Company Secrets with Gillian Murphy

In this season finale, Jared sits down with the incomparable Gillian Murphy, whose extraordinary 29-year career with American Ballet Theatre made her one of the defining ballerinas of her generation. From Swan Lake to new works by Ratmansky and Wheeldon, Gillian reflects on her remarkable journey—what it means to dance with freedom, the power of presence, and the perspective that comes from a lifetime on stage.

Now retired from performing and serving as Artistic Associate at American Repertory Ballet, she opens up about motherhood, identity, and how she’s channeling her artistry into teaching and leadership. It’s an inspiring, candid conversation about transition, purpose, and what it means to continue growing beyond the spotlight.

Transcript

Jared Redick (00:04)

Welcome to Company Secrets Ballet Unfiltered, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the professional dance world. Each week, I sit down with artistic directors and industry leaders to have candid conversations about how dance companies really work, what they're looking for, how decisions get made, and what it takes to thrive. I'm your host, Jared Redick.

This is the final episode of season one, and I couldn't think of a better way to close out than with my guest today, the incomparable Gillian Murphy, who recently retired after an extraordinary 29-year career with American Ballet Theatre. Gillian's artistry, range, and intelligence have made her one of the defining ballerinas of her generation, from Odette/ Odile and Swan Lake to new creations by Alexey Ratmansky, Chris Wheldon, and Jorma Ello. Originally from South Carolina, and a proud alum of the University of North Carolina School of the Arts, Gillian joined ABT at just 17, rose quickly through the ranks and spent nearly three decades captivating audiences around the world. Recognized with the Princess Grace Award, a BA from St. Mary's, and an honorary doctorate from UNCSA, she now channels her experience into teaching, mentoring, and leadership as the artistic associate at American Repertory Ballet. I'm so grateful to have Gillian here today not just as one of ballet's most accomplished ballerinas, but as a friend and colleague. We'll be talking about her incredible journey, her transition beyond the stage, and what she's discovering about life, leadership, and identity in her next chapter. Welcome, Gillian. Thank you.

Gillian Murphy (01:45)

Jared, thank you so much for inviting me.

Jared Redick (01:48)

I'm so happy to have you here. You've had one of the most extraordinary careers in ballet. You retired this past July after 29 years with ABT. How has it been? What does life look like now? And how are you feeling about it?

Gillian Murphy (02:03)

It was a whirlwind to go out with Swan Lake and all the excitement building up to that last show was really kind of over the top, but it ended up going better than expected. really was exhilarating. The audience was electric for that final show and my peers really were so supportive through my entire final season. And so just recovering from that whirlwind, that excitement, just feeling good that I was able to

Finished strong and I took a little time off. We had a summer vacation planned to Hawaii and to Australia. So my husband, Ethan, Steve Fall and I and our son, Axe, who's now six years old. did some traveling over the summer for a month. And then once we got back, I've actually been really busy. So it's pretty funny because everyone's kind of like, oh, how's your retirement? And picturing me on my couch or doing basically nothing, but I've been really busy.

I've been continuing my work with American Repertory Ballet and staging and coaching Ethan and Johan Kolberg's production of Chiselle. The performances just happened this weekend, so it was amazing to see every step of this process. Usually in the past few years, I've been involved as much as possible, but sort of in and out as I continued my dance career. And so to see it from the very beginning of the rehearsal process to the final performance was pretty special.

Jared Redick (03:26)

Yeah, no doubt. No rest for the weary for you, just right off the stage and you just never stop going. Except for Hawaii, of course.

Gillian Murphy (03:33)

That was a good rest. Yeah, I'm enjoying it though. This is what I love to do. I really do love to be in the studio. I don't need to be dancing myself. Of course, I've always loved that, but I really get so much out of working with other people and helping them find their ways. They create their characters and get their physicality ready for the stage.

Jared Redick (03:52)

Yeah, we had the good fortune of having you here just a couple weeks ago working with our students here and they so enjoyed having you working with them in the studio.

Gillian Murphy (03:59)

Well, thank you. How's it going? They're going well with it?

Jared Redick (04:02)

Yeah, they're doing well. I just had a rehearsal last night. I told them I was going to be speaking with you today and they were like, how does Gillian, how does she become so free on stage? How does she know how to take those risks on stage?

Gillian Murphy (04:15)

⁓

I think that was a big key to my success in my career is that from an early age, I felt completely in my element on stage. As much as I tried to work on every detail and integrate every correction and do as much as I could to prepare to be on the stage and in that rehearsal process to really iron out details, I really do feel free on stage. I let that all go. I assume that my body remembers all that information and

that being on the stage is an opportunity to share this deep love for the art in a very spontaneous and present way. And so just to trust that that process that I've been through to get to this stage is there and not to overthink that, to really allow myself to be free and allow myself to not try to control the outcome of what happens, which can be a little scary to kind of relinquish control, to not feel like it has to go a certain way to accept.

the possibility that could go completely sideways. But that sort of approach really helped me to find a way of feeling in the moment and that anything could happen in possibly a good way on stage.

Jared Redick (05:25)

Every time I've seen you on stage live, that is so evident in your dancing. It is so full and so rich. It's in the moment. You just never know what's gonna happen when I'm watching you in a good way, in the best possible way, not that it's gonna go sideways at any point.

Gillian Murphy (05:39)

No, I appreciate that. And I think it's a bit of a conscious choice as well as a natural inclination. But a choice, having watched other dancers and what I feel inspired by in their dancing is so many things. Obviously, so many beautiful aspects of different dancers to be inspired by. One of the things that really has always stuck out for me is when people change the atmosphere. When they come on stage and you feel...

They're connected with the music and with the story in a way that is really like changing the energy in the entire space. And in order to do that, you actually can't get too caught up in the technical aspects, like just what you're doing. It is more how you're doing it, which I think has to come from a more emotionally charged place.

Jared Redick (06:22)

as well. Such a great perspective about how do you get to that place when you walk on the stage, right? Because it's so easy to get wrapped up in the technical about, I have these elements that I'm going to do or this turn didn't go well or this partnering situation doesn't happen well. You have to be so present and in the moment to allow things to unfold for yourself.

Gillian Murphy (06:41)

Yeah, it's a balancing act as well. And it depends obviously on what type of queer I'm sure you're doing. Yes. Something like theme and variations and so many other ballets, they don't allow maybe as much room for that complete and utter freedom in some moments that you know you have to dial into that technique in like a more sort of mathematical way. But balancing, that sort of scientific mathematical part of your brain with the sheer creative imagination of what we're trying to present.

what we're trying to embody. That's what's so fascinating about this art form is that it requires the athletic, the intelligent, the emotional, like all of these things have to come together in a beautiful synergy.

Jared Redick (07:23)

We always saw that in your dancing. Of course, those who are fortunate to see you dance live in particular, of course, there's plenty of video recordings of you, but your live performances, there's something so special about seeing a dancer live. You just can't get the visceral feeling about what does the audience feel? What does the orchestra bring to it?

Gillian Murphy (07:42)

Yeah, thank you so much. And I completely agree that there's something about live theater that I hope everyone understands that that really is where the magic happens. Of course, we can get so much from watching Instagram and all these beautiful clips and everything. But you know, just seeing Mary Nell and Nunez on Instagram is a thing of sheer beauty. But to see her in a performance is even so much more profound. I hope everyone understands that.

Jared Redick (08:04)

do like the idea of live performances being profound because that's what it feels like when you're there in person. Even if you're going to see a rock concert, it's great. You just have such a different experience. It's that shared experience and we kind of miss that with being connected to our screens so much now. You joined ABT at 17, became a principal at 23. How did you navigate that early visibility and pressure?

Gillian Murphy (08:30)

Yeah, it was a quick trajectory. I was really fortunate to have each role kind of led to the next role in a sense. I know there were some quarter ballet guys after I was already a principal and they went from being the quarter ballet and then they were doing Conrad and like Corsier just right off the bat. And it was like, whoa, that's pressure to really not have a segue of building your confidence and doing featured roles that lead to maybe more featured roles.

For me, starting with roles that I felt were totally in my wheelhouse, maybe the third Odalisque in Corsair, I did get thrown into Mirtou with a couple days notice. So that was a big moment for me where I remember being like, how in the world am I going to do that role that requires so much maturity? But I did have my technique and a natural jump to rely on. in that moment, even at the age of 19, I tried to focus on remembering that I have those things that I've been working on.

the technical side of things since I was three or at least since I was eight or nine essentially in a serious way and to dig into what is this character about. I think I did that from an early point in my career that really helped. I my director had confidence in me that I was going to show up to the stage with a point of view. I think that led to my first film's leading role was Keechree and shortly thereafter it was Odette O'Deal. Then once I was promoted to

principal, I'd actually already done a lot of principal roles before that point in time. And even in being promoted to being principal and having done those roles, I felt like that was a new beginning. So I think that sense of always learning and always feeling like I had a lot more to learn really set me up in the early point of my career to not be overwhelmed by pressure in a way that I knew this was a process. I'm going to do everything I can in this moment. And let's hope that

that gets better over time with hard work and with the fact that I also was aware that the more you grow as a person, the more you'll have to bring to the stage. I feel like one of the keys to my success was that I really did have a sense of perspective from an early age about the fact that it's a process.

Jared Redick (10:45)

I think that's such an important perspective. This whole thing, it's been reiterated by all the directors and everyone I've had on the show this season about how do you have perspective about your career and where you are in your path. You're talking about, sounds to me that you had the good fortune of, as you said, you felt that Kevin was supporting you as you were thrown into these big roles. So you had it on that side, that support. And on the other side, you were able to

be very grounded and go back and say, hey, my technique is under me. can handle these roles technically, but also having the perspective to know that, yeah, it's a process and I'm going to get better. You you're going to learn in that moment and then get better as you go. You have to have faith. If you think about any of these big roles you just mentioned, these ballerinas and dancers, spend their entire career perfecting them, especially something like Odetto Deal or even Ketri.

You know, go back to them over and over and over again and they get deeper and deeper and deeper with more experience.

Gillian Murphy (11:46)

Totally. Also, Murtagh that I've grown into, I ended up doing it for 20 years. And I never got bored with it. It was never easy in emotional sense, in a physical sense, how to portray that character and to hold the stage for epic solo, the being back to you. So yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more with what you said.

Jared Redick (12:03)

Yeah.

Your repertory spanned the full range of classical and contemporary works. How did that range deepen your artistry? Doing a full length one night and a full, you know, contemporary program maybe later on in the season.

Gillian Murphy (12:21)

Yeah, I was so fortunate to have contemporary training in my high school years at North Carolina School of the Arts. And I feel that really set me up for the versatile rep that is par for the course of any great ballet company at this point in time. And I remember dancing Lady in White, Martha Graham's Diversion of Angels. And that was the evening show and the next matinee was Theme and Variations.

Balanchine's theme variation. remember feeling a little bit, this is like really wild for a person's body to go from such drastically different stylistic energetic pieces of being absolutely grounded, more turn-dean, finding those moments of modern dance in Martha Graham's style and then going into Balanchine's fast work and course turnout and all the things that theme variations requires.

Jared Redick (13:11)

a crazy technicality of it. mean, that is such a benchmark.

Gillian Murphy (13:15)

And I do love that ballet though. One reason being I got the chance to dance it when I was 16 at North Carolina School of Arts with Melissa Hayden's intense accretion process. And also at that time she never mentioned and no one told me how hard it was. So it was only when I joined ABT people were acting like, whoa, the immigration is like one of the hardest ballets. And I was like, okay, that explains a lot because I was thinking it was difficult, but

I did four shows in a row at NCSA. And I remember like the third show being like, wow, this seems really hard. But there was no one there to come say, yes, this is hard. There's a reason why it feels difficult. Anyways, I digress. Yeah, in terms of going back and forth between styles, I think you can learn so much from different styles of movement. And that makes your contemporary movement richer. It makes your classical work more layered. I mean, to take it a step further, I feel

As a dancer, we should explore all styles. I also feel that I would encourage young people to go to museums, go to concerts, go to the Carnegie Hall, and really take in as much art as you can from as many different sources and ideally from live performance as you can because that really adds layers to whatever it is you are trying to express through your chosen craft.

Jared Redick (14:40)

Yeah, I completely agree. are human beings and how we interpret the art is only as deep as our experiences are. You know, what is informing my viewpoint and perspective as a human being, not as a dancer. Now, what are my lived experiences? What am I bringing to the stage and to the audience?

Gillian Murphy (14:57)

Absolutely. And for me, when I started to delve into more dramatic roles, having life experience, having those experiences reading great books or seeing artwork at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, those things really do inform how to portray those types of characters.

Jared Redick (15:15)

Recently, some of my students heard you speak at the Wake Forest Dance Medicine Conference, where you talked about pregnancy and motherhood during your performing career, and it really resonated with them. And it's something rarely discussed openly in ballet. So how did pregnancy and motherhood change you as an artist?

Gillian Murphy (15:34)

Well, I think when I was first starting out, I assumed that I might want to wait till I was done dancing to have a baby. And I always knew I wanted to be a mother and want to jump the gun, but to tell my younger self something, it would be really don't have to do that. As long as you have some network of support, obviously, and you feel ready. I actually wish we'd started sooner in terms of trying to have a baby. And I was very lucky that when I was 40,

I got pregnant and had my son. And I think it really deepened my dramatic interpretations and my connection with my emotions and with my level of gratitude for the time that I did have in the studio, which I've always felt incredibly grateful for the opportunity to dance and the privilege that I have had to be a principal dancer with my dream company. There's never been any doubt of that, but being a mother was a dream come true for me.

It also is entirely possible to be a mother and to be a ballerina and for those to not only work together, but I think it actually added layers to artistic interpretations.

Jared Redick (16:44)

had two friends when I was still dancing at Boston Ballet. They both had children and when they came back, their dancing was, they danced better than I'd ever seen them dance before. you know, maybe it's a stigma or maybe it's just a concern or a worry that you'll be looked at differently or you're not going to be able to perform at your best after you have a baby because of the changes with your body, of course. That's great perspective to give that advice to these younger dancers who might be

thinking they should wait until they're older in their careers and put off having children.

Gillian Murphy (17:17)

⁓ I think there's something to be said for perhaps in your 20s that you have the focus on growing in your art and especially if you're in a touring company, it's really the easiest path logistically to balance out being mother and the dancer and also saving in the quarter ballet and balancing those is I think another level of there's a whole difficulty in that. But it is possible. There have been so many great dancers in American Ballet Theater, New York City Ballet.

all over the world to show how that is entirely possible. And as you've said, not only possible, but it might even lead to someone digging even deeper and bringing even more to their, time they have to dance either in the studio or on stage.

Jared Redick (18:00)

It is such a short career and I know that there is such concern about wasting any time, but it's not that it would be wasting time, but taking time away from your perfection of your craft. You've had such a long and demanding career. How did you handle injury and burnout throughout?

Gillian Murphy (18:17)

I was pretty fortunate in terms of injury. I'd say I was actually, I had from a few little muscle strains here and there. It really wasn't until I was in my early 30s that I started having more serious calf strains. And the osteogonoma moved, an extra bone moved from my left ankle area. I'd say burnout, I've been pretty good with that in the sense that I do try to take a day off at least each week.

And try to pace myself when I can so that I don't get to that point of burnout. Right. I mean some seasons are harder than others for sure and you didn't do as many performances of Nutcracker as Boston Ballet. So maybe you could be better to the burnout of that situation. Yeah. not.

Jared Redick (19:03)

Yeah, at another time, but yeah, mean, it's hard when you have those long runs of like Nutcracker, for instance.

Gillian Murphy (19:09)

I long run, think being on Broadway or doing that extra long run of Nutcracker would be another level of how to manage one's energy and that slight sense of burnout. At ABT, it's like we're always on to the next thing and as a principal you get one or two shows of each thing. And so for me, I didn't really grapple with too much of that. With injuries, finding the best physical therapist, lash therapist, acupuncturist, you know, just to add

village of people who I could trust when I felt my body was on the verge of an injury. So taking like a preventative approach to injury as well that there's that moment where you feel like you're about to get injured because you're more than just sore. There's always like a daily aches and pains barometer. But when you know you're being pushed to the limit in a way that might be bordering on injury, making those appointments.

If you have the time and of course the money to do that is extremely helpful. At ABT there is an excellent PT team. So that's always been a wonderful resource, but sometimes it really does help to have an extra hour set aside just for you to either do preventative care. In my case, I found with trial and error and some calf strains that might.

ankles would get a little jammed, my heels would get a little stuck. And so having someone I know that can fix that before I push too hard with my jumping was absolutely key in managing that particular thing that was always kind of coming up for a couple years there. So yeah, just having a team of amazing physical therapists and massage therapists and also cross-training became a thing that I was aware of.

as I got older and I had been doing gyro tonics once a week, which has always been extremely helpful to my body feeling balanced. But kind of stepping up to cross training a little bit is also helpful in terms of managing and avoiding future injury.

Jared Redick (21:14)

It sounds like you've had a great self-care routine for yourself. And that is so good to hear. It is so challenging as dancers to take care of yourself. You just kind of keep throwing yourself into the studio and into the ballets. so prioritizing yourself, your physical and mental well-being, it sounded like such a priority for you, which was kind of something I was going to get to. You know, we grew up in a very different time regarding the whole idea of body image.

of wellness and mental health. Have you experienced a shift in the profession regarding those topics?

Gillian Murphy (21:50)

Absolutely. I mean, in terms of how we take care of our bodies, that has shifted dramatically in the past 29, 30 years. The level of information that we have in terms of physical therapy, terms of nutrition, and how we can better take care of our bodies, how important it is to take care of our minds, our mental and emotional health has been something that really was not talked about when I was growing up. And over the course of my career, I feel like there have been more and more

conversations surrounding that. There are a lot more resources before not only aware that that's critical, taking the initiative to set up those resources as readily available as possible for all dancers.

Jared Redick (22:36)

I've seen that shift as well. It's a very welcome shift that's happening in our industry. Not quickly enough, of course. Some of those issues, you could say, are resource dependent. But I think awareness is at least an important first step. And I think the awareness has risen dramatically, especially over the last 10 or 20 years. Body image is always such an issue. Wellness and mental health. Really, the mental health issue has become put more front and center, especially the last five years. I think COVID

put a fine point on that. All the things that happened around COVID and everyone being disconnected. It's good to see that shift in the profession. And then we hope it continues or I hope it continues in the future that organizations continue to prioritize it, not just by lip service, but by deed and by resource.

Gillian Murphy (23:23)

I think we're moving in the right direction. I think it's changing more and more. I also, as a parent, see how parenting styles have shifted so dramatically in the past 30 years. When I was growing up, I think it was absolutely normal that we were just gonna do as we were told. Like there's no, like, how do you feel about this? Right. Things like that. Just in terms of how we've all been.

raised versus how kids coming up now are being raised is so dramatically different. I think that's helping this next generation feel at ease to voice what they're feeling, what they're thinking, that also feel that they have the agency as professional dancers to have those conversations. I think the next step is actually making sure directors and rehearsal directors who might be from a different generation are as open to it as they say they are.

Jared Redick (24:11)

Exactly. know that the directors that I've spoken to, they all have been very adamant about having an open door policy, especially around, if something's happening that you need to let us know about, let us help you through whatever that issue is versus everyone keeping it to themselves and try to just struggle through it. It is good to hear from all these directors who have come on the show to talk about that. I'm encouraged because that was not my experience for sure.

Gillian Murphy (24:39)

Yeah, it was wonderful to hear. I was very fortunate with my two directors, but from the stories I've heard and of course the sort of general stereotype of the ballet world in the past, it really was a different vibe about how dancers are able to communicate and to prioritize our physical and mental health.

Jared Redick (24:57)

What qualities do you nurture beyond technique?

Gillian Murphy (25:00)

I've been coaching more and more over the years and that's definitely something I'm going to spend a lot of time doing now, something I'm looking forward to very much. And I find myself working a lot on the technique, how to present the footwork and your rotation, the coordination of it all, but really about a palm law, about fingers, eyes, getting to the ends of the toes. But the main thing I want to nurture as a coach really is to get their artistry.

So their connection with the music, how they can match their body and the way they're moving and what they're feeling with the music and how they can share that, how they can express themselves in their own classical, if it's a classical variation, an individual way.

Jared Redick (25:45)

Could you give an example? I'd be curious, like when you're coaching someone, you just finished Giselle. Like when you're working with perhaps Myrta, for instance. Do you work with imagery with the dancers? Beyond the technique. We're talking about beyond the technique here.

Gillian Murphy (25:58)

Yeah, absolutely. I I encourage them to try their own images because so much that happens on stage, it needs to come from within. I can encourage them, say as Myrta, that this is a vengeful spirit who, when she first enters the forest, this is her space and she is preparing this space. It's sort of a conjuring up of like spells and...

like rituals to get it ready for all these other spirits of dead women who have been absolutely wronged. There's a book, Gravitas. Myrta is filled with such rage. That's what keeps her going. She's haunting the forest for an eternity because she was so deeply wronged. So how do you put that into like an arabesque pot of array? It's tricky. So it doesn't have to happen with like every single moment that you have to be thinking like all this stuff, but

Knowing who the character is really changes the energy. There's an energetic shift that happens with different characters. So being aware of that so you don't suddenly do a mirror to entrance and it's pure joy is not what is driving her.

Jared Redick (27:10)

sounds like you're helping your dancers understand the lore of their character.

Gillian Murphy (27:15)

Yes, I try to, and it's a lot of fun. It really is. I was also coaching a brand new Giselle this season and to watch from the first couple days where she was just finding her way and then she just gave these glorious performances this weekend. And it was such a pleasure to watch that process and to be a part of it. To also witness Ethan, my husband, giving just the most incredible feedback that would help guide her as well.

from technical sense, but also in terms of finding her way into that character and what that character is all about. So to be part of the process in terms of sharing my own thoughts, but also witnessing how she took on different feedback.

Jared Redick (27:56)

and such a great coach as well. We've worked together a couple of times and I've seen him work with our dancers and he had such great insight and approaches. He just threw a pleasure. Kind of honored to like witness that as I really appreciate all that he brings into the studio. Of course, and his depth of experience and his career and all of that. As someone who's seen leadership up close at ABT and well beyond ABT, what do you think makes a great artistic director today?

Gillian Murphy (28:10)

Likewise.

It's tricky. mean, a great artistic director in the United States has a particular challenge because, I mean, I think with any company worldwide, of course, there are financial concerns and restraints, but to be a director in this country, you have to be strategic and savvy. think any great artistic director, possibly worldwide, but definitely in United States, has to have a business sense as well as an artistic sense.

know, the two directors I've worked with at ABT were so incredible, so incredibly supportive. I mean, I certainly felt that support as a principal dancer, but also really encouraged an atmosphere where people support each other rather than, I think, in some companies, there's more of a competitive energy where it's not as friendly or welcoming or supportive. Perhaps I haven't.

personally experienced that, I did guess that the Mariinsky, that had a different energy to it for sure than ABT. So to answer your question though, in terms of what makes a great artistic director, think so many factors. Being a leader who can be honest with the dancers and kind, to have a vision about the future of the company and also to push, to challenge the dancers as well.

and to give the audience something they want to see, but also to perhaps sprinkle in some things that might challenge the audience as well. And so there's just like 10 million things that the directors have to factor in there, and Gilsap is huge.

Jared Redick (30:00)

It is a daunting challenge to be an artistic director, to be in nonprofit sector with all the fundraising that is required to allow for them to execute their vision for the company and support the company. think that's 100 % the situation for directors in the U.S. After 29 years performing, how did you know it was time?

Gillian Murphy (30:16)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's wild.

Once the pandemic started, I was spending all day every day with my eight-month-old and watching him learn how to, he was crawling at that point. I'd just gotten back on the stage with Giselle, but learning, he was learning how to walk, how to talk, all those things. So I was able to see every single moment of those initial things that he was learning as like a one-year-old. It was so great. And meanwhile, I saw it to myself professionally. I think I'm past 40.

And I've had an amazing run, zero regrets about my career. So I think it might be time to wrap things up, know? Is it okay? Like, I feel really good about my career, you know? And this is the time, I guess, I've just been sitting around, even crawling around with my son basically for months, but not doing anything beyond a few bars in my kitchen during the pandemic. So I thought it was probably time. And I had a conversation with Kevin McKenzie.

to let him know that I was thinking about it and it might very well be time to wrap things up. He said, I appreciate that you might be feeling that way right at this moment, but why don't you give it some time? He was like, do feel you have more years in you and you have a lot to offer at this point with your experience in these roles. As it turned out, once I got back in the studio, actually felt way better than expected and I also was reminded of, I already knew how much I love to dance, I really.

just felt so strongly like, would I walk away from this when I am feeling good? Not embarrassing myself quite yet. So to try to savor these last maybe couple of years. Then, so I had that conversation with Susan when she became the director that it was on my mind and I wanted to retire feeling strong, feeling good. So I just felt like it was the right time to retire of my own volition, feeling that I could still do what I love to do.

at a certain level.

Jared Redick (32:18)

Again, you've had such an amazing career and gosh, to be able to dance as late as you did in your life, it's a real privilege to do that. And the audiences have been so lucky to have witnessed you for 29 years on the stage, delivering such amazing performances, Gillian. Thanks.

Gillian Murphy (32:35)

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Jared Redick (32:37)

Well, I mean, it's true. Who's going to argue with me? No one's going to argue with me about that. You've had such an amazing performance career, as I was just saying. Is there a performance that you'd relive?

Gillian Murphy (32:47)

⁓ I don't know. Actually, two of the most exciting performances were Ethan's final performance. And what was exciting about that was the energy he brought to the stage and the whole audience was just so pumped. And also I was dancing Corsair with Ethan and Marcel Gomez and then Stella Bear and Sasha Rudetsky were the Golnar and Langadam. So aside from everyone else in the cast who I love.

so dearly. It was really just one of those moments where we're just having a blast. The energy in the theater was off the charts. So that would be one of them if I was going to go back and just be in that moment again. Certainly this last performance that I just did almost three months ago was one that I'll savor for a long time to come. But one of the things I really love most about this art form is the ephemeral nature of it. That it happens. Something so special happens in life.

performance and that's it. You had to be there. So in a sense, I wouldn't go back and relive those shows, although those shows do stick out to me as being really so special personally and professionally in so many ways.

Jared Redick (33:58)

That's awesome. We are in a live art form. We want to be there in that moment, right? We don't need to record it and then kind of go over and over. It's just to be there was the thing to do for sure.

Gillian Murphy (34:09)

One of my least favorite things to do is watch myself dance on video. So I just love the feeling of dancing. I really appreciate that. seems especially most recently in my last show, the audience appreciated that as well.

Jared Redick (34:22)

I could imagine that's the case, that the audience felt that way, that they very much appreciated your show. After stepping off the stage, retirement can bring such a shift in identity for dancers. What's exciting you most about your next chapter, your new chapter that you're starting now?

Gillian Murphy (34:38)

Well, think my friend, Brantley Shapiro said, you know, maybe it's not retirement because I'm pretty busy actually. It's more a transition. So I've been looking at, like you said, as a transition. But I have been coaching for a long time now in teaching. So, you know, it's only been three months, but I don't feel like a loss of identity that I'm somehow not the person I used to be. That hasn't happened to me yet. So that sounds extremely confronting.

Maybe it'll hit me in the next few months. But I feel like perhaps one of the keys to my success as a dancer was that I took the art form and continue to take the art form very seriously. And I have always tried to do my best in every moment. But my value as a person is not tied to how a performance goes or if I'm having a bad day as a dancer.

I can't do in my case, like an adagio moment as well as I might wish to. That's not a defining feature in my sense of identity. ⁓ In that respect, I feel like this transition might not be as tricky for me as it might be for some other people who are so deeply intertwined in their identity. The main thing is maybe the dancer aspect. Of course, that's a huge part of me, but so far I feel good.

just incredibly grateful for the career that I've had. I always knew that there'd be an end to it. So that was the bittersweet realization from early on. From the moment I started, I knew the days were numbered and so to really seize the moment as much as possible. So yeah, just really enjoying sharing what I can with the next generation. And I've really found so much fulfillment in that over the years and particularly in the past couple months.

Jared Redick (36:26)

That's such great perspective again. I guess I keep using the word perspective on how we're having our conversation here. It's so healthy to hear you talk about your identity is not defined by your dancing, so to speak, of it being the end all and be all. It is one aspect of who you are, but it is not everything that again, if a show didn't go your way, you're completely destroyed or crushed over that. You just keep moving on.

You use it as a learning experience and move on to the next thing versus being devastated until you can hit the stage again. I love that you have that perspective. It's so healthy. And all that I know about you, Gillian, is that you are so grounded and you're so intelligent about how you think about the art form and dancing. So thank you for sharing that.

Gillian Murphy (37:14)

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Jared Redick (37:15)

We have alluded to this, that it is now time for our full circle question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to your younger self at the start of your professional career?

Gillian Murphy (37:25)

Well, I feel like I was pretty grounded. had a sense of perspective early on and that helped me out a lot in my career, particularly in getting started. But one piece of advice, I cross-training would be something I could have started a little earlier. I really only started it when I realized that would be beneficial to avoiding injuries. But I think it could have been something I would have started earlier. Just also because that first year,

As a professional, I do believe it's one of the trickiest years for any one transition. Nowadays, there are all these trainee programs and second companies. I think that's a really critical segue. For me, I joined directly from school into the quarter valley. And so I didn't have that moment to transition into the professional environment. Like it was a quick transition there. But I think for me in that first year as a professional, because I didn't get to do the quarter valley roles.

right away as most dancers in the company, you know, it takes a minute to get cast in those roles. So cross training would have been a really helpful thing as I was busy learning a lot of material but not dancing nearly as much as when I was in school and doing, know, Western Symphony and Concerto Baroque and every other ballet that we did constantly. So there's that moment of transition that I think I was

pretty good about keeping a sense of perspective and taking some downtime for myself, but I think I could have also just worked in a little bit of extra cross-training as I wasn't dancing, wasn't actively dancing as much as I have been in school.

Jared Redick (38:59)

That is great advice for young dancers as we know more about sports science that supports all of our physical endeavors that we do within ballet and the dance profession. Gillian, thank you so much for being here today. If you liked our conversation here today, you can follow Company Secrets Podcast on all platforms and on our website, companysecretspodcast.com. Thank you for listening because the stage is only part of the story.

Gillian Murphy (39:12)

Thank you so much.