Books, Brews & Banter Podcast

Once Upon a Broken Heart Episode 1

• Cait & Jess • Season 1 • Episode 4

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0:00 | 1:08:44

Welcome, friends to Once Upon a Broken heart. And, you’ve guessed it, Jacks is back — except now he’s the main event, and he’s dragged a girl named Evangeline into a deal she does NOT fully understand. We also cover book 2 in this series where the stakes go from bad to catastrophic, Jacks is acting like someone with something to lose, and Garber absolutely destroys us in the final act. Welcome to the spinoff era.



SPEAKER_02

Hello, bookworms. I'm Kate. And I'm Jess. And this is Books, Bruise, and Banter. If you're new here, hi. Hello. We love to talk about all things books-ish. And on today's episode, welcome friends to Once Upon a Broken Heart. Whoop whoop. And you've guessed it. Jax is back. Jess is hyped about it.

SPEAKER_01

We're so happy.

SPEAKER_02

Except now he's the main event. As he should be. And he's dragged a girl named Evangeline into a deal she does not fully understand. Welcome, friends, to the spinoff era.

SPEAKER_01

So on today's plot summary, Evelyn Fox is desperate to stop the boy she loves from marrying someone else. Sad, weepy face, kind of. If you're willing to marry someone else, move on, girlfriend. Um she makes a deal with Oh boy. So she makes a deal with Jack's. The Prince of Hearts, a fate who can kill anyone he kisses.

SPEAKER_02

Oh boy.

unknown

Sorry, continue.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, we're gonna be a little slap happy today, and I'm sorry. It's for I think it'll be make make for a fun ride, though. So it will. For sure. It's gonna be giggling a lot, and I'm sorry ahead of time. Continue.

SPEAKER_01

That's why they listen, right? Honestly, I hope so, because we do laugh a lot. True. If you're here for somber, it's not us. Zombie. So here's the sorry, continue. I just have interrupting you. So here's the deal. Uh for Jack's the deal with him and Evelyn was that three he gets to have three kisses on people of Jack's choosing in exchange for his help. Seems manageable, but it's not manageable. Not even close. Evelyn ends up at the royal court of Magnificent North, surrounded by secrets, political scheming, and a prince with a dangerous connection to an old prophecy. Ooh, we love a prophecy. At least I do. We love a prophecy. You're right. I'm here for it. This book is all set up in atmosphere. Stephanie Garber is world-building a brand new corner of this universe and a slow burn. We love that. I love a slow burn. I'm here for it. Always. Between Evelyn and Jax starts up here. So buckle up buttercup. Buckle up buttercup. That's small singing I'm doing today, friends.

SPEAKER_02

So sorry, and you're welcome. It's not.

SPEAKER_01

She'll keep singing. Don't you worry.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and we have for up first for our main character breakdown is Evangeline Fox. And that last name, Fox, will be carrying a lot of weight. So just keep in keep that in the back of your mind. Um, she is our new protagonist. She's a hopeless romantic or helpless romantic, who knows? Believes in love as a force of nature, and she's dangerously trusting. Honestly, there is another episode we recorded. Maybe you've already listened to it, I don't know. But where I said that there was another character who is a little bit naive when it comes to trusting other people, and this is her. I but I love her to death, don't get me wrong. She kind of gives you the vibe of like classic fairy tale princess, but she's not a princess, but like becomes a princess. Spoiler alert, I don't know. Um, but I will say that that's one of the things that really was hard for me as a character. You like slowly watch her trusting kind of deplinish over time. But um, Jess had a really good note here on Evangeline. She says how she's so different from both Scarlet and Tella from the Caravelle series that we just covered. And it's true, she's soft and she's hopeful and a world designed to punish that. And watching the world chip away to her optimism, like I said earlier, is genuinely uncomfortable. Um, and Jess means it as a compliment. I'm not sure I do, but that's fine. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01

Such is life sometimes, man.

SPEAKER_02

But she does see genuinely see the good in everyone, which is what makes her dynamic between Jack's and her so addicting. Like when I was reading this book, that's what kept me reading. I'm like, there's no way that you could actually see the good in this guy. Like, clearly, he's a fate. Clearly, he doesn't mean well. I see the good in him. Jess is already defensive. Buckle up, friends. But I I put, I was like, you're rooting for them, but also, girl, can you not see he's a little more bad boy than you signed up for? That's Evangeline in a nutshell. You know.

SPEAKER_01

Love is blind. All right. Like the TV show. I like reality at all. Both. And then you take off the glasses and you're like, oh, oh, oh. Sometimes. In bad luck. In good luck. Oh boy. Anyway. Time will tell what this actually ends up being. Here we go. So our next character is Bum Bottom Jax. How did we know? Because of my enthusiasm. I'm here for it. He is the Prince of Hearts, and he has mine. The face.

SPEAKER_02

Preach a girl. Preach. If you didn't know that from our Caravel series, clearly this is where it all started, friends. Just so we're aware.

SPEAKER_01

Surprise. I like Jax. Um he is a fate. He is morally great chaos, and we love it. Um, and he's obsessed with a prophecy involving a girl with rose gold hair. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Um could that be? How do you know that? Just so we know it is Evangeline. She is described as that. Continuum.

SPEAKER_01

True. She is correct.

SPEAKER_02

So I just realized I didn't really give like a character description of her. So yeah. Um rose gold hair. Cute little girl. I think she's like 18 in this, is she? I can't think so.

SPEAKER_01

She's like an broken heart. The usuch title of the book. Anyway, sorry. So Jax in the Caramel series was uh a bit of a 911 character. Uh he technically still could be here. However, there are cracks in that man's armor now.

unknown

There were before, too.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and we are staring at them directly. He's doing something with his feelings right now, and it's gonna destroy us. And I hope it destroys you. Wow. In a good way. Like in a book way. That did sound bad. I'm not gonna lie, I'm kind of here for it. It's kind of fun. So tell me when you read a book, you don't love the books the most that destroy you.

SPEAKER_02

That's fair. Yeah. If I had to recommend a book, it's usually one that I've at least cried over. Exactly. I'm vibe in with that.

SPEAKER_01

That's why you I want it to destroy you because it'll be your favorite. Like, I don't I don't know. Don't listen to me. Actually, do, but actually do, but it's fine. Please send out.

SPEAKER_02

I put a note here for Jax's character because uh Justin put in her notes that he's 911 in the Caravel series. But I put, wait, are we saying that he upgraded to a code orange instead of a code red? Heck yes, and we're here for it. Because honestly, this is the like uh we remember the end of Jax's story in Caravelle. He is, you know, heartbroken that you know Donatello was supposed to be his one true love, at least according to Pierce, because he's brokenhearted, according to the prophecy or whatever. So now we start off here, and it's like this is really the beginning of the end for him, but in a good way, hopefully, maybe possibly. So he hee hee.

SPEAKER_01

Alright, next up we have Apollo. He is the charming prince, love entrance to date adjacent. Not what he appears at all. Nope. Spoiler alert. Um Apollo seems like the obvious choice, and that is very obviously the point. Um, Garber is setting it up to misdirect you, and you can absolutely feel it. 100%. He's compelling anyway, which makes it everything even more complicated because you're just like, is he good? Is he bad? Is he good? Is he bad? Right. Will I end up liking him? Will I end up hate?

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Is he trying? Is he not? Is he trying to misdirect me? Right.

SPEAKER_02

Um, is he intentionally being this nice just to be mean later? Like it's just like what we did in Caravel. So it's a plate of chaos spaghetti. Yes, and I put that um the way that I was silently rooting for this guy until the end of this book in the mausoleum scene with Jax. If you know what I'm talking about, then you know. Um, that is will ever for have you like ever had me questioning like who I should be rooting for. And that was the reason. But I will say what I really liked about Apollo was like kind of what you said that he's like the classic charming prince. So you kind of want to root for him, which is probably why I was. But you could always tell in every scene with him that something's off. And so you're like, ah dang.

SPEAKER_01

Your gut and intuition, like, even though like logic in from the book says, like, oh yeah, good man, good friends. Love that. Great cheers. Yeah, like your gut the entire time though is like.

SPEAKER_02

Well, even if even if Angeline like wants to be with him, but she's like, Clearly, there's something off here. Yeah, yeah. So it's good. She writes it very well, but we're not surprised. We're a big fan of Stephanie, so for sure.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_02

I will say we didn't talk about I guess he's not really a main character, so that's fair. I was gonna say Luke, but he sets off the the premise of the story. Like he was he and Evangeline were together. Oh but he's not really a main character, he's really more of a side character, so that's fair. But he just sets off the premise of the book.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you wanna talk on him a little bit?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, just side, just side note that when you're opening up in this story, it's from Angeline's POV. The man who broke her heart. Yes, and something Stephanie does really good, which we'll talk does really well, which we'll talk about later on in this episode. Um, but she starts off in a new character's POV, which makes this whole uh trilogy feel very fresh and very new. Um, but because of that, she's setting up Evangeline's point of view, and part of what happened with Evangeline is that she was dating this guy named Luke. She desperately was in love with him. He decided to break her heart and uh go and get engaged to her sister, technically her stepsister.

SPEAKER_01

Brutal.

SPEAKER_02

Uh it is brutal. And so Evangeline, obviously heartbroken, doesn't understand that this is real and believes that something's happened to Luke. You'll find out later if that's true or not. Um, in order to break her heart. And so she goes to make a deal with Jax, like we said in the plot summary. So that's what is the premise of this book. That's what it opens up as. So he is kind of a side character, but he also is the reason this whole thing kind of set off in motion in the first place, because she wouldn't have met Jax if it wasn't for the fact that if it wasn't for another broken heart. Right. And I will say too, when we were reading Caravel, because we uh Jess and I read uh Once Upon a Broken Heart first, which is technically the spin-off series of Caravel. So really we should have read it after, but whatever. Oops. When I was reading Caravel, I was actually thinking book two or the beginning of book three of Caravel is when this starts taking place, which I thought was interesting because it talked about how, oh, there was something with this girl who made a deal with a fate and now like the whole wedding party is turned to stone. And I was like, oh yeah. Yeah, and that's the beginning of this book. So I was like, Oh, so it starts here. So it makes a lot more sense for Jax's uh character, I guess, and like why he doesn't really start to turn, I guess you could say, toward till towards the end of this first book. So anyway, continue.

SPEAKER_01

We love it, we love it. Speaking of love, emotional damage scale. Um why don't you start us off, Jess? Okay. Um, I had it listed as a solid eight. Um, the moment that hit the hardest, in my opinion, is when Evelyn realizes the full weight of the deal she made. Yeah. Um, because in the moment she's like, oh yeah, this is nothing. It's not a big deal. It'll be fine and pay the price. Yeah, and then she's like, Oh, I'm killing people. Oops, murder. Uh whoopsie. The funny thing is that it literally I wrote down on here, oh no. Um not in a dramatic reveal way, but in a quiet, sinking, oh no way. Right. Is how like it all just continues on in her head because she just she starts out so frilly about it.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. And then she's like, oh shoot. She's like, Yes, I'll do anything, and this very dramatic, like save them all, kind of in her head kind of way. And I made a note that said yes, and we label that impending doom. And Stephanie meant it because it's so true. Oh, absolutely. It's almost like she realized there's a moment where I forget how Stephanie worded it, but there's one where she realized that she's like, Oh crap, I'm killing people and I'm not okay with this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it it really was like that moment of like, I'll do anything for love. Right. And then she's like, I won't do anything for love. I shouldn't do anything for love as it goes on. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and what surprised me with it is that like how much you really care about Evelyn so fast, um, even though like she seems like just that hopeful little girl. Yeah, she does like you still do like deeply care immediately for her.

SPEAKER_02

Um it's almost like because she's so naive that makes your heart go, oh, like I kind of love that the fact that you're so naive, like this is gonna hurt you later on, but like you kind of want to help protect her. So it's like you kind of put her in your back pocket, like, I want to protect you.

SPEAKER_01

I really love your outlook on that. Um because I feel like when I read that, usually I'm sitting there like, you are naive, girl. Open your eyes a little bit. Like, you do want to protect them, but at the same time, I'm like, homie, it's obvious. Are you for real right now?

SPEAKER_02

Well, that was one of the reasons why, again, like when I was reading this book, it was really frustrating to read her in that con in that way. But I'm saying I think one of the reasons why I was connected to her, why she why she draws you in is because of that too. Like, you almost it's like you're looking at a little child. Yeah, like I kind of care for you. But I am I agree. She's older, so she should know better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's my thing. But like for me, Garber really gave her a specific flavor of stubborn hope. Um that is completely her own. Yeah, but honestly, like I guess it sounds contradictory to what I just said, but that part, the stubbornness, yes, and the stubborn, like, nah, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna make it work, I will come out on the other side, no matter what it is, how I come out, I'm coming out of it. Yeah, that's the part for me that I was like, all right, I get you, girl. Like, yeah, I get you, girl.

SPEAKER_02

All right, okay, so I'll say from my emotional damage scale, I'll actually give this a seven, maybe six point five. No, I think it'd be a solid seven. And the reason is because I do think you can kind of see, even this is the first series that we read from Zephanie Carver. Jess is glaring at me. It's fine. I'm not glaring, I'm looking, waiting, watching, trying to understand why I would give this anything less than eight. The reason is because when I read Jax, at least when I read it on my first go-around, I got the vibe from the very first scene with him and Evangeline that he is definitely a little more evil than he is good. And I again, I this is this is the first series we read from Stephanie Garber. So we didn't know anything about Jax going into this book. Jess and I didn't, so we didn't read Carabelle, and but I still got the vibe that he's a little more evil than he is good, and so I didn't I wasn't super surprised by the ending. Did it still wrench my heart out? Yes, which is why it's a seven. But for me, I wasn't entirely surprised, which is why I also gave it a seven and not a full eight or above.

SPEAKER_01

What does it say about me but that I noticed too? Yet I still love doing it.

SPEAKER_02

I know it's almost like you're here for the torture. What does that say?

SPEAKER_01

That sounds like trauma. But she's like, get away from me. Don't say that. You're not wrong. It is what it is. Did I ugly cry on this one? No, no, I did not. Um emotional, sure. Did I cry? No. Um, but that was when there was a moment with Jax near the end that made us all just sit still for a minute. He did something that looked like kindness, and we were not prepared for that for him while others weren't. But you know, it's fine looking at you, Kaelin. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02

I knew that I knew the second it happened something was off. I was like, I'm supposed to feel things, but I don't. There's two more books. There's no way.

SPEAKER_01

Meanwhile, I'm like, maybe it will have a pair.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe we'll maybe it's right here. I put kindness no way it had to be a trick, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway. All right. Our next section is datum or call 911.

SPEAKER_02

I love the fact that you put evangeline on this list. I don't know why I'm still surprised by that. Literally. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01

I'm dying. It's episode what, like five or six? I'm still surprised. Everyone since we've added this, Caitlin goes. You added them to that list? How interesting. I love that for us. You would think after 10 years I wouldn't shock her anymore. I know. Here we are. I do. And I love that. So speaking of Evelyn, she's our first character on Datum Recall 911. I'd agree on date. You put date and I agree with that. Yeah. She's loyal. She's brave in a way that's not flashy. She genuinely believes in people.

SPEAKER_02

She has hope.

SPEAKER_01

She has hope.

SPEAKER_02

She has Chess and I both like back when, way back when. Do you remember those days? Because I sure don't. Jokes, we kid, we kid, kind of. Are we though? I've already cry laughing.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry, friends. Oh, we love that. Um, but I mean, date her, but she's gonna get her heart broken repeatedly in this series, but we're gonna root for her anyways. Yeah, you gotta root for the brokenhearted.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I okay, so I think she's dateable simply because she is, she's loyal and she's brave and she genuinely believes in people. That makes a great partner. It really does. And if you're a date her right now, you're good. There's no trauma yet, except for you know, her parents passing. But besides that, it's like aw. Besides that, it's like she's a good partner. And Jack's honestly, Jess, I'm really impressed by you. You put call 911 instead of dater there.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not gonna lie, that was hard. But I was like, Because when I saw that, I was like, wait, wow, I'm proud of you. I was trying to get back to when I didn't know about him. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. When I truly didn't know about him, and it was just my gut being like, maybe there's character here. Maybe you can fix yourself. Maybe therapy will help you. Um and back when we had hope. Yeah, back when I had hope, um, I was like, maybe, maybe, maybe I would probably call 911, especially at first, because I I don't know if I would enter an arch and see someone crying and then eating an apple and be like, yeah, will you kiss me?

SPEAKER_02

Um well, especially when the first scene is him biting her wrist in order to uh start the bargain.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little bit. I would sure hope so. In my first interaction, bites my wrist and draws blood. I'm calling 9-1-1-1. I sure hope so.

SPEAKER_02

So I've been wondering, what's your emergency? He bit me. I think he might be kind of a vampire, but I'm not really sure. Um, yeah. That was also a twist in the series I didn't expect. Vampires being involved. But anyway, I'm not a big fan of vampire lore, but this one made it seem a little bit more magical. So that's what are they normally real? They're just weird and creepy. That's all they are normally. I've read other books of vampire lore, and I'm like, I'm not about this. Anyway, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, so call 911, because he made and plus, on top of that, um, on top of you know biting her and bleeding, making her bleed, yeah, for the first time meeting her, he made her kiss people without explaining the consequences, and he's running multiple agendas simultaneously, and the idea of him helping is kind of terrifying. Uh, in some ways, in other ways, it's like, wow, you really you'll really go all out, huh? So um, but thinking back then, it was terrifying, it should have been terrifying. Um, and not yet my best part, the best I was gonna say, the best part though is when you're like, and yet and yet. I literally put first and yet and then an all caps. And yet. The pipeline to therapy is visible from here. Okay, by the time you get to the end of the book, you'll agree with me.

SPEAKER_02

Just trust us, trust the process, trust Stephanie. She's brilliant with this book series, I tell you what.

SPEAKER_01

She really is.

SPEAKER_02

All right, and of course, Apollo. So this and this book, he gets therapy. Oh, Jess put there's something very wrong, and it's not entirely his fault. And we can't say more without spelling everything, but just trust us, he needs therapy and urgency. And I will say this that I a hundred percent agree with this, and the reason is because you genuinely, like I said earlier, want to. Root for Apollo. He is the you know Prince Charming, he's handsome, and he seems kind. But then you get to book three, and that's all that I'll say. So just wait, friends, just trust us. He needs therapy.

SPEAKER_01

All right. And favorite quotes. This is my favorite section. We love this section. All right. Um, my first one is she'd always believed in Happily Ever Afters. She just hadn't realized they required so much suffering first. Oof. Oof, that hits. Oof. Um, I did that one because that's basically Evelyn's whole arc. Um, previewed in two sentences. Garber frames the entire book as a fairy tale that keeps refusing to go the way fairy tales are supposed to go.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's a good way to put it too. Because I think what I loved about this series is it really did feel like falling into a magical land. Kind of like people talk about old fairy tales and they try to turn them new or whatever. But you generally feel like you're in this magical place, but the the story doesn't go how you expect it to, and she does it so well, and it's like slowly unrolling that way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and she did it without like I mean, the the big thing now, and obviously we love it, but um, is full-on fantasy worlds. Right. And this wasn't a full-on fantasy world, this was an old fairy tale vibe. So even though she like flipped the script, she did it in a way of bringing back that nostalgia, right? And I really appreciated that. I agree a hundred percent. Yeah, you want to take one of yours? Sure.

SPEAKER_02

So my first one was I believe there are far more possibilities than happily ever after or tragedy. Every story has the potential for infinite endings. Um we love that. I loved this, and it's a theme throughout the whole series. Um, and then there's gonna be a novella coming out this September uh that is related to the series called The Mirror of Infinite Endings. Um I'm super excited about Loki. Um, but I loved this because it's like I said, it's a theme throughout her series, and it speaks to Evangeline's naivety, if that's how you say it. Um, but also like her silent maturity. Like you often look at the black and white in a situation that seems dire. Like you just do. It's like, okay, I need to survive this, and this is this this is the clear path out. And I think uh throughout this whole series that there are clear conflicts that where there are two different roads that you could go down. So, but then there's again that spin of okay, that there are ultimate also gray areas that you could also walk down. Yeah, and she does a Stephanie does a really good job of kind of laying those out for you, of not taking you the traditional route you'd expect. Um and then I also put that instead of considering infinite possibilities, the beauty is of this idea is something that kept me reading throughout the series. And it's because this idea that like Evangeline really do truly does have to kind of consider other options than what she has right in front of her. Um and so I just really liked that for that reason.

SPEAKER_01

But I love that. I completely agree with all that. That I do think that that entire framework is part of the theme of why like both of us were like okay, I read.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I read, I keep going.

SPEAKER_01

Great. All right, so another one of my quotes um is Jack smiled and it was the most dangerous thing she'd ever seen. Not because it was cruel, but because part of it wasn't. That's what I love about him. Yeah, this is the entire Jack's experience, in my opinion. Uh, it's like a cruelty you can protect yourself from, you think. Um that's carrying a lot of weight.

unknown

Oops.

SPEAKER_01

Um, it's the almost kindness that gets you. And I mean, clearly I agree. Clearly. Clearly, I fell for it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I put it's the almost kindness that is Evangeline's Dowfault, too. She sees something in Jax that she's not willing to let go of, and I think it keeps drawing her back to him. And he like silently loves that, you know what I mean? And so, and when I was first reading this book, because then again, I didn't really know anything about Jax, but they explained a little bit about Fate's like tidbits here in the beginning, and I remember them saying something about how like they can become obsessed with something. So in my head, I'm like, oh, he's gonna quickly become obsessed with her attention or something along those lines. Um, but really it's something else entirely. So the like the fact that this is kind of the beginning of us the start of something that makes you kind of root for them in a way, but you're like, no, you shouldn't. Because you're like, clearly, there's something unhinged about Jax that he needs to work through. We love an unhinged. I I agree. It's that little of like, but part of it wasn't. Part of something's there, right?

SPEAKER_01

The whole time gives you like a little bit of hope. We love that little bit of hope. Anyway, uh, the next quote that I have, and the last quote I have for this one, is some prices aren't paid all at once, they're collected slowly, piece by piece, until you look down and realize you have nothing left. Oof. Oof is right. Um in that like I feel like Garber was really doing something thematically with the cost of wanting things. Um, and that it runs through her whole books, like all of her books, in my opinion. Yeah. Like it's not just this one, but even in Caravelle too. It always is like everybody and it's the theme of life, really. Like, everyone's always chasing more, you're always wanting more, you're always doing more. But are you realizing what it's costing you? Right. And like in real life, obviously that's how people get into debt and lose everything. Right. Um, but in the books, that's also how they lose themselves, is constantly giving pieces of themselves to magic or giving pieces of themselves to get what they think is what they need in the or what they want. Yeah. But it turns out to just be what they want and something they that really there's something better and they're not realizing yet. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I love the way this is worded too. It says they're collected slowly, piece by piece, until you look down and realize that there's nothing left. Because I think that is so true with like what you said in an analogy of life. Like we were so willing to give things up here, give things up there, feeling like they're small sacrifices. But when you look at the big picture of things, they add up to something very big. Absolutely. And in the book, it's played out through magic, but and other things, but um, in real life, it's like sacrifices here or taking something for yourself here, but you're sacrificing something at home here, like or giving of yourself or giving someone else.

SPEAKER_01

Like I mean, even in that way, you don't always realize like, oh, I'll just I won't do this for me because they need me. So like I'll go do that instead. And then, oh, well, uh tonight I was gonna do what I needed to do tonight because I already gave of myself that other night. But if you need me too, like I'll just I'll go do that instead. And then you just sit there and you realize, oh, my whole house is a friggin' mess now, right? Like that type of deal. And that can even be like mentally as well, or in an actual relationship, too, of like giving yourself away piece by piece of like, yeah, I'll compromise here, I'll compromise there. Right. And then suddenly you're like, Oh, I'm a shell. Right. Like, I mean, that happens all the time to people. Yeah, and so she put that beautifully, she did exactly what you put said of like until you look down and you realize you have nothing left, because you don't realize it in the moment, right? It's only a hindsight 2020 thing.

SPEAKER_02

It is, it's a big picture thing, and something because I do see that in all of her books that we've read, even Alchemy of Secrets, it's here in small and small ways. And so it makes me wonder if there's like a personal connection to that idea that like these things cost something to her as an author. Questions I have for you, Stephanie. I like that. Uh, and then my next quote and last quote for this section is hope is a difficult thing to kill. Just a spark of it can start a fire. And I really liked this because I think hope is also a big theme in this series as well. Um, but I put it's like kind of a self-explanatory, but I love the imagery uh that hope can be as small as a spark, but it can still ignite into something bigger because fire is very difficult to put out. Um, but I like this idea of hope being very difficult to kill because that's really is Evangeline as a character throughout this entire series. Like she is constantly getting more and more mature, but she holds on to hope throughout the whole series, and I think that's kind of really difficult to navigate as an author of like these things happening to a character, and then that hope that they hold on to being realistic because she becomes more mature and like questioning her decisions and what's the right course to take, but she doesn't ever lose it. Like, no, I believe that there is this infinite endings of like this possible infinite endings, right? So I just really liked that as a character and Stephanie as an author being able to hold both in one character, I thought was really well done.

SPEAKER_01

I completely agree with that. Yep. Love it, love it, love it.

SPEAKER_02

Why we like this bookslash series.

SPEAKER_01

Um I mean, part of it is like it's a spin-off that actually earns being a spinoff. I do not remember the last time. I mean, I don't read a lot of them like this because most of the time it's not worth it. Right, yeah. Um so it's rare that I actually give myself to a spin-off. Yeah. Given we didn't know it was a spin off. I was gonna say we didn't know. But that's the point. Yeah, exactly. Didn't know it was a spinoff, right? Yeah. That originated this character. This is from that, right? Like, but that just goes to show how great she is at writing as well. Because nine, I mean, in my opinion, 90% of the time, if you're reading a spin-off, you're gonna be like, I'm missing something right here. Yes, clearly, something happened here that I don't know about. Yeah, and instead it was just like, oh yeah, let's jump into this series. Jax, who are you?

SPEAKER_02

Who are you? Yeah, because even in the main series of Caravel, we don't get a ton of backstory on Jax. We just know him as a fate, and that's really it. And like, you know, like the prophecy surrounding him and like his true love and all that, but you don't really have his personal character arc slash like background story, which I think is what makes the series so unique as well. Because um, I kind of put this here, um, but uh so often spinoffs are, like you said, a far cry from what made you love the original series, and I think in that way we kind of had a benefit of reading this first and then Caravelle. But Stephanie almost like outdoes herself with this, I feel like, because it's a favorite among so many for a good reason. Like you understand so much more of Jack's, um, but you also understand like why he needed his own character arc in a way. Because like so many of the fates we don't learn about, some of them are brought into this story. But I also think that like the way the world is written, Stephanie does such a good job of separating it from Caravel. Like it doesn't feel like because I feel like Caravel felt kind of felt like a carnival in a way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Of like this magical game, it takes you on a ride, there's magic, and it's fun, you're dropped into a story, but the magnificent north feels like completely separate from that. Like it's it's its own magical kingdom in its own right, but it's still within the same world of Caravel. So the way that she makes it its own with connecting to the story through a couple of characters is really, really well done. But I will say, like, what that's why I think it's it sets it apart. But what I love it so much is that it really feels like the magic is almost its own type. It almost feels separate from Carabel as well because it's not surrounded by legend or caravel or even really the fates, it's really surrounded by this prophecy and Evangeline's issue with you know unlocking doors with her blood and like just the things like that. It feels very separate, and she does such a good job of creating the storyline that draws you in that doesn't feel like a copycat. And I think that's why I I've also never really read a lot of spinoffs, if any before this, if I'm honest, because they always feel like okay, I'm gonna take this character that you love and take them for a ride, but it's short-lived and it's like a similar conflict to the main story or connected to it somehow, but this is completely separate, and I liked that about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So or it's just like drawn out too of like there was no need for this. You gave me nothing. You gave me no backstory, no extra fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I completely agree with all of that. Who we would recommend this to? Uh, would we have read this series? Well, I would say anyone. Um, but also Carabel fans who have been waiting for the Jax book. Um that's really loved Jax. This is your story. Yeah, baby. Um, and really anyone who loves fairy tale retellings with a little dark edge, a little royal court intrigue. Yeah. And love interests who are genuinely unhinged.

SPEAKER_02

I'd also say anyone who's kind of like um n hasn't read a lot of fantasy or it's not your favorite genre, I think this would be a good one to start with, even though, like, even if you didn't read Caravel, I think it'd be a good one to start with. Oh, absolutely. I mean Because it's easy to understand and it's really fun.

SPEAKER_01

I'm really interested statistically, how many people have read another Broken Heart series and haven't read Caravel because it's more popular than Caravel is.

SPEAKER_02

It is, yeah. So because I remember, I forget who it was. So I posted on my story on Instagram that I was reading Caravel, and they're like, Oh my gosh, I've heard about this. It's on my TBR, I haven't started it yet. And I was like, Well, have you read Once Upon a Broken Heart? And they're like, Yeah, I was like, it's a the same author from and it's part of the same world, and they're like, Really? And I was like, You had no idea. Me too. I just mean so I think it really is more popular. I don't think that's necessarily on purpose. I think in recent years is when she's released that series, and so you know, book talk and things like that made a combo. It's become yeah, it's become more popular to read. And Caraval was written when before the whole book talk thing. So, anyway, all to say if you're more starting to get back into reading, I would recommend it to you as well. It's easy to get into fantasy, I feel like, with this series.

SPEAKER_01

So I agree with that. All right, speaking of reading, the author's style and signature move. Garber leans harder into fairy tale language and structure here than Caravelle. Um, it definitely feels more lyrical, more than mythical, in my opinion. I agree. And she seems like she's deliberately writing something that feels ancient, even though it's brand new. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I just put that the entire series feels like a fairy tale retelling, but better. Like I think there have been a lot of fairy tale retellings of like Cinderella and um, you know, Beauty and the Beast and um things like that. But it feels like that, but better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and like they're classics for a reason, but at the same time, can we get some new ones?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and when I say by that, I don't mean that she's taking an original story and twisting it because that's not what it is. The story itself really is original to Stephanie, but the setting feels very fairy tale-like, and that's what I mean by that.

unknown

I follow.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, thank you. Especially places like the hollow, which I don't think we actually see until next book, but it feels very like, oh yeah, yeah. I want to go to the hell. Let's go to the hollow. Yeah, let's go to the hollow, guys. Are you ready? I hope you are because that's what we're doing next. All right, friends. Welcome to the ballad of never after, and that is book two in the Once Upon a Time Broken Heart series. Evangeline is back. The stakes just went from bad to catastrophic, and Jax is acting like someone with something to lose. And Garber absolutely destroys us in the final act. That's to put it lightly. Let's discuss.

SPEAKER_01

So, our plot summary today. Picking up right after Once Upon a Broken Heart, Evelyn is dealing with the fallout of the last book's ending, which was messy, to put it gently. Um, there is a new threat, an arch with the power to grant any wish, but someone is trying to open it, and the cost of that wish will destroy everything. Dun dun dun. I love that we didn't plan that, guys. Like, I just need you to understand we don't plan to speak at the same time, other than the intro. We're just in sync.

SPEAKER_03

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01

What can I say?

SPEAKER_02

Except you're welcome. Wow, we did get two songs in one episode. You guys have in for a treat today. Maybe we should just start singing or entire party.

SPEAKER_01

You should. I'll just take a back seat. Maybe when I don't have a cold, okay. Same, same. All right, so Evelyn and Jax are stuck working together. Yet again, we love that. We love force proximity. Hoop whoop.

SPEAKER_02

Uh it's probably one of my favorite tropes. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway, continue. Me too, for sure. Except this time the tension between them has upgraded from dangerous to something. Go ahead. To someone is going to do something irreversible. To put it lightly. But you know, we love that. The mythology deepens significantly, and we learn a lot more about the fates and about Jack's past and what the prophecy involving Evelyn actually means. It's a lot, yeah. You don't expect it. Like they didn't, she did really good about like alluding to this, and then you find out the prophecy, and you're like, oh shoot, girl, you're in for it. Right. Exactly. I wish you the best. Right. Good luck. Have fun. Be safe. I don't know if it can be in this kind of world, but also like put me in it.

SPEAKER_02

Right just like, put me in, coach.

SPEAKER_01

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. I'll also say though, like, where this the last book ended with um Apollo being put under. It's basically in a coma, a magical coma, uh, which is what put her in Jackson and Tiffy. But I will say that, like, the way that because I don't know. Again, we've said we've said this before with Stephanie with Caravelle, but she does such a good job at just compounding the conflict on top of each other. And you're just so far deep in that you're like, where are you gonna go with this? And that's what felt and that's what it felt like when I read Evangeline's prophecy. I was like, what do you mean? She's gonna basically sacrifice herself. I don't understand what's going on. It just feels like it's just layer after layer after layer. So anyway, it's good, but it's a lot. So we love a lot. We love a love a love a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Main character breakdown. Evelyn, our OG girl. She's older, she's sharper, and she's still hopeful. But the hulk has teeth now. She's ready, she's rolling. But the better to eat you with, my dear.

SPEAKER_02

You can just ignore me, it's fine. Continue. I will never ignore you. It's too entertaining. I warned you at the top of the episode, friends. If you're still here, that's on you. I'm grateful that you're here. Thanks for sticking around.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I agree. Shout out to y'all. Mid vodka episode, anyway. Um, so the growth in this book from book one to book two is real. It's real, real. I agree. Caitlin's over there crying. Crying. It's um in a good way. I didn't hurt her. I don't know. I just cry when I laugh a lot. So just know that's all I think. Yeah, if I'm like, oh, Caitlin's crying, that's why. It's a good sign. We're enjoying ourselves. Yes. Uh Emily is no longer naive, but she also hasn't become cynical anymore, which is very hard to write, which is what you kind of pointed out last time. Um, and quite frankly, I think that's just a rare trait, anyways. Like to go through a lot and actually still have hope. Yes, get on you, man. Like, we love that.

SPEAKER_02

We love to see it, even if it doesn't happen all the time. But yeah, I put that Garber definitely um helped Evangeline still have hope. And it's almost unnerving how well she allows both to exist in one character. I said that a little bit just earlier in this episode, but she does a really good job at writing both of those at the same time. The next character is Jack. Would you like to go? He's your favorite.

SPEAKER_01

Always talk about Jack's. Um, Jack's in this one, he has reluctant feelings. Um the fact that he has them, yeah, he has feelings. We love that. Um Prophecy Filcrum. And he is doing the most to seem like he does not care. Which buddy means you care. You have a heart, even though you shouldn't. Um, which, like, that's actually his whole thing, is that he doesn't have a heart, just to be clear. Yeah. Um, quick take on him is that book two Jax is a crisis. The walls are coming down, and he just keeps rebuilding them, but you can see him doing it, and it's agonizing. In the best way. And we're I'm not okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I agree. The way that you see him start deeply caring for Evangeline and not in the same obsessive way that he did with Tella last uh book series is honestly really beautiful to watch on the page. And Evangeline. Slowly breaks down his walls, and I'm here for that. Like he's slowly trying to fight against her the whole time, but she and she almost like does it unintentionally, which is what that's so beautiful about it. It's very organic between the two of them. We love an organic. And that's what I really loved about it is that it didn't feel forced. Like I feel like sometimes on the page, you can definitely tell when two characters are kind of forced together, even though they don't really work super well, but like the author wants them to. So this photo is very organic on the page, and I thought that was really beautifully written. Like the scenes with them in the hollow just breaks my heart. I love it so much. Just take it out.

SPEAKER_01

If you know, you know, you can wake up and forget it.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, it's probably one of the most quoted lines of the whole series. Like when we wake up tomorrow, you can uh pretend like you still hate me, and I'll pretend that I don't care. But right now, let me pretend that you're mine. Literal heart in a puddle. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01

Give me that. I mean, like better, but yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, who doesn't want that moment?

SPEAKER_02

I do think it's interesting too, because a plot point in this whole series is that he can't kiss someone without killing them. And so, like, they don't ever kiss really. So it's almost like there's so much tension, but there's nowhere to put it. But he's like, just let me hold you.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm like, oh, my heart's a puddle. Which is like it's more intimate than a kiss. It is, it is.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just saying that like that's probably what makes it more like heart-wrenching is that yeah, they clearly have feelings for each other, but they can't express them. And it's like, I'll just hold you and we'll pretend like it's we'll hate each other tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm like, uh, I love you. It's like I can't help but have feelings at this point. Exactly. I can't hold my feelings in anymore.

SPEAKER_02

I can't do it tonight. Not after you almost died. Loki.

SPEAKER_01

Speaking of love, the next character.

SPEAKER_02

Great transition. Layla, the unwed bride. Yes, the unwed bride. She is a fate, she is a wild card, she has chaotic energy personified, um, and she's unexpectedly important. Um, she's a welcome presence, and I 100% agree with that because I put it was so nice to have another FMC. Um, but she was really more morally gray even than Jax. And I don't know if that's because of Jax's character arc being on its way the way it was already in book two. Because he's a redeemer. But that was kind of fun for me. I really enjoyed um not really knowing where her loyalty lies in this book. You kind of were questioning everything because she is a fate in that sense. Um, but you put that she's also genuinely powerful and her loyalty is complicated. I'm like, absolutely, 100%. But she was fun. I enjoyed having another girl on the page that you were kind of were silently rooting for.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I definitely would go for a whole book on her. Me too. I mean, I would go for a whole book on like every fate. Yeah. I want to know more about the fate. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

You do get more of her and Jax's backstory in book three, but that's because they're kind of intertwined. So but yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01

I would do a whole series on just the fates, which I know like each one of these series talks about the fates. Caitlin's laughing at me because I said this. She said this. Yep. I just want more about the fate. Okay. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

You just Stephanie's like, is there another one that I will fall in love with?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like you wrote them too well. Okay. It's not my fault, it's yours. I need you to write more, please. That's true.

SPEAKER_02

I need the sequel to Alchemy Secrets like tomorrow. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Really yesterday.

SPEAKER_02

Probably because she's been working on the Mirror of Infinite Endings that's coming out in September, which again I will be reading, so it's fine. Why is everything releasing at the end of this year as well? Anyway, that's just a side rant. I'm a little frustrated and controlled by it, or what's the word? Uh, consumed by it right now. Continue.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I welcome it. Yes, yes. Let's let's have all the good reads in the fall and winter. I mean, we will be, that's true. I'd rather that than like, I mean, I I want them always, but the way she doesn't have words is like saying it all. But really, though. I'm here for it. Like, I want them always, but at the same time, like you give me some good reads in the fall and the winter, and ooh, baby. I'm living my best life. Ooh, baby. Give me my cozy corner, my cozy chair, cozy blanket, yeah, cozy tea, cozy book.

SPEAKER_02

Winning. I love it so much. Oh my gosh. I'm here for it. I will say that I'm super excited about it because it will be related to this series. It will be with um um, I almost said Jess and Jess. Oh, okay. Sorry, Evangeline and Jack. I think it'll be the main characters. So I'm super excited about that.

SPEAKER_01

Agreed. Agreed. All right, speaking of my emotional damage. Um, I was maybe a little generous. I was gonna say, but I also don't completely disagree. So um I'm gonna change it a little bit. I'm gonna put 8.5 uh because I feel like nine was a little generous. Um, but I think I'm just a little biased because it has jacks, okay. I understand 100%. Where this hit the hardest, in my opinion, was the ending. We won't elaborate in great detail, but the ending of this one that you could talk about a full day in and of itself with this one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I put that the way my heart hurt for Jack's at the end of this book was a plot twist, even in and of itself. Because again, when I started the series, living for it.

SPEAKER_01

I living for her to be like, oh my heart, Jack. Like, yeah, yeah, I told you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I told you, I told you. Shipping the whole time. Um, but yeah, I felt for him because again, like I didn't really know if I should be trusting him or not, and then he goes and sacrifices what he wants for her, and that's just a whole nother type of knife in the gut and twist it, you know. But I agree with 8.5 100%. I don't think that's a complete nine. Um, but I do think that it was definitely very heart-wrenching because you're silently rooting for them as a couple, but then he goes and kind of ruins it because now she won't remember him.

SPEAKER_01

Poor guy. It is so sad. It is. Yeah, and what really surprised me was that um was just how Jack's backstory just reframes everything. And once you understand why he is the way that he is, the entire first book hits differently. It does. And she planted all the like Garber planted all the seeds for that from book one. If you just paid attention to the seeds at all Jack's. Um, and then you're just like, oh, oh, Jack! You know, yeah. Um if you know, you know, you know, you know. And did I cry? I I'm not a crier. So when I say yes, I really mean emotionally. Um if I tell you I legit had tears, you should probably just have a tissue box when you read because I'm a little bit heartless.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Um 100% can concur.

SPEAKER_01

The fact that she just to the internet.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't mean that I didn't realize I didn't mean that she's heartless. That sounded poor, that was poor timing on my part. I'm not a crier. I'm not a heartless. Yeah, I'm not a crier. So if you said you cry, then that means it's a big deal and it's very heart-wrenching. Yes. I will say that um I didn't cry, but I did tear up towards the end um for similar reasons. But the way she writes it is what gets your heart. Absolutely. Anyway, date them or call them man one.

SPEAKER_01

She's chuckling because yet again she's surprised at the people that I put. Who was a?

SPEAKER_02

I just don't know why we keep adding the sleep FMCs. But that's fine. Here we are. Evangeline is first. Ma'am, you can remove them. No, I actually am here for it. It's just I don't know why I'm surprised every time.

SPEAKER_01

Here we are. So Evelyn, dater. Uh, she's fighting for her life and her own story in a world that keeps trying to make her a supporting character in someone else's. And that's incredibly dateable energy. She's grown so much. She's grown so much. She's a little more mature now, so totally dateable. Yeah, she's more mature. She's grown. She has character art. She's doing the things, she's putting in the work, she's she's doing all the things. She's even making a fate fall in love with her. Look at her go. She's done the inevitable. We love it. Speaking of fate and who we love, Jack! Jax!

SPEAKER_02

The way your face lit up. I love it. Please move on to things. I'm so proud of you for putting therapy and not immediately date. It is dateable.

SPEAKER_01

What she doesn't know is that was an editing fail. I'm kidding, kind of. I meant to put date and therapy. So, like, two at once. I kiss up laughing. Because I can't help it because it's him. But she's we know who her crux is, it's fine. Yeah, but she just saw the therapy part, and that's why she was proud of me, because I forgot to park the date part.

SPEAKER_02

My best my favorite part is that, like, during the because we had this broken up on our outline as like the character, the verdict, and then the because the why. And she, but but we believe in him now. And I could just hear her whispering that.

SPEAKER_01

Let me just read you that part. We are formally downgrading him from 911. He did something in this book that cost him enormously, and he did it, and and he did it anyway. And we have not recovered. He still needs therapy desperately. He is dateable now, just with some therapy, but we believe in him now.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

We believe that doesn't make your day. I don't know what will. That was great. You're welcome, friends. And our next character is Lala. Layla. Sure, I call her Lala the whole book. But just put she's dateable. Chaotic, yes. But trustworthy, maybe. But at parties, absolutely. The parties are also partially her fault. So Tan would hang with Lala. Solid best friend energy. I love Lala, I'm not gonna lie. I think again, my one of my favorite parts about Lala is that she does, she is the morally great character of this book. And I kind of loved that. It was a girl.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I agree. It's always a guy. I'm I'm not saying that because I'm feminist or not, but yeah, it's just truly it's just always a guy.

SPEAKER_02

It really is. Girls are usually the love interests.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like respectable. Good job, Stephanie. Switching it up on us. I believe both genders are fully capable of morally gray and fully capable of shady.

SPEAKER_02

So all right, and on to our favorite section. Favorite quotes. Jess, would you like to start us off?

SPEAKER_01

My favorite first quote is She had stopped believing in safe choices. Safe choices had gotten her here. She wanted the ones worth making. Oof. We love it. Um, I said this last time with a quote, but it's really like her whole book to arc, Emiline's. She's done playing with safe, and it's terrifying and thrilling to watch. We love a girl who just says, you know what? Safety to the wind.

SPEAKER_02

I relate. It reminded me a little bit of a quote that we had last Caravel episode too. Um I forget exactly what it was, if I'm honest. So I'm sorry. But it was something similar along the lines of like wanting to do things that were worth it. Um do you know what I'm talking about? I do, but I don't remember. No, it's okay. As long as you know what I'm talking about, at least we're on the same page. So I liked this because it was similar in the fact that like she, it's not that she's just for like any and all choices. She wants to make the ones that are worth making. So even if it's not safe, she'll make it as long as it's worth it in the end. Which I think is a big character arc for her because in book one, she was so willing to do anything. And then she quickly learned, oh, there are some things maybe I shouldn't be willing to do.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe I shouldn't be willing to murder.

SPEAKER_02

But I'll do it if it's worth it in the end for those that I care about. So that was cool. Love, love, love.

SPEAKER_01

Speaking of those that are worth it, keep going. He looked at her the way people look at things they're trying to memorize before they lose them. Yeah. Tell me that didn't just rip your little heart out. It did.

SPEAKER_02

The way you played like Southern Mama in that moment.

SPEAKER_01

Rip your little heart out. We both know the more tired I get, the more an accent comes out. Okay. I can't help it.

SPEAKER_02

Coming out now. No, I agree. That was a good one. Honestly, there were so many good, like, love quotes in this from Jax and Evangeline. It's so good. So I agree. I'll just go ahead and round out my three. Go ahead. But first of all, you have to read the her note on this. Jax, we cannot. This is the line that broke us. You know, something we don't, and yet the devastation is baked into this sentence. I just love her drama. Okay, that's all. Bye. I'm a little dramatic. Um you can't see this, but she like put her hand up, like flicking something away, and I love it.

SPEAKER_01

Anyway. I'm a little dramatic in real life and definitely infilling all outlines. Okay. I'm here for it, honestly. Makes my day. I'm so glad. Basically, what happens is Caitlin will either type out an outline or I'll type out an outline, and then the other goes in and adds notes. So I did for a couple every time she's like, these outlines. So good.

SPEAKER_02

So good. I even texted her today. I was like, You're so good at these. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

So honored. And in my head, whenever you say that, I'm like, which part did she say that to? Right.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I did a lot. I am a lot. Uh anyway. My last quote on here is every story has a cost. The tragedy isn't paying it. The tragedy is not knowing what you're paying for until it's already gone. Preach.

SPEAKER_02

Too soon? No. Okay. But I do think that this is definitely book two summed up. So go ahead. So good.

SPEAKER_01

So your quotes, Caitlin.

SPEAKER_02

You have no notes on that? You don't want to say anything about it?

SPEAKER_01

I think I need to stop talking. You don't want to say why you liked it?

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Oh, oh.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Sorry, friends. Like I said, it's gonna be an entertaining episode.

SPEAKER_01

Basically, because the entire trilogy is about love as a sacrifice, and this line is where she just puts it very quite plainly but eloquently. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I think a lot of, like we said earlier, a lot of her writing, um, at least in the books we've read by her, have a lot to do with paying a cost for something, and love is one of them. And so I agree. All right. My first of two quotes that I had for this book is winning at love was less about succeeding in a battle and more about continuing to fight, to choose the person you loved as the one you were willing to die for over and over.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

I just but I'm not crying, you're crying.

SPEAKER_01

Amen.

SPEAKER_02

But I think that's so true. I think a lot we read a lot of like romantic, even just you know, contemporary romance books. Um, nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying I think a lot of theme themes around love is about dying for someone, giving up the world for them. I'll burn the world down for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's incredibly romantic. But I also loved the idea that like really love is also about fighting for the other person, um, willing to sacrifice for them, dying over and over to yourself. Like being a married woman myself, I completely agree with that. Like, I love my husband more than anything. But part of it part of making our relationship work means like dying to myself and sacrificing things in a relationship. And he does the same for me, it's not just one or the other, it's both all in 100% all the time. So I really love the way that was written because I was like, This is somebody who has to be married or has at least experienced like what that really means, because it's true. Like, if you want a successful love story, it's sacrificing what you need to make it work.

SPEAKER_01

And I love that as a non-married woman, um, I completely agree with all of that, and that's exactly how I would even describe love. Like, I I'm gonna go on a little tangent. Um like I always hear, especially from single people and growing up, and even in some relationships, like people just have this fairy tale, idealistic thought process of love and of dating and of marriage and all of that. And it has always irritated me. Yeah, absolutely. And like I grew up with my grandparents taking me to marriage conferences with them and marriage classes, so maybe that's part of like what shaped me with it. Yeah, like you had like the wisdom before your years.

unknown

What can I say?

SPEAKER_02

She's like flipping her hair back, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but yeah, like I will never forget one time somebody like legitimately being like, well, it should just be easy about love. And I it took everything in me not to flip in that moment and be like, that's not how that works. Like, love is choosing that person, right? Love is fighting for that person, love is going time and time again, putting yourself before after them, I mean, right? Putting yourself down so that you can lift them up and them doing the same for you. It is not, oh, this and there's our parts that are easy. I I I understand that. However, it's the moments that you don't want to do something for them that you choose to do it for them anyway. Anyway, right? Like, and so hearing somebody say that and that they oh, oh, I could go on for a whole little tangent with that, like, but it's it's always driven me nuts. And I think um, I think it was in Heartless Hunter that there was a moment that he was like, You're running away instead of fighting for this. Yeah, and that's not choosing this. That's maybe we should do that next. Yeah, yeah, maybe we should. Um, but in that moment, like I read that and I was just like, Yes, yes, yell it out to the world.

SPEAKER_02

And that's what I think, like, that's why I think this is written so well. Because it says winning at love is less about succeeding in a battle, but more about being willing to die over and over it. Because I think that's true. Like, I think it's really easy to again. I think we grew up on a lot of Disney movies where it's like happily live after. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those I those pretty pictures, because again, they're entertaining and they pull your heart strings and make you want something bigger than yourself.

SPEAKER_01

And there are moments of that in a relationship and in a marriage.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I also think that like there's truth to like people always talk about in marriage like the honeymoon phase, like you feel those things, yeah, but it's not always about the feeling, right? And so like the feeling's there, but that's why you fight for choosing right, yes. So I just liked that because I think she worded it so beautifully. Like you have these big feelings that are real, but they're willing, you need to be willing to fight for it. It's not always gonna feel that way.

SPEAKER_01

But it's actually the easy way out, walking away, right?

SPEAKER_02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Fighting for it shows you actually love it.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I love that. And then my second quote was Um Ever since coming here, Jax no longer felt like her enemy, he felt like her home. And I just I just wrote, I needed a second tissue box after this scene. That is all.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_02

So this is when they're at the hollow, and Evangeline is kind of processing through how she feels about Jax because she's learning about his backstory. They're having kind of like their own little like honeymoon moment without it being a honeymoon, without them even really talking about how they feel about each other. Um, but I love this idea for her who like who's kind of like stripped of her home because her parents died. She had this uh terrible stepmother, typical again, fairy tale storyline, but um, she had this feeling of feeling at home with somebody else that she hadn't had since her parents, and I loved that. That that was kind of her moment of realizing, oh, like I have feelings for Jax that are real, they're not just like these made-up things that I'm attracted to him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it wasn't like idealistic, it was I'm home, right?

SPEAKER_02

Like he feels safe, even though I shouldn't feel safe, and I loved that because it was after that scene too where he like takes care of her and oh loved it. So I just thought that was so sweet.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I need a tissue box.

SPEAKER_02

So why do you like this bookslash series?

SPEAKER_01

The middle book problem is real, but not in this one.

SPEAKER_02

Um, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01

A lot, well, a lot of series fall apart in book two, and this one actually doesn't. Um, instead, it makes a case for why this trilogy needed to be a trilogy by expanding everything about book one that worked. Yes, and I just really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I also put that I think it expanded things so organically. Yes, and it almost felt better than book one, which is wild because I loved book one. Like I think I texted you when I was reading it because I what happened with this series again. We read it before Carabelle. I had bought this book on a whim at a bookstore. Yes, because I do that a lot. Sometimes I'll be like, Oh, I've heard about that. I'll just buy the book because eventually, if it's on my shelf and I haven't read it, I feel like it's incomplete. So eventually I do read it. That's sounds really dumb, but it's true. That's how my TBR works, don't judge me. So I read it when I was sick and I couldn't put it down. I loved it. I was drawn in. That's just typical Stephanie Garber style. She draws you in, she keeps you going. Um, but then I read book two, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's almost better than book one. How is this a real thing? And that's it. Because then you really fall in love with Jax. That's this is really when I fell in love with Jax was book two. I kept reading for Evangeline in book one, and so I loved that it almost felt like it was better almost than book one, um, which it didn't feel possible when I first read the series. So I loved that. That's what set it apart for me. I liked that book specifically. I think it's one of my favorites in this trilogy. I think it's one of my my favorite book of the three, um, outside of the last scene of the last book, which we'll get to.

SPEAKER_01

But I completely agree with all of that. Um, I would say we'd recommend it to anyone that's I mean, same thing as last time. If you read Caraval, read it. If you read the first book of the series, read it. Don't just jump into this book, please.

SPEAKER_02

Please don't. You'll be so confused. Any any Stephanie Stephanie Garba book, you have to start from the beginning because everything just compounds on itself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so read the book and then get the next one because we're gonna go over that. Um, and quite frankly, we need to discuss it in a support group setting. So grab it. Um that's about it. We've kind of we've already talked really about Stephanie Garber's pacing. Um her pacing's relentless. It is.

SPEAKER_02

And even in I think you put it in this note here too, that like there are some quiet moments in this book, but it still feels very like back to back to back to back.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I said um it's a short, it's a shorter book that feels like it moves fast and hits hard. She's mastered the art of the gut punch disguised as a quiet moment.

SPEAKER_02

So true. Again, back to that hollow scene, my dear goodness gracious. Um, I put as a note to that, like she keeps you in the edge of your seat, even in the quiet moments, because we did say that the slow burn is top-tier level in this book. I guess I didn't mention that like I meant to, because it is. Slow burn is so good.

SPEAKER_01

We love a slow burn.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes, yes. All right, friends.

SPEAKER_01

Should you read the next book? The next book is A Curse for True Love. It is the finale, and as I said earlier, we need to discuss it in a support group setting. So I'm gonna need you to go ahead and listen to our next podcast episode on it. So hop right on over. This has been Book Spruce and Banter.

SPEAKER_02

I'm Kate, and I'm Jess. Bye, friends.