there, we had an excellent medical team, like physiotherapists. And in other companies, we were really limited. We hardly had anything. So I would just try to find it externally, find my osteopath. But I always had that approach to taking care of my body and my mind. But here, it's like a dream. You just come in and you, I remember thinking, gosh, I was trying for so long in Germany.

We had a tiny little room. had one physio, well two, but they alternated. So it was one and he'd go in for like 15 minutes and they did their best and they were good, but we really had nothing. Here we have thankfully through our supporters that wanted to focus on mental and physical health support. We have a gym with a full gym. They've got personal trainers. They've got physiotherapists. They've got Pilates. They've got everything right there at their disposal.

So, and our big part of our team is traveling with us when we go on tours as well. So they've really got a lot of support in that respect, which is usually not as easy in a lot of places, just to do with funding too and money.

Jared Redick (32:23)
It's always funding and you're talking about, you know, when dancers join the company or people join your organization, the holistic care is built into your structure. It's fantastic. Just really fantastic.

Aaron Watkin (32:35)
It's part of the DNA.

Jared Redick (32:37)
When you were a younger dancer, did you ever imagine yourself becoming an artistic director?

Aaron Watkin (32:42)
It's funny because when I was a dent, I started out quite young as a tap dancer just in my local town because my sister was doing tap. then I kind of got my teacher said, you should do a bit of ballet. And then I just tagged along to this audition. got into the national ballet school and it just sort of took off. kind of just got roped into ballet. I was not very big on it and I didn't want to do it. I loved tap dancing.

So cheeky enough when I went to the National Ballet School that I said I only wanted to come if they would let me do tap dancing. So they sent me out like three times a week to a local tap school. And then we had Flamenco was integrated in and that kept me going. A few years then of course I got more interested in it. But I never felt like 100 % ballet was my calling, which you feel with a lot of dancers that that's really their thing. I enjoyed it. I think I enjoyed much more

sort of neoclassical and contemporary when I joined Forsythe Company, that felt really natural to me. In the classics, I felt like I was never good enough. My expectations didn't line up with how it went. And I was always behind the scenes, even in school, planning productions, rehearsing on the side with dancers, loving like putting the casting together, working on the choreography. I loved all that side. So I think, yeah, I felt that.

I didn't know how I was gonna be a director. I remember sitting one day thinking, they're not gonna knock on your door, but somehow I just kept that in my mind and I knew somehow I would get there one day.

Jared Redick (34:19)
And here you are. Is this your second or third company directing?

Aaron Watkin (34:22)
This is my second. Dresden was my first. I had set a four site program and then I went there after that. And now this is my second.

Jared Redick (34:31)
It was in the cards. You had those skill sets. You knew that might be a path for you. You hopefully would become the path for you in the future. Yeah. And think about your company now. You're doing your five year planning, artistic planning, the strategic planning. What's a dream project or collaboration that you'd love to bring to ENB? And I'm sure there things you can't share, but maybe there's something you could share.

Aaron Watkin (34:54)
I think it's a long-term vision, so it's not a site specific to one project. There's many exciting projects that I'd be interested in doing. And it really varies from, one part of it is

respecting sort of the classical traditional element, keeping that alive, finding ways to make it fresh and more relatable to our audiences today. And above that now, just focusing on signature works that have a legacy with ENB. So we're bringing back Kenneth McMillan's Sleeping Beauty. That's what we're rehearsing right now. We're the only company in the world to have it. I didn't even know Kenneth had a Sleeping Beauty. I think a lot of people didn't know that.

And then thinking in the future, you know, we've got Romeo and Juliet from Nureyev. created it here, even though the Paris Opera has it was done for London Festival. We have a Les Sulfides from Peter Shofar. There's lots of different fabulous signature works. And then really forging innovation with young, dynamic, new choreographic voices, diverse voices with different representation, lots of things we're considering. And then looking for new full lengths.

Like maybe titles that aren't as known in the ballet world, but known in the world, or brand new titles that don't exist, new stories, new compositions. So all those different types of projects really interest me equally in different ways. And as I'm now, I had two meetings today with projects in years to come, and they're so different.

But they're equally interesting. And I think that's what I want to serve to my dancers and to our audience is that type of diversity, you know, moving through this all encompassing spectrum of dance and just celebrating the beauty of dance and not being a camp. We're more classical because somehow classical is more elevated and everyone can do modern. No, I think it's equally all very, very intricate to be a sophisticated modern dancer, a classical dancer.

The same elements are feeding you. You know, your musicality, your artistry, your coordination, your imagination, it's all the same. So I just want to open us up to be contemporary in the sense, not contemporary repertoire, but today's type of dance company.

Jared Redick (37:17)
I share your perspective, but also your thought about having new stories, that we need new stories in ballet. And I love Swan Lake and Giselle and all the classics. Of course, they're fabulous, they're in the canon, but what are the new stories of today? How are they connecting with today's audiences and tomorrow's audiences where they can find themselves on the stage? They can find themselves through those stories.

Aaron Watkin (37:41)
Yeah, they can relate to themselves because they can actually see themselves on stage in representation as well and ideas. And I think equally, know, the stories, there's always a story and that's what we've been relating to as human beings since day one, right? Around a fire, telling your stories, your tales. But equally can be abstract work, you know, especially for a young audience. If you've got some new choreographers, they're emotional and impactful, but they might not be a story from A to B. Right.

Yeah, that connection you can have emotionally with.

Jared Redick (38:14)
There's so many choreographers that just blow you away and there is no story, but it's the music, it is the movement, it is their idea, it's the arc that they take you on. Even in one act ballet in 20 minutes, you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know that I could feel that.

Aaron Watkin (38:29)
And I think also sometimes in my past when I've done some abstract works, I have a story inside that. We all naturally do. Even if it's abstract, there's something that I'm feeling. It's not just articulating steps. So that's quite interesting. And I think challenging your dancers with that scope is I've always been excited by.

Jared Redick (38:50)
I think you're talking about almost coaching there, how you're speaking about it. How do you find your internal dialogue with any role, any of the repertory that is out there, whether it's classical or neoclassical or contemporary, there's always an inner dialogue that you're having. And I think that that's what's so interesting as an artist to find your own authentic truth in that narration.

Aaron Watkin (39:10)
Yes, absolutely.

Jared Redick (39:11)
Right

at the end, I like to end every interview with our full circle question, which is, what's one piece of advice you'd give your younger self at the start of your professional career?

Aaron Watkin (39:22)
I think I was always sort of looking to the next thing all the time when I was younger. So I didn't fully embrace being in the moment and putting that really day-to-day kind of consistency and work into getting somewhere where I'm seeing sort of the progression over a longer time. I was doing something, but I already thinking, oh, that's next summer. I'm going to go there. I'm going to do that. I want to be in this company. And then I get to this company to be the other one.

So in one side, think just like that kind of having a clear vision, having short-term and long-term goals and really working towards them and realizing that it just takes, I don't say that's the right way either. I moved around a lot and on another side, I enjoyed my experiences in all those companies, in all those countries, in all those cultures. So I feel like I've got a rich sort of past of experiences that

in this job really helps me gain different perspective, like what is normal. I've seen in every country there's something else normal and I've lived through all that. So for me, everything's normal. But I think about getting somewhere, maybe just for my younger self, sticking it out, following things through more, that probably would have been beneficial, but maybe that would have taken me somewhere else.

Jared Redick (40:42)
It's great advice and know, hindsight is 20-20. Aaron, thank you so much for being here today.

Aaron Watkin (40:48)
Thanks. Thank you very much, Jared.

Jared Redick (40:50)
We'll link to English National Ballet's site where you can learn more about the company and follow their upcoming season. If you liked our conversation here today, you can follow Company Secrets Podcast on all platforms and on our website, companysecretspodcast.com. Thank you so much for listening because the stage is only part of the story.