Outside the Line

Episode 20 - Bridging Bars and Badges with Rico and BriAnn Lopez

• Dina

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Welcome to Outside the Line - the podcast for cops who are learning to stay anchored to the real world.

This week I'm joined by husband and wife team Rico Lopez and BriAnn Shipley, the voices on the Thin Line Rock Station and 8158 podcasts, among others. Together they share how they built a platform rooted in helping first responders while also advocating for something people tend to overlook - second chances.

Rico opens up about his journey as a former inmate and his passion for mentoring incarcerated individuals in life skills to help prevent recidivism. His perspective is rare and deeply needed - he believes support doesn't have to choose sides. 

We talk about mental health, redemption, resilience, and what it means to be a bridge between first responders and those working to rebuild their lives. This conversation challenges the "us versus them" mentality and reminds us that healing, accountability, and support can coexist - on both sides of the line.


Connect with Rico and BriAnn:

https://www.tiktok.com/@8158podcast

https://www.instagram.com/8158podcast

https://www.thethinlinerockstation.com/our-djs

https://www.slightlyunhingedradio.com/

https://www.instagram.com/slightlyunhingedmedianetwork/


Connect with me:

https://www.instagram.com/outsidethelinepod

https://www.facebook.com/outsidethelinepodcast



SPEAKER_03

Welcome to Outside the Line, a podcast with conversations about keeping cops anchored to what really matters. Life outside the simply line. I'm your host, Dina Campbell, an active duty NYPD detective on a mission to normalize conversations around resilience and mental health and help cops develop self-awareness and an identity outside their career so they can enjoy life and thrive in the real world outside the line. Welcome back to Outside the Line, the podcast for cops who are learning to live life outside of the thin blue line. My name is Dina Campbell. I'm joined by husband and wife Duo, two of the DJs on the Thin Line Rock Station. Brianne Chipley is the host of Coffee, Chaos, and Courage, Mondays from 8 to 12. And Rico Lopez is the host of Rico's Rock Headlock. And Rico, you're on twice, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. You're on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 8 to 20.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. And then Rico's also the host of the 8158 podcast. And Brianne is the production manager. So welcome, guys. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it is an honor to be on here with you.

SPEAKER_03

Likewise. So how did you guys get started on the Thin Line Rock station?

SPEAKER_00

Uh well, actually, I would let Brianne take that one because she is the one that brought it to my attention, which surprised me. And I thought she was pulling my leg, but she obviously was not.

SPEAKER_02

Well, um, to back up just a little bit, um, the 8158 podcast came a long time ago, came first. So we've been doing the 8158 podcast for over a year now.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So of course we're on all of the socials and everything. And uh so we have a TikTok account and uh the Finline Rock Station, we followed each other on TikTok. And we I had posted that we were doing a coin and patch trade. And so James from the Finline Rock Station reached out to us and wanted to know if he could send us some patches and stickers and stuff. And we said, yes, of course. Um, we want to trade and we we want all the things. So he sent those to us and then he said it was very weird.

SPEAKER_00

It was what encryptic.

SPEAKER_02

It was, yeah, it was cryptic, yeah. So he was like, I have a challenge for you. And I was like, okay, what what? That's weird. And I can't remember the exact words, but it was something it was something weird that made it sound like he wanted us to do like an ad on the station. And so I was like, I don't understand what you're asking me. So I was super confused. And then we finally got to communication and figured out that he was asking if we wanted, if he, if if Rico wanted to DJ on the Finland Run station because he didn't know anything about me, you know, he's the face of the podcast. And uh, so I was like, oh, okay, what is what is this? So so he sent me an email with all the information and I brought it to his attention and he was like, What? Are you serious? I'm like, yeah, this this guy that has this radio station wants you to be a DJ on it. And so he was like, Well, absolutely, he didn't even hesitate. So that's in the rest of his history.

SPEAKER_03

So did you guys get your shows at the same time?

SPEAKER_02

No. No, he was first and he was actually on Mondays from eight to 10. Um, and then he liked it so much, and then he was getting a lot of good response, a lot of good feedback. James was getting a lot of good feedback, and so he had asked, um, Rico asked him, would it be okay to get more time? And so he was like, Okay, well, I'll give you Mondays from eight to noon. And then he was like, actually, you know what? What do you think about doing Tuesdays and Thursdays from eight to noon? So he went from two hours to eight hours to spam. Um, and then while he was on the phone with him, he was like, you know, I think my wife would do a really good job if you are looking for another DJ, I think she would be a good fit. And so he I was voluntold that I now am going to be a DJ.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

And in accompanying to that, I had a friend who was also on our podcast that I introduced to James, who is Jason. You know who Jason is.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I got him involved and I got them connected, and he is now obviously DJing for the Thin Line Rock Station as well.

SPEAKER_03

And he was the one who brought me on, so it all comes full circle.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Backing up though, um, so the 8158 podcast is what got you noticed on the Thinline Rock Station. While not being first responders yourselves, you do a lot of really great, incredible advocacy work and you give a lot of support to the first responder community. So why don't you guys talk about the 8158 podcast and how that came to be?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so the 8158 podcast came about uh shortly after the tragedy that struck our family. Uh, my cousin William Bill Butler Jr. was a 20-year uh Army veteran, retired, and a 13-year veteran with the Hillsdale County Sheriff's Office. And uh he was responding to a backup call. And while he was in response to that backup call, he arrived on scene to uh assist other deputies on the call, and he was on the call on the uh scene for 10 seconds when he was shot and killed while protecting his other deputies.

SPEAKER_03

That's terrible. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00

My and my wife here I I I stress to her that we have to do something about this. There's something that has to be done because Billy meant a lot to us. Well to me personally, because he was somebody that I looked up to not really idolized, but I loved and cared about. And I looked up to him because he was like the best part of our family. He was the best person in our family. And I always looked up to him. And uh, you know, it was just a very hard stroke for our family. And uh so she said, Well, why don't you do a podcast? And I looked at her and I was like, Are you freaking crazy? Like, I'm not that kind of a person. I don't I'm not like you know, outspoken or nothing like that. I don't I don't like speaking in front of people, but obviously now you know that things have changed. So obviously it fired and from the podcast, all of this stuff had transpired from that.

SPEAKER_03

So what go ahead, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00

So to continue with that, we we initially did the podcast about uh trying to bring awareness to people like the public saying, you know, law enforcement, first responders, they're people, they have families that care about them, love them, you know, let's show them respect, that kind of thing. And early on in the podcast, doing the podcast, we come across the fact that uh a lot of first responders were going through a lot of mental health issues and taking their own lives. And that became a very uh hard hit for us because we love our first responders, and uh it hurt to know that they were doing this and we wanted to do something and speak out about it. And one of the things that kind of boosted us was we were on uh Lex 18 News from out of Lexington. They came and uh did a piece on us and uh because we were talking about the mental health issues and stuff, and then it kind of just snowballed from that. And well, to back up a little bit, we quickly realized that Billy was a very humble and loving guy, and he would not want all the attention on him. So we figured what better way to honor him than to honor other first responders and to get them help if we can't? What can we do to help them? Because that's what he would have wanted.

SPEAKER_03

What a beautiful way to honor your cousin's memory, and also, you know, you're carrying on his legacy by paying it forward to help other first responders. What kind of um what topics do you talk about on your podcast for those who aren't familiar?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, we go from a range of topics. You know, we talk, you talk about the childhood, any childhood traumas, anything that relates to trying why why do people become first responders? Why do people have mental health issues? What causes those issues to start? You know, a lot of it has to do with first responders become first responders because the majority of them have childhood traumas and they want to be the hero, or not the hero, but you know, the people that help people, which makes a lot of sense because I was in that same boat. I had my own childhood traumas. I wanted to be a first responder myself, but unfortunately I was too much of a knucklehead. Um but you know, we talk about that, we talk about you know what caused a lot of these traumas, how how did the traumas lead to a lot of the the responses that they have, like you know, the the uh the the uh suicidal ideations and a lot of that stuff that comes along with being law enforcement or fire or EMS or any kind of first responders, even corrections officers, they go through the same exact thing.

SPEAKER_03

What are some of the most common themes or or common things that people bring up when you're talking about, you know, two first responders about their mental health challenges?

SPEAKER_00

Uh a lot of the major, the very the I would say the top number one issue with first responders, whether it doesn't matter if you're a police officer, law enforcement all the way through EMS, the number one issue that causes major trauma for first responders is when it comes to children.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that that I can relate to that. Um, that makes a lot of sense. You can you can kind of make sense around like death is tragic. Somebody who's an adult, or especially like somebody elderly who you can kind of conceptualize has lived a long life is easier to make sense of than a young person and especially a child, because that this little person should have theoretically had their whole life ahead of them. And for whatever reason, that's not the case.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And to piggyback on that, to answer to go a second theme that we see a lot is there's not the support within the agency. So they don't talk to a guy the other day that's been in EMS for 10 years and he's had one debrief in 10 years. So that is very common, is that they don't debrief. They don't give them the time or support that's needed when they come across these traumas. They're just expected to get back on the truck and go back to work. Um, and so I think that also leads to a lot of internal issues because they haven't had a chance to talk to anyone about it and they don't want to talk to anyone because they think that they're the only one.

SPEAKER_03

That's such a great point. A lot of these smaller where you guys are, is it a volunteer fire EMS or do they get paid?

SPEAKER_00

Both.

SPEAKER_03

Both up here, uh, police gets paid. I I think it is a little bit of both. We have I'm outside of New York City, I don't live in the city. So we have um volunteer as well as smaller departments that get paid, but they just don't have access to the same resources that a larger department has. So my heart always goes out to the smaller departments and not just cops fire EMS, but dispatchers, corrections, like you said, all of us are dealing with the same critical incidents. And, you know, sometimes, like you said, Brianne, it's just like, all right, well, you know, we you there's no time to be debriefed, you got to get to the next call.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

So I appreciate you know your advocacy work and doing all of that. Do you notice first responders? I'm curious about if they if they talk about how important their marriages and families are outside of of their work, you know, friendships outside of their work, or do they mostly just talk about work?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, they actually do find that their families are very important. And it is a very hard uh topic for them to talk about because the majority of first responders have been through a few marriages because of the job and the lack of communication between the spouse and the first responder uh because they're not given those tools to uh be able to handle the situations like the first responder will be out on a job and he'll come home or he or she'll come home in in a state to where the spouse will not understand. They can't communicate that to the spouse. They don't know how to relate what's going on, and they don't want to bring the trauma to the spouse. So they hold it in. And even though they're they love their families and the family dynamic is so important, they just don't know how to communicate what they've been through and what they've seen at home. They don't want to bring it home, they want to leave it at work, but the spouse don't understand that. So it causes a lot of trouble within the home dynamic.

SPEAKER_03

And that's why I really love that you guys are normalizing all of these conversations, even without your guests maybe realizing it. You know, they're talking about critical incidents, they're normalizing conversations about struggling, and hopefully somebody else listening who might need to hear that. You know, that's the message that sinks in and they they just feel a little bit less alone. Was there anything that surprised either of you uh when you started podcasting and talking to first responders that like you didn't realize about first responder culture?

SPEAKER_00

Um well, I I kind of had an idea that a lot of first responders were uh had the suicidal ideations. I just didn't know the magnitude on which it was just that bad. Um it was it was disheartening for us. And the fact that see, I already knew that first responders were normal people because you know uh my grandfather he was a police detective in Berkeley, California. Obviously, my cousin, he was a sheriff's deputy. So he they're normal people. I was in a foster home where my foster dad was a police officer in Fremont, California, and uh he was a normal person, he loved to have fun, they laughed. I know there was problems in the marriage, I just didn't understand what was going on, what the dynamic was in that situation. So uh it's just the the amount of first responders that were taking their own lives because they were not getting the help and support from their superiors, and the fact that they couldn't talk about it to anyone because of fear of losing their jobs, of being looked at sideways, uh, you know, fear of not being able to do the job that they wanted to do, that they love doing, and not getting the help that they needed. And it was disheartening and very sad for us to hear that.

SPEAKER_03

And you also made a good point. Uh what maybe you didn't realize it, but growing up in a house with a a parent who was a first responder, it's difficult for kids to make sense of these things when they're young because they just don't have the life experience. So a lot of times when we come home, when speaking for me, and I'm short or I'm checked out, you know, they they think that it was something that they did wrong and it wasn't. And I have to really like pull them aside and be like, listen, I'm so sorry. You deserve for me to be present. Let me just, you know, I just need a few minutes to myself first because I had a really long day, and then you know, we'll go do whatever the thing is that you want to do.

SPEAKER_00

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

How do you guys? And I know you know you have a between the podcasts and the radio shows and traveling for your wellness conferences and all of the outreach that you guys do. What do you do to take care of yourselves?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I know that uh we have our dogs. So, you know, what I like to do is I get on my PlayStation. I know my wife hates it a lot. I like my PlayStation to kind of check out and just enjoy that. I do hunting now. That's like my favorite game, it's hunting on the PlayStation and you know, first person shooter type stuff. You know, we do uh manage to go on vacations, we do have full-time jobs, just so everybody knows. Yes, we work full-time, and we do all of this stuff on top of and doing the podcast and the Thin Line Rock Station. We have our own rock uh radio station as well, and we're also uh doing a morning show for uh radio station up in Canada. So we do all this stuff voluntarily, and we we run our own uh uh nonprofit uh organization that helps first responders, which is called the William H. Bill Butler Jr. Foundation, which is up on the wall right there behind me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I forgot to ask you about that. You want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00

Sure, we can talk about it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um so the uh after we started the podcast, we decided to do a nonprofit foundation because of the alarming rate of because uh so circling back to a cousin's death, two weeks prior to his death, another sheriff's deputy was uh killed in line of duty in Michigan in Oakland County, uh which is Detroit. Uh shortly after Billy had lost his life, uh one of the uh Hillsdale County uh deputies who was a dispatch lost her life to cancer. So we memorialized her in our garden with yellow lilies. And of course we got a banner for my cousin. So for Tammy, we memorialized her uh with the yellow lilies, and then for my cousin, we got a banner with blue lights on it. And uh like a week or two weeks after that, another police officer in Cleveland was killed. He was like 24, 25 years old, just a young kid. And then it just kept we kept getting more and more, and it was just like what can we do to help? We can't stop the crime, but we can at least try to do something. So we started the foundation. The foundation is founded on helping first responders with their mental health issues, uh helping uh the fallen, you know, the families of the fallen, which is uh military and first responders, and uh also uh helping uh new recruits who are getting in the first responder field with you know getting their education. Uh that's why we're trying to get a lot of uh sponsors to come in to help put in money to the plot so that we can help first responders get into schools, get their books or whatever they need assistance to do that. And also with that, uh the other part of that is helping juvenile offenders who need counseling after they're out. And if they qualify to become a first responder, we would try to help them get their counseling and go to school to become a first responder as well to break the cycle, you know, that that cycle of crime.

SPEAKER_03

I was just gonna say, I I love that so much because we don't talk about enough once somebody pays their debt to society, they get out and then what? There's no support and they're kind of on their own, and they just go back to what they know, and that's how they become recidivists. So I love that you get them early while they're juveniles, and you show them that there's a better path. And not only do you show them, but you help them get there.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right. And that's kind of why uh her and I got together and um we're working on a Rico's life coaching course, which specifically uh deals with uh inmates to reduce recidivism, reduce the crime, and hopefully with the uh juvenile offenders. Because like to be honest, myself, uh like I said, I was a knucklehead. I did my time. I did 14 years in Montana State prison. But the thing is, I did not fall into the category of getting into the uh convict code. Convict mentality. I hated that. It was contradictory. I wanted a better life for myself. So what did I do when I was in there? I did everything and anything I possibly could to keep busy. Whether it was keeping activities like I was in the boxing club, I played music, learned how to play guitar. I was in several bands. I went to school full-time. I had a job full-time. And then, you know, I ended up getting a CDL while I was there. And I did a bunch of things, and I was a trustee. Towards the end, I became a trustee, and I traveled around the entire state of Montana delivering all kinds of goods. Uh with a staff member, of course. I wasn't by myself, I was with a staff member. Okay, so but that's kind of like what I did, and I'm like, why can't other guys see this? And then even when I got up, I I cannot tell you, I cannot lie about it. It was hard. It was tough. Even with the background that I had having a CDL, it's tough living a life, and it took me like 10 years to even get to a place to where I felt normal. And it took what 10 years for us. Like her and I got together and we got married. We bought a house before we got married, and it took so long to get to that point. But I was so driven, and at that point, I wanted to be successful. I didn't want to be like the other guys because I kept seeing the same guys coming in and out, in and out, in and out. And I I knew the reason why they were going in now is because they made it easy for those guys because during the fiscal year they got paid by number. How many people come through the system? That's how Montana does it. So if you got sent to Montana State Prison and four months later you got out and went to uh a pre-release center, Montana pre-release center, wherever you were at, they both got paid for you. If you got sent back from that pre-release center within that fiscal year, Montana got paid for you twice, state prison. And then they send you back to the pre-release. So now both of them got paid twice, which pre-releases are a private corporation as well as the private prisons that they have around the states. So when they send you around to all these places, they get paid for you multiple times because you're paid by number, not by name.

SPEAKER_03

So they're really incentivizing the recidivism instead of the support and the uh rehabilitation.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And and and I say that Montana's not the only state that does it. I think that uh Arizona might be one of them, Texas might be one of them, uh, because they have private prisons. Any place that they have a private prison, well, they privatize prisons, that is an incentive because prisons don't do it for uh you know for free. They get paid. Obviously, there's money in it, right? So you cannot fool, you cannot conic on. You can't conic on. So like just a quick little story, you know, I was doing I was a uh I was the uh trustee, and I was two years from discharging my sentence. I've been begging for paroles out of all this time. I'd lost my wife, I'd lost my children, they were in foster care, my mom had passed away from cancer, and everything that I loved I pretty much lost. And uh right towards the end, I had pretty much nothing except for my brothers and my stepfather. And uh so the last two years that I was in the prison system, uh they called me up for parole and I went to the sergeant's office and I said, uh, hey Sarge, uh can you call the parole board and tell them that I respectfully decline parole? And he's like, What? I was like, Yes, I respectfully decline parole. It makes no sense for me to go out for two years and do uh eight months, nine months, or even a year and a half to be violated on something that is petty to come back to do two more years left. I'm not gonna do it. I am not a pawn, that's not what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna sit here, finish my two years, after out of 14 years, two years is nothing. That's the way I felt. And I quit this job, I was already out in the world, I was getting adjusted, and it was part of my adjustment period, I felt. I was getting adjusted, I was getting used to being uh out in the world, and uh I just told them, like, I am not gonna be a part of that recidivism. I'm sorry. That's just not who I am. I just want to get out and move on with my life, right? And they looked at me like I was crazy. But uh unfortunately, uh the last six months, uh my stepdad got a hold of me and said that he might have had uh uh cancer, prostate cancer, or pancreatic cancer, or something like that. So I did apply for parole and uh I didn't get out until like a month from discharge, anyways. So it was like, okay, a month, you're gonna send me back for a month. I don't really give a crap.

SPEAKER_03

It sounds like having a sense of purpose while you were in there is really what helped you cope with those 14 years and also become a mentor. And you're like the perfect go-between, you know, from somebody who's been incarcerated and now all the advocacy that you do, not just with first responders but with juveniles, that they don't become recidivists. It's like the perfect combination.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and and yes, I've been to juvenile hall many times. But uh, you know, during the process of being a uh trustee, was it wasn't just like getting out, getting adjusted. I was in contact with a lot of professional people, and a lot of our things were dealing with judges. We go to judges, deliver like because the inmates built like hardwood oak desks. And so because the prison system had a uh a wood shop where they mill they made really fine furniture, you know, like the the classy, the classic, you know, stuff that you see with the little nails in it and all that, you know, the the tuck and hook, all that stuff. They built a lot of that stuff for like courthouses and the state capitol. I've been in the state capitol more times than I can count, which is beautiful by the way. Montana State Capitol is gorgeous. Inside, it is gorgeous. Um so if you ever get a chance to see it on um Yellowstone, you'll get glimpses of it inside. Even though Yellowstone was filmed in Utah, they'll show clips of of the state capital, the actual state capitol. And if they show clips of that, that's the actual state capitol. I know that for a fact because I've been in it more times than I can count, and I recognize every part of that building. Um and also with uh sheriff's offices and uh the highway patrol. We've been to a lot of those places, so I dealt with a lot of first responders and professional people that treated me with a lot of respect. And they knew I was an inmate, obviously, but they didn't treat me like I was just a piece of garbage. They were just like, hey, how are you doing? You know, treating me like a normal person. I was there to do a job, and then we would go back or I'd stay the night somewhere, whether it was a pre-release or a county jail, and then we'd go back to the prison. Even though it wasn't inside the prison, it was on prison grounds. Because I lived outside the prison, there was no fences, we had keys to our own vehicles, because the property's like 40,000 acres, it's huge.

SPEAKER_03

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, they had cattle ranches, they had cowboy crews, road crews, fire crews, and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Did it surprise you when you were treated like a human being instead of an inmate?

SPEAKER_00

I was caught off guard, yes. I didn't know how to act at first, but you know, I did it for like five years, so I was well adjusted by then.

SPEAKER_03

That's good. And it gave sounds like it gave you a sense of control back too over your life. Like you had a little bit of autonomy. You even you couldn't control your situation at the present, but you could control how you've responded and what you made out of those circumstances. So kudos to you for really taking ownership of your life.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate that. You know, yeah. The main part is is realizing okay, I screwed up, I did this, and that was my talking point with the pro. Like, I didn't make a mistake, I willfully did what I did. And I know a lot of people they they're like they find that disgusting. But it's the truth. And the truth is, I willfully did what I did to get myself here. Now I am trying to, I can't change what I did in the past, but I can change my future today. And what can I do today to make myself better for tomorrow? That's my truth.

SPEAKER_03

So and that's a great message for anybody, right? I love the story about how you two met, and I actually heard it on Brianne's first episode of her podcast, Beautifully Unplanned. So I want to now uh you know, switch over to you and ask first, definitely talk a little bit about Beautifully Unplanned and all of your projects, but I also want to know how you recharge and how you stay, I like to call it anchored to the real world outside of all the incredible work that you do.

SPEAKER_02

Well, um it's funny actually, because I joke that I have like high functioning ADHD, um undiagnosed, but in a different way. So a lot of people that have ADHD, they start a lot of projects, but they don't finish them, right? And for me, I do all of the projects and I complete them all and I want to do more and I want to be busy. So for me, that's the way that my brain functions. So if I I don't like downtime. So if I have downtime, I'm always finding something to do. I've I've got to be doing something with my hands, I've got to be, you know, I'm always thinking of different things to do. And so that's kind of so I don't really decompress in the same way that other people do. My decompress is to always be doing things, which is why we now have so many things.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

That's okay. Everyone recharges differently.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03

What about hobbies? I mean, besides work. Or is work your hobby? Which is okay too. Like no judgment.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I mean, yeah, we work a lot.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um, you know, um, I used to have a lot of hobbies until I got so busy that I didn't have time for hobbies. Um, I used to do a lot of creative art stuff, um, crocheting, painting, things like that. Um, we have recently gotten memberships to uh a what do you call it? Uh they have different archeries and shooting rings. Um well it's not actually called a gun club. It's called fish and wildlife, I think is what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00

It is a gun club.

SPEAKER_02

But but they have they have shooting there, they have archery, they have ski, you know, ski shooting, and and so we got a membership there and we've been doing that with my parents um every weekend or over the weekend. We go there and just you know, shoot and play around out there. And um, that's really our we go out sparking, which is like the Walmart delivery service. We do that.

SPEAKER_03

It sounds like you just channeled your creativity into like projects.

unknown

Right. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I love that.

SPEAKER_00

And she's a very good shot too.

SPEAKER_03

I I was just gonna assume that she was the better shot because I know a lot of me and my husband, I'm the better shot.

SPEAKER_02

So I think it's a female thing. I really do, because I've talked to a lot of people at work that same thing, like first, second try, they're hitting the bullseye, and it's always the female. So I think it's just a female thing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I think it is.

SPEAKER_02

We're gonna go with that. Except for the speech shooting, because I can't shoot a moving target.

SPEAKER_03

I haven't tried that yet, but it looks so much fun.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's hard. It's fun. It's hard.

SPEAKER_03

So if you could go back, uh you don't even have to go back, but if you could give a piece of advice to a first responder based on all the work that you guys have done up to this point, who's struggling, whether it's with their mental health or finances, relationships, gambling, whatever they're struggling with, what would you what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00

I would say seek help. Find somebody, support system, anything and everything you could possibly get your involved with do it. If it's counseling, get in get into counseling. If it's a support group, get into support groups. If you have to go to NAAA, it doesn't matter. Anything that will help you to better your life so that you can become a better provider, you will be better off in your life. And I know the NA personally, it's not something that I would do because it's not my issue. Uh, but however, uh I speaking about my stepfather, he was a 40-year uh addict to heroin and an alcoholic. And he has been an NA and AA for 20 something years and sober. So obviously it works. It works for him for somebody who's done it for so long. That was a support network. And he still does it. He's like leading projects and stuff like that. So he's involved with that. But you know, even if it's just talking to somebody, get help. Yeah, I did that, you know, I bottled a lot of stuff up, and that's part of the why the reason why I got into trouble because, you know, I was actually in the process of enlisting in the National Guard at that time. And I bottled a lot of stuff up and I kept it inside and it kept me from doing what I wanted to do, you know, because I thought I wasn't good enough and I thought that there was something wrong with me, and and all these emotions and thoughts came through my head, and I I pretty much sabotaged my future in that way, at least in that path.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and to add to that, you know, I mean, we hear it all the time, everybody always says you're not alone, it's okay to not be okay, but it's true, you know. And um we have a hotline that is it's a Google voice number, it's forwarded to Rico's phone. And of course, we're not therapists or you know, anything, but um, sometimes you just need somebody that doesn't that doesn't know you, you know, and you just need somebody to talk to, and you just want somebody who will listen and not give advice and not, you know, try to judge you or whatever. And so we started a hotline that people can call and they can just talk to Rico and they don't have to say who they are, where they're from, where they work, and they can just talk and he'll listen, you know, if that's what they want, if they want advice, he can, you know, try to give them advice the best way he knows how, um, not in a therapy sense, obviously, but just as a person to person. And we've had a few calls, you know, nothing, it's not like we're springing off the hook or anything, but but the numbers out there if anybody wants to use it and um it's on our TikTok page. And um, you know, and I just have to, you know, have to brag on Rico for just a second because when we started this podcast, like he said, he was a very, he was an introvert. He was like, I can't talk to people. And I said, Well, you're only talking to one person, you know, it's not like you're standing in front of a group of people. And so he's really come out of the shell and opened up a lot. But the thing that I have to brag on is that we have had over a hundred interviews and we don't know these people. I mean, we know them now, but we didn't know them. And they came on and they were willing to talk about their childhood, their traumas, their work, you know, where they work, what they do, their critical incidents, their mental health issues, and they don't even know us. So the fact that they felt like they could trust him enough to come on this random podcast and talk to this guy about their entire life says something about him, you know, and and the his persona and just his empathy and his heart for people. And um, so it's just been really good and amazing to just see all the people that are like that, just shows how much people need to talk.

SPEAKER_03

And I was just gonna say, I'm so glad you brought that up because you don't have to be, I'm not a therapist either. I mean, I'm a peer counselor, but sometimes the best conversation just happens spontaneously, just from one human being to another. I think in this, and I'm I'm not gonna go like down a rabbit hole on too much of a rant, but in this internet age where everybody's plugged in, we're connected, but connected to like our our technology and disconnected from our humanity. And I think that's the beauty of your hotline, and I think that's what people are craving, and that's why they've been going on your podcast and opening up because we're missing so much of that human connection and the ripple effect that comes from giving a little bit of that back. You you guys will never know the positive effect and the lives that you you will touch just by showing up and making yourselves available.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's been it's really been really amazing how people, I mean, when we get to the point where we think we're gonna run out of interviews because we were just not as busy, and then and then like this last weekend we had six, you know, six interviews in one weekend. So it's it comes in waves, you know. Um, and word just spread very, very quickly when we started doing this. And so that just told us we we must be doing something right. It's it's must be needed.

unknown

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03

It's very urgent. People need support. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, Rico.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we just started this uh the first of January, January 1st of 25. And we're on season three now. When we first started it, it was kind of wrapping up, and then we started we started having to put produce two episodes a week because we had so many people coming on. It was just like, oh, we can't wait that long to put all these episodes out. So we had to do we did it what uh what was it Wednesday and Sunday and released them because there were so many people then season two came out, same thing, and now season three it slowed down, thankfully. But now we're just back down to once a week, which is great. I mean, we'd like more again, but it was so busy that it was just mind-boggling.

SPEAKER_03

There's something everybody has a story, and there's something not just cathartic, but I'm gonna say powerful because it gives you ownership over your story to be able to tell it in your own voice. So thank you guys for holding space for others to be able to do that because as we know, it doesn't have to be a high-profile event, but when it is, and the stories, you know, they hit the the news, the media, and they're twisted for um likes and clicks and all of the interaction. The individual story, like that was a real human being who experienced that critical incident, and we're not even going to give them the opportunity to talk about how it was for them if they want to, and their experience going through that. So the fact that you guys are doing that and and the fact that you're in season three and and all of the interviews that you guys have done just shows you that there really is a need to be, you know, to allow people to tell their own story on their own terms.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. We found it very important to do that. You know, just let them open up and give us, you know, it's not just for us, it's for them to release a lot of that stuff that's boiling up inside of them and to just let it out. And it doesn't matter if you care, it's just for them to to release it.

SPEAKER_03

That actually brings me to my Next question. Perfect segue. Thank you. You were talking about, you know, you were at the point where you were bottling things up, and some of your podcast guests have been bottling things up for god knows how long. What were some physical signs, if you recall, that told you, or or even emotional, that told you that you were getting to the point where you were just keeping too much in?

SPEAKER_00

Um a lot of it I think it would had to be with like panic attacks.

SPEAKER_02

Panic attacks, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I'd held on to a lot of stuff for so many years, and the panic attacks started coming shortly before I was really I hadn't had any panic attacks ever in my entire life. But, you know, I had childhood traumas being abused as a child, not from my mother, but from her relationships, um and and being bounced around from house to house, foster home to foster home and just different things and you know, actually being in prison, seeing the things that I've seen in prison and just having to live in that life.

SPEAKER_02

And hearing other people's traumas within prison too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and going through treatments and hearing a lot of that stuff, you know, that that was compounding and there was no way for me to release it because obviously I can't talk about other people's stuff. That's not my business, right? But it was still inside here. Still built up inside me. And uh yeah, I started having really bad panic attacks. Um that started shortly before well, they were pretty mild before I was released from prison and I hadn't had any for a long time. And then having more struggles in life, they kept building and building and building. And then now obviously, you know, for an eye standard, I didn't get therapy and taking medications, which I hate doing, but it keeps me from having panic attacks.

SPEAKER_03

And you know what? Thank you for talking about that, because a lot of people before I had a panic attack, I was one of them. I used to think that panic attacks were all like in your head that you could just, you know, muscle your way through a panic attack, and then after having one, like you realize like these are very real and they just come on out of nowhere. It's so interesting though, that you said they they came on as you were approaching your release date, because I know, and I'm sure you guys have heard through all of your interviews, a lot of cops that I have spoken to, not just on the podcast, but in my work as a peer, as they approach retirement, they start to get a lot of panic attacks. And even shortly after their retirement, it's like they it's a huge life change and a huge identity change. And maybe they have no purpose or their whole life was their job. But it's it's interesting that um your panic attack started around the same time. And I'm I'm not obviously saying that you know it's the same thing, but just the parallels of kind of a loss of an identity in a way, and uh and needing a new sense of purpose um can trigger those. If that makes sense. I don't know if that it was a lot of rambling.

SPEAKER_00

It makes sense because I didn't know what I was gonna do when I got out. I had no job, I had no money. I mean, I saved up enough money to be able to afford to buy a car and all this stuff, but I had didn't have a job lined up, I didn't have a place to stay. Fortunately, I stayed with my stepdad for a while. And uh but it was a change, a new identity and I didn't know how I was gonna be perceived in the world. I thought I was just gonna be looked at as a convict. And sometimes, yeah, I do, but you know, when people look at me that way, I just say, Oh crap. Who are you to tell me? You're nobody, okay? You're nobody to me, right? Because I've already lived that life. Don't judge me. I've already dealt with that. The people that uh, you know, I hurt I made atonement to them, and that's said and done. I can't change the past. I can only change who I am today. So any any further judgments, it they just don't bother me at all. So I didn't know what was gonna happen. I had no clue. I had no no outlets, I had no guidance, I had no thoughts at the time. So it was all huge. What am I gonna do if I just how am I gonna live? What am I gonna do? I didn't want to be homeless. I didn't want to be standing on the side of the road with a sign in the freezing cold, you know. I just knew that I had to do something, but I didn't know what it was. I had no idea. And it was hard for you know, it's hard for a felon to get a job. It doesn't matter where you go, they always ask. And regardless of what your crime is, it doesn't matter. It's still hard to get a job as a felon. Because you're not trustworthy and they don't want to take a chance on you. And it doesn't matter the situation or whatever, unless it's one of those jobs that always hire convicts because they're just easier to get on, and you know, one of those easy jobs, which there are jobs out there that are like that, but they don't pay as good.

SPEAKER_03

So you're and that's another thing that can contribute to recidivism, I'm sure, because you work so hard while you're inside doing your time to reinvent yourself and rehabilitate yourself and create the version of you that you want to be when you get out. And I'm sure there's this element of anxiety like, I work so hard to be this person, but am I gonna be accepted by everybody, or are they just gonna see what's on paper and not who I am as a person?

SPEAKER_00

And primarily that's what they see is they they only see you as what is written on black and white, they don't see who you are today.

SPEAKER_03

Man, you're just shattering stigmas all over the place. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

You know, it's funny because um I like I said in in my podcast in the first episode when I talked about how we met, that was my initial reaction when we had started talking, we reconnected again, and I knew that he was interested in me. And he, you know, we we talked about getting together and stuff, and I reached out to my ex, who is a friend of his, and I was like, you know, here's what's going on. I think he likes me and whatever. And he was like, he's a good dude, you should give him a chance. And I'm like, but I don't want to date another felon, you know. And that was like my first go-to because I know I've dated several felons. Um, my picker was broken for a long time. And uh I just and so I know what they've had to go through. You know what I mean? Like it's hard to find a job and the stigma around, you know, the crimes and all that kind of stuff. And I was just like, I don't want to do that again. But having the encouragement from Mike, like he's a good guy, you really should give him a chance, and then just talking to him on the phone, and just this like, and I think this is why a lot of people gravitate gravitate to him for the podcast, too, is he just has this like calm demeanor. Um, he's I knew without even ever meeting him in person, I just felt like I could trust him, you know, and it was just this weird thing that I never felt before. And um, so but just like he was saying, that was my first go-to, like I just I don't want to, I don't want to date another felon, you know. So I I completely understand where he's coming from when he talks about that stigma that it has it's unfortunately always gonna be there because of the felony, but you know.

SPEAKER_03

But I do you gave him a chance, yes, and look at you now. Yes, but that I can see how that would contribute to isolation, even from I mean, it sounds like you had a lot of support from your brothers and your stepfather, but even from family members, sometimes, you know, even they don't want to associate with their own family because they have that label. So that just like furthers the isolation, and then you know, somebody gets out and they have nowhere to go, no purpose, nobody to go home to. So no wonder they end up back in prison, you know. Yeah, it sounds like you're trying to create the community that you didn't have.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and uh it seems like it's working.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it seems like it is.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and that's part of too what uh the the goal, the ultimate goal is with the Rico's Life Coaching Academy, is that to be able to go into the prisons as a life coach and be able to teach this curriculum of how to be successful, how this is what you do when you get out, this is the mindset that you need to have, this is you know, you need to find a purpose, you need to find your why. Um, and so we're developing this curriculum that he can take into the prison systems to stand in front of all those inmates and say, This is how I did it, and this is how you can do it.

SPEAKER_03

And who better to teach it than somebody who has the lived experience? Like there's nothing that anybody can tell him that you you know, I don't want to speak for you, Rico, but like there's nothing anybody can tell you that you haven't already been through.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And that's why it's very important. Um, because it's a lived experience and it's based on my experiences personally so all the things that we're putting into this course are based on what I've been through and what I'm doing now. Not saying that every inmate has to do exactly what I did, but there is a point to where you can find your path, your way in life to change and alter the course from being a thug or a drug dealer or you know, being a criminal to being a productive individual in society. A normal everyday person, whether you think it's uh you know, if you want to be a mechanic, you can go be a mechanic, or if it's something that you're passionate about, you can go do it. If you want to save juveniles, you can go talk to them, you can have a passion for helping kids, you know, that that sort of thing. Finding your passion, finding your why, like you said. And uh, you know, I have two whys, obviously. First responders and inmates.

SPEAKER_03

And both of them, you give both different group both groups equally hope uh in in a situation where if they're struggling, they may feel hopeless. And just reminding both groups, whether it was through your stepfather's struggles or your lived experience, that recovery is always possible, no matter what situation somebody might find themselves in, and like you said, you can't go and change the past, but you can start right now and change the future, and recovery is always possible.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

So, where can people connect with you guys if they want to support your podcast and your foundation? Uh, I know you're on the Fin Line Rock station, but where else can people connect with you?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, where do we begin? Um, so the podcast uh website is 8158podcast.com. Um, there's also the the uh foundation is on that website as well. You just click on donate to the foundation and it talks all about the foundation and the mission. You can donate there, you can do a one-time fee, you can do monthly. Um, and you can also donate to the podcast because as you know, as a podcaster, it costs money to you know pay for the things. Um so you know, we appreciate donations for the podcast as well. Um, we're on all the socials. Our uh 8150 podcast is is the handle for all the socials, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Um and then we have, of course, with the line rock station. Um, we just recently, um, about six weeks ago started our own radio station called Slightly Unhinged Radio, which is um niche for Gen X and Millennials. We play 1970 to 2010 music, and all of our DJs uh talk about nostalgia and things from back in the day. Um, so that's slightly unhinged radio.com. And we also have an app that's free that you can download on Apple or Google Play. Um, and of course, my podcast is the Beautifully Unplanned Podcast, which is on all the RSS feeds. Um, I also have some merch and there's a blog that goes along with it. You can go to beautifully unplanned podcast.com. Uh, let's see what else. Oh, we have another podcast that we just started that we have three episodes. It's called Beyond the Backroads Podcast, and it's on YouTube and also now on Spotify.

SPEAKER_00

And it's just based on folklore and uh urban legends.

SPEAKER_02

Local, local, local folklore mostly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, local urban legends that people have experienced.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, not stuff that you would find in the mainstream, you know, just local stuff. Um, and so we have three episodes of that. And then we just um actually started with a different radio station, a guy out of Canada. It's called Timeless Rock Radio. Um, and we DJ on there together actually Monday through Friday, six to ten Eastern.

SPEAKER_01

Um my daughter popped in.

SPEAKER_02

Um so we DJ on there Monday through Friday, six to ten Eastern time. Timeless Rock Radio, the link is on their Facebook page. Um, it's not anything that's like timelessrockradio.com or anything. It's like a stream link. So I don't know what it is, but um, yeah, so we have our hands on a little bit of everything.

SPEAKER_03

I will definitely link everything so that people can find you easier. And thank you for mentioning slightly unhinged because I wanted to talk about that and I totally forgot. I didn't realize that was something the two of you created.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, that's ours.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. The music there is great too.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

I love it. Yeah, that's a merch. It's audio segment.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the merch, yep.

SPEAKER_03

I love it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, so that's slightly unhinged radio.com, and there's tons of merch on there. All the merch goes to support the station. Um, we have like 8,000 songs or something crazy on there. And then right now, um, as of right now, we have 12 DJs um that run different hours, different days of the week, and we're working on adding a couple of more. So we've been very, very busy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's amazing. Slowly integrating the DJs because we just got them all pretty much at once.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, we we actually found them at the mental health summit.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, wow, that's great.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So we've got two that are launching this week, two next week. Um, and then as of right now, one the following week. And also I forgot to mention because that we just started this and I haven't advertised it yet. We just started a media network. So it's a slightly unhinged media network. And what we're planning on doing is it's going to be a hub for podcasts to live. So what we're planning on doing is having people pay a monthly membership to come into the media network with either an existing podcast or a new podcast. And we will help them with the tools and resources to make that podcast successful, put it out on the RSS feeds, monetize it, learn how to edit, put music to it, all that kind of stuff. And everything will be on our media network. So we do all the advertising, marketing, ad sponsorships, everything.

SPEAKER_00

That's incredible. Let them have the ad sponsors to go with their stuff.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So they'll pay a monthly fee. And then when we get ad sponsors, we'll do like a revenue share for the ad sponsors as well.

SPEAKER_03

That's amazing. I'm definitely going to link these because I want people to connect with you on all of the platforms. Seriously, because I really do I wish you guys all the success and all the work that you're doing because it's so important and it's also fun. I mean, Thinline Rock Station, Slightly Unhinged Radio, there's just something about music that helps you cope and transports you and brings back hopefully good memories and a lot of dopamine and serotonin and all of the things. Right. You know, so it's something that we need. Right. Um, one last question before we go. I always like to end on a high note. So this is a question for each of you. What is your favorite karaoke song?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, mine would be uh Jason LD. Try that in a small town.

SPEAKER_02

Well, like I told him before, if I can ever get him to karaoke, I'm gonna make him sing it. Uh but uh I actually chur I don't like personally singing karaoke. I like to go to karaoke and watch other people, and I sound really good in my headphones, but I'm a terrible singer. Um so I prefer to do duets if I do karaoke. And my favorite duet is Cherokro and Kid Rock, Picture.

SPEAKER_03

Love it. That's a good one.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Both great songs. So you can watch him sing, try that in a small town, and then he can stay, and you can go back up and sing picture.

SPEAKER_01

Picture. But that's not Pick Rock.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, you can be Cherokro, it's 2026, all things go. Thank you guys so much for being here. This was a great interview. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, of course. And thank you guys again for tuning in and listening. In case you haven't heard today, you are loved, you matter, and you are not alone.

unknown

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you so much for stepping outside the line with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, consider sharing with a friend or to your social media network. And if you do, please tag me so I can reach out and thank you. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are personal opinions, not reflective of the host or guest department. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. If you're struggling with your mental health, please speak to personal health. Resources are available. You matter, and you are not alone.