Throne of Glass Episode 1

Throne of Glass, Crown of Midnight, and Assasins Blade. It's all here and we're ready to talk about it. In our own need to download all of our thoughts that have been STEWING over this incredible series... may be the impossible task but we're ready to take it on. So, here's part one : the first 3 books of this 8 book series. And Yes, don't worry no spoilers for the whole series...yet. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Alright, hi bookworms. I'm Kate.

SPEAKER_04 0:04

And I'm Jess.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

And this is Books, Bruce, and Banter. If you're here, hi. Hello. We love to talk about all things books-ish. And on today's episode, we're going to be trying to do the impossible and talk about the Throne of Glass series that you probably have heard Jess rave about in some of our previous episodes.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

Always and forever.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

But we're going to break it down a few books at a time, which is why it's probably the impossible task. Today we're going to try and cover three of the Throne of Glass books, the first three, which are the Assassin's Blade, Throne of Glass, and Crown of Midnight. So buckle up if you have a lot of feelings and zero chill, which is what Jess would probably describe herself as when coming into this series. You're not wrong. Throne of Glass is a big um project to tackle with a podcast. I'm sure you've heard a lot about it, probably on book talk, Instagram, all the things.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Which is one of the reasons why I wanted to dive into it. We fell in love with it. I fell in love with it last year because Jess fell in love with it first and pushed it on me relentlessly.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

Listen, if I'm traumatized by a book, you're gonna be traumatized by a book.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Emotional damage bonding.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

We love trauma bonding.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yes, we do. And this is honestly a good series to do it with. If you've never read a Sarah J. Mass book, you are in for a treat in the best way. She's such a great writer. Everyone waves about her for good reason. She's actually a really talented writer.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

So here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Jumping in.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

All right. So the plot summary, we're gonna break this down like book by book. We were going over all three, but we'll break it down book by book. So The Assassin's Blade, the summary is basically following Selena before the main series. Um, her life as she's actually working as the assassin, she's running jobs for the Assassin's Guild. It who the lead guy of that, by the way, like most manipulative man ever in fiction that I've read thus far. Air, and we're coming after you.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Be prepared.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

She's actually an assassin. Yeah. You have no idea. Um in this one, also, we finally meet and kind of understand Sam Cortland better. We fall in love with him. We shouldn't, because it'll break your heart. Um, but if you have not, like if you read this one after you read the TAG series, it'll break your heart more. Highly recommend. Um instead of reading it before. You'll have a better understanding of Tog if you read it before.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Don't do it. So, timeline-wise, uh, Assassin's Blade is technically the first book. It's a prequel. Um, so it's like like Jess said, it's Selena Sardian's story before Thorn of Glass actually starts. So, Throne of Glass, the title of the book, uh, is the title book series beginner. But Sarah J. Mass actually recommends reading Assassin's Blade third. And Jess and I both read Assassin's Blade last. And so, what I will say personally is that I do agree with her recommendation of reading it third, only because it gives you some much needed context for the rest of the series. Obviously, read wherever you want to. However, I would say it's helpful character and plot-wise to read it third or first, but you'll probably get the most emotional damage effect if you read it third.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

I completely agree with that. And let's be real, when we're reading these types of books, we're reading it for the emotional damage. Heck yes, take me on a wild ride. In my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

What's the point in reading if it's not a wild ride?

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Exactly. If I'm happy at the end, ugh.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

It's the worst.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

So we're gonna do a general character breakdown of some of the main characters in each book as well. So for this one, obviously Selena. Selena Sardafian. We love her. She is 18 years old. She is the world-class assassin, she has impeccable taste in absolutely everything. And like, let's just be real, the trauma she has already gone through by 18 with the resilience that she has.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Love to see it. Yeah. Honestly, it's honestly impressive. Like when you learn start learning her backstory, um, I guess I should say that as kind of like almost a spoiler warning, but not a spoiler warning. But she goes through it like in a lot by the time like she's 18, like you said. And the fact that she is so what's the word resilient um through it is incredible. But my personal opinion is that she uses the best one-liners in sarcasm to kind of deflect from her trauma for the longest time, but it makes her so entertaining as a character to read about. Like you want to know more because you love her that much. Oh, absolutely. I completely agree with that. But and then we have Sam Cortland. If you haven't already heard about him, you're hearing about him now. Um, he is also a fellow assassin, he is her best friend, kind of. In the beginning of Assassin's Blade, it's questionable on Selena's side of things. You learn more. I think she actually acts like she hates him. She acts in the beginning. But uh so angry that he's there with her at Skulls Bay, and you're like, what's but at the same time, who else would you want? Who else would you want there exactly? Um, and so if you can't tell, they're like best friends turn lovers towards the end, and it's the most beautiful thing to watch on the page. Um I think Jess put on here the relationship build is so good because it's slow and earned. And it's so true. Tell me I'm wrong. You're not wrong at all. Um, but yeah, so I would say Sam Cortland is like probably the picture perfect best friend of lovers written that I've seen on the page in a long time. Best friends to Lovers is my favorite trope. And so this personally broke my heart. I balled when I read his destiny and I knew it was coming. Oh, by the way, spoiler warning for the first three books of the series. So if you have not read Assassin's Blade, Throne of Glass, and Crown of Midnight, there will be spoilers. Not sorry. However, if you've read past uh um Crown of Midnight, we won't be talking about those books yet, so you're safe. However, just be forewarned.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

And we will say every spoiler possible, more than likely, because that's how that's who we are. It just tends to slip. You never know. So just be on guard. Probably I mean, you can listen to it if you're the type that's gonna listen and then like that makes you want to read more. Because I know I'm like that with like TV shows. Um, so like if that's the case for you, absolutely keep listening. If that's not the case for you, grab the book, get your little Kindle, get your book out, highlight, read, yay, cry, tissues, whole sh bang, and then come back. And then come back. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Song as you come back, as long as you come back. And next is Arabin Hamill. We love to hate him. He is actually no, I hate to hate him. He's pretty terrible. We love to hate him. No, I absolutely hate to hate him. Yes, Arabin Hamill is Selena's mentor as well as her captor, and he's the man who raised her and uses love as a weapon and calls it care. That's exactly what Jess put, and I cannot agree more. The reason I hate Arabin so much is that he's kind of displayed as this um fake savior, and he uses that against Selena to say, like, I built you, you owe me all these types of things against her, and that's kind of what builds this false idea of relationship with her as well.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Well, also, I feel like, especially in Assassin's Blade, what makes him even creepier is that at some point you don't know if he's treating her as a daughter or a lover. Yeah, and it's creepy. Okay, sir, sir. You rescued her from the icy river when she was a child. You were a full grown man. Full grown at the time. You have raised her, and now you're like, ooh, maybe a side piece. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Excuse me, right? Back the truck up, sir. It's disgusting and beyond words, honestly. I have I have a lot of issues with it. She's like, I have a lot of words, actually. Let me get right to it. Not okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, and he's one of those characters. I can't remember if I wrote it here or in our next page over for the next two books, but he's one of those characters that he's not the big bad, but you literally loathe him almost more than the big bad in the series. Oh, yeah. And so wherever his character arc goes in the series, I won't give you spoilers for that, but it's almost more satisfying because you've watched how terrible of a human being he is.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Quiet loaves.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah, it's like it's this quiet darkness in the background, right? And Selena has her own questions about what happened between her and Sam and his death and all these things. And so the way that it's like drug out almost into a specific book is almost what makes it so satisfying. Yeah. Because he's that terrible of a character.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Oh, absolutely. Anyway, but so next we have added in an emotional damage scale. Okay, I'm so excited about this, but I'll let you explain. Um, so basically, it's gonna be a rating of one to ten, and it's how emotionally damaged you are after you're reading while you're reading this book and after you read this book. Like, did you maybe have a couple sniffles? Did you need a whole tissue box? Right. Or a couple tissue boxes.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Did you spend days thinking about this and you just can't get over it? Or was it like, oh, it's alright, I'm gonna move on now. Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Yeah, like is this something that will stick in your mind forever? Because it's sticking in my mind forever. So my rating for this, and Caitlin might have the same rating, she might not. She'll speak. Um, but mine was a nine out of ten because I was not prepared for the heartbreak. I should have been. I knew it was coming to an extent. Yeah. Um, like I knew how the book ended and everything, and I knew that Sam would break my heart. Yeah. But he broke it more than I thought, and it was just a little rude. But it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

It's just a little bit emotionally damaging. For real though. Like a nine out of ten. I totally agree with the nine out of ten. The reason is because, like you said, like you know what's happening happen, you know it's coming, but the detail that she goes into was almost unnecessary.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Give me all the nitty gritty details.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

All the nitty details. And I'll get to some of my favorite quotes later to talk about it a little bit more because um one of the new structure things we're gonna be doing is talking about our favorite quotes, which I'm super excited about as well. But just this idea that you get a little bit of a glimpse of Selena pre-Flood of Glass, and you don't you wouldn't think that'd be so important if not for all of this trauma she's gone through. And this is like one of the breaking points of like the end of the book is like one of the breaking points of her. There's multiple throughout the series, but this really like kicks it off. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

I feel like it really reframes everything you thought about or like you thought you knew going into Throne of Glass. It's actually cruel, yeah, how well it works.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Saturday masks, you're a genius. Why do you do this to us?

SPEAKER_04 11:11

And the fact that you don't write anything down and it's all in your head.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

I know. If you haven't seen her Call Her Daddy interview, watch it because the way that she never thought it casually is like, I don't know, it's just in my head. And I was like, What? Literally, my brain was like, I can't even keep straight like children's meals, let alone like an entire Mazerverse that interconnects. What? Insane.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

I my jaw was on the floor.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

I never thought I'd hear you say, I need you to watch Call Her Daddy, but I know.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

I'm not and I don't mean the podcast, I just mean the statement.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Um, but I'm here for it. Jess is like, I never thought I'd see the day. We love it. Here we are. We love it, we love it. Um, do you have anything else you want to talk about with that? Or shall we introduce this?

SPEAKER_02 11:57

I will just have one more note for the emotional damage scale. I do think it's funny because it's a prequel, and it's funny because again, you wouldn't expect a prequel to be that emotionally emotionally damaging. But I think that's one of the reasons why Sarah J. Mass puts it third in the reading order for her recommended reading order. I agree. Because again, you get to know Selena as a person um who she is in Throne of Glass and then and Crown of Midnight, and then you have to go back because she has a big transformation in that second book as well. Again, uh, if you've read, if you've read Crown of Midnight, I'm gonna talk about it. You know, Nahemia dies, and that's her first real friend. And when you read Assassin's Blade, you realize why she doesn't have a lot of friends in the first place, is because the one person she thought was her friend, which was um the the girl from the desert, what's her name? Ansel. Yes, Ansel. And she completely breaks her trust, right? And so she's like learning that like friendships are okay, they are good, and then this person she loves dies. Right after someone else that she loves, Sam, dies. And so the way that that all interconnects to who she is as a character, it's insane. It's insane, and then that sets off this catalyst for the rest of the series of this lack of trust, this keeping things close to the chest, even though she lets herself feel for other people, but she doesn't let them in. She doesn't let them in her plan, she doesn't let them like truly in her life. And I really do think if you don't read Assassin's Blade before that point, it doesn't make a lot of sense because again, we didn't, and I would get really frustrated with her as a character. I'm like, girl, just let them in, they can help you. But it makes more sense understanding from this perspective of like, oh, the one time she let somebody in on her plans, the one time because she didn't even tell Sam that first story in Assassin's Blade about Skull's Blade, about what she was gonna do. He just went along with it when he caught on. Um, but then he dies because he doesn't let her in to those plans and she uses her.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

And so now she's like, anyone that I let in is gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

And then it happens again with Nahemian and Caleb. Every time she keeps it. Right, and so it really makes more sense for her character. And so I would just say that emotion damage goes, I tend out I 10 out of 10 agree with a nine because it's not a 10 out of 10 like you're gonna see later on in Kingdom of Ash. We're not gonna run there yet, and I'm not ready for it. But I will say that it definitely is a nine out of ten because you get an understanding as to like, okay, this is why she chooses to be self-sufficient and she's good at it, so there's no reason why she can't be. Absolutely. It's just sad to see that that's why. And that's another understandable. I would probably be the same way. Like I you felt like you caused somebody else's death. Oh, absolutely. Someone you loved, somebody you thought saw a future with. Like, absolutely. I just want to add that I understand from it, just it's very, very understandable for her character development where she goes.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

So no, I would agree with that. I feel like I already like I just sensed it in the background because of my background. Yeah, like in hearing your talk, and I was like, You've been hurt before at a deep, deep level. And so then, like understanding that portion and really getting into her mind. Because I feel like we get into her mind all the time, but at the same time, there's still a wall of us hearing her mindset and hearing everything in the books, whereas this one's just a full like look into the world of your mind danger. Yeah. Um I just I really appreciated that. Yeah, I did too. So our next section. Another thing we have added, hope you love it as much as we do, is a date them, send them to therapy, or call 911 immediately. So, first and foremost, let's be real.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Sam Cortland, date him immediately. The second he said he had feelings for her, I was like, girl, go for him. Jump on it! Yes, get on that. Like, hello, sir. Yes, I agree. Date him immediately, no other option. He's the only healthy one. He really is the only healthy one in the series, and that's what's hilarious, is that like he doesn't he doesn't have as much of a history yet because he's so young. They're both so young during their love story. So he has some background. So special, yeah, but they have this really healthy dynamic, and I loved that, and then that's why it was almost more of a okay. The night's already in the night is already in the get. I'm gonna twist it a little bit. The one healthy option, but you can't have them. Sorry. Thanks, Sarah. Feels all over again, just talking about it. I know. Uh, anyway. Next is Arabin Hamel. If you can't guess my answer for this one, then I don't really know what to tell you. But call a 911 and a therapist, is what Jess put, and I can't agree more.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

Can't agree more. The manipulation's just so subtle, you almost miss it. And then as you go on, you're like, that was the whole thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Like that's just who that last page, that last page of Assassin's Blade, it really is like, you are a filthy human being. Because you can tell from the whole story that this is obviously a setup. And you know later, because you already read Throne of Glass and Card of Midnight, as you should, um, you know what happens, and she's already doubting what happened there. So you know that he's involved somehow. But that last page where he's like, I don't like to share what's mine. I wanted to slam the book. Oh my gosh, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:01

And just just listen to the case.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

But I was getting on my kiddos, so I couldn't throw it. Amen. Um so many times.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

So many times the book cover.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Maybe that's why like I got the case where you could slam the top part. It's the closer.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

I've done that before. She gifted me one that she stunningly drew on it. Yes, I'm giving you a shout-out in this. Um, don't mind me. And I could be creative sometimes. She says she underplays her creativity all the time. Kind of. But anyway, we'll show you the Kindles eventually, the covers, I'm sure. And you'll be on my side. Um, but like ever since that, I I'll randomly, like not randomly, but sometimes in a book where I'm just like, I can't do this. I just shut it like that, and it's just satisfying. So satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

I'm gonna be asking you questions later then about if you did that with a certain book. Oh no, not in a bad way, but purely out of curiosity.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Oh, okay. I don't know which one she's talking about. That's all right. Um, so then in this book, so I'm I'm gonna add Selena actually as well. Yeah. And for this one book, um, I would say date her. Yeah. Because she hasn't experienced all the trauma yet. Like she hasn't been so set in her ways, her heart's hardened and everything. Like, if you had gotten to her now, yeah, she would be okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Like Sam did. Which is why her and Sam were at. We're in a good place here. Yeah, because she hadn't gotten to Endovir yet. She hadn't lost Nahemia yet. And there's more that happens later in the series. And so, but yeah, well, after she hits Nahemia, it's like her heart really is hardened and cold, and it takes an entire book later to start the undoing of that. So yeah, we are I like how she put she put in her nose in here. We are supporting her, not analyzing her. Okay, I like to analyze characters. It's fine boats. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

That's why we're here. Oh my gosh. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

All right, and the next uh section is one that I'm super excited about because I'm a big quotes girl. I know Jess is too. And so we wanted to add a section about our favorite quotes from the series as an opportunity to talk about what they really mean to us. At least that's part of what I put on here for.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

And you should drop a comment with your favorite quote and let us know what your favorite quotes as well.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

This is specifically from Assassin's Blade, so I'll let you know first. Um, so one of them was just for a moment, the world was theirs. And it was in reference to like Sam and Selena, and like just that one line brings back all the feels for this book. Like, if I actually just sat with that, I could probably tear up, and I'm not a crier, yeah. But that one It almost made me cry.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Oh the heartbroke damage. My heart broke. There was a point in there too, because he kind of confesses his love for her before that moment, and my heart was already a puddle. And so after that line, I was like, Oh my gosh. I'm pretty sure I actually teared up at that one. Jess is like at her corner, her cozy corner, just tearing up and like cozy reading corner. We love it, we love it. We all have one, don't lie. Absolutely. You want to hit yours and then I'll jump back. Yes. Um, because I only had one for this book, but I put um this was part of so if you haven't read Assassin's Blade, it's broken up into short stories. So this is from the short story of The Assassin in the Desert, I think it's called, the middle section of the book, and it says, Most would never experience this, she would never experience anything like this again. And for that one heartbeat when there was nothing more to it than that, she tasted bliss so complete that she tipped her head back to the sky and laughed. And I loved this. I put my nose here, break my heart, why don't you? And I loved this because it's the one moment we get to see Selena truly happy and free in a moment. If you read the rest of Throne of Glass, there's so many times when Selena talks about wanting freedom, she feels so shackled, whether that's physically in Andovier or you know, being the assassin, um, the king's assassin in kind of midnight, emotionally, mentally, she feels so shackled, like she doesn't have choices. And in Assassin's Blaze, she even feels that way because she's she's working as an assassin against her. She's full of the guild, right? Yeah, she didn't want to become an assassin, but she had no choice because Aramen made her into that. And so I loved this moment because we see for just a split second the woman she wants to be. She gets to do what she does does something she wants to do, even though she didn't necessarily want to steal a stallion. That's what's happening here. She wouldn't, right? Like when she's like, but her friend Ansel, this friend she didn't want to make, is encouraging her just to go along with it and enjoy it. And so she lets herself do that. And so I love this moment because you have something to compare her character to for the rest of the series. And that's kind of what broke my heart when I read it. I was like, Oh, because I again I read this last, and so it really put into perspective after reading Kingdom of Ash, everything that she goes through, and this idea that, like, oh, she was so happy, and to watch everything else just kind of unfold from there was like heartbreaking rereading. This series from here was very hard for me. Poor girl. She had this one little moment. Anyway, so that's why I love that quote. So I love that.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

Um my quote is darker. Here we go. So there's a reason behind it though. So before I even say it, I'm going to give a little bit of background with it. I think this quote does such a good job of explaining Selena too. And also, like at the towards the end of the quote, we're talking about um Ansel. I think Caitlin and I both say all these names differently. That's fine. It is what it is. Choose it with your heart.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah, I was saying we're readers. We don't often listen to audiobooks, but if we do, then we feel free to correct us if you're someone who knows how to say these, yeah, say these names. But sorry, not sorry.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Don't mind us, okay? We're just talkers. We're just talkers. Um, but I just I feel like it does such a good job of giving that I don't know how to even describe it, that knife. Um, but also that like passion behind things. Yeah. Because I mean in life too. Um, and I love when a book can like bring something to life in in your actual life as well. Give you something to relate to. Yes, and give you something to just be like, man, that's actually a life lesson, not just in my book, unrealistic. Right. And I feel like this does a good job about that because it's so easy to let pain take over. But yeah, so, anyways, here's the quote Um If you can learn to endure pain, you can survive anything. Some people learn to embrace it, to love it. Some endure it through drowning in it, drowning it in sorrow or by making themselves forget. Others turn it to anger, but Ancel let her pain become hate and let it consume her until she became something else entirely. A person I don't think she ever wished to be.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

And I just feel like Yeah, that was the moment when she yeah, was turning on her and exactly, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

And I feel like that also gives such a a better background and understanding of Enzel, like and her emotives, because you'll see in different parts, like, even though she did the actions that she did, she also didn't want to, right? At the depth of her soul, she did what she thought she had to, not what she thought she could do. Yeah, and that's really what led to it. And yeah, and I feel like she really let that pain turn into hate, where Selena used her pain as fire and as passion to push through and endure. Yeah, and so it's just ugh.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

I just wonder too, because again, this is still an Assassin's Blade. I do wonder if she thought about Ansel after what happened to Nahemian. Was like, and like as she was processing through that, especially like befriending Dorian after the fact, because she didn't want a relationship with him, but yeah, did want to be around Chail, Kale, however you say his name. I said in my head, Chail the whole series. So anyway. Um, but I wonder if she had Ansel in the back of her mind and thinking that because she made that observation about her because we're in her POV that whole book. So I wonder if part of her is like, I don't want to become that person like she did. I want to become something different, right? That's true. So anyway, that's a good point. That's good. And now the our last section uh is gonna be why we like this bookslash series. And I liked this section because I think sometimes when we get into the nitty-gritty of character analyzations and just talking about the books in general, we kind of lose sight overall of like big picture, why we like it in the first place. And some people really hate Assassin's Blade, and some people really love Assassin's Blade. So I think this is a really important section for this book specifically. But anyway, with that, continue.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Um, I feel like in this one, like Selena really gets her humanity back before the series asks her to give it all up. Yeah, if you read it properly. Yeah, like and that alone to me is worth reading the book because it like you've said before, like it just gives so much background and reasoning to the way she is, how she is. And I don't know, like I'm the type of person that loves to analyze people, yes, and know the reason behind how they why they act and how they got to where they are and what made them become that, and this really gives you that with Selena. And then and it kind of goes back, we've talked about this too, but like if you skipped this and went straight to Tal, go back and read it because it's definitely worth it. I would agree with that three book, but if you don't do it at the third after the third book, then at least read it at the end. Right. Um, if you ha don't have a choice now. Do not read the first like don't read the first book and then be like, okay, let me read this before I go. No, no, no, no. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

So you need some context because something so I suggested my friend read this series recently, and she is currently she just finished Assassin's Blade and is about to and is currently reading Era of Fire. Um, because Air of Fire is technically the third book, but again, if you read Assassin's Blade third, then it's the fourth, but whatever. Um, and she agreed that she felt like she actually enjoyed Assassin's Blade a lot because she felt more connected to Selena already as a character, and she sees where she goes. And so when she read halfway through again that that part about Ansel that we just talked about, she was heartbroken for her because she's like, I already know that it's already so hard for you to have love Nahamia, now I know why.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Yeah, so she that's her first experience of ever reading Tog too. So I was excited that if she felt more connected to her as a character that way.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

I could go back and read the series. I know that's why I was like about it.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

But at the same time, for me, I'm one of those people too, like I probably even if someone would have suggested me read it third, I probably wouldn't have because that was so hard off of the cliffhanger of Crown of Midnight, not to just go straight into Air of Fire, like it's so hard. Yeah, so I get it. Yes, just saying.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

But yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Um, but go ahead, continue. Um, Arabin. I will tell my opinion when you're done with yours.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Mine's pretty drag. Yeah. Uh I think he is scarier than any monster in books because he's real. Yeah. Because he is, I mean, he has a book character. But he's real. Okay. He's real in my heart and not in a good way. But he like we all know who he is, but at the same time, he shocks you with how bad he is. Yes. Every time, like you think he can't get worse, and then like that ending. Oh my goodness. Yeah, absolutely not. So I just I had to add a little bit of him in the end. Because despite him being kind of the background character, he's a loud, silent background character.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

He is because he made such a huge impact on Selena. And again, I'm gonna go back to my point earlier, but elaborate on a little bit more. Like, it's amazing to me how much you can hate a villain who's not the biggest enemy enemy in the series. Oh, absolutely. Because if you get to the end of the series, you realize, oh, he's not the big bad. He's not, but he's terrible and you hate him. He's my big bad. He's my big bad. But it's almost like he's worse because of the fact he's not blatantly black and white bad boy character, right? He is this manipulative, you don't know where his allegiances lie. But when you read the last page of Assassin's Blade, you're like, what the heck? Because again, that line of like, I just don't like to share, makes it this idea of like, oh no, Selena is property to him, and he doesn't actually care for her, but he wants to keep her because she makes some money, she's cute, and then he raised her, so he thinks that he belongs, she belongs to him. And it just makes you hate him so much more. Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

And so not even a like stay in one lane own. Right. I can own you however I want. You will do whatever I want.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Exactly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And so there's so much, like, I don't know. I hate I hate a big bad more than or like like most people do, but when it comes to villains that are that manipulative, it almost makes it worse. Oh, absolutely. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

So yeah. I hate him. He is terrible, and he gets what's coming to him, hopefully, eventually in the series. I hope it's a farewell. I hope it's a farewell. Oh, hello. Doctor Keith. I generally don't remember. They might be in my rain jacket coat. I don't I never took them out, so I really might have given them to me, but I don't remember taking them anywhere. He's fine.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

He doesn't want to go. I know he's fine. He's not hurting on me. It's just sad to hear.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Alright. Um and then I think I had one more note. So I had one more note on that, and then we can go to Donna Class. You read that note. I'm rereading it so I don't have to read it verbatim. Okay. Okay. Okay. So my last point is just that I love this book so much because I think I said this a few times earlier, just that it gives so much good context to who Selena is as a character going into Throne of Glass. And I think again, I mentioned this earlier that it was frustrating to me on a first read because I hadn't read Assassin's Blade of like, why won't you just trust people? Which is hilarious coming from me as someone who like won't trust someone unless I've known you for like years on end, which is fine. Um, anyway, but but from like a fantasy character perspective, you need help saving the world, like you just do. And so from her from her character perspective, it was really hard for me until you got later on down the road, and you're like, Oh, something clearly has very deeply wounded you because she says to other characters later on down the road, like this is very hard for me. This is hard, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, Thank you, we finally got here, but it took us a long time, and so after reading Assassin's Blade, I'm like, okay, now I understand why I should have read this earlier in the series. Again, no matter where you read it, it's fine, but it gives you a better understanding of who she is as a character and um a little bit more grace, I guess you could say.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

Yeah, like okay, that's a good way of putting it. You give her more grace throughout it because if if you're not someone to read it and think through the like heartbreak, mm-hmm, grief, like all of that in the background, which I mean, most people don't think like that as they're reading something or seeing someone act out or whatever, right? But if you have that knowledge beforehand, this all this whole story is different. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

You just see her differently in a different light. All right, now we're gonna move on to Throne of Glass, which is technically the title series and the first book of the whole series. And again, Assassin's Blade, we started with that because chronologically it comes first. So plot summary. Would you like to kick it off, Jess?

SPEAKER_04 33:04

Always, always. Um, also like if you hear us say tog, that's also the reference. I know at one point before I understood the little abbreviations as book readers do. Yeah, I was like, what the frick for that is tog? And so then I looked at it. What is Tog? Is it a frog? But with the teeks I don't understand. Yeah, I was like, what do you mean tog? Why are we doing that? Right? But now I I always I understand it is what it is. Um, so in Throne of Glass, Selena is taken, which you kind of see in the last book if you read Assassin's Blade First, but um, she's taken to the death camp. So in this book, though, she is pulled out of the death camp and Dobier. That's what you want to call it. Endovier, and Dobr is what it is. The salt mines. Yes, by Prince Dorian to compete in a competition for the king. If you win the tournament, you become the king's champion. We think that sounds good. It sounds like a good deal. Yep. So what could he want with her? Exactly. But like one way of I'm gonna read this verbatim because I just enjoyed how it came across. Like this book is literally two love interests, a magical murder mystery, a ghost queen, and an evil king who took magic away entirely. Like when you read it like that, like when you say it like that, it just does something to you.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

It does, it's more intriguing that way, but that's exactly what it is. That's so good.

unknown 34:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

If any of that sounds interesting, this is the book for you. Advertisement. Here you go.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

Free advertisement, Sarah JMass. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

But yeah, so throughout that book, um, you're going through the competitions. There's 23 people that are competitors and they're dying in extremely absurd ways. Um, whether that be in the competition or outside of the competition.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

That's the question.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Yes, or both. Um, but it's really cool to just see how everything builds off of each other in this one. And there are such plot twists. I feel like each book is an entire series and of itself with how much you get. And oh, just if you have a moment, all I can say is if you have a moment in this book or any of her books of like, oh, this is a lot. I'm a little bit done with it. No, you're not done. No, you're not. You're not that you push through that. You push that and you read it. Okay, we we don't stop.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

But I what I will say too is that um I have had some people who read TOG after they read Avatar. Oh, and let me just say, it is not the same. And the reason is because this series, she act Sarah J Mass actually wrote before she wrote Avatar. And so she took her time slowly building the world. And so I would say it is a slow start magically, but she builds so much foundation that you don't even realize you're picking up on more than you are until you get into the rest of the series. Like, oh yeah, I know what that is. Oh, that's how that relates to that. Yeah, like you don't realize, and I didn't realize time doing my reread. I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so much here in book one. Exactly. And so just know that if it feels slow, that's intentional because it gets super complicated later on.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

You need that foundation, you need that slow foundation. You try to just like jump to the next book or read it quickly but not take it in, like you will be confused later. You will be confused. It is worth it.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

The way that the world expands, and and then as as you also get more characters later on, that it just becomes too confusing if you skip anything. So, our recommendation would be follow Jay Mass's recommendation in terms of reading order, but also just take your time and enjoy the ride because there's a reason why she wrote it the way that she did. Just trust us. Absolutely, I completely agree. Uh, and then general main character breakdown. Of course, we have Selena Sardolfian. We just talked about her from Assassin's Blade. She just came from Endovier. She did a literal year in slavery in Andovier with the SWAT mines. That's where um they take their prisoners and they serve for however long their sentences as slaves to um get all the salt from the swamp mines. Um so that's where she was, and she shows up um just put to stun in a gorgeous dress and outsmarts everyone in the room. Which I mean, that's just Selena to a T. If you don't know her as a character, there is a good example. Um but Jess made some really good notes here. So I'll actually have her read a little bit more about Selena as a character.

SPEAKER_04 37:36

Sure thing, Caitlin. Um, so one of the things is that her vanity is actually her armor. Like it's, I mean, it's the classic thing that you see in the movies, that you see on a TV show, in books, whatever. She uses her vanity, her pretty dresses, her smile, her, yeah, I know that dance um to actually like loosen your guard, and then you're like, oh, oh, she can take me out with a pencil. That's good. Yeah, it's wonderful. I want to be her. Right. Um, but I just appreciate I guess I appreciate that. As weird as that sounds, no, I do too. There are parts of herself with that that it's not just a mask, like she actually enjoys these things. These are actually the things that she's like, no, like this is a part of me. Like, I know what I want, I know what I like, and I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna get it. Yeah, and so it's not just vanity, it's not just a cover, it's not just a mask, it's truly who she is, and not in a negative way. Yeah, we all have some bougie things, okay? Like, it depends on what you prioritize.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Just as like I appreciate pretty things too, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Both of the human.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

I will say that items Selena slash Alain, because we've all read Kind of Midnight, right? Cool. Um, as a character, what I appreciate about her, the way Sarah J. Mass wrote her, is that she is a BA and yet she likes to wear dresses. Like, I love that she didn't strip her of her femininity at all. Like, she I loved reading Throne of Glass and like, oh, she's excited to wear a pretty dress, she's excited to dance with a cute prince. Like, I love that she let her keep her like femininity in that because I think in some sometimes in her mandacy, not always, we can all sometimes find those um FMCs who are like, oh, I have to wear a dress, oh, I have to do this. I'm like, excuse me, I like wearing dresses, and there's nothing wrong with that. Like, can I have a character who like enjoys those things? And so that was really refreshing to me reading her of like she can like these things and still be an assassin. Like, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

Like, I don't have to wear a pretty dress every single day, but if I get the chance to go to a ball, yeah, a gala and dress up, you better believe it. And that just shows in her, and I love that.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

It's almost too you when I see your assassin's blade, you realize, oh, this is also kind of like the one thing she can control. Like, I like pretty things, so I can buy I'm gonna use my blood money and buy them, and I'm gonna wear them and I'm gonna enjoy them. And so, yeah, absolutely. And then, of course, Prince Dorian. Oh, I'm not gonna lie, Dorian's one of my favorite characters in the whole series. You can hate on me if you want to, that's fine. But I loved him, and the one of the reasons why is because yeah, he's supposed to be this charming, and he's very young and naive in this first book. Okay, I get it, but his character arc is one of my favorites in the whole series. I completely agree with that statement. But he's so charming and he reads books and he's sweet, and I just love his flirty interactions with Selena. She's truly so fun.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

The good, charming prince that is in love or wants the dangerous girl. Yeah, it's a classic. Classic for a reason. Yeah, she took the words literally out of my mouth if you had seen that.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

I'm a classicist, I love it. It's my favorite, so yeah, these are my favorites for sure. But he's sweet, like you said, and um, but he also plays a certain role in Selena's story, like you think that's where her storyline's gonna go. And in a way, you kind of expect it to later on the series, but not where it ends up going. But it's fun. So I like him as a character for that reason. He may be classic, but classics are the classics for a reason. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

And one thing I will say about him and this book too is like it's funny the attraction to them, and you always hear like opposites attract. No, like they are opposites. Yeah, there's a whole freaking canyon in between them, especially like not even just the prince to a poor girl, but like he you don't really know that he's gone through anything. He doesn't seem like he's gone through anything. Yeah, and especially compared to her, who has seen things, done things, been lost her whole family. Yeah, tried to escape, been a slave, lost her slave.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Like, are you and she's technically a year younger than him, too.

SPEAKER_04 41:37

Exactly. Yeah, just proves that age is but a number, maturity is what counts.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

It is, uh, and I think I'll touch on that note too a little bit later with one of my um quotes between a conversation between them. So anyway, we love it.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

And then we also get to Prince Dorian's bestie, um, who also happens to be the captain of the guard or the guard captain. How do you think? Guard captain, captain of the guard, all the things.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah, all the same. Kale Westfall Kale, Chao, you know. I literally called him Cale in the whole series in my head. I think I it's Kale, I get it, like the vegetable, but I never connected the vegetable. That's the only thing I heard when I heard someone say his name is Kale. I was like, like the vegetable.

SPEAKER_04 42:22

Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. Literally never thought about that at all. Anyway, but but he is the stoic captain who is literally fighting for his life of his feelings. Yes, he is his entire book, and man is he losing. As you see in next book. 100%. Like his whole thing is loyalty, it's duty, it's I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna do my best. I can't have distributions. Cool, great. Nope. Nope. Uh like L O L. Isn't it the things we hold on to the most that we end up losing? Because that was him. That was him to a team.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Yep. Yeah, and I think with Kale, um, I didn't like him at first because again, I really like the classic, like Prince falls in love with, yeah, you know. But you can tell there's like some there's real chemistry between Kale and Selena. They also make it go get each other. They get each other, right?

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Like he's seen things, he's done things, he's been through things, he's had to, you know, hurt people. Yeah, he can just have that different level of understanding.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

And I even put when I was reading through um rereading through book one, there was a note I put when they're having a conversation or joking about something. I was like, Oh, there's like something here, they can relate to each other really well. And I was like, dang it. And that's the point I knew I was like, dang it, that they're gonna end up putting together at some point.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

Yeah. Like he really he gets in the trenches with her, we're all whereas like Dorian's waiting at home for him to get back.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Like that's the only way I can think and put it.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Yeah, he's like the stay at home house husband, and Kale's like, No, I'm gonna fight with you.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

Yeah, you need backup on my way. We got you, right? Dorian might try at this point.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Yeah, he's not there yet.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

No, not yet. He's gotta go through some things. The next character is your favorite, so like you you have to read her.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Yes, I love Nahemia. She, I don't know how to say her last name, so don't yell at me. But Ichger, yeah, I don't know. But Nahemia, she's from LA, she's a foreign princess, um, and she plays her public role perfectly, which is what Jess wrote and had nails it on the head. But her friendship between Selena is and her is probably my favorite part of the whole book. And the reason is because if you again, if you read Assassin's Wade first or if you read it last, you understand that Selena doesn't trust well at all, but she also doesn't get close to people very easily. And so that to see this like friendship bud up naturally and organically between them was surprising, as surprising to Selena as it was to Nahemia. Um, because Nahemia is keeping some things from her, as you learn in book two. Um, but I think it's kind of sad because you already know it's coming, which is what you said, but you're choosing not to think about it right now because Nahemia has already decided upon meaning Selena that she's gonna make her basically be her life be a catalyst so Selena can Selena can become the person she needs to be, which is Ailen. And the way that it broke my heart reading it on a second time around, because you pick up on so much more in the things that she says that were like a little bit mysterious on your first read, but in your second reading, you're like, oh my gosh, she's basically telling her without telling her what the frick.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Yeah, like she's she showed up giving her life, and you you had no idea. You had no idea. She's just supporting her, she's just fine, yeah, right. Yeah, and then the reality is like in the back of her head, she knew she she knew if she had to, her life's gone for her to be able to become the person she was going to be.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah, and that's just again, we're gonna get up to the emotional damage scale here in a second, but that's just emotional damage and a whole nother level of like you're a genuine friend, but you're also kind of using her to become who she needs to be. And it's like a good thing, but it's also like a gut wrench. And I'll talk about that more next book when we go over that in Crown of Midnight here in a minute, but uh, it's like a whole nother level of betrayal.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

It is. I feel like re the reread of this is a whole nother level of emotional damage. It is like you have it the first time, and you think once you finish it, you're like, man, I wish I could go back and read it not knowing anything. Right. But then you go back and read it knowing, and you're like, it's almost like worse, but better at the time.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

I had the tissues prepared, but I need another box. You know, like it's no longer 3M, it's 4 a.m. because I can't stop crying.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

Work is hard the next day. Yes, it is. So for the emotional damage scale this time, it might shock you my rating. Um, and I don't know if Caitlin's is different or not. We'll see. We'll talk about it. But mine is actually only a six out of ten. And there's reason behind it. It's because it's emotionally tense, but the real damage is delayed. Yeah. Like, yes, you're feeling things. It's like somebody you can feel it building. Like you can feel someone watching you and waiting and lurking, but the dread, like the dread is here, but the damage is not yet. Yeah. So that's why it's actually a little bit looser or lower than what you might think. Because yes, there's so much emotional damage in this series, but this book in particular is a build-up to the damage in my book.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

I agree. I would actually put mine at a five out of ten instead of a six out of ten. I know. I expected you to be higher. So the thing about Throne of Glass is it felt the f Throne of Glass is in the title book. Um, it feels very much like a classic fairy tale with a twist. Does that make sense? And so it wasn't there were definitely some darker, eerier parts of that. Like it's definitely like a like an ad young adult kind of fiction, which is this the grade that it is. Um, but I don't I didn't feel like for example, you don't have the context yet usually of Assassin's Blade unless you read it first. And even then you probably weren't as connected to Selena as you are at the end of the beginning of or the end of Throne of Glass. And so I didn't give it too high an emotional damage rating because you do feel for her in that last scene in her fight with Kane. You do feel this tug and pull of like, ah, like there's something more here, and there's a lot of deep traumatic stuff coming up for her. And there's even some quotes where she's like she can hear hoofbeats in the background. That's clearly like a memory coming up that she's suppressing. But it's not, you wouldn't understand it yet, right? So, like, I would say there's some emotional damage, which is why I gave it a five, but it's not enough because you don't know understand it yet as the reader. Yeah, so it's like a half and half for me. Um, but but like, is it there? Yes, but you don't really get a lot of um context for it yet. And I put a note on here that said when you talked about it being like um the tournament deaths are creepy, but they're the emotional gut punch is is actually just like watching her exist in a cage, and I said yes. Seeing how she has like freedom, but the word is held so loosely, so like she just came out of being a slave, so she's this is supposed to feel like freedom, but she still feels more like a cage to another slavery, to another yeah, person, another form. Um so I would say there's some some emotional damage there that you clearly can see the background of from a reader's perspective, but it's a it's like a bird's eyes view. Absolutely, so it's a five for me.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

And then on top of that, like I feel like a lot of times, and not all the time, but a lot of times part of your gut wrench when it's is when it comes to like a romantic relationship or something like that. Uh-huh. Like the gut wrench in this is her friendship with Naomi. Yeah, exactly. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yeah, I agree. So date them or call 911 or therapist.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Um, good old Dorian. Dorian. Green light, Dayton. Green light. Date him, date him, day him.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

He's definitely like the first boyfriend of like kind of testing out dating for the first time. Green light. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Like, he needs a few years to be an adult. Yeah. Well, who doesn't at 19?

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Right. So Dayton. I know.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

There are so many people I've heard talk about this series who are like, yeah, but he has so many red flags. I'm like, he's 19. Like, but 19-year-old flack doesn't.

unknown 50:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Poor girl. It's uh it's more understandable to give the flack to KO because he's supposed to be in his 20s. Like, there's a more understanding for that. He should know better. But when it comes to Dorian, I'm like, he's young and he's dumb. You know, just give him some flack. It's fine. Move on. Anyway. Date him in my book. He's a cute prince. Why not?

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Any prince. Yeah. Come on now. Any friends.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

I'll take it.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

Kale. Therapy first. Date later. Yeah. Uh, he definitely has some emotional unavailability wrapped in. I feel like the way I put it is like wrapped in duty is a pattern, and he needs to talk about like that's something he needs to work out. Yeah. Because he's putting everything and anything, all his feelings, absolutely everything. No, I have a duty. No, I have a duty. Okay, cool, great, but you're also a human. Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

It's almost like nothing can exist outside of that identity.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

Exactly. And I think it's because he he's not willing to let himself feel. Yeah. Like he's not willing to actually because feeling and healing means going through more pain, and he wants to guard himself from any of it because to him it's just a distraction. Yeah. Anything but doing his actual job is a distraction, which is so toxic. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

And I don't remember if it's this book or the next one, but uh you he gives a little bit of his background. Like he gave up being a lord, and he also left his mom and his younger brother in order to become the captain in the guard. So like he feels like he gave up so much, and so like he doesn't want to risk it. So I understand that piece of it, but you're right. Like, if you're gonna be a well-rounded human, you have to have um balance in different parts of your life, right? And he comes to terms with that the next book, but it's it's still only to a point. He's not willing to sacrifice the things he needs to just yet. So I agree with that. I would put not date, but therapy for sure. At least in this book, yeah, at least in this book. That's why mine is maybe day later. Yeah, maybe day later. And not in the I'll change him way, right? He just needs to grow as a character first. Exactly. I agree. And Naamia, I love that you put she is the bestie, not a loving dress. Just to be clear, just so we're clear, but yeah, she deserves to be in everything.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

She's only in one book, so she deserves everything we talk about.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

And it's amazing how much she's in the background of the rest of the series because she's so deeply connected to Selena's transformation.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

And she's the only one that treats Selena as a full human. Yeah. She treats her as a whole, she treats her as her friend, she wants to teach her, she wants to learn from her. Right. Like she's not just the assassin, she's not just the uh from a slave group, she's not just this, that. She's actually a human.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

She has her own mind, she has her own opinions, she has her own feelings. Um, but she also knows who she is, so she has her own duty and she's trying to push her to be that person. And she is the friend that we all need.

SPEAKER_04 53:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

And I love that you added the king to this list.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

I just thought it'd be fun.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

I laughed so hard when I read through this outline. I was like, absolutely 911 FBI, and you put an exorcist.

unknown 53:32

He banned magic.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

You don't understand that yet as the reader, why you need an exorcist, but you will.

SPEAKER_04 53:42

That he banned magic and runs dust camps. We're not doing a verdict here. There's no, you can't void this one. You can't. FBI Exorcist 911. You need all of them. And don't just do it.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Just do it. Okay. Trust us. Moving on because we don't want to give away too much. Especially if you haven't read past Crown of Midnight yet. Yes, absolutely. All right, and our favorite part, favorite quotes, and I'll let you go first.

SPEAKER_04 54:11

My heart. Okay. You could rattle the stars, she whispered. You could do anything if you only dared. And deep down you know it too. That's what scares you most.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

This is probably one of the most quoted quotes, but I love it and for good reasons.

SPEAKER_04 54:27

It's most quoted for a reason. Yeah. Like it just not only does it connect you to the book and everything, but I feel like just that verbiage really does something and speaks to your soul at the depth of us. Because I mean, maybe it's just me, but uh, like when I hear something like that, it's like, how many things do we not do? Because we're not willing to dare. Yeah. Because we're not willing to be that to try and try and do. Absolutely. And that just sums it up perfectly. Like, you could do anything if you actually applied.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

If you actually dared to do that, and that's what scares me most. And I felt so sene when I read that too, which is why I didn't write it down because you already had it there. But um, in one of my notes, I put on my Kindle because you know you can highlight and then put notes. I felt really seen because growing up, I always felt like I could literally do anything, but I didn't want to try. I was too scared to, or I didn't have the ability or the opportunity, right? And so I was always good enough to make the team, and I could I knew I could be better if I wanted to be. But it's like, do I want to try? Do I want to risk it? Do I want to push that modem or that line?

SPEAKER_04 55:35

And to try without it being perfect circumstances, right? Because I think that's also what always stops us, is we're not willing to fail. Yeah. And I mean, the perfect example of that is this podcast. Right. Oh my gosh. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

We tried, we failed.

SPEAKER_04 55:51

It was not a good setup.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

It's the relaunch.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Yeah, and it's not a bad thing, right? But it's actually a good thing because you actually tried something and you failed. Right. If somebody says they failed at something, I honestly think that's the best thing that you could have happen. Yeah. Because you learn from it. Yeah. Because you now you're like, okay, like you want the best circumstances, you have to learn what the worst circumstances are to get there.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

And that's the only way to build and grow. And I think specifically, one of the reasons why I related to this quote is I didn't really think about it too much until later on in the series. And the reason is because one of the reasons why I think Selena is so moved by this quote, because this is this is from Nahemia, our favorite girl. Um, or maybe it's Elena, I don't know. But I thought it was Selena uh or Nahamia. But I think it is she one of the reasons why Selena is so slow to commit herself to what this cause that comes later on down the road, this rebellion, is because she knows there's responsibility that she has to pick up. She has to pick up something that she put down, she has to become that princess that she was born to be. And she later on calls it shackles, another form of shackles is being a princess because you're you're born into this situation. You're given a situation you didn't ask for, you're given responsibility you don't want, and yet you have to live in it, right? Absolutely, and it's expected of you, and it's almost like she knows that. Yeah, she knows what she's capable of, she had her powers as a young girl, and yet she so she knows what she could do, but she doesn't want to. She doesn't want to be shackled to it. And I think that's why I felt really connected to it, is because I have always felt like I've been born into these circumstances, but I didn't want them, right? I had I had to walk in them, but I didn't want to. But it's almost like if we know what we're capable of, why are we afraid to walk in it?

SPEAKER_04 57:35

And I feel like once you when you're born into that type of situation or are situations where you feel like you're shackled and born into something that you now have to deal with and get through, that when you have the opportunity of freedom, no matter if it's a different type of freedom. So her being an assassin, her her being a king's champion, yes, it's different, but be given the circumstances, it can still feel shackled because you haven't fully embraced the if you haven't fully embraced the past, you can't ever unshackle from the future right now. Like you have to actually fully process that and heal and move forward. And she hasn't done that yet. She hasn't done that yet.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

She's not willing to be called Ailen for even a couple books, even when she's admitted to who she is to Kale. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:18

Because that's a whole identity. And she knows what it means.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

I could take on that identity. And she has suppressed it for so long. It's been a decade, right? Since and she lost a family she deeply loved. And you don't know that till later. So, like, I can understand why that would be so hard to pick up. I related to that very deeply for that reason. And so it's almost like and that's why I related to the second part of that quote, too. Like, that's what scares you most. Like, you know, you could do this, but you don't want to. And it's like, oh, call me out. It's fine.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

Right there with you, right?

SPEAKER_02 58:57

Whenever I read that part, it's just like okay. Oh, right, fine.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

Yeah, I guess I should do this too.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

And that's probably why it relates to so many people and why it's so well quoted. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 59:07

Anyway, you have the next one. All right. Um, the other one I think all of us as book lovers can relate to. Libraries were full of ideas, perhaps the most dangerous and powerful of all weapons. And amen. It's just so true. I mean, they say knowledge is power, and where are you getting knowledge from? Books. Books, not the internet. Um please, please don't trust the internet anymore. Please I read that for the first time. I was like, yes, yes, please. I just love it. Hard it, put it on the books, you know, embroider that, put that on a pillow. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Put that on a pillow. It's gonna be the most quoted line from Jess. Put that on a pillow. I'm gonna bring that up.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

Listen, I don't know where half the stuff I say comes from, but here we are. I'm here for it. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 59:59

All right. Your turn to give it a go.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Okay, mine are a little more sassy, but I loved them. So which is kind of ironic. I know. We're like opposite from what we usually are, but I think you got the two good ones. So I'm like, okay, I'll just pick the two that I really liked because they're sassy. So that my first one is um, this is Selena talking to the weapons master, and she says, give me real men to fight, and then maybe I'll bother trying. And get them. Listen, I think I put in my notes, yeah, I said call shenai twig because that makes me want to go kicked out a door.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

I love you. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Let's go, girls. Absolutely. But but seriously, I loved this for her because as her character, she was asked to basically hold back from all these other assassins who happen to be boys and all that. But I love the fact that she's like, listen, if you want me to actually try, I will give you a real man to fight.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:50

Like, I need a worthy opponent, right? Like, what do you want from me? Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

I always love that because it really shows who she is as a character. She's like, no, I am BA and I know it, but you're not ha you're not giving me anything to actually try on. So and it's fun, funny because you hear that and you just think she's being cocky, and then you read Assassin's Blade, and then then Crown of Midnight as well, and you're like, oh no, she she does know what she's doing. Never mind.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

She actually has skill. She like this isn't a this isn't a boast. This is actually facts.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

This is fact, yeah. All right, and then my next one is um that conversation between Doran and Sel Dorian and Selena, and love their combos. There, I know me too. They have a few of them in this book that are really fun, and this is one of them. She's kind of making fun of Dorian because he's being very idealistic about wanting to marry for love. Um, and she makes fun of him by saying, like, who are you to think in your situation? I didn't I didn't write this, this isn't part of the quote. I'm just paraphrasing here for a second so you understand the context. But she's basically saying, like, who are you as a prince to think that you can marry for love? Like a marriage is a contract, essentially. And then he goes, You're this is where the quote starts. You're being remarkably judgmental. And she says, What's the point in having a mind if you can't use it to make judgments? And I'm not gonna lie, I felt so seen. That is something you would say. I would say it to a T. But I I put in my notes, I was like, the way I felt so seen. Yes, queen, tell it like it is. We love it. So here's the thing I have always been the type of person who I will be very dragged, and it sounds judgmental, but I don't mean it to be. I'm just gonna be honest. We're both like that. Yeah, we're both like that. Like, if you think you're being idealistic, I'll tell you, and then you need to be more realistic, right? And it's not that I don't care about you, but it's that I don't want you to like have your expectations here and then be disappointed, right? But I loved it because I'm like, yes, I feel this in my soul. You have a brain, use it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:39

Absolutely, and so many people don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

I know, but I felt really seen in that moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

So oh, I love that so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

All right, and on to our next section why we like this book slash series.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

Absolutely. It just sets up so much, it sets up so much more than and then it pays off. Like, and you we already talked about it, we already hit on that, but you don't realize how much it's setting you up, you don't realize how much payoff you're actually gonna get from reading this book, and it's so intentional, yeah, and that's why it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Yeah, I agree. And I think Sarah J. Mass even said on an interview that there are parts when she actually got published with this book because she originally wrote a lot of these stories about Selena on fan fiction sites and then eventually officially published for real later and wrote rewrote some of this book intentionally, knowing where the story goes. And so a lot of it is intentional and it is slower. And so, if you again, if you read Akatar and then you go to read Tog, know that it is slow, but for reasons, so just enjoy the story. Absolutely. Um, but again, keep in the back of your mind these little mentions of magic because they become very, very important later.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

It's barely explained in this book, but somehow that almost makes it more interesting, not less, and you hear the payoff later as you go on. You really like pay attention to the magic, even though it's in the background, like it's there, it's there, and it's yeah, it's gonna build. Absolutely. But another thing is that like I love that Selena is so complicated. I feel like so often, we've again we've kind of touched on this too, but so often your main characters or even side characters, any character, any human um is in any human she's laughing at it. I love it anyway, is put in such a box. Like you are either intelligent or you are creative. You are either smart or you can do sports. Like you, you're never both, right? And the world looks at you different if you are both. And so that's what I appreciate about Selena is because she's a heroine who is allowed to be complicated, she's vain, she's brilliant, she's grieving, she's funny, and she's terrifying. Right all at once. It's just this whirlwind, and you think it sounds chaotic, but it's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

And it makes her more relatable as a character because she's more realistic.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

Right. And I think a lot of characters we read in Romia to see, they are very black and white because they are very idealistic, and not in a bad way. I understand there are a lot of stories that they have as like mode of they really want to get across this message, they really want to get across. Respect it, I get it. However, I I would just appreciate characters like Slayna who are more realistic and the fact that, like, we don't we're not that idealistic, even if we want to be. There's more depth to that, there's more complication. And so I I agreed with you with that note. I said, I love that she's um complicated because she's realistic, but she cares about other people, but she doesn't want to, and that's relatable to someone like me, right? I'll feel you, yeah. Um, and because of what she's lost, like we re talked about with Assassin's Blade, and she's scared of that responsibility, like we touched on as well, because that means more chains and so on and so forth. And so the the complexity makes her more dynamic as a character, and so it even makes her character arc later on in the series more satisfying. Oh, yeah. Um, because you see where she came from, and it's such a long journey there.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:56

So, anyway. No, I completely agree with that. And On top of that, like one more thing on that. Um, is put a pen in it. Like, I also appreciate that because I feel like in life, I'm a big apply your books to life girl. Okay, I can't help it. That's how my brain works. Yeah, but what I really appreciate too is that so many times, like in life, even as adults, like people don't know how to hold grief and joy. Right. They don't know how to hold two emotions at once. Right. And it is difficult or allow it to even happen. Like they let one or the other consume them and refuse to allow space. Like if you're grieving, you refuse refuse to allow joy. Yeah. If you have joy, you cannot possibly grieve, or you have there's something wrong with you. And so just her being able to encapsulate all of those things. Just I feel like it's such a good thing for people to see and to read and to hopefully help them understand too that it can all exist at once and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

Yeah. And I think too, especially it's so hard, I think, in a world that tells us like positivity, you must always be positive. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think the intention behind it is pure.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

But I think in a world where like that's such a strong message sent to people in grief, it's taken to an extreme. It is because it's they don't let these people understand that that you can hold space for both. Like you can choose to be positive during the day even though your heart is so deeply hurt. Exactly. Both things can exist at the same time. You can choose to have joy and laugh at something even though your heart is hurting. Like both those things can happen at the same time. It's a wave for a reason. But I think people who haven't experienced that depth, like Selena has in the story, it's hard to understand it. So I think we need more characters like her to have the pure examples of that. Exactly. Because we need to understand that you need to be able to hold both because that makes you more rounded as a person. Exactly. I mean it's makes you more healthy as a person.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

And I think then it also helps you, like I mean, coming from someone that's experienced a lot of grief, I understand this. I understand that both have to exist. Yes. However, a lot of people haven't. Right. And I'm I'm glad for you. Um unfortunately, it's life, so it will come eventually. Right. And in different forms. If you aren't willing to at least understand or learn about it at least, before it happens, that's why it takes over.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:25

And so this book just does a really good job of showing you what happens during it and how we can have all of these things going on at once, and it's okay, rather than just, oh, my family died. I give up on everything. You know, and that's an extreme, and that that's a hard statement. But it's true. It's true. And she was able to overcome it for a reason because she decided to turn like the quote from Assassin's Blade that I chose, like she chose to turn that pain into something instead of allowing it to become hate or anything of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

And I think too, it does it again. This is gonna get more into the weeds and of that specific topic, I think, later in the series, because all of this grief comes to a point later in the series where she has to deal with it. Because she does suppress some of it and she lets it be exemplified in other ways. Yes. It's almost like it's like um con compartmentalizing, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

Um, which can sometimes be helpful and sometimes be hurtful. And I think this is a really good example of that. You're right. I think as a society, it's uncomfortable to see people go through grief when we don't understand it. And so we want to put it in a box to understand it. And while that makes sense, I think we need when we see sp people like Selena, characters like Slayna, because there are people like that in real life. A hundred percent. It helps us have more grace, it helps us have more hold space for them and respect them. Because I think it's not my job to tell someone what they're going through, but it is my job with serve friends like Nahemia to be there and listen and to talk to them and encourage them, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:56

And to help them if they get to a point that it's like, okay, you need to let people in type of deal. And I think some of the people those are people we love. Yeah, just so we're clear. Yes. Exactly. Good point. Um, but it's yeah, like I mean, as you see like in her growth throughout the book, too, you see the other characters do that. You see it a little bit in these two of like the forcing upon her, right? And I think that's also a good thing to show in grief, and because there's a difference between forcing yourself upon somebody in an unhealthy way and forcing yourself upon them just to exist, exist just to exist and be there if they decide they need you. Right. Um, and this book does a good job of showing that. Okay, I'll stop talking about grief.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

Uh uh. And then um you also talked about the magic system and how it's kind of explained, which we touched on, and you also talked about how uh you don't realize till crown of midnight that you're being prepared for something bigger, which also relates to the magic system. And I also agreed with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

Okay, moving on to Crown of Midnight. Wow, wow, wow. All right, so in the Crown of Midnight, this is the plot summary. Um, she is now the King's Champion, and so basically what she's having to do as the King's Champion is He says, I want them dead, she says, Okay. Um by what date? Exactly. And what's crazy, this is a spoiler alert. Spoiler. Is he wants the head of them? Like he wants proof, and I I get the proof thing, but the head, mm-hmm. What the head to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

I know, and she usually takes it one step further, and like the first scene is her bringing in a head and a hand.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:41

Okay, big silly. She's an over-retriever, clearly.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

But so she's not, but what's interesting is and you don't know this till like later on, which makes it even wilder. I know. It's like, how are you bringing the head and everything? So clearly he's not looking very closely because she's not bringing them then.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

I know. Like she's she's killing, she's not even killing other people, she's taking corpses from sick houses and then saying it's somebody else and letting the other people go free, which is wild because she has and I when I was reading this for the first time, I was like, Oh, does that mean she's never actually killed anybody before? No, no, no, that's not the case. She's just choosing not to kill for the king because she doesn't trust his judgment, just so we're clear.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

And a lot of the people, I think, if I remember correctly, that some of these people she's had relationships with like in the past um as a princess. And so, like, she's really just she's a one-woman witness protection program. And we love to see it. She's like, you can go flee, but never talk to anybody ever again. Okay, bye. Exactly. And then, like, with that, um, she's sent to the Phalanx alone in this book. So that's where this kind of the book ends with that, and it really opens up yet another whole new world and whole new side of her. Sing it. I can't sing, but there you go. You're welcome. You can sing, you just did. Thanks. But um the magic system also comes out a lot more and this you go full conspiracy mode, man. Yep. Um, and then we get our favorite twist. Oh my gosh. Dorian gets his magic too. Yes, it does. It's not just um it's not just her anymore. Like he has magic, which he doesn't know what to do with. He doesn't shockingly. If I just randomly started spouting out things for my hands, I'd like to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:29

Especially when magic is supposed to still be gone. Like, this is the last book that we'll not really the last book, kind of the last book, where we don't really see a lot of magic yet. And so him having magic is a big deal because they're not supposed to have it yet in this world.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:43

Yeah, and so it's interesting because he knows, like, I'm the not only am I a prince to a king who hates magic, but I have a lot of it, and it's raw magic, which means you can do anything you want with it. And I love that detail that she threw in there. It's like only Aileen noticed that at first. It was like, oh no, this is raw magic. You can do whatever you want with it. I'm like, first of all, how do you know that? Which is what kind of led me to the assumption she was Aileen when she's brought in later on.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:09

She's got really audience it knows what she's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:11

She knows what she's talking about, and so I loved that, and I love that he can use that magic however he wants to, which you see more of that later in the series, but that's just such a fun detail. So I know I I completely agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:21

And then our our character Nahima, I always say it wrong. She can get her reading and not listening. Yeah, she dies in this one. But what's interesting with that too is it really brings more of the plot to you because you see that it's the king who did it, and so you start really seeing like you already know the king's a little iffy, right? But you see that and see that he's willing to kill the senselina message, and you're like, oh yeah. Um let's pivot.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:52

Yes. Uh so I think my favorite part though, in that is that it really the way that it takes Selena and completely transforms her character, the second half of the book. Like the anger and the rage that comes from her and the way she splits on KO and that scene. I think I even texted you about this when I read this thing, because I was like, it feels like she's a completely different person. Yeah, like she literally completely switched to it. Almost bipolar, but not, but not, yeah. And part of me when I was reading this for the first time is like, does she like turn into an animal? Is there like a is she like a completely different because in my head, I was like, is she Faye? And she's gonna like devour this human being because of her rage and her grief. Almost, but almost she's Faye, but like not Faye. So anyway, Demi Fey. Demi Faye, yeah, a lot of power, but anyway, small details, small details, and then also in this one, like you actually get the big reveal that she's Ailen, that she's Ailen, and oh and my favorite one of my favorite parts too is towards the end of this book where she goes into a portal. Again, Lisa, spoilers for the end of this book. You signed up for that, but anyway. But the fact that Kale sees her transform into her Faye form, and that was such a big reveal to me. Because, like, okay, clearly she's this lost princess. I'm kind of it was in my head canon before even the end of the book at this point. But then she goes into this portal and she completely changes into Faye. And I was like, What? I didn't realize you were gonna have I knew you were gonna have powers. I didn't know you were gonna be Faye, like that's why because you're introduced to Dorian who has magic, so I'm like, oh, maybe maybe humans can just have magic, and she has a lot of it. She's gonna be like the chosen one. Wait, you're a species, right? What? That was a big surprise to me. I'm not gonna lie. That was really cool. Oh, but and that scene was really well written. The way that she talks about her slowly transforming as she's going towards this monster to kill it. I was like, oh, I can picture this perfectly in my brain. Anyway, so it's like you were there, it's like I was there. Yeah. So continue. Sorry, I decided to add that in there. Oh no, you're good.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:51

That is all I have for the plot summary.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

Yes. And then she sent off to the phalans at the end of the book. Yes. Which is wild.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:58

So our general main character breakdown. Uh naturally, we have Selene slash Aileen. Um, never did you think that before. Uh the name reveal really isn't it's not just a plot twist, but it's a character moment. It's her really hitting that wall and being like, you know what? All right, Selena was my mask, but this is who I am. And it really it changes everything for the book. And I still remember that I was that person. Um as I was reading this book, I was like, you know what? I want to see some spoilers. So I may or may not have looked up some of just like and I didn't look up like what happened or anything. I was just I don't remember what I exactly searched, but I searched something and it started talking about, and it was before I knew she was Alan, and it started talking about how Aline was great and like you'll get it when you get it, like type of deal. And I'm like, who's Aline? Who's Rowan? Rowan, like, who are these people, right? What do you mean? Right, I think I'm gonna want him to be their her guy instead of Dorian, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:00

Get out of here. Um, yeah, there's so many things. But yeah, the Selena Allen reveal I was so well done because she didn't just out loud out loud say, like, I am Aileen Galathinias, like she had she just tells Kale a date, and Cale has to kind of go on this like scavenger hunt, the last page or chapter of the book. Really, though, and he's already like heartbroken because he knows he's never gonna have like never gonna have her again as his own.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:27

Can you imagine going on a scavenger hunt for somebody who just broke your heart? Broke your heart, and you literally just told him you love them, and she's like, Thanks, but like bye. Yeah, and so you know she's gonna pick someone else, but you're still like laying your life down to go on this random scavenger, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:44

To know who she is, to know what that date means. And it's wild because it's it's from his perspective. He's like, She wasn't just in league with Ailen Galathenius, she was Aileen Galathenius, yeah. And it's just this huge moment that I I think if I hadn't already suspected, it would have hit harder. Um, but it was just such a cool way to reveal it because I would have expected her to be like, yeah, I'm Aileen, like you know what I mean. Yeah, but I think the reason it's not is because she still isn't fully sure she wants to walk into it yet, but she knows she has to. Like, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

Because when you walk through air fire, which we'll get to next episode, but like she really is struggling with that identity. Like she knows she has to, but she doesn't want to yet. Absolutely, it's like her like first steps, little toddler walking, if you will, of like, I have to be called this, but I don't know how to do it quite just yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:37

It's been 10 years. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's really lovely about this book, too, in in her character reveal is you really see how she's protecting everyone quietly, uh, while everyone else around her is like she's just doing all this for her own good, like she's just pushing me out, and it's like actually in her mind, she's doing all this to protect you. Like you have no idea the burden on her shoulders right now. She hasn't shared anything, yeah. And it's not at a fault to you because she hasn't told you, right? But at the same time, it's like, oh, if you only knew, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:16

Yeah. So yeah, I agree. And her character gets so much more depth in this book, and it builds, and I the second read it felt it was like, oh my gosh, there's a hint, there's a hint, there's a hint, there's a hint, not only for who she is, but her backstory. And so it's almost like more emotionally damaging, which we'll get to next, but I love it. Um, which is really sad and devastating because it does does take that that death of her best friend in order to catalyst that, but yeah, so I loved that. It was sad but heartbreaking, but good all at the same time. Sarah J. Mass, you are a mastermind at breaking my heart. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:53

Oh, if if we could just assign titles to this world, that would be her title.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:57

That would be her title. I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:58

All right, good old Kale, like a kale salad. Like a kale salad. We love and hate you in this book. Just kidding. Are you not really? Um, so in this one, he his character in this one, anyways, he chose his loyalty to the king over telling her the truth. Even though he genuinely thought he she was protecting him, he was protecting her. Yeah. Um, but he wasn't. And it goes back to that whole duty thing. And sir.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

And I think in the moment it because when you read it, you feel like it's like this last minute call, last minute decision. But it wasn't. But it wasn't because he he had had suspicions prior to that, and I don't think I realized that till like my second read of the book of like, no, you had prior assumptions here. You saw things, you chose to look the other way. And that's kind of what makes it more emotionally damaging for Selena.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:54

Oh, I completely agree. And I'm not saying he's a villain either, but what we are saying is that stating something like I was just protecting you at the end of it, like of something going on, it's it's not an excuse. It's not an excuse. When someone else had to pay the price, like right. It's cost somebody's life and not just somebody, it was her best friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:16

Exactly. Someone that he knew she cared very deeply for, has even commended her for that. Yes, right. And so and I put off of that note was yes, the way that this was a true beginning of his own character journey is also kind of sad because it's necessary, but to watch him have to go through his own heartbreak because he he is devastated of the decision that he made, but he's not willing to own up to it yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:39

But he's it's partly because he's devastated because he wants her, he wants a reality with her, he wants a life with her. It's just completely different versions.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:47

Yes, they both have completely different ideas of who each other are and what they both want. Yes, which makes it which should have been their first size of like we're not meant to be together, but you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:58

And I mean, frankly, I'm kind of skipping around here, but uh like Dorian does too. She has her own, she has her own life, he has Dorian has a life work, Cale has a life for her. They are all so different, so different, but they all have these different realities, and I just think it's so intriguing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:17

It is because the dynamics are so much more complicated, and that's what I think um Sarah J. Mas does so well in this series is that she allows the characters to make bad decisions, she allows their relationship dynamics to be messy. Like, I love, love, love that she doesn't meet her like love of her life, love of her life, but book one. Sorry, that's a spoiler alert, but like I love that she is letting them make like these hard decisions and complicated relationships and messing up, and they have this, they need to grow because I just think again, it's more realistic, it's more fun to read that way. And so, again, I'm sorry you're not gonna get your Avatar book two romance for a while, but it makes it more fun to read that way. This is definitely more plot forward, and I mean, but in a good way. The whole time you're also kind of guessing, like, yeah, but will she go back to Kale? Yeah, because there's a moment with Dorian, which is the next character, which I'll let you read in a second, but she has this moment where it's like, I'll come back for you. And my heart who loves Dorian was like, Yes, please let you be endgame. Please let you be endgame. Oh, I love you, Dorian. I am a Dorian fan, okay? Kaylin is a hardcore Dorian fan. Hardcore Dorian fan. At the end, even at the end of the series. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:32

We do. Be great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:34

We'll talk about it when we get there. Maybe if we can. We can. Our friendship can make it, I promise. We've been through worse. We have been through worse. Talk about it another day.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:46

Well, it's not at least on air.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:48

Yeah, we can talk about it off air. It's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:52

We are kidding, to be clear.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:54

Yes. We are all good, happy. That's the reason why we can joke about it. Exactly. The next character is Dorian. Dorian.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:03

Um, he finds his magic in this one, which, as we've kind of touched about, is punishable by death. Like, not only is it not exist, it's punishable by death. Beheading. And how ironic that it was given by his father of that. And he completely hides it and is completely alone, which is honestly quietly the bravest thing in this book.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:25

Because heart breaks for him in this book.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:27

Oh, it really does. Absolutely. And then on top of that, like he lets Selena go and he doesn't try to hold on, he doesn't make it about him. And for him alone, that's gross. Because he went from being this prince that had no experience, that it's all about him, to being center of attention.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:45

Get everything I want. Exactly. To taking a step back and being like, I need to grow as a character, like, I need to grow myself as a human. And because of that, like it means me not being first. And I'm gonna I I care about you enough to put you first, and he does it. And also, I think it's intriguing, and it says a lot that when this happened, like he already didn't have the relationship with his father as a father, he had it as a king, right? And that's also why he didn't even feel like he could tell him. Tell him, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:16

Well, and because he's sees the man that he's become and knows that he can't trust his judgment. Yeah, it's all right. I think with Dorian, really, I didn't put any notes here, but um it broke my heart to see him, like you said, walk through this alone. Like he's going through this life-changing experience, knowing that it politically it means death, but he can't control it. It's not like it's something he can just turn on and off, right? And so I couldn't imagine, I I was and he doesn't even know how to turn it on or off. Right, exactly. He has zero control, it just showed up one day. And so it's really, really cool and sad to see that he's like, No, I let Selena go and I love KO. I need to let him have his chance with her because they clearly have feelings for each other. It is my job to handle this as as much as I can. And he almost reaches out to each one of them, even a Hamia. And yet he has no one to go to because he can't find them when he needs them. And so it there was a little part of me that's like, Oh, Dorian, I'm so sorry that you have to go through this alone. Yeah, um, I'll be there for you. I'll be there for you. No, but like it was it was cool to see, like you said, the character development there start to begin because it you know just goes more down the road. But it was cool to see that he's like, No, I'm gonna put others first, and this needs to be on the backbone. It's a dark thing, even though it's such a good art, big thing, yeah. And next is Nahemia. That's all you.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:31

She's yours.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:32

I love Nahemia. Okay, so this is her last book. Sorry, boy, sorry, boys and girls, but she dies, and so she deserved so much more. Uh, she did, but she knew she was she might die and she chose it anyway. Um, she trusted Selena to finish what she started, and that's something that I feel like on the second read hits more. Um, I put as a note here that also the way that the chapter between her and Elena, when she's talking about her having To choose to die, which you don't realize that until later on that when she actually dies, if that's what they're talking about. But it felt like a betrayal on the second read, even though it was for Selena slash Alain's own growth. Um, it was just incredible writing because on the second read, you're like, Oh my gosh, this is what that meant. Yeah, she's saying, I need to catalyst her because she won't change otherwise. And Aylen knew that, and Elena knew that. And so, or not Aylen, um Nahamia knew that and Elena knew that. Um, and I just can't imagine being Nahemia knowing, like, I'm gonna give my life and this is the best gift I could ever give you. But Aileen's like, no, this is the worst thing you could have ever done for me, right? Like the complete opposite of what she wanted, but she would not have chosen to become Aileen otherwise. Oh, absolutely not. And on a second read, like again, it's just like a knife and then a twist. Sorry. I hate a best friend that makes me cry every time. I didn't cry the second time, but the first time I teared up for sure. Just because of her immediate reaction, Selena just completely flips a switch, completely different person.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:03

100% and her letter, like it explains everything, but it's almost worse knowing um than not knowing, right? Like, yeah, and I mean that's great writing on her part and Sarah's, but Lord help me, I hated it. I hated it, I did not want to know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:19

Uh, if you get emotionally attached to characters, especially side characters, like I do, because I always love the side characters more usually. This is this was the one series where Aileen Sashelino I loved the most, so it was rare for me. But Nahemia was a close second in those first two books, and so just watch her die, uh, it was terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:36

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:37

Brings us to the emotional damage scale.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:39

What a great sex transition words. Oh, they're hard sometimes. Yes, they are. Um, so for me, this book was a 10 out of 10. The book committed crimes against my emotions. Um, I mean, Nahemia's death alone was a 10, but oh, another scene where my heart hurt, it just ripped it out and stabbed it and put it back and ripped it again. Yeah. Um, was when Selena went after Kale. Afterwards. And the grief in that scene is so raw and unfiltered that it doesn't even feel like fiction. Right. And when you've experienced grief like that and been in a moment of like people are saying things that they don't mean because it's all the grief coming out, like you know how raw how it can be. Yeah. Because when grief hits and you're you're to the point of that unfilteredness, like it is raw.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:34

There's no going back from what is said, but the oh, there's just oh, there's so much with that that I can say.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:40

But that scene alone, like, my heart just there's no more word. I don't I have so many words and none at the same time. Because it just it ripped it rips the words around.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:50

I 100% agree. The second that I read because in that scene, Selena sees the scene of Nahemia's body mutilated, blood everywhere, and then she turns to Kale and tackles him and tried to kill him. But she the when she says the words, you will always be my enemy. And the fact that literally pages before, like not even like chapters, pages before she was saying how much she thinks she's in love with this man, and this she now she's about to literally kill him. She can't hold back her anger and her rage because she knows that he was a part of this, even if indirectly, because he is the captain of the guard. Um, it was like, I can't imagine like the way that it catalysts her character as well as Kale's in that moment. Again, super well written. Because again, the next chapter it talks about from his perspective about how he knows he's lost her for good. Like he wants her and he knows what he did was wrong. But you that's what starts this doubting of the king, because he knows the king's involved somehow. And like, so again, it starts his own character catalyst and this identity crisis for him because his identity's caught up in his work, but also like the way that it's so real, character dynamic-wise in terms of relationships. Like, what I relate it to is the fact of this, and maybe this says too much about me, I don't know, but like the way that I related to the um hatred and the tension between them because it's something that's irr irreparable, right? Eventually, hopefully, maybe down the road in the series, we'll see resolution between them. We'll see. Um, but the fact that it's such a deep divide because it comes from death of a friend. Yeah, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:29

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:30

I relate it a little bit too much to that raw emotion of this tension of like I could never forgive you, right? Um, and even if you've never experienced that kind of grief in terms of like relationship depth, not just someone betraying you, but someone you loved purposely and intentionally withholding things from you. Absolutely. There's depth there that it's almost irreparable. So I loved that and hated that on the same time. So yes, my emotional damage scale is also a 10. A little too relatable.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:59

You know, it's a book you should read when it's a 10 out of 10. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:03

Emotional trauma bond.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:06

We love a trauma bond. We love a trauma bond. Speaking of datum, therapy or 911. So Aline, you know, um, now that we're I love that we keep adding her to this list. Always there's different in different books, she has different opinions. That's true. That's true, and it's just like a person, okay? It's just like in real life, it's like the people. You know, maybe me at 18, maybe not date me yet. Maybe I have some trauma to get through. Maybe me at 28, Lord help me, where's my man? You know, like we've done the healing. I've done this. I cannot attend dateable.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:47

I love that you said support her, not date her.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:51

Yeah. And I think Aline understands. Aline is the same. She had she needed some therapy, she had things she needed to work through. Yeah. Um, depending on where she was in in the book, and at different parts of the book, totally dateable. That's true. Other parts, mmm, therapy. Yeah, therapy. The post-nahameusing therapy. She's attacking Cal maybe call 911.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:13

Right. Um, grave, but you know. It's fine. He deserved to die. I get it. I'm just saying. Probably still needs therapy. He didn't deserve to die.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:24

He just didn't do what he probably should have done.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:28

I stand by what I said.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:29

He did what he thought was best.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:31

Yeah, sure. For money. Yeah. Listen. It said that he was happy to do it in his perspective. So I would just say, you know what? I don't feel bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:42

That's valid. I tried to save for him, but I can't. You can't. Anyways, yeah, support her, not date her in this one. She's lost everything and is being sent away alone. She needs a spa day, not a love entry. Yep. Uh, so that's that's for that one. I'm gonna have you speak on Kale since he's your favorite. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:03

Okay. So, what I will say is that I loved uh Jess's notes on here. So I'm gonna read hers. Um, she gives him a yellow flag, upgraded to an orange flag. And here's why I totally agree because he already had some issues with his identity being solely around his work and his purpose. Yes. And then he goes and, like you said earlier, commits to the king and agrees to withhold information from her, which upgrades to an orange, because we already know that you probably shouldn't. He's already suspecting issues with the king and his decisions, and yet he still doesn't say anything. But he's still just holding on to his duty. And then the best part is when she says, good intentions, genuinely bad execution needs to sit with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:49

That's why he's an orange.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:53

So glad. I love seeing your reactions to what I read.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:58

Jess is the funny one. That's why I laugh so much at her notes because they're just so good. And most of the time I don't have anything to add. So there you go. Get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:06

You're a funny one, too. All right. She's over here crying, actually. It's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:11

I cry when I laugh really hard. So it's true. Sorry. We do. Whoever end up on YouTube, you'll see a lot of that. I just can't wear makeup those days.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:19

That's like any day together. I know, it's true. We're always like, why did I wear makeup today? I don't know. Um, all right. So Dorian, he's rising in the ranks. We're dating him. He doesn't need therapy now. Okay, him go. He's going through things, he's growing in real time, and I respect it. She's like, he's climbing the ranks of my boyfriend list. He's pretty low right now, but he's climbing the ranks. I didn't say he was low. It's like mid. Okay, that's respectable. That's respectful. Yeah, because he already showed some growth. He's he's truly growing. He's putting others first. Yep. He's he's just Dorian.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:54

Precious boy.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:55

I love Dorian. Precious boy. Precious boy. All right. The fact that you still had to make me a tempest less. Is it because she's only in two books? She has to feed everyone. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:06

Okay, leave me be.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:07

No, I'm here for it. I love it. Um, she's the best one. I agree. No notes. Gone too soon. Still carrying this loss, not accepting it. Why am I the same? Uh no, but seriously, Nahemia shows so much of um what best friends should be. Like she is willing to put herself um on the chopping block, literally. Is that too soon? I don't know. But for her best friend.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:33

It's always too soon when it comes to her. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:36

So yeah, I would definitely say date her, but you can't, because sorry, she's gone.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:44

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:45

Alright, and favorite quotes. Favorite quotes. How about you take the first one? I love this one. So this is one that's quoted quite a lot, and for good reason. Like I said, this is the biggest reveal of these first two books, and that is um when she is revealed as Ailen, and it's quoted as this she was Ailen Astro Virg Galathenius, and she was the heir of fire. And I love this because Air of Fire is the title of the next book, and it's used a few times in that book for a good reason. And you'll if you read the next book, you'll realize why. So I will not give spoilers for that. But um, I loved that. I love that it connected the two books. And when this is revealed again, it's from Kale's POV, which I just thought was brilliant because Ailen isn't ready to identify herself as Ailen yet. Um, but she wants someone else to know her identity and know why she's making the decisions that she's making and why she does the things that she does. And the fact that she lets Kale figure that out when she doesn't even fully trust him, I thought was actually really respectable for her because she's choosing to trust him even though she doesn't want to. That's a little bit of growth, I think, towards the end of that book.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:45

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:46

Um but my favorite part is the notes that Jess had here, and she said, Wait, this whole series just shifted. The sentence changed the air in the room, and I felt it.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:57

I'm a little bit like a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:58

Can you tell that she's dramatic and I love it?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:01

Let me add some death and drama. So good. Death not dead. You can do the next one. All right. You were my enemy the moment you chose to serve the king. Celine says that to Kale, and when she says that, it's just a oof. It's a like sit in silence for a second moment in my book. Yeah. Because she finally said the thing that we're all thinking. She finally said the thing that nobody wants to say. Right. And I love people that'll say the things that nobody wants to say. It's like we're thinking it, might as well say it aloud. Exactly. And we're both like that, which is we are dangerous for other people, but great for us. Great for us. So I just really I just appreciated that quote. I appreciated that she did that. And I feel like it it shows her and her growth too. Of like the fact that she's willing to do what needs to be done and say what needs to be said and move on. Right. Um, which kind of leads into why do we like this book in series? Yes. Um, Crown of Midnight is just a book that the se the whole series becomes what it actually is. Everything else before was a setup. Yes. Um for it. And that's what we meant by it can be like slow going in, but like get get you through that slow part and you see the world beyond.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:19

Yeah. Um I remember it was so funny when I was rereading Crown of Midnight. I was like, oh, that happens in this book. Oh, that happens in this book. Like there's so much that happens in this book that you don't remember because it is such a setup for the rest of the series.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:32

And you think it happened in like book five. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:34

Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:35

It was only three.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:37

Yep. I agree. I feel like I'm always going back to grief. What's that say about me? Um you had a lot of growth. She laughs. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:48

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:49

Any time. Oh, Loyanta. Sarah J. Mass. Like, I just have to say it again. Like, she writes grief better than almost anyone, and probably anyone that I've actually read their books of so far. Like, she doesn't rush it, she doesn't pretty it up, she lets it be messy, and that's okay. Right. And I just something about that I adore.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:11

Yeah, I and I wrote off of that. I think that I love that again, she lets them be messy and she lets that those messy parts of the relationships and the plot line and everything that happens to them, she lets it change the character. Um, even if she didn't expect it to, and I think she talked about that again in that call her daddy podcast. Yeah, but I love that because I think sometimes in writing it's so tempting for the author to be like, okay, yes, this happened and it's unfortunate, but you grieve and you move on, and you keep these certain pieces of your character because you can departmentalize it. Yeah, because you can as an author, but I think it's more realistic in character development to be like, no, this would dramatically change this about a person. And it continues, and it continues, and they have to learn to deal with it throughout the rest of the series. And so I really love, and I put I put in here such good writing in all caps because it's so true. Like it is when something happens very traumatic for a character, they're not just gonna go back and be wholly idealistic like they were before, or in in uh Ailen's sense, she's not gonna just go back and be the Selena that she was, and it's not just gonna change at the end of the chapter. No, it will not, and so I love that she does such a good job of bringing that back page after page. And I think for a reader's perspective, again, if you've never experienced grief or trauma to that level, I'm it may be hard to understand, but like it is moment after moment, it is process after process, it is day after day. And so I love that she doesn't make it um what's the word annoying in a way, but like she makes it realistic and lets that play out on the page as it should. And that's even more I think kudos to her as a writer with the rest of the series and where she takes Ailen's arc because shit it's just thing after thing after thing. So such good writing. I love you, Sarah Day Mass.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:52

We love it, and the identity identity identity reveal is just one of those, one of the best that I've read that it's just like, oh, so that's what this is, right? Kind of moments in fantasy, and I just appreciated that. And I know someone's a little bit proud over there. I think how about you just say what you wrote there?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:17

Um, I was very proud of myself, okay, for seeing that coming that she is Alain. I think you should be.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:24

She started texting me so like mid book or something like that on it, and I'm just over there like, gosh dang it, gosh. Just let it happen. Just let it happen. But I I mean, pardon me, I was like, Yeah, you got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:35

You got it, keep going. You got it, go, go, go. It's so hard too, because I love surprises, but like since when I read a lot of fantasy, it's hard to not pick up on things. It is, and so like I need to refresh some of the genres that I read so that way I can be surprised more often. Nah. But I just I love fantasy so much because you get pulled into a completely different world. So and Sarah Damas says that really well too. Absolutely. I was very proud of seeing that coming. So thank you very much. Because I didn't even like look up any like you know, uh spoilers or anything. So I was proud of myself.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:04

Didn't mean to. I'm sorry. She just said, unlike some people, all right. On that note, if you're not hooked after this book, I genuinely do not know what to tell you. This is where it all begins. And with uh Air of Fire being next, Aline going to the Phalands, everything's getting bigger, maybe better, maybe worse.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:26

We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:27

We're not complicated. Definitely gets more complicated. Absolutely. And I what I love about next book is that the world expands because you go to the Phalanx, the conflict gets more complex, and then you also get more characters. So I'm excited to talk about that with next episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:43

It'll be so good. We're not prepared, but we're gonna go anyways.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:46

Right, okay, because Airfire is probably one of my favorite books. Going through this reread is one of my favorite, top favorite of this series. So love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:53

Love it. Well, we love it, we love you. We hope to see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:58

Yes, be sure to follow us on social media and be sure to like and subscribe to this podcast. But thank you so much for listening to us. And if you enjoyed our creative and somewhat fun banter, be sure to hit the subscribe button to follow along.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:13

Somewhat fun. We're the best, we're the best.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:17

Best banter, best banter. But this has been Books, Bruce, and banter. I'm Kate. I'm Jess. We'll see you next time. Too da loo.

unknown 1:45:27

Bye.