Caraval Episode 2

We're back in the Caraval world — but this time Tella is running the show, she has a deal with Fate, and everything we thought we knew is a lie. Again. Are we surprised? Maybe. Should we have been? Details? Do we need to download all of our thoughts? Immediately. Welcome back to Jess and Cait adventures, friends. Finale season, or just the Finale of Caraval? Jury is still out. Let's chat.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Hello, bookworms. I'm Kate.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And I'm Jess.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

And this is Book Spruz and Banter. If you're new here, hi. Hello. We love to talk about all things books ish. On today's episode, we're back in the Caravel world. But this time, Tella is running the show. She has a deal with a fate, who we will mention here soon because Jess is obsessed. Everything we thought we knew is a lie. Again, not surprising because we're in Caravel. My favorite thing about this, these next two books is that it does go back and forth. This second book specifically is really Donna Tella focused. She goes by Tella, but uh her full name is Donatella, which was such a fun name because it's very weird and very unique.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

It is, but I kind of love it. I kind of love it too. Maybe I'll name my child that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

We'll go with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I trust you. I can see it. I can see it too. But anyway, Jess will start us off with the plot summary of the second book uh Legendary.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

I already gave you a plot toast with my child's name now. Let's go to that summary. Um I love it. I love it. So Legendary picks right up after Carabel ends. This time, um, as Caitlin kind of already mentioned, it's in Tella's point of view, and she is not the chaotic, chaotic, chaotic, like me, sidekick anymore. She is the main event. We love that for her. We love that. Um, Tella is in Carabel yet again, but this time she has met a fate. You'll learn a lot more about fates in these two books. Pay attention. Um, if you have questions about the fates, also it's a fun fact. There's a glossary on all the fates and like the fated objects and everything at the back of the book. And I just I think that's good to mention because if you haven't read any of her other series, it'll kind of help you follow along a bit. Um, so Jax is actually the Prince of Hearts. Um, and basically he could uh destroy everything if she doesn't win this. So low-key, it's fine. It's fine, no pressure at all. She's hunting for her mother who went missing years ago. And the closer she gets, the darker the secrets come and the darker the truths come out. Yeah. Um That's a big part of her character arc, I think, is this reveal about her mom. So absolutely. Absolutely, and then you add in legend himself finally, finally stepping into the page and a new love interest who is equal parts intoxicating and dangerous. It's a lot, but in the best way, in the best way.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

We love that, yes, and so um character breakdown. I will wanna I do want to say before we jump into this, uh, there is a big spoiler that we're gonna be talking about with book two. With that, it's gonna be in regards to Legend's identity, which is gonna be part of this main character breakdown. So, spoiler warning if you haven't read books two and three of the Caravel series, sorry. Read and come back.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

So, the one you do know about, Donatella. Um it's she's actually our point of view character this time. She's the bold one, smarter than she licks, and she knows it. Yes, she does. We love that.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

I love her sassiness. It becomes like full page or full on page, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I like full page, she's full page sarcastic, full page sassy. Let's go. Um, she's just so fun to be in the head of. I agree. And she plays the game differently than anyone else. Um, and I especially Scarlett. Yeah, their way of playing it is almost completely opposite. Completely different. And Scarlett's like, hold on, let me think this through, let me figure it out. And Tella's just like, I'm gonna be strategic, but dramatic and reckless if I need to be, and we love that for her. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

I think um with the next one, Jack's Prince of Hearts. There needs to be a little bit more of context here, but he is a main character in the second book, so he's a fate, and the fates are created in this mythical world by I think it's by a witch, by a witch, yes, and she creates what's called fates from mortal people. All these people were once mortal, but she creates them to be immortal people with different powers, and they were all trapped into this thing called a deck of destiny, deck of destiny cards, yeah. Yes, and so they were all trapped in these cards for a while, and now they're trying to get basically trying to break out of them, and the Prince of Hearts is trying to break them out, is probably what I should say. So Jax is a big part of this plot for that reason. That's his motivation. Um, but I love what Jess put for these notes. He's a fate, he's a manipulator, he's morally gray, loved and tressed with a capital M. Capital M for the morally gray. Because you really don't know where his his motivations are coming from. And even up until probably the last end of the last book, really are they're not revealed. And so that's what Jess loves the most, is the morally gray. So if that says anything about her, I don't know. I don't know. But uh for her quick take here, she put Jax is the unhinged romantic interest of the series, and he earns it. Can you tell she has a bias? It's okay, I do too, so it's fine. He can be touched without killing people, which makes him so intriguing, and he's obsessed with Tella for reasons we won't explain, and he deeply is deeply, deeply not okay. We love him, but I put love is a strong word. Obsessed, maybe that's what I would say. So we do love Jax, he's fun, he's really funny. His banter with stell with Tella is really um engaging, in my opinion. It really keeps it fun and in the scenes with him. You're kind of like rooting for him in a way because you're kind of like, oh, I kind of feel bad for you. But like I kind of like you at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Nine times out of ten, you're just like, when did he get here? Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

And somehow he knows everything that's going on. Like what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Literally, everything he knows how to help. He and does he help? Does he not? But also at times you're like, is he helping right now? Because I don't think so. Yeah, but you don't think so. But then you're like, Oh my goodness. She is. So I just yep.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

And the best part is at the beginning of this book, book two, Tella almost like tricks herself into kissing him, and he's supposed to kill people with his kisses. And so when she doesn't immediately die, it's like your first clue of like, What's going on here?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Well, uh correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think she even knows for certain that he's the Prince of Hearts yet. Not yet. When she kissed him.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Well, actually, I thought he doesn't confirm it, but she's pretty convinced because of their conversation behind the fountain before that.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Okay, okay. I for some reason I had in my head that she didn't know for certain yet, and that's why she kissed him.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

He alludes to it with her conversation before, but he doesn't directly confirm.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Well, maybe she was just being a little deluloo in that moment and was like, maybe not. Maybe that wasn't true.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

He didn't confirm it. Man, but after they kiss, he confirms it by saying, You're my kiss won't immediately kill you until the end of Carabel. And it's like, oh, thanks. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Which plays into the plot. But speaking of Carabelle, our main man, the myth, the legend, and Dante. There's your character reveal. There's your character reveal.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

It's Dante. First of all, I loved this reveal, I'm not gonna lie, because there are so many hints about who he is throughout the beginning of the book, and it's revealed like what halfway, two-thirds through. Yeah. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Anyway. He's the man behind the curtain, finally revealed. Complicated doesn't even bl begin to cover this man. It's true. It's very complicated. And we absolutely love him. We love him. Um, he is just everything about him is a misdirect that you read, you never know what's true, what's not. It's true. And once you even meet him properly in the book, you go back and rethink literally everything that he's done, and you also realize that Stephanie Garber is ruthless.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Yes. And what's so funny about his character to me is that even after, even after he's revealed, and Tella is like, I don't even know if I can trust you, and he's like almost offended by it. And it's like, what do you expect? Mabro, literally, you misdirect everything. I don't know why you're surprised. I'd be surprised too. Anyway, side note. They're their dynamic, legends and tell us is really fun throughout the book for that reason. They're both like, she's like, dude, I don't know if I can trust you. And he's like, I'm offended by that, but like, fair.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Same man, same.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Leading into the emotional damage scale.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Ugh. So emotional damage scale for me on this one. Maybe I was a little too generous, but I don't think so. Um, it was an eight. It was an eight. Uh, and the reason like that hit the hardest, in my opinion, was Jackson Tella's dynamic that does the real damage. Yeah. Um, especially the scene where you realize why he's fixated on her. Yeah. And that the ache of that is just something.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah. And because there's a look in his eyes at that moment. The way Stephanie described it, I probably should have put it in our quote section, but I didn't. But I forget the exact language she uses because again, she uses really beautiful language, but he had this like sadness almost, this like pout. And and like I forget exactly how she put it, but I was almost like, oh, like I shouldn't feel bad for you, but I do.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

And it's like that in multiple, like multiple parts with him. Like, yeah, I agree. In moments that you might question, then suddenly she comes in with this verbiage of how he looks or how he feels, and you just immediately go from like, what the frick frack are you doing? to like, oh, let me hold you.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Let me comfort you.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

You like almost secretly want to root for him, even though you hate him at the same time. And it's like, that's that's a well-written, like villain morally gray love interest.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I was rooting for him in the background the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Can you tell Jess Loves Jackson?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

No, and I I love Legend too, but that's okay. No, there's just I love Legend.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

No, I love him for the both of us.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

There's just something about Jax that I'm like, you're misunderstood, my friend. You're misunderstood. You're just misunderstood.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

And honestly, I would agree with that if you read her other series. We nod nod.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I think that if I had read, so we both of us read Another Broken Series Bro who Once Upon a Broken Heart. She knows it. Yay! That series. That one. Um, we both read that one first, and so I think that's also partly why when I read this book, I was like, no, he's misunderstood. He's just misunderstood. I know his heart. I know his or lack thereof. Right. Um I know him too. I can see into his mind. Right. Because of that. So maybe you want to feel that way and share in my share in my admiration.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

So fun fact uh Once Upon a Broken Heart is technically a spin-off series of Carabao. So the correct chronological order of reading these stories is Carabel and then Once Upon a Broken Heart, you can read it however you want to. Clearly, we read the opposite, but just know that that's how chronologically they were written and intended to be read. Um, but if you want to read more about Jax in another series, there are three other books, and you are in luck. You want to read it. There you go. We'll probably end up talking about it on this podcast eventually because we're both obsessed with it. I loved that series, but we're gonna stick the series with about Jax. I did. I didn't say I disliked Jax, but in this series, I was rooting for for Dante.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

I was, I'm not gonna lie. I was rooting for Dante too, completely. I don't know how, but I was rooting for both, you know? It was like I'll be content either way, but also I'll be deeply saddened either way. Yeah, just both extremes all at once, always. Always.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Um but I agree. I would put an eight for the emotional damage scale as well, especially because uh in the section where because we have in our outline, we have what hit hardest, what surprised you did you ugly cry? I didn't ugly cry, but I will say there were a few scenes that were hard to read, and I put they genuinely felt my heartbreak for Tella. And if you have mommy issues like Jess and I do, um, be warned here when you read this series because it will get at your heart strings very deeply.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Um at us both.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

No need to apologize.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Um, but yeah, like I I completely agree with all of that. I think if you have mommy issues to have some tissues, there you go. She said it best. We didn't even mean to do that, but here we are. Um just because like there are parts that will definitely tug at your heartstrings. And one other thing is that I think that this book just definitely took an eerie turn that I wasn't necessarily expecting because you're expecting to just go into another caravel and you're like, okay, it's gonna be the same, and then you're like, what do you mean it's real?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

But that almost is like better writing, in my opinion, because she because again in book one, she completely turns it on its head to say literally everything you knew in Caravel was fake. Julian was a player, the guy who was legend isn't actually legend, like you just go on this wild ride, and so you walk into legendary thinking it's gonna be exactly the same in terms of the game itself. And I you wrote you wrote it really well in the notes here. Like it's so much darker legendary goes compared to Caravel. It's not just a fun game, it's the stakes are existential, and the mythology gets not only eerie, but real. Like, there are so many times when Tella is being told, no, this is real, this is not just a game, there's more at stake. And she's like, no, Carabel.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

And she doesn't want to believe it.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah, because she was told so often in the last caravel because she was a she was a background character in it. Like, no, you're just a player. This isn't real. We we want her to believe it is, but it's not, and so she has that as a comparison, and so the way it's written is so good because you as a reader, like, I don't know what to believe. Because there are people a part of this who are telling her it's real, and she's like, No, I know that you're supposed to say that, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

So and then you have these like outside people coming in now and like making decisions and saying things and whatnot, like the fates, and it's like, okay, but you're a fate. Like, can I trust you? Are you a player? Right. Are you a part of this? Yeah, how are you a part of this? But oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

For me as a reader, it wasn't until she met the undead queen and her handmaid, as I was like, okay, something else is going on here for sure. And then, you know, legend sweeps in, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

But saves the day, saves her some blood. We love it. Um, vampire over here. Speaking of being vampires, do you want to uh call 911, date them, or send them off to therapy. I love it. You added Tella to the slice.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

I love you so much. Can we notice that?

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Why am I always surprised by this?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I don't know why. If you if you listen to our other ones that we've recorded so far, I think every single one of these, when she gets when we get to the datum therapy or call 911, Caitlin says something of like you added them. Like I don't know why I'm so surprised.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

I need to expect it. Uh, here we are. You don't ever know what to expect with me, though. That's true. You are a wild card and of yourself. Thank you. We love you.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Speaking of wild cards.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

So, Vertella, you put date.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah, because she's a wild card like me. Um, she's love it. She's chaotic, but she's self-aware. Um, which in my opinion gives her points. And she's she's loyal to a fault, but what people don't realize is her chaos is actually a plan. It is, yeah. And I just felt that deeply.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Um, and sometimes she's like, I felt exemplified and it was so satisfying.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

It really was. Um, like, because sometimes the plan, like, it's a plan, it might be unhinged. You might be like, Are you sure, girl? Um, but it it works and it's great. And she actually does have a reason behind her actions, even when it seems like it's the most offhand thing to do. Same girl, same, same girl, same. Um so, in my opinion, solid partner energy.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah, that's fair. And I will say, what did surprise me about her character is exactly what you said that like she's chaotic, and even Scarlett would say different things about that when her own POV in book one is like, oh, Tello would do this, or Tella would do that, and it was something very extravagant or like very like off-handed. It was not the safe option, it wasn't the safe option at all. And then here you see when you're in her POV, oh, there's a reason for it. Like, she's like has a background plan in her mind, is what she's trying to accomplish. And so I really did give her props for that. I was like, okay, you're chaotic, but you like kind of like Ailen and Tog. Yeah, she has stuff going on, she just feels like she's chaotic. Some people say chaos chaos, I say curiosity. There you go. Um, so anyway, yeah, I really liked it. I was surprised by that by her character. So, yes, I would say that that would make her a good date for somebody.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

I love it. Um, speaking of going on dates with people, we have Jack's. Um look how excited she gets.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

I love it. Kicking her heels up in the air. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. The fact that you literally put date therapy and 911 all on this. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

I have reasons, and I'm gonna read word for word my reasons. Okay, let's hear it. Let's be cut out your reasons. Um he literally cannot touch people without killing them. He's running along con and his feelings for Tella are so great that they scare even him. Yeah, we we want him, I want him to have him a redemption have a redemption arc so bad. So call 911 if his eyes get icy. But other than that, I think some with some therapy, he'd be a grade A partner. He'll literally be your partner till death do you part, even if he might be the reason you die. So that's why he gets to be small details, small details you gotta live life.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

It's that you die, but it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Like it might not even be from a kiss. Jess would be like, yes, please, let's go. It might not even be from a kiss, it might be because he's trying to choke you out. Um with his magical powers to prove a point to someone else so that he gets his powers back. But you never know. You never know, it's a wild ride. I'm not this isn't a normal case. Um I wouldn't normally say date on therapy and nothing.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

She'd be called T Swift and say, Daddy, I love him. But Daddy, I love him. That's what I'm hearing from Jess right now. Yes. Jax is the exception for her. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

This might be a once-in-a-lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Oh man. Maybe not. That is me. But I will say in this series, yes, I would disagree. I think therapy and 911 are more appropriate, especially. I can't get it out of my head when he's like, you know, you won't die yet, but you will die. And he's like, but I'm okay with that if it means I get my powers back.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Red flag, you know? But I think okay, yeah, I hear you. If you take it for face value, absolutely. But in my head, um, and I know. In my head, he's saying it. I can stop laughing. He's saying it because he's trying to guard himself because he's a fate. He's never fully experienced love. He doesn't know what the heck to do with love. He's afraid that if he does end up loving her, that then he'll become human and he won't be able to stay a fate. So he has to guard himself so that he doesn't become a human.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Even though his heart did start beating, which they're not supposed to. So yeah, I hear you.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Exactly. So I think that it was really like he was putting on a show, he was putting up those walls. And buddy, if you break down those walls, he'll be a okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I hear you. I disagree, but I hear you. I hear you. Dante.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Caitlin said we need to move her on from Jax.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I think she's if you love Jax, you're gonna love What's Upon a Broken Heart. I'll just tell you that. Leave it there.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

She's concerned for mental stability right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Um, I disunderstand why you love Jax.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

I love him too, but for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Speaking of mental instability, legend, Dante, Dante! Date him in therapy. He built an entire magical empire out of something deeply personal and painful. Yeah, he needs someone to sit with him before he can be ready to be a partner, but he's still fabulous, you know? Haunted King behavior, but let's be real, I date him. We love a mystery, we love a mysterious, yet caring man, and that's definitely that man.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

I put as a note for a legend in Dante that I'm a sucker for a powerful dude in a horrid backstory. My money's unlegend, my guy.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

It's like us.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

It's true though. I am a sucker for like a a Margoli Grey character who is mysterious, has a backstory, but a lot of power. I don't know what it is about all that combination. It's probably why I liked certain series like Fourth Wing.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Because we have emotional trauma.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, I can appreciate an emotional traumatic background. Okay, I just like it, and it makes me feel for you. I'm right there with you, girl. Absolutely. But yes, I agree. He definitely needs therapy. But would we date him? Absolutely, 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

100%.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

I will say though, it was heartbreaking reading the scene where you think you're getting the real Dante, and then the second he walks away from the temple. Yeah. I was like, Oh Tella. Like, my heart broke for her. I was like, I genuinely thought he would stay. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

I really was just hoping and praying that there would be like a good reason. Right. Like that. He would just come back in five minutes and be like, sorry, I had to go take care of Jack. So like some I know I just went from loving him to saying he's dead. Leave me alone. Um, but like that's what I was hoping. And he's just like, let me go take care of this. I'll be right back. I can't tell you. There's not enough time to explain. Yeah, that was my hope too. And then he didn't. And then he spoiler alert. He just sent a letter. I'm sorry, sir.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

I will say it was really satisfying in the next book when he gives a reason why. Yeah. But is it the reason I wanted? No. But it was a reason. So we'll talk about that then. So good.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Next up. How about our favorite quotes? You can tell it's our favorite section. Yes. Your turn. All right. Um, I had a couple, I had a good amount of quotes. Yes, and they were all good. I loved them.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I'm so glad because I legitimately was writing these quotes and I was like, here's another one.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Another one, it was an honorable. That's why I only have two because I'm like, you got a lot of the good ones. So I'm just gonna let you take them. You know?

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Sorry. No, it's okay. It's good. Um, all right. So one of the first ones I have here is magic always has a price, and it's usually paid by someone who didn't agree to the cost. And that's truly just a theme across this whole series. Yes, I agree. And it hits differently once you know what legend gave up and what Tela's deal is actually costing, right? Like, you know that there's a little bit of cost here and there, like, oh no, I lost a day of my life.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

But when you see, like she says casual when you read that C to Carabal, you're like, this girl, I you're literally dying for a day, but it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, but she didn't know that. She was just at the end of her life. Yeah. And I mean, it's not one day. Uh so that's one reason why I just I love that quote because it's really just it sums up the book series too.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

It does, yeah. And I just like that it makes a point to say that like you can pay a price for magic if you want magic, but you may not always agree to the cost because it may not be someone who wants to pay it.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

So and or like watch yourself because it might not be you that's paying the price. Right. So it makes you just like hopefully hesitate before saying, Yes, give me magic. That's good. So my next up is um she'd spent her whole life running towards fire because she just never expected the fire to want her back. Tella. Uh-huh. Me too, girl. Um, so that in my opinion is Tella's arc in one sentence.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

It really is. Yeah. It's about desire that feels dangerous and whenever and whether that makes it wrong or just terrifying, right? Like, is do I love this enough? Like, if I love this, like is this actually good or is this going to break me? Or this is going to break me if I have it, or break me if I don't, right? So which evil, necessary evil, am I gonna choose in that? Right. And I don't know. So good. There's just something about that quote that I was like, ooh, baby. Ooh, baby.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

It reminds me of a quote I actually didn't keep or I didn't put on here. Um I know, I'm surprised actually, and maybe I just overlooked it when I was making my notes on here, but I'll pull it up really quick because I do think it needs to be mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

You pull that up.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Um so yeah, I can't find it, but the quote said something along the lines of like uh falling for him felt like falling for darkness or something like that. It's scary at first, but then when the stars come out, it's beautiful. And maybe that was even Carabelle Scarlett talking about Julian. But I that's what it reminds me of because Stella herself is like we we keep saying she's this chaotic character, um, but there's a reason for it. Like she's so so scared of love. She's so so scared of it. And she thought because of these decks of destiny that she pulled out from her mother's thing that she was never gonna have love because she pulled a card of unrequired love, so she never even sought it in her life. Um, so but she kept she would allow herself though for desire and she'd run after it, right? And she had she's like, I'm not gonna deny myself of all these experiences. But that's what that quote always reminds me of her in legend. So maybe I misplaced that, and you got you can tell you guys can tell me if I'm wrong. But the fact that like she felt like she was falling in love with darkness, but it's beautiful at the same time. I loved that.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

So give me that.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I didn't put it on here, so clearly I don't know where it is, but it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

It's fun. How about one of your quotes? Break up all my 50,000 quotes on this one. By 50,000, I just mean four.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

All right, my first one is she wasn't afraid of danger, though she preferred it in the form of a swaggering young man.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Amen. And I just put, don't we all girl?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Caitlin literally took a picture of that one and sent it to me, and I was like, Yes, girl, yes, yes, girl, yes, but it was comments like this in Stella or in Tella's POV that I was like, this is just she would say this. I love it so much. But seriously, that don't we all don't we all love danger in the form of swaggering?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

I don't know what it says about me, that that's what you think I would say, but I also love that that is what I would say.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Uh but it's your it's lines like that though that pull you in because they're so relatable and hilarious at the same time. Tella's a funniest character to be in her POV.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Uh yes, I love it. Yours is next. Yes, mean. Okay. Jack smiled as if he already won, and maybe he had. The worst part was she couldn't tell if that was a threat or a promise.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Little baby. That sums up Jack's Jack's experience completely. It does.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

You never you can never tell. You the laugh says it all. It's why he's so unhinged yet compelling, all at the same time. Yep. And we love it.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

And we love it. We love him for it. Yeah. He's addicting. But he what I like about this line is that it just also sums up Stephanie's writing. Like, she pulls you in with Jax, even though you don't we're not really supposed to like him. It's like, is it a threat or is it a promise? I don't know. I'm kind of intrigued.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I like him. Yep, there it is.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Um, and then I also had, I don't even remember exactly where this was in the book, but I remembered it and I was like, this this needs an honorable mention. Honorable mention. Um, so this is she liked the thrill that came with taking risks. She loved the feeling of doing something bold enough to make her future hold its breath. Yeah. I want to live by that quote. Like, I read that and legitimately was like, put that on a pillow.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Um it's gonna be her new phrase moving forward, friends.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Hold on to your seatbelts. Embroider that and put it on a pillow, okay? Um like I just want to I want to always remember that and be reminded of that in it because I I it's maybe it's why you think I'm telling like you relating me to do. Yeah, because I was thinking about it earlier this week and I was talking to some I I thought about it because someone said I'm chaotic, and it's true, and I say that I'm chaotic, yeah, but I was just sitting with it and I was like, but I'm not like I don't appreciate that. Um like I'm chaotic, but I'm chaotic with a purpose, and or I'm chaotic, I seem chaotic because I'm curious. Yeah, I seem chaotic because I say yes to more things than what most people would. That's true, and I'll say yes to a situation that might be like, what are you doing? But I'm like, I trust it.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

This feels right, and that's tell it to a tease, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Exactly. So when I read that, I was just like, Yes, it just something in me. Like I adored it because she's done things that most people wouldn't. She is willing to do whatever. I mean, the first time I went on a plane, I was three weeks in a different country with a bunch of people I didn't know. And then one week of that was living in a hut on an island with power one hour a day. Yeah. What more what more can I say about myself? Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

It's a pretty good picture, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah. Um, let's remember I was only 16. Right? You're yeah. I've always been like this. Yes. And I feel like Tella's always been like that. I think she has to be. She has too.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

She has a similar quote, not the same meaning in that I've quoted for next book, too. So we'll talk about that more. But I agree. And I think I love again the way Stephanie writes in this because she loved the feeling of doing something bold enough to make her future hold its breath. Almost like the future is its own identity. That's like, oh no, we had a plan, but what's she gonna do now? And I really like that because that says a lot about her character. She's very bold and willing to do what she needs to, and I think that doesn't it does encompass you a lot, which is good.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Oh my gosh, thank you. You're welcome. So honored.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Um, and then my last quote was a little more sad, so sorry, but I liked it. It said, Unfortunately, Tella wasn't the sort of girl people saved. She was the way, she was the one they left behind, but she was also the sort to be that they underestimated. And I liked this point because it's almost a point where Tella was like, you know what, you can look over me, that's fine, but I you can underestimate me, but I'm gonna use that to my advantage. Exactly. And I again, we've talked about this before on the podcast, but just that like there's so much power in people underestimating you that you can use to your advantage. And I love that she's like, Okay, fine, you don't want to save me? That's fine. I will show you up. And I put on here too, the way my heart felt simultaneously broken for Tella, but also seen too, because I feel like as someone who is more of a quiet personality, people underestimate me a lot. Um, and it's really funny when people hear my backstory and hear my story, yes, and they're always like, Whoa, I had no idea. And I'm like, Yeah, because I don't need to overplay it, I don't need to uh live in the past, I don't need to prove a point. I know who I am, I know my strengths, and I love that Tella is kind of silently saying that because this is in her own head and in her own POV, and it's like, yeah, girl, you get it.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah, oh, 100%. And I think also like on the flip side, I felt it deeply, but almost somewhat the opposite, but also the same because people think, oh, she's she does all these things, she does this, she does that. Like, just like Tella, she's she does all these things, she's chaotic, she's just being, she's just choosing life, da-da-da. But then you hear their story and you're like, holy crap, I didn't know there's like no way people would realize what she'd been through with her father and her sister, right? And so from kind of kind of the flip side, but also kind of not, like, I I understand what you meant by like feeling seen in that um being underestimated. Yeah. Of like, hmm, if you listen to like one year of our childhood, you'd be like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Exactly. All right. So why do we like this bookslash series?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

What sets this apart?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

She has her cheerleading arms and I love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Mind you, I was never a cheerleader. I was. And I wasn't. Yet people think I was the cheerleader.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

I know, because you're definitely more outgoing than I am, but it's fine. For that's true. I mean, point in case she's doing a podcast right now. I'm on now.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Uh hear my voice. Here we are.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

I love to hear your voice.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Oh, how sweet. I'll take that, put that in my heart.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

You should take it away.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Do it for a many day. Put it in my pocket. Anyway, moving on. I got a fucking pocket. You guys get two songs today. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Um about the book. Anyway. What sets us apart, in my opinion, is that the point of view switches to Tella. Like when it switched, I think that was genius. I think it was too. Like that really just pulled you in. You like from the first book, you just see it completely differently because you're literally in a different point of view. In a completely different character. Exactly. And I feel like Garber respects the reader enough to trust that we'll catch what she's doing in that.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

And I just I loved it too because I think it's hard to switch perspectives from a third person point of view. It's it's even harder from a first person point of view, but to keep the reader engaged, especially when you were only in one POV for the whole first book. Yes. And the two characters are very different, like they're not at all the same. And so I really liked it because she pulls you in immediately again. Like that's just who she is as a writer. She does such a good job, and you you're along for the ride, even though it's a little bit of a different vibe because the character is a similar enough setting to keep you engaged. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

If you loved Carabel, you will love these next two books. Like it's just it's a non-negotiable given. Um, and it's kind of, in my opinion, it's like that with any of Stephanie's books. If you liked one, you'll like them all because she manages to keep her writing style the same across the board, but in different capacities. But it's fresh. Yeah, it's it's she does such a good job of keeping it fresh. Absolutely. And all the different worlds are, I mean, other than like these two series kind of being connected, but like the um The Alchemy of Secrets, when I read that, I could not put it down. And it is a world that you've never like, I haven't read any books that are even similar to it.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

I agree. Well, even though like Once Upon a Broken Heart is related to the series, it itself even felt different compared to Caravelle because there's only a couple characters that you really know related to, but even that they're in a different place, a different setting, and you're in a different person's POV. Like everything about it felt fresh and different, even though the magic's related. And so that's what's so impressive about her. She even took a spinoff and made it its own series. Like a lot of people have read that series, but haven't read Caravelle. And so she can do writing these series, even though you read them separately and still keep them like in their own little world, which is impressive. But what I loved about Alchemy of Secrets is that she again took a whole new world. A whole new world and literally just takes you for another ride. She pulls you in, but it's so eerie and it's so uh mysterious, and you don't know what's happening even towards the end. 10 out of 10, Stephanie. If we haven't talked about her enough, she is such a good author. Give her a shot.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Absolutely. If you're a fan of Morley Gray, love interest, and mythology woven into fantasy, legendary definitely levels everything up. It does. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

They get so the world building gets so much bigger with the fates, and you get more details into that. And as even with legend and his magic and how it works, um, and and how Caraval works and his backstory gets so much bigger and more depth. And so she has a good job of building off of each other because it's hard with this type of magic, it being so simple yet complex with how it's interwoven with witches and fates and legend because they're different types of characters, exactly, but yet they all seamlessly connect. So she does a good job with that. Um, and that what I s uh what I kind of piggybacked off of from earlier, but she does a good job of continuing the fast-paced world building and does it so effortlessly that you don't even realize that you're at the end of the book until it comes. And so I just think she does such a good job of keeping you engaged the whole time. I bet.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Should you read the next one? Yes. Absolutely. Go to that finale, read it, rate it.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Uh, if you haven't noticed by now, we're a different type of weird, but we love it. Um, finale is really, in my like, not in my opinion, it literally is the finale. It's where everything comes together. It's titled well. What can I yeah? Good job. Um, as you put it, they're all wrapped in a little bow. All your little strings that you're trying to figure out are wrapped in a bow, which Caitlin adores.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

I love it. I really do. When authors tie things in nice little bows, it makes me happy. If there's anything that you're still questioning, I do think you get more answers to those questions in Once Upon a Broken Heart.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

So Yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

That's probably why it felt very finished for me since I already read Once Upon a Broken Heart.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yes, I would agree with that completely since we read it like that. And Stephanie, I'm just uh gonna tell you this.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

If you're listening, Caitlin's looking at me like what she's doing. What is about to happen?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Um, if you want to like do a spin-off of each fate, I would absolutely read that because while we do get good information at the fates, I want to know more.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

She needs more information on the murdered king and the uh the assassin. The assassin and the um gosh, who was the assassin with it? The unwed queen. Not the unwed bride, because that she's in Once Upon a Broken Heart.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

She's the queen of something.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

She was a queen. She was a queen. She's a fate. Here we are. That one, Stephanie. She needs more information on that one.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

I I do.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

But you know, since I can't have that, we'll just finish this and we'll go to the next book. Yeah, that sounds like a good deal. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Moving on to legendary. Just kidding. Finale. It's a legendary finale. If you want a whiplash, read these books because that's what it feels like. So true. Uh finale, I feel like, was a really great conclusion to the series just because it does, she does the same thing in the rest of the series where she keeps you engaged the whole time. The plot gets more complicated. There are more problems to solve, I guess, or better for lack of a better um phrase. And it goes back and forth between Scarlett and Tella and their POBs. And I loved that because you didn't think Stella, or not Tella, Scarlett had more character growth that she needed, but she did. And you learned a little bit of that in the background of legendary, but you get more up close and personal with it in the third book. Um, but what I liked about Neat Little Bows is just this idea that like there's so much going on, literally up until like the last 50 pages. But then every conflict really does get finished, it feels finished, and that's what's nice. So if you feel like you need more, she does write a novella called Spectacular that I didn't read. I don't know if you read it or not. I haven't gotten there yet. But it it does go back to the main couple characters that you love, so you can kind of spend some time with them. You can read more about Stella, Scarlet and Hello. Stella. I'm actually kind of here for that. That's fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

I think I'm getting slap happy.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Yeah, me too. But I'm here for it. So anyway, I like that about it. She does a really good job. It's hard when the uh the plot gets so complex to tie things up really nicely, and she does a good job with that. So to short and sweeten the plot summary. Do you under the honors?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Both sisters both love stories. The fates are free. Someone is going to die, and Stephanie Garber collected every seed she planted across two books and denotated them for us. Let's talk about it. All right, our plot summary this time. Finale brings Stella, Scarlet, and Stella together.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

I like that you're shipping them with a name.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

They're sisters. Casual. They literally put it like that together. Okay. What do you mean? They're a pack of recording. Stella.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

This is actually my brain all the time. You just hear it now. I'm here for it. Let's do it. Oh, Lanta. I'm so glad. Uh, so for this final act, uh, for the final act, both point of views, both love stories are running parallel as the fates wreak havoc on the world. Because they're let free. We love it. Um the We don't actually love it. No, we do not. Uh the Fates are no longer trapped in their cards. They're out, they're dangerous, and Jax is the center of a prophecy that has Tella's name all over it. Wow, wow, wow. Uh we love to see it. We do love to see it. Meanwhile, Scarlett is fighting for her relationship with Julian, which you would never think would happen before. Right, but here we are. And they're so solid. So the fact that that happens is just heartwracking. Um, will it stay that way? Will it not? Who knows? Um, and for a world that isn't consumed by legends, ambition, or the fate's cruelty, that's really what Scarlett and Julian are just fighting for their lives, literally. Yeah. For the entire book. Uh, but what's really cool is in this book, everything does get paid off. The deals, the secrets, the long cons. The ending is genuinely earned. So bring your snacks, bring your tissues, and clear your afternoon. Honestly, that was well timed.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

We didn't even plan that. Half the stuff we do is not planned. Look at us, go. Just mind you that. But seriously, I do agree that the ending was definitely earned. These characters go through it. Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Just a little bit. They might almost die a few times.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

We might almost die a few times. Or actually die. But I will say, I was real, I really liked the way she tied in different parts of the magic here. I wasn't expecting her to bring in like there are fated objects that are tied into the plot. There are different other fates that are tied into the plot, and they weren't even like main characters, but they there's little subtleties that wove this plot along really well. And it didn't feel sloppy. It didn't feel like, oh, I have a clot hole that needs fixed. It felt interwoven, which was really, really cool. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Those are also the ones I want to know more about. Like the poison.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Was poison infatuated, or did he genuinely just want to help? We don't know. It's what I want to know. And our first main character breakdown is Scarlet. Are we surprised? No. So, like we said, this book goes back and forth between Scarlet's POV and Tella's POV. So Scarlett is now fully herself, protective, willing to fight for what she wants. Good. Character arc. We love that. She claps. Her arc from Book One. Yeah, you can't see it, but there it is. Ums in YA fantasy, which I would I would honestly agree with. That she walked in terrified and then walks out ready to burn the world down for the people she loves. And that's honestly impressive from someone who was so timid. Timid, but also what's the word? Anxious, I think. Um, because of what she went through with her dad, she was so uh hesitant because she was just scared of punishment, I think. You know, like she didn't want Tella to be punished for her own actions, she didn't want Julian to suffer for her desire of him, right? But now we see she's like, no, I'm gonna take what I want, and people can burn for all I care. And I love that for her. It was very satisfying for someone like me who also struggles with that. So I get it, yeah. It was 100%. But I agree, it was a quiet growth, but it was a much needed growth because it was a little bit in the background in book two, because it was mostly in P uh Telus POV.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah, and then we really like with the third book flip flopping back and forth, we really get to experience it. Um, which I think is really needed, especially because in the second book, Scarlet just kind of becomes a side character almost a little while.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah, I almost thought that maybe because the game was becoming real that she was gonna be part of the plot somehow, and I was grateful she wasn't, but I like yeah, yeah, that kind of got that vibe, but yeah, because she was that in the background because you don't really see much for it. But I guess in book one, you don't see much of Tella either. She's talked about a lot, but she's not really in the forefront. So it was kind of it kind of made sense to kind of give them each their own character or book and then like go back and forth for the last book.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yeah, no, I really appreciated that. Speaking of going back and forth, Tella is our next character. She is still chaotic, but don't worry. Now she's carrying the weight of a prophecy she didn't ask for. Good for her. Casual, normal Tuesday things. Imagine having to go to work with this all going on.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

Oh my gosh, like that's why I'm like, it makes more sense for it to be a fantasy novel where you don't have to worry.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

You know, you know, I might choose the fantasy novel. Yes. Uh in this book, Tela gets her most vulnerable moments and finale, and they really hit it. Yeah, they're not. The bravado is still there, but we can see exactly what it's been protecting in this one.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

It's a little more laid bare for her. It's like Scarlett has reached her arc, so she's kind of learning to step into that, but Tela's like very vulnerable, reaching that point of her arc. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I agree. And she's still deciding what to be vulnerable on and who to be vulnerable with.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Yeah. She kind of gets that mixed up sometimes, but that's okay. Speaking of Jax. Speaking of Jax.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

He's the fate that keeps showing up, whether he's wanted to or not, led by his obsession for our girl Tella. I feel like his final arc. We just we cannot. She's like, let's take a moment. I literally can't see it, but she's like shaking her head. I literally wrote word for word. We cannot. There are no words. There are no words. Read it. No pain. Yes. And that sums me up for that.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

And I'm a little bit disappointed he didn't put Dante slash legend on this list, but it's fine. I I definitely meant to. So let's just do a quick recap of Dante then. Roll slash vibe. Give it your best shot. Uh honestly, Dante was a little bit more in the background. He was back and forth, but I think a big part of that is because Tella didn't know if she could trust him. After what happened at the end of Legendary when he left her at the temple, she didn't see him after that. And so she didn't know if she could trust him. I think because of that, he was kind of sometimes there, sometimes not. He's trying to get back in the picture, trying to prove to her, trying to convince her to become immortal. Yeah. Um, but we don't learn till later why that is, and it's because he doesn't he realized he was falling in love with Tella. Shocker, I know. But before his character, that means that he would become human again and no longer be immortal. And so his solution to that on his side was like, Oh, I'll just make Tella immortal and then problem solved. Absolutely. And so there some of my favorite lines from Tella are from her interactions with um legend for this very reason of like learning what love is, what it means. It's not a vulnerability, it's not a problem, it's not something to be absolutely um, what's the word, analyzed or avoided. And so I was really proud of her character arc in those moments because she wants Legend, she wants him as like her man. And she's fighting that for the rest of this book. But the way that she doesn't give in and she stands on her ground of like, no, I want to be loved and I deserve to be loved. I was really proud of her for that because someone as handsome as Legend could be hard to resist.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Amen. But also, like with Legend, he has a whole character arc just in understanding love, right? Because I think like part of why it wasn't just fear of being coming human, that definitely was part of it. But also in his mind, he's immortal, he can't feel love. Yeah, um, because immortals can't love. Right. So he's like, Well, this must not be love, this must be obsession, and yeah, the way I can keep her forever, because it's an obsession, is just make her immortal, right? Um, as well. So it's it's both he it doesn't want to become human, but also he doesn't understand his emotions. Yes, and he you see that full arc of like Well, and I kind of got the idea.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Sorry, not to cut you off. Please keep going.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

No, please go.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

But I also got the idea that like there's like an insinuation underneath that's not directly quoted, but I got the vibe that fates aren't the same as legend, like they they were created at different times by the same witch, so they're both immortal and both have powers, but they're different things, and so while he can be immortal, he still has that ability to become human through love, but he sees it as a fate, as like, oh, that means I'm incapable of this, and it only happens rarely or never.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

And but he's not the same type of being, and so I got the vibe that it was like, this is not a fatal flaw for you, but you're choosing to see it that way because you don't understand how the magic inside of you works. So, yes, he's gonna become human, he's choosing to give up immortality, but I agree with you, like he doesn't understand what love is, and he's choosing but even Tella from her point of view is like, no, you know what love is, you love Julian, it's just not the same type of love, and so like she is starting to understand though he does love her, but he's wrestling with what that means. So I liked that about his character arc as well. Of like he has his own role um in the story, but also he has his own arc, so it's good. Absolutely speaking of arcs, emotional damage scale. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Oh goodness. All right, so emotional damage scale for me. For me, it was an eight. Yeah, and uh, we all know why Jax uh everything about everything about Jax in the final act, it is heartbreaking out the choice that he makes, the cost of it, my heart ached and aches for that man, that fate, that immortal.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Never thought about it. So think of it this way, Jess. If his story didn't end this way, you wouldn't have gotten Once Upon a Broken Heart series.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

Maybe it would have just been different.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Maybe, maybe, or you wouldn't have gotten it.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

But then maybe I would have gotten more of legend.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Maybe we'd just switch. It would have just switched to Patrols. Yeah, patrols. See, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Either way, what we would have been happy, so yeah, there's that. Ugh Jax um, but also what was surprising with this book, at least in my opinion, was that it was just so it snuck up on you. Yeah, it was so satisfying how Scarlett and Julianne's resolution, what they're what it actually was. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

I wasn't expecting it to feel so satisfying because it felt like a what's the word, a trivial conflict that was drug out between books, but then you watch their interactions and see on page her thoughts and her emotions that needed to she needed to step into in regards to their relationship. And I was like, Oh, that actually really is really satisfying for your character arc.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Absolutely, and also can we like take a pause and recognize that she's only known the man for like two months? Yeah, like like let's just really pa hit a pause on that, right? Um, and one of those months he was lying to her for a whole week, yeah. So, I mean, I'd be a little unsteady and debating too. Right. I say that, would I? No, I don't know. Um, you know, I dive in head first to things. You do, so maybe not, but it was just so satisfying, like seeing that whole arc because we were so focused on Tella and Jax and Tella and Legend. Um that's their pay that their win really just snuck up on you. It wrecked us quietly.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

I will also say with Jax and his final act, I really did feel for him, especially um this scene where Tella comes to him at his, I don't even know if it's really a house, but like his game of cards gambling center. I don't know how to explain that. But when she asks for their um wedding, their marriage to be broken, the blood bond between them to be broken. Oh and when he sits in the chair, and I forget exactly the language that Stephanie uses in that scene, but she said that he didn't look um what's the word you could tell he was trying to put on a persona of trying to be hard and cold and indifferent, but there was a sullenness about him, a depressing feeling part about him. That I was like, Oh, you really wanted this. I felt bad for him in that moment because you learn later in his story that there's more to that than he really reveals, but like you don't really see it except for in hints like that that she gives about how sad he is to see her go.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

And he's just trying to put on a brave face, and he did it a little too well for me.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

So I felt bad for him. I did, I did, and he had a good arc in that sense of later on in this in his other series, so yes, but yeah, I agree, and I liked how you put it for like did you ugly cry? Mentally, yes, physically, no. The scene in the cards, the ending, the ebble lock. Stephanie Garber owes. She owes us emotional damages.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Yes, I agree. Seeing Caitlin's reactions real time to the things I've randomly written um when we aren't together uh in our shared document always brings me joy.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

It's so fun. I just love it. I do so glad. So fun. That's why we do this together.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

All right.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Date them or 911. Woop whoop. I guess it would actually be wee wee ooh. There you go. Your sound effect.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

You're welcome. What can I say except you're welcome? Uh for Scarlet. So, dater. Dater, she's come so far. She's come so far. She fought for her own happiness. She stopped shrinking, she's protected the people she loved, she is grown, she has earned it, and she is dateable.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

She is available. Just kidding. She's with Julian, but I loved that scene at the end. It's so small, but it's like full circle moment with the gloves. It was so small.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

I haven't even asked the answer. It's yes. Oh, the entire time when they brought the gloves out and she kept commenting on the stitching. I was over there like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, Julian did it. Julian did it. Julian. Julian's so pretty.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

And you can tell that he was nervous. It was so cute. Oh my gosh. I saw that scene full well in my head. It was so satisfying. So cute. I it brings me joy thinking about it. I just finished this book yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

I know. So this is real raw for me. Just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Yeah, I finished it a week ago because I've been reading another book. But it's still so satisfying.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Yeah, that's why Caitlin's like, hmm, emotions?

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Me over here, like, um, Jack, Jax. We can reread one's pun and broken heart. Okay. Speaking of jacks. Um and Jacks, you put therapy, but not date and not 911.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

So I kind of disagree with myself.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

She's rereading and doubting her decision.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

I am doubting my decision. I'm gonna uh date. It's date and therapy. I've removed couples therapy. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

That brought the biggest smile.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

She's like, you get me. You get me to my core. You know me, you see me, and you accept me. You are welcome. Oh, goodness.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

I mean, I'm not calling 911 on this video.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Honestly, at the end of this book, I wouldn't either. Respect.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we got here. She's surprised. We love that. Because yeah, he's still a fate, but I really think that he uh is reachable now. Yeah because he's experienced all these things. He's literally had his love ripped from him, his love of his life stabbed him in the heart after finding out that he secretly made them married. Like, oh my gosh. What a character arc, right? Um we've come so far. We have. And you know, he's still a fate and he's still unhinged, but there's something real now. And he knows what real feels like, and he knows his little heart can be.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

I know. And I will say that part of me kind of wishes we read this first because of the fact it makes the other series feel a little bit more um, I don't know, deeper. Like for Jack's already loved him, but like that makes me just be like, oh, you get your yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

But anyway, I would still say call a professional. Um yes, he's got some stuff he's got at work. At least like just have him in your contacts, maybe a couple sections here and there. Yeah, maybe not every day before, maybe every day, maybe like bi-weekly.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

I still wanted to know what the apple thing is about.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Yes, we never did.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

I thought we were gonna get answers about that, and then so we did not.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

No, he always has a dang apple, and you know what? I just realized I've had an apple every day for the last like two months. And you're channeling your energy.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

I'm wondering if it's subconscious now because we read about apples so much. We're gonna have to do a deep dive of the other series on deep dive, but we'll have to cover that series.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I really thought she was gonna say a deep dive on my psychology.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

So I'm really glad she's talking about books instead. How are you feeling, Jess? I have a lot of feelings. Clearly. How are you feeling, Caitlyn? A lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

Just not normal for me. Oh, I'm laughing so hard. My cheeks hurt. All right, character legend slash Dante. Verdict, date, and therapy. And I agreed with this 100%. I said, I love me a tattooed, powerful, big-hearted villain willing to give up everything for her. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm a sucker for that. Get him. Yeah. Dante legend, girl till I die.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

I love that you put that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

I did not expect her to speech in such bold terms of Dante girl till I die, but I am here for it. And I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

I did really like his character arc. And like, I so it was something um Jess said off the record when we're just texting, talking about this book. She's like, I felt like I needed more of a satisfying ending for this book. And honestly, fair because the this whole book, this whole series was summed summed up in no lie in like two chapters. So it feels very short to not have enough time with the characters. And I think there is a reason why she wrote Spectacular for that reason. Um, I probably will eventually read it, but it won't be today because it is a novella, so you could probably read it pretty quickly. Um, but I will say I agree with that. I think that there is so much conflict that you almost feel like you want to sit with these characters happiness for a little while, like see them enjoy that for a little bit. They've been through so much, they've been through it and they deserve it. So on to favorite quotes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

I really thought you meant they've been through it and they deserve to go through it. And I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

That's not what I meant. Sorry, it's not how I how I meant that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

That gives me a lot, but like I'm thinking. Whatever you want to say, you say it. Thank you. Speaking of saying it, appreciate it. Favorite quotes. Yes. Um, starting it off with some things are worth more than winning. Some things are worth everything. That's good. And I feel like this is the thesis of this entire trilogy. The game was never about winning. It was always about what are you willing to give up and what are you willing to fight for.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Yeah. Um it almost feels like that's one of the reasons why Legend kind of became his own version of a villain. And it talks about that throughout the series of how he became did become a villain. Like Julian even talks about like I need to give my brother another chance because he because he came that guy. It's like he didn't care who won, he just wanted to see how he could toy with them to get them to give something up. And that's almost worse. And but let's flip side that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Or was it to have them to see what they're willing to give up for someone they love? Like to get them to realize that they're willing to give it up for someone. Yeah. Because maybe Dante really wanted someone to give uh give it up for him so that he wasn't in this position. Yeah. Um, that's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

No, that's fair. Because we don't know what the other caravels have looked like. So we don't know if every dynamic was similar to this or not, and just you know, different games, different people. So maybe it really was just using people they loved against them. Yeah. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

Speaking of using things that they loved against them, the next quote. She had been afraid of so many things, but she was more afraid of who she would become if she stopped fighting for the things that mattered. Scarlett's whole argument. Yeah. Yeah. She spent three books learning this. And I feel like this is really like where it lands. Yeah. Um, and honestly, I feel like it's where it lands for every character. Yeah. If you really think about it. Because Tella finally had to look at everything, make these choices, and you know, give into I'm scared, but I'm gonna jump in with you. Yeah. It's a legend. Legend had to literally say, I will give up my immortality for you. Jax had to literally give up Jack's everything and run away. Yeah. After he literally I mean, he manipulated him his way into getting everything that he wanted, but he easily could have said that. Yeah. Like, yes, I know it says that the love broke the curse and everything, but I kind of wonder if Jax didn't give the full thing because he knew. I'm giving so much background to this character. I know. I'm not the one who wrote the book. Um, like if he knew like he would hate himself eventually for doing this, yeah. Um, and that it was really not her loving him. Because you see that already in like the reactions and the things that are going when he does manipulate her, that he he knows it's manipulation and not that she actually loves him. Yeah, so he gave that up and he ran away too. Like every character gave up something they did, they had to sacrifice something. That just really hits.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Yeah, and I just like that um the way this is worded. She had been afraid of so many things, but she was more afraid of who she would become if she stopped fighting for the things that mattered. I think that speaks deeply in in general to people who are who struggle with fear. Like I do. I don't struggle with fear in the terms of like people coming to get me at night. It's just like um fear of life life in general and stepping out into things. And I'm right there with you. And she learned that like things that mattered are worth fighting for. Not everything necessarily, but things that mattered. And so I liked it that way that that's worded, and for that reason I think that can speak deeply to the human soul.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Absolutely. I'm right there with you. And I also think it speaks to yes, picking and choosing, but also just starting.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Like you st you stop fighting your inner dialogue of all of the reasons why you can't. Yeah. And thinking that the world is against you, and you recognize, like, okay, the world is not against me. Let's just see what happens when I step out. And it's scary knowing, like, now I have to hold myself accountable.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

That that's worth it. Yeah. Because who knows? Like, instead of what could happen in a bad way, what could happen if it works? Right, exactly. And that's I feel like that quote really embodies that. It does.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Hit them with your best shot.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Hit them with your best shot. Dun dun him. Yeah, that's right. My first quote was um, but I don't want to feel differently. I want to feel love and it's every form. I used to be so scared of it, but now I think love is another type of magic. Jess is like, dang, you did hit me because your best shot right there.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

She threw a burrito.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:59

Oh my land! She threw a burrito. But no, I loved this because kind of like what you said earlier. I think, like I put in my notes, Telegirl has come so far. Um, and I also put that this is not me relating to this quote wholeheartedly, emoji with the sweat on its brow. But really, though, I think that um there's something really real about this idea of being afraid of love. I think love is something everyone strives for or wants desperately, right? And a lot for a lot of different reasons. I have, I believe we're created for that, created for that love. And I agree with that. We can talk about that in different ways and different forms. But um, I think that this is kind of embodies this idea that like she wants it, um, but she is not willing to sacrifice something. She's not willing to feel it in its what's the word, entirety superficial way. Because what this is between her and legend when she's talking to legend, she's like, I'm not willing to give up um someone actually loving me to feel a false form of that, especially from somebody I want love from so desperately. And I think that speaks to her character because she would have been more than willing just to be willy-nilly with it two books ago, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

And so I was like, good for her. That's like her character arc summed up, I think. But I also think there's something really beautiful about this idea of not settling for a f version of love that's superficial. I think we look at our culture and we're willing to settle so much for a fleeting feeling instead of striving for something that you know that you're worth, or even just settling for the easy love instead of sticking to your standards and holding out because you know that's not it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:36

Right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:37

Like it's not worth it, even if you want to believe it is for the moment. Yeah, and it also reminded me of a quote from one of my favorite childhood movies. Don't judge me. It's called Aquamarine, and uh it's Jojo. You remember Jojo? She was in that movie, and she was like, Absolutely, she's talking to uh whatever her name is, the the mermaid character, and she's the one mermaid's like, Why do people want love so much? And she's like, It's because it's the closest thing we have to magic, and that's why that's what this reminded me of. I was like, it's so true, it's like another type of magic, and I loved that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

Uh my little brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

She's like to my heart. Okay, but your version or your turn.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

All right. He would have given up everything, he almost did, and somehow that made it worse. Oh, Jax. This one's about Jax. If you didn't know, we won't elaborate. I just need you to read that and feel things. Okay, thank you. I feel like you can't if you can read that and not feel something.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:37

Let's chit-chat. Yeah, it is like a sad, like unsung hero moment for sure for Jax. I agree. Yeah, you're you there's almost like because I first of all, maybe this is why it was hard for me to read Jax in this series. I hate love triangles. My whole heart hate them. And I think part of it's because we all know who is gonna win in this situation. We all know who's probably most likely to be in game. Dante. 100%. Or she just goes off on her own because she doesn't want Jax. That's been made very clear from the very beginning. But I think like there's always like, okay, we know she wants someone else more. There's always something along those lines with that. Absolutely, and I hate that. So I'm like, just get it over with and just pick aside. So anyway. Oh, absolutely. But but he does have his own moments, and this is one of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

So and like with the pick aside thing, like she kind of did, but also Jax knows what she's picked, and he's choosing to do that, like he's choosing to continue to pursue it and try to persuade her. Yeah, and which is heartbreaking. Yeah, he's choosing to settle. Cool boy. We don't want him to settle. We don't want him to settle. Um, but we really see that there. I agree. Ugh, that quote.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:51

Poor boy. What's your next quote? This is my second and last one. I put, I used to love the idea of something being so tremendous that it was worth dying for, but I was wrong. I think most magnificent things are worth living for. In my notes, I put, dear goodness, Stephanie, make me cry and feel seen and why don't ya? And I'm just gonna throw this in there, no spoilers, but this gives me Ailen and Rowan vibes. If you know you know, but I really liked this because I think oftentimes we're asked if we're willing to die for something. And that does say a lot. It does, it does. But I think in terms of, for example, me being a mom who has to work through personal trauma in order to change the childhood my kids are gonna have. Um, there are things that are worth living for because that's not comfortable or comfy or fun, but like my kids are worth living for, and they're worth having like a different type of perspective, a different type of motherhood than I maybe I would have had. And so I loved this quote because it's so personally applicable for different things. And for me, personally, that's motherhood, and I loved that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:03

But I love that quote. She's just like, I'm in awe. Well, also, like we'll talk offline on some of it. Um, but I just I think it's incredible to read, and I I think it's so true because I think sometimes people think that if you're willing to die for it, then it must be everything to you. But the reality of it is it's the easy way out. Um, because everybody who's still here is left to deal with it. Right. Um with the aftermath. And if you're willing to live for it, it's saying, I'm willing to give up everything, I'm willing to give it my all. I'm willing to work through the hard things because you're worth it. Right. I'm gonna set myself aside, I'm gonna set my desire to just not be here in this and do it. Right. And that quote just it hits differently. It hits different.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

I agree, yeah. It's the it's the end part. Like, I think the most magnificent things are worth living for. I want to get that embroidered on a pillow. Put it on a pillow, put it on a pillow. So good. Okay, why we like this bookslash series?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Well, I think it sticks a landing. It's quite a legendary finale, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:23

Uh I think that just sums it up, ladies and gents. Everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

I need a moment. That was too money.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Every thread is uh sealed, it's wrapped in its bow, as you would put it. Every character has an ending, other than the ones that have run away and we don't understand, or the ones that we don't know enough about to know that they should have an ending or what their ending would be. But the feeling, the world feels complete uh in Carabel rather than abandoned.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

It does, yes. It does. I put the way Stephanie does such a good job of creating a big, gigantic mess of a conflict, because that's what it feels like about two thirds and you're like, how the heck is this gonna be resolved?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

I mean, even with the first book, you're like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

How are you gonna fix that? What is this gonna happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

And it's like that in every book, and she does such a good job of waiting into the literally last 50 pages to tie everything up, um, but somehow make it feel perfect. Love that. And I think for her writing style, she does a good job, again, of keeping you on the edge of your seat, and then you suddenly just stop and she's like, Oh, here's a nice little bow here and here and here and here. There might be some things that weren't explained. Like, for example, there are different types of backgrounds and stories you can tell with the fates, like you said earlier, like we could totally learn all day and like each have its own novella of what they are like and their background stories. But for the conflict and for the personal snarling at me, character arcs, they I feel like they kind of have their nice little bows, and I am the type of person that appreciates that because I think, especially with complex plots, there are other series that I really love that everything's kind of a nice little bow, even if you're like stunned to your core of like it's now over, what do I do with my life? But I like that there's a nice con a nice conflict resolution that you can rely on and know that the characters are living happily ever after in their own lives, whatever that means for them. Can we go to their world?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

I like that. I agree. I I hear you. Yes, yes. Um other thoughts, Jess? I don't think so on that matter. Would you recommend it to anybody? Anyone who has finished Legendary, I would recommend this to so that they can have closure. Or if they want to know more about Jax. I've really just taken him on. You have, and I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:51

I clearly we're gonna have to do what's upon a broken armor.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:55

I didn't realize how much I'd taken on Jax because I really do love Dante. I I don't know why in this day that I have chosen Jax to be my forerunner, but that's alright. It made for a fun ride. And now he's my personality, apparently. That's concerning. Um here for it. Yeah, anyone who wants just to have your little bows tied, quit having them loosey goosey um to read this one, as well as anyone who wants proof that a young adult fantasy can be genuinely literary. Uh, because I think a lot of times it's just it's very demure, not demure. Um, but it's simple language. Yeah, yeah, it might be a complex world, but it's simple language. Yeah. Whereas she does a very good job at elaborating to the extent that you're just like, dang, yeah, I'm in it, I'm here. She gives complexity.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

I also think young adult fantasy doesn't give enough credit because I think sometimes it's dismissed as young adults, you're like, oh well, it's probably gonna be boring, it's gonna be simplified, I don't need to read it. Yeah, but I don't I think that's kind of um not fair, at least for this specific series and once upon a broken heart. Because I think that they both have these very complex worlds, this very complex magic system, and very complex problems to be solved. And so I think I agree. It's just under underrated is like not even a good word for it. It's just overlooked.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:22

Um, and I think that's unfortunate for an author like Stephanie who's so good at drawing you in and using language that keeps you engaged.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:29

So I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

If we haven't sold her yet, please pick up one of her books at your local bookstore.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

Her worlds are too alive to stay on the shelf. We could be your own little commercial. Do you want us to be your marketers? We will hit us up.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:45

Hire us.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:46

Brandial. Just kidding. Can we read your next book before you release it?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:50

Would love that, honestly. I would kill for the sequel to Alchemy.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

I have to know what happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

After that beat seed, I'm questioning everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:02

I need to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:04

Anyway, her other works are Once Upon a Broken Heart, which again is a spin-off of this series. If you love Jax as much as Jesse did, you will love that series. He is highly incorporated. Hold out. Um, and then she also has another series that she just started. She released the first book last year, and it's called Alchemy of Secrets. If you've if you've listened to the past couple uh episodes of this podcast, you've heard us talk about it. We love it. It is such a cool, unique world. 10 out of 10 recommended. It's her first debut adult novel. So recommend that if you're more into adult series, it has the same vibe as her other books of pulling you in and taking you for a ride. So thanks for listening, friends. This has been Books Bruce and Banter, and I'm Kate. And I'm Jess. And we'll see you later.