40 The Power of Social Wellness with Becca Spahr

In this powerful conversation, Becky sits down with Marine Corps veteran and relational health coach Becca Spahr to explore an often overlooked pillar of leadership and well-being: social wellness.

After 20 years leading Marines in combat, Becca now teaches veterans, professionals, and leaders how to build belonging, strengthen friendships, and cultivate meaningful connection. Together, Becky and Becca unpack why connection is not optional for sustainable leadership and how neglecting it can quietly erode both personal fulfillment and professional longevity.

You’ll hear a deep dive into:

• What social wellness actually means and why research now places it alongside physical and mental health as a core pillar of overall well-being 
• The “friendship dip” many women experience from their late 20s into midlife and how it affects senior leaders
• How loneliness and isolation can show up subtly in high-achieving women
• Why connection is a leadership skill that directly impacts retention, performance, and sustainability 
• The difference between being interested and taking an interest in someone
• Practical strategies for building meaningful connection, even if you consider yourself introverted
• How to maintain professional boundaries while still creating relational trust at work
• The role of social media and virtual relationships in today’s connection landscape

If you are a woman leading a team, managing competing priorities, or navigating senior leadership in a male-dominated space, this episode offers practical tools and grounded insight to help you cultivate connection without compromising professionalism.

Because sustainable leadership depends on more than strategy. It depends on belonging.

Connect with Becca Spahr:
Website: https://beccaspahr.com
LinkedIn: Becca Spahr
Instagram: @beccaspahr

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Transcript

Rebecca Hamm 0:05

Welcome to Joyfully Unstoppable, the podcast for women who are ready to succeed without the stress. Whether you are leading a team, a classroom, a boardroom, or your own big, beautiful life, I am so glad you found us. I'm your host, Becky Hamm leadership coach, speaker and founder of Women Lead Well. Each week we'll explore what it means to lead joyfully, sustainably, and authentically. Even in a world that tells you to hustle harder and prove your worth, you carry a lot. Let's help it feel lighter. Y'all. I am so excited for today's episode. We have the great privilege of welcoming Becca Spar on the podcast. Becca is a Marine Corps veteran, certified relational health coach and a keynote speaker who works with veterans and military families to build belonging. Friendships and social confidence after service. Her work focuses on social wellness, the often overlooked skillset that allows people to thrive personally, professionally, and relationally. Becca, thank you so much for coming on the Joyfully Unstoppable Podcast.

Becca Spahr 1:14

Thanks Becky I'm really excited to be here

Rebecca Hamm 1:16

We're excited to have you here. And so to start, I wanna say, you know, stereotypically we wouldn't necessarily. Combine Marine Corps and social wellness together. And so can you help our listeners understand, um, how, what makes this topic so important to you, and how do these two things come together for you?

Becca Spahr 1:40

Well you are not the first person to give a little bit of pause I uh when I come out and say I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps leading Marines in combat and now I teach people to make friends uh because the two don't really seem like they go hand in hand but Really they do There's a lot more overlap than you would think And so when I retired from the Marine Corps and I had a little bit of time to catch my breath and think about what I really wanted to do uh it came down to Teaching people the skills that I I felt like I had through my through the my service and leading people Um the skills of how to be a good leader and to do that by tapping into the people component of it and and feeling connected to your team Building trust within your team building a sense of belonging for your team is huge Um so I I did actually start kind of in the leadership realm and then quickly realized this is this is all falling under the umbrella of social wellness which is important to us both in our personal and professional lives

Rebecca Hamm 2:48

Yeah. And tease out this idea of social wellness. What does that mean for someone who isn't familiar with the term?

Becca Spahr 2:55

The way I like to think about it is that if we just think of our like the picture of our overall health there are some pillars One of those pillars is our physical health So we need to be you know eating reasonably well moving our bodies getting enough sleep um doing preventative care that will keep us healthy for a long time Then the next pillar is our mental health and so that's Dealing with stress managing the things that you know our emotions that sometimes we feel good sometimes we feel bad but we try to kind of keep it somewhere in the middle and the things that we need to do to keep our health um our mental health Good The third pillar is becoming in um Really in in research and in academia is is becoming just as important as we learn more about it And that third pillar is our social wellness So social wellness is defined as The uh basically how well we are able to access the people and communities around us that give us support And so if you kind of do sort of a self-diagnosis you can think well how how good is my social wellness have uh a a group of friends around me who I can go to for emotional support but also to have fun Do I have a community around me where I feel like I have a sense of belonging and that I'm contributing something to this community I have people who Uplift me and who I feel like I could ask for help if I needed to One of one of my tests that I kind of joke with people is like I have someone I could ask to pull my trash cans to the curb if I was gonna be on vacation during trash day And if you don't you might need to make friends with some of your neighbors

Rebecca Hamm 4:43

Yeah. Oh, that's so important. You know, in a, in a previous life, I don't know, in a previous iteration, I did work in the area of moral injury. And so service members who had witnessed, experienced or done things that undermined their understanding of right and wrong and their ability to act as agents of good of, of the right in the world. And your point about community and feeling like you are contributing something to a community was one of the fundamentally most important elements of healing moral injury in people is it's, it's not what we think we think it is. Can I rely on other people to help me? But no, the key is do I feel like I can help others and am I putting myself in situations, um, in relationships where I am, where I feel like I am being of service and I'm helping other people? Yeah.

Becca Spahr 5:35

Yeah and a lot of people Don't have that Um or they they might have it in one one aspect of their life Like like professionally they do but they might not have it in in another realm like their personal life And that can really lean to big problems like depression and anxiety and isolating and substance abuse because if Feeling like you are contributing to something good is actually a fundamental human need And a lot of people don't think about it that way And so then when we don't have that that that is a need that isn't being met and then there are going to be problems

Rebecca Hamm 6:11

Right, and I would think I would be really interested in your thoughts on this. For women, we wear so many hats, right? So maybe we are a manager or supervisor or director or VP in our professional organization. We have leadership responsibilities and we might feel like we're doing good in the work that we do professionally. Personally, we've probably got responsibilities and that might be childcare. So raising our children, sorry, taking care of our families. I talk often on the podcast. I've got aging parents, so my parents are in their eighties and thankfully they're still around and we love that they're still here, but that is a layer of responsibility as well. I would be really interested. When I think of the work that I do to take care of my parents, or I think of the work that I do to take care of my kids, is that part of me seeing that I'm making a positive contribution or is that just one other task or responsibility or layer of stress? And I don't see it in that way.

Becca Spahr 7:11

I think it can be both or either or And it kind of depends on your mindset about it Um when you know I mean I'm a mom too I I get it Like yeah I'm I'm standing there loading the dishwasher thinking I didn't make these dishes Why am I the one cleaning them up But but you know on my good days I try to reframe it as I feel very lucky that I'm able to take care of my family that I'm even standing here and can be loading the dishwasher So you know finding um finding purpose in the mundane uh I think is a healthy uh Self-care tool to practice

Rebecca Hamm 7:49

Yeah.

Becca Spahr 7:50

it it helps you to kind of keep your mind right in terms of thinking through like okay there is a purpose to this day in and day out does get hard It sometimes can drag on I don't always wanna be doing this but overall it is you know for the good of people I love And so then it is purposeful

Rebecca Hamm 8:08

Oh, that's such a great point when we think of our professional lives. You had mentioned previously that connection is a leadership skill. Tease out what does that actually mean?

Becca Spahr 8:21

I love one of the things I really love about like the Basis of your coaching is that you teach people to be sustainable leaders which is huge And we don't I I think a lot of people don't think of sustainability as like a a facet of leadership but you know when I think of that word in in terms of a leader You know I think about like that's is creating systems and attitudes that allow you to not get burnt out because you wanna be a sustainable leader who's gonna last for you know what however long you have to endure doing this And um a key part of that is Feeling connected to the work that you're doing and the people that that are around you so um when we you know just like I said with those pillars of health physical mental and social when we let any one of those slip it is going to make our time as leaders unsustainable So you know we can think mental health is probably the easiest one to like wrap your head around there Like when you're um I don't know really stressed out because you've got these deadlines and these people who depend on you and profits you've gotta make and deadlines you've gotta meet your mental health starts to take a toll if if you don't have built in ways to keep yourself you know healthy mentally well It's the it's the same with your social wellness So if you don't have friend you can vent to on occasion or friends you can go out with just to kind of relax and have some time to yourself here and there that is gonna make your leadership unsustainable long term Your eventually it's gonna start to crumble around the edges

Rebecca Hamm 10:09

And what are some indicators that things are starting to crumble around the edges?

Becca Spahr 10:15

Boy that's a good that that could we could talk all day about that Um well one one thing that I see a lot and there is there is like scientific reasoning behind this but one thing I see a lot with the women who are let's say like mid-career professionals is that they have Put and and this is because they had to they have put their time into their families their jobs their partnerships sometimes like their parents their education they unfortunately the first thing that takes a backseat is their social life often And this is this is an an actual thing and it is called the friendship dip Yeah

Rebecca Hamm 11:01

Yeah.

Becca Spahr 11:02

right It is called research Researchers call it the Friendship Dip and it starts at about age 26 for most American women and it lasts into your mid forties into your fifties which is about the time that a lot of people's kids are starting to be a little bit more self-sufficient or maybe even leaving the parental home But then what happens You're at the end there and you're like wow I don't have any friends I haven't really had any friends for 20 years because I have been putting all of my energy into all of these other things because I had to But now we see things and this is to answer your question the the the symptoms we see are Feeling lonely feeling depressed feeling anxious um feeling see a lot of people I was just talking about this the other day A lot of people you know will have a partner a spouse and they say well my husband is my best friend And that is fantastic You absolutely should have a very very tight and intimate intimate relationship with your partner But if you don't also have friends You're putting all your eggs in one basket and that can be dangerous in a number of ways and may also very likely leave you feeling un unfulfilled in in some ways So those are those are the symptoms that I see Is is that like the loneliness the feeling like you missed out like you're um just sort of a one-woman show and you don't have people around you who are supportive

Rebecca Hamm 12:35

Yeah, I can see that and I can absolutely see that with mid-level senior level women who, um, I. Might not have many peers that they could turn to to serve as that trusted advisor or to blow off steam or to get just feedback from. Um, they might have male counterparts who are peers to them, and that's a great relationship too. I'm not knocking it, but it's just a different type of a relationship than if you're connected with other women. And that just has to do with a number of women who are in more senior leadership roles. Significantly more women at junior levels of leadership. But as you know, the more senior you get, um, the more male dominated the leadership space is.

Becca Spahr 13:19

Mm-hmm

Rebecca Hamm 13:19

that's fascinating. Yeah. I wanna ask you though about the flip side of that coin. I have talked to a few women, it's just come up lately in conversations, some more junior, but a number of them were senior who self-identify to say, I struggle. To make meaningful connection at work because I'm afraid of being seen as. Maybe less professional or I don't wanna be in a relationship. If I'm doing performance evaluations on someone and they think we're buddy buddy, then I feel like I can't give them the corrective feedback that they might need to improve their performance. So how do you walk that line as a woman between building those connections in our professional life while maintaining that professional distance or those professional boundaries?

Becca Spahr 14:10

That's really nuanced and that's a good question Um and of course there's a lot of different variables here You know what you know how many peers do you even have within your organization that are sort of same level as you um in terms of like position or authority or whatever Um and uh you know I don't know The type of industry you're in whether you work with men or women that kind of thing But um I would say I mean ideally you would have people who you work with who um are you know at at a right about the same level So it's not like a supervisory type of relationship You don't wanna be friends with the people you supervise be as you just mentioned that can get messy real fast but you know if if ideally if you are in an organization where there are enough people that you can also have friends who are about the same level as you that's really ideal Is it common Not necessarily And the higher you get the less and less common it is So you know work may not be the place to have your good friends Um it is easy to meet people at work beca or easier because you're there you know you're interacting with these people on a regular basis So if that was the issue I would encourage if I had a client come to me like that I would encourage them to look for friends in other other places You know join a club Join a book club volunteer Um You know talk to people you see at the gym that kind of thing but what what I So then then when you are in a less than ideal situation at work and you have subordinates who you want to be connected to first of all yes you should be connected to the people who work for you and with you that research shows that that improves your work performance your quality of life retention things like that It's good for businesses when have quote unquote friends at work Um as long as you're careful about it uh but when you are thinking about if you're the leader and you wanna feel connected to your people What I encourage people to do and I give workshops on this um I I I usually will do an exercise where I where we work through what are the traits that you look for in a friend And people call call out things like well I want em to be honest I want em to be good listeners I wanna have fun with them Uh they have to be um You know trustworthy I reliable things like that And I say okay what do you want your boss to be like And they'll say a lot of the same things I've gotta be able to trust em They have to be reliable I wanna be a good listener The one that doesn't come up with a boss is being fun Nobody really is looking for their boss to be very fun Um You know and so that's kind of highlights the difference between a friendship like a professional relationship so when you are if if you're the leader and you're like okay well I wanna be connected to my people but I don't wanna cross that line like you just said or I don't wanna be seen as unprofessional or whatever This is terrible to say but take the fuck out of it you know you can still be friendly You can be friendly and you can joke but we're not going out for drinks on a regular basis You know we're not being buddy buddy We're not sharing any kind of like inappropriate stories or anything like that because then you're entering the friend zone and if you want to maintain your authority as the boss or the leader you can't be tiptoeing in that pool

Rebecca Hamm 17:52

Yeah, and I think it's. What I had tried to do myself is I'm gonna ask about your family because I'm gonna show that I care about you as a human, right? So I'll ask about the kids, I'll ask about the spouse. I'll ask about your weekend. You know, like, but I'm not going to try to participate in that part of your life,

Becca Spahr 18:14

Yeah

Rebecca Hamm 18:14

So I'll show a healthy interest and I'll remember those sort of things. So you feel cared for, but. But info, but for information only. I don't know how, how to say that. Yeah.

Becca Spahr 18:25

Yeah One one other kind of tactic or trick that I teach people is to look for bumper stickers and a bumper sticker It could quite literally be a sticker on their car that indicates something they're interested in or it might be um you know like something they have on the wall of their cubicle like a picture or a magazine they have laying on their desk or something like that And it indicates The things that the person has interest in and are willing to discuss publicly Because if if you put a bumper sticker on your car you're not trying to keep it a secret that you hiked the Appalachian Trail You would probably love it if someone came up and struck a a conversation about hiking with you Um or if you have you know I don't know a picture of your cat at your desk then okay cool Cats are on the table Let's talk about cats so that's just sort of like an easy way to sort of see what what you're in might be Um I probably would not fish around on social media for those kinds of things cause even though it's social and open to potentially the entire world that's still like kind of private at the same time But but yeah if they're putting it out there then those are okay Things to talk about You know like you said a family a lot of people have a picture of kids on the desk or a a a their kids drew or something like that Yeah that's pretty safe

Rebecca Hamm 19:47

Yeah. Well, and I was gonna ask about social media twofold. Your point about how do we relate to, um, our team members on social media, what, what is appropriate connection there, but what are your thoughts more broadly? Can we. Develop and sustain meaningful connection through our online relationships. Or when you talk about our social wellness and building connection, are you really talking about face-to-face interaction with people?

Becca Spahr 20:16

Um well I'll Answer the first part of that first cause it's a little bit shorter which is when you're talking about like an employee boss relationship social media probably should not be involved in that Just best to stay away from it Some companies even have policies about it Um like think about like educators you know they're not allowed to be friends with The students that they teach cause hello red flags Um or in the military you know it's it's like that too You would need to be really careful with that but in terms of the way that we relate to people social media is here to stay Having an online presence is here to stay and gone Gone are the days where You only have face-to-face interaction with people so I say embrace it Uh there are more and more everyday ways that you can interact with people and it still counts if you're hanging out with someone via whatever platform And it's a it's just it's a camera that still counts as hanging out Um that's the only way I would ever see my friend in California

Rebecca Hamm 21:29

Yeah. Right.

Becca Spahr 21:30

I've seen her once in the last like 10 years in face-to-face

Rebecca Hamm 21:34

Yeah.

Becca Spahr 21:35

but we can talk online Um my brother has a group of guys that he meets with like it's like every other Friday or something and they just they've got their Hollywood squares on the computer screen and they all sit there and whatever you know I don't know what they do or what they talk about but that's how they hang out And so I would say that the face-to-face is Overall better because there are a lot of little we do as humans that you don't get when there's a a screen in between you everything from like the little gestures um to like the pheromones that a person has like we are our brains are constantly gathering information and when you're when you're face to face you you're gathering a lot more if you have a screen but when face-to-face isn't possible because of distance or time or something like COVID it's it's an okay enough standin And so if that's the only way that you're able to have human connection then yes I would say still try to do that

Rebecca Hamm 22:43

Yeah, I think that's so important. What is one, you have mentioned a few things, but I just wanna to be very clear for the listeners. So if they self-identify as someone who maybe needs to cultivate connection, I wanna give them very practical, kind of a, a checklist of options that they could try or things that they could do. What are one or two, three things that women could do to help build that connection? Once they hear this podcast and they go on with their lives?

Becca Spahr 23:15

Yeah Alright so many things come to mind but I'll I'll pick out a few These are the ones that I hear myself saying over and over again Um so one is that and this applies in in friendship type of relationships romantic relationships work type of relationships is Taking an interest in people you'll hear hear people say like oh you should be curious about other people That would be synonymous with what I'm saying Um and there is a difference between being interested in someone and taking an interest in someone Uh so Interest more generally is showing a person that you about what they have to say You're curious about what they have to say that makes you feel good When you're when you're on when you're the person that someone else is interested in it starts to light up all the different Pleasure centers of your brain and you think wow they like me and wow they want to hear more about me And maybe you don't get excited about it but you leave with like a good feeling You get that good impression Oh gosh Becky is really nice you know she asked me all about my vacation and she really seemed like she wanted to hear about it And then I felt good cause I got to talk about something that made me feel good Like we're all feeling good here So Then Then if we kind of break interest down I think of it as there is interest where you are being interested and interest where you are taking an interest Being interested is a is easier to achieve It's a little bit lower level it looks like um know asking questions having a friendly conversation um wanting to know more about the person but on kind of a more surface level And that's fine when you're initially interacting with someone Yes that's what it's gonna look like Uh people who you don't know very well it you're gonna stay in the being interested Category

Rebecca Hamm 25:11

Yeah.

Becca Spahr 25:12

That's what acquaintances are When you go into taking an interest into someone that's taking the relationship that next step So maybe now you're getting into the actual like being friends with someone Um it's it's like if it's an employee kind of relationship it's more than just like Hey how was your weekend One sentence back great see you later But it's Asking them about their goals What are you know what are you trying to accomplish next professionally How can I help you get there Are there any introductions I could make Um you know or or what they're interested in personally Like oh hey I know you were gonna you signed up for that marathon How's the training going And you know how you know so it's it's remembering and following up and you're building that relationship So taking an interest is like a deeper level of that So if I had to give one tip it would be the being interested being curious for people

Rebecca Hamm 26:09

I think that's so important. I'm gonna ask for a follow on tip, and that would be for our listeners who are more introverted or shy and the showing an interest. Having an interest, taking an interest that. Feels there's a lot of barrier to that. Do you have any recommendations for what can, can help it feel, help mo re reduce that barrier, help it feel more doable?

Becca Spahr 26:34

Yeah the idea of introversion and extroversion is something I think about a lot probably more than I should Uh I think that we have this idea you know cause you can take these personality tests and and know yourself and et cetera et cetera Um And sometimes I think a lot of times people are labeled as an introvert and then they they just accept it and roll with it So one one element to that is that you can change over time Just because you were an introvert when you took a personality test when you were 12 does not mean that you have to still be an introvert when you're 45 You I'm not gonna say you I'm not saying you're doing like a complete 180 but there are degrees to introversion and extroversion that you can practice and change Um and the other thing about introversion and extroversion I think people get the definition wrong and it it really what it comes down to is how you draw energy from other people So after you are around people a lot Uh and like interacting talking whatever Having a conversation Do you feel drained and like you need to recharge or do you feel like yes let's keep going So the people who feel like okay I need a minute to recharge are the introverts and the people who are just like yes give me more I love this I just wanna keep talking to people and being around people Those are the extroverts again it's a spectrum I talk to a lot of people who can be extroverted for a while They can be extroverted at a party but then they go home and they have to like chill out for a solid 12 hours before they can do that again kind of how more how I am Um but okay but so tips for introverts One don't don't let the personality test that said that you were an introvert Wreck your social life for the rest of eternity Be because okay it's not gonna come as easy to you that just means that you have to work a little bit harder I liken it to people who are not athletic aren't gonna have as easy a time picking up a basketball and playing basketball with their buddies right They're maybe they're not as coordinated or they don't have the endurance or whatever Whereas there are people who just like can can jump in a game and be be happy and whatever but if you practice it and you do it more still are probably never gonna be Michael Jordan but you can get to a point where it's more comfortable for you by practicing these skills By looking for ways to be interested using the bumper stickers that I talked about Come up with one open-ended question you can ask So open-ended meaning you're not just gonna get a yes or a no or one word you you're gonna get like a sentence back up with an open-ended question ask it Do that again Follow up with another open-ended question Do that three times So now you have invested three questions from your brain into this conversation by then you're in a conversation And at that point it's becoming a lot more easy that back and forth where you are You know you have this volley of ideas going back and forth with another person So I I try to tell that to people who feel like they're shy or they don't know what to say at first Um just lead with an open-ended um question And then alternately if you don't do that a compliment can often also get you in the door Um and That first compliment I I do people do prefer compliments that are um like well thought out and that compliment them as like a person versus just like something superficial But for that initial compliment if that's what you got totally fine Oh my gosh I love your glasses Those are so cute Where did you get those or um I don't know Uh How that's a nice car How do you like that How do you like your car You know And then they'll talk talk about their car So looking for little ways that you can spark a conversation is is helpful Mm-hmm

Rebecca Hamm 30:55

That is fantastic. Thank you, Becca. I appreciate that and I think a lot of the women listening are gonna appreciate that as well. So before we wrap, where can listeners find you if they would like to learn more about your work?

Becca Spahr 31:07

My the easiest probably the easiest place to find me is my website which is my name becca spar.com Um I'm also pretty active on LinkedIn also Becca Spar and then I do Instagram too Um so any of those places Um a lot of my business is speaking so I float float around um to conferences Uh I also do like professional development training so if people are interested in hearing me speak or bringing me in to speak um definitely reach out I I answer all my dms and emails and everything so definitely I would love to hear from you and and what we could learn from each other

Rebecca Hamm 31:45

Great. Well, Becca, thank you so much for coming on the show. You have really helped my own thinking about the importance of connection and community and leadership and how to cultivate. That and sustain it over time, and I know that the listeners got a lot out of it as well, and so. If 2026 has felt a little bit chaotic, and I will confess it has felt a little bit chaotic for me, I hope you'll join me next week when we'll be exploring best practices for leading through uncertainty. How to lead when you don't have all the answers, you won't wanna miss it. Now if this episode has spoken with Tu, I would love for you to share it with a friend. We need more women leading with connection and a commitment. And please don't forget to like and subscribe. And if you could leave a review, I would really, really appreciate it. Building those reviews on Spotify, apple, and YouTube really does help a little podcast like mine to get some traction and get shown to more women who could benefit from it. Also, you can always grab one of our free resources like Tame Your Inner Critic, the Weekly Reset Routine, and the Mental Load Reset. All of that's available on the Women Lead Well website, and I'll link 'em in the show notes below. Remember, joyful, sustainable and authentic leadership is possible and you deserve to enjoy every minute of it. Until next time. I'm Becky Hamm and this is joyfully Unstoppable.