Strategic Shift
Stories of bold decisions and innovations transforming workforce development.
Strategic Shift
Mark Beal: Living to Work or Working to Live?
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Season 2 of Strategic Shift kicks off with a conversation about thriving in today’s multi-generational workforce. Mark Beal, professor and Gen Z thought leader, explains how younger professionals are working smarter with AI, while also showing why human interaction and cultural fit remain essential. He offers practical guidance for candidates, leaders and anyone navigating the evolving workplace.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Mark Beal
02:00 - Mark Beal's Career Insights
04:00 - Multi-Generational Communication
06:00 - AI's Impact on Marketing
08:00 - Importance of AI Immersion
10:00 - Job Interview Preparation
12:00 - Standing Out with Referrals
14:00 - Balancing Tech and EQ
16:00 - Generational Work Myths
18:00 - Building Networks Beyond Academics
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Christy L Honeycutt (00:01.592)
Pepelwerk is proud to present Strategic Shift, a podcast dedicated to exploring the future of work. Thank you for joining us as we hear stories of bold decisions and workforce innovations. I'm your host, Christy Honeycutt. On today's episode, we have Mark Beal. He's a 30-year marketing exec. He's also Rutgers University's assistant professor of Practice, Gen Z author, thought leader, TEDx speaker, podcast host, and so much more. Join us as we dive into the multi-generational workforce, debunk the laziness myth, and discuss how to set yourself apart in the future of work. Don't miss this tactical episode with real, true nuggets to help you elevate.
Christy L Honeycutt (00:01.43)
OK, Mark, welcome to the show. I know that my intro did not do you justice because you have worked with some amazing brands like NASCAR and the US Open, and you work with thousands of students. Is there anything that you'd like to highlight about your background and what you do today?
Mark Beal (00:28.6)
No, mean, well, first of all, thanks for having me. I love being here, and I love the conversation with you. The biggest thing is, what I talk about is I have 30-plus years in public relations and marketing. As you said, many of these years were focused on major companies that were sponsoring events like the Super Bowl, the Olympic Games, and the Rolling Stones. And they asked me and my agency to create campaigns around that. That was my life for 30 years, 24/7.
But now it's the idea of leveraging that for the benefit of students for today, for the next generation of marketers. So everything I do today as a professor at Rutgers University is to leverage all my experiences, all my contacts, which I try to leverage almost every day, and really help today's students and even my recent graduates get to where they want to go. So I...
You know, that's the focus. That's the purpose. That's kind of my mission. Now it's about giving back, paying it forward. And the way I'm doing it is by really leveraging my contacts, network, and experiences. And so, that's kind of where I am in my life stage and my career stage now, which is a really great place to be. Because I feel like it's much more purposeful than what I did for many years, which was going out, winning business, and creating campaigns. Which I love. Right now, it's very exciting, but I feel I have a higher purpose now.
Christy L Honeycutt (01:41.966)
Well, and you have, and you're so humble, because how many books have you written? I counted over 10.
Mark Beal (01:48.505)
Uh, the numbers are right around 10. It's somewhere in the 10 range. And, uh, you know, I've always loved writing. Was a journalism major in college at Rutgers. Uh, I wrote for a Daily Newspaper while I was in university. Um, so I've always loved writing. So, yeah, 10 books, a handful of those books focus on Generation Z. Several of those books focus on career. And the first book I ever wrote, which was inspired by my students in 2016 and 2017, when I was only an adjunct, is titled 101 Lessons They Never Taught You in College. And it just felt right. It was the students after class every day. How do I write a resume? How do I write a cover letter? Do I send a thank-you note after the interview? How do I conduct a phone interview versus an in-person interview? And so my thought was, let's turn all those questions into answers, and let's create these very pithy, 101, almost like one-page tips, advice, whatever you want to call it. And that book was well-received, and so we just kept going with it.
Christy L Honeycutt (02:46.006)
I love that. It’s tactical, too. I'm a mom of a 32-year-old university director. And so I've watched him go through college, and I've watched him help other people go through college. And at the end of the day, in this multi-generational workforce that we find ourselves in, we all communicate differently, and our expectations are so different. So I'm curious, obviously, about how you're engaging these different generations. And if you're noticing any nuances with each of them, because I know that I personally have had a lot of experience working with people who are 20 years older than me and 10 to 15 years younger than me at the same time, and their communication styles are vastly different.
Mark Beal (03:27.436)
Well, I'm real-
First of all, I love that you brought up that communication styles are different. I bring that up to my students all the time. And what I say is in that first 30, 60, 90 days on the job, you really need to understand what the communication styles and preferences of your supervisor, your manager, your client are, because they're going to all be different, right? Some will be very into it, so we'll just text each other all day, or we'll be on Slack all day. Alternatively, I'm an old-schooler, so we'll be on the phone all day. But either way, you've got to figure out what they prefer. I always talk about a client I once had who just never responded to texts, emails, or anything, and so the way we kind of solved that was we sat in their office and got work done. Still, I told my students, you know, everyone is different, everyone has a different two things, as you said.
A style, a preference, and what I call response time. So I'm a 30- 60 second responder. You send me an email, and if I'm not flying, driving, or teaching, you will get a response within a minute. I do that for me because I have hundreds of emails that build up all day, and if I don't respond right away, it's going to get buried somewhere. So that's my method to my madness. But others I know who I'll email, and I know I've known.
In 48 hours, they will respond, but that's their response time, 48 hours. Others I know, they won't respond to my first email so I give it five days then as soon as I send the second I'll say I'm so sorry I saw your first one I'm responding so. Still, your point it's so important especially for young professionals to understand that and understand those key individuals they're working with again a supervisor a manager a director a client.
Mark Beal (04:57.912)
because those are the individuals they communicate with day in and day out, and they have to understand their preferences, timing, and other factors. So I love that. I have an incredible opportunity that I'm privileged to have, which is collaborating with 150 students, mostly from Gen Z, in the classroom this semester. I also teach some graduate students who may be young millennials.
So I'm kind of in every, you know, I'm in the classroom with them on an almost daily basis. So we get to know each other really well. We get to understand, as you said, our styles, our preferences, and how we communicate. And yeah, it varies from generation to generation. I laughed a little when you said that, because I'm currently planning a keynote speech for either 50 or 100 CEOs in a few weeks. And the organizer of the event is probably a GenXer like me. And so he doesn't email or text. He just calls my cell phone whenever he needs something, which is what
You know, our generation would probably do the same thing. If I were hosting that same event with someone who might be a Gen Z-er or young millennial, it would probably be a test for them. You know, hey, I need this, or get me this, or whatever. Very important. You're absolutely, you're absolutely.
Christy L Honeycutt (06:03.086)
I love the text to ask if you can text.
Mark Beal (06:08.854)
Yeah.
Christy L Honeycutt (06:10.774)
Legit, that's happening nowadays. So, you have all these different generations and how they communicate, as well as how they want things to go. And then we're on the cusp of innovation, technology, AI, and all the things that are out there with each of these generations. Are you seeing that your Gen Zs and your millennials are challenging the future of work? Are they seeing the process differently than maybe the Gen Xers and the Boomers did?
Mark Beal (06:35.8)
I think so for sure. And so I have these two pillars that I talk about whenever I speak about the multi-generational workplace. I'm always pointing myself when I talk about older generations, because I always want to, when I talk about Gen X, I'm talking about myself. So there are two pillars. First is older generations, again,
We live to work. We live to wake up and go to work five, six, or seven days a week. I'm not proud of that, but it's the truth. We live to work. We wake up to work 15, 16, 17 hours a day.
Gen Z doesn't do that. Gen Z works to live. They work to earn a salary, which they then use to pursue their passions, interests, and even side hustles. In today's world, this is a common practice, but in my day, discussing a side hustle was not the norm. So that's the first thing. Live to work was work to live. And then the second part is, I think, it speaks to your point. Again, I'm pointing a finger when I say this, not anybody else, but I think we worked harder, but not smarter. Gen Z works smarter, not harder.
So to your point, they're leveraging the latest technology, the latest AI platforms, whatever it might mean. It'll take a task that's perhaps very time-consuming, such as one that takes nine, 10, or 11 hours, and say, ' Well, why don't we try this? ' Is there an AI platform that can maybe do this task in 30 minutes? Someone like me, who has been in it for so long, isn't necessarily thinking that way.
They're thinking that way. That's how they think. Mean, that's just, it just comes natural to them to think, okay, well maybe there's a process, a platform, a channel, a technology, whatever it is, we can actually be much more efficient. Then maybe we can focus on other things like strategizing, creativity, and coming up with campaigns. So, yeah, that's what I consider the change. I repeatedly say this to my students in the classroom, and I teach mostly juniors, seniors, and graduate students. But I say this probably every class, and they probably are tired of me saying it. But what I tell them is,
Mark Beal (08:31.798)
We are in, I believe we're in chapter one of AI and business for sure, but I say AI and marketing because my focus is marketing. But we're going to be in chapter two really fast. I'm going to be in chapter three before we know it. And I tell them, you know, I'm in a different part of my career now, but for you, as you start out, AI is going to be.
You're gonna be joined at the hip at AI for the next 30, 40, 50 years, whatever it is in your career. And so, what I tell them, and I just told this to a class of 90 students yesterday, is to live it, learn from it, immerse yourself in it, test it, learn from the experience, try it, and experiment with it. And I said, I wouldn't be shocked if, when you have a job interview in three, four, five, six months, the person conducting it might even say, By the way.
What do you think of AI, and have you tested it? Have you tried it? And maybe what's your favorite AI platform? And if you don't have an answer for that and say, well, no, I really haven't, they're going to be like, nah, you're not right for us. So, I'm a big believer that if you're starting your career, not just starting your career, but for my students, they're all starting their career soon, immerse yourself completely in AI. Every time I bring a guest speaker, I bring in almost 60, 60 a semester across all my courses, almost, maybe 50.
Christy L Honeycutt (09:23.437)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Beal (09:41.163)
And these are people who are leaders in marketing and advertising. Just yesterday, I had the leader of shopper marketing for Campbell's, the soup company. And we always ask, or I always ask, just to talk about day-to-day, how are you using AI?
And it's not, again, it's not to solve the world's problems at this point. It's really just to, you know, really kind of, I'll call it simple things, but I want the students to understand that these marketers, these advertisers, these public relations professionals, whether they're 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 55, every single day, they're testing AI, they're trying AI to help them with something. And so the students, who are probably more fluent in them than an old Gen Xer like me, really need to be testing, learning, and trying because it's going to be such a big part of their career.
Christy L Honeycutt (10:26.029)
I mean, AI won't replace your job, but someone with AI knowledge will. That will stop.
Mark Beal (10:32.31)
Yes, and also I think you're going to go somewhere else there; yes, I agree. Also, you're going to immerse yourself in it; if you live it, you're going to, so to speak, advance much more quickly in your career than someone who puts their hands up like, I don't really like technology.
Christy L Honeycutt (10:40.739)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Beal (10:51.458)
If you can, I draw a parallel to 20 years ago, when social media emerged in 2005, 2006, and 2007. And there were two camps to me. There was one camp that said, That's just a fad. That'll be gone in a year or two. But no, it's transformed everything we do. It's transformed marketing. It's transformed media. And those who said that, again, to me became dinosaurs pretty quickly. And those who said, No, we need to embrace it. We need to understand it. We need to live it, learn it. I think they advanced very quickly. And I think the same with AI.
Christy L Honeycutt (11:20.973)
For sure. There's so much technology and innovation out there that it just makes your head spin. And then when I look at it, and I think we're both very passionate about the future of work and people finding meaningful purpose and employment, it's how do they choose and what do they need to know to do? Because each human in the United States gets seven points of fraud a day, right? So they're navigating that. They're navigating all of these different ways to apply for a job, to be seen, to...
Someone with your background in marketing for 30 years, I'm curious what your advice is to both employers and candidates. How do they set themselves apart in this age of AI? And on the right foot, right? We don't want people to think they're just getting in the door. I've had so many recruiters and leaders say, We don't know if it's an AI-written resume or not. So there's a lot of challenging, there's a lot of mistrust out there right now.
What guidance do you have based on what you've seen and your background?
Mark Beal (12:21.004)
Yeah, so I have real core principles in this area that I think you'll like. But I have real core principles. And I do, and again, just as background, even though I'm a professor now, as part of my way of giving back every day, like when we get done here, I have five back-to-back-to-back-to-back Zoom calls with current or former students helping them get their next job.
Christy L Honeycutt (12:28.015)
I'm sure I will.
Christy L Honeycutt (12:43.407)
I love it.
Mark Beal (12:43.448)
That's just my way of giving back. So, we're going to review their resume. We're going to review it. We're going to revise it. We're going to then figure out where you want to go and who I know that can help you get there. And then I will start making instructions for them, which I actually already started this morning with one of my former students. So, even though we discuss AI and tech, which is not going away, I have already mentioned that I'm also a huge believer in what I call H.I., or human interaction. And H.I. is not going away either. And I ultimately believe that in a competitive job search process, that, yeah, may start with more tech-based programs. You may even do your first interview with something that's not even a human. You may just be recording an interview like this. But eventually, in round two or three or four, there will be some human on the other side, whether you're doing it through Zoom, a video conference, or in person.
And I always tell my students, just said this yesterday again, I say, think it's the candidate that demonstrates the best AI who can converse, who can engage, will be the candidate that I believe wins. Not because, at that point, around three or four, you've already made it, because your credentials have already made it, or because of what was in your resume. Now they're comparing you to say four or five, six others. And at the end, they're going to say, I really enjoyed my conversation most with that person or that individual. And actually, what I talk about AI is this engaging conversation.
And so I think that's a huge component. I'm going to back up one second. So to me, that's a big piece of the interview process and ultimately winning the job. However, where I am with my students and former students at the beginning is what I call my one-two combination, where we can all hit the send button and apply for jobs.
Personally, I don't think we'll reach that goal. It's going to go into a black hole. And most likely, your resume among the 1,000 is probably not going to get looked at, no matter how well it's written or whatever. And even if the applicant tracking system matches it well. So I always say we've got to do two things. I've done this frequently over the last few months with numerous students, alumni, and companies. Once you apply, and I'm not saying come to me all the time. I don't mean it that way. But you need to identify who knows who there.
Mark Beal (14:49.556)
So, I mean, just in the last three weeks I've done this and helped.
At 10 or 12 people get their next job. So who knows who where? So, you're applying for a job at XYZ Company. Oh, I just happened to know someone at XYZ company. They might even be in that same department. It might even come under them, but if not, we need to reach out to them and arrange for them to hand-deliver your resume to the recruiter internally. And you know this better than anyone, Christie; we, as candidates, never really have access to the review. You're showing that you don't have a one-day turnaround and say, 'Hey, we really liked your resume.' We're going to put you in the process. But other than that, we don't know who it is. We don't really have access.
To them, we don't know how they're making the decision. But if we can use that contact and use that referral to at least just get us on the short list. If you can just get me in there for that 10 or 15, I'll take it from there. And so that's my big focus with all my students. Like I said this morning, I just set up one of my students with three different companies, three contacts at each, one contact at each of those companies. And the goal is for her to get her on the short list for a job.
And so, to me, the biggest piece of this puzzle is who knows who where.
And as someone in your network, know someone fairly well, really well, so that they can make a call on your behalf and just say, you know, this person who applied is a really strong candidate. I think it'd be well worth your while to put them in the mix for that five, 10, 15. So that's the approach I take. It's been well this summer; it's just worked week after week. I've had so many former students convert those kinds of relationships into jobs by just opening that door just a bit. And as I always say, I never get anyone a job. They ultimately get the job.
Mark Beal (16:28.794)
But if I can open the door just to get them in there, then it goes from maybe a thousand to maybe 10. And if they at least just do that, we've just improved their chances dramatically by being one of 10, as opposed to one of a thousand.
Christy L Honeycutt (16:34.863)
Right.
Christy L Honeycutt (16:40.536)
I love that you mentioned that, obviously, tech is here, has been here, and will continue to evolve, so we need to embrace it. But I also love that, like, almost equally important is the human component, right? It's that relationship. And so it's, I think we're in a unique opportunity to really bring that forward, to really shine in your EI, your EQ, how you relate to people. And in my opinion, based on my limited experience with this population, primarily through my children.
Mark Beal (16:52.332)
Yeah.
Christy L Honeycutt (17:09.006)
That's the differentiator: how they communicate and how they relate to the technology, which I think you're bringing to the forefront for everyone.
Mark Beal (17:18.22)
Correct. And I'm going to add here, and again, you know all this. When I say this, you already know what I mean. However, I'd like to add one thing that you briefly mentioned earlier, which I didn't mention before we started. Still, obviously another big element of this, especially when we get to that part of human versus human talking to human, not just the engagement, but it's also research, research, research. And so.
I'm a big believer in knowing. If I were doing the interview today and you were the one hiring me, Chris, or if you were conducting the interview on your side and you were the recruiter, I would have all my sticky notes with the research I've done over the last week. The company made this announcement five days ago. They just won this award for this, whatever it might be. The CEO just did a podcast, and I pulled a quote from it. Now you're showing, not just having a pretty good HI, but you actually took the time and did some research. Um, I had a former student who only graduated on May 25 and, um, I had a CEO with an agency who said, Hey, I'm looking for really strong candidates. And I said, Don't worry, I've got them. I'm to send them your way. So anyway, this one particular student, within 48 hours, called back. I've got an interview already. I said, 'I said,' and somehow, I don't know why, but I think the CEO was involved in the interview. I'm not sure why the CEO was involved, but somehow they were. So I said, Here, we're going to do this. The CEO just did a podcast interview that was published a week or two or three ago. You're to go on. I sent her the link. I said, Go to that podcast. It may be 40 minutes long. I'd listen to the whole thing, but even if you don't pull one great soundbite out of it, put it on a sticky note in front of you. And as soon as you start the call before the interview starts, just say, Thank you very much. By the way, I just listened to that podcast you did. I love it when you said this.
Christy L Honeycutt (18:44.913)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Beal (18:53.494)
I'm telling you right now, if you do that, there won't even be an interview. Because that person's gonna be like, first of all, no one listened to that podcast. You're the only one who did. And you actually remember something I said? You will have won the interview in the first 10 seconds if you do that. And sure enough, she did win the job. And she loves where she's at.
Christy L Honeycutt (19:01.723)
Mm-hmm.
Christy L Honeycutt (19:08.593)
You know, Mark, that's awesome that you say that, because even before all this AI, that's what the teams would share: when you interview. I actually had a manager go, 'Are you prepping these candidates?' No, I'm helping them understand what they need to do to be successful, which is to research the company and come up with three questions that you can ask about them. Why is the seat vacant? You know, what, how, what do you, how do you see that I would be successful in the first?
30, 60, 90 days. Just what's expected of me? What does good look like? Just be able to kind of put the employer on their toes a little bit to answer your questions and see that you're bought in and that you're worth the time. And you're right, it works every time because you build trust and you show that you have integrity and that you're prepared and all the things that an employer wants to see.
Mark Beal (19:52.546)
Great thinking.
Mark Beal (20:02.476)
I would like to add one more question. All the ones you asked for are great. I love all those, and those are, and then there's one other I always ask, which I think is the one that kind of puts people, as you said, a little bit back on their heels. And I'm just saying, what keeps you up at night as it relates to the company, the work, the clients? And I think they'll pause for a second, like, wow, I don't think everyone's gonna ask me that. And then they'll, they may talk for the next 20 minutes because a lot is keeping them up at night, but they've never had a chance to really open up about it. That's another one on top, in addition to your questions.
Christy L Honeycutt (20:05.743)
Hahaha
Christy L Honeycutt (20:13.424)
Yes.
Christy L Honeycutt (20:29.883)
Well, and that's a great one too for candidates to realize, is this a place I want to work? Like when they start opening up the treasure chest, do I really want to work here? Or, wow, that sounds exciting. I can have an impact here. So it's really great. Well, I know that.
Mark Beal (20:37.132)
Yes.
Mark Beal (20:42.872)
I have been to your point, have been saying this over and over, which is exactly what you expressed. Said, yes, you're being interviewed for this job, whatever it may be, but you, very importantly, need to interview them because ultimately, there has to be a cultural fit. So if you get this job and you don't really have a sense of the culture, and let's just say it's a work-hard culture.
Christy L Honeycutt (20:45.474)
No, I love it.
Mark Beal (21:07.82)
Five days a week, you're in your office. And you don't know all of that. And you start, and you're going to be miserable in about a week. However, if you truly understand the culture, you can say, 'Well, maybe this isn't the right place for me.' Maybe I should look elsewhere, whatever it might be. And so I completely agree with her, and I just say, You need to interview them?
As much as they're interviewing you, because this has got to be a fit. Again, we know all this, Chrissy, but each of us has a different kind of culture where we can thrive. And some of us can really thrive in a work-hard culture. We can. Some of us may not. And in today's world, which has been completely disrupted by the COVID-19 pandemic, some people work five days a week from their living rooms. Others are going five days a week. I've had several former students in the past week say,
Christy L Honeycutt (21:30.385)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Beal (21:55.595)
I have been five days out of the office. I don't want to go five days in; actually, I do want a little human connection. My preference would be, and I've heard this from a lot of people, I'd love to go in two days a week, three days a week. Maybe on Monday, Friday, I don't go in, which is great, but I go in on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. There is that balance, which all of us strive for. Part of that balance is the company's culture, and does it match what I'm looking for in a culture?
Christy L Honeycutt (22:20.689)
So Mark, I have a question for you. You just brought something to mind. Obviously, we are a lot of different generations. You and I identify as X. I know that back in the day, boomers, and I've heard this before, there are some myths about Gen Z and millennials, such as them being lazy and various other things. I tend to look at it differently, as I believe what I see is that they're more purposeful. They want more work-life balance, right?
Mark Beal (22:28.086)
Yep.
Christy L Honeycutt (22:45.733)
where we were taught, or I was taught, that you stay with the same company for 30 years and then retire. My grandfather retired from American, and so did my dad; that's what I looked for. However, being in talent, I can tell you that you need to move a little bit to upskill yourself, right? Because you don't always get upskilling where you are. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on any myths you've heard about the population you interact with daily.
Mark Beal (23:02.625)
True.
Right.
Christy L Honeycutt (23:14.755)
And if it is truly different than what they're expecting from maybe an older employer.
Mark Beal (23:19.776)
Yeah, well, I think, and again, as you mentioned being Gen Xers, I think when I joined the workforce full time and hate to date myself, 1989, I'll bet you they were saying us Gen Xers are lazy and we don't want to work and we don't wish to, know, so, so I think that's been kind of just historically when the newest.
Christy L Honeycutt (23:31.877)
We're lazy, yes.
Mark Beal (23:38.393)
kids, so to speak, join the workplace. And Jen Alpha will do this in 10 years, by the way. I think it's always been that kind of rhetoric, that they don't want to work as hard as we do. They're a little bit lazy. And I think it's been even more so because, as I mentioned, Gen Z entered the workplace as the pandemic hit in 2020. That was kind of our oldest Gen Z years, because the oldest Gen Z members were born in 1997, and they would have been 23 in 2020. So we had two things really converging, transforming the workplace. This thing
The pandemic, which no one was prepared for, had not been trained for, and for which no one was ready, caused us to transition overnight from in-person work to remote work. And then, all of a sudden, a new group, Gen Z, appears. So they're showing up in a pandemic, which means they're not even in the office; they're remote. And so it was a turbulent time. But yeah, I hear it all the time. Lazy, doesn't want to, I mean, I hate to say it, I can't stand when I hear it. I just can't stand when I hear it because it's just talk. I think in every generation, I don't care what the
Generation is Gen X, Boomers, Millennials, and Gen Z. If there are a hundred of us, there are some who are top performers. Some may not be top performers. There's a lot in the middle. I think that's the same for every single generation. I don't think it's a generational thing; I think it's a human thing, and we just have different levels of performance, regardless of whether you're 29 or 59. I just think there are different levels of performance out there, but I do think
Going back to what I said earlier, I do think, though, and this is not my quote, but there was a great quote from the former CMO of MTV that said, 'Z is the first generation that swiped before they wiped.' It's a fun and great quote.
Christy L Honeycutt (25:21.196)
Wow, I love that.
Mark Beal (25:24.024)
With that, again, Gen Z is entering the workplace with a high level of tech-savviness and digital-savviness. They're coming with, ' Hey, have we tried Slack? ' Have we ever thought of Slack, maybe to communicate among our groups or with our clients? I'm just using that as an example, but the point is that they are coming with that, whereas when I showed up, I didn't come with any of that. Well, first of all, there was no tech. In fact, when Nate and I started, there wasn't even email, believe it or not.
Christy L Honeycutt (25:30.098)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Beal (25:48.321)
So they're coming with that and they're sharing that. So that's not about being lazy. That's just about it. Is there a more efficient way to accomplish tasks? Is there a more effective way? And so that's a difference. Yeah, I bite my tongue when I hear from a fellow Xer or an older millennial. How do you deal with this generation? And I'm like, I don't even respond. Really, don't, cause I don't want to get into an argument with them. Don't even worry, just like that. I spend lots of time with them. And my proof points are all my former students.
Whether they graduated a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, whatever, who are thriving now at major media companies, major agencies, pharmaceutical companies, well, they must be doing something right, because they're all doing pretty darn well over there and getting promoted, promoted, promoted.
Christy L Honeycutt (26:32.134)
You know, and you lead me to another question for you. I formally managed a very large advertising agency, which had three different agencies under its umbrella. And the biggest challenge that they, and the leadership, wanted to figure out was how to scale up. Now I know what upscaling is. Upscaling is an area where I have experience. I want to experience this. What's the gap between? It's fairly simple. But I've never seen anything so convoluted and confusing.
To corporations and to the individuals striving to reach the next level. So, when you consider upscaling, which has been a frequently used term over the years, how would you recommend that your students, as they progress in their careers, upskill themselves?
Mark Beal (27:16.28)
Yeah, great question. And I agree with you. Scalability can be challenging when it comes to scaling up. Whether you're with a company of 100 or 10,000 or even more, I don't think this is a cookie-cutter approach, which I think is what they're trying to take, right? So I always tell my students, and I think this speaks to what you're saying. So here's what I tell my students: 'You just started a new job today.'
Within that, you're not going to be doing it today, but sometime within the next 30 to 40, 50, or 60 days, who truly is your mentor? Not necessarily your manager, but your manager slash mentor slash who's looking out for you on a day-to-day basis? They may not be your boss. They may be someone who was just two or three years ahead of you, and they're a colleague, but they're not necessarily your boss. And I think what you need to do with that person once you identify them, because you won't know who it is on day one, is try to sit with them and set measurable, smart goals.
I can create a plan with you that allows us to check in three months, six months, or 12 months from now. Am I progressing? Am I making it there? Am I getting there? And then continue to do that over and over, so that by the time you reach the three-month mark, you've become the market expert.
You've hit these, you've got to work on these, but we need to start adding even more, because if we want to reach the next level, here's the responsibility. Anyway, I know that's very personalized, but I think it gets to the point that I have to take this into my own hands. I can't just sit here and wait for the company to say, 'There's a training program this Friday.' Please show up at 12 noon for that. I've got to own this thing, and I've got to own my journey. And one way to own that is,
Christy L Honeycutt (28:37.959)
Yes.
Mark Beal (28:49.302)
Again, ideally, to me, it's someone who's like two to three years ahead of you in the same kind of role, but they've been promoted. They were where you were. So they've got a little bit of a success record, a track record, and they might be able to help you navigate that path. They started as account coordinators and have progressed to become account executives. All right. Well, they're doing something right. So how do I get there? One way to do that is to partner with them. So, instead of a forced mentorship, this is a more organic approach.
Christy L Honeycutt (29:20.979)
And I love that you say the organic mentorship, because I've told all the organizations I work with that if you want to build a coaching mentor program, I'm all for it. But you cannot drive an individual to want to have that. Need to, the ones that want it are going to get it with or without you, regardless, right? That's a great thing to say. I know that you work with many CEOs and chief people officers, as well as on behalf of your students.
Mark Beal (29:32.684)
Yes.
Mark Beal (29:38.773)
Absolutely.
Christy L Honeycutt (29:48.111)
Is there anything that you're seeing or hearing from the C-suite that could help this population navigate to their next career?
Mark Beal (29:56.977)
It's a great question. It's funny. I have numerous conversations with chief people officers regularly, as I'm trying to ultimately help my students. So I'm trying to pick the brain of the chief people officer. What are you looking for? What's, you know, whatever. And that's where my relationship with them stands today, just picking their brain. What are you looking for in your next hire? What's, know, and,
No, mean, again, it comes down to a lot of the things we talked about, right? They've got to, you know, if they get into that mix, they've got to do their research. I tell my students, you've probably studied for many exams. This is 10 times that. You've got to study like you've never studied before in your life, because this is your one shot at this one position. The second thing is, again, those human, those HI, human interaction people skills, right? If you come across as robotic, it's just not going to work; it's just not going to fly.
You've got to, again, consider the other thing I discuss when we do this in one of my courses: you have a brand, just like Christie, and I have a brand. Well, when you go compete for that job, your personal brand is competing with those other 10, 12, 15 other candidates.
The brand that one brand is going to win this job. And so, numerous elements contribute to your brand, extending well beyond just your experience. Again, I believe that if you've made it to kind of round three or four, you've made it because of your experience. Now, you've got to do some other things, like engaging them in conversation, showing research, and demonstrating commitment, and all those things. It's really interesting to explore the relationship.
Because I'll have a Chief People Officer, I recently had one in Patrick, who said, We should stop posting new jobs. We no longer post them publicly due to labor rules, labor laws, and other considerations. And so we just don't post jobs, but we're hiring a lot of people. And so, if you have great candidates, then my way. One, I love that she told me that. I didn't know that. However, when I send candidates, within minutes, she responds, 'Thank you for this.' Let's schedule a Zoom call for tomorrow to discuss that response rate. Natalie proactively sends me candidates. She actually acts on them as I email them, and she takes that first.
Step of the chief people officer having the conversation. And I think based on that initial conversation, she's making a decision there. Maybe this person is right. Maybe they're not right. Maybe we have a spot for them. Maybe we don't. So it goes back to, again, just making the connections with someone on the inside. You've got to understand what the hiring process is all about. I've had numerous conversations lately with various companies, mostly large corporations, that are increasingly utilizing referral systems.
And I'll use one category as an example, such as the sports betting industry, where there are currently four or five major players. All my former students who work there, with whom I have dozens and dozens, all say that if you've got someone good, don't have them apply for the job. I will apply on their behalf.
If they apply, they're on their own. If I apply for them, that's a referral. Most likely, it will make its way in. And ultimately, there's a reason why this current employee is doing that. They may get a bonus, right? They may get a commission, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. However, it's interesting how some companies have now created referral systems where they're really looking to the employee to actually refer someone, and even in this case, apply for that person, such as submitting their resume, as opposed to the candidate. So it's all these nuances that you really have to know and learn.
Christy L Honeycutt (33:21.841)
Yeah.
Mark Beal (33:25.054)
And the only way to do this is to ask a lot of questions, because every company operates differently, and the application interview process varies from one place to another.
Christy L Honeycutt (33:33.365)
Well, I think the innovation's on its ear right now with AI, with people concerned about risk, and others who are completely leaning into it. At the end of the day, everyone's just trying to find really good people to employ to do a good job. So one final question for you, because this one's going to be a little bit peppered. So I know that you're a university professor. I know that you are a deep, deep executive. What about
Mark Beal (33:36.055)
Yeah.
Mark Beal (33:47.736)
Absolutely.
Christy L Honeycutt (34:02.472)
those employees and those future candidates who aren't college material. College was not for them, but they still possess certain attributes that set them apart, and they want to continue their education and seek employment. Would your guidance to them be the same as it is for your college students?
Mark Beal (34:21.506)
Wow, I wasn't expecting that question. The way you started there, right? That's where you go, which is a hot topic. And I can't remember who recently interviewed me about this. I think it was Yahoo Finance. Said, is there value in a college education? And I was glad he emailed me that question, so I really had a lot of time to think about it. And because there's great value, great value. And one of the pieces of value that this author did not even consider until I interviewed with him.
Christy L Honeycutt (34:23.845)
Hahaha!
Christy L Honeycutt (34:38.269)
Hahaha
Mark Beal (34:49.824)
It's all the value actually outside the classroom. So yes, you have your courses. Yes, you do. And there's incredible value. As I mentioned, I brought in 50 to 60 guest speakers yesterday. Like I said, I had one of the most senior marketing executives from Campbell's Soup, and the students couldn't get enough of this. And where are they going to meet that? They're not going to meet him anywhere other than, okay. But.
The networking, the connections, the relationships. You know, I teach at Rutgers University, a large university, and when I tell my students, there are tens of thousands of alumni who work exactly where you want to work. Do you want to work in the media? We've got tens of thousands of media. Do you want to work in the healthcare field? Tens of So.
If you don't go, we'll just say to that university. Well, you're creating those connections with it. So, the value of the university to me is not just the classroom, but also all the things that come with it, which are part of the university experience over four years or more. So, I think the way we can pivot to someone who maybe doesn't know what it is, again, is that you've got to figure out, okay, well, how do I build my...
Christy L Honeycutt (35:43.972)
Yeah.
Mark Beal (35:51.095)
A team of what I'll call mentors, my team of advisors, right? It's not going to be the same if I don't go to college; it's not going to be the same as having classmates. It's not going to be professors. It's not going to be an alumnus whom I met who guest lectured in one of my classes. So I think there's that whole piece of it. And then the second piece again; you know this much better than I, so when I say the next thing, you'll hopefully know it better than I do.
I'm not sure if there's been a shift. I'm just thinking that, as my students apply for jobs, most of those jobs, say, require a bachelor's degree in a specific field. Communication, marketing, journalism, whatever. So I'm not saying every job does, but for most of those jobs that they're applying for, in fact, I think probably all the jobs they're applying for, that's at least like the first requirement. So what you need or what you must have. And that's like the first one. So if you don't have that, I'm not even sure if you get to round one with any of those jobs. It doesn't mean there aren't other opportunities available. Of course, there are other jobs out there, so yeah, it's an interesting one. That's a really tricky one. I've had conversations with high school students who asked if they could speak to me, who were like content creators. In today's world, we have a whole generation of content creators. And they said, You know, I don't think I want to go to college. I don't think I need to go to college. I think I can just be, I said, you know, as a content creator,
You're right. That means creating content, distributing it, and then trying to monetize it; you need to do it on your own. I said the only little challenge, though, again, your network right now, as a senior in high school or something, is very small.
And it's not really going to get much bigger if you're not taking yourself someplace. And I, you know, in this case, I mean college. So, it's a little bit tricky because your network now is this group, and it may be the same group five years from now, because you didn't really go anywhere. You didn't meet anybody, you know, so it was great. Love the question. I wasn't expecting that question. I think it's fantastic.
Christy L Honeycutt (37:37.012)
Well, I'm glad that I stumped you. Maybe I should have taken Yahoo's note and sent it to you prior. It just popped up. Well, Mark, it has been an immense pleasure getting to know you, interviewing you, and understanding where you're coming from with these students. Thank you for the work you're doing to place them, because we need more Mark Beals in the world to help these individuals land, be fulfilled, and become a truly valuable member of society.
Christy L Honeycutt (38:07.206)
Is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience before we end the session?
Mark Beal (38:11.286)
I think, just what can I say? You got me there with that last one. I would just say, again, that I'll point the finger at myself, a Gen Xer with 30-plus years in the industry. I would say that if you're in that position, pay it forward. Help those who are coming up behind you, help that next generation. You've got everything they need that they don't have. And that's the one thing I say in the multi-generational workplace.
Every generation brings value to the workplace. Older generations, including Gen Xers, have a lot of contacts. They have a lot of experience. They have learned a lot. They have a lot of successes. Gen Z has none of that, by the way. They don't have many contacts. They lack experience and have not learned many lessons along the way. And so, that's where the give and take can be of help to the next generation. So, again, if you're a Gen Xer like me, pay it forward and help those who truly need it.
Christy L Honeycutt (39:04.328)
I really appreciate this great guidance. Thanks again, Mark.
Mark Beal (39:07.437)
Thank you, Christie.
Christy L Honeycutt (00:01.602)
Thank you for listening. I'm your host, Christy Honeycutt. Be sure to subscribe to Strategic Shift so you never miss an episode. And tune in next time as we continue to explore innovation in the future of work.
