26. Chronic Illness, Mold & Relationships: What Helps, What Hurts, and What Nobody Talks About

If chronic illness has made you feel like a burden to the people you love, you are not alone, and you are not imagining how hard this is.

Illness does not stay contained to the body. It moves through a household. It strains marriages, tests friendships, and quietly reshapes who you are in relationship to everyone around you. The fear that runs alongside it, the hypervigilance, the late-night symptom spirals, the feeling that you are asking too much, those things are just as real as any lab result. And most practitioners never make space to talk about them.

In this episode, Dr. Mark Su sits down with Michael Schrantz, IEP, for one of the most personal conversations this show has produced. Mike is a certified indoor environmental professional who has worked with thousands of clients on mold and environmental illness, and he is someone who went through it himself. He knows what it feels like to be in that dark place, to watch your partner carry weight you wish you could take back, and to wonder whether you will ever feel like yourself again.

This conversation covers the ground that most appointments never do.

What you will hear in this episode:

Mike talks about the moment he looked in the mirror and decided he was done living in fear, not denial of his illness, but a choice to stop letting fear run his days. He talks about his wife Jennifer, a flight instructor and realtor who held the household together when he could not, and what he learned about showing up for her even when he had very little left to give. He and Dr. Su get into what partners and caregivers tend to get wrong, including the way we dismiss ten concerns because eight of them seem emotional, when two of them are pointing at something important. And they talk about purpose, about why having something to get out of bed for matters in ways that go beyond motivation.

If you are a partner or caregiver listening to this, Mike has something specific to say to you too.

Key themes from this conversation:

• How mold illness and chronic illness reshape relationships in predictable, understandable ways
• What actually helps when someone you love is overwhelmed and scared, and what tends to make it worse
• Why fear-driven thinking keeps patients stuck and what the path forward looks like
• How Mike regulated his nervous system and found his footing during his own recovery
• The role of purpose, faith, community, and presence in healing, the things that do not show up on a lab panel but matter enormously

This is not a clinical episode. It is an honest one, and it may be exactly what someone in your life needs to hear.

About Michael Schrantz, IEP Michael Schrantz is a certified indoor environmental professional (IEP) and the founder of Environmental Analytics. He has worked with thousands of clients navigating mold-related illness and environmentally complex cases, and he hosts the IEP Radio podcast. Michael is a recurring guest on the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast and brings the perspective of both a seasoned environmental professional and someone who has personally walked through chronic illness and come out the other side.

Website: environmentalanalytics.net 

Podcast: IEPradio.com

Ready to stop guessing and finally get a clear plan?

Join Dr. Su for the Ask Dr. Mark Clinical Q&A Call, a small-group call limited to about five people each month where you can bring your real questions and get real direction.

Book your spot: https://go.rootseekhealth.com/askdrmark

Or download the free Lab Results Guide if you have ever been told your labs are normal while still feeling terrible:

 https://labsoptin.rootseekhealth.com/labs/

Connect with Dr. Su: IG | @rootseekhealth

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only.  Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Transcript

Surprise Topic And Real Talk

Dr. Mark Su 0:09

I'm Dr. Mark Stu and welcome to the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast. Join me and our community weekly as we bring you unfiltered health from inflation to longevity, real stories, real people, real solutions, experience real-life health choices from both patients and practitioners, and learn how to turn cutting-edge information into real results in your own life so you can feel better, live longer, live healthier, and be confident and clear in your healthcare choices. Let's get real and get results. Alright, folks, welcome back. This is the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast. I am Dr. Mark Sue, your co-host. I'm with Mike Schrantz again. This he is the Doctor of Holmes, and I am the Doctor of People. We have come to you with multiple sessions prior talking about the interface and the sort of uh interaction between, especially with people with chronic illness and chronic inflammation of various kinds of manifestations and symptoms, about the uh sort of collaborative evaluation and looking into and addressing of both sick people and their sick environments, specifically whether it's home, workplace, et cetera. But uh Hey, welcome back, Mike. Thank you, brother. It's so good to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Um uh I don't have a clue what we're talking about. That's right. So this is fighting.

Dr. Mark Su 1:24

Yeah, we we literally we had no we didn't even like socialize before jumping on here, other than maybe what, 30, 40 seconds. And so uh very apropos, you'd said, uh, hey, I'm a little anxious or nervous about this like surprise topic here, but it's only like a level one out of 10, which is pretty darn good given you said what? Given what context?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Well g well, given the context that normally my background is like, you know, ang anxiety and just you know that kind of worry being worried. So like it's feeling pretty good, you know. I mean, I don't think you're gonna lob me like like a bomb, but at the end of the day, there's always that thing that all of us want to do. Like we all want to prep, we all want to be in control of everything. So I'm totally out of control of this and it feels fine.

Dr. Mark Su 2:04

This could be a relationship changing event. We'll see. But yes, I I I said to you, hey, are you up for just a surprise topic? And you said, Hey, yeah, let's go for it. All right. So here we are, totally raw and unscripted, uh, even more than our usual raw and unscripted. You you ready? Yeah, shoot. All

A Kids Comment That Lands

Dr. Mark Su 2:23

right. So I'm looking in front of me right now a uh a Facebook post. All right. It's from a week ago, almost today. I think it might be to date. Uh one day off. It's your wife's post. Whoa. And here and her comment and her, and here's where here's I'm just reviewing it because that's this is where we're leading off. The boys were watching something on TV and said, That family is so messed up. I said, a lot of families are messed up. Both boys looked at me in shock and said, Not our family, and that is everything. Do you uh I assume you saw that or knew about it?

unknown 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah. Little movie? Very. My wife is known to really be like the family poster of social media, that is to say, posting on social media. And she does a wonderful job, you know. We we like to use it in healthy ways and family that are not near us and all that. And uh she always is making good posts. A lot of times she's uh sh I don't want to use the word showing off, but definitely showing off what wonderful work she does, like with baking and everything else. Just this woman needs to open up a baking company. But when I saw that post the other day, I hadn't heard the kids say that, uh, but I saw the posts and it it it hit it hit home because as a father, I I always wonder if I'm even not when I if I could use a baseball analogy, if I'm hitting the ball, if I'm even in the park. And what I mean to say by that, and we probably could use a better analogy now that I think about it, because the whole point is to get a home run and knock it out of the park. But I guess the point is is sometimes I don't even know how close I am to be being doing a good job. I'm I'm critical of myself. And so when I saw that, that one, that one hit.

Dr. Mark Su 3:51

Yeah. So this I I actually put a reply on there. Uh you can't buy that or fabricate it. Keep up the hard work, Mama, Papa. And then a little more. But look, um, and I won't go into the rest of that because it's not pertinent. But the the you know, what what struck me there, so that that's why now you know why I said, hey, uh, it's a little fresh on my mind. If we're able to squeeze this in, I'd love to be able to just uh connect with you on this because uh I love that you're doing this, Mort. At least for yeah uh at least for me. I mean I knew it was a surprise to you, but at least for me, you know, it was just uh that sort of emotional space won't you know it'll change over time. And but here here's here's where I'm here's what I'm bringing to you today. It's a it's a little bit of a combination of topics here, right? But we've been talking, we've had multiple sessions, you and I, on this podcast about yeah, you know, Doctor of Homes, Doctor of People. Um ultimately it's not so much about the you know, the person or space. Ultimately, we're we're both very relational people. We're both very uh people-oriented, service-oriented. Um, you know, we our heart our hearts are very similar, our sort of like life missions are similar. We've talked a lot about the limbic system, right? This whole like limbus limbic dysregulation, or, you know, put in more layman's terms, fight or flight, sympathetic overdrive, adrenaline overdrive for various reasons. Mostly we've talked about it in context of the physical, physiologic, that being a physiologic consequence from brain inflammation from mold toxins. And then we've talked a lot about it being due to social media and other stuff that with gaslighting around us, you know, friends, family, and et cetera, about, or even practitioners, human pre people practitioners, about the topic of mold illness, especially in our environment, right? And it's yeah, it's about the mold, it's about life, it's about social media, it's about our friends and family and other practitioners uh uninten even unintentionally gaslighting us. But hey, uh there's a lot of there's a lot of fight or flight that happens just from our our relationships in our personal lives, right? And we've kind of talked about that here and there, but there's a lot of toxicity in our personal lives. Uh, I don't know that anybody is void of that completely. But, you know, when I when I saw that from your yeah, when I saw that from your wife, I was just like, your boys are lucky, man. Your boys are your boys are real lucky because uh, you know, you guys are doing the work, but they're so fortunate because you and I have talked a lot about uh patients who struggle and can't and aren't getting better and how much uh of that is contributed to by adverse childhood events, right? Ace scores and childhood uh experiences and just life, even micro traumas, whatever. And so y you guys are uh doing we're in a lot better place today, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

You know, it was a struggle, Mark. It was a struggle. Uh I won't go dig too deep, but I'll just maybe throw out a bone. Um when I was going through my health stuff, you know, it hit me like a freight train. I was I was already stressing, you know, like had all the pre-symptoms, things that are in your you know, your wheelhouse, things that you recognize. I've seen you post things and your posts just hit different, by the way. But we'll talk about that another time, just in a solid way. I love it. But I remember, and I and we won't get all into it, but I know I share with you kind of like the day I came home from the gym, went to the office, I looked at this stack of files, and it should have, I should have looked at it as job security. These were clients, these files, and I was working with them, but everybody needed help. And uh, when it hit me in my home, ultimately, I'll just give you kind of like the cliff note version is I realized that when I was going through my health stuff, it was my partner that I had uh who I was very blessed, very lucky, because not everybody has this, who she really had to carry the weight. Like, I know you and I both have our spiritual, religious beliefs, but if I could use the whole analogy of the yoke, Jen, my wife, Jennifer, really carried a lot of the extra weight. She had to take the kids to different things, or even if it was just school, she had to show up more extra emotional because I was distant. And as you were talking, I kind of relived a little bit of that and and remembered how helpless I felt because I felt selfish. Like I'm like, I gotta do everything I gotta do just to stay afloat. So it's gonna be about me right now. And I don't like that. Not not to say that I've never had me moments, that, you know, whatever, but as a theme, that's not who I am. And that that was really tough for me. And that post reflects a lot of work from everybody, a lot of love. And man, just I'll let you kind of sort us through this, but a lot of different emotions.

Care For The Caregiver

Dr. Mark Su 8:19

Yeah, that's that's uh that actually was a meaningful part of what I was hoping to direct us on a a little bit, which is, you know, I mean, ultimately, there's several layers here, right? What which come to my mind. One is just who you you and your wife are as individuals, and then there's the piece about who you guys are together. And then um how so it's self self-care individually, it's uh self-care corporately between the two of you. I we might, hey, we could just say marriage, which is ongoing care. Ongoing care. Like it that that many of us uh, you know, many of us myself included, but we don't, it's it's it's a hard, it's a hard thing, right? I mean, there's a reason divorce rates are as high as they are in the US, right? Life happens. And so um there's it's all this stuff about self-care. And I think, you know, it just dawned on me kind of like in a flash, I don't know, maybe not in a moment reading that post from her, but over the next 24 hours, just a collection of life experiences. And I was like, you know, Mike's gone through stuff with his own health, you know, and we haven't really talked about that. And uh we talk about the limbic system stuff, dysregulation, emotional dysregulation, fight or flight with patients with gaslighting from social media and we and from actual physiologic toxins and all that stuff. But there's still the piece about just how do we live our lives, you know, as individuals outside of all that stuff, just on a how do we our decision making or our routines, uh some of it's just our behavioral self-routines. But more specific to you is, you know, we've talked about this, I think, in our board meetings about care for the caregiver, right? And um caring for the self. Like we as as practitioners, I'm gonna say practitioners, but you know what here I mean whether it's human practitioners or or IEPs as home practitioners, like if you are serving people, like it it takes it, it it's it's ongoing work to take care of ourselves so that we can show up best for other people, right? That whole airplane gas, you know, oxygen mask analogy. Yeah, take care of yourself first. Yeah. I think we I think I I don't know that I've had those. You and I've had some of those conversations, but not in a more meaningful way. You know, we've gone so we've we've kind of gone through Mary Joe's story on the podcast, you know, like what she's gone through as a patient. But hey, we've never like talked about possibly going through your story. And we don't need to like go through a lot of that per se, if you, you know, wherever you want to go with this. It's really I'm being verbose. I'm bringing it here, bringing it home. You you guys obviously are doing something right for your boys to say, not our family, all right. There's something you guys are doing right, and I think specific to you as a starting point, what is it you're you know, I'm just like opening it up, opening leaving it open for you. Like, what is it that you do to keep yourself regulated and uh you know, self-care so that you can be your best person for your clients as an IAP?

The Mirror Moment That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_00 10:54

One of the things that really helped me, you know, to to address that question. One of the things that helped me was the day that I had woke up, I was going through my health stuff. I'd been a couple years in. You know, it's that whole thing for many of you listening where you live by the by the day, by the hour, by the activity, whatever it is, like whatever your your rate is. Uh I I had woken up one day and I realized that I just kept worrying. And it was always something. And I, you know, I I know we've talked about this part, but that I would always look at it. So worrying, right? Yeah, worrying. I was I was anxious. Uh I would worry, and then I would go online to read about a symptom. And then, of course, if you do that, and this was before AI. Uh, so you might I can only imagine how that makes things easier or harder or what. I would always read something about the symptom, you know, leads to death, leads to cancer. You, you, you know, you have this, you have that. And I never and then I would, and then I would look. I feel like an addict. I would, I would continue looking until I found some article, some publication that made me feel better until the next day, until the next symptom. And where I'm going with this is I woke up one day and looked in the mirror and said, I'm done. I'm that is to say, to be clear, I'm done worrying. Now that now I understand that in that moment, I realized I was still gonna have challenges. But what I what I chose to do for me was my relationship with God as I personally gave it up to Him. I said, I trust you. It is what it is, and I'm going to live my best life. I am thankful for what I have. And this was a real low point as this is happening, like where I was at that moment prior to that feeling. It's a really low spot for me, right? Just more day-to-day grind, my wife stressing out, all the stuff that happens behind closed doors that many people who have couples partners have experienced. And and then I said, I'm done. I'm like, I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna take that walk in the morning, even if it's only five minutes. And then I'll make it eight minutes because fatigue was a thing for me. And I'm gonna trust that's gonna get better. And with the same supplements that I was on, the same detox program I was on, the same environments I was in, I wasn't going out and doing assessments at the time. So a lot of virtual work. I got better after two or three months. And in that moment, which really goes back to your original question here, I realized that wow, I have a lot to be thankful for. And this is this was a really mind-bending, like, oh wow, like so. I I don't know for sure that my attitude was what changed it. You, you know, my were synapses reconnecting, and all of a sudden I wasn't always feeling that, you know, that being in that sympathetic state where I'm always feeling like a tiger's chasing me. Like I just, I did have moments, right? Like I would get in there, I'd say, Nope, I'm starting to worry. Nope, not worrying about it. And and I still was mindful. Like I wasn't gonna go walk in a moldy basement. Uh, but I realized in that moment that I need to cherish what I have and I need to show up. And and I got, I got, I'm probably using the wrong chemical name, but I got my dopamine hit by being able to show up to my kids' Cub Scout meetings or being able to go out for dinner with the family and have put a smile on my face and be present, uh, even though I was always, I wasn't 100% in the moment, right? Like I'm getting there. It's a journey. So experiencing that moment that I told you I woke up, I looked in the mirror, and then starting to notice those changes and oh my gosh, like nothing else has changed. Like I'm not dealing with the different, I'm not dealing with different supplements. I'm not changing my diet. I'm not doing anything. And I'd already gone through the diet, like the gut reset and all that at this point, trying to figure out what's up. What did it for me personally to make my resolve to be a better parent, a better husband, a better person, and more kind to myself? Like I'm like beating myself up with all this worry. I didn't even realize it. I'm just like a type A, probably have some OCD tendencies, throwing a little ADHD. Like I think I have everyone's got like a spectrum. And I just said, I'm just gonna be kind to myself and show up. And I what I didn't realize was the things that I thought were gonna fatigue me out, the things that I thought were gonna stress me out, all of a sudden, because that thing switched by looking in the mirror and working on it for a couple, two, three months, were actually not stressful anymore. They were the opposite. I couldn't wait to do them. And yeah, Mark, I still have my moments, right? Like we all have our moments. We're not, it's not a perfect journey, but like it's been so rewarding. And I'm doing things now, Mark, that not only I couldn't even come close to doing while I had my illness and was dealing with the symptoms of it, but that I've ever done. I'm I'm 45 now, and I was young 40s when I was going through my my my journey, and I'm hiking in the mountain with 40 pounds of weight on my back on a backpack, uh, you know, 10 miles. Like I'm I'm I'm doing things that I never did before. And I think it was the wake-up call of like, yes, you need to address whatever is that's going on. Like, why are you so stressed? Like I'm an empath, right? So I end up be connected with P with people, and and it's hard to let that go. It's like, how do doctors do it? Like everyone comes in with a problem. And it's like, how are you not leaving your office depressed? And you know, I had to learn about that and and how to take care of myself. But the point was, is it became almost, I wouldn't say an obsession mark, but it became a definite strong interest of saying, I'm gonna show up. If this was a all mic thing or an all-God thing, or a little bit of everything, like sprinkle in some good supplements and detoxings that helped me along the way. Great. Yeah. Why do I not, why do I wanna I let me flip that? I don't want to take this new opportunity and just let it go because of some fear, like I'll re-trigger myself and I'll go back to where I was three years ago. It's like, no, no, I'm just gonna be smart about it. So it led it it let my kids, they're innocent. They have an eight-year-old and a 10-year-old now. So they're obviously a couple few years younger at the time, and they just want to see dad. It doesn't matter what car I drive, what house I live in. They just want to see me show up. And even if it's for something as small as listening to my older son, as long as you have some pants on. Yeah, as long as I have some pants on. Yes, I gotta have clothes. Which I'm glad you clarified that because you never know nowadays. Just showing up, and then all of a sudden, and I'll end it on this, Mark, is all the things that you would probably guess would have happened started to happen. I started showing up more, my kids started being happier, my wife starts seeing this, she starts getting happier. I it's like a it's a synergistic effect. It's just the love, the energy of saying, okay, like my wife has done so much for me, and she still continues to do. Like I'm never going to be able to meet what my wife does. And as a, as a, as a person that was raised in a way that always felt like, you know, I need to take care of myself, I need to be the provider and all that. I'm I'm not old school in in some sense of it, but my wife has not only stepped up to the plate but and and and been the provider, but she continues to be the big provider. And I I guess all that to be said is that I realized I had something to live for. And I did use that. I should have probably mentioned that a little bit ago to you, Mark, but I realized that I am so lucky because I have something to aim for. And what I want to aim for are loving my kids, loving my wife, and being present. So it just changed. And I can't say I was that way, Mark, when I was in those dark places, right? Where I was so I was, I, you know, I can't deal with my kids right now that are outside of my office who just want to play with me or ask me questions because I'm busy going on the internet looking up my symptoms and I'm just enveloped in it. And that's something that unfortunately I know people, a lot of people relate to, and I'm so grateful that I was able to get out of 98, 99% of that.

Dr. Mark Su 18:30

Hmm. Yeah, and I'm curious, do do you and Jennifer ever uh r reflect on and talk about that shift, that transition from, you know, years ago, or yeah, no, no, we've kind of like, you know, are in a different space now, and it's uh thankfully it's something in the past and we're grateful for. But yeah, not so much.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

We've had uh we have had a couple of talks. I feel like I owe my wife, myself, my kids another, like in like in a casual but really important way. It doesn't have to be all right, sit down. This is you know, I feel like I feel like I owe another one. But yeah, there were a couple of moments where just my wife and I had some deep talk and she expressed how much she loved me and loves us and and all of that, but how tough it was for her. And she's got her own stuff that she's dealing with. And it's like, cool, you got your own stuff, we'll take on my load. And she did it for me because she loves me, and that's the kind of one person that she does, or she is. And so we did make some peace with it, and I have recognized it. But to be honest with you, I I'm as you ask that question, I'm realizing that I don't know that it's kind of an interesting topic, Mark. And not not your question, but just I want to give my wife more recognition than what I've already done. How about that?

Dr. Mark Su 19:40

Well, Father's Day is coming up. Yeah, at least at the time of this recording, like, yeah, there you go.

unknown 19:46

Yeah.

Dr. Mark Su 19:46

I mean, I'll I'll joke aside. Yeah. I mean, you know, so we could we could move that from, you know, we start we're talking about just care for the self, right? Care for the caregiver and self-care. And then uh you're referencing in we could easily then we we alluded to it earlier, talking about just uh, you know, marriage, right? Or whatever, partnership, just whatever relationship that people might be in with a uh committed partner that uh yeah, the care of that relationship uh takes ongoing effort as well, right? But again, like you guys are doing something, right? Right when you when your kids make that kind of comment. So yeah, any any thoughts on n what you guys are doing together, you know, for your the health of your relationship together or as a family as a whole?

Marriage Means Showing Up

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Our lives are so busy as it relates to my relationship with my wife. One of the things that I have found, and then once again, it's it's kind of similar to the kids, is they just want you to show up. My wife just wants me to show up. I mean, I'm uh my my wife's a pilot, not by uh career, but since she was 12 years old, loved to go flying. She's a flight instructor. In fact, she just took her renewal example. No idea. Holy crap. That's actually how we met. But um we met because I was learning to become a private pilot. She, she, but she clearly loves it at the next level than I do. And so where I'm going with that is a couple things. Number one, just showing up. Just kids go to bed. Our kids go to bed right now at an early enough time so that they get their rest, but also that mommy and daddy get to have their time together without our kids asking 40 questions in a minute. And we love our kids, but it's just we need to kind of off-gas. We have to take care of ourselves and take care of the caregiver, right? And so just being with each other. Yes, we have times where we'll watch a show, or if something it's kind of funny, it just happens organically, right? Like you'll go in and you might be talking about the weather, and the next three minutes you're talking about like the top three things that are really that you're dealing with, or she's dealing with as a realtor, because she also does that and works with people who are sensitive and all that. And we'll get into it. And I find that when I leave, it's like therapeutic, right? It's like I feel closer, I feel bonded. And then the other thing is just really trying to I I realize that we're cut from different cloths. You know, I mean, in terms of like I have no problem saying, hey, I want to find time to go out with my family. Family or with just my friends, my guy friends, and we want to go out and we want to go hiking or fishing or something like that. And my wife loves all that and she's very supportive of it, but my wife's not like she's so busy, it's hard for her. So then it's me showing up and saying, you need to do something. Like, what is it that you want to do? And it's like, well, you know, I'm not really a go out and hang out with the girls that much type of person. But whenever there's an opportunity, it's like, I'm like, I'm like doubling down, Mark. I'm like, please do that. In fact, schedule something else. And she's I've been noticing she's been doing more of that. But her big thing is like she wants to have, you know, she wants to work and save towards being able to do the things that she loves, which is have access to an airplane or something. It's not necessarily something that we're gonna buy, but the point I'm saying is is giving her the opening to do that and me fighting for it, right? Because that's what she's needing me to do is I need to, because she's such a giver mark, it's hard for her to take care of herself, which is the caregiver of our family, the care. And then she ends up getting run over. So it's like she's asking me without directly asking me, although she has a couple of times been very direct, is I just need you to fight for that for me and and make that like a priority. And it's like, you're right. And I think I'm so busy, and that's not that's not a good excuse. I have to take care of my caregiver. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. We're working on that. It's been really good. We're in a good spot right now with my boys. The good news is that I knew that I would struggle as a father to make myself available, like if I had that email, or even today, Mark was around the call. I get a text message from a client who I haven't talked to in months. And this particular client is very wonderful, Mark, has my personal phone number and didn't and and it's like text me this issue. It's like, can you meet today? And then that was this morning. And and then he this this client took his text message and emphasized it with an exclamation mark just so I'd get another notification. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's like it uh it in that when that happens, if I'm at the house and the boys are home, my truth, the that client would probably get the uh the priority. And so to counter that weakness that I have, I've gotten myself heavily involved with scouting with the boys. I'm the Cubmaster for my younger son's pack. My kids involve with Boy Scouts, my older boy. And so I that's a weekly thing. And we're going camping. I'm gonna be Mark, I know you don't know this, but this coming Sunday, we're leaving for a week to go on a on a Boy Scout camp out in New Mexico, like a solid run. I didn't know where, but I did know. Okay, forgive me, forgive me. Well, did you know that I'm leaving on that one Thursday so that I could drive and then go up with my younger son to another camp north of us? And so it's like this whole outing thing. It's I've surrounded myself by things that I love to do. Um, and it's like find that bond, find find an easy way for you to commit and then show up. And my kids are excited. In our living room right now, we have camp boxes set up in preparation. Like it's all we're all nerding out together. It's like, all right, we got this, we got that, we're going through it. And so we just really try to find that. And I think, I think on the days when I wake up, what I know, what I've learned from my own journey, Mark, is I've learned enough about my body to know that when you don't feel 100%, I used to think that was automatic. Don't try, don't get out of bed. And and don't get me wrong, I know we can come up with some examples where it's a good idea to stay in bed. I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about the times where I felt like that. And it's like, no, get out, go for a walk, go run, go play ball, go do this. And every time I do that, probably not a shocker to you, uh, I feel great when I get done. I feel alive, I'm woken up, I'm ready to go. My adrenals feel good, or however that you know, I just feel good. And it's like that was a real wake-up call for me because I know that when I was in that dark place, any little thing. I was like, whoa, I don't, I don't, I can't, I don't even get off this couch because that might, you know, and then the stuff you hear, the stuff you read. So I've been very fortunate to learn those lessons. I had an exposure to a speaker at a recent weekly meeting I have with an organization I'm involved with. And this lady was a patient, and she had gone on there and she had made a quote or she had made a comment quoting the Bible, something along the lines of, you know, these, these, these obstacles, these, these challenges, uh, we have to learn. And good luck. I know it's a challenge for all of us to embrace and almost look forward to it, like you know it's going to be healing afterwards. In the moment, you might not be thinking that. But I really just took, I mean, that was like a great reminder. It was like, you're right. It's like, don't get stuck in the mud of where you're at in the moment. It's very difficult to do, right? When you're in the trenches and you feel like crap and you have like a friend or a partner going, it's no big deal, you can do it. Sometimes it just doesn't hit the way that maybe we all wish it did hit. Like you're right, I shouldn't be like this, and then you get up. It's a struggle. So we uh all that to be said, being present with my family has been my therapy, it's been my medicine. And it's it's quite frankly, Mark, after talking with you with this surprise topic today, it's gonna be another reminder when my kids get home it to be present and to be just thankful for the the the most the beautiful things that are right in front of my face and to not worry about the things that we can't control. And I'm very fortunate for that. And I hope not to ever forget that because I'm sure there'll be another challenge. Inevitably there will be another challenge that I have to face.

Dr. Mark Su 27:16

Yeah. Yeah. I think I yeah, that's really good stuff. Like it's really good stuff. It's um yeah, I mean I'm the analytical part of my brain kind of kicks in when you talk about, first of all, when you talk about um showing up like, you know, Mary Jo likes to use that term a lot too, you know. And uh sometimes I wonder myself, like, what does that really mean? And I think uh I kind of heard you indirectly define it in part as making some intentional efforts with whether the micro the decision, micro decision in the moment to compartmentalize and put aside things that might be on your mind or whatever, to just be present. And that's that's an internal from my personal experience, and I'm sure I'm not alone, it's a it's an internal challenge. That's it's just sometimes it's just really tough, whether it's out of habit or whatever the case may be. Um other times it's I think I heard you say uh it's intentional creating of opportunity to be present, like the whether it's the the the Cub Scouts, the pack leader, the the camping trips, you know, making those intentional um appointments or events, creating those events, those those opportunities. Um and then the analytical analytical part of my brain could really kicks in and goes, okay, so yeah, what is it like when I because I I would be a I would be a terrible I I I I said before, I I fortunately just I I don't take pride in it. It's just I haven't wrestled through a lot of these chronic health issues that we talk about. I would suck so bad as that kind of patient. I would be the biggest whiner and a half-glass empty person constantly. I think I'd be so miserable and everybody else make everybody else around me miserable. But and so I'm just thinking like if I was in that shoe, or right, or when I hear somebody else talking about being in that shoe as a patient, you know, I'm I just like sympathize with how they feel. And I'm like, I don't know how to I don't know how there there's something else. I'm sure there's plenty. You you've you I'm sure you had those ex I'm guessing you had some of those experiences where you're you're like, okay, I just need to go do it. But then you're like, oh, but I really and then you don't. I I just don't want to today, like, okay, today could be different. I'm just gonna give myself whatever and just stay in bed or whatever the case may be. It's not always, you know, good outcome and positive and all that stuff, right? It's uh there's very variable experiences, a spectrum of experiences. But uh yeah, what what do what do how do how do we as how do we, whether you as an IP or you know, I was gonna ask, I don't know how often you come across these kinds of conversations with clients. Or, you know, I'm sure you do, no doubt, you come across clients talking about how bad they feel, right? Or at times talk about like how all the various symptoms, the intensity of the symptoms, and just like feeling crappy and you know, exacerbating this and that, because then they're coming to you going, is there something we missed? Is there something that, you know, that thing that we didn't address and all that kind of thing, right? And I don't know how often, I'm curious how often you take the the time or the moment to, you know, for for various reasons or not to stop and kind of whether it's just hear them out or a word of encouragement or whatever. And that's true, you know, I just don't know how like how do we how do we best do that, right? Whether it's as a friend, as a spouse or partner for someone else who's suffering or as a as a you know, as a caregiver, whether environmentally or for humans, whatever, right? Like if it almost feels trite for me, you know, to go like it's okay, you can do it. You know, or okay, I I I I understand. Well, I don't know if I can really say I understand because I haven't been through that, okay, on that level. But what like how do you how do we how do we as practitioners of whatever sort, how do how do we respond? Like when you're in that situation, if you were to say, if you'd been in that experience with a practitioner, you know, or you were to if you can imagine being back in that shoe in the past, what what lands for you well and what doesn't, you know, as a as a word of encouragement to say, because I don't know what that person's really experiencing. Maybe they is it possible they really physically can't get out of bed? Like uh sure, it it's a it's a possibility to me, right? So who might uh who might assess whether they can really push through it or not? I don't know.

How To Support Clients Without Fear

SPEAKER_00 30:55

You know, I love this question because I do have a lot of, you know, might say the environmental experience with when clients show up. So I do a lot of virtual consultations, right? So I I work with people uh around the globe, certainly a lot in the US and near nearby neighboring countries. And before I ever had my health thing, I I know you I I recall that you do know this, at least uh before I had my health thing, I already had interviewed two people on my uh podcast, IEP Radio, about the limbic system. And so I was doing fine health-wise. There was nothing, no, nothing symptomatic that I was picking up on. But I did it because, to answer your question, or at least to lead into it, so many clients I'd spend like the first 20, 30 minutes both listening and reverse engineering things that assumptions they were making. And I'm not talking about like like critical things like that are might maybe complex, like, so should I use a binder or like in a in the what's kind? Like, do you prefer charcoal over this? Or do what about talk to me about antifungals? Like it wasn't even to me, my optically, I think those are more complex. It was things like using terms like mold free. I read, my doctor said, I have to have mold free, or I had a symptom and I must be getting exposed. And I always, I'm always careful not to play doctors, stay in my lame. My track record, you know, shows that as much publicly and behind scenes with colleagues, is that it's like I never knew. So, so to so to get into that question, how I do it is I listen and I find out what their their concerns are. It might be something specific, it might just be I don't even know where to start. And then I'll pick up on things because I am listening. And it's like, okay, so they are I I see good percentage of this. So I'll bring up this one example. It seems like uh 40, 60 percent in that neighborhood of clients I work with will say something on the lines of, well, I had a symptom, therefore I must be having an exposure. And of course that worries them, understandably. And I would say, I gotta be honest with you, that's certainly a doctor question. I go, but I don't know of any patient or any doctor that I've talked to, as a friend, as a colleague, that ever says that that ever has said that the road to recovery is a perfect uphill improvement, that each day is always better, which would imply that you wouldn't have that symptom that you had yesterday, because then you, if you did, it wouldn't be necessarily getting better. It would you you would always be getting better. Our bodies are complicated, our homes are complicated. And that journey of experiencing that and then going, well, I've had people that say, well, I must have an issue and now I have to remediate that crawl space and we don't have any money. And what uh the gift that I've been given is not just to listen and not to be like, oh, it's fine, you'll be okay. Like that that to me is to me personally is elementary. I understand the intention. I understand it's meant to be well, but most people, it just doesn't seem like that hits if you just show up and you're like, you're gonna be fine, you'll be great. And and and and I love that hope. And I know they will uh get better with some basic, you know, corrections, whether it's their health or the environment. But even they even then they get in overwhelmed with, well, I've heard these things about how it cost all this money. And what they don't realize is there are so many things that you can do in your environment. And so we talk about those things, like DIY things and getting help and or starting with just one room because maybe they're overwhelmed about trying to address their whole house. And it's like, listen, you don't have to build roam in a day. You don't have to solve everything, in other words, in one moment, one action, one month. Many people don't do that. By the time they get to me, usually people have been dealing with an environmental exposure for years. And I remind people of that and I go, where's the fire? Like, why are we panicking? And I don't say it now, I don't say that coming in off the gate. I have to earn the respect to know that they know that I'm fighting for them. And maybe that's the key point right there is that I am, I tell 80% of the people I work with, usually uh once we're you know a bit into the call, I'm gonna treat you like your family. I'm gonna treat you like you're my brother or my sister. How would I, how would I do if you were my family? And I'm here for you. I tell them you're the boss. I want to let you know that I hear you and all that. But I know you've come to me because you know that my reputation is to be a fulcrum, a balance and not to go too extreme, like be cowboy hillbilly. Hey, there ain't nothing wrong with mold, don't be a sissy, versus the extreme, burn your house down, throw everything away, because you did one DIY sample in your house and you've read up on it and you're assuming or you saw one person who might have a good reputation, maybe not, maybe just know how to really market themselves on social media real well, tell you things and it's not coming from a place of science. And that's where I'll land my airplane here is then we'll bring in the science. It's like, well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about what normal fungal ecology or exposure looks like. Let's talk about why your ecology, where you live in the swamps of Georgia, is going to look different than Tucson, Arizona. Let's look at that and then let's come up with a game plan. And let's, and I think what ends up working is that so many people come to me desperate without any direction that the biggest thing they're looking for, other than any sort of bonus, like words of like light bulbs of, oh my gosh, I thought it literally had to be mold-free. Or I thought that if I had a mold exposure in my bedroom, that I had to throw everything away. Uh and a funny story, people don't often there are people that are concerned about throwing away their $4,000 avocado mattress, but a lot of times the stress comes from like, it was the wedding dress or something that great grandma made for us. And it's like, why are we assuming that?

Dr. Mark Su 36:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Why can't we just, you know, deal with that? So we walk through that, give them a step and a game plan. And if I was to back up and look at that and go back to your question, I'd be like, I'm just listening.

Stop Treating Mold Like Plutonium

SPEAKER_00 36:35

I'm showing up. I'm not jumping on a bandwagon of fear. I think that we have, Mark, we have people that mean well, but push an element that it almost feels fear-based. It's like, oh no, you don't want to do that. Don't ever fly on an airplane. Just at a client like that, because you'll reset yourself. It's like, where's that coming from? And how do they know that you're going to reset yourself? Because I get that analytical brain too. But then I'm also in that same moment, I feel nervous, right, Mark? Because I'm like, well, do you know Mike? And it's like, well, not by way of going on a commercial airline and running studies with a fat like an N equals a thousand patients and seeing how they all respond under different conditions of the plane that we set up and spending $10 million to do this study. No, I don't know it that way. But I'm able to use a lot of common sense about the physics behaviors of contamination, its presence, its background, what I know about airplanes, and go, why don't you just try doing this and see if this works? And you know what, Mark? I've had people that have been so sheltered, so afraid to do anything for the because they're afraid of exposure and the consequences of it, resetting back to zero, having to start over all these me, all this money, all these years. And they did it and they feel better. And they're like, oh my gosh, that was so therapeutic. And I go, that's what I'm trying to tell you. I'm not trying to say that mold's not an exposure. I mean, that was my issue. That's what I do for a living. But we are treating this like it's plutonium at times. And by we, because I know I know how you can sometimes think. I'm gonna be clear. I don't mean mark mean Mark or I. And I'm not saying that every person that does this line of work, whether it's a doctor of the health or a doctor of the home, are doing it. But we have enough people out there that are feeding this type of information where I don't feel like it's helping Mark. I feel like we need to realize that it is a serious thing for some people, but it's not an your house is on fire thing. And we can address it in a very meaningful way.

Dr. Mark Su 38:22

Yeah. So I think I hear it as uh I think so we're trying to bring it so if pertinent to potential people if you know different kinds of people who might be listening, then it might be, okay, so if you're a if you're a practitioner, you know, I think this goes this is to me, it's a little redundant, but uh it needs to be said. Hey, uh a lot of the therapeutic value and benefit that people, whether as an IEP or as a human practitioner, a lot of the value that our clients and patients get is just the the sort of energy and the regulation that we bring to the table. Yeah. You talked about being that fulcrum of balance and so uh we've talked about this before, but uh yeah, I think we can you and I can step out of our comfort zone a little bit and just adamantly say to our colleagues of either type, please don't gaslight your clients and patients. Right. Um and and it starts with like being aware of whether we're doing it, right? And uh yeah, or at least start to maybe we should we some of us need to step back and take a look at ourselves and just question whether we're gaslighting our clients or patients, even if unintentionally. Right. And uh and there's different ways of doing it. Sometimes it's in content, sometimes it's in the the nonverbal expressions, the the tone, the the pace of how we're talking, et cetera, et cetera. Some of the you know, some things we may not have control of, right? Some of us are just more more excitable and flamboyant in personality, and others of us are more sedate. So whatever. But to the to within your spectrum of uh persona and capability and willingness to assess yourself, that's the best we can ask, right? As a practitioner, just to our colleagues, it's very worthwhile just to stop and reassess how you're coming across and how you're showing up, you know, with with and messaging to clients and patients.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

And not even, Mark, not to interrupt you, but even self-reflecting, like I have found that so we all have strengths and maybe weaknesses, right? Uh and we know like, okay, I'm good at this, but I'm not really good at doing this. And maybe this that you're not good at is the communication. I have found that just being honest and stating those things, like basic tenets of childhood learning, you know, uh but we all are guilty of not it's just uh guilty might be a little it might be a little strong, but we all uh do this where we forget. It's like, I don't if I'm a if especially in the professional cons you know, expert consultant category, because we could surmise or hypothesize that one of the reasons why a uh an IEP or a clinician might not be willing to be honest about what they that the what they don't know as much about or or even about their own personal things, like I realize that I had this illness and so I'm very protective, and it's like, oh, but wait, like are you being protective in a healthy way or in in a little combination of a healthy way but also a scary way?

Dr. Mark Su 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

And to be honest, yes, our biases. Thank you. And and and just being honest is uh I've said this for over a decade, and it still seems to prove true. We're in an industry where you don't even have to be that good, but if you're open and honest and you can clearly communicate, uh people are desperate for that. Yes, of course, they your your the patient wants you to be the best. And they also don't want you to, you know, I I joke a little bit, they don't want you to charge anything. I understand there's an uh there's there's frictions and there's issues with that. But is to say that when I do show up, what is important, what I have have observed, and it certainly was important for me, so maybe that's my bias, is but it's also I can't, if I'm being honest, I can say it also feels like a little bit of common sense here, is that it's not always what you say, it's how you say it. And when you when you whether you give somebody a DNA ERMI uh dust sample result, and you say, you see all that red on there, that's triggering, or you do a urinary mycotoxin sample and they flip to the second page that lists all the carcinogenic effects of that mycotoxin. If you don't deliver that information in the way that it should really be intended to be delivered, not just as qualitative factual information about this particular okra toxin A or this or this and the other, there are consequences to people that would receive it, the patient, and go, oh my gosh, this just really feels overwhelming. And that goes marked full, full circle back to that moment that I looked in the mirror when I was going through my health stuff, is I was receiving everything in the your house is on fire, you're gonna get cancer tomorrow, and even dealing with those internals of why those things worry me. Like I had to do some lot of self-reflection and healing. I saw a counselor and went got through all that sort of thing. And the whole point is that that's what doesn't just help me with my family, clear communication, but it helps me with my clients and realizing that here's what we know, here's what we don't know. Good news. Uh we live on earth, you're surrounded by these things that's normal background. So the goal's not zero. And we're gonna, we want you to improve, but we don't need you to improve overnight with your environment, and we're gonna get you there. And congratulations, you have a game plan. Finally, you feel like you have something that you can aim at, and that's your goal, and that's your motivation to get out of bed that one day and say, I'm gonna walk from here to the kitchen, or I'm and then tomorrow I might go from the here to the backyard, or I'm gonna go on a mile walk, and or so forth and so on. It's like it doesn't matter where you're at in your actual abilities, it's that you have a goal. And what you will learn is it's not a usually in my experience, Mark, it's not a one plus one equals two. It has synergistic effects. When you take that extra step, not only did you take that extra step, that's the one plus one equals two, but you start to realize, oh my gosh, like I'm actually feeling better than I intended, or it helped me with my confidence. And I'm still careful. I'm not gonna walk in a moldy basement, but I'm still able to go, oh my gosh, I didn't realize how much I imprison myself with the fear of the health decreasing or the exposure occurring.

Dr. Mark Su 43:55

Yeah. And I think so, extending off of that topic about okay, if you're practitioners, then then. our our our encouragement and advocacy for for our colleagues. If you're a patient and you it it might be worth taking a step back and just scanning and assessing not just how the obvious about where we might be gaslighting ourselves or flaming ourselves and hyping ourselves up, but also if you're if you're working with a practitioner, a human practitioner or an environmental practitioner who's might be gaslighting you like it's worth being aware of that. Right. And then and then how you safeguard yourself from that or take steps to to regulate or minimize that, that's another story. But just being aware is a big a big piece of the puzzle. And then perhaps third and lastly, you know, for for any of us as just patients, clients, whatever, who's specifically in the context of mold related illness, but also even just non-related to, not unrelated to mold illness for whatever we might be going through. Yeah, I think I heard you distilling it down kind of like saying, yeah, some of it is again, even if it's not not so much a practitioner but just our friends or family, whoever we might be sort of confiding in and seeking support from, being aware, are do they help us regulate or do they tend to kind of exacerbate and and gaslight, you know, even unintentionally, even with good intentions trying to help us, but it's actually not helping us. But furthermore, as far as a self-help is uh or helping each other, you kind of talked about breaking it down into just all right, let's dissect this out. Like what am I actually thinking that might be be be warranting reframing? What kind of thing, what kind of presumptions am I making? What kind of catastrophizing am I you know thoughts that my am I am I having, which happens pretty easily and quickly in our own minds. I think we could probably agree to that. And the more we're in that sort of fight or flight mode, the just the more often and more intense that often becomes. Also synergistic when in the negative. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So just slowing it down and and uh breaking it down, you know, this we're not therapists obviously, but um I I suspect that a therapist could agree could agree with some of this about like, yeah, just slowing the thoughts down and just starting with like being present, what do we know and what is it we're assuming beyond the what we know. And just re-reframing, reframing is a big common compensating technique, a copying technique, whether for self or um I know therapists often are working around that with uh with their

Helping A Partner Without Disbelief

Dr. Mark Su 46:12

clients.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

So Mark, if I could say one thing on that too, I just felt led because you had said something here to the husband or the wife, to the partner, uh whoever you may be who is with a person who is dealing with something, um, I'll I'll say this ask them what would be helpful. Know that and when you ask them, you might get a response. And when you get a response, it might be just the thing that you needed to hear in all sense of that word, need, but also it could be a little have a little bit of a teeth on it, meaning they are scared, they are afraid. And so it's going to not necessarily be as clean as you want it to be like can you calmly explain why you're overwhelmed and anxious and always worried about things. You don't always get the cleanest response. But but but showing up and asking them how they can communicate with you is the very same thing that helped me with my wife is that I assume things and I realized that as smart as I thought I was, I was humbled. I realized that I was off in some key areas of communication or assumptions really was where I went is I made assumptions. And I'll also just add as it relates to your partner, showing up with them and communicating with them is key. And also do yourself a favor if you're the partner, you're the caregiver is understand the concept of if somebody tells you 10 things, the person that's going through the health issue, and maybe they come across like eight of those 10 things are really like overwhelming and extreme, that they might be telling you two things that are absolutely solid like one of those two things would be like, I feel like I'm actually having a mold exposure in our basement. Don't discredit them on the two things because they said eight things that you felt were just more of an emotional response. And this is the part where we could have like a, you know, somebody who does this for a living use all the nomenclature, the wording that we need here, Mark, but is that happens a lot bring that up Mark because 30%, 40% of the clients I work with and I'm in the thousands, have their partner with them. And it it's classic issue where after you listen to them, you realize that the partner that's might be the person that you would say would step up to be the caregiver has discredited the person who's going through their journey because they said 10 things and it doesn't matter be 10 things, five things, 50 things, you get the point. And most of them were an emotional reaction. They were scared but they said two things and everything you've just discredited all of them, all of the points they made when what they what you should have done is backed up and realized now is that easy to do Mark I'm guessing you might say no, that can be very challenging when you're a partner with somebody who's overwhelming and all I have to do is ask my wife, how was it when I was going through these things where I was worried when I told you in Pine Top when I got my neuroquant back that according to the thing that I looked up on the result that I have five years left to live. Like how was that for you? How was that experience for you? And I just hope that that hits for certain audience members that our patients are going through that is if you have a a partner right now that you think needs to hear this, you can go ahead and give them this bit of the of the podcast because it happens quite a bit and it ruin it makes it challenging to you could have saved a lot of time, money and energy if you just would have been able to deal with things differently.

Dr. Mark Su 49:31

Yeah. Uh we've we've covered a lot uh a lot of different fragments and I yeah frankly didn't wasn't uh clear in my own mind as to you know where this might go because I I knew there were several potential extensions, you know, it was just stemming off of your wife's posts and just um and then starting out with just your own experience and story and uh just our care for ourselves as individuals between you and I but focusing on you. But um hey look I I appreciated your uh as always your uh transparency and vulnerability and uh you know it's awesome that we can jump on a Spurs notice and just kind of get into something like this uh especially being a little more personal not just sort of like professional, you know, academic or educational and skill set related um you know that we can can we do that we have a a strong enough relationship that we can just jump into that and and um be of some kind of service to others. So appreciate you as always.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Same here brother always love these types of conversations. I think that uh there needs to be more of them so those who are in this in the spot that I I was in and others know that they're not alone in a real, real

Purpose Faith And Community

SPEAKER_00 50:36

way.

Dr. Mark Su 50:36

So yeah and I and there was one piece I we won't just for time's sake we won't go further into but um yeah I love the part the the the one piece you threw out about uh you know purpose some having a purpose right a goal it could be a goal but more even deeper more substantively to me would be a a purpose right for you you talked about your wife and kids and but you know you did allude to we both uh you know we have a similar fabric of uh of faith and and uh relationship with a higher power and God whoever you know how different people different strokes different folks but that has a lot of meaning and I've and I've also found that to be you know whether it's family members, friends, but there are people who don't have a lot of support community unfortunately, right? Or they're they've become s they're scant or they've become scant in often secondarily because of their illness and and variety of topics that have evolved, you know, some of it being limbic and mind emotional mental emotional stuff and some of it not but um you know that a lot of people we both know we've run across a lot of patients like that too and but uh yeah if um if there's uh if it if it if it if the shoe fits for for anybody who um is in that boat or has uh it's it's on the radar to explore uh faith and spirituality that's uh that is that is that's another piece that I listen for with with patients and highly encourage because that's that is a whole nother level that we that can transcend what we can do for each other on a humanistic level certainly. But uh yeah there's a time and place for everything, right? And ultimately that the the topic about purpose really just really struck me because yeah I I've I can think of patients right now who in just in the last couple weeks are just feeling like it's not just being alone it's I'm not sure what I'm living for. Right. And not that they're suicidal but just there isn't a drive. And so that's that's a tough spot. But again, not to prolong this but as a yeah as practitioners and you know whether of of environment or people bringing that piece to the table and just creating some space available to to speak to that and encourage that of people can that can be completely can be terribly invaluable.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Yes, agreed. And and then they could be the littlest things where it's not a it's not a judgment whatsoever. Wherever you're at be is you know it's all you're beautiful. And at the end of the day, even if it's the purpose I love that word I said goals and is little it can be the littlest of things and and and don't feel ashamed that in your journey that you might need to take care of yourself. It's not selfish and I really struggle with that. I'm like look at me just taking care of all me and my kids are going to grow up and they're gonna be have all these issues. Like I my mind just went south that you do have a purpose and you you are good. And if you're in a bad spot recognize that you you do know you're in a challenging spot whether it's a friend, whether it's a voice just know that you're loved and you have purpose and we got to get ourselves and educate people more about what's out there, what's available so I'm sure we'll have another podcast mark where we can maybe talk about those sorts of things that people can do at least through through my lens and your lens.

Where To Get Help Next

Dr. Mark Su 53:27

All right man keep on keep on keeping on you're doing you're doing you're doing good work thanks for the uh the surprise question that was uh that was a can of worms that's good we got it thanks for sharing so much appreciation appreciate it much uh yeah so if you uh as without forget not wanting to forget uh if you are have never worked with functional practitioner never or environmental practitioner there's uh questions suspicions about uh whether it's mold related illness topics or uh just chronic inflammatory symptoms and conditions that have you know just are eluding elusive to you and your care team to date you can reach us at rootseekhealth.com.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Mike's got his podcast also at IEP radio um environmentalanalytics.net right that's correct sir is your website environmentalanalytics.net is the company what I do IEP radio.com is the podcast.

Dr. Mark Su 54:20

Yeah yeah and uh or or if just needing uh second opinion some consultation some uh yeah a second glance we're whether uh in whichever capacity environmentally uh human clinical but we just honored and privileged to be a part of your journey uh as the shoe may fit so you know where to find us we'll do this again Mike on the next time around and uh thanks for thanks for hopping on again absolutely brother we'll see you in the next one all right just the way you like