Ep.3 S-3: "This One's for the Dad's w/ John Flagg"

In episode 3 of the 3rd season, Travis and Carl invite good friend, coach, and author, John Flagg to talk about Dad things, coaching, The Cave, and missing each other in general.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Our other two main contributors for this season episodes and now for the show. And all the things that have torn me apart, nothing has made me more whole, covering the good, the bad, and the shit that keeps us going. Straight from the head refs table. I'm your host, Travis Papa Bear Rogers, and you are listening to a Forest Through the Trees, a Cave podcast. Here with the freshly, I'm surprised you're not burnt. Back from Florida, Carla Master. Are you burnt?

SPEAKER_03 0:28

You can't see my nice pink red hue. It's I I expected worse, honestly. Dude, I can see through the camera. I used a like can and a half of sunscreen in four days. No doubt.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

You gotta get like the uh the rhino skin kind for people who are heavily tattooed, and it's just because you're like extra pale.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

I was so on top of it because I knew it'd be bad. I've never been that close to the Earth's equator.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

I thought you were gonna say I'd never been so close to the sun. Well, yes. I was like, it's a Florida, not a rocket ship, dude.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

So I was like, I just gotta be on this. I had an extra one just for myself, and I was like, every like three hours. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

Um, so we do have a special guest with us today for episode three of season three, none other than our sponsor, good friend, good coach, good lifter, the main homie, John Flagg. John, please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

First off, I'm honored. Uh, I remember when Travis first started doing this thing, and I was like, Were you gonna have guests on? And he's like, No. I got a little sad at first. I was like, oh, come on, man, I love podcasting. Um, but for those who don't know me, my name is John Flagg. I am a power lifter. I own Rebuild Stronger. We coach most powerlifters. The bread and butter for us is injured powerlifters that need to get back to the platform and exceed where they were before. Uh, I'm an author, I've got a book called Foundational Strength. You can find them on Human Kinetics online. Um, and you know, I I'm lucky to call myself a friend of Travis's and Carl's and somebody I've been able to train with live at the cave itself. So happy to be here and ready to get into it.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Well, we are absolutely stoked to have you and we appreciate the kind words. But uh speaking of kind words and training in person, man, this is a question, of course, like I knew it was very close to you, obviously close to us. So I wanted to start off with a very like lovey dovey bro moment. Oh fuck, we didn't turn the lights off. It's okay. I think it'll be okay. You may go to the I can I can go to the wall.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

You can do it. Yeah, I can do it.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

You're gonna do a two fur? Don't knock the cord out of the wall, but yeah. Okay. I don't trust you. You're so big now, you might just knock all the cords out of the wall. You're a fucking walking refrigerator. Um sorry, I'm distracted by Carl. Just eat it. Love to watch it. I love to watch it, watch him walk away, man. Walking away. You know, you just you just appreciate it differently. He comes back after a week gone, and you're like, you know what? I built that shit. Look at that. Look at that. Even if he's a little pink, it's that, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Slightly burnt, but I still love him. Alright, so John, why does the cave hold such a special place for you? And not many can honestly say they have a full-fledged tattoo dedicated to it. I I was actually the first, wasn't I? Um, there okay, so you you are the first one with the actual knife cave logo. There are some other cave tattoos, but there is not a knife tattoo.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

So you I'm not I'm not on that calling firsties or anything at all. It's just like you are first for that one specifically, but like I man, you're gonna start with this question so that we can both sit here and cry live at the very beginning of the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

That's how I do it. That's his favorite part, actually. I I only do meets anymore to cry, actually.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

I was about to say, I mean, probably one of the biggest reasons because I've seen a grown man that looks like you cry on multiple occasions in that in that place. That's probably one of the big ones. Um but I I've I've read this question this morning and I was like, how am I gonna keep this short? Because it's it's hard to kind of condense into one thing because it all starts a long time ago before I even met you or before I even went went to the cave. And that's with Trey and Neil. Right, right. And you know, Trey shout out Trey and Neil.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

We haven't seen this guy's in a hot minute, and congrats, Trey and Sarah, on the baby.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yeah, huge, huge. Um, two very close friends of mine, and not even gonna shy away from this. We were like rivals at one point down here in southern Maryland, where I was coaching and Neil was coaching, and we had this like battle going back and forth. And then Neil and Trey and I all just kind of connected, and they would they would drive what three and a half, four hours on a pretty weekly basis just to come train there. And I remember seeing Travis the first couple times being like, Who is this psychopath that's going like RPE 14, and then being like, No, I'm gonna put more on. Trey coming home and being like, Bro, this guy's awesome, but he scares the shit out of me. He just scares the shit out of me. And I knew because it was special to them that there was something special there. That, you know, that the environment, they felt safe, they felt like it was somewhere they could train and find fellowship, but also get challenged. Um, that it meant a lot because I've coached both of them for an extended period of time, and to know they could go somewhere and feel safe and train hard meant a lot for me as a coach. You can't trust a lot of places like that for your athletes to go to and not get run over or intimidated or talked down on or judged or whatever. It was just, it was always a great thing. Then I actually met Travis and Jess very specifically at a meet that I was handling Neil at. Uh, you were running the meet. That was at uh Grit down in um Rehoboth, Bethany Beach area. Remember that meet? Uh was where was that?

SPEAKER_04 5:52

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Grit and grizzled.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

No, it wasn't grit. Was it if it was in Rehoboth, wasn't it the uh Delaware State Champs? No, that was Dover. Fuck, we've done so many. This was before it was somewhere grit. Yeah, yeah. It's if it's grit, it was in that old CrossFit box, closer to Millsboro, I think.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, that that that that tracks.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

That's okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'm I'm I met you there briefly, but I met Jess more, and then you know, we all just kind of got closer and closer and closer, and then the first time I went to the cave, because of all those relationships, it just felt like home. You know, like you just get folded in. I got to meet Carl, I got to meet Rob, I got to meet all these guys and girls that I had seen and talked to, whether it was online or whatever, and it all just kind of fit. Not to mention, every time I compete there, it's probably the only place where I feel consistently safe to compete, where I know standards are gonna be held, where I know the people that are spotting me actually give a shit. Um, not just for my own safety, but like to perform themselves, to do a good job, to change weights accurately, to do things the right way. Um it just it always it's just felt like a place where you could just be you and lift however you want to lift and have a shitload of fun doing it. Um then obviously I think the the big pieces is just Travis, I owe you so much just as a person. I don't think people understand when when you talk about giving back, whether it's you know, doing refing or running meets or something like that, like this guy gave me the keys to his gym for a weekend so that I could come in and do photos for my book. You didn't ask for anything either. You didn't you didn't say, Hey, yeah, let's do this, let's let's let's finable this. I gave you a call and I said, Hey man, I need some help figuring something out. You said, How can I do well like what can we do? I was like, Well, maybe we can do this, maybe that. Just take the gym. This is what I need from you, but just take the gym. Gave me the keys, gave me the whole weekend, then we trained our ass off after that. My wife still talks about that day. She's like, I couldn't get you out of the gym. You're not gonna get me out of the gym with those of you. Y'all might as well just leave me. I'll stay here all night long. Whether we're lifting or not, I'm gonna sit here and talk shit for the rest of the time. And you know, that just that just locked in the whole thing. Because at any point in time, I can roll up in that place and know that I got family there and know that I got people that can take care of me. My daughter's competed there. That's literally the one one of the only reasons she continues to lift because she's 12 now and she she's acting like she's 25, is so that she can go to the cave. And that she can be big enough one day to get in that singlet that we bought the first time she was in there that was way too big for her.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

She's still got a water bottle with every single bear cave sticker that's ever been touched, and she's got a couple that she needs to get new ones from you for Travis the next time she sees you.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

I will fill a Ziploc bag with her name on it, man.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Yeah, and just ship it over. But like, even my youngest, what is she? She's seven. As soon as she can compete, what does she want to do? She wants to go to the cave and she wants to lift. Shit, man. My mom was there last time. And my mom, God bless her, right? I'm I'm sure she saw Travis and was like, who the fuck is this guy? And she walked away. She's like, Man, that was she's been to a lot of powerlifting meetings. She's like, that was that was one of the nicest ones. Because it's everything's squared away. Yes, it's loud with heavy metal music, but everybody's just so friendly. Like, it's just a special place, dude. It's a special place.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Well, damn, dude. I guess you are right. I didn't I didn't know we were gonna start that deep on the podcast, but dude, uh not not much I can say and follow up after that. But I mean, I really do. I don't know if Jess was here too, she would say the same thing, but man, we really appreciate the kind words and you know, all the things we've talked about of trying to build and create that special place for people in the community and what we think powerlifting and what we always felt powerlifting should be, and the best way to replicate that inside a gym was the cave. And like by you acknowledging, you know, most of those things without you know me even saying anything and just sitting here and being able to listen to you tell your side of the story and you talk, uh it lets me know that even though this shit sucks a lot of the time and I hate owning a gym and the politics and all the bullshit, it lets me know that like deep down, like I'm still making the right moves and I'm still moving in this in the direction that it always should have moved. So I really appreciate that, man.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

I think the lifeblood of a gym is at the heart, and there's gonna be a ton of things that are gonna try to come in and rot that, like you talked about with politics and people, and you know, it's a it's a shitty industry, it really is. But when you find the real ones, man, you gotta hold on. You gotta hold on, and if you're one of the real ones, you gotta hold fast.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

No, no truer words have been spoken there. I can fucking say that for sure. Alright, well, fuck it. Podcast over. That was a good one. That's everybody go home. He's gotta hydrate now after all the tears. God damn, because all right, well, fuck me. Um you're the one that wrote the question.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

As soon as I read it, I was like, he's really gonna ask me that one.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Yeah, this one's probably not gonna be any better. Um, so speaking of your kids competing at the gym, something I've always obviously, you know, I was a coach at the high school for a long time. Me and Pauline took kids out to RPS and USPA meets with hand-me-down singlets and gear, and you name it, we paid for it, we footed the bills. So, teaching kids to lift and embrace that side of themselves and have an outlet with an adult and be safe and like do it in a way that makes them, you know, not only learn to set goals as a young person, but establish those kind of guidelines for when they get older, right? How do you think having a kid influences your lifting? And then how do you think, how do you think that shapes her view of the sport?

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Oh man, that's an awesome question.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

You know, because she's not seeing it from just like the sports angle, she's seeing it from like my dad as the sport angle.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Well, so thankfully I've got a this age gap between both of my girls, and I'm I'm watching Max kind of see it in real time, and she's she's a different personality, so there's a different perspective. And then you have Jolene, who's a little bit older, that's been doing this since she's been eight, on and off, right? But it's still something that she like has has now gotten more into back again. And the perspective is super interesting because I'm gonna start with like what it's like as a dad. Um, there's definitely no doubt that it's really pride-inducing is probably the best way to put it. When these kids are like, dude, my dad is way stronger than you.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

My dad could beat the brakes off of your dad. You just wait. Dad's over there just warming up the biggest.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah, like you just just just hang out for a second, you'll see something crazy. You know what I mean? Yeah, because that that gym that we're currently lifting out of, like, there's a cheer gym attached to it, and there's other athletes there, and there's other parents there. And oh shit. Yeah. When you're when you're like working up to a 225 or 315 bench, it's one thing, but you know, when I'm just the other day with you know Anthony's program, and I'm I'm a 585 on bench, I'm I'm working up to the end of the nines on squat, and it's like people have never seen shit like that. And for my daughters, it's just another Tuesday. You know, like this is just it's normal. Like that extreme is like, okay, like that's just what it looks like. And if it's taught me anything, it's it's that my daughters don't have this like false sense of limitation. Like they're they're gonna attack stuff. If they're passionate about it, they're gonna go after it. Um and they're gonna they're gonna go after it not thinking that there's some like weird arbitrary thing. Because I've told them the story that I'm not, like, I'm not a well talented athlete. I've just worked for it. I'm 42. I've just been alive and doing it for longer than everybody else. That's I've just survived.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

Hey man, uh I was reading something super recently, man. Like, more than half the game is can you outwit and outlast everybody else? Yeah. Them boys crack and break within the first three, and here we are in our you know, decades already in.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

So well, that's the whole that's the whole thing right now with uh do you choose the ball or the sword? Like how how often do you choose the sword over time? Um, and that's it, it really stacks up. But for my girls, I think that's been the biggest thing that I've seen it influence them is there's there's no there's no limitations. They they've normalized some of the crazy stuff. Uh and then when it comes to like does it change my training? I don't know. No, I don't think it does. Um it's we we all laugh in the house, like where's dad most likely gonna just like die early and it's probably underneath the squat?

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Okay, you know, it's like and not to interrupt you, but as we're joking about that, I think that's more of how I wanted to dictate that question is like, is there any times where you're warming up to something like that that you know is very life-threatening, and you're like, fuck man, like I need to chill, or I need to I need to be there around for my people, my kids. I get that feeling, and I don't have kids, I get that feeling for like Jess and people at the cave, and I'm like, bro, I need to slow my fucking roll so I'm still here when they need me, right? Do you get that as a as a father? Jolene runs my mono. Oh fuck, so it's right in front of her.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

So we were uh this is like three weeks ago. I did a squat session. I had to work up to no, it was longer than that. I had to work up to a heavy box squat double. Um, and I took a pretty aggressive take, and the first rep was like hard, and she's so not used to seeing like how much I struggle in the first rep, and she didn't know how many reps it was gonna be, so she just locked it in. And I was like, nah, take it back out, take it back out, one more. I got one more, and she she just does the thing, but like for me, I I I really want I how do I want to say this? I've been in healthcare for so long, and I've been a clinician for so long that I think it's really unfair to teach people that they can't take risks without actually having risks come and bite their ass. It would be a great lesson. And this this is like invoking danger upon myself, but it's true. Like, I want my kids to see me push extremes, and if something happens, they understand that that shit's just gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Yeah, I mean, and I always replay shit in my head too, and it's like, you know, you play the woulda, coulda, shoulda. Like, if I had done this differently, if I had drank another half a cup of water, could have avoided this, if I took a jump in between, it's like you replay so many different things in your head, but like inherently it's exactly like you're saying like risk is risk, and it's not, you know, if you get hurt, it's when you get hurt and how you deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

It's gonna happen. And you you're the girlfriend's gonna break up with you, the boyfriend's gonna break up with you, you're gonna lose the job, you're gonna lose the car, you're gonna get pulled over, you're like all those things are gonna happen, you know. Unless you live some sort of stoic, I'm not gonna do anything in my life, and that that just sounds really mediocre to me. Like, why not show people risk? And like this is one of the things I was literally talking to Anthony this morning, and you know, he's he's been known to say, like, don't when when he got hurt at WPOs, this is this is what he said to me, when he got hurt at WPOs, he's walking away, they haven't even cut the suit off of him. And he's like, I would still take that weight a hundred times out of a hundred, knowing what's gonna happen to me. That's that's my mentality when it comes to what I want my kids to be able to see and understand. Because otherwise, like, how do you make informed decisions in life?

SPEAKER_04 18:14

You're not you're not bulletproof, but your fucking will is.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah. So you might as well put the effort into it, and if something happens, what do you do? You s you get back up, you keep working at it, you figure out what the next path is, and you you move on from there. Because otherwise, if people don't see that risk is real, then when it actually hits them, they just fold. I don't want that for my kids.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Love that, dude. Very well spoken, dude. I love hearing you talk. You're so.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

I say this is this is the this is the quietest I've heard Carl on the podcast. When when when Flag speaks, Carl's like.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Dude, I just love hearing him talk. He's he's very knowledgeable and it just it comes off super well.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Let's be fair, he's a little sunburned too, though. So like he's probably he's slightly cooked, he's probably quiet a little bit now. You know, he's got a he's got a mild fever from the sun.

SPEAKER_04 19:08

I'm fresh out of aloe right now. Did you drink any while you were there? You know they make the aloe drinks. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Did you have any? No, no, no. I just like no, not just bathed.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

You just bathed in it. You didn't drink it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

I didn't think it was aloe, it was lemon cellos, wasn't it? Isn't that the formula?

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Well, that was on Saturday before my deadlifts, yes. Did you actually have pasta while you were gone? No, I didn't. No, you didn't. What did I have a lot? No. No, I had a lot of tacos like Mahi and stuff like that. Okay, okay. I mean, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_04 19:38

Alright, so, dude, uh absolutely knocking it out of the park with these questions. And I'm I'm the same. Like, I I enjoy our banter and I love talking back and forth with you, but I feel like you're also one of those people I truly enjoy listening to, and I definitely hold your words to a very high esteem. So when when you speak, I listen. And there's not many people I would say I I take their words with a grain of salt, but you are not one of them. I usually take them very close to heart.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

So I I appreciate that. I that I that's a lot of honor and gratitude towards you, man. I appreciate that a lot.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

So uh since you've uh basically done it all, and we're talking about this, um, you know, just because of your time in the sport, our time together in the sport, how we've grown, how the cave's grown, all this stuff, and watching people, you know, you talked about you and Neil kind of facing off coaching-wise, and of course, you got a new coach this year because your old coach decided to retire. Um, you know, I think revolving around that sort of thematic idea, when do you personally, right? So out as a coach now, with your standing and your your roster, man, and your experience, looking outward, when do you think it is an appropriate time for someone who wants to pursue coaching to antsy up and actually start coaching? Right? Like to say they want to pursue that as an avenue of income or possible like profession?

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Man, I love this question because there's there's so many layers to it, right? Like, I I can be super critical of that kid that does their first meet on open powerlifting and then says, DM me for coaching. You know, like you see that, it's rampant. It's not just in powerlifting either, guys. It's literally everything.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

We have a mic, we have a lens on our specific niche sport, and so we look at it harder. But yeah, like you said, like when we it's the same thing as when we talk about powerlifting feds and all the bullshit and stuff, people are hiding in skeletons in the class. Dude, that's every fucking sport. Yeah, we just talk about powerlifting because we're balls deep in powerlifting.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah, because that that's our that's our interest, right? That's our own niche. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Um, balls deep intended with powerlifting, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

True. But like when it comes to when you're qualified, I think it there has to be a couple things, and and I'm gonna build off if you don't know what the elite FTS rules are or Dave Tate. Rules are you can look them up.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

How'd I know you were gonna go here? I knew you were gonna go here, and that's okay. That's okay. I just I had figured you followed those pretty closely, so yeah, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I I follow them really closely, but there's there's a couple ones that like there's always a little contention on, right? Like your formal education and like who you've made. Because I've seen a lot of like really good athletes become really shitty coaches, right? Like we we all know those individuals, and we've seen people who weren't necessarily the best athlete end up actually being really phenomenal coaches. That's because you don't have to fit all five. But I do want to give some grace to people who need to develop the experience by volunteering or or helping create some people, uh, and also gaining the experience by actually coaching in the trenches. With that said, I think there's one key element that a lot of people miss out on, and that's the the true desire to do that from a learning and service perspective. You're not doing it to make a buck. We've all seen those people, right? Oh, there's opportunity here.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

You mean you don't do you don't staff powerlifting meets and make a lot of money?

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Uh I think that's my favorite one, dude. Because all the people that are like, let's do powerlifting meets, there's there's gonna be so much money in it. And I'm like, how much did you make your first three? Oh, we're we're in the negative by a lot, we're not gonna do it anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Those four combo racks, you and everybody else, right out the gate.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Those are pretty gnarly right out the gate on the on the price. I don't understand capital expense businesses. That's that's that's all that's all that's all I heard.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Um but I I do want to give grace to kids who are they they really do fall in love with the sport. They they go all in on certain things, they start to get their ref certifications, they go and start to get the education around it, they start helping people out at the gym, maybe they start training, you know, or or coaching some of the people close to them, some of the create their own little training crew, um, and they develop that sort of experience through work. You know, that's it's like it's it's a trade. That that's what coaching is. Coaching is a trait, it's a there's a craft aspect to it, there's an artwork to it. So you you have to get reps doing it. So I don't think it's necessary for everybody to come out and have a master's degree in kinesiology to be a good coach and like have multiple-time national champions in their roster, but I do think we we should have the correct intent and alignment on what you're intending to do as a coach, and then get your reps in. And then also understand like don't charge 50 bucks. Don't charge a thousand dollars a month. Find something that's actually reasonable that fits the market so that you don't get accused of just destroying everybody else's coaching business or essentially overvaluing programming on an Excel sheet. That's where I'll stop.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Uh I I really like the Expel the Excel spreadsheet. So, like, for example, I I mean, and I we don't obviously uh that's none of my business, and we would not talk about numbers directly out loud, but I know you do charge more than me. I know you have more knowledge than me, I know you dedicate more time to it than me. So I also think there is a a nuance of it, like understanding it and being upfront and honest, obviously, before taking on a client. It's understanding like what all your coaching entails and how much time you have dedicated to it. For example, I'm a full-time teacher, I own the gym, like I got a lot of fucking shit going on. So, like my price reflects that because you don't have 24 hour, you know, you don't have 24-7 access to me. Like, I don't have that time, so I'm not gonna make you pay for that, like I like I do have that time. And I think that's fair. And I think as a coach, like you need to evaluate some of those circumstances as well, right? Like, I mean, obviously, like I've seen some coaches, you know, have really good programming, and then their feedback is like, you know, commenting on a a lifter's Instagram post and being like, boom, pow. Hell yeah, brother. Like, that's that's emotional. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that's not fucking, that's not coaching, man. That's like you writing a program and they're following it and doing okay. Like, I mean, that's not that's not coaching, though. So, I mean, because there was a long time in in my coaching where I wasn't coaching and I didn't charge for coaching, I said, I will program you, and that is it. Because I hated dealing with people. Because I, for a long time as a coach and still struggle with this today, is I lack empathy. Like, if you don't work to control your own variables, like those are things I can't fix. Like, if you say, Hey, this session went to shit because I stayed up all night and I didn't drink any water today, like, I don't give a fuck. Because those are variables you can control, and no matter no amount of hand holding, hey, did you drink your water today? Like, I can't, I just like I can't make you do that, I can't make you fucking show up to the gym. Right? So, like, there is a part of me with coaching where like I try to distance myself in that aspect because even me, and you know this as you know, you and me have become closer friends as a person in my personality traits. Like, I am not a fucking hand holder. Like, I am not a coddler, I I am not sweet. No, not by any means.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

No, hey, but that being said, it works for Carl. I would say it works for most people. Yeah. You know, you just gotta hash it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

I think that actually becomes a bigger business question because like you're gonna attract those kinds of people that respond to that.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

You know, like I as much as you know, I I had a a small list of coaches that I was gonna go with, and I went with Anthony because I knew he wasn't just gonna be easy on me. And I knew he was gonna be really detailed with the very specific skills that I needed to learn, you know. But that's that's why I went that route. I didn't want hand holding or a bunch of empathy. No, other people need that, so they find a coach that fits that role, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Um and me and Carl have talked about that. Like, some people need to find a coach, like their number one thing for a coach is like accountability, right? They want a coach that's gonna bother the shit out of them. They want a coach that says, Hey, did you drink your water? Did you do this? Did you do that? Right? Like, it's them, it's more of a person that's checking you in to show up every day. And that's dependent, like you said, that's a bigger business question because it's completely dependent on the lifter.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

Well, would you say it's more important for the coach or the lifter to determine, like as the lifter determining what they need and finding a coach for that, or as the coach giving the athlete what they need and what kind of responses they need to their type of programming?

SPEAKER_04 29:02

I think it's the res that's a good question. I think it's a responsibility of the athlete to know what they're looking for in a coach, and a coach, when approached, to be upfront about what exactly they're gonna offer, right? Because like I don't think any either party should like, especially like you as a lifter, if you want something personally as a from a coach, like I don't think you should have to jeopardize too much in order to have them be your coach.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Yeah, I agree, I agree. Like you you shouldn't go into a uh hiring a coach and expecting them to change what they do because you found them for a reason.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Right, right. You know what they do. You wouldn't expect them to change everything about them for you as you're the lifter, you get the special treatment.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

So I'll I'll I'll keep keep this to pretty quick one. I I coach a lot of coaches and they'll ask me, like, so when I'm market, should I cuss? I'm like, well, do you cuss in real life? Like, how how do you communicate? And they're like, Yeah, I cuss like a sailor. I said, Well, you better cuss then. Because you don't want to all of a sudden get comfortable with somebody and two months later they're like, Well, I didn't realize you were such a potty mouth. I don't, I don't, you're not the person I thought you were. No. Like, you have to hold boundaries as a coach, too, so that the athletes can make informed decisions on who they're selecting. Because if you're not, if you're suddenly putting yourself out there as something completely different, and then they they buy the offer, they buy the product, which as a coach, you're the product, right? Like that's what you are. You are your business. Yeah, and all of a sudden, like you're not you're not what you advertised, like that, that's that's your responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

So I I think it's both ways, Carl. I think I don't think people should bend to provide something that's outside of what they want to provide or how they want to provide it, or how they want to coach, or how they want to act and communicate. And then athletes should take that information and make an informed decision on what's going to be best for them.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Right. Okay, cool. That makes sense. No, I I agree with that. And I like you said, it is a double-edged sword. I think it goes both ways for sure. I had one more question about something you mentioned earlier with price points on coaching. You said you don't want to undercut, you don't want to come into it being undercutting everybody as like a$50 a month coaching fee, but also you don't want to be a thousand dollars and way overselling yourself for just a spreadsheet. How do you know when you can charge, like, as a as a brand new coach going into the market, how do you know, like, oh, I I have like the knowledge base and I have the ability to charge, you know, two to three, four hundred dollars and not like fifty, even though you're brand new and you don't have any clients coming in already?

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Oh man, that's the beauty of the internet currently. That's why I love the internet because you can look around at the other coaches in the same room as you when you coach people at competitions, you can go look up their price point.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Oh, that's a fair point. Yeah.

unknown 31:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

That's I mean, that's my price point.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

That's the easiest way to do it, yeah. As my prices have changed, what did I go look at? I went and I looked around the room and I saw Jeremy Hartman, good friend, great mentor, awesome coach. I look around, I see Mike Tachier. I look around, I see Matt and Susie Gary, because like a lot of the rooms that I was coaching in were the Arnold at USCPL and stuff like that. I'm seeing these same faces every single time. I'm talking to them over lunch, I'm talking to them over conversations. You can easily look up their price points and find out how much they coach and say, well, I'm in the same room as those people on a regular basis, not just this year, but like I remember last year at the Arnold, Jeremy and I looked at each other and we're like, Do you recognize any of these people? Like, look around. Do you remember, like, okay, there's that person, that person, that person, but who, and and you go back the next year and they're gone. You don't see that person again. So I think that's the blessing of how the powerlifting community operates is you can actually look and at market research pretty easily and just look at who's in the room with you.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

I think it's funny you mention that too, because you know, you talk about coaches like who fall flat, like weeding themselves out, and you're giving that prime example of like you go to the same meet the next year, and like you're like, who who are these new people? Because all the old ones have started to filter out already.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Well, and just a just a story on the other side, too, right? When I talk about like undervaluing. Um, this is the story that I hear really often for, and I actually had an athlete who did this, she is awesome, and she's grown a lot as a coach, she's still doing the coaching thing, but when she started out, she started out at like 45 or 50 bucks a month, and like 75 people signed up immediately because she was a pretty prominent athlete. She was she was good, she was strong, she was competing at national, she was doing that sort of thing. She burnt out so fast. It was like I'm so overwhelmed, and I'm I'm I'm sending messages every day and doing programming updates every day. Like her service level was super high, and she's charging 50 bucks a month and not even being able to really pay her bills. Like, you can't operate like that. So you you gotta figure out where that actually starts to land.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Now, does that just end more so in like business knowledge and having like I'm not a business major in any means, but like and I don't have like the the the skill base behind that, but like it's not so much like athlete going into coach anymore, it's like you have to know how to manage all like the ins and outs of you know you're you're competing with other people in and other coaches, so it's it's a it's a gray area for me. That's all I'm I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Especially if you want to make it your full-time thing, yeah. 100%. You know, this is you have to start to learn some of those skill sets, and there's plenty of outlets out there that can help you with that sort of thing, or other coaches that are willing to mentor and not do these bullshit like 10K programs like some of these idiots out there right now that are doing. Um but it's one of those things, if you're gonna make it your full-time thing, like Travis was saying, he's a full-time teacher, and that's actually one of the one of the big reasons uh him and I hit it off so fast when I found out he was a teacher at my old high school.

unknown 35:01

I was like, no shit.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

You're what? You're you're at Seaford High? And that was like serendipitous. But like for me, when I look at that, I made the decision pre-COVID, you know, 2018, 2017 that I wanted this to be my full-time thing, and that that changes the math.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Was that a leap? Was that like a I have to quit what I'm doing now to make this my full-time thing, or did you already have a base going into it?

SPEAKER_02 35:28

I had a base, uh, but I didn't have a base that I was like it it was definitely a lot of discussions between me and the wife.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Of like, what's what's the what's the actual threshold? Like how many people on the roster and how much a month until we're like okay, you know, where we can pay bills, and then we have to very quickly get back to where you know you were because I I worked in a PT clinic. I I was getting paid well. I it's not it's not something where I wasn't wasn't getting paid well. I was getting paid real well. I was the right-hand man of the clinic owner. So it like I knew I needed to hustle.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

So speaking of hustling, and I like I like the direction this conversation is moving. Um, what have been some of your hardships, moving spots, and opening up your new space, and how has it changed or influenced your team, or how possibly you coach?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Um take it one piece at a time.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

So I I think the one thing that's nice, and and this is mainly because I'm just such a crazy person. Uh, I I don't know how many people actually had a monolift in their garage gym in the country, but I'm one of those guys. You know, it's with uh with some poking and prodding from Travis, I bought the American Open um monolift of one of three or however many it was. That thing is sick.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

You bought the the star spangled one and I bought the weigh-in one. That's the Invictus one, isn't it? Yeah, our red one out here is the weigh-in one, and he bought the platform one.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah, because I I I asked him about the Invictus uh equipment line, and he told me all about Dave, and then Dave came and talked to me for an hour and a half when he dropped the thing off. He he he's a great guy.

SPEAKER_04 37:13

Yeah, Dave's great.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

He's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 37:15

But he is the owner of Invictus Powerlifting Manufacturers Benches and Monolifts, and is also the VP of the SBF Federation, which on a really close side note.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

They just had a meet. Did you see Travis McKenney's total from that meet? It was fucking dumb. Yeah, it was fucking dumb. It was really dumb. The top 10 all time in single plot? Yeah, yeah. Oh man, that's true. That's nuts, dude. Okay, that's nuts. Sorry, I had to bring that up. I just saw it.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

But the fortunate thing for me is is that I didn't have to buy any equipment. You know, like I pretty much had everything because the the garage gym that I had outfitted when I still lived in Maryland was something that I would bring plenty of people to train over to because we had done that during lockdowns to give people kind of an outlet. So I I already had three or four power racks, I already had a monolith. Um, I ended up buying another competition bench from Dave from Invictus, so we've got one of those in there now. Um, but the biggest challenge for us for the move was actually figuring out how we were gonna fit in town because where I live is a real small town. It was a really, really, really small town. Um, it is a really small town. I think it's under 8,000 people live here. So it's in rural North Carolina, you know, a space like that, we weren't really sure. Um, we got hooked up by the cheer gym owner because she was looking to rent out some space anyway, and we were able to kind of fit in there and make things work. Um, but the difficulties in the beginning was more just like, how are we gonna talk to people about this place? Because they've never seen anything like what we put together. Right. And I'm not saying that like it's technologically advanced.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

It's just like small towns don't have warehouse gyms like that, like a like a training center, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

No, they're used to like treadmills and you know, a couple TVs that may or may not work, and you know, some old out of out-of-date life fitness type of equipment. Um and we're coming in here with a full-blown, built-out strength gym. You know, we've got every variation of specialty bar you can come across. We've got competition level equipment, we've got all that stuff, um, and figuring out what that would look like. I would say the other challenge was I've already got two and a half, three other businesses. So I feel this. I remember my wife and I debating for like a year because she's like, I think it'd be a good thing to do for the for the community. And I was like, I, you know, I do too. I just don't want to show up at a gym at 5 a.m. You know, I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

So, and you guys have met the guy. So, shout out to my boy Wyatt, who's like a brother to me now. He worked for me for years, works for me still in Rebuild Stronger, and he was up in Bozeman, Montana, and he was like, if you do a gym, I'll move down there. I was like, You're gonna move from Bozeman to Oxford, North Carolina, the middle of nowhere. Like, there's he's he's in his late 20s. There's no girls here.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Like, there's no there's no nothing here.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I'm like, dude, are you sure? He's like, Yeah, I'll do it. Um so getting him to move down and getting him settled in and like getting him acclimated to the area and you know, going to sleep every night hoping the kid actually stays because we we took this bet on the whole thing, was like a little nerve-wracking in the beginning. But now, dude, he's all in. He's there right now. You know, he's he's working at the gym, he's absolutely loving it. He's got a busy schedule. Um, we're doing one-on-one stuff and we're doing small group stuff, and the community, we've had the sheriff's department in there to do SWAT training, we've had other community groups come in there to check the place out. Uh, we we've literally have people come in and be like, I've never seen a place like this before. What's it look like to join? Just because it's so different. Um, so I would say we've been really fortunate that it really has over the last few months really taken off. Uh and I'm super grateful for Wyatt. And, dude, we're gonna go all the way back to the first question. Also, having a model like the Bear Cave of how you want a place to feel and look and people experience it was also like it was really good because we thought about okay, somebody walks in the door, right? How do we want them to feel? How do we want the equipment set out? How do we want the the the area to look so that when people come in they know what this kind of place is? You know, we got our big suck dog flag up there, we got our big uh I gotta I gotta suck less flag up there. I got I got I'm I'm gonna try to fill the walls up just like the cave. Um, but you know, having having a couple places, very specifically the cave, but a couple other gyms that I've been to, of knowing like, hey, this is the vibe we want, was helpful too. Because when you when you know the what that looks like and you you can put your own stamp and style on it, it actually makes that transition easier because then you can be confident in talking to people about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Especially people who have no idea what it is. Because we did have a lot of people like, what is this? Come on in. Let's look, I'll show you.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, you almost have to like live, eat, and breathe what you're trying to make. So yeah, so you have the ability to explain it and show people that have no idea what it is, what it is and what you do with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

A lot of heart and soul goes into that.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

Man, now I want to like do a wraparound video of like the cave and be like, sometimes you forget, like, in the middle of all this shit, like what this place means to you. Yeah, you should. It's easy to forget sometimes. I thought about that a lot the other day.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Actually, it was one of the days you were going. It's easy to get lost in that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:14

You know? Yeah. You you start to uh I I don't think underappreciates the right word, but it's just like in the in the in the web of life and all this shit going on, it's like you forget what you've built and why this matters to so many more people than just you. And I think that's a hard thing to hold on to a lot of times, you know, when you're looking at outside influences, when you're looking at things going wrong inside the gym, when you're just like life is too heavy, it's like you forget that this is a reprieve from that. And if this place caught on fire and burned to the fucking ground, I'd probably be out here the next day trying to rebuild it back already. And you forget that. I don't want to forget that. So always good talks with you to remind me about the things that truly matter. John.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Yeah, man. Absolutely. And it's gone so many incremental changes that have all felt so intentional. You know what I mean? So I I have the blessing, right? I have the benefit of being able to drop in there every few months. And it's like, hey, we changed the warmup room around. And we did this so it flows like this. And we we did this over here so it changes how people move around here. That's literally how Wyatt and I like designed the gym. We're like, what what footstep are people gonna take? Where are they gonna go? Because it should be intentional like that. It should be. So you know, you guys have done it incrementally, and it's almost like somebody that's trying to lose weight, right? Like, I don't see that, I don't see it, I don't see it. Well, that's because it's been these small incremental changes over six months to a year to you know a year and a half that your body has changed, so you don't see you don't see how that change is because you're in it all the time. So sometimes you just gotta step back and get that perspective.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

If I can talk to you as an artist, you know, you like to do the art thing sometimes. Sometimes you're painting, dude. It's one brush stroke at a time.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

It is. Oh, Sensei Carl. It's why I keep him around, it's why I pay him the big bucks.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

So he can buy more stuff.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

That and I I enjoy him as my verbal punching bag.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

By big bucks, he just means pounds of my total, which I'm okay with. Yeah, yeah. I do agree.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah, let's talk about that squat really quick, Carl. He's doing that's not just going straight up, right? No, he's he's doing pretty good right now.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Doing pretty good. Hoping uh be uh put some uh numbers up in a few months.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

We're hoping this this is the meet. I think he's gonna out total me this meet.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Um I got numbers in my head that are substantially higher than what maybe he thinks.

SPEAKER_04 45:55

So yeah, I and I I I told him I sincerely hope he does, and it will forever be the most joyous day and the saddest day, because I will I will I will be proud to pass the torch. Um be a fun day. It will be. But but he's never gonna beat Dots Daddy, though. Just wait.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

I'll beat your dots and I'll do it at 242.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Oh. Whoa! Mark it down.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

Yeah, that's if you don't pass out when you're trying to wrap your fucking knees. Well, hopefully by that point, you can get it. Heavy breathing yogurt time. So you can try to beat my total and ask me to wrap your knees for you? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

What a douche. Yes, dude. Alright, this is gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

Too much pasta and jello shots. Um, alright, so I like talking about this subject because Carl can almost weigh in on it. Almost. Almost. Um is this gonna be? Raw and equips. Raw, raw is very limited for Carl right now. That's why I say almost weigh in. I said, so John, you've done it all like me. Like you're trying to, we've collected all the infinity stones. Have you done Unlimited yet?

SPEAKER_02 47:04

No, no, that's my next forehead.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

So is that the last one you're missing? Yeah, and I'll I'm gonna be there, don't worry. Oh yeah, and then we've we literally done it all, right? Every division. Yeah, Unlimited John will be fun.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Um every time Amber benches, I'm like, what is this, what is this shirt?

SPEAKER_04 47:20

I want one of those so bad. Um so you've done it all equipped in raw. Which one is like if you had to pick a certain division, you only pick one, what's your bread and butter? And then out of that division, right, whether it be multi, single, raw, dogging it, right? What are your favorite pieces of gear? And even if you say raw, like you can have a favorite type of belt or knee sleeve or what have you. You know, you can give the give the raw kids some cool, some cool tidbits too.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

It's not SPD everything all the time. It's not SPD everything all the time, but like we're gonna be unpopular, and I'm gonna say my favorite division is still single ply.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

Oh, man, after my heart. What is it? Is it just for you the same way it's for me? It's like all the fun pieces and technique of equipped, but you still get to use a lot of your raw strengths and like movement patterns?

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that's why it's for me. There's a little perspective here, and I'm glad you asked this question because recently Matt Wenning went on a podcast, I think it was actually his own podcast, and he talked about how Raw and Equipped, right? That equipped for him was like NASCAR. And Raw, now that he's older and you know he's he's done all the accomplished so much of the sport, he felt like Raw was like open-wheel F1 racing. Like you have to be way more technical and in this and that. And I just have to, and I I understand that's his perspective, and our careers are completely different, right? Like I started off raw, and now I'm going into single ply and multiply. He did incredible things in multiply and single ply, and now he's lifting raw. So his journey's been different than mine, but I think it's completely flipped. I started off with raw. I felt like I could build a base, use some real brute strength, learn some of the basics of the lift, and do it with substantially less risk, to be totally honest with you. Especially when I was younger. Now, single ply and eventually hear multiply, because I'm just way too ply curious uh about lifting like that. Um I find it the exact opposite. The equipment is actually keeping me in the game longer, allowing me to modify things as necessary, and then I'm gonna elaborate on that when it comes to my what's one of my favorite pieces of equipment. Um and then also still reach some of these crazy extremes. You know, still do some wild stuff, uh, and really, really have to dial in and focus on technique. The the technique aspect, man, it is worlds different in between raw and every any level of equipment. It's completely these kids that are like, oh my stiff knee sleeves. I was like, put a meat fit squat suit on and tell me that it's the same thing. Don't even use wraps, don't even use anything like that. Just where it's put that thing on, right? Take your raw one rep max and see if you can even maintain position in the thing. Because you won't. You won't. You don't just put it on and it just adds pounds to your total. No. Um, so that's my perspective on that. Dude, my favorite pieces of equipment. Uh, shout out. I'm gonna shout out, I'm I'm gonna name dropper, guys. This is just what I do. Go for it, go for it. To our boy Mike Hedlesky.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

Hey, Mike knows that guy.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

He goes, Mike, Mike is a gateway drug, dude. Mike is my gateway drug.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

I you know what, not to interrupt you, I feel like Mike is many people's gateway drug. I feel like Mike has gotten himself and other people into so much shit.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

Dude, so much love for that guy, so much gratitude for that guy. My first actual real powerlifting coach was Mike. And we we were dealing with just a couple things while I was lifting raw, and he had me on a pretty basic conjugate program, and I was having some weird hip stuff. And he's like, dude, just buy a pair of briefs. Just buy a pair of briefs. Get them, get them a size up. No, right? Let's let's let's get after some of this stuff. And dude, it ch not only did it change the way I even perceived lifting, it changed fundamentally how I coach. Because I was like, shit, you can use all this stuff to work around things and still squat and squat pain-free and squat heavy and get the stimulus and do all those things. Um, so I still have that pair of briefs to this day. I literally squatted in them the other day. Literally my favorite pair of piece of equipment, period. It's a cheap ass base level Titan pair of briefs.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

That's it's oh, like the um, what do they call them? Uh it's like just the bottom half of like a uh they literally I think they literally call them boxer briefs, and it's the Titan ones, right? They're it's like just the bottom half of a normal cut centurion, it's not even super material.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Nope, not even super material. Yeah, I I went like super entry level on it, dude. Yeah, like I went super entry level on it. Um by far my favorite piece of equipment, just because it means so much to me, because that that was like my entry into everything, and it really did, it it changed a lot. Um other than that, my blue Super Centurion that I squatted 903 at the cave in. Yep. Has some serious nostalgia to it. Um, that picture that you posted. If anybody wants a fun story, that's literally a little bit after I got the cave tattoo. And Travis looked at me as I'm about to walk out and squat 903 at the end. I'm running the monitor. If you miss this, you know we gotta go out back and black that thing out on your arm. Shit. Then I go, and of course I go and smash it, right? Like that that's just how we operate. But that one, um, and then I've got two pairs of wraps that I'm really fond of. The old school Elite FTS crate wraps. Ah, yeah, yeah. Um, I absolutely love. Like, they're they're like um, they're also like the first pair of aggressive wraps I ever had. Uh, and I really, really like those. They're they're pretty old school. They got a lot of miles on them too, and they're still, dude, those things hold up like tanks. They're amazing. Um and then uh the was Enzer, the Black Beauties. They're my competition rap.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

Oh, I I forgot. You do use Enzer Black Beauties. You don't see those two often anymore.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

Yep, I love those things. Probably the single most expensive pair of wraps I've ever bought. I think I think they were like 120 bucks.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Yeah, yeah, I knew they were at least 100 bucks. Yeah, they're very pricey.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Yeah, but they uh again, they've been bulletproof. They don't I like I use um extended needle-nose pliers to put my my wraps on. I don't use like straps or anything like that. I use this crazy ass that doesn't have the cutter piece to it, but it's this long thing, and it will destroy wraps. It is it is cut through two pairs of overkills pretty quickly. Um, but man, those ends, they don't even have a scratch on them, man.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

There's not a you definitely pay for the material on those, and I'd say that's one of the reasons I don't use pliers anymore to pull through, is because it would shred so many wraps if you use needle nose or snub nose. But I I use the strap now, but I know exactly what you're talking, man. I've ruined some pretty good wraps pretty easily with this. Because Carl Carl's a big fan of the atomics with the gripper on them, so you don't even have to pull them all the way through. You can tuck them, and the rubber's so tight they just stick to themselves, basically.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

I never have super crazy tie-offs. Like it's very simple.

SPEAKER_04 54:49

It's pretty easy.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Yeah, that that that's a good fit too. Those those are great too. The atomics.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

It's a classic.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

He actually, I don't know if people know this story. He actually owns my ice blue pair of Insur Atomics that I blew out both my quads in.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

And I squatted with those for like my first seven. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:11

He wore those. Really? I hope that not. Not superstitious, wore those shits on a platform.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

So they're not cursed like the uh the Elite FTS Curtis Miller singlet then.

SPEAKER_04 55:21

No, no, no, not like this. Not like that singlet, dude. Yeah. How many people have that taken out? Three? I think it's three now. Everyone. Yeah. The last one was Trey. Yeah, the last one was Trey. Yeah. What was that? His hip? Oh. I don't remember what it was. It was nasty, though. I was running the mono. I could hear it up close. I think it was hamstring.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

It scared the shit out of me, dude. Yeah, it was somewhere close to his hip.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

It was all the way up. Yeah, you could hear it. It was freaky. Um, so we got time for one more question, and then of course we can shoot the shit for a second if you got some questions for us, John. Um we both have an open mindset and goal setting, right? You know, you've done things, you've accomplished goals, I've done things, accomplished goals, we've gotten hurt, we've had to reevaluate, you add equipment, you take away equipment, you have a new division. We've done all different kinds of things, right? So we're forever updating like our list of accomplishments and things that may change in what we want to do. So, two things for you. What's your next goal in powerlifting slash thing you want to check off the list? And then finally, like, is there I and I know this is a dumb question, this terrible question, because we just talked about this, me and Carl. Um I know there's no endpoint for you, right? And I know you're still you're still very much like me. You're in a competitive nature and you will be until you can't. So, like, is there a spot for you somewhere down the road where you're like, alright, I'm I'm I'm gonna be okay a little bit if I regress. Like, I'm gonna be okay with this part of lifting in life.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

So I'm gonna start with current goals. Sure. Um, I a hundred percent want to squat a thousand single ply before.

SPEAKER_04 57:09

Hell yeah, single ply.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

And to be totally honest with you, when I first talked to Anthony, I was like, he said, so what are you like, what are your goals? I was like, I want to beat your all-time world record in single ply. And he's like, Alright, let's do it. Damn the the fact that he had no hesitation, he's like, thousand pounds, cool. Like, what after that? And I was like, dude, I that's what I want. He's like, okay. That's that's why I was like, okay, he's my guy. So it is all squat, it is all squat forever for me.

SPEAKER_04 57:38

The other two I don't care shit about.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

The squat's the one that matters the most, anyway. Hey, it's the one that I care the most about.

SPEAKER_04 57:43

I gotta give credit where credit's due, man. Your bench, your shirted bench has come a long way in the last year.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

It it has. Um, I put myself through a crash course on actually learning how to break in and use a shirt. Uh, and now we're really refining it. So I feel a lot more confident in it. But man, like the the squat stuff is just I I could squat every day. I I love it so much. You know, I was the feeling of it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

I was talking to Rachel the other day while we were in the car going to uh Florida, and I was actually I saw a video of you squatting, like the it was like whatever chain squat you did for a double, and I was like, man, I bet you he's gonna squat a G in the next year.

SPEAKER_04 58:21

Yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

You announced that as you heard it here first. Like I just said it the other day, and I fully believe it too. After hearing you say that, like I know it's gonna happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

And preferably have it happen here in the cave in front of us. That'd be sick. Where else do you think I would do that?

SPEAKER_03 58:35

That's that's true. I I know how you feel about it. If we're loading up a G, we gotta break out the 50 kilobytes. Oh my god, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Here we go. We're gonna do that, and I I have a draft order of who I want to be spotters and loaders.

SPEAKER_04 58:48

Oh, dude, no, that's that's commands respect. He's making his calls.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

Yeah. I I need Rob right behind me.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

Yep, that's that's my usually man of the hour, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah, that's my guy.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

Laura and him and Laura are coming with me and Carl to VA Beach uh May 31st when me and Carl are doing the APO meet. No, no, it's not an APO.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

No, it is APO. It is APO. I got like four meets in my head.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

There's a lot of, there's a lot of Carl Carl's always trying to compete. I told him he needs to slow down. He's trying to compete like eight times a year. Put up eight new toasts. He's got that young blood in it, man.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

Yeah, you you should you probably should calm down on that a little bit, Carl. Maybe seven.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Well, my record last year was four, and I think I can do five. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

That's rough. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

But shout out to Rob because Rob is Rob and uh and Tim are my two guys that can GBP do balls.

SPEAKER_04 59:41

He is everyone's favorite cartoon character. Such a hype man too.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Well, and it it enables me to be a cartoon character before I walk out there. Like, that's that's that's my favorite piece. And I know with Rob, I can walk up to the back spotter and also have fun and not have anybody like too nervous about what's about to happen. Like, that's just the best. I love it, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

No, I've I've shell shock rock to uh Rob to death. He is prepared for anything, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

He's ready for anything right now. Um when it comes to the second question, uh I know that regression is inevitable. Um but my first experience at like a really big meet, so the very first federation that I ever competed in was 100% raw. Um, so I've gone from like you're not allowed to use knee wraps or knee knee sleeves at all. Like all you had was a belt and wrist wraps. That's all you could use. Right. So I remember going to World Championships with me and my my guy John Jones, and uh we walk into this giant hotel convention center, and all the lights are off. Like all the lights are off, and a big spotlight pops open and goes to one of the platforms in the area, and it's this like 80-year-old dude, bro. He's like there might be 115 pounds in the bar. And he walks up to that thing like he is cock strong as shit, and squats to full depth, and stands up and pounds his fist, and they announce that like this is his like 50th year competing or something. Five. You know what I mean? And I remember being like, Man, I don't care the number on the bar, I want to be that guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

Dude, I that's what I want. I have had that revelation so many times.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

And and it was like my first experience at a large, like that was the first big meet that I had ever been to. And that that I know it's gonna regress. I know it's probably gonna regress soon. With something, but man, as long as I can keep going, that's all I care about. That's all I care about.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:48

Hell yeah, man. I love to hear it. I always picture myself because uh like I I will say since I've been injured, like, you know, the last couple years, I I I might as well just say it for fucking eternity because there isn't really a year I haven't been like pretty fucked up. Um I've really been enjoying like bodybuilding a lot, and now instead of like the old guy with the 115 on the bar and like pounding my chest and like the cockstrong thing and you're competing when you're like 80. Now I kind of also picture me as like the really old, like leathery, wrinkly guy on the beach that still has like an eight-pack. I feel like I'm gonna be like I'm gonna feel like I'm gonna be like the really ripped like grandpa guy. I feel like that's gonna be me still. That's that's definitely a way to go. But but I won't be the guy that's like back in my day. I used to bench 405. I'll be like, is open powerlifting still a thing? Go check my go check my shit.

unknown 1:02:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

You gotta have a printout last tattoo, especially.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:50

Like here is I'll keep a laminated uh like it'll be have to be on a scroll.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

It's just a QR code.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:57

You scan this and bring it take you right to my page. Um but yeah, man. Uh so you know, not to put any pressure on you, dude, but uh when are we gonna see you, man?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

I'm hoping pretty soon. Um let's see, what when is the next meet? Is King of the Cave next? What's next? Yeah, it's in two months, yep. Second or third week of June. Then you're definitely gonna see me there. Okay, cool. Because you're you're already you're already signed up, right? I don't know if I'm actually already signed up. We might as well sign up.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:27

Yeah, we should probably figure that out. Um also, if if you're not signed up and you're just coming to like coach and bullshit and hang out and stuff and get some training sessions, what about um Wyatt? Is he gonna compete? Because Wyatt's been here a bunch, but I don't has he ever competed at the cave? I believe he has. I think he competed last time. He did. Did he? Yeah, yeah, you did. I couldn't remember. I keep mixing up meets because we've had so many here. I keep imagining him handling you, but then like I I forgot. Yeah, I have seen him in a singlet in here.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Yeah, yeah, I totally remember the name back there. The the second time he was there when he fucked up my last warm-up for squat.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:58

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, the the legendary video of the the complete overhaul of the opener in the warm-up room and then accidentally taking less out here. Like way less.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:09

Yeah, like substantially less. Take 890 in the warm-up room, take 820.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:14

Yeah, dude, that was so dumb. Something like that. I sent you that video, didn't I? Off the ring camp. The best part, the best part, fucking gaglion.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

I was like, John, were you like worried? He goes, No, I mean it it moved slower than I thought a last warm-up would for you, but I mean it moved really well. Literally all he said. He's like, then I looked at the plates as you were walking out there, and I was like, I think that's a little heavier than he wanted to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

That's too good. Wait, thanks. Yeah, eight power lifters, and none of them can math in the mono.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:42

No, of course that's a big problem. Well, in the heat of the moment, you're looking at a almost 900 pound squire, you're like, oh wow. Yeah, you're like, fuck it, close enough. Can't wait to see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

Yeah, yeah. Let's go. He's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:50

Just spot him. He's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

I wonder why I was so gassed after my second attempt.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Why do I feel dead right now?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

Well, John, it has been super real, man. Um, do you have any questions for me or Carl? Actually, I do. Okay, hit us. Hit us. We got time for we got time. We got time for one more. Yep, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

Okay. How do you feel like competing in powerlifting has changed you as a person? Oh shit. Carl, you want to go first?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Damn. Okay, sure. Not to put you on the spot. It has it changed me as a person. I don't know if it's changed me, to be honest. I think it's just revealed to me who I wanted to be. You know what I mean? Like whatever was in me was already in me, but like I found a way to express it and put it towards something that I enjoy. Like you got two wolves in you and they're both cross-side? Yeah, one has diarrhea, one has diarrhea. I think Mary said something like that on her podcast. Yeah, yeah. I th no, I think, I mean, obviously, obviously it's like it's given me a lot of direction and it's given me uh an output that I really enjoy. Um, and so much more like I found so many cool people in in in

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

you know experiencing what powerlifting is um and that's probably changed me in a more than ways that I can even imagine but um overall it's just I don't know I think it it's just giving me a spot where I can you know truly be who who I who I enjoy to be and what I can you know provide to other people very nice uh I would say it has simultaneously made me softer and harder at the same time um it has taught me many things as far as to trust people more and at the same time trust people a lot less I would say for every push there was an equal or greater pull within my time in the sport both as a competitor and a gym owner director facilitator both sides of the platform that I've been on I'd say equally a push with a pull um because once you pull that veil back and you see everything involved in it the relationships the not so good ones the people you meet the terrible people you meet like there's always more to it than you initially thought and I I talk about this a lot but I always reflect on like when me and Jess talk and we're like do you remember what it was like to like just be a lifter like you just showed up and you lifted and you didn't know any better and you were super naive and so disassociated with all of it except for the part of it was just power lifting like I I still remember going to Crossfit Frederick and warming up in like a fucking terribly fucking put together ER rack with um an Olympic bar and uh fucking rogue rubber plates and you'd walk out four of five and they're like it would whip the whole fucking time but like those were still the fucking days because like you just you just thought that's what powerlifting was you didn't have kilos in the in the warm-up room you didn't have like all the bells and whistles like you didn't warm up on the same equipment that was on the platform and it was just like you didn't know any better but you fucking loved it anyway. And so like for me at at where I was and now to where I am I think the thing that I I think I'd have to agree with Charl Carl it it showed me that I'd love this no matter what it was and it was always meant to be like I was always supposed to be here I was always supposed to be under a bar and it was always supposed to be the way it was supposed to be like the injuries the fuck ups the disassociation with friends the losing people the gaining people like it was all supposed to be the way it was because it's all part of powerlifting no matter how much you want to dive into it or don't want to dive into it it all comes along for the ride. So I mean I think it really changed me in the aspect that it made me it gave me a second chance and it made me be proud of who I am for that second chance. So forever grateful for the the fucking people you meet and uh powerlifting in the sport. And now I'm gonna cry and take pictures of the gym and do a walk around and say oh fuck I love this place though.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

Glad I was able to stir that up in you man. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

Yeah something about a a big hairy man that squats 900 just really like tickles the tears for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:31

Because we got hearts man we we got the beating things in our chests and we care about each other.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:35

Some would say sometimes I'd like to admit it a lot less well man thank you so much for coming on it's been a great episode we really enjoy having you me and Carl both absolutely love you and love listening to your talk. You're very knowledgeable educational and of course if you haven't heard this enough times already please check out John's book.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

We have it right here on the table but John can you tell them where that's available uh humankinetics.com you can check it out there or you can find it right on Amazon that's what I thought just search Foundational strength and you can find it right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:05

And there's not many people I would plug as hey if you want a coach go get this coach but I have always said in my top three of people I would refer to John Flag has always been one of them. So you heard it here first. If you need a coach and you don't like me go talk to John. So appreciate it buddy of course man anytime and we really look forward to seeing you man I can't wait to see you in June. Absolutely I'll be there. Alright sounds good man with peace and love we are out for episode three Grumpy Paws now Carl's gotta walk across the room and there we go.