Mane Up Memphis Podcast
Mane Up Memphis Podcast serves up practical therapy insights, financial-empowerment tips, and inspiring Memphis stories—straight from the nonprofit that says “wrap-around support or bust.” Hosted by LMSW & CFSW Joey Laswell. New episodes every Tuesday.
Mane Up Memphis Podcast
Episode 4 - The Mood Dudes Inside Mane Up Memphis
Send us a message at info@maneupmemphis.org
The Mood Dudes are hosted by Immanuel, James, Joey, three Mane Up Memphis™ clinicians bringing you behavioral health knowledge through the lens of your favorite superhero hood. Get ready for action-packed adventures served with a side of humor, pop culture references, and a dash of edge.
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Welcome to the Main Up Memphis podcast, where we celebrate the grit, heart and hope that make the 901 shine. Each week, we sit down with changemakers, youth and families to talk real mental health wins, money moves and life skills breakthroughs All the tools we use at Main Up Memphis to uplift, equip and empower people to build stronger, more resilient lives. Whether you're 14 or 40, a parent, mentor or ally, this is your spot for stories that heal and strategies that work. So grab a sweet tea, get comfy and let's step into growth together, because here at MainUp Memphis, you leave the baggage keep the change.
Speaker 3:Alright, everybody, hello, my name is Joey Laswell, certified financial social worker, licensed master social worker, and this is Main Up Memphis podcast and we are excited to bring this. We're calling ourselves the mood dudes, I'm just going to throw it out there but we have Emmanuel and James. They're both clinicians, mental health clinicians, and basically we're all part of the Made Up Memphis team and I just wanted to, you know, bring them on, share some of their experience, their expertise and, you know, just have kind of a free-flowing conversation about mental health and issues that are going on in the world. So, first off, let's go ahead and get a little introduction out of the way. So, Emmanuel, I'll start with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your clinical background and, yeah, just what are some of your interests, hobbies and aspirations.
Speaker 2:Right. Hi, joey and James, it's so good to connect with you all again. Hello to everyone who does not know me my name is Emmanuel. I am originally from Pine Bluff, arkansas. I went to school for actually I didn't never and I'll share the story with you all. Joey and James already knows this I didn't choose mental health or social work.
Speaker 2:It definitely chose me and it sounds cliche, but it's the truth. Um, when I went to school, I wanted to be a neuropsychologist and it's like similar neighborhood, but definitely not the same street or block. Um, but so life happened and I ended up going to undergrad for um in the beginning, uh, degrees in psychology, social work and and sociology, went on to do a little MSW and then now I'm here. I'm a mental health advocate, behavioral health consultant.
Speaker 2:I love what I do and the most fun part for me with Maine of Memphis is our outreach. This organization is powerful in the opportunities to serve others and for me, organizations, particularly nonprofits, is what you do for others that make you powerful, that make you potent and make you relevant. And from what I've seen with just my short time so far with man Up Memphis and the Visionary Rachel, it's powerful and I'm just happy to be a part and to be with you guys. I say we look like an ensemble cast because you would never just put us three together. But the Mood Dudes are here to stay and I'm just happy to serve.
Speaker 3:Awesome, awesome. We're happy to have you, james, the floor is yours. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your clinical background, and take it from there.
Speaker 4:Sure. Hi, I'm James. I have been in the mental health field since my undergrad in 2016.
Speaker 3:I've served in a variety of health care settings in outpatient, in PHP, iop and residentials, kind of spent the last eight years searching for my clinical niche, as it were, sliding really hard into DBT and right now in the moment, type of skills, and I'm very excited to complete my LPC while I'll be with MainUp Memphis and then I'm also looking forward to working with the team and giving more talks about mental health as well yes, yes, and speaking of talks, so the little bit of our origins, origin story is that we all kind of had to meet each other virtually over like zoom and and google meets and all technological stuff, but we didn't meet in person until the Men's Mental Wellness Collective, I think it was called, held by Baptist this was last Saturday, and we were all basically asked to be a part of a men's mental health workshop and so, yeah, we started collaborating and once we were in person, things just kind of clicked and yeah, and then we formed a triumvirate, that is the Moodudes.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so we did that and yeah, I kind of wanted to recap that a little bit, talk about some of the things that came up in the session and really just, yeah, I mean, these are the kinds of things that Made at Memphis does we do workshops, we do lunch and learns, and yeah, so I mean so, okay, so who has a good takeaway? Or maybe a synopsis? Which one of you guys wants to jump on that grenade takeaway?
Speaker 1:or maybe a synopsis which one of you guys wants to jump on that grenade.
Speaker 2:Oh, I feel like that was delayed, but anyways, um so many, uh many members had the opportunity to not only collaborate with baptist memorial health, we had an opportunity to be a sponsor for this event. It was the Men's Collective Heart and Soul and it was an opportunity for men to gather men of various backgrounds, ages, ethnicities, the whole nine to get a better understanding of their mental health and emotional well-being. So there were several sessions offered well, there were five sessions offered, as well as keynote speakers and Main Up. Memphis was our premier session and had a great turnout.
Speaker 2:We had some people come to our session. We worked on identifying emotions and managing sad emotions, which is something that, historically, men struggle with, regardless of background. So we really got to break down some barriers. Answers to a lot of Q&A more Q&A than I think any of us expected, but that is a healthy sign. Yes, but that is a great sign. In these type of environments, that means those who are attended are engaged and they're actively feeding on what is being presented to them. So it was a great time. Mind you, like Joey said, that was our first time meeting face to face. But when you have good stuff, good stuff just works.
Speaker 3:So that's what happened in that space and it was a great opportunity to serve men in Memphis, in the mid-south and looking forward to, you know, several other opportunities following that absolutely, and I'll just say that I feel, like the, maybe the Q&A, because there was so much activity in in the room that maybe there is a, a need, an unmet need, for men and mental health services, even if it's just in a group setting, you know, like a, I don't know, like some type of uh, group therapy type of format, but, um, it just seemed like there was definitely a need or a desire to talk about some of these things, and there isn't really much of a place to talk about some of these things. So I don't know what were you thinking, james? What was your takeaway from the workshops?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we had a lot of really good questions that people were asking. I thought that we would have a lot more people who are a lot more hesitant, given the setting that we're in and given that it's a bunch of strangers and you know how we are in Memphis, we don't like sharing information with strangers, we don't like people being in our business, but people really opened up.
Speaker 4:They were really willing to actually ask good questions and try to learn and try to better themselves.
Speaker 4:And that's something that we see in Memphis a lot, just here and there is that occasionally somebody opens up enough to say like, hey, I'm trying to get better, I'm trying to move forward, I'm trying to build something, and every so often we have somebody who asks for help, which is a little bit rare, but this was kind of an opportunity to facilitate that, and that was actually one of the topics we were talking about was asking for help, um, on saturday and how you know, sometimes we get to a point, especially as men, where we do everything in our power to make something happen, make something shake, make something move, to build something for ourselves, and we hit a wall and we still have all these responsibilities to try to come through for our family, our friends, for ourselves.
Speaker 4:But when we hit that wall and we're trying to build it on our own and we're getting more and more frustrated, we tend to shut down, to enter our panic mode, and that's not helpful. So, really, taking an objective look at what are options for getting some help, like who are some people that I know, who are some people who are trustworthy, who are some professionals who I can go to for just this one time, and then I don't have to speak to them again after I get what I need, if everything is honky dory right, things like that, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the stigma around mental health is still there and I think it's even more prevalent amongst men. I mean, it's just not. You know, we've come a little bit in regards to making progress towards normalizing talking about mental health stuff with. You know, guys getting help, but I don't know what do you think is the reasoning behind this hesitance to reach out for help when it's really you know, it's not that hard, it's just uncomfortable. You know, what do you think, emmanuel?
Speaker 2:We touched on it Saturday about. So men have a dual fight when it comes to mental health. We have the stigma, and then we have the socialization of men, which I think is the fan that fuels the fire of that stigma. Right, so men were socialized to be tough at the cost of expression, at the cost of health, at the cost of us. Right we? The cost of health at the cost of us? Right, we walk around with our proverbial armor and our capes and we're always Superman and never get to be Clark Kent. That is not healthy. It's not healthy for anybody. It's just the data shows men do it the most right, because society right, and that's a very broad stroke, but you get it.
Speaker 2:I think accessibility has also been an issue, particularly men who are black, indigenous people of color. There has been historically red tape for accessing quality mental health services. So those are just a few barriers, but they're coming down. I want to be fair in our assessment of mental health as it stands in 2025. There are some spaces where it's almost too normalized and people are using terminology and theoretical approaches.
Speaker 2:They have nothing they know nothing about and using it all willy-nilly and incorrectly. And it's very annoying, but I'm glad to know I'd rather pull it back than try to add to. So I'm very happy to know that it is becoming more and more destigmatized as the day goes by in every male community and if we continue to learn that vulnerability is okay in the appropriate spaces and that we have professionals for a reason and it's hard enough to have men to go to take care of their physical health, right, and it's such an interesting dichotomy because we pride ourselves so much on performance, physical performance but nobody wants to go see their PCP, if you have one right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you have one, that's a good point, because most guys don't. It's like what's a PCP mean, Right?
Speaker 2:primary care physician, the people who do your routine checks. If you are only going to see a medical professional when it's time for your sports physical, yeah, let's check that Also. A lot of this conversation came up. There's a lot of conversation around. You know you've got to take care of yourself for and following that was for your family, for others, for your loved ones. All that's good and dandy, but you have to do it for you too, and I want us to get a healthy understanding and a healthy compass of some things are for you, you the person, you the man it's not attached to some responsibility or pressure that you have, because we have enough of that.
Speaker 2:I want us, as men, to understand that we have self-care and to emphasize that self in the self-care, but to bring it back around. It's just as that. We have self-care and to emphasize that self in the self-care, right, but to bring it back around. You know, it's just as normal as when you need a haircut, you go see a barber. When you need a heart checkup, you see a cardiologist, ent, podiatrist. It's the same thing. If you're having mental and emotional challenges, you see a mental health professional. And then we also work to delineate the difference between you know, just a mental health issue or challenge and then like crisis, right, because I think people think you have to wait until the sky is falling to go talk to a therapist or a life coach or whatever your preferred helping profession is, and you don't. Right.
Speaker 2:If you are having issues with your sleep, your social interactions, your appetite, these are telltale signs that it may be time to speak to a professional. Is there something brewing under the surface? Right, that iceberg? It's there and it's not going anywhere we love to avoid, right? James did a great, great explanation on the fight, fight or freeze and all the other responses of that and how that also drives the lack of men getting the resources and the tips and tools that we need. So I believe if people stick around, if they continue to listen to the podcast and engage with what Mainland Memphis has to offer, they'll get what they need in some way, form or fashion.
Speaker 3:Right, because we're also trying to help the community. This isn't just individual therapy that's a part of our bread and butter but, like we're, we're trying to get into the community. You know and and make changes. You know where people need it the most. Because there's, like you said, red tape. There is a cost barrier to uh to get access to mental health services, and that's. You know, underserved populations are probably the last ones that are going to have access to uh, the services that they probably needed maybe the most. Who knows? And um, I was thinking about an analogy. I was. I want to run it by you guys.
Speaker 3:What do you guys think about mental health professionals as like mechanics of the mind? So you know you, you take your car in for preventative maintenance, ideally. So that's like getting therapy and doing self-care, but then sometimes something's bad and then you got to go into the shop for an emergency, and that's when you get to the crisis level. But like, ideally, we do preventative maintenance, like get our oil changed, do tune-ups and things like that, and then you know our, our, our engine runs smoother. I don't know, I I'm just brainstorming, but like what do you guys think about that analogy?
Speaker 4:I get where you're coming from and I don't know that. I agree with the mechanic. Okay, the mechanic archetype, because when I think about a mechanic, I want if I if I'm not fixing the car myself right, because if I know what I'm doing I can fix the problem. The problem is done, it's over with, same thing as if I take it to the mechanic. I want the mechanic to fix the problem.
Speaker 1:I want to go away once he's done, doing what he does and that's not the nature of our work, right?
Speaker 4:okay, no, I like yeah, I can be a support, I can be a pillar, I can be somebody who helps to, like I can pass you the water during, like, a sporting event. I can give you, like, um, snacks, refreshments, give you a pep talk, right, I can give you everything that you need to succeed, but I cannot do it for you I will meet you wherever in the middle you are and I will try to coax you to at least halfway.
Speaker 4:My goal is to, if you're not meeting me halfway in the middle of our work, then to, at the very beginning, meet you where you are, try to kind of like coax you along at least to 50, because I can meet you at 50 and have a working, professional relationship with you.
Speaker 4:But eventually, if what we're doing is we're having people come in and work on goals, which is primarily what the nature of mental health is is that we define some goals like, hey, I realize that I'm having problems with feeling overwhelmed, I'm having problems with social anxiety, I'm having problems with my depression. Right, I'm having problems with social anxiety, I'm having problems with my depression, right, we make a goal around those things that you're experiencing and then hopefully, you are making the changes that get you to where you need to be, that get you into that healthy place. You might need some advice or some guidance or some directives or some activities to get you there, and I can perfectly find giving that to you. But as far as you coming into me and oh, my adhd is going to be cured, it's not no yeah, I think fix is the.
Speaker 3:The key word, that that we need to distinguish is that you know we're not, we're not going to fix you because you have to do a lot of the work. We kind of, we kind of pop the hood, if you want to keep the analogy going, and we, we, you know, look around and then diagnose a little bit, or you know, like, identify maybe, okay, this, you know, I hear a little knocking sound over here. This might be something going on here, you know, so, um. So yeah, I like that distinction and I appreciate you. You know, um, shutting me down so so forcefully.
Speaker 4:I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, I could be more sorry, so no, no, I'm just kidding, that was, that was perfect, all right, any anything from you emmanuel any any um thoughts on on the uh I see where you're coming from and I immediately, immediately loved it.
Speaker 2:Um, but james just kind of ruined the fun for everybody yay, I feel like that's one of his pleasures in life to pop the balloon. But he does make an excellent point. Oh, and I think that also drives issues with men coming to therapy because they have this thinking or this mindset that this person is going to fix me and they're going to get out of my business, like a mechanic does a car.
Speaker 2:It's very personal very intimate which, you know, therapy is supposed to be, um, but you know, we're we skill build, we don't to james point, we don't fix anything right, we just help empower you to do the work right. The best we can do is sit in the passenger seat, but we're not going to. You know, drive for you, right, um. So I think, um, I think it's a beautiful analogy. It just needs to have that.
Speaker 4:That, that caveat, yeah what's the role in the hospital where you have the surgery team and there's like the maiden surgeon, he's like scalpel and the person is like scalpel and they hand it over?
Speaker 2:Who's that?
Speaker 4:person. That's who we are metaphorically. We will hand you the scalpel. We will hand you all the tools that you need. You're the one who has to do the work, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I mean, I'll even say that just from being on both sides of the coin, like I've been through therapy before and you know, you can have the light bulb, aha moment of the awareness of, oh man, I do that or I have this issue. But the changing part, the changing of those patterns, is where you have to do the work. You know, and I've been guilty of not doing my homework in therapy, you know what I mean. So I think that's a great distinction, because what, what do you guys like?
Speaker 2:James.
Speaker 4:James is just. You said that you have a history of not doing your homework in therapy. I was like, oh, Joey, we would have words.
Speaker 3:We need to have an offline session after this.
Speaker 2:No, let the people hear it. Let the people hear it.
Speaker 4:This is Memphis. We don't need to put our business out there like that.
Speaker 2:Joey's greatest self-disclosure. Like really is one of his tools and his Batman tool belt.
Speaker 3:Right, right, there you go. I like that Batman.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm going to bird walk just a little bit, um, but if we had to be like what? What would our equivalent superpower be? I mean, superhero be just on our you know what we know about each other like, if you had to equate, uh, superhero, marvel, dc, anime, whatever, who would it be? This is for all the nerds listening to our podcast.
Speaker 3:Well, I think before In the previous booth session that me and James had. He said Thor for himself. I don't know.
Speaker 4:I pick Thor Just because he's kind of he's very direct and he may not be the most conventional in his methods, but he's going to get the job done.
Speaker 2:Hmm, okay, I'm going to come back with my answer when you guys are done. And what was yours, Joey?
Speaker 3:In that same session. I initially didn't have an answer and then I went with Captain America, but I don't know, I don't really I don't know. It just kind of felt right, you know, the whole patriotism being in the military, I don't know it, just it was a vibe thing. But yeah, I don't know, I guess if I had to put just a pin in that one, I still kind of want to think about it and we can refine and iterate as we see fit.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like I'm leaving the audience with a cliffhanger, so I'm just going to say it and then we can come back to it in the next episode. And they can provide what they think.
Speaker 1:James.
Speaker 2:I was thinking closer to Doctor Strange, because you are so textbook and I love it. I think it's because you're LPC, not LCSW, no shade. But Doctor Strange, you know he had to learn all the stuff before he could do the stuff. That's just my opinion.
Speaker 1:And Joey, you are really close.
Speaker 2:I was going to say Captain America, but the current Captain America Like the Falcon that turned Captain America.
Speaker 3:I haven't really seen that much as much yet. Okay, I'm sorry, I lost some nerd points there.
Speaker 2:You need to watch the movie. It's really great. But the way he swoops in and saves the day Peaceful but also violent, that's kind of how I see you.
Speaker 3:Okay, wow, I like that. That feels very nuanced.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that so yeah, okay, well, um, I don't know that, that was, uh, that was some great uh, you know, I guess this is kind of like how the sausage is made a little bit. You know like what, what, what are what are clinicians talking about? You know what are. What are we? Um, uh, you know what are we. What are clinicians talking about? You know what are we. You know what are we like when we're behind the scenes and we're talking shop. You know, like, what are we talking about. So, if we were to pull back the curtain to, you know, just everyday average people that might be looking into therapy, average people that might be looking into therapy um, what are some common myths that you've come across about therapy and how would you dispel them? You know, um, for future listeners, we'll go with james first dr james.
Speaker 3:dr james, as I'm twisting my face, trying to think of one myth, Well, we can just brainstorm a few myths and just kind of go off of that, because like there are plenty, you know, I can say, like the laying down on the couch, the old, like Freudian.
Speaker 1:Oh, don't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:With an old white dude with a tweed jacket and a pipe and a pad of paper.
Speaker 4:Okay, I got one for you and we talked about this. We touched on this during the Men's Health Summit. But the idea that you're going to come into therapy and we're going to talk about all your childhood traumas and somehow rooting around in that is going to fix whatever is going on for you right now. Sure, we can get to that eventually, but we kind of need you to have the skills to deal with the childhood trauma first. So a lot of skill building is probably going to be necessary before we can get into any of the reads that from your past are causing you problems, because you've got some problems right now that we got to deal with.
Speaker 4:That's why you came. Is that things are going on right now? Right, um, because if it was just childhood trauma, I can put this in a box for 60 years and unpack it when I'm 80. Then, yeah, we would do that, but things are happening right now. That's what brought you to counseling. That's what brought you to therapy, um, so let's deal with that first. That's what brought you to therapy, so let's deal with that first.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yeah that's a great point.
Speaker 2:One myth that I have encountered is for some reason, people think mental health documents and records are public, like somebody's going to somehow know that you go to therapy.
Speaker 2:Nobody's going to know? It reminds me of the TikTok sound. How would they know? Nobody's going to know unless you go to therapy. Nobody's gonna know it might smell the tiktok sound. How would they know? Nobody's gonna know unless you tell them. And again it's. It's becoming more and more normalized. So people, a lot of people, love to say my therapist said, my therapist said, and oftentimes they're talking to you and you are spreading this information as something to benefit the general public, and sometimes it does, but it's usually for you, right, um?
Speaker 2:but no, nobody is walking around talking about your mental health record it's just as protected, if not more protected than your medical record.
Speaker 2:It is a medical record yes, so, um, yeah, that's one. The second one is and we kind of spoke about it earlier about accessibility. There are still some barriers, but it's more and more accessible than it used to be. It's not as much of a of a privilege, you know, here in the state of Tennessee, for those who qualify, you can receive mental health services for free, and I do mean free with Behavioral Safety Net. I'm not going to get political with the governor, but that is one thing that the Tennessee governor got right was funding that and continue to funding that. It's for adolescents. Three and all the way to infinity. All you need is a qualifying mental health diagnosis. If you don't have one, any clinician worth their salt can give you one, and you can receive outpatient services for free. Inpatient is another conversation, but also a lot of clinicians offer sliding scales. You can also go the nonprofit route. You don't have to go into private practice.
Speaker 3:Can you elaborate on sliding scale a little bit for the audience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, A sliding scale is so every clinician or organization has their standard billing fee for your session. But if you meet certain financial qualifications around affordability, then you can be offered the same services at a different rate, a lower rate. So that's how that works, which you have to qualify right. You can't just be like can I get a signing scale, Like sure, Can you provide so-and-so, so-and-so, so it's kind of like getting benefits or whatever and then you know if the organization offers it then you can get it.
Speaker 2:A lot of private people offer it. Private practices offer it because non-profit is usually already kind of discounted because insurance is paying for that. But it's usually options for those who don't have insurance and they need to pay for services but they can't afford the standard rate and so that's how sliding scale works.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you elaborating on that because, like you know, part of what I think, or I want, this part of this podcast's mission, is to kind of demystify the therapeutic process a little bit and normalize it. And that actually makes me think of what my myth would be is that therapy is going to basically turn you into a sniveling baby. You know you're going to be like in a fetal position, crying, you know, and there will be there may be tears there, you know, and there's going to be intense emotion. So I'm not trying to deny that or undermine that, but yeah, I think some of the depictions in movies has really kind of influenced how people perceive therapy, you know. And yeah, like speaking of movies, okay, real quick, tangent, but best movie interpretation of therapy or a therapist in action oh, I don't have a movie, but I do have a tv show.
Speaker 2:Okay, um er, I mean, I'm sorry, the pit on hbo max I've been here oh my god, they have an er social worker love her. That's how I used to work in a clinic. That's where I got a lot of my clinical experience and primary care clinic. So I didn't have as many consults as she does on the show Nowhere near as dramatic, but just to see it I can tell that they have consulted an actual clinician before they did the show.
Speaker 2:It's not just you know what they think it is outside did the show. It's not just what they think it is outside of the game. Some of those things are so nuanced you know a clinician told them that that is one of my favorite and most recent representations of a clinician in the field. Also, whoever DreamWorks, pixar, disney has been talking to about the last five years or so has been getting it right Like Inside Out, inside Out 2, win or Lose on Disney+.
Speaker 3:I'm not making this a commercial for Disney. No, no, no, I've heard about that one too. Please contact Rachel Walker and run that check for this promo.
Speaker 2:Chantel. I'm sorry, rachel, chantel, rachel, I love you girl. Maybe that's premonition.
Speaker 1:But no for real.
Speaker 2:They have been getting it right. As a clinician, you can turn it off, but sometimes you just have your lens on and you can see how careful they were to get the messages across in a healthy way and it's accurate. So I would say those are some pretty good examples.
Speaker 4:What about you guys? I don't think I watch enough movies or TV to really have anything off the top of my head. That's actually like a clinician. But a lot of Ghibli movies have a therapeutic quality to them, like kiki's delivery service when she goes on vacation, but she's visiting her artist friend, like out in the woods, and her artist friend is like listening to her talk about like how terrible it is that like she's losing all of her abilities and her work is going so terribly and how poor everything is going. And she's just like I think maybe you're overthinking it. Maybe you are putting so much pressure on yourself for something that you used to enjoy that you're not enjoying it anymore. Right, like maybe we need to take another view. Or, um, like in howl's moving castle, um, the way that the girl gets over the curse there is that she has to change her view of herself. And it's not all the way gone. You can still see the effects.
Speaker 4:Her hair never turns back from an old lady's hair into her vibrant brown hair from when she was appearing younger, but her visual features and her physical features become younger once she changes the way that she looks at things. So I think a lot of gayhibli movies have a lot of therapeutic qualities.
Speaker 3:That's going to make me want to revisit my Ghibli collection, right, and I guess, okay. So for me I would probably have to say Good Will Hunting, robin Williams, just kind of a classic, I mean, yeah, it's a little Hollywood-ish, you know, hollywood-ized if you want to call it that. But I of a classic I mean, yeah, it's a little Hollywood-ish, you know Hollywood-ized if you want to call it that, but I don't know, I just felt like you know, it was a nuanced, you know, performance. He's a nuanced character and Rob Williams did a really good job and I think it also highlights that, yeah, therapists are humans too and we feel and we have our own traumas and we have our own stuff that we're working through. So, yeah, I just really appreciate the nuance of how they portrayed the therapeutic process. I know some people have some critiques of it, but that's just my opinion. And then this kind of leads me to a random, another random tangent, slightly related um, have you guys heard of geek therapy?
Speaker 4:is that the tabletop therapy where we start using like role-playing games and things like that?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's part of it. There's a whole certification for it. Now I've been looking into it and they have Go ahead.
Speaker 4:Yeah, actually I have a colleague who is certified in that and was trying to get me into it. I did not end up looking into it, though.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:I hope he's listening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I hope he's listening and I hope he texts you after this podcast and shames you oh man, that's usually James' job but yeah, so geek therapy.
Speaker 3:I think there's something there. It's pretty niche, obviously, and you have to be geeky, pretty geeky to administer it, but basically you use um like fandoms, and you really yeah, yeah so like, who evaluates?
Speaker 2:if you're like geeky enough, is there like a board to say, hey, you meet the qualifications? To be geeky, like what's the litmus test for. Oh, okay like a geek cred.
Speaker 4:GDS, the geek to dork scale. You're not going to be qualified If you are genuinely geeky and you know your comic history and things of that nature, then maybe you can qualify.
Speaker 2:So what if you're like a great clinician but you're just a few comics off?
Speaker 4:You can't get this out of you. That's a cultural competence issue, honestly. Maybe you should not say that you specialize in this, on your psychology. Today, I'm just saying there you go.
Speaker 3:Or how about this devil's advocate that you're not nerdy but you want to brush up on your nerdy skills so that you can relate to your clients better, and that's kind of some of the modalities that they talk about. Is that, you know, especially if you know one of your clients is, you know, a big Lord of the Rings fan, like you can kind of like get savvy on the lore and start incorporating that into the therapeutic process because it kind of like it. Really they can relate to it a lot easier because they're already passionate about it. Um, so, yeah, I just wanted to. I just was curious from your your guys's like professional opinions, like what do you guys think about that? And, um, when are we going to get certified?
Speaker 2:oh, that was always the plot.
Speaker 4:The plot, oh man, and how are you going to set us up?
Speaker 3:we are all pretty geeky, so we might as well just lean into it.
Speaker 4:I'm not mad at that, I'm willing to as long as you're supplying the books and as long as you're supplying me with the paid hours in order to read and familiarize myself with the books so I can DM for people. Well, the thing is okay, made of memphis.
Speaker 3:Our core demographic is 11 to 25 year old youth, male, female. So what? What do a lot of the that age range? They, they have hobbies and interests minecraft, roblox, whatever you know like. So, whatever, I think by educating ourselves and becoming more culturally competent we can become better clinicians. I don't know, that's just my pitch. We'll talk offline about this and eventually our group practice will be born. They'll let me get my mind racing because it's a dangerous, dangerous thing sometimes. All right, so we, we, we, basically, you know we want to kind of do this as a running feature segment. You know where we all get together the mood dudes and, and you know, talk about mental together, the mood dudes and, and you know, talk about mental health, um, talk about made up memphis, and you know just um, kind of learn, teach and grow together. Um, I've already learned a lot since hanging out with these two guys, so I appreciate that. Um, so, um, so, yeah, any, is there anything?
Speaker 2:that's what's that you didn't learn anything, james.
Speaker 3:He already knows it all.
Speaker 1:You're muted. You're literally muted.
Speaker 4:Yes, like Joey said, I know everything, I just can't remember it all at once. There you go, yeah, but no, I have learned a lot from you guys. Nice, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, there's still plenty more to learn and plenty more to talk about. So, was there anything that you want to tee up for the next episode or anything that you guys would like to talk about? We can brainstorm that or, even better, we can encourage the audience to send in some suggestions, some topics that you guys want to talk about. After hearing our vibe, seeing what we're talking about, what are some of the things that you guys would like for us to talk about?
Speaker 4:How's that sound?
Speaker 2:Emmanuel, what's your?
Speaker 4:specialties.
Speaker 2:What's my specialties? What's my specialties and what wait, wait. I feel like this is a setup. What? Topics do you feel comfortable?
Speaker 4:talking about that. You could talk for like 10-15 minutes, educate people on anxiety, grief, autism.
Speaker 2:A lot of my career has been with people living with autism youth and young adults at risk. Youth and young adults, that's pretty much it. Oh, mental health and spirituality, spirituality and religion, especially as it pertains to the African American experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can give you 14 episodes on that we can dig into that for sure, I'd love that. Awesome, awesome, okay, what about you, james?
Speaker 4:yeah, so I also um like to talk about depression and anxiety, especially as they relate to the fight flight freeze system, because it pops up more often than people think. Um, I like looking at interpersonal problem areas like the grief, like emmanuel was saying, interpersonal disputes, which are arguments that we have with other people, role transitions, where we're gaining or losing responsibilities, and then also interpersonal isolation, loneliness any of those things I can talk about at length.
Speaker 2:I'm intrigued. That's like reading a movie.
Speaker 3:That's like reading a book. Yeah, emmanuel's eyes just lit up for the podcast audience and he was doing the Mr Burns evil finger things. Excellent, excellent, oh man. Well, that covers a pretty good spectrum and I might disappoint some people. Well, okay, so I guess I would have to say veterans, veterans, mental health issues.
Speaker 3:I'm a veteran. I was in the air force for almost 14 years and seen plenty and done plenty and experienced plenty, and then, as a clinician, obviously I have a soft spot for for my fellow vets and active duty, um, so, yeah, I did my internship at the VA actually here in Memphis and, um, you know, I can talk, yeah, I could talk about that, for, for you know, hours and hours, uh, and then the psychology of finance, which, uh, you know that's another part of MainUp Memphis. We haven't talked about much yet, but, uh, the the interplay of the psychology of how we spend, why we spend, you know things like that, how to budget. So Main Up Memphis does have a financial literacy program and you know we're ramping that up. We're going to basically start doing it's a 12-week program, but, yeah, we'll probably have a whole other.
Speaker 3:We could talk about, yeah, the psychology of money all day. Um, we could talk about, yeah, the psychology of money all day, um, so, yeah, so, veteran issues, money issues, um. And then I have worked with, uh, residential youth, um, at risk youth, juvenile justice, associated youth, and then going back to um, the, the pit reference, my first job was an er social worker, so I really do have to watch that now because that is irrelevant.
Speaker 3:I will, I'll be like I'll be. I don't know about this.
Speaker 4:I don't think I would have done it that way.
Speaker 3:No, that's not right, that's right oh man, um, all right. So I think we got some, some pretty good topics already. I am curious to see what the audience, the listeners, would like to hear from us, or maybe they would like to hear less of me rambling about random things that are not relevant.
Speaker 2:We're not going to do that. We like to hear Tom and.
Speaker 3:Joey, I'm not going to stifle my creative crazy brain.
Speaker 1:Correct, it's your superpowers.
Speaker 3:Oh man. So yeah, superpowers. Just to recap, we've talked a lot about nerdy stuff. We've nerded out honestly over mental health stuff, nerded out honestly over mental health stuff. So if you know someone who's nerdy about mental health, this is going to be your podcast and to kind of highlight what the organization does. The plan is we're going to have I'm going to be interviewing other members of the Made Up Memphis team and we're going to be highlighting what they do and just kind of telling our story, because this is a nonprofit but the mission is very powerful and you know, we want to make a name for ourselves in the city of Memphis. So, yeah, okay, last thing I wanted to get you guys we had a really good discussion about main up, like the term main up, because a lot of people might have questions about it, and we talked about it with Rachel in our last interview. But what does main up mean to you guys?
Speaker 4:I can go, because we talked about this before. Main up is pretty much like a call to action. Main Up is pretty much like a call to action. It's almost like saying stand up to somebody who they're saying like oh, I have so far to go, I have to do this. On the other Right, Well, you're not going to get there just laying on the floor. Main Up, stand up, figure out what it is that you need. Talk to people right, Gather your resources and let's get over there. Yes, you can take over there. Like, yes, you can take a break, yes, you can do what you need to do to do your self-care and to heal. At the end of the day, what do we need to get done? How are we going to get it done? That's what MainUp is to me. Let's put together a plan.
Speaker 3:I like it. I like it.
Speaker 2:For me and hi guys, I'm still new here For me, man up is a play on the toxic masculinity around man up, you know, like just man up or suck it up or whatever, to a point or in a degree where it's not healthy on a mental and emotional level and oftentimes even physical level. I literally just experienced that with extended family, had somebody in our family who was manning up, wanted to be the provider for years, decades, and had a very serious diagnosis because of it, because he was so focused on being a provider that he neglected his health. But thankfully he had a family and those around him to be an intervention for him. He's much better now and on the road to getting better. So for man up, it's a colloquialism.
Speaker 2:If you live in Memphis it can be a very surface level word, but it also can be a very intimate word Like, hey, man, I know you man. So I think it's a play on the opposite of man up and it's encouraging those healthy circles and spaces for men, uh, to get what they need. So that's that's my vision, and not vision, but interpretation of what it means. Now, right, so if I got it wrong I'm sorry, um, but that's that's what I think it is.
Speaker 2:I actually would love to know um, if I was anywhere close to what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3:And we'll let the audience know next week. You can listen to my interview with Rachel, the last previous episode.
Speaker 4:Do your homework, Emmanuel. Yeah, I do?
Speaker 2:What is it with you? And homework? Do you have a trigger on?
Speaker 4:homework. I give everybody homework. It's great.
Speaker 2:Okay, your homework is to leave me alone. Thank you, I give everybody homework.
Speaker 1:It's great. Okay, your homework is to leave me alone. Thank you, I do oh man, All right, so I guess oh man.
Speaker 3:Oh man, this is getting spicy. So I guess I'm actually the newest to Memphis out of the three of us, so I've only been here for about two and a half three years. So I'm still, I'm still learning Memphis. I've been in and out of Memphis, you know, like traveling, passing through, visiting here a couple of times. But now I'm here and, you know, I'm still kind of like a student of Memphis in a way, and that's why I've learned a lot about you.
Speaker 3:We talked about barbecue places and we still I guess we're going to have to do a field trip at some point to some of these places. But yeah, main Up, as I started to learn about Maine, you know, and just like how it's used, like you were saying, emmanuel, it has a lot of variation to it I think and, like I said, more nuance than people realize. And I think it's been interesting watching some of the reactions of people as they come up and they're like main up, main up, memphis. You know, they kind of like they're nodding, they're trying, they're kind of processing it, and then they come to the booth and then then we give them our spiel and then they're like okay, yeah, I like what you guys are doing.
Speaker 3:You know, and I think I like the idea of it being like stepping up, like James was saying, like you, step up. And because it is and it's not meant only for men. We, you know, this is a very diverse organization, which is why I love it so much and yeah, so I mean I guess, yeah, main up for me is still up for a little bit of interpretation, but, yeah, step up. I really like that idea.
Speaker 2:Rachel's going to be like you are all wrong. Go to detention. We're going to delete that whole section Goodbye yeah. Rachel's, like the Amanda Waller for me.
Speaker 4:Who's Amanda Waller. I want to know what kind of interactions you've been having with her because, honestly, how are you getting in this kind of trouble?
Speaker 2:oh, well, amanda waller's like a boss and she runs this very um powerful network of like, and then I don't necessarily call it well villains, them villains, and they go on these missions and assignments and if you don't do it right, she's going to blow your head off so we're villains, huh alright.
Speaker 3:Well, that paints an interesting picture of Rachel, but exactly.
Speaker 4:I want to know what kind of trouble you've been getting into, sir, oh man this is all out of love. You don't got to out yourself to everybody, but you got to out yourself to us.
Speaker 2:It's Doctor Strange.
Speaker 3:Doctor Strange, I'm mixing universes, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because Doctor Strange is.
Speaker 2:Marvel Amanda is DC yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't want to anger any of the comic book fans. Yeah, they just took away. Yeah, we don't want to anger any of the the comic book fan they just took away my geek therapy certification this is how you get DQ'd from the certification like right here, by mixing up your right verses or getting Star Trek and Star Wars mixed up, that's a big one.
Speaker 3:well, gentlemen, you know this has been Star Wars mixed up. That's a big one. That's it. Well, gentlemen, this has been a gosh darn delight. I've been loving every second of this. I appreciate you guys taking time out of your schedules to kind of talk shop, talk about some mental health issues and set the tone for what the future of this organization looks like and what the future of maybe even mental health can look like, because we're looking into expanding this model into other markets if it works well, and I think it will. So, stay tuned to the MainUp Memphis podcast. Any last parting words, gentlemen?
Speaker 4:I do. Please, please, please. If you have any questions, please send them to info at main up memphisorg, or you can direct them to joey laswell. Its contact information is obviouslya part of the podcast that you're listening to right now. You can submit any questions that you have about mental health or about your experiences with interpersonal problems, maybe with your friends or your family, or maybe you just want to check in and be and ask like, am I crazy and we can tell you yes or no. You might say yes, but just be ready for that Cause I will hurt your feelings Therapeutically. Tough love, tough love, yeah, but send us your questions.
Speaker 3:We want to answer them for you guys.
Speaker 2:All right, Emmanuel, you got to follow that one.
Speaker 3:Take care of yourself and tune in next time. Yes, take care of yourself, take care of others, take care of your health. I will say you made me think of something earlier when you're talking about our physical health, and this is my last tangent, but um, oh sorry, um, that was embarrassing anyways. So, um, yes, uh, the the first booth that I went to for made up memphis. There was a prostate screen screening out there and I went ahead and went, you know, because I'm of that similar, of that age range, ish, I'm not going to say my actual age, um, and you guys can't either, but, um, you're not gonna believe it, but uh, yeah, so I did the screening and I my results came back and um, is a little on the bad side. Then it kind of got me worried. So I've been eating healthier and and I'm gonna go get a follow-up. So that's just my little psa that. Uh, you know these free screenings, or even if it's not free, then contact your PCP, which stands for Primary.
Speaker 2:Care Physician. Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3:For those who don't know, all you guys out there who don't know what that means, we're going to drill it into your heads. But yes, go talk to your PCP, go talk to your mental health professional and just be kind to each other. Listen to the next podcast. This is the Mood Dudes and we are out.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, that's a wrap for today's episode of the Main Up Memphis podcast. Remember, real change starts when you show up, break cycles and walk into something greater. If you felt inspired, do me three quick favors Subscribe and leave a note or a five-star review so that more people can find us. Share this episode with someone who might need a lift and get involved Volunteer, refer a youth or donate at madeupmemphisorg. Follow us on our socials at Made Up Memphis for behind-the-scenes goodness and send your questions or success stories to us and they might make it on air. Until next time here at Made Up Memphis, leave the baggage, keep the change.