Make Life Better. By Design
A podcast about design and how it can make life better, for all of us.
Make Life Better. By Design
Episode 08: Finding Common Ground
A conversation with personal training business expert and blogger Matt Robinson. Quickly finding common ground in good design as problem-solving, we discover just how close our different interests are.
Hello and welcome to the latest podcast in this series. Make Life Better by Design. Uh, my name is Kevin Drayton, um, longtime architect, complete Design fanatic. Um. And I have the, the sort of obsessive character that you need to muck about with all this equipment and so on. However, you'll know that I'm not very good with, uh, cameras and microphones and goodness, so as what, but today I have with me a man who knows more about it than I probably ever will. Um. That's because he runs his own very successful, very popular podcast. But that, of course is only, uh, a side dish, if you like, to his main activity. So I'm welcoming today. Matt Robinson. You may or may not know the name, but I said before, uh, that it's an unusual guest to have on a podcast about design, perhaps because. Matt is a personal trainer now. Personal trainers, yeah. Are 10 or penny, just as architects are. So there has to be something that sets him apart. One of the things that sets him apart is he's not only a very successful personal trainer, but he. Coaches, teachers, mentors, other personal trainers, uh, to set up and run their own businesses. And I think that's a very interesting combination to have. Quite apart from whether or not personal training fits anywhere into making life better by design. However, uh. That's the background and I hope during the course of the interview we will get to know a lot more about Matt, uh, what his thoughts and beliefs are, and if I possibly can, I'll twist his arm to get him to say, yes. It fits into making life better by design as well. That's enough of me for now. Um, welcome Matt, and perhaps we can start off with you, uh, telling us a little bit more about yourself, about the basics that I haven't covered.
Matt Robinson:Yeah. Thank you for, uh, thank you for having me, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be here. Slightly different than how you and I normally meet up. Um, but yeah, looking forward to seeing where this goes. I suppose some of the bits that are, are maybe worth sharing with the audience. In relation to the, the conversation we're having today is that my background initially before PT was strength and conditioning, so I was educated, um, with a, a strength and conditioning background, which similar to, your field, Kevin is very much detail orientated. I was very much brought up, um. You know, trying to get the best out of people that are already the best in what they do. can you take an athlete who's already performing? At the highest level and add 1% to what they can do, whether that be speed, strength, endurance, agility, any of those sorts of things. So my job was to design to, to do those things. Um, and that's. that was my first sort of step into, into what I, what I do now. I was very fortunate, um, to do a season with Manchester City doing strength and conditioning, sports science with their academy teams, some of the reserve squads as well. Um, and that, that gives you like a big insight into, yeah. The difference between what you might do in theory and what you might do in practice, which again, I imagine often the case in, in the world that, that you live in as well. You know, on paper something might look great. Done one way. In reality, there are other considerations and maybe other moving parts that we've got to consider as well. Maybe even other, other people and other opinions involved as well. that that was what I did before becoming a pt. And then when I became a pt, my mindset was very much, how do I take what I've learned working with athletes and apply that to what I think of as everyday athletes, all of us. Just like athletes, I've got requirements that we need to meet on a daily basis. An athlete has to be thought of in terms of the requirements of their sports people, general population. like to think of as what are the requirements that they need to meet to perform well in everyday life? Whether that be because they've got kids to keep up with, maybe they've got a sport that they enjoy participating in. they've just got different, different things they want to overcome, different challenges or different things that they're battling with. So job was to take what I'd learned there. Bring it into the world of pt. Um, and that's what I built my business around. I knew very early on, Kevin, that I wanted to run my own business and, and be my own boss rather than work for someone else. That's something I've been quite certain on from a young age. So that's what I did. And then through that journey, through doing that myself and, and being successful with that fairly quickly, um, I then got the opportunity to start mentoring other coaches and, and showing them what I'd done. So again. I now do has changed in terms of how I think about putting things together for other people to use and learn from and and consume. So I think looking back over the years I've been doing this 14, 15 years now. common thread is that I've always been teaching people how to do things. I've been trying to sort of lead them to a, a certain goal or down a certain path, and it's just sort of evolved along the way in terms of who my target audience kind of is and what I'm trying to help them achieve, and then maybe just differences in how I need to get them there.
Kevin:Well, that's absolutely brilliant. Um, it just goes to show what a good idea it was of mine to invite you onto the podcast. Because, well, uh, clearly you actually know what you're doing both in terms of podcast and your own business. Um, but you've prepared, because I noticed you used the word design there after about just oh, 15 seconds and I thought. It's done, his preparation, this is just what I need from a guest. So that, that's great. And yes, I think, I think there are a lot of parallels between what you do and what I perhaps used to do, um, because, um, I've taken a serial, um, approach to it whereby I did. And now I tend to talk about, whereas you are doing both at the same time. Um, multitasking. Brilliant. And you say you've been doing it for 14 or 15 years, which if anybody, um, has seen a video or photograph of you means you must have started when you were still in infant school. That's fine. No problem with that at all. Um, so yeah, I, I think we do understand what you do and one of the things I did pick up on. Was that you, you made a distinction between athletes that you dealt with, um, with strength and conditioning work and then moving to ordinary people, um, however you want to call it. But for me, that is the difference between the professional designer. Who actually does design work for a living, um, with a capital D and what I call designers with a small D, which is everybody else who does, uh, who is a designer in the sense that they make choices, take decisions, uh, and, and those are by definition design decisions for me. And they will affect the quality of their lives and other people's. What do you think about that?
Matt Robinson:Yeah, I think it's, um, I mean, maybe it helps for me to share how I. Think, you know, when you asked me to come on here and talk about design, and that's the concept and stuff, one of the things I, I first thought of is what it, what is a designer? What does a designer do? Um, think for me, the way I think about design is it's a case of problem solving. designer things, creates things, plans, things, whatever it is they need to do ultimately to solve a problem. think that's what good design does. Um. I think it's that crossroads between science and art. Maybe, you know, if you can get something that's functional but then also does. Does look the part as well. And I think about the, you know, even just the machine that I'm recording this on now and recording this on a MacBook and it's great functionally, when you close the lid and go to put it away, it also looks fantastic and feels fantastic in your hands. And you, you enjoy using the machine as well as what it, what it can actually do. Um. You know, behind me, just off camera, I've got a, I've got a barbell. a piece of metal that holds weight, but functionally it has to meet certain criteria in order for it to be useful for me. But then also I have to pick it up and think, does this feel good in my hands? Is it nice to hold? Um, because believe it or not, Kevin, you can get some barbells that feel absolutely terrible to hold and you wouldn't wanna go anywhere near them. Um, so yeah, I think for me it's like solving those problems. And, and that's, that's where I think we are all designers. We're all trying to solve problems maybe initially for ourselves and then for other people. Um, that's. That's how I like to think about design and, and maybe that's, that's sort of gives you an insight into the angle that I'll be coming from in regard to speaking about this.
Kevin:Yeah. Um, it's, it strikes me that it's a very professional attitude. Um. I mean, there are very few things in life, uh, that you should approach. I don't, I think as a dilettante, uh, particularly if you're doing it with other people, and indeed, if you are asking them to pay attention and perhaps pay money for the benefits of that, uh, yeah, it, it, it's a serious business and depending on what it is you're doing. You've got the, the capacity, the risk almost, uh, of doing harm to them rather than making life better. Um, I'm sure you've known personal trainers just as I've known architects. Uh, who have had unfortunate incidents and what what they've done has actually not made life better for people. It's made it worse. So it's a serious subject. It's not one that one takes on lightly. But at the same time, as you said, um, the phrase I use for it is only connect. Uh, the pros and the passion only connect the practicalities with the, the aesthetics, the pleasure, and it's great. You can, you can raise the quality of life to a higher level. In a way, I'm just saying That's great. Thanks. I agree with you and uh, and yes, I think that is the attitude that we should take. So in terms then of you as a professional designer, um, you talk to non-professional designers who are simply everyday people who know they want to do something to improve their. Fitness, health, endurance, strength, whatever. But then you also speak to other professionals, uh, capital D designers who are wanting to do that for other people. So how does that sort of split work for you?
Matt Robinson:I think the, um, when, when I'm, when I'm working with, let's, let's distinguish them as say, personal training clients and then. Like business coaching clients is what I tend to think of it as when I'm working with other coaches. I think the common thread that runs between both that I'm trying to do is map skills they've already got an area where they're succeeding and try and bring that over into an area where they may be, need to have a little bit more focus and attention. So if I've got someone that I meet for the first time that wants to get. In better shape, improve their health, just look after themselves a bit better. I'm fully aware that when that person comes to me, if we, if we were to, if we were to say that there are, I dunno, five or six key areas in their life, I. gonna be one or two of those areas at least, where they're currently doing a really good job. That might be that they've, they've got a really good career and the, you know, they're all in on, that they're doing very well with that. Maybe they've got a, a really nice family life and a nice setup at home, kids and things. Maybe health is one of the things that's just lagging behind a little bit. So one of the things that I am initially looking for is. Like number one, can I help them raise this up a little bit as a priority? Can we, can we sort of maybe look at this from a few different angles and help them understand why it's important to improve this? But then number two, I'm, I'm interested in the person I want to know. I'm not bothered about what they know about health or fitness. That doesn't matter.'cause most of it we probably need to un unlearn anyway. There's so much conflicting advice. What I'm actually interested in is what can I find out about this person in terms of why they're so successful? another area and maybe how are they not doing that in this area? So it might be that they're actually really well organized at work. It might be that they're really dedicated to their work. Um, it might be that when it comes to health and fitness, a little less organized. You know, they haven't got things planned out. Exercise doesn't have a slot in their diary in the same way work does. Maybe they don't do the same prep for that. of eating and their nutrition that they might do for a meeting at work. Can we use those other things that they do without thinking about it anymore? Obviously those are skills that they've learned over time and they've acquired and applied. Can I help them see those things as being not so different to the things I'm trying to get them to do? And map that skillset over into another area, and then it's, it's almost identical when you are working with personal trainers or other fitness business owners. I work with, with gym owners as well in different types of coaches, like running coaches, physios, golf coaches, same sort of thing. But the, the same principles apply in my mind. It's you've, you've done the bit that your clients are trying to. Get help with, you've nailed the health and fitness side of your life the, the sports side of your life. If you're more of a sports coach. What have you needed to do to get there, and how do we map some of those skills across into the area of what we're gonna call business? How do we develop your business using some of those underlying skills? And, and then that might also give us a clear idea of where some of the gaps are. It might be that you have got some of the, the underlying stuff in terms of you are organized when you want to be. You are someone that can plan you know what you're doing, but maybe you just don't know. you should be doing. Maybe that's the problem. It's not a, it's not the fact that you're, you're, you're disorganized or not willing to plan. It's just, I actually don't know what I should be doing and that's why I don't organize or plan. So then it helps me uncover some of those gaps. So that's the way I think about the two different sets of people I help in, in what I feel is just almost an identical way. It's just mapping skill mapping from different areas into. Into ones that are, are lagging behind a little bit. They're just opportunities that we've got to improve, improve life.
Kevin:See that's, that's really interesting. In as much the. You put such a strong emphasis on the individual. So in other words, it's not a matter of, look, here are exercises for different things. Um, you, you, you take what you want, you know, and, and go away and get on with it. Um, it is working with people as individuals. Not as some, some mass somewhere. The parallels for me with that is, is that I, I, I never set out with the podcast series to say to people, um, this is good design. That's bad design. You should have this, you should have that. All I really want people to do is to think about the choices they, they make, the decisions they take. And how that affects their lives because it's making their lives better that we're really trying to do. And I suppose you've made me think, which is good. You've made me think that an analogy with your now working with groups of of other trainers, um. Is is where the sort of, the bigger, the bigger picture of, um, of design comes in, where you're, you aren't necessarily able to work one-to-one with that individual. You've got to broaden it a bit. And there are some overriding principles, um, that you know, that you can, you can rely on as a, as a starting point, uh, to map these more specifics onto. I think that's really, really good. So, yeah, I mean, you more or less said it, but I'll ask the direct question. Now you think of yourself as a designer, then.
Matt Robinson:Yeah. Yeah, I do. I, I've, I've struggled to see a world in which people can't think of themselves as a designer without being, uh, too blunt there's someone that's just sort of given up and decided that they don't want to progress anymore. I feel that. If you are the type of person that, that wants to enjoy life, that wants to, you know, push yourself, pursue things, um, show up as your best, feel like the only way to do that is through designing whether that be a life that you want to live, uh, a routine that you want to follow. You know, we, we all need structure and things like that. We all need things around us that allow us to turn up the way we want to turn up. And again, all those things are things that we designed. Whether that be something that you just think of in your head, or whether it be that you've got a bit more of a, an elaborate plan for. you know, I, I don't see how you can avoid. if you've got any intention of, of showing up, doing your best and improving along the way. I just, I just, I don't, I can't, can't fathom seeing yourself as a, as a designer, Kevin, even if that's not the terminology you would use. You might call yourself something else. Like you say, for me, probably more the way I would've de described it beforehand is maybe more of a problem solver. Um, but I, I feel that they're just one and the same.
Kevin:I, I, I cannot agree more. Um, I almost need to find some area where we're gonna disagree. I think. Uh, and I'll, and I'll manage it before we finish. No doubt. However, there is one sort of, um, one question that, that fascinates me. Um, obviously you don't go out and pick people off the streets and say to them, right, you need some personal training or whatever. People will come to you in the, in the first instance. So what I'm meaning is, is you, you've talked about people who've given up. Uh, you know, it's just, they've given up. Alright? That's very sad. But there's not a lot you can do immediately about that. You've, you've got to work with the people that will come to you. Do you ever get someone who's had a revelation at a certain age and stage of their lives where they think. I'm not really physically in a state to the last another, whatever, 30, 40 years. Um, can I do anything about it? And if you do get someone like that, if, is it too easy? To put'em off and to just get'em to say, oh no, I can't, I can't be doing with this. No, I'll just go back to being slob, couch potato, whatever you wanna call it.
Matt Robinson:You do get different versions of that. So I remember the first ever client that I signed up, I was walking around the gym on a Saturday afternoon. thinking there, Kevin, was that none of the other PTs worked a Saturday. So if I'm the only guy in the building, I increase my chances of bumping into someone which worked So. Guy comes up to me, looks a bit lost, start chatting to him, just in general, just having a chat with a guy in the gym he sort of notices that I'm a PT and goes, I've just this week been diagnosed as pre-diabetic. I need some help. So you get instances like that where it's very clear and obvious someone's been given a diagnosis and. You need to sit down and, and help them out and, and get working with that. The other side that you sometimes run into that, that I came across a number of times from sort of my commercial gym career, I was in a commercial gym for nine years, is you get people that reach a stage in life where they're, they're going through a bit of like an identity shift. I've had incidences where people come to me. At the moment at which they're about to retire and they see it as, you know, some people are actually really, really self-aware and they say, I'm about to retire. I don't know who I am without my job title and my work. I need to find the next version of me, and I know that something that might help me do that is by getting into a routine with exercise and actually prioritizing my health a bit more. No, prioritizing my health important. It's something I should do. But actually the thing that's really. Getting to me is this the fact that, you know, I'm no longer account manager, an accountant a this or that, or the other that I, I'm gonna be missing a piece there. And you get a similar thing with, uh, with parents. Um, more typically moms. Than dads, but moms that have got kids that have flown the nest, they've reached university age and it's like, right, I don't know what I'm gonna do with myself now. I've now actually got the time for myself to think about myself and, and now I'm actually thinking longer term in terms of I want to be in a fit and healthy state next time round so that when the next batch of little children come along, which will hopefully be grandkids. I've got the, the energy and the, the strength and stuff that I know I'm gonna need. be the type of grandparent I want to be. you do reach, you do come across some like really different, um, different ways that that plays out. And then I suppose going back to your question in terms of. Like, almost like not putting them off. think the bit that I've always been keen on is like really understanding that underlying factor. So it's like, yeah, want to improve your health, but actually what's the key thing here? And that's where someone might talk about like their identity and, and stuff like that. Like that, that helps get a lot more buy-in. But then I think more importantly than that is just meeting the person where they're at. It's like, you've not done this before. You're 60 years old. This is your first time walking in a gym. This is your first time undertaking some exercise, and I'll be. You know, I'll, I'll sit across from that person. We'll be down in the cafe, probably having a coffee or something together. I'm like, we're not walking up there tomorrow and lifting some weights and doing this, that, and the other. That's not where we're starting. You see that quiet corner over there that no one goes into? We're gonna go over there and we're gonna. Stretch, and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that. And I'm gonna use that time, Kevin, to actually just get to know them better. I'd spoke earlier about the importance of understanding the person. That's actually, I find that a lot easier to do when someone is exercising and stuff. a little tip for anyone out there. I've noticed over the years it's really difficult for people to lie when they're outta breath. So if ever I want a really truthful statement from someone. Get them outta breath first and then ask them the question. That's a good
Kevin:Wow. Wow.
Matt Robinson:a good little.
Kevin:Now that's a, that's a brilliant trade secret to take.
Matt Robinson:Um, but yeah, it's just, it's just trying to take it steady and almost be like, look, I understand that you want to get to that end result yesterday. Um, this is something you've put off for quite a while. doesn't mean we suddenly need to rush. We can, we can take our time with it. And if we're in a position where speeding up makes sense, we'll speed up. But at sooner rules need to speed up rather than doing too much and find ourselves needing to slow down again. That's something I've learned the hard way sometimes over the years you start off with a client, all guns blazing, and then four weeks in they vanish and you're like, where's that person gone? It's like they've, they've gone. Um, and it's like. You know, when you reflect on it, you probably think probably just expected a bit too much, too soon. Um, and you've also got to remember that although they're coming to you saying, this is important to me, this is something I want to prioritize. The work I do with someone is still only one of those five or six key areas they might have in their life, and there are certain things that are always gonna come as a higher priority than the thing that I'm doing with them, and I have to accept that their family's always gonna come that bit higher. Their work is potentially always gonna become higher than that as well. If something comes up at work, if something comes up at home, they're going to prioritize that. And that's okay. So you have got to bear those things in mind, but bring the, bring the person into that conversation and make them aware when you do that, that will slow us down. That's okay. That's not a problem. But I want us to be clear around the expectations. want this kind of result, I'm gonna need this amount of input from you. If you can't give me that level of input, that result's achievable. It's just gonna take a bit longer. Or maybe you don't actually want that result. You want something slightly different that allows you more flexibility with how you approach it. trying to that balance between expectations, reality, what they're willing to put in, what they're expecting to get out, and, and over time you, you learn to get better at that and just be a bit more upfront with people about it.
Kevin:Yes, I am sure people are understanding now that, um, you are not a run of the mill brainer. Uh, there's a lot more going on, uh, between your ears, uh, than many of, many of the well coaches and trainers that I've dealt with over the years. Um, but it does sort of bring up one thing. Um, do you find there is a special category of people. Who need, who need their, their exercise, their fitness, their whatever it be designing in a particular way because whereas they, they, they love playing sport. They're really competitive. Um, they hate training. The idea of training for no benefit other than to be able to stop at the end of it. Um. That, that, that must be difficult, isn't it?
Matt Robinson:It's for me. I think when, when that, that occurs, something that I always bear in mind is the work that they do with me. Again, I, I think I'm trying to almost visualize in my head what someone's order of priorities are, and it's like, even though they're coming to me to, to, to do exercise to help with their sport, their sport is still the higher priority. So I'm not thinking in terms of. The training that someone does with me is the most important physical output they have that week. It's actually sport they're gonna play this week is their number one form of activity. That's the main thing that their week should be built around. Making sure that they can do that and that they're gonna turn up to that, which is why I quite often ask. Kevin, are you playing tennis this week? Have you played tennis at the weekend? And if I feel necessary, I will make adjustments to what we are about to do based on the answer you give me. I'll already have an idea of, you know, I know when you play, I know when you don't play. I know what we can do and what we maybe need to avoid to work around that. Um,
Kevin:Yeah. Did I, did I mention that I'm running a marathon, um, on, on Sunday? No. Did I not?
Matt Robinson:I might have needed it. I'm good, Kevin, but I might need a bit more notice than that. so yeah, I think it's just
Kevin:Oh, no, no. I, Matt, it's not that. I was just thinking you could take it easy. Are you, uh, with me on the following Monday? That's all.
Matt Robinson:so, I think it's just taking all, all those types of things into account and then accepting the it, especially if someone's playing sport. It's, it's not necessarily that you're, you're trying to treat them like an athlete or something like that. Where my head goes is want this person to be able to play this sport for as long as possible. if they want to play for another 10 years, let's approach it. With that mindset, what would we need to be doing today to make sure that Kevin can keep playing tennis for the next 10 years? The other approach, which is what you do in strength and conditioning, is how do I make this athlete fantastic today? And they've got a much shorter career, obviously. And maybe you're not as mindful about where that person's gonna be at when they're 50 or 60. We see what happens to athletes later on in life. They often break down, don't they? And, and maybe some of that is the approach earlier on, whereas when I'm working with people, I'm thinking, I, I, I hope this person's gonna live to a hundred, and I hope that they still play in their sport. Into the latter stages of life and they've got that sort of, um, longevity with it and they enjoy it. And that's actually one of the things that keeps them going. It's one of the things that, that, you know, that gets them outta bed in the morning, that, that still got that social aspect. All these other things that we don't often think of regarding health. It's too easy for someone like me that's grown up in a gym to just think, lift weights and eat chicken. like, no, it's not. That is it. That's kind of. The smallest part of it, and it's, it's all these other things. So again, and that's why, that's why I like people to prioritize their sport over what they do with me. When you meet up with me. Yeah. We have a bit of a chat. We have a laugh along the way. Actually, when you go and play your sport, that's where a lot of your social circle is. Not just when you play, but outside of when you play. There's so many other boxes being ticked regarding health that you just don't get in a. Gym session necessarily, unless you're someone that goes to the gym and spends three hours there.'cause you're speaking to so many people. So yeah, I think that that's how I try and weigh, weigh those things up and, and balance them out a bit.
Kevin:Yes, it's disturbing, uh, how much you've obviously understood about people through, uh, through the work you do. But, uh, yeah, I'll bear that in mind. Right. I'm desperately trying to drag this back a little bit more to, um, to get some design element into it. And this, this may appear as a frivolous question, and if the answer is just, Nope, not at all, that's fine. But do you ever see, um. Talking to people about things like, uh, hit clothing, um, um, the condi, you know, the, the room and so on in which they may be training, exercising, um, all that sort of thing. Uh, do you, do you, do you get much involved in that or, uh, or, or is that really for them to sort out.
Matt Robinson:Yeah, not, not so much. It's not really what I get involved in that, where I get more involved in what I would consider design is trying to help people build. Structure in their life, in their day, especially with the, the other coaches that I work alongside, I'll let them worry about the nuances of kit and things like that, stuff they want to use when it comes to my clients, if they need a bit of kit, as you know Kevin, I often just send it to them. I go, here's your kit. Send that off to you. Um. The, here's what I'm gonna want you to use. Let's, let's crack on. Hopefully it meets your strict criteria for, uh, being, being both functional and easy on the eye and not too bright, of course. Um, so yeah, I, I suppose that's, that's where I, where, where I think about it. The, the only, the only area where I would say I'm, I'm quite conscious of it myself, is like through my, through my own training, through my own exercise. I feel that the clothes that you wear when you exercise, I do think makes a difference. Um, so for example, there's like only one, like the shorts that I'm wearing now, I wear 98% of my life. I've got like the same pair of shorts four times. Um. they're just designed in such a way that I can do anything and everything in them. Um, and it's not just the fact that they're comfortable to wear and this, that and the other, but in terms of washing them and getting them dry and not needing to iron them and all those other things like the design that's gone into this pair of shorts, you can tell it's someone that actually exercises even down to where the zip is placed. Kevin, I can lie down on the floor and the zip doesn't. Dig into my backside. Um, small things like that that you notice. So suppose those are the bits of design that I pick up on more just through like if, if I'm gonna be, if I'm gonna be exercising and demonstrating exercise all day, I want to be comfortable. I want to feel like I'm in a functional set of clothes. Um, again, down to the footwear I wear, I wear a certain footwear for a specific reason. so yeah, I think that's where, where I probably go more with the design side of things.
Kevin:Yeah. And I think that's perfectly reasonable. Excuse me. And, uh, it, it, it would be interesting to people hear that and understand that. Um, yeah, I think Kitty is very, uh, very important. Um, um, one of the things I was sort of linking up two or three things here. Um, the changes in lifestyle because nowadays, uh, it's on the one, it's so easy, uh, to buy stuff off the internet and at the same time, it's becoming more difficult to go and investigate kit in the flesh in shops because high streets are closing down and stories you might be left without, there are not what they might be. Um, that does actually mean that I think punters clients call'em what you like, do need to be made aware of the fact that yeah, what you, what you wear when you train can make an enormous difference and the sort of things they need to look out for. I do speak from very strong personal experience. I have huge problems with shorts. Partly because I am a fat bugger, but also because I've got, you know, I've got a high rise as they call it in the, in the tailoring business. Um, I need to have pockets if I'm gonna be playing tennis, which I don't, if I'm ordinary training, um, et cetera, et cetera, and try to get all those things matched up when all you've got is an image on a screen is really difficult, but good. Uh, good shops for kit with knowledgeable people are very few and far between, as far as I'm concerned. However, that isn't, that's just me having a, a bit of a rant. But what I was gonna say to you was, uh, I mentioned the internet there and I know that on your website, um, you do pick up quite a bit on, uh, AI and what that might mean for your profession. But the other thing of course, is, is that with the growth we've had in social media and ways of people self-publishing what they think they know, um, it's very easy for somebody to set up a YouTube channel as a trainer, um, without knowing anything particularly about their clients or whoever's watching it. What, what, what are your thoughts about that sort of development?
Matt Robinson:I think overall I'm, I'm quite an optimistic person, and I think the fact that we can self-publish, we can share ideas, I think that overall it's a net positive. Uh, something I do came to the table a little bit late. I, I was someone that was never gonna jump on this stuff early. I, I never felt like. I was in a position to share ideas and things. It was like I was just busy doing and building up a body of work. And I think this is where maybe there's a bit of, um, a crossover that, that maybe some people don't go through, is that when I, when I came and started sharing more publicly who I am and what I do, I'd already had like. A decade plus experience. Um, whereas as you said, Kevin, you've got the opposite as well, where people can just open up a YouTube channel or whatever having never actually worked with a client, um, and start sharing things. And, know, I, I would, I would say that, or I would hope that, you know, 90, 90% of people that do that never actually get anywhere and never a massive following, however. It, it, it is clear through, through Instagram and other places. Instagram's primarily where I spend my time on social media. it is clear through some of the stuff that you see on there. There are people that have amassed large followings who quite clearly do not have a clue. What they're doing, why they're doing it, they just look a certain way. I think that's why it's particularly bad in my industry is'cause it's such an aesthetic industry in, in that sense, if you look the part, then you can kind of blog it a little bit. I think certain people have managed to do that and build a career off the back of that. You do have to be a bit careful of that. Um, it's not necessarily that people have gone and studied this stuff. You can qualify as a PT Kevin in six weeks. Um, and do it all online. It's, it's a sort of an unregulated body. Um, I took a different route. I went to university for three years and I went down the strength and conditioning route and then went and got some practical experience before ever walking into a gym and working with a human that was gonna pay me any money. Um, and I trained all my friends, all my family along the way. I'd, I'd done. much as I could for free before going, right. Let's turn this into a little business now. Um, so yeah, I think the self-publishing stuff you do have to be careful with. And I do think, just going back,'cause you mentioned ai, the thing that I keep bringing up. for my industry regarding AI is if we kind of ignore all the techno technology that's gonna be affected, like the technological advancements that are gonna come, most of those we probably can't even really predict just'cause it's gonna move so fast. on a human level, what I think we need to be really wary of,'cause it's already at a level that I feel is fairly low, is the, the impact it's gonna have on trust. Um, I feel that. People using social media, using the internet, looking for advice, looking for support, looking for professionals, practitioners, the, the fact that there's gonna be so much stuff out there that's maybe written by AI itself or by someone that's using AI that doesn't actually know the subject matter going to lend itself to people like I don't trust most things that I see anymore. Um. And the reason I speak about that in my industry is that there's a narrative where people feel like you can get qualified, you can go online, you can post some pictures of yourself, you can film your workouts, and people will come to you as clients. And it's like, that doesn't really work. Like one or two of you might do okay off that, but I think that the success rate of that is gonna go through the floor eventually. because if you've never been in a gym before, you'll be able to open up a computer and create some AI video of someone training in the gym and claim that it's you. And then use that same AI to write some training programs and some nutrition plans and start selling that to unknowing audiences. So there's all these, there's all these things that are gonna come into play that I think boil down to how do we build trust in a world where it's going to be severely lacking? that's why I'm actually saying to a lot of trainers and coaches now, especially those that already have a, in person. down on that, double down on the human bit. Go and be a human being to other human beings. Go and be that trustworthy resource. Go and be that person that's reliable, that turns up and they, they don't even bother looking at any of that stuff online'cause they just know that they've got you. Um, like be that. And, and, and I think those are gonna be the, the ones that win. Um, and. use some of this technology to help them. Of course, I, I use it almost every day, understanding where these things fit in and where things are gonna go. So, yeah. I hope that answered your question. I've completely forgot what you, what you asked me, Kevin.
Kevin:Oh, that, that's, that's fine. You know, I, there's nothing I like more than somebody who feels passionate about something rabbiting on about it. I think that's great. Uh, I do a lot of it myself. And uh, and as I was thinking just then as you were speaking, I knew. I knew you'd be a good guest because obviously you think very much like me, however, now I'm very grateful for your time, Matt, and uh, I'm conscious, uh, looking at a clock somewhere. Um, this has gone on probably longer than I thought it would. However, I'm not gonna let you go without my end it with all podcast, uh, conversation questions. Which is if you had the opportunity to change one thing, something about modern life or society, what would it be and why? I.
Matt Robinson:This, this could be the opening of a can of worms here, Kevin.'cause this could be a podcast in itself. But would, I would completely start again with education. That would be my, thing. That would be the thing. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know what, what it was or what it is that we, we do or need to do, but I'm, I'm a dad of two young children. I've got a 3-year-old and an 8-year-old at the time of recording. Um, obviously I've been through the education system myself, that that's the, i, I, I just feel that as someone that really, um, buys into lifelong learning and. Understanding that learning itself is a skill. It's like a meta skill that unlocks other skills. If you know how to learn, you can learn anything, is the way I view it. But we don't actually get taught how to learn. We get taught how to recite things and memorize things and you know, I just feel that the education system that we've got at the moment, it's very outdated. Does it serve a purpose? We don't assess young people in a way that actually makes sense for the life that they're gonna live. quite frankly, going back to what we just mentioned a minute ago about ai, we're actually preparing children for a world that's not going to exist in the next few years. which is something I'm very conscious of as a dad. It's like, how, how can I fill some of those gaps? How can I get them understanding things using certain tools and trying to predict where things might go? Um, and then just linking back into my profession. You know, remembering what, what I can from school and again, seeing what my kids get exposed to. feel like we completely undervalue, um, physical activity at school. You know, PE always takes a backseat. It gets knocked further and further down the line. We end up with non-competitive sports days. We end up with, you know. Just a, just a lack of how to look after yourself and all these things. So I just think for me it would be, it would be that education piece, regardless of the subject matter that it's linked to, it's do we educate young people? So that as they grow up, they've got a set of tools that aren't necessarily subject specific knowledge, like when was World War ii? It kind of doesn't matter. It's more like, how would you go and find out when World War II happened? How would you go and get that knowledge? How would you go and find it from a trustworthy source? Again, going back to. We're potentially going into a world where trust and what we can trust might be weighing in a little bit. Um, I, I feel that we, we need to be teaching almost like these meta skills that then allow you to go and acquire the ones that you need for the specific things you are interested in.
Kevin:Well, there we're, you've done it again. I couldn't agree more. Um. The trend in recent years, even in higher education, for students to imagine that because they may be paying a check for tutorial fees and that buys them a degree or whatever, uh, and it, it's a horrible thing to see. It's a horrible thing to know what it might do to the world, uh, and have so little opportunity to do anything about it. Um, we've strayed into some highly serious waters there, which is no bad thing at all. But it wasn't where I thought we were necessarily gonna go with the, uh, with the conversation. Uh, but I tell you, it's been very, very stimulating for me, and I hope it is, has been for, for, for listeners. I have absolutely no doubt that the three people I can think of who may actually get to listen to this podcast will think, gosh, if I need a bit of, uh, personal training advice, I know who I am to go to. Um, just, just, just finish off, Matt, is, are you interested in still talking to new potential clients or whatever? And if so, what's the best way for them to make contact with you?
Matt Robinson:Um, I'm not necessarily taking on more personal training clients, Kevin, um, believe it or not, I took on my last client five years ago and that happened to be you. Um, so, yeah. Um, but, but having said that, will always. Offer a bit of help if someone needs it. You know, if someone comes to me and says, can you gimme some advice on this? Can you gimme some advice on that? Of course, I'm, I'm the type of person that's always willing, um, to share that information. So if, if someone does want to come and find me, best place to do so is on Instagram. Uh, my handle is at Matt Robinson, pt, one word. No funny. Characters or anything like that. Do also have my website, matt robinson coaching.com. You can contact me through there. Um, but yeah, if you've got any questions or anything, or if you just wanna see any of the, stuff that I'm sharing or little rants that I'm having on there, then go for it. Feel free to, uh, indulge in, you know, in your own time.
Kevin:That's, that's terrific, Matt. Um, one of my hopes is that with, with social media allowing people to make contact at a distance, people they might not otherwise speak to. There is an opportunity to build, uh, a community of, uh, like-minded people. When I say like-minded, I don't mean those who agree on everything. I mean those who have a willingness. Uh, to look at situations and to ask whether the way they're handled is correct, is the best way. Could we do better? Could we design things better to make life better? Um, I, I couldn't have had a better guest, uh, than you, I don't think. At this stage of what I'm doing and I hope it's not been too, too boring and too time consuming for you. Thank you very much again, Matt. And um, you've given the game away. Uh, yes you do train me and Gods it been five years frightening. So I shall see you again, uh, probably tomorrow.
Matt Robinson:You will. You will. It's been an absolute blast, Kevin. Thank you for having me.
Kevin:Thanks very much, Matt. Bye now.