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Wakulla County Stories You Were Never Taught!
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A TIME CAPSULE BURIED IN 1976 IS ABOUT TO BE OPENED IN WAKULLA COUNTY! ⏳👀
On this episode of The BlueWater Podcast, Brent Thurmond, President of the Wakulla County Historical Society, shares three fascinating historical stories that happened right here in Wakulla County.
He also talks about the time capsule buried at the Wakulla County Courthouse in 1976 - which will be opened on July 2, 2026 at 5:30 PM before a new one is buried until 2076.
Local history, unforgettable stories, and a once-in-a-lifetime moment for Wakulla County. 💙
🎙️ Watch the full episode and make sure to FOLLOW BlueWater for more conversations like this!
Every community doesn't have an organization like a historical society, but there are a good many of them around, and we have had a nonprofit organization here for about 35 years in Wakullah. Why is it important for somebody to understand the history of this area? I tell people often you don't have to be here for generations to love the history of this county, but I do have that background, and I can't help but believe I probably love it a little bit more. One of the things you should be able to learn from history is to appreciate the sacrifice of people that helped you become what you are. A big part of the fascination of this story is what happens when they get out there. There's essentially four guys that survived the first few weeks out there in Texas area.
SPEAKER_01Being a politician for 24 years, what's the best thing about being in that elected official, in your opinion?
SPEAKER_02And the worst thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so best thing and the worst thing. So I've known you my whole life, but uh um tell us tell us a little bit about go back to your go back to your childhood. You got a leg, you're really a legacy family here in Walcala. So for those that don't know about the Thurman family, tell us a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_00Well, I've been very blessed to have a wonderful family. Um, and my mother's family has been in W'Acula for almost 200 years. They got here at least one line of the family got here in 1830. My father has gotten to know a lot of people down through the years, and we've lived here uh almost 60 years uh in Wakullah, but uh used to live in Tallahassee in my early years. So my father got to know a lot of people working in the school system, started the adult education program, the pre-K program, and was principal twice at the high school. Just he just had a lot of people skills, and so I had kind of the best of both worlds, got a lot of people skills and uh contact and all from my dad's career. He was later on the clerk of court before I ran. Then um my mother's family having been here just gave me a really deep love for the community and for its history. And I tell people often uh you don't have to be here for generations to love the history of this county, but I do have that background and I and I can't help but believe I probably love it a little bit more than I would otherwise.
SPEAKER_01So Well, it takes a it takes a special person to take history and make it interesting. You know, sometimes history can bore folks. I've heard you talk, I've heard you tell some stories about Wokala County's history, and uh it is the way you tell it, the way you communicate it. Maybe it maybe it's because you're so passionate about it, but it's interesting. I know you go around the local clubs and events. I know you've spoken at uh, you know, a number of different places. But uh but before we get into and I know we're gonna talk about that today. I'm excited. We're gonna hear your, I want to hear the Brent Thurman top three Waucala County historical stories. So I have no clue what you're gonna share with us, but I'm excited about that. And then Molly's gonna uh Molly's gonna hit you with some tough, tough questions at the end. Since you were a previous politician, you shouldn't have any problems with those. She's gonna put you in the hot seat with in our lightning round. But before that, you were you you were clerk of court. What what was your uh how many years were you clerk?
SPEAKER_00I was the clerk for 24 years. I was elected in 1996 and uh retired really the first week in January of 2021, but practically speaking, you might say just at the end of 2020. End of 2020. Do you miss being in politics? I don't miss being in politics. Uh I miss interacting with people. Uh, you know, I met a lot of people in that capacity, and probably the number one area I met people in was calling people in for jury duty. I always tried to be there and welcome them in and make them feel comfortable about coming in for jury duty because a lot of people weren't all that thrilled about having to miss work or whatever to come in for that. So I I met a lot of people in that capacity, and and interestingly, it gave me a perspective on the history because of the fact that the clerk's office keeps a lot of the official records and the land records and all that. However, rarely did I have any time to look into these fascinating records because I was busy doing my job and and didn't really have an opportunity to do a lot of digging uh into those records, but it kept me kind of connected with that part of history of the county.
SPEAKER_01So uh we've had a we we have cycled through a lot of you know folks running at the local and national uh state level uh to hold various political offices. So um we've had a lot of those come in. Just yesterday we had uh uh someone in who's gonna be running for a high level office out of DC. So uh being a politician for twenty twenty-four years, what's the uh what's the best thing about being in that an elected official in your opinion?
SPEAKER_02And the worst thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a best thing and the worst thing.
SPEAKER_00It's a privilege uh to serve the public and I think a public office is a public trust. So I believe that uh it's an honor to r fulfill a a public trust office, and then it's just a a real privilege to serve people and try to look for ways that you can uh help them, um you know, put them at ease, um anything you can do to try to do the job you're there to do, but but help the folks that are interacting with your office and that type of thing uh is a good thing. Um I would say that uh probably the the m less pleasant aspects of a job like that are occasionally, believe it or not, you'll run into somebody that's unreasonable and they would expect that you could just you know snap your fingers and everything would uh with their legal case or whatever would be completely resolved and that type of thing. So there's a there's never um never any really bad you know situations, but uh there's there was an unpleasant side to that. And every now and then somebody would take a shot and write a letter to the editor or something like that. And but I feel like God prepared me before I got there to thicken my skin up just a little bit so that I could roll right on along and not pay a whole lot of attention to something. I'm pretty big on self-examining myself and and critiquing how I do things and how I say things and that type of thing. Anyway, so uh if you if you're already doing that, then you don't have to worry too much about somebody uh being a critic because you're already kind of trying to be a positive uh uh constructive critic of yourself.
SPEAKER_01So I think you whatever you brought in to be in office as long as you did, or as long as you were in office, um, and everybody that I that I just for you to have done what you were able to accomplish in that office and um is is really rare, uh, with as little controversy because I think the whole county got was beh you know, uh for the most part behind you. And but you know what though, it wasn't just before you became clerk. You've always loved Walcala County and you've always given and you all you were always serving people. That's just I rem I mean I could we were telling talking about some things earlier, even as far back as I can remember, you were all what you've always wanted to to um help people, to build them up, to teach people. And I was one of those as a young, young, young boy. I remember you doing some of that with me.
SPEAKER_03So I have a quick question, and I might be wrong, but you're involved with uh uh Wakulla County Theater, right?
SPEAKER_00I have done some of those productions and just concluded uh being a part of the Annie production and uh enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_03Uh so it's I went to one of the shows. I can't I don't know if you were in it. It was uh what what Greece? Did we go to Greece? You were I think it was Greece.
SPEAKER_00I was not in Greece, but I did attend that. And and uh Is this the first one you've been in? No, um no. Interestingly, I never really had any desire to be in any of the plays, and I certainly didn't care a lot about musicals because I'm not a singer, but I had told my kids because they were like, you should be in a play sometime. So I told my kids, and this is about 20 years ago probably. I said, Well, if they ever do the sound of music, I might be interested in that because that's a very cool story. And you know, we used to watch that movie uh as a family, and so you know, lo and behold, a couple years later they do the sound of music, and I said, Okay, I'll go do it. And then I did another uh play right after that, Hello Dolly. And then they went through a long period where there was no one to lead the theater. The other lady had, after many, many years, had graciously uh stepped down and no one was available for quite a while there, and and then uh Mina Morrison Sutton uh stepped up and revived this. And so since she's been involved, I've been in um Annie most recently, and then before that who did who did you play?
SPEAKER_03Sorry to interrupt in Annie.
SPEAKER_00Um I played uh Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the president of the United States, who is um involved in the story. Annie is kind of one of those people like Forrest Gump that she just happens to be at the right place at the right time, and she gets invited to a cabinet meeting and and ends up inspiring the president, the whole cabinet. So it's a very funny little cute storyline there, uh, for sure. But yeah, I I enjoyed that, met some great people, got some really good talent in this community. The little girl that did Annie lives in Crawfordville, and I would be willing to say that she has got as much talent in that role as anybody that's done that role anywhere in the United States. She was awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So what has this been your most favorite? What's what's been your most favorite production play to begin with?
SPEAKER_00I was in a nine to five about a year ago, and and I enjoy that. I've enjoyed all of them. Um each one's a just a little bit different, you know, it's a different cast of characters, and you'll meet a few new people. Um, I really probably, as far as the storyline, still like the sound of music storyline because it's kind of historic, you know, with World War II and and uh all that going on um as far as the the storyline itself. Um but I I think Annie is a very cute and catchy story, and if it comes back again, I I would encourage the public to go and see it if whether it's the high school or the community theater or whoever does it, because it's a it's a very cute little story.
SPEAKER_03I did drama in high school and I played one of the orphans in Annie.
SPEAKER_00It is a great story. Well, my son was in Annie with me uh 25 years ago. My two daughters were orphans in the original community theater production of this. So I told several people, but the the most ironic part is that the only person in our family that has never been into Annie play is my wife Anne, who I many times recall her Annie, as uh just a nice little She has to do it one day. She's gonna have to do it the next time around.
SPEAKER_01Hey, you know what? Every now and then, what I like about that is every now and then you just gotta put yourself out there, don't you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So what I'm thinking is next production.
SPEAKER_01I'll do it. I'll write. Keep doing it. You gotta get some young folks in it. Okay. Um, so tell us about um some people may not even be aware there's a historical society that we have. So say if tell t tell us a little bit about the historical society, where your uh where your museum or where your uh offices are, and then we'll we'll get into some fun stories.
SPEAKER_00Very good. Yes. Um, so um every community doesn't have uh an organization like a historical society, but there are there are a good many of them around, and we have had a nonprofit organization here for about 35 years in Wakullah, and um it our organization is just a very low budget organization. We we survive on donations and very uh very reasonable uh annual dues for people to support us. Uh we have monthly meetings nine months of the year. We take off June, July, and August. So we just had our last monthly meeting until next September. But we have monthly meetings and we'll usually have speakers, but we try to do some different kinds of things. So I can tell you that over this past year uh we've and we usually meet at the Wakala Library, but we also try to meet at least once a year in a location other than the library that is relevant to the subject. So, like this last year we had a program on the St. Mark School, which actually served as a first grade through eighth grade school for uh 30-some years, I think. And then it became a an adult education center, and then it became a uh charter school. So that that was a cool program, and we had a lot of older folks that were in elementary school there. I think we had one guy that had gone to school there that was about ninety three. And so he had been in the, you know, back in the World War II days, he had been a student there. So it's very, very good programs. Um sometimes it'll just be a single speaker, but we have a lot of good stuff. So we're gonna have, for instance, the program we have coming up in September, supposed to be at the Crawfordville Women's Club, and we have a historic fashion show. So it's a high T slash fashion show, and we've got some people coming from uh Mission San Luis with the way back colonial and Appalachian period of our history in the area. We've got uh some folks coming from the Riley House. Uh we've got a group that's also coming, and some of these people are modeling uh period clothing and that type of thing. But there's a group called Theater with a mission that does a lot of historic um productions, and so they're gonna help us, and then I guess we'll have some local people, you know, model some different things. But this one's kind of different because it's a fundraiser. All of our meetings, uh other than something real rare like this, um, maybe the first time we've ever had something that there's an admission, but um, all of our meetings are free and open to the public. You don't have to be a member of the society or anything like that. But this one is a fundraiser. We debated about whether to have a regular meeting that was still free and all that, but we we said let's just make this our September meeting. So looking forward to that. I think that'll be pretty interesting as well.
SPEAKER_01And where's your office located?
SPEAKER_00So the Historical Society operates as a they have an office and have a little museum right there behind the courthouse on High Drive. Uh it's the old two-story uh original jail that was built in 1948, back when uh the original courthouse was built in the same time frame. And so the Historical Society museum hours are Thursdays and Fridays 10 to 4, Saturdays 10 to 2, and then occasionally we'll have a special event there.
SPEAKER_01So why is it important? Why is it important for somebody to understand the history of this area?
SPEAKER_00I think history is entertaining, even if it didn't have any other value. Um, but I think it has value as well because I think you a you learn from history, and one of the things you should be able to learn from history is to appreciate the sacrifice of people that helped you become what you are. So as a as a kid, I re really appreciate my elementary school teachers, my Wokala High School teachers, my professors in college. Um, and as a community, we kind of we kind of have the same appreciation for ancestors and pioneers that were here and helped kind of scratch out a existence when it was very difficult. Uh people that live here now don't really grasp, but for many years hardly anybody moved into Wakulla County. In 1900, there was about 5,000 people in Wakula County. In 1970, there's about 5,000 people in Wakula County. It grew very little. And so the idea that we're growing and we're well-liked and a desirable place to live, it wasn't always that way. So I have a tremendous amount of respect as I learn stories from history to realize how you know challenging it was to make things work here and to get us to the point where we could succeed and now have a very, very nice community. I mean, when I was in high school, you know, people looked down on you if you had Waokola on your tag, but now everybody's kind of like, oh, Wa'Cola, that's kind of a happening place down there. I know a bunch of people that moved over there.
SPEAKER_01All right, let me test your historical knowledge. The first fast food restaurant. What was the first fast food restaurant ever to come to Crawford?
SPEAKER_00I think it's Hardy's.
SPEAKER_01Hardy's that was it.
SPEAKER_00What's really interesting is Hardy's actually had a really good bucket of chicken in their early days. I don't even know if they have chicken, that fried chicken now, but they did back in the day.
SPEAKER_03They have the best biscuits.
SPEAKER_00They do have very good breakfast. Um I eat uh a hamburger there every now and then, but the breakfast is what I would mostly go there for these days. Um but yeah, we we lived close enough to walk over there when my kids were growing up.
SPEAKER_01So do you remember the first stoplight that was put in Crawfordville?
SPEAKER_00I do remember uh uh they had a caution light up at the block some cutoff, I think, you know, for probably most of my life. Um I do remember that when they put the stoplight in uh at the courthouse, for instance, that it was it was not uncommon for people to run through it because they just weren't used to a stoplight being there. But I remember, and I'm not sure, but I kind of think we only had one stoplight when I ran for clerk of court in the 90s. And I don't know, we got eight or nine of them now, I think. Um I don't want to count them actually. So um, but uh I try not to think about them any more than I have to. But yeah, those are those are some little benchmarks of how a community grows and changes, and we've definitely got some stoplight actually.
SPEAKER_01We do, and we're on the I didn't realize that the the span there that where there was a long period where Crawfordville, Walkala County was not growing.
SPEAKER_00And uh Oh, it was it was I mean, it that was 70 years in my example there. I think it it it grew a few hundred people between 1900 and 1970, uh, but less than a thousand people came into the county.
SPEAKER_03That's crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think it's good about history too, is there's a lot we can learn, you know, where we don't repeat the same mistakes sometimes. Learn from the past. And uh and Waucala County has a rich, and I've learned a lot of this from you, has such a rich history and entertaining. You're right. Even if you're even if you don't like, even if you're not a history buff, some of these stories are just fascinating and and entertaining. Okay, so that brings us to this. I have no idea what you're gonna talk to us about, but um should we start with like his should we do one, two, three, or three, two, one, top three, just top three?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm gonna start with the oldest one of them. The oldest one. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00All right. So and so this one is just fascinating in that it puts us in kind of rare air. And in two years, we will be celebrating the 500th anniversary of a Spanish expedition that came not just through this area, but that ended up making some very crucial decisions and in, in essence, setting up a k a little community for a few months in what is now Wacula County. Uh there was a Spanish expedition that that quote unquote discovered Florida in 1513 and Ponce de Leon and all of those uh neat facts. And then there had been a Spanish expedition come and they do a little exploration around 1521, but I don't think they did a whole lot. And then this group was 600 men strong, and they they left Havana, Cuba. So Havana had been kind of established and set up by the Spanish before anything really happened on any of the mainland. Uh, and so but they had sent an expedition. I think a year or two before this one over to Mexico. And everybody was looking for fame and fortune. Everybody wanted to become famous and rich and discover gold. And so they they knew that you had it made if you uh could bring back the king of your country a land that they could claim and a a bunch of riches, and you know, people would talk about you for generations. And so so um this Narvaez guy um led this expedition. Originally there were 600 people signed up to be on this expedition. They they sailed in some ships and they ended up leaving the ships in what is now Tampa Bay area, and they came ashore and they began to try to talk to and and ask natives about where can we find some gold. And of course, they they weren't really um able to communicate real well, but apparently all the natives A weren't all that impressed with the visitors' disposition because they didn't act like it's good to be here. We're so glad to be here on your territory here, they acted like, hey, we're from Spain, tell us tell us where the gold is. Uh we got guns. So but they kept sending them north. They kept sending them north. And so over the weeks of trudging through swamps and having Indian attacks, uh which which probably were deserved in in many cases, to be honest, um, this little this group of Spanish expeditions uh explorers uh had come up to the area around Tallahassee where this is this is the place they had been told all along to come to, and there is no gold. Now they did grow a lot of corn, which was kind of a you know golden-colored, but I don't know for sure if the natives down there were trying to actually help them by saying maybe they're looking for that corn that they grow so abundantly, because the Appalachian Indians, which were here in Wakola and and all the way up in South Georgia at that time, certainly were very good in agricultural practices. Or the fact that the Appalachian were probably the the most feared warriors amongst all the natives, might have also been why they were sending them up here. So they said, we have got some people you have got to meet up there. They've got gold. Yeah. Um, that's a fascinating story. And so we're we're going to celebrate the 500th anniversary of this expedition because what they did when they gave up on the gold quest is they the last little community they came to was somewhere down in the area close to St. Mark's uh Appalachie community. Uh they were they were not finding any gold. They had they were supposed to meet their ships up here. Their ships were supposed to come and wait offshore for them. And apparently there was confusion because there were no maps or anything at that point. So there was confusion about which area the ships were supposed to meet them. So the ships apparently went somewhere and never heard from them. And they they're camped out in what is now the the confluence of the Wakullah and St. Mark's River, what's now the St. Mark's Fort area. They're camped out there, and after a while they say, you know, I don't think the ships are coming. They're not coming for it. So they m they built ships, and those ships that they built there were the first first of anything really built, but certainly the first ships built in the New World. And so uh they were determined to try to to try to go on their boats back to some form of civilization. And uh unfortunately a hurricane comes along after they get out in open water, and by the time they are washed up uh and the storm has pushed them all these hundreds of miles, they're over there around the border of Louisiana, Texas area. There's maybe a couple dozen of them left that weren't even all together, but they eventually connected with each other. But over the course of the next ten years, such an unusual part of the story, and of course, this starts starts out kind of with them camping here, but it's a big part of the fascination of this story is what happens when they get out there. There's essentially four guys that survived the first few weeks out there in the Texas area. And but the natives there, you know, go from enslaving them and treating them poorly till they escaped, and then all of a sudden they run into another tribe that didn't like the other tribe, and they this tribe is like, wow, these people's skin is so different from ours, and one of them is an African, and three of them are Spaniards, and they don't look the same as us. We've never seen anything like this. These must be sent from God. These guys wanted to get back to civilization, but every time they turned around, the natives were saying, Man, you've got to come over to my cousin's village because they want to see the people that are here from God, that God sent these messengers to us or whatever. So, and of course, everybody involved with the Spanish government at some level had a Catholic um background and uh allegiance, and uh they were expected, you know, to help uh spread the gospel and that type of thing. I'm not saying all of these explorers were that way, but they they certainly capitalized that and it took them ten years of wandering around before they finally wandered down into Mexico, and by this time they were eventually able to make contact with some Spaniards that had come down there and set up. So it's a very fascinating story.
SPEAKER_01So how long did they, how long were they here, how long were they in St. Mark's?
SPEAKER_00They were they were only here, I think, three or four months uh of time. And they built ships here. And they built some ships. They were probably like boats rather than ships, but uh they built those. Um they ended up having to, and to avoid starvation and all, they ended up converting their horses into food. Um, and they they fashioned uh some nails and other materials that they could use for the ships out of some of their iron um tools and weapons and so forth that they had there. So it's just a very fascinating story, and we're looking forward to trying to put on some type of a series of some events, and probably will maybe even start somewhere in the late 2027, but certainly early 2028. There's a little group that's working on this, and we're hoping to even get some of the Appalachian Indian people to come here because for a long time everybody thought the Appalachian Indian was Appalachi Indian tribe was just like a lot of the other native groups, they had essentially just disappeared. Uh disease decimated them tremendously. I mean, they say there were 60,000 Appalachi in this whole area here around Wakulla, Tallahassee, and just into the edge of southern Georgia uh when the Europeans came, but diseases and so forth that they had no immunity for really cut them down. So it turns out there are some Appalachi that kept kept trying to get away from more, you know, uh oppression and and all, and they kept moving further and farther into the Spanish territory west until they ended up out in Louisiana. And that's where this remnant who's kind of who's who's not officially recognized and because they kind of kept this to themselves, I mean their culture was like, we've been persecuted and chased all over. We're not gonna we're not gonna bring this back up for a good while. So but I have some information now to get a hold of them and we hope to invite some of them to be here for this whole thing. We hope to have some reenactments and just some fun things to focus on, this amazing history, because there's there's nobody that is gonna be able St. Augustine can't celebrate, they will have their 500th anniversary for for that town uh in 15, I mean in 2066 or something like that, 65, 66, something like that. Now, this is not a town, but it's kind of a temporary village anyway. So it's worth celebrating and worth bringing some attention.
SPEAKER_01And so how many, and so what was the date? When did this happen? Estimated? 1528 is when the 1528. So that is per is that pre Yeah, that's that's before St.
SPEAKER_00August that's so St. Augustine had been, I mean, Ponce de Leon landed over there somewhere, but this I guess this is just kind of unique because even though it wasn't like they said we're gonna go set up a little town, they kind of set up a little community, a little village, and they didn't just move from place to place every couple of days like expeditions did. Yeah. Um, and then later on, DeSoto came here about 20 years later, he came through here, and his expedition went way on up into these Appalachian Mountains in the south, and then went on over into uh I think he I think he made it all the way over to the Mississippi River, and De Soto, I think, died during that expedition over there close to the Spanish.
SPEAKER_01How many of the original 600 Spaniards did they lived?
SPEAKER_00Only four. Only four of the 600.
SPEAKER_01They're the ones who made it down into Mexico. Okay. I've never I've lived here my whole life. I've never heard that story. I'm excited about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's I'll tell you one other tragic element to that story, and that is one of the four was an African, and he was enslaved to his Spanish master, which was which was in this expedition. And um, and even though he had this marvelous, and probably he probably played a huge role in them getting special treatment and treated almost like divine uh by the natives out there because of his skin color. Because of his skin color. But when he got back to Spain, he was put back in bondage. It's kind of a sad it's kind of a sad thing because you would think if people could have ever earned their freedom, he'd be a hero. But you know, it is unfortunate, but that's just that's just part of history, and it's a history that every culture has had enslaved people. I mean, it's estimated that um the natives uh here had about one-third of their total population enslaved, and a lot of that was just you conquer a village and you you bring all their people and women and children, whatever, back, you know. But um it's it's unfortunate. But anyway, that was a fascinating part of that whole story. And so I'm looking forward to that celebration. And I don't know that, and we don't I would gather to say we're not teaching that in the No, but hopefully we're gonna have a little curriculum that we can try to get into the schools so they can cover this as a part of this 500th celebration. Very good.
SPEAKER_01So all right, so let's move on to a little that was the old your oldest. Move on to your what's your what's your number two?
SPEAKER_00Well, the next two stories um I think would be close, very close in time. So, and and you you could this would sound boring if I said I want to talk to you about a a land deal, but I'm gonna talk to you about a land deal, but I don't think it's boring. Um so when the American Revolution was cranking up in the 13 colonies, um, there was actually 15 British colonies. And the other two were British East Florida and British West Florida. But because they were only, they had only been part of Britain for about 10 years, that they had been Spanish for 250 years, and through the through the fighting in the French and Indian War, the Spanish were on the losing side, and they ended up um the British ended up taking over Florida from Spain as a part of the treaty of settling that war. So uh anyway, we did not we did not join in with the other colonies. So a lot of people from up there that were loyalist felt comfortable coming down here, including a group of traders that were based out of Charleston, South Carolina, but were very Scottish traders. They were very loyal to the King of England, and they were comfortable coming down here to British Florida in 1776 and deciding to set up some trading posts down here. So they ended up starting a trading post over around St. Augustine and then coming this way. And they put a trading post right there on the Wacala River banks at a place called Hyde Park, which is the trading post itself was about a quarter mile upriver from the lower bridge. Okay. And it was on the west side, I guess you would say, of southwest side of the Wacala River. Um I've been to the spot where it was, and there's not really anything there that tells you, hey, there was an old trading post here. But it's a fascinating part of the history. Jumping ahead, the natives start the natives started out doing a lot of trading. The natives, the Appalachian here, they were very good at farming. The soil was you know productive, at least in some areas, uh, probably not in some of the sandier areas of Wacula. But uh the if you look at a um map of all the Spanish missions which were built where there was Indian villages, um, you you realize that there's about a dozen of them if you if you went from where Perry, Florida is towards St. Augustine. If you went from there to up about where Havana is, now there's about twice that many in a smaller area. But it's because there was so much farming going on up in this area, so they have all these um uh span uh Spanish missions there and that type of thing. So the natives were able to trade for a long time with agricultural goods and hides and deer hides and other hides that would be easily shipped out and and converted into money. But over time the balances of unpaid bills started building up. In 1804, these traders, which which actually sold to another guy, it started out as Panton Leslie and company, and they sold to a guy named John Forbes. So uh Mr. Forbes, when he buys their business out, he gets all the accounts receivable, and he's trying to figure out how can I get you're talking about the trading business.
SPEAKER_01This is the trading business.
SPEAKER_00This was from the store business, and it was in this area. I mean, there's more to the story. The in the natives had attacked this store and robbed and pillaged and burned and stuff twice. So it wasn't all just purchases that they had wrung up a balance due. But but this this Mr. Forbes came up with the idea of well, since the Indians don't really have anything to pay off this, why don't I get them to give me some land? So he he works out a deal. There were people that, you know, um would be like an agent and go back and forth between the native leaders and so forth. So he works out a deal where 22 native leaders, by this time there's not much Appalachi presence, it's more Creek and Seminole presence. And the Seminoles are really one of those tribes that just picked up any bits and pieces and remnants and all merged in together. But they they agreed to deed 1.4 million acres of property to these traders. So these traders ended up owning everything to the west of the St. Mark River, all of in Wakulla, all of Franklin County. Uh they owned almost all of Liberty County, and they owned a little bit of southern Gasden and southern Leon County as a part of this 1.4 million acre deal. But as you may know, you can't pay bills with deed to property either. So they decided to sell some of their property, and they hired a guy to come here that was named Asa Hartfield. He was from South Carolina, and they wanted him to survey the boundary of their 1.4 million acres, which is bounded by the St. Mark River and the Gulf of Mexico and the Apalachicola River. So his boundary work is almost entirely just the northern. So he's gonna he's gonna give that a legal description and survey it out. And they ask him, and while you're here, we want you to survey out a subdivision. We want you to help us carve up some of this land that would be the most desirable for us to sell to people coming to the New World. Now, this is in 1804, so it's it's um there's still a lot of immigration going on. Um and so Mr. Hartsfield, Mr. Hartfield, he didn't have an S in his name, he told them, Well, I think your best land to sell uh and and have people you know create little farms, little plantations, um, is going to be over by the Wakala River. And so they they told him go ahead and survey this out. So he surveys out about almost 60,000 acres, and that became called the Hartsfield Survey.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So the Hartsville Survey uh was surveyed out in 1807 and 1808, and it is the only property, probably not just in Florida, but probably in most of the country, that was surveyed out without following the United States Land Commission's north-south, east-west township range methodology that that was a requirement. Uh, you know, they had a very um, they they realized to to develop this country and to get people to come here, you have to have a way of them owning land and you have to have surveys to back that all up. So they came up with this methodology right after the Revolutionary War. But Florida wasn't part of the new country, America. It was still, it was still um after the Revolutionary War, the British had only had it 20 years from the previous war where they kind of won it, and they ended up having to turn it back over, but they were unwilling to turn it over to the United States because they were ticked off. So they turned it back over to Spain. Um, and uh, and because Spain had come in and captured, I think they I think Spain had come in and captured some of the British territory and the Bahamas and Cuba and all that, they they kind of swapped them. Okay, you relinquish your claim over that and we give you Florida back and left the United States out of it. So that's why it was not done with the survey requirements that were in place everywhere else in the 13 colonies. And that same methodology is what they used to survey out the whole country as they moved further and further west. So the Hartsfield survey uh became the first property that was really being marketed. You probably know something about marketing of real estate. Um, they got it surveyed out in 1807 and 1808. So they start trying to get people to buy these. So these are sections of land that are 360 acres, whereas a regular United States land commission is 640 acres as a square mile and all that stuff. So these also don't run north, south, east, and west. They run on a uh a slant that is more or less parallel with the Wakala River. And they're they're kind of boxed in by the Gulf of Mexico and the Wacala River. Those were the parameters as to why they're off from the from the north, south, east, west. So anyway, the this this Forbes Purchase is what it's called, Forbes Purchase. Um, you know, they're they're they're starting to kind of feel like, okay, maybe we can convert this into some some money and maybe we can uh attain you know some uh uh reward out of this trading post uh venture here. And then they come to realize that the United States wants Florida. And so by 1819, there was actually an agreement that was adopted between Spain and Florida, but they didn't take over, United States didn't take over for two more years. But when the tr when the Forbes people saw this coming, they're like, oh my gosh, guess what? Guess what we're gonna be fighting? Now they're gonna try to come along and say, you don't own that 1.4 million acres. And so they got another guy to buy them out before the United States took over this. And that guy, you know, he he was a businessman and he kind of knew some of the risks and all that kind of stuff. So when the United States acquires this, they Set up an administrative process where uh a commission evaluates your claim. You you want to own this property, you come to us and prove that you owned it at the time this treaty was signed. And grandfathered in. So you grandfathered in. Which they did with great ease for small parcels. But when the United States has said, are we going to just give up this 1.4 million acres? They're like, Well, no, I don't think we should. So this guy fights it. He he can't get the administrative approval. He goes to Congress. He can't get Congress to approve it. This is in the 1820s. And so he ends up taking the U.S. government to court. And his name was Colin Mitchell. And so this case became a pretty interesting case to settle the title so that these trading people are their their successors can sell the property and get get something out of this investment. Uh so they ended up going all the way to the Supreme Court, and not just once but twice. And the Supreme Court said, you do own the property. And so it's just a very interesting story, and it has so many little unique things. And a good example of one of those unique things is that the Supreme Court said, We're gonna, we're gonna say you own this property, but you have to resurvey that Hartsfield survey out because it's not up to the standards that the United States expects. There were some, yeah. So so they never resurveyed it. And so it's just very, it's just a very interesting story.
SPEAKER_01It is at that is uh, you know, and I've I've got a that's what I my undergraduate is in real estate, and um but uh I've I've looked at the Heartsfield survey, um, but I've never heard the full backstory like that. That's that's fine. The other thing is is there's always been wheeling and dealing and deals being cut and strategizing and and all the since the beginning of real estate. But right but right here in Waucula County. Yeah, right here in Walkala County.
SPEAKER_00I mean, can you imagine how many people they talked to, A, trying to market the property, and then B trying to sell all of the unsold property. I they didn't sell a whole lot of property really. Um, and that's part if they had sold a lot of the property, they probably just held on and fought it out. But they needed somebody with deeper pockets that was more willing to take on the battle.
SPEAKER_01What was the you do you know any of the any of the prices? I don't know what the prices were. That would be interesting.
SPEAKER_00But I do know that there's a there's a map with some of the earliest landowners that was around 1808, um that are that are in the Hartsfield survey.
SPEAKER_01But the original 1.4 or 1.4 million that was conveyed from the Native Americans. See, that's what's went from the Native Americans to the other.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't want to get real political, but if somebody comes along and starts saying, you're living on stolen inn, you just pull out the forced purchase documentation and say, no, baby, we bought this land from the Natives.
SPEAKER_04So there you go.
SPEAKER_01So uh fascinating. That needs to also be in the curriculum.
SPEAKER_00All right, so let's move on to your you got a third, you have a I do have a third story, and I apologize because there's no way to tell these stories fast. Um the third story happens in that that same general time frame. There's a creek village on the banks of the Wakulla River, and it's pretty much all around that trading post. Um the trading post uh played out, you know, eventually, but the whole the whole reason that the trading post came there was because there was already a community there, and this community became known as Hyde Park. I don't think it was known as Hyde Park in 1783 when they built the trading post, but I think that it became known as Hyde Park. And what was really fascinating about Hyde Park and this this native village is that the creeks had a presence there, and there was a lot of free blacks, escaped blacks that were there. So one of the big tension items was since Florida wasn't in the colonies or the what became the United States, this goes all the way back to the early days of St. Augustine when the King of Spain would send word up to the plantations and tell the enslaved blacks, hey, if you escape down here, you help us, we'll help you. We won't we won't turn you back over, but you gotta help us fight off the British and whoever else comes against us. So there was an underground railroad for people to escape enslavement in plantations and so forth coming south to Florida before there ever was one going north. Uh so anyway, this village, this village wasn't just a um, you know, a small minor village. It had a big time Creek leader that was the the chief, the head of this village. He was big time in that he had fought um in several battles against uh Andrew Jackson and the Americans. He was active and involved in the Battle of New Orleans and and he was up there at uh Horseshoe Bend up in Alabama where there was a lot of uh fighting between the creeks and the Americans. Um so uh this village all of a sudden gets all this excitement because Chief Francis uh uh was the leader and he he finds out that two of the natives have captured a an American and that he was actually part of Andrew Jackson's force, but the Andrew Jackson hadn't gotten here yet. They captured him over close to the Apalachicola River, and they knew that Andrew Jackson had been coming and burning villages and attacking and killing and all this stuff. And in fact, they apparently had a connection with both the Waucala River village, Hyde Park village, and one of the villages that had been massacred. So they they were coming back and demanding that they execute this American soldier as retribution for the uh killing of some of their people in one of those other attacks. And the chief had a daughter named Millie Francis uh who intervened with her father to eventually see that the life of this young American soldier was spared. And this all happened right there on the banks of the Wakulla River in 1818. And the the weird part of this story is that before too long, Andrew Jackson shows up and he's in a foul mood, and uh he's he recognizes uh the the chief Francis, which they also called him the Prophet Francis, because he had prophesied that they were gonna have a lot of problems with the Europeans. And and there was a split in the Creek Nation about those who wanted to work with the Europeans and those who wanted to hold out. And he was in the hold out group and they called him the Prophet Francis. Anyway, when Andrew Jackson realizes this is the guy who was fighting against me over in the Battle of New Orleans and up there in Alabama, he executed him and one of the other leaders the day before the more famous execution he did, where he executed the two British subjects at the Ford in St. Mark's. That became a big scandal because here's an American general in Spanish Florida executing British citizens without them having their their rights, or so everybody got trampled in this by Andrew Jackson. And yet this girl had intervened and her father had uh helped make sure that this American soldier was saved. Uh, this American soldier, as soon as they let him go, he went back and walked back up to where he lived, somewhere pretty close to America's Georgia, or Albany, Georgia. Albany, I think. And when he got up there, everybody was so uh amazed at his story that the local newspaper did this big write-up on this this American soldier was saved by this Indian, and it's kind of like the story of Pocahontas a couple hundred years earlier, but they didn't have newspapers and all back then. This newspaper story gets picked up about this valiant act of this teenage girl in Waqala and spread across the nation telling the story about isn't this a wonderful, humane thing that this Native American girl did to save this American soldier? And it is uh it is said that this is the first time there's been a positive story about a Native American treating them uh in a very respectful way, as opposed to just like a second class race or something. So this gets picked up, and then as as history goes on, before too awful long, all the all the natives are sent to the Oklahoma Indian Territory because they're trying to make make room for all the new people coming and they kind of force all the seminoles and all the creeks and all to go out there and uh Millie Francis is uh is forced to go out there and and years later a reporter uh stumbles across the old reports and goes out and finds her in Oklahoma living in a little shack and interviews her and begins to work and eventually he secures a congressional pension for her. And I think I think it was maybe the first time there'd ever been a a civilian get a congressional pension for doing something militarily, and but she passed away before she ever received the first check. So it's a very cool story, uh very rich uh in human uh I mean you talk about learning from history. And right here. Have you heard have you ever heard of this? So you talk about learning from history. There's a lot of lessons, life lessons to learn from a historical story like that. That is fascinating. So they call it the Creek Pocahontas, and there's a guy that is a historian that lives over in Jackson County. I'm not a historian, I'm just a storyteller, but uh I've I've read his book about the Creek Pocahontas. Uh his name is Dale Cox, and we have several of his books. He's written a lot of different subjects in the gift shop at our museum at the Historical Society. So that is cool.
SPEAKER_01That is I want to read that book. Yeah, I will we'll we'll maybe we could get some uh we'll go we'll go pick one up and show the I'm embarrassed.
SPEAKER_03I don't think I've ever been inside of our Historical Society building, so I'm just excited about it Well, don't feel bad.
SPEAKER_00Some people that have been to the Chamber of Commerce across the street for years and years regularly just came over there earlier this week, and they're they're like picking out all these things in the gift shop and saying, I want this, I want this. I'm like, well, we're not open right now. They were they were over there, we were trying to look at some historical records, and they started looking around, they're like, Oh, I want this and I want this, and I'm like, Well, you can set them all aside, we'll leave a note, but we're not we're not opening up that.
SPEAKER_03What are your hours again?
SPEAKER_00Uh Thursday and Friday, 10 to 4, and Saturday, 10 to 2. We would recommend you call. I mean, maybe once a year we might not be open one of those days for some reason or another. Either we can't get the coverage of volunteers, or uh, you know, maybe it's a scheduled uh because of a holiday or something like that. I think we probably won't be open on July the 4th. I think that's on a Saturday. So that's an example. But we'll be open on the second and the third. I do want to talk to y'all about another event coming up July the 2nd. Yes. Um, this one's a lot more modern type of history. We're we're jumping way ahead to 1976. We're gonna have an uh unearthing and opening of a time capsule that was buried 50 years ago. It was buried in conjunction with the bicentennial celebration for America's 200th birthday, and we're getting ready this July the 4th to celebrate the 250th uh anniversary of our uh independence, which is called the semi-quincentennial. I had to really study that all morning so I could say it here. But um, and so we're gonna not only not only dig this capsule up and open it and see what was put in there with the intention for us to open it 50 years later, but we're gonna bury a new time capsule to be opened 50 years from now. And to make it even more exciting, I've made a lot of arrangements to get some people from the class in 1976 to come and talk to us about what was lifelike and what was going on in their world and in Wakulla and in the country and all in 1976. Then we're gonna have somebody talk about having been in attendance at the ceremony where they buried this, and then we're gonna have somebody talk about the significance of the 250th anniversary, and then we're gonna have some people from the class of 26 kind of commemorate the new time. Yeah, that's really cool.
SPEAKER_01When is that July the second, five p.m.
SPEAKER_00in front of the courthouse? And um thankfully we'll have it, we'll have a tent and and all there too, but thankfully the sun will be blocked by the courthouse at that time, so it won't be quite as much direct heat.
SPEAKER_01So how do you decide what goes in at what's going to be so you're gonna take out what's in, but then there's also new things.
SPEAKER_00So there's a dozen organizations that have been contacted, and there are things like, you know, the Chamber of Commerce and Um uh the Rotary Club and people like that. They've been contacted and said, your organization is to gather up some information that some items that you want to put in there. But here's your parameters of of of what it has to fit in. So we're we're giving everybody some limits because when they did this the first time, everybody just kept showing up at the courthouse. I got something else I want to go in there. Yeah. And they had filled one container up, their big PVC pipe capped off. And they had to run down to the store, find another piece of PVC pipe and two caps, and fill up another one with some of the overflow stuff because that's how that's how it works if you don't give people deadlines. So these organizations have a deadline that's about three or four weeks before this event. Gotcha. So that even if, you know, even if somebody submits something after the fact, at least we know what we've got. We know what'll fit, you know, comfortably in in our uh time capsules and so forth. So anyway, that's a cool thing, and I'm excited about it in part because of of having this connection between the class of 76 and the class of 2026.
SPEAKER_01I'm excited. Well, this has been this has been awesome. Yeah. I'm excited about this. We'll we'll we'll get this out and we'll take some the just the three stories that you told. I'm embarrassed. I've I've Oh, don't be embarrassed. I mean, I I didn't know a lot of this until just the last 15 or 20 years. Obviously, go by and pick up some material. All right, Molly, what do you want to about ready to close us out? Yes. So do we hit you want to hit Mr. Mr. Brent with a couple of our uh lightning round questions? Okay, so I'm gonna ask you a list of questions. And here's what we want to do. See, this is the this is stuff that nobody it's probably never been revealed until now.
SPEAKER_03So after this, people are gonna know stuff about you that probably nobody So I'm gonna ask you a list of questions or just a couple questions and try and answer them like lightning.
SPEAKER_00It's a lightning round. If the old brain can find that quick, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so are you a morning person or a night owl?
SPEAKER_00Morning person.
SPEAKER_03Morning person. Um favorite fast food restaurant?
SPEAKER_00Probably Chick-fil-A.
SPEAKER_03Chick-fil-A. That yeah, Christian chicken. Um sweet tea or coffee?
SPEAKER_00Coffee. I drink unsweet tea, uh, and I'm not diabetic, but I just try not to drink a lot of sugary or high frucose corn syrup stuff.
SPEAKER_03So even if you don't sing karaoke, just pretend you're in a situ like a situation where you have to sing karaoke. Okay, what would your go-to karaoke song be?
SPEAKER_00My gosh. I don't know. I had to sing a couple ones in the anti-play. So maybe I could maybe I could go to the karaoke DJ.
SPEAKER_03Okay, if you could have any superhuman power, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00I I think flying would be pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03That would be a really cool one.
SPEAKER_00I get to do that every now and then in my dreams, but then I wake up and I'm really not able to fly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or less of the time traveling and being connection.
SPEAKER_00Pretty good. I mean, that one, you know, I can I change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's the last one.
SPEAKER_01Mr. Brandt, this has been awesome. I want to have you back on here because there's a couple of other uh I I to I think for those three stories, there's there's probably 50 more that we could talk about. Uh, so I want to have you in periodically, you and other folks from the historical society. Uh we owe it here. Walcola County is a great place. This is a great area. And you're right, our predecessors, they that rich history is why we're is what made us who we are here today. So not that it was all perfect, but but we, you know, some mistakes. But man, what a what I really, really enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_00Well, I appreciate that. And I want to put in a little plug for the Historical Society. Uh you can come to the meetings without being a member. You can be a member and never come to the meetings. Any support you can give the Historical Society is going to help us, you know, further our goals and whether it's working with a little project like we'll we'll present uh and have on display all the time capsule thing that for several months after this, or our programs or some of the other things we do, um, all of those things will be um better when we have more engagement. And I would really love to find a way to get people that are new to this community comfortable with getting involved. People people sometimes think, oh, you gotta be a history expert. If you come to the Historical Society meeting and you don't really know anything about our history, you're gonna feel awkward wherever. I don't want people to presume that. I mean, one of the most active people we have moved here about ten years ago, and they had been here a couple years and they became the president of the society. And they they didn't know anything about the history. They just knew that they wanted to be a part of an organization that was preserving and sharing and and and keeping that history alive.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're gonna get behind it. Thank you so much. This was great.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Mr. Brent. And uh