Designing life: Chemistry and Leadership

My guest for this episode believes that people are the important ingredient in successful enterprises. He also happens to be a chemistry graduate and vociferous advocate for making things i.e. manufacturing.

Dean Morgan talks us through his road to believing that people and how you treat them is the key to making life better. His life in chemistry, manufacturing and rugby (yes, rugby!) is the story of a life where design, perhaps unknowingly, has underpinned success.

Transcript

Kevin 0:10

Hello and welcome once again to another episode of Make Life Better by Design With me, Kevin Drayton. This week, I'm very pleased to say I have a special guest someone who has been a friend for a long time actually introduced through the rugby field. He's a huge rugby fan, which as far as I'm concerned, that's all he needs to be, but I've come to understand that there's a lot more to him. than Dean Morgan, uh, a proud Welshman is I suppose by profession, a chemist, but he's also realised over the years that he's got an aptitude for business as well. And combines the mysteries of chemistry, I have to admit, I've never understood chemistry at all with, a very successful business life. Now he's, I hope, going to talk a little bit about how he got into chemistry and how that's directed a lot of his life. But I want to go beyond that as well. Because I don't understand chemistry, I struggle to understand how it can make life better for people, but I'm sure I'm gonna be educated on that. So it's welcome, Dean. I've given you a poor introduction. Do you wanna tell us a bit more about yourself, first of all?

Dean 1:45

Thanks Kevin. And I think just to put some datelines on things, I think we've known each other now for about 27 years, is when we first met up together at the Laund Hill rugby part of, as was then Huddersfield, YMCA. Where we shared the the red and black jerseys and and have sported their ties ever since. So a little bit in terms of background. So for me, I was brought up in a small village about 20 miles north of Swansea in the upper Swansea Valley. And our village was actually in the very bottom part of the Brecon Beacons National Park. So in the heart of country. And I think from my point of view I was always interested in generally more science-based knowledge, reading rather than arts, though I did actually used to and occasionally still dabble in drawing bird life.

Kevin 2:59

Actually, that's a new one for me straight away today.

Dean 3:03

And that came through at about seven or eight years because, a friend was a couple of years older than me and was a very good artist at the age of 10, and we ended up in a bit of a cluster, about four or five of us all drawing. So that's something that I occasionally drop into. But that's by the, by. So more science leaning, I would say. And I would be particularly when I got to O Levels with very little work managed to scrape my way through, through passing everything except for Latin, because I had some aspirational view of maybe becoming a doctor and some craziness at the age of 13 or 14, that Latin would be handy, but I learned fairly quickly that Latin wasn't particularly helpful. A lovely teacher named Mr. Price- delightful man, but he could never actually get me through to understanding how to conjugate Latin.

Kevin 4:19

It sounds to me as though your experience with Latin was a bit like my experience with chemistry, but.

Dean 4:27

And it's interesting because I went to a comprehensive school called, which is the field of the oak tree. And it was the first ever comprehensive school in Wales, and the third in the whole of the United Kingdom. 1963, if I think I'm right. If I recall. And in those days it was a more, let's call it a challenging school environment than I think it would be called today. So you were promoted if you did well up to the upper classes. I only moved down in one subject and that was chemistry.

Kevin 5:14

Really!

Dean 5:16

And why was that? Because in the, A stream at the time, dear Mr. Protheroe, who was not a chemist, he was a science person, but he was a physicist. It was gobbledygook coming out his mouth. And I was demoted to the B set with the princely score in the examination of 55 marks. And that got me sent down fortunately to doctor as he was a doctor of chemistry. Dr. Evans, who then lit the subject up for me. I found the true meaning of chemistry and it went on from there.

Kevin 6:04

I think that's fascinating because the difference that the quality of a teacher in a subject makes to kids that's what we were is unbelievable. And anybody that downplays or denigrates teachers. Has obviously never been to school because it's the same for me now. Although I couldn't make head andnot tail chemistry, it flipped over for me. And physics, I had some fantastic physics teachers and I've got a passion for physics right through to today. At the end of everything, it's just how things work physically. And for my job as an architect, it was quite helpful.

Dean 6:52

I think also from a from my experience, particularly in chemistry it also gave me some guidance really in terms of how subjects can be learned, how lessons can turn into not a hardship, but an actual pleasure because you're actually understanding what's happening. And he had a particular way of identifying capability in the subject and would spend the time to nurture it, which certainly Mr. Protheroe certainly didn't have those qualities. So for me, it became a subject that I really got to love and understand because it wasn't a subject that I had to work at. And then from going through to A level and then to university. I studied at Queen Mary College in University of London. And that's where the subject really came to life. Firstly, valley Boy, a national park as a village. Going to London then just lit a fuse to me because I absolutely loved London. I still get excited if I get on the train to London today. And I explored I know London in a very different way, I think to a lot of people. Because we used buses because buses are the best way to get around London'cause you can actually see where you're going. You might get there quicker by tube, but you certainly dunno where you are despite what the London tube map tells you. So I got into a situation where I was tutored at a time when it wasn't really classed as environmental. And the professor that I worked under did a lot of the pioneering work for the US Air Force on ozone depletion. So part of my degree was in environmental chemistry before it had the environmental bit attached to it. So it's something that I've been involved with for quite a while.

Kevin 9:15

Now that's the, that's great that, that really gives us a clear picture, I think of how you got to the point of Yeah I'm a chemist now. But certainly for me I've known you as much as a businessman, as a, as I have a chemist. And I wonder how that sort of, not transition, but how that aspect or element of your education came through.

Dean 9:46

If I look back and if I look to my university time as a starting point, possibly because obviously actively part of the rugby club. I became the captain of the rugby in my third year. So clearly my disposition, my demeanour, how I am I'm somebody that's pretty focused in getting stuff done, getting stuff organised. And I'd say also I'm somebody that naturally tends to pull groups together. Whether it's socially or whether it's through play or whether it's through work I tend to be somebody that engages with making it as good an experience as possible. People hear from me quite frequently: this is not a rehearsal. And it's important that is really a front of most things that I do. But when I then went to my first job, i, my first job was working for a quite a unique company at the time in the pharmaceutical industry called the Welcome Foundation and the job was there was six jobs, in fact as shift chemists. But there were only four jobs that would come around. And the shift jobs would only be offered at the end of a six month training probation. And I love a challenge and I love a project. So that was the first example of being involved in a works situation. I'd worked, during my A Levels my dad always was in manufacturing and my dad worked from 19 70, 71 when I would've been about 10 or 11 at the Inco Nickel Refinery in, in South Wales. And my dad managed to get me a job in the labs there while I was actually going through my studies at university. That was a great period for me because it taught me immediately that I did not want to work in a lab because the more time I used to spend was out in the factory collecting the samples and getting out. And that started my love for manufacturing. Every job that I've been involved with from day one to now has always been making things.

Kevin 12:55

That's great. And although I'd be quite happy to sit here for another couple of hours, really just running through your autobiography, I think I ought to drag us back a little bit towards the main subject matter of making life better by design. And do you, let's just start this section off. Do you ever think about what you do, your work as being about making life better for whoever in, in whatever sort of way?

Dean 13:29

The prime thing for me, and the biggest thing that I'm motivated by is whatever skills know-how knowledge capabilities I have, my, my natural instinct is to share and I get more pleasure seeing people working for me develop over a number of years and it's really a great pleasure to see now 20 and 30 years that I'm still in contact with a wide range of people that are in some very senior positions now in international companies. And I get more pleasure out of that than I do for anything that I do personally. So I think for me it's more about what, how do I contribute here? How do I add value? But the starting point for me is always through people, because I can have the best kit, I can have the best factory, I can have the best situation, but without the people, it's not gonna do anything. So that's tended to be my lead approach to most of my life. I'd say it's always about the people.

Kevin 14:48

Okay. That's understandable and admirable. But let's just try. I think a lot of people I say a lot of people, I was gonna say a lot of people who listen to this podcast, I don't think many do, but it doesn't matter many people generally do struggle to understand how design comes into other areas of life other than sitting down with a pencil and making something look pretty, which to me is not that important. So if you take the industries that you've been in, the industry that you're in now, do you see what you produce having been designed, I mean it has, but ask how you see that and specifically do you ever think in terms of, okay, look, we've got a range of, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 products here. This particular one would be ideal for, it could make such and such better for. Do you ever see things in those terms?

Dean 15:56

Yeah, I think I can give a few different examples on that. So if we go back to the early eighties and I'll take us back to a time, a challenging time in the early eighties when the first AIDS epidemic broke Welcome was the only company in the world that had development products in the pipeline towards a potential treatment for AIDS at the time. I eventually went on over a period of two to three years to be responsible for two of the six stages of the process that ultimately became one of the offshoot products, a product that many people will use even today called Zovirax for cold sores, part of the herpes simplex class. Now, through that experience, I got active training by the FDA. So I am, I can audit at an FDA standard. What does that mean? What the FDA did is that because we're the only company with the capabilities of producing the product, we had a nine month period to launch to market, or they would take the formulation away. That's how. So a lot of design work had to be done between making the active. To a finished product that could be used within a dose. We had to generate a whole host of different engineering equipment, techniques to actually formulate the product to a finished article. And the learning curve in that period was very rapid and very active. Now, all of that, now you're combining quality with manufacturing, with raw material, sourcing. All of that is a design process because you are working towards an end result of some purpose. Another example I would give from that time as well would be we would import a resin from South America blow dart poison. We would extract that is used as a muscle relaxant for abdominal surgery. And similar part of the design process was. There was a lot of side effects with that. Not least the fact that the blow dart poison is meant to stop the heart of the animal, and that's what it does. However, design processes meant that we created a synthetic version of this, a very complex manufacturing process, but also led to we had to change our responses to first aid. Because if you've got a scratch and got this material, you had literally two and a half minutes to get somebody onto a ventilator. So we had to design a whole operating process around just handling a different material. And if I then move forward to the role that I'm in now my manufacturing experience goes into building motor homes, working with Haribo on making jelly babies, raw materials, people, process, and a product at the back end. The rules are similar, but the processes of the design requirements at each stage is totally different, and it's how you bring those together. And the products that we're involved in now is in building chemicals. And what are they doing now? Is helping to build houses more cost effectively, improving insulation properties, allowing different building materials, increasing recycled content. Across the board and through to creating fairly unique materials from sealants and from roofing membranes thousands of different application areas from the same core chemistry.

Kevin 20:39

That I think is immediately evident that you are, as I described them, you are a designer with a capital DI call designers with a capital D people who are creating stuff from scratch almost. And everybody else is a designer with a small D because as consumers just ordinary citizens, you are always making choices and decisions about things, which is essentially what Designers do. You make choices, take decisions. So you are very definitely a capital D designer for me, but do you ever actually think of yourself in those terms?

Dean 21:24

Not until you presented in that way that, that, that sort of makes some sense with regard to, to my, certainly my working career over, 45 years. I would tend, however, to see myself as a facilitator. I'm the oil in the engine. I'm there to make everyone else's job better and more effective. That's how, that's my default of what I see and understand. And to look at fairly complex situations, and I think that, and this is design, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a big D, but it's about taking situations and trying to simplify the understanding of what's going on so then you can build up the solutions against it. I think that's a form of design. Whether it's looking at processes, whether it's looking at recycling, whether it's looking at cost benefits, whether it's looking at making it easier to manufacture, that may be from either introducing automation, or sometimes it may be a manual process for a very good reason, but how do we make that process more effective in itself? Avoiding things like repetitive strain injury to people, what, whatever it might be.

Kevin 22:51

Yeah, absolutely. But this is great for me because you clearly think very widely about where improvement can be made, how things can be made better. Which, okay, just for my purposes, I call that design, that's what it's about. I should also say at this point that if if listeners can hear a rumbling in the background, that's because I didn't do a very good job of designing an extract system in the building which is now rattling something. It'll stop soon. I hope. That's fantastic. And and this is exactly how I hoped it would go because the more that people like you can demonstrate how what people don't think of traditionally as designers are actually making a difference, making life better by the work that they do, the way that they approach things is, is really great. Now, I know although you've, you have, and you have had. Very high powered jobs. It's not the only thing you do. You have a lot, you have other interests as well, the most obvious being, of course, um, the funny shaped ball.

Dean 24:15

Yeah. Look I've you, you have to realise that I grew up in a part of Wales where obviously it is the national sport, but people find it rather strange when I describe that when we played rugby in Wales when we were in school, if we were caught playing football, we got detention. So that's how the sport was seen. So it was the full winter sport, cricket in the summer only. And I was playing competitive seven aside rugby from the age of six, and I managed to keep playing until I was 54, about my estimate, about 700 games later. And I've got the battle scars to, to show it with knees that won't work too well anymore.

Kevin 25:05

But it's not as if it was a case of: you've gotta do it, you've gotta do it, and you did it with gritted teeth. You've obviously got a love for the game.

Dean 25:16

I it still hurts me now today after not playing for maybe 12 seasons that I can't play. I miss the it's not just the camaraderie that you have, whether it's training or a game every week, I actually miss the physical contact part of it. And, rugby Union is a, is also a bit of a chess game and trying to work out how to beat the opposition or not to lose against the opposition is part of the interest I've always had with the sport. And I've turned my hand to squash and tennis and various others over the years. Yeah, but for me, rugby is a pretty pure sport. And and that, that's actually as my wife Jackie would say you are a rugby player. You are the rugby player when I first met you. And and so it will always continue.

Kevin 26:20

I'm hoping at some time to make a podcast specifically on what I see as. How rugby can make life better. Particularly obviously for for young people getting into it for the first time, I just think that it offers so much if they're introduced to it in the right way, and it can be one, a lifelong passion, but two, it can lead to friendships, international friendships that go on for a lifetime, which has got to be a good thing.

Dean 26:59

I'm a director of the Laund Hill Community club at Huddersfield. And one of the greatest successes that we've had, particularly over the last four years is that both in football and rugby we have over 500 children playing at the club each weekend. That introduces several things. All my greatest friends, bar a handful are people that I've played rugby with. Good friends that we met with just recently. Where godparents to their children and vice versa. So it's in the blood. But I think the important thing that, that rugby union, I think sports in general gives people is it gives children many life lessons of working in groups, interacting with different adults, keeping your kit ready. Turning up on time. So many life lessons. And I've never met anyone that hasn't spent, time within any sporting context that those values don't rub off.

Kevin 28:14

Can but agree Dean. Now, I think it's quite evident that we could spend the rest of the evening chatting away quite quite happily. But I must try and keep onto some sort of track. You've made it very evident, certainly to me and I'm sure to anybody listening how design goes way beyond the traditional roles that people think of. And indeed, if you take your case, I can't believe that anyone, whatever they do, butcher, baker, candle stick maker, nuclear physicist, they will understand with a bit of thought how what they do involves design and how it can make life better for people. But I'm gonna start to draw this to a conclusion by asking you a question that I try to ask all my interviewees. Which is to take the broad view and to say you've had a lot of experience; we are where we are today in 2026; if you had the opportunity to change something about modern life or modern society as you see it, what perhaps would that be?

Dean 29:38

I think I think. One of the interesting things that I read recently which is a Scandinavian exercise that has been introduced in the last 12 months, which I think is remarkable because they've removed computers completely from the school rooms and they've reverted back to books, handwriting. And I think that's one of the big concerns that I've got, what would I change is the introduction of computing and particularly where it's heading towards with AI, I have a concern about the de-skilling of people because the system tells you what the answer is. And I always remember a professor of mine being quite clearly, if you don't know how to calculate it yourself, how do you know it's right? And I think some of the concerns I've got with technology, though, it provides huge benefits in so many areas, whether it's in diagnostic medicine and so on and so forth. My concern is that the basic skills that individuals have will get diminished with time. And I think it's difficult to predict 20 years back when technology started to move on and we're so advanced in so many things. But if we look at that, my children who are all in their thirties, their relationship with their telephones is entirely different. Within one generation to what it previously was in my case when I was in university, standing in the queue outside the phone box with a handful of copper coins making a phone call. And the fact that you've got a piece of equipment now which could nearly take you to the moon in the sixties is testament to how powerful that's become. I have a concern about how that might lead in the next two decades.

Kevin 31:59

I'm very, I'm interested to hear that because it does echo perhaps on a rather broader broader canvas concerns that have been expressed by other guests. And the good thing is that the more people who are aware of the potential pitfalls of technology and AI, then the better chance we stand of being able to keep it in the right place and use it appropriately. One of the things that I bang on about a lot is the benefit of people having a liberal education and by liberal education, all I really mean is yeah, there's gonna be one or two things that really get you and you're gonna concentrate on, but you do need to have that broader awareness of life generally, so that you've got different ways to be able to respond to things as you come up against them. And AI and technology, if you're not careful, can give you the idea that, oh, it's all right. We'll just feed it in here and that'll give us the answer. Yeah. I think also from my own journey,

Dean 33:11

if I think back to when I was 13 part of the exercise back then certainly in comprehensive education is that you had to make subject choices in terms of what you would follow into O level and A level as it became, which immediately meant because I was heading science direction languages went out, history went out, and geography went out pretty quickly. So I always had a very limited interest in history. My interest in history became triggered through my eldest son Aaron, who was a big history buff. And he opened that door for me just because of discussions we would have when he was a teenager, and subject matters that he would he would provide. And I think it's taking as well and any advice that is to be open to new information challenges, no matter what your preconception would be. And so many great experiences that I've had, whether it's travelling, whether it's literature, theatre, whatever is to try and resist that first inclination. I don't really fancy that and then be taken and thoroughly enjoyed. Jackie once took me to a George Michael concert, which I was very opposed to at the time, and that was three hours of one of the most remarkable concerts I ever had.'cause he stood up for the best part of three hours and sang 30 songs; an amazing performer. So try and get led by I haven't done it, never tried it before. Let's try it at least once.

Kevin 35:06

That's a fantastic note on which to bring this to conclusion I think. Dean, Thanks very much indeed for giving the time and indeed giving the consideration to this podcast.

Dean 35:19

My pleasure.

Kevin 35:20

Sadly, I can't guarantee that all my guests will necessarily be that articulate, but that's life. Not everybody is the same. But I hope that this has given one or two people another way into thinking about and looking at design. Thank you very much indeed to everyone or anyone that's been listening, and I very much look forward to being with you again on the next episode. Until then, thank you and bye for now.