Ellen McBrayer Makes History

In this episode, we celebrate Ellen McBrayer’s groundbreaking election as the first woman to rise through the officer chairs of the National Funeral Directors Association (NFDA). The conversation explores the journey to leadership in funeral service, the power of volunteering, and the value of mentorship at every stage of your career.

The group also highlights two upcoming events from Funeral Women Lead: the Women’s Leadership Academy, launching November 17, and the Women’s Wellness Summit, happening November 17–19 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Registration is now open at funeralwomenlead.org/events

Have a topic or question for the show? Email us at info@funeralwomenlead.org!

Transcript

0:02

Hey everyone. We're back again with four women in a funeral. I'd really like to welcome our four women, Lisa Baue here with Funeral Women Lead Elisa Carr with Kelco, and we have of course Ellen McRay with her funeral home company in Georgia. And of course. The newest secretary elected to NFDA. We're so excited to have you and Melissa Posey Loose with Security National Life. So welcome ladies. We're back. Yay. Hey, a big round of applause for Ellen, by the way, campaign. Great job. Thank you. We are so excited. Woman in Leadership at NFDA. We're gonna talk about leadership today 'cause I think it's a very important topic. And at funeral Women Lead, we have a leadership academy. We're starting, it's gonna kick off this November. You arrive on the 16th, you, it kicks off with a one day in-person event on the 17th. Of November, you'll be spending some time with the dean of our leadership academy, Kristen Ernst. And Kristen is amazing. She runs her own counseling and coaching center. She's been working with women and women leaders in some of their challenges, I would say.'cause we all have 'em, right? And in Kristen, mentors and coaches, women. So please join us. Go to our website, funeral women lead.org, and go to the events page and learn more about the Women's Leadership Academy. It's a full year program. One time in person this November. Online the rest of the time and then coming back to graduate the following November, and it shows up right before our wellness summit. So we'd love for you to stay and spend time with us working on wellness because we all need that. So speaking of wellness, part of what we do as women leaders. Is work on that and we'll talk about that maybe in our next session. But let's talk about leadership because it's coming fresh off the election with NFDA, national Funeral Directors Association, where the first time in its history, since 1897, maybe, I'm guessing here, we should probably get that date down, Ellen. They've had seven women serve on the board. And this is the first time a woman has been elected to go up the chairs in leadership. And that woman is Ellen McBrayer, and we're just super excited to have her with us today and part of our feud for women in a funeral. So Ellen, what does it take to become a leader in NFDA? How do you get there? You know, that seems like a lot of work. Yeah. I mean, do we have time for this? You're a mom, you're a wife, you're busy running a funeral home and cemetery company. Tell us about that. Yeah. So first of all, I'll start with 1882 is when NFDA started. We'll start with the date. So yeah, 1882. There you go. And you know, leadership. Um, I think, I feel like leadership finds you as a person. I feel like if you wake up and you're like, I am chosen to be a leader, that's probably not the best start. I feel like leadership finds you. It's just been something that, um, has been a dream of mine for a long time to just be surrounded with. Really smart people around the table that are ready to help support funeral directors in, in different states, in different regions. And really just to, you know, so the start of my journey started, you know, when my father passed away, had, my first goal was to get out of Auburn University. I graduated there when I started in funeral service. I just sought out ways to serve with the NFDA and, and serving on committees is where I started and, and just continuing each year from then and served on so many different committees just to really grow my knowledge and skill sets to be able to, to know what NFDA is truly. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and I think sitting around the computer at night and being like, Ooh, what are more NFFD benefits, you know, and I would just go on there and just search the website for. For just different ways to help support our staff and our team as a small business. You know, I think that's where you start when you are busy and you have, um, you know, I heard one of my, my mentors one time, he said, you know, when you have so much to do, it's not that you can't do everything 'cause you probably have the skillsets to do more than you can, but you have to decide what to outsource and who to outsource it to. And NFDA offers so many of those tools. So I would sit around when I was, um, you know, very young in funeral service and just look for ways to help. Make our workload easier at the funeral home by using resources from the NFDA. Yeah. And you're reading their magazine now. So let's, let's clarify this. There was nothing online, so I used to sit at the front desk back in then. Yeah. Yeah. And I would open up the NFDA Director magazine and I'd just read every article that was in there. Mm-hmm. And serving on committees though that, that. That takes some courage to do that because some don't. You think some people, uh, would think, gosh, you know, this sounds like a lot of time. Do I have time to serve on a committee? Tell us a little bit more about serving on committees. How do you get there? If you're a funeral director, uh, wherever you are in your career journey and you want to give back a little bit to your profession, how do you go about that? Yeah, so now you can go on and fill out a survey on the website, you know, and ask to be submitted for, um, a committee. Back, back when I was coming up, it was networking and just finding the right person to talk to and say, Hey, I would love to do this. Or, or it is, it is intimidating. Or get somebody that believes in you. You know, actually the way I started serving was, um, you know, Valerie Wages grabbed me at a convention and said, Hey, you need to put her on a committee. She, she loves pursuit of excellence, you know, she's ready to serve and you know, it's really just. You know, the networking or listening to this podcast or going to the leadership summit and, and really connecting and, and leadership will find you. Just like that day, Valerie grabbed me and said, Hey, you know, she would be a good candidate for committee, you know, leadership. You know, when you go to these events and network and get to know people, they see things and qualities in you that are leadership that you probably don't see for yourself. So it's, it is really, it is about the funeral service family. You know, I say that a lot. The NFDA family, the funeral service family, it just, there's nothing like it. That's cool. And state associations have committees too, right? So, um, there's ways to contact your state association. Maybe start there. Start in your own state, see if there's, um, a committee that has interest to you. I mean, what, tell us a little bit more about what are all these committees like, what do they do and, and, uh, you know, kind of what are the topics? I remember as a young funeral director sitting on a committee that, uh, was about. Um, the legal laws and I thought, I know nothing about laws, nothing, but we put together a whole new law because I got tired of people cutting in procession in into our processions, right. And it, there was no like anything that would hold up that said, no, you can't do that. And we actually got it to go on the driver's testing, uh, area where you took that as part of your test, you knew you couldn't cut into a funeral profession procession, and that was hard. To get through the state, you know, and getting it all the way through the legislative process. So anybody else have experiences of serving on committees and funeral service they wanna share? I do with, uh, funeral Service Foundation. I've really enjoyed my time, um, on one of the committees there, and it was so exciting to be a part of a group. And I think, Ellen, you've articulated this to me before. Doing something that makes such an impact on so many people. I was privileged to be a part of when a child Dies. The booklet, if you haven't seen it, it's I love that resource. Used it do too. Yeah. Yeah. Youth and funerals, um, and getting the word out about that. It was just fantastic. And not only being a part of creating that, but getting to meet the people that are from around the country. I mean, I remember I met. Gosh, I met so many people doing that. I, I just, it was such a growth opportunity for me professionally and personally, and I loved it. Um, so yeah, and I, I have to also say one more thing about NFDA, um, Leslie Whitter, I credit her with my love of. Advocacy. Mm-hmm. She told me one time, my very first professional women's conference I ever attended as a funeral director. And I remember just walking in there and thinking, gosh, you, I don't know anybody, you know, and she came right up to me and just, she made me feel like I was the most important person in the room. And she could tell I was interested in the topics we were talking about, and some of them were legislative type things, you know? And she, she opened the door for learning more about that. And so. Um, yeah. Serving can not only benefit your firm or your company or whomever you're with, but you've got that personal element too that grows you and you've gotta have that personal and professional bandwidth as a leader. And I think. Serving really gives you the opportunity to do that. I, I think you're so right, Elisa, how about you? Exactly. You've served on a couple of committees and funeral service. How did they help you become a better leader? I have, um, I guess my first experience would've been, um, serving on committees with the Children's Grief Connection, uh, the Minnesota Organization for Children's Grief, um, in the. Family camps that they put on. So I, I initially started with, um, their marketing committee and also the French committee. So that's where my love for the, the I, we can't call it a polar pLoosenge, but the French, as we, as we called it, um, sort of began because I was part of that planning process and it kind of grew and grew and eventually I was in invited to join their board and, and served on that, uh, that board for 10 years actually before. Terming out basically. Um, that's really cool. Are you still jumping in that cold water? That's what I wanna know. Yeah. I wanna know about that. I have not jumped. See, being a leader, you gotta be courageous, right? Yes, I know. Tell us about this pl, this FUNY pLoosenge thing. You guys too. It is, yeah. Well, the organization now is called Healing Hearts Connection. Um, and they're still doing it? They're, they're, oh, we're probably 17 years in now. Um, I have not done it for the last two years. Um, commitments that, that I had, uh, on my calendar with my kids and different stuff, um, got, got in that way and I, I've chosen to, to prioritize things in that way now that I said, we can just leave this to the young guys. Right. My husband at one point, you know, had a, had a bit of a scare. In water. And he said, he'll, literally right when he got pulled outta the water, he said, I'm never jumping in that lake again like that. Oh gosh. It, it, like that gave him a, a, a flashback to, to that kind of, that event. And it wasn't even that event. So, um, you know, he's been out for a while and we, we would come and bring the bus and, you know, have this big, I guess, presence. We'd have like 20, 20 to 30 people on our bus. And the video cameras would be waiting for us there. So it created a bit of a stir and, and, you know, some excitement around the event and, and all that kind of stuff. So. That's cool. It's still fun. Yeah. So you, you continued to help grow this thing and at a bus and brought all these people and all your staff as well, and that's really cool. Yep. So that, but what did you learn the whole time you served on that committee? I mean, what kind of leadership gifts did you get? Little takeaways as you've been Yeah. Think about that ladies, that, you know, part of voLoosenteering takes courage to jump in. Uh, it takes a little time. You do have to give some time of yourself, uh, to serve on these committees and come up with ideas and maybe be part of a voLoosenteer group. But really, what gift do you feel in your leadership growth and journey it has given you to serve on these committees? I would say connection. I mean, being engaged in, in things that get people excited and, um, you know, be having to be a part of that. Um. Keeps, keeps you interested, keeps, keeps you in the profession, and really, really understanding who you know, who is working with you, who, who's working alongside of you, um, you know, towards whatever goal we're looking for, right? So I think that's connection for What about you, Alan? What'd you, what have you learned all these committees you've served on at NFDA over the years? What kind of gifts has that given you as, as a, as a growing leader? You know, my favorite part is like, you know, it's like a puzzle. Like, you know, you may have the perfect puzzle piece, it may not fit in the area you think it fits in. And to work with a group, you know, I get, or you could, since we're, you know, four women in funeral, you could talk about an autopsy. Being able to put autopsy back together, you know, bring all the pieces together and it may look a little different than, you know, the puzzle in your mind, but to, to pull a good idea and a pull. Everybody's idea together and the creativity to be able to make it all work and be even better than what you could have imagined. That's the beauty of a committee is really being able to, you know, to to, to join together and have enough confidence. While you're kind of maybe overwhelmed to listen to somebody else's idea and just kind of pa patiently wait and then say, Hey, is is starting to come together and like be able to form it all in this beautiful masterpiece, that that's better for everybody than what what one person could have imagined. That's my favorite part of working as a team and on a C committee. So the puzzle's not whole without all the pieces. It's not all the secret. So a couple things. So, so in leadership then you, you wanna be a good listener while you're serving on a committee. At the same time, you do have to speak up a little bit. Otherwise, your ideas that you might have may not be heard, but allowing others to speak and listening to their ideas and then trying to bring some of yours in there, I think that's, that's a good side of leadership. That's a good training for leadership. And I'll use you as an example, Lisa. You're very good at like, so, you know, if you think about sitting at the table, the, the silent person may be the strongest leader at a table. You know, they just may not speak up. But Lisa, your natural skillset is you ask, you call names and you ask everybody, and you pull out these beautiful things from everybody and say like, that's a, that's a beauty of like leading a committee. So if you're a committee chair, you know, like those are the beauties when you have a strong leader. The, the leader or the chair committee really can pull out by calling names, making sure you go around the table to really get everybody's opinion, because the strongest person at the table might always be the quietest. Yeah, you're right. You're so right. That was nice, you know? Yeah, that was really nice. Nice. What You don't consider myself the, the loudest voice in the room either, but, um, yeah. You know, I'd like to sit back and I do like to listen and I feel like that's what, what one of my greatest traits as a leader is to really, mm-hmm. Gather opinions and get different perceptions, and ultimately if the, the decision falls on me. It does, but I've had input from, from others around me, so. Mm-hmm. That's important. Yeah. I would say that's looking at all three of you, y'all all three have that skillset. Y'all really have watched each of y'all work a room and y'all, y'all can find ways to pull out work, girl. Just beautiful stuff. Yeah. You can work it well. You learn so much. I think that's part of leadership learning is you learn so much from others. I've served on, as we all have many boards through the years and, and committees and so forth, both locally, regionally, and nationally. And what, what I've always found that has been a leadership gift to me is just the learning of watching some of these top leaders in the country. When I was a young funeral director, I, I was sitting there with, with one of the guys who was head of SCI, one of the guys that was head of Batesville Casket company, one of the guys who was head of Wilbert Vault. I thought, oh wow. You know, I, I've just, I felt like teeny, we need tiny, and at the same time, I was learning so much from them in the way they. Handled themselves. And even though they were men, let's face it, there weren't any women back then. Right. But how they handled themselves was a good learning tool for me. That was a gift I think, that they all gave is, didn't even know they were doing it for this little young funeral director from little St. Charles, Missouri. So, yeah, sometimes. Sometimes you learn how you don't wanna be. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about bad leadership on committees. That's true. Can we. Well, I, I do have a, before we go to the bad leadership, I've got a story about of, I was in my twenties and I was speaking of being overwhelmed on this committee. Um, it was a spokesperson training committee for the NFDA, and there were all of these board members on this spokesperson, and I'm, I'm in my twenties. Um, and, and storytelling is a big thing. People love stories, right? So the media lady was just asking the hardest questions and we were training, right? It was behind the scenes, but it was on film, and they asked me the hardest question. I was sweating. I was like, I don't know how to answer this. I'm intimidated.'cause all of these major respect, I'm such respect for all these people and leaders in the room. And I answered from my heart and I really didn't answer the question.'cause I didn't know, I didn't know what to answer, right? I was like, I, I'm outta my element. I'm nervous. But I answered with this beautiful story from the heart and this one gentleman looked at me and he was like, that was a great answer. And I looked over and I was like, but I didn't really answer it, did I? And he goes. No you didn't. And I, but everybody loved the story. I just distracted him. If you, if you're confident. That's right. If you're confident, you tell a good story. Right. Just fake it sometimes, right? I fake. Hey, good for you, babe. I think that's a great, I think that's a great example of leadership right there, especially if you're, you know, I, I did this NFDA training with the camera in your face and stuff. Mm-hmm. Because I did that national spokesperson thing one time and it was really scary. And you're standing there with a camera and they're asking you really hard questions, but when you tell a story and you don't really answer that question. You actually get your, your information out better. I think that's awesome. Ellen, what about you Melissa? Well, wait, hold on. Are you saying then maybe that in, in saying what you just said, is that one way you can kind of lead your own team? Ah, if you get stuck with some bad situation you don't know how to handle it. Just revert to a story. Yeah, just revert to a story. Oh yeah. Brilliant. It's brilliant. Take it back and what, you know, teach a lesson even if it's a different lesson than needed. So. I think that's awesome. I think so. Okay. So, and a good segue into bad leadership probably. So we were talking about, well maybe there's, maybe we shouldn't talk about that. That wouldn't be nice. Yeah. Because we, we've all been on these committees, but I think it takes the courage to get on them first to start. Off with, and you know, we've got some challenges. I think women are out and about. They're 75% graduating from mortuary school. They're working hard. They might be young women, uh, getting started in their, their life. They might be getting married, they might be having children. Um, but we're not seeing as many on, uh, the national stage. We're not seeing them on the local state stage. There's a few women that have come up in the state association ranks and a few women that have. Seven, only seven in NFDA. Um, I was talking to I-C-C-F-A most recently. They've had four women on as their board chair or their president. And NFDA has had zero, uh, selected, has had two. And OGR I'd have to go back and, and do my count, but I think they've had two or three women serve on the national board. So what do you think is keeping all these talented women we know are out there from. Either staying in our profession or rising up within our profession and, and starting to voLoosenteer and get more involved in leadership, um, committees and organizations like, like you have been Ellen and, you know, I've done a little bit of it in the past, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of time commitment. So how do we help them and, and what does it take to help these, these women stay in and rise? You know, I've heard a lot of women. Say, I wanna do this, I'm ready to do this. I don't know how to do it or what, where to do it. Like, how do I even start and get involved? I think that's a big challenge in itself. Hmm. Yes, we have, I mean, I always say I'm a hat rack, you know, I wear lots of hats, um, and I'm taking 'em off constantly. Um, but I, I think there are a lot of women that are there and ready. They just don't realize. What they need to do, um, and you know how to get involved. So I think that could be a big hurdle. Um, I don't have the, all the evidence, but I've just had a lot of people say that to me. What do I need to do? So I think that's a start, and I, I'm excited because I know funeral women lead, you know, we're trying to create an opportunity to get the word out about all kinds of different opportunities. So I'm excited to do that. I think. So Alan advice, give him some advice on how to get in more involved. And, and Elisa, you go next. Yeah, so, you know, I, I think the beauty of like, it, it, looking at the big picture, I think Melissa's right when she says people don't know how, you know, I think people also wait for permission, like until someone says. You, I want you on here like in an invitation, but the invitation's there, if it's already in your heart to do it, um, I don't think you're ever ready in your own heart to, to be a leader. I think it's something that you have to analyze and grow your skillset, which means start on committees. Start by going to the your, your summit, your your wellness summit, and your leadership training. I love the platform that you're starting because that's the invitation. I think people need to say, Hey, let's. Let's draw you in, let's do this. We can do this together. Believe in yourself. I think, um, I think there's a, from what I've heard out there, there are some challenges with, you know, different, um, industry. Industry. Like what I mean by like industries, like small businesses, maybe they don't have enough staffing for somebody to go away a lot, or corporate. They may not know who to ask to get the support they need. They may not feel like they have the support. So my answer is be an advocate. Ask your teams, can I be a leader? Can I do this? I would like to, it will. And then I think there's a fear there sometimes from the leadership. I, I, I feel like when I hear these stories at different state conventions, you know, my, my advice to to individual different settings is go and ask. Explain to your leaders that this will help your actual firm. It will grow your skillset. You'll be able to bring stuff back that will help you be a better leader in your own funeral home. And so, you know, I think there's a lot of fear there on different sides to just go ahead and, and take that step. So I think. The Wellness Summit, I think, you know, chiming in on this podcast, asking questions, um, send any of us a private message asking us, you know, how can I be a leader? You know, what committee would you recommend? These are my skill sets. So I think just taking this, the step to ask the right people. So if you're listening to this, my first recommendation is to chime in, sign up for. You know, the, the funeral women lead, sign up for those emails, and then when you see something that hits you, go for it, right? Mm-hmm. And then ask for permission later. I, I, I think that all of those are all great tips. How about you, Elisa? Any ideas, thoughts? Well, that was exactly what I was gonna say. Not in those exact words, but basically, um, you know, at some point or that exact accent, right? Yeah, because you're from the north and she's from the south. Midwestern up here, eh? Got, oh yeah. Wait a minute. I just got back from the Great Lakes and everybody's, oh yeah. Oh yeah, they all sound like Canadians up in Minnesota. Let's, right. How many times did I say y'all? Did I say, did anybody keep track? I don't know. Maybe we say y'all in Missouri, I really feel like, you know, no matter how engaged or disengaged they are, um, you know, they, they have to take responsibility for their own, you know, whatever's happening. Um, whether, whether they wanna be more engaged or, or, or what within their firms, within other associations, committees. Um, but first of all, they have to be curious. Um, and if, if they're listening to this podcast, you know, they are, you know, give them reasons to, to move forward with things, and that's exactly what Funeral women lead is doing, right? Um, but right. Maybe mentor someone that's show up in, in the areas, uh, you know, to help without being asked, you know, ask questions, be curious and, and try to help somebody. Maybe that's, that started after you, or, or is, you know, a step behind you and your, your schooling or, or whatnot. Um, and, and let people see that, right. And then, then they may be asked, or, or, or, uh, invited to o other opportunities. But if they're, that's a good idea. Sitting back, waiting for, for someone else to invite them to something that might never come. So you're absoLoosetely right. Advocate for yourself. You do have to, you do have to step in it sometimes, and sometimes you step in a big pile of it and you don't know what you really got yourself into. Yeah. Then you learn, then you move, then you move on. Yeah. Right. And so ask your manager, maybe ask the owner, you know, what associations do you belong to? And if it's a state or a national association, there's always voLoosenteer opportunities. Uh, I know here at Funeral Women Lead, one of the things we're gonna be doing is expanding into committees in 26 and get really getting some fun committees ready to go. So if you're interested in being a voLoosenteer there, stay in touch with us. Let us know your interests. Just go on and you can go to info at. Funeral women lead.com and let us know your interests. And you know what we could do, I'm just thinking out loud here, but what if we found a way on our resource center to put up voLoosenteer opportunities? Yeah, so if N-N-F-D-A has has some things going on that they need some help, the Funeral Service Foundation is always looking for voLoosenteers to help score all, all the scholarships that that they give out and we give out.'cause I'm still on their board right now and it's really fun to see all the applications come in. And that's a good way to get started, is to voLoosenteer for some of these non-for-profit organizations as well. That's a good idea. It's not your own associations. Yeah. And Lisa too. I wanna say I, I'd love to invite, I think we should invite people that are outside a little bit on the edge of our profession, but still are very much partners with us, like people in the grief communities, um, you know, hospice. There, there's some other things that might really resonate besides our, just our national, I, I don't know how we can break that down, but I think there's so many different things that we could do that would improve the level of service that we give, that would improve us. Professionally and personally. So yeah, I love that idea. I do. Boy, I'm glad we thought of that. So all these nonprofits that we try to support are where we're working. Especially you Elisa, you have have that one group that you've been part of for 10 years. I mean, there's voLoosenteer opportunities and a lot of them can be online where you can serve on a committee now. That's right. Right. You don't have to actually be onsite and present and jumping into that cold water in northern Minnesota. It was cool. Although I'd like to see a picture from that. I think that would be really cool. I mean like would Okay. Massively. I lost all the, yeah, I got 10. Good years work. Yeah. There we go. And ladies, it's time for us to sign off on this, this podcast on leadership. But once again, a round of applause for Ellen McBrayer. Thank you. And, and, and now that you are secretary getting installed this fall at NFDA right in Chicago, then the next year you'll be treasurer and the next year you'll be President elect, president elect. And then next year you'll be president. So it's, uh, because of the bylaws. You've already won to go up the chairs and we'll have our first woman president in four years and we're just thrilled to die. So, okay, but let's not leave that at a, I mean, Ellen, oh, gotta be more. We have to have more. Alright, so get on those committees, get the courage to run. Talk to Ellen. She'll tell you how to do it. Yeah. And yes, do talk to Ellen and Ellen. Share your email address with everybody so we have it. You just gave us a new one today. Yes. It's Ellen n fda@joneswin.net. Our funeral home name is Jones Wind, so it's jones win.net where you can find me on Facebook, you know, uh, Ellen Wynn McBrayer. For NFDA, you know, or you can just call Jones Wind Funeral Home and ask, you know, for my contact, my email. That way, so Right. And if you can't, if you can't understand any of that because of the deep southern accent, I'm just gonna share, call us. It's not that, get ahold of us and know it's not that bad. It's not that bad. I'm kind of in between. Minnesota and Georgia. You know, I'm, I'm stuck in the middle. And Melissa, you're way out in Utah, so you like have no hardly any accent now. You don't. It's all been neutralized now. What I have been told, I need you to translate. You, you still have, she does you still have that Southern? I think so too. Hey, great to be with you and uh, everyone have a wonderful day and enjoy the rest of your summer and we will talk to you soon. Thank you for women and a funeral. Love you ladies.