Breaking Down Our Ryan Gosling Interview on Project Hail Mary

In this episode of Curiosity Theory, Dr. Dakotah Tyler and Justin Shaifer react to their interview with Ryan Gosling about Project Hail Mary and unpack the science, storytelling, and bigger themes behind the film.

They discuss what makes Rocky such an effective alien character, why collaboration sits at the heart of the story, how the movie handles space science, and why hopeful sci-fi can matter so much in the real world. Along the way, they also reflect on the interview itself and what stood out most from Gosling’s perspective on the film.

Visit our Merch Store
 https://www.curiositytheorypod.com/merch

Join our Patreon
 https://www.patreon.com/c/CuriosityTheory

Follow the show @curiositytheorypod

Hosted by Dr. Dakotah Tyler and Justin Shaifer

Stay curious.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back. Curiosity Theory, your co-host, Dr.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Dakota Tyler, astrophysicist, science communicator, lover of sci-fi, here with my dog. Also, lover of sci-fi, Justin Schaefer, also known as Mr. Fascinate, co-host of Curiosity Theory. And we have a very special episode today. Very, very cool stuff.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

You may have noticed the last thing we released was an interview with Brian Gosling for the upcoming movie Project Hail Mary. Today we're going to do a reaction to that interview and dig some more uh into some of the ideas, some of the things that we talked about. Anything else?

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Yeah, man. Talk about some of the science, talk about some of the philosophies that inspired us, and maybe even some of what it's like to, you know, have an interview with somebody like Ryan Gosling.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yeah. So hope you enjoy it. Stay tuned right now. Hey, thanks everybody for joining us again. Curiosity Theory here. I am your co-host, Dr. Dakota Tyler, astrophysicist and science communicator here with my co-host.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Justin Schaefer, also known as Mr. Fascinate, the other half of Curiosity Theory. And we are joined here with a very, very special guest, the one and only Ryan Gosling himself, here to talk to us about a sci-fi film that we've been nerding out about for the past, I don't know, we've been nerding about the book for a long time, the past couple weeks. Big time. Project Hail Mary. Ryan, uh, it's a pleasure to have you on. This is a fantastic movie. Uh kind of a tearjerker a little bit, man. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here. Yeah, man. Um, so let's get into it. I one of the things that we really nerd out about on our show uh is science fiction. Like Dakota and I are both huge sci-fi nerds. And one of the things that we always talk about as a critique of this sci-fi. I didn't say nerd out a lot a lot, understand this point, is that nerd out. I want him to know we're not like regular ass journalists, not run-of-the-mill guys. They kind of just look like humans with costumes on. A lot of times they actually are that. Yeah. Uh, and a reason for that, from my understanding, is because you know, a lot of films in Hollywood, they're like, well, we need to make an alien that feels relatable, that people can connect with. Uh, and so, you know, that's why we can't make things that are exotic or imaginative. But the this is a huge exception, right? Project Hail Mary uh had Rocky, a super cool alien. But I think what really brought that to life was your ping-pong interaction with Rocky as an actor. And I'm just curious of like how you got to that headspace, man, of being able to channel that lovability and relatability with an a truly alien alien. Pause it real quick.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Uh so like I think that this is a great question. We've talked about this a lot. Um you know, we assume IPalism, we assume that the aliens are gonna have two eyes and like hands and fingers and stuff. And a part of the assumption outside of media, I think, is because that's what humans are, and like that's these are the things that allowed us to be special or whatever. And so oftentimes people will assume that that's what other aliens are gonna look like, but that's like there's no guarantee that that's the case, right? It's like all of life on earth is just stemming from the things that existed before it. And if you start with something different or take a different branch a hundred million years ago or whatever, you may end up with something completely different, or impose different selective pressures, which are inevitable on a different planet, exactly. So you can end up with something completely different. Uh, but then you bring up a great point that's like in media, and they took the guys talked about this in uh James Cameron in Avatar, it's like they didn't want to make something that was too alien because you really need the audience to like like certain characters and like root for certain characters, uh so you want to try to invoke that uh human likeness to you know get the emotional connection. Right. But this is a movie with an alien that's like silicon-based, maybe it's like rock. Literally, his name's Rocky. Yeah, it's a rock. So I thought that that was a really good question.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Yeah, you know, another sci-fi movie that we talk about a little bit on the show that I think does a great job of this is Arrival. Uh it it, you know, again, found a new lane to form, help people form a connection with these aliens and like their purpose. And uh, you know, it would they were very alien to us. Extremely alien. You know, I think if someone is clever with script writing, and if you have a good actor, like in this case, I think Ryan Gossing did an amazing job actually, again, like playing off of this puppet that was Rocky, you can really get the buy-in from the audience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Excellent. Um, which is yeah, so like that's where your question is coming from. Let's go ahead and see what what Ryan's answer was.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

He's here in the hotel, by the way. I wish he was here in this room doing this interview. I kid you not, he's in the presidential suite. Oh, dang. Oh, seriously. Yeah. But uh, I'm doing all the press. So that just gives you a little glimpse into what it's like to work with him. He's a he's a bit of a diva.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

He doesn't speak our language. Yeah, he's like deep in the bit.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

He's a bit, you know, he's high maintenance. He has uh he has five like glam squad. That's like five puppeteers that dress like five glam squad.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Like, bro, right that was a great by the way. You asked a great question. That was a great fucking question. I can imagine, man. It Rocky kind of has like a uh probably a more bubble at first, and now it's kind of more tight. I can imagine it's almost invisible at this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, he's been working out a lot since he's he knew in LA.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yeah, Rocky's been lifting. Has Rocky seen Rocky?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, he's all swole. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Has Rocky seen Rocky?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Rocky, I made him watch all the Rockys and the Creeds. I took him through the whole journey.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

He said that because we're black.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Nah, he but uh at the same time, hold on, pause it for a second. So he's like immediately starts doing this bit, but at the same time, you know, contractually, he probably has to do these every day, all day, for like weeks leading up to the movie. And so, you know, the chances he probably already been doing this for like 10 hours or something. Yeah, so I appreciate that he's like trying to find like something and keep the energy up. Um, but it also seemed like, and I guess we'll see this throughout, he's like hitting his talking points for the movie that they like tell them to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Yeah, which yeah, I mean, I I I get it. Like when you're an actor in that position and you're doing like a bunch of interviews all day, shit is exhausting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

It was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

No, that's cool, man. I mean, so Rocky, you and Rocky are best buds at this point, man. How does it do you feel like that's a interesting relationship that you all have in a in a unique way? I mean, like, do you you guys have like a kind of a couple's therapy thing going on? I mean, there's a lot to unpack after that movie.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah, you know, I think um, well, I was um, I I love what you were saying earlier, just in the sense that I do think he's a kind of I think he's look, he's the best alien friend you're ever gonna have, but I I do think he's like a a uh like a a very credible um uh vision of of what this kind of shit might actually be like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

I mean Andy Weir is you know, you you could argue if you don't have a it feels like we're interviewing a model, low-key, who's just like is like trying to say something better than you don't have a story.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

He dubs love okay, bro. You know, he made everything so so hard, and that's what's so beautiful about it. And by the end of the film, it's it's the the connection is so hard-earned. And I think the choice that that we made to make Rocky a practical uh a physical element in the scene um and not a visual effect, you know, it it it created so many problems in its own right, you know. We had to cut holes in the ship for him and the Rocketeers to fit into and things he can do and can't do, and things that worked and didn't not didn't work, and it was a it was a struggle, but but that's the relationship in the film. I mean, they can't be in the same atmosphere, they don't speak the same language. So I I actually do think that that's pretty cool, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:29

They had the opportunity to just CGI the rock stuff, but he's saying and he called him a Rocketeer, but it's a puppeteer of Rocky, which is also I think like kind of a cool thing. Yeah, cool player on the rock. And so you imagine that there are people that are controlling this rock alien, and they're having to like cut holes on the back side of the scene so that they can like you know, hand do whatever they were doing with it, and that that presents like an additional challenge, right? So it's like I actually really respect that from an acting perspective because it's not just that he's not engaging with any people, right? He's engaging with a non-human-like alien form that's being controlled by like a gang of people behind him, right? And yeah, like I really respect the the job that actors can do.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Yeah, you know, but I think you know, from his perspective, playing off of something like that feels a little easier than playing off of a computer-generated image because it feels like this moving thing has sentience in its own way. Yeah, it's like there, yeah, yeah. And like in the movie, the way that Rocky was expressing themselves. Um He calls them him. Yeah, Rocky, Rocky did have kind of a dude vibe. Did he? Yeah, and which I thought was interesting too. But the way that Rocky was expressing him.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

But what does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Like Rocky like had a great like Rocky.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

No, some people would describe the ultimate like dude bro vibe is the pile of fucking rocks.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah, dumb as a fucking pile of rock. So Which Rocky was a scientist, I believe, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:02

For his people in this.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

So yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like a he knows shit. He's like a researcher. Rocky was an engineer. He's an engineer. He's an engineer. Um, but he had somebody back home that was.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

Dumb as a pile of rocks is actually pretty damn offensive to Rocky. To Rocky and his people.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Yeah, but then he he had like someone back home that I think you know that they kind of allude to in the story. Ah, the old rock. But it almost seemed like the missus, like the way that they were talking about it. Yeah, he just had like more of a dude bro kind of vibe. Really? Yeah, interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

But but he was an endearing character in the movie, right? So you have to like think about well, what types of things because he doesn't look like a human. So what types of things can we do that make it endearing and relatable? And that's gonna, by definition, almost default back to like behaviors that we can relate to. Right. Because you can almost rela um imagine uh a rock species of alien having um like mannerisms and like what's cute and endearing for them literally is alien to us, it's foreign. Like what does a cute pile of rocks act do from our perspective?

SPEAKER_03 11:07

So, one of the super interesting parts of the movie was that Rocky Um basically when they sleep, they like watch each other sleep. And like that was a cultural thing. So, because of Rocky's species, like when they go to sleep, they can't wake up easily. Like they're completely vulnerable, they're unable to like, but you can imagine, like, if they're in some kind of whatever their version of the wilderness is, if they're sleeping and completely vulnerable, they need their partner or whoever else is there with them to just watch over them. Does something prey on the rocks? Uh, I guess maybe bigger rocks. I don't know. They didn't really talk about their natural predators or anything. Yeah. But I guess like this is a cultural thing that has evolved. Maybe they had natural predators earlier in their time. Yeah. And this is a cultural thing that evolved that like I'm gonna like be right here with you while you sleep. Yeah. Or or like even if we're friends, not you know, we we're gonna sleep really close together. Yeah. And so, you know, like Ryan Gossing's character was like, dude, this guy doesn't have any perception of boundaries, you know, which is like personal space. We also know people that are like that. You know what I mean? So it was kind of like relatable and funny in that way. Yeah, it was definitely like a cultural disconnect. But then eventually you see Ryan Gossing's character kind of like open being becoming more open to it and like adapting, and like ultimately like they watch each other sleep, and it be kind of kind of becomes this endearing part of it. Yeah, yeah. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

All right, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

A lot of trying, a lot of failing. And as we were telling that story, we were also experiencing that in the filming. So you know, you really do create your you it's the life starts to mirror art. Yeah. And it forms a connection because of the struggle.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Yeah, yeah. So, Ryan, I'm a scientist, and a big theme in science is how like curiosity uh overcomes fear. And I'm curious from your perspective, you know, you're you're kind of used to playing the lone hero character where maybe you need to go out and save society or save the world, save humanity. And then there's like this other class of movies that are more about like first contact and that sort of thing. But this this sort of blends those two together. And I wonder on your side, did you feel like there was a little bit of a different preparation to be the hero that also needs to collaborate with this mysterious entity as opposed to just kind of like doing it all yourself?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

First of all, so cool that you could just say I'm a scientist so casually like that.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

That was that was putting that in my resume too, by the way. So smooth. Um, this was different in every uh pause that, please.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah, yeah. Pause that.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Uh, so everybody heard that Ryan Gosling just said that it I'm so cool.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Yeah. All right. Well, he said it was so cool that you mentioned you were a scientist.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Everybody heard that. I heard that. Cloud, you heard that. Can I get a nod? I'm getting nods from Cloud. I heard that too. Ryan Gosling said that you're so goddamn cool. Okay. I mean, I mean, the other thing.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

I mean, run it back. No, no, no. The other thing I actually noticed though, before we run it back, Cloud. No, no, no. Don't really run it back. The other thing that I noticed is that you mentioned you were an astrophysicist. You said, My name is Dr. Dakota Tyler. I'm an astrophysicist in the intro.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

So you also casually mentioned you were a scientist there, and it kind of like Oh, did I? Yeah, when you first introduced Curiosity Theory. Nah, bro. I don't did I? 100% did. We have the evidence. Yeah. Yeah, bro. You know, I'm just he kind of ignored you that time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Well, he so he like laughed a little bit, but I don't know what it was that was. I think he probably just hopped in with us and he didn't know like exactly uh giving him a lot of grace. Yeah. No, I mean, um, he thinks I'm really cool. I think he has great opinions. Well, I guess we'll see. We'll see how it continues. Yeah, yeah. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

That was that was putting that in my resume too, by the way. So smooth.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Oh man, you really yeah. This was different in every way.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

You know, I've played uh the more traditional hero, uh, you know, had to be stoic, someone Oh, can we pause it real quick?

SPEAKER_04 15:06

So a movie uh um that I have in mind recently that I re-watched was uh Blade Runner, the newest Blade Runner, which it came out several years ago. Um, and he is the protagonist in that and uh amazing, amazing movie. Um in a lot of the movies that I've seen him in, he is like what's Blade Runner about, like just quick Oh Blade Runner, so Blade Runner came out a long time ago, Harrison Ford. It was like this far-off future where there are a bunch of androids and basically some of the androids uh uh that they made were like ultra human-like, like even too human-like. And you know, that call there was like an uprising and there was like a a revolution and this sort of thing, and they like made adjustments so that the newer models were more robotic, like whatever the they didn't have like the special consciousness that we have as as humans, right? And so there were these blade runners that were um employed that were modern robots that are like good at following directions or whatever, and they were tasked with going and eliminating the remaining uh sentient generation of uh androids. And I may be butchering that a little bit, uh, but I think that that's pretty much the gist of it. And so you're like following the story, and um, so the newest Blade Runner that uh and it has a number, I forget what the year is. Um maybe I just look that up real quick.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Okay. While you're doing that, excuse me. While you're doing that, another movie that uh Ryan Gosling appeared in and played this heroic role was First Man. He played Neil Neil Armstrong in that as well.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Yeah, another space role. Yeah, and then Neil Armstrong, obviously, first man on the moon's like the the main protagonist.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yeah, I would tell you about when I met Buzz Aldrin. I feel like I might have told you that story.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Uh and he was being ra he was saying some racist shit against Chinese people.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah, yeah. It was um at the Explorers Club annual dinner. He was over 90 years, well in his 90s. I think I think I mean he's I think he's like 95 now. Yeah, probably 91, 92 then. He's from a different time. Yeah, so he gets on stage in front of 3,000 people and talks about how all these innovations are happening, but we gotta keep the Chinese out of space. Yeah, you could kind of hear a pin drop when he was talking, and nobody checked this man. But Buzz Aldrin was. He can start booing him. Ooh. Buzz Aldrin's second person on the moon, by the way, just for context. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Um, okay, so Blade Runner 2049 is the sequel, and Ryan Gosling is one of the new Blade Runners in that time. But it's a great movie, phenomenal movie. But it's very much this he's a lone detective figuring these things out, um, you know, that isn't really working with anybody. Very much of a lone wolf thing. And um this is like a very different thing, right? He's like a science teacher in this movie, he's not like a physical, he's not like the John Wick style character.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

He's not Ken from Barbie either. He's not Ken. Dude's got range, man.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

Crazy range, crazy range.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

All right.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

One that in some way knew that they were uh you know destined for this. This character's the opposite, right? He's he puts the knot in astronaut. He never had any they gave him that line to say never wanted to be, and yet finds out that the fate of the universe is in his hands. And um again, like not to play talk too much about the meta nature of the script, but I do think it's part of the secret sauce of the film, is that this mission of making this movie, this book, into a film just felt impossible as well. You know, when I when I got the manuscript before it was published, I I had no context for it. I nobody had read it. I mean, that I knew, I didn't know what it was about. And so it was given to me in the time when movie theaters were closing and uh film productions were shutting down, and here is this the most epic film uh story that I'll ever probably be a part of. And it felt like you know, like a Hail Mary in its own right. So it sort of started from the inception of the idea was just like how do we achieve this, you know? And and and we're going to do it through putting together the best team possible. I mean, it had I had to get Lord and Miller, I had to have Amy Pascal's help, we had to get Drew Goddard, we had to get Greg Frazier to shoot it, we had to get Paul Lambert to do the VFX. It was just this like say something.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Yeah, yeah. Pause a real pause. I mean, yeah, I mean, I I I appreciate You know what I can appreciate is someone that gives props because you know, when you're the front man, yeah, all attention goes to you, all the credibility goes to you. Ryan Gossing did a great job in the film, it's a good film, and it's like, well, there's like all these other people that can go into this stuff. A lot of times, people that I don't want to say work harder, but have like more decision making over what actually ends up happening that don't get their shine. Yeah. So I can appreciate that. It just did feel like kind of a departure from where we were trying to go.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Yeah. Reminder that the question there was, you're used to playing this like lone wolf. This is a guy who now has to collaborate with this alien. What was the preparation there? So I also understand why he went there with the answer, though, because it's like it wasn't just him, the nature of the movie was him needing to find all these people to collaborate with. He mentions the fact that he got the script uh sort of like during COVID, and it was a time where everything was more challenging, and it kind of like felt like a Hail Mary in its own right. So I do appreciate the answer like from the um preparation side. Are you good? You need to blow your nose or something? You keep like snorting into the mic.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Maybe I'll take a second deep.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Like mostly just gonna blow your nose or something, bro.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah, but before I do that, I'm also noticing that you know you're uh you're a little bit more endearing towards him after he gave you those props, like at least from the from the beginning. Uh completely unbiased. This is my objective opinion.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

I'm a scientist. You're unbiased. I'm a scientist. You can check my workout, you can check my bias. Your workout? Like you can check my workout, you can check my workout too. If you want to really get put to shame, you can check my workout. I got some videos I can send you. But you can also check my science out. Well, maybe not. You can also check my science out peer reviews. Like I'm an objective, I'm an objective guy. I get it in.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

You're saying like the proverbial you I get it in.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

Take it how you want it.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Yeah. If you want to take it, it's on you. You went there. I can I can take it all, man. Hey, that's what we that's what I heard. I'm gonna go ahead and uh go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

I'll talk to the people here for a second. All right. Nah, this was um this was a it was a cool opportunity to get to talk with him about this. And um like like I was saying before, he you know, he was has to like do these all the time. And you know, Justin and I knew that going into this interview, so we were trying to ask questions that were not the typical questions that he would get. Um so we we did put some time into thinking about thoughtful questions that may be enjoyable for for him to answer. I think he gave uh pretty good answers. I mean, objectively true that he said I was like pretty goddamn cool and that shit was like lit. I was like, damn, you know what? Like I don't even think about it like that because I don't even think about myself like that. You know, I'm just a you know, I'm just a guy out here with a telescope, I'm just a nerd looking at the stars, man. It's nothing, it's not even that deep. But then when you have, you know, like you know, somebody like Ryan Gossing, he's like, damn, bro, like you might be one of the most lit motherfuckers around, and it's like, God damn, like, you know what? You might have just cooked. Oh, here's Justin. Yeah. So I was just telling them about the interview and stuff and some of our thought process. Uh it went into asking our questions. I I literally didn't hear any of it. So yeah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Uh wait, wait, wait. So before you stepped away, you were were we did we were you saying something?

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, we were.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Oh, let's go ahead. Um suddenly it felt like the film, you know, it was like we were gonna assemble this team and try and do this thing that that felt impossible, but it was so it felt important to us to to try. So we just channeled that. I think that's what's so unique about Andy's work is that he gives you this opportunity to pivot from these dystopian future ideas that feel so bleak and inevitable. And he he gives you this opportunity to say, maybe the future is not something to fear.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

I love that. Oh, can we pause that? I really love that um that the future isn't something the fear is something to figure out, like to come into the issues, the challenges with a curiosity because there is a path forward. It's like you don't know what it is. I feel like that's heavy just in life. Yeah, right. I I I know myself, I've had these periods of uncertainty. Shit, right when I was about to graduate, I didn't know like exactly what I was gonna do the next. I didn't know if I was gonna go into industry or just go all in on the sideline stuff. Obviously, we ended up uh starting the podcast, and it's like it feels heavy, right? Because it's like you don't know what you're walking into, but that the future is not something to fear. It is unknown, but it's not something to fear, and you can always figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

I feel like that's particularly important for people right now. I think people feel really anxious about and probably pessimistic about the future. You know, we always talk about chat we're cooked and all these other comments that are in response to you know what AI can do or other tech tools, and yeah, this feels like an empowered perspective. And that's what I have appreciated about both this movie and The Martian, actually, is that the protagonists were both scientifically trained and also were like, you know what, I'm gonna use curiosity and critical thinking and I'm gonna figure this out. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

And let's go that sense of of that shift um is so inspiring, you know, even as a filmmaker, because you know, it was a daunting task to make this film, but I I tried to learn from the character and just turn my anxiety into curiosity and and let that drive me. And and and and and here we are. And uh I'm getting to talk to you about it today, you know, so it it works.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

I uh I like what you said there that you you kind of learn from the character. Um, and is there maybe like a lesson that you feel like is important for just people to hear uh that you learned from the character? Like maybe some quality or characteristic that would be good if you know everybody took on a little bit more of.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And we're capable of more than we think that we are. And oftentimes it takes someone to believe in you in order to discover that. And, you know, Strat believes in Ryland before he ever believes in himself. But of course, it's it's it's it's in there, he's just not aware of it. And I think, you know, even though this is you you you go to another galaxy, you make an alien best friend, and you save the world, it it doesn't feel escapist. It feels ultimately like a reminder of what we're capable of as human beings.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

You pause that real quick. I think that that was lit.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:01

That that that being the lesson that he thinks people should take from the character in the movie is that you're capable of way more than than you know. Uh for a little bit and without a spoiler, uh, he wakes up and doesn't know where he is, but he's on a spaceship, and he slowly figures out that it's basically up to him to save uh humanity. Right. And there's like an alien he doesn't know about, there's a problem that he doesn't know about, and he ultimately has to go through and like solve that puzzle, and it's so powerful. And we talk about this stuff all the time, you know. Like for me personally, there was a point in time when I wouldn't have believed you if you said that I was gonna be an astrophysicist. There was a point in time when I was in community college taking calculus that I didn't think I was gonna be able to learn that, which is like step one of that of that path. And it's only eventually, it's only like after this sort of insurmountable amount of completed tasks that uh you start to have the confidence that you have the competence to do the thing. And it's like if you count yourself out in the beginning, I almost feel like it's okay if you don't even know or think you can do it if you don't stop. Because that can grow, uh, and that can come about. And it that that shit just hits really, really heavy. That like very much resonates with me that you are capable of so much more than you currently think you are.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Yeah, I think it's powerful, man, and thematically, you know, without trying to spoil too much of the movie, uh this idea of like you said, like wakes up not knowing who he really is, and almost kind of like giving yourself a clean slate to redefine who you are, can be a powerful part of the process of learning what you're capable of and understanding that in a new way.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

Yeah, yeah. Totally resonates, man. Totally resonates.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Yeah, I think that that's a a beautiful way to put it, man. Like I, you know, like Dakota, who also teaches science, you know, I've I've been a STEM educator for a while. Uh so you know, we're kind of both able to see ourselves in the character that you know you depicted, and you know, kind of their reluctance to, I think, you know, jump into the fray on certain aspects in life. Um, but I'm curious about you know where you went, like what place you went to uh to channel that character. Did you have like a favorite science teacher growing up or was it something like that?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Do you know what made a big impact on me was Val Kilmer and Real Genius? I didn't know what that was. I didn't know what that was either. Um, I love people like Segan and uh you know Brian Cooper.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

He said Segan. I know, but he said Segan.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I I don't pretend to understand uh any of it, but I'm buy it. And it's yeah, I love being around people that do. And uh I think it's really exciting to be a part of a of of a of a time in in in the history where the universe is is is very looking at itself, and uh there's so much space exploration going on, and the conversation about whether there's life in the universe has seemed to shift from is there life to um just exactly where it is and when we'll find it. And that was pretty tapped in beautiful for a film like this to arrive, which sort of evolves the conversation from E.T., you know, where uh it's not, you know, you have to go to him, he doesn't come to you, and the scientists are the good guys, not the bad guys.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Right. And I I think it's a powerful narrative that I think people need a reminder of today. I think as with us both being science educators, you know, one of the most powerful tools that I think a big sci-fi concept like this does is it sparks the imagination of young people. So people that watch Project Hail Mary, just like they saw The Martian or Interstellar, are gonna grow up and one day want to become scientists because of how you depicted that character on screen. You know, and I think uh, you know, as I'm kind of looking into doing more creative endeavors in the science fiction universe, I'm like, this is why I want to do it, because it feels like the first line of education is inspiration. And that's precisely what you all are doing with Project Helm here.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

Yeah, you pause that real quick. Well, thank you so much. You know, that's something uh that's a great question by you. And you know, it's something that we talk about a lot, comes up a lot, and it's like people you in a way you're getting educated by everything that you come into contact with, right? Like your brain is getting trained, it's actually changing from every conversation you have, from every movie that you see, from everything that you have happened to you throughout your life, right? And so that's all learning. And something that people really, really enjoy is you know, these things in media, whether that's short form, particularly long form, or like storytelling. And, you know, I something I've taken away from you is like how powerful sci-fi is as a means for not only education, but inspiration and like shaping what people can even possibly imagine, right? Can even creatively think about in the future and how powerful something like this could be, where you know, the aliens out there, it's not Independence Day where they show up and kill everybody, right? Which is very much reminiscent of this um this attitude of like people invading, right? Uh, and they're different and they're gonna come and they're gonna destroy all of what we have that's so precious. It's like, no, and this uh somebody, a science teacher, right? Somebody who's not he's not um in the military, he's not going out to like conquer shit or take over the universe, he's going out to try and solve a problem and then meeting somebody else, and it's a very different thing. And at the same time, you're trying to like troubleshoot fixing what's wrong with um, you know, whatever the problem is, the star, and also learning how to communicate with this thing. And can we actually quickly collaborate and work together and like put aside the fear of like, oh shit, like you're you're somebody that I need to be scared of, something like that. Yeah. And this movie, I think it just does that. It just presents, like, yeah, you you know, you're going out solving the problem, you don't know who this alien is, it's not very human-like, and you can immediately just start working together and collaborating. You don't have to go through like this military defense checklist.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

But I think it's powerful, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

And you and and in in that situation, you know, you really couldn't do any of that stuff. Yeah. So it kind of reminds me of this notion that I guess it's something I feel like I've never really said out loud, but it's a thought that I've had about the parallels between the way that a scientist approached their science and the way that an entrepreneur approaches entrepreneurship. You know, like I've obviously been trained as or I've been trained as a scientist and then lived as an entrepreneur. And it's kind of like I feel like I take a lot of the same philosophies and apply them in both places, you know? Critical thinking, uh developing a hypothesis, testing the hypothesis, and then iterating on that to start to refine your research process and get closer to an answer of what works.

SPEAKER_05 34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Yeah. Um, and yeah, it kind of all feels like uh yeah, sci-fi kind of helps to light that spark. I think for for people to understand like what can be possible in their own lives. And another thing that we talked about is Afrofuturism and how that's a whole part of this has completely untapped. You know, there's like the specifically like science-based projections into the future where black people have a cultural influence, um, but we're in a technologically advanced super society. I don't know. I feel like that's an exciting lane that really no one has tapped into at a very high level.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Absolutely. And there is, and like change is coming, it's going to happen, it's going to be exponential, it's going to be uncertain. And the only thing that we need, and the dystopian outcomes are not the only things that we need to consider, right? Right. Also, like solutions. A solution-oriented way of thinking is like, well, how could this go positively? It's important to understand how it could go wrong, yeah, and to not be caught by surprise there, because this is something that you've you've been thinking about and aware of. But it's like just as important uh to understand how things could potentially go right. And if nobody is thinking about that, uh, even if the ideas being put out there are unrealistic, right? There's still like a gravitational pull that pushes you in the direction of something that may be great.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Right. And hope is one of the most important ideals that I think we have to cling on to as humans. That's kind of what keeps us moving forward. Agreed. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah. Something that was definitely, you know, the real dream is to want to inspire a younger generation to to join STEM programs and to feel like, you know, this is something that that that not that again, like that the future is not something to fear, but but to be figured out and that we're capable of amazing things, and that, you know, human beings are always and have always made the impossible possible. It's it's kind of our thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Yeah, man. No, a hundred percent agree with that. Uh any any fun outtakes from set that uh like interesting, kind of like faux pas with the costumes and stuff. It seemed like you all had a pretty complicated production going on. Anything that cool that you think would be worth sharing?

SPEAKER_01 36:57

It was such a mind-bender because you know, the ship has to operate in two forms of gravity. So there's there's so there's it's basically two ships in one. So we had to build two ships essentially. Uh, and you know, the scientific instruments don't work in zero gravity, so then they have to, we have to create gravity and we do that with a centrifuge.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Oh, you got that right.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Yeah. Oh, we're gonna pause it real quick. Yeah, so um just to expand a little bit on what he's saying, you think about being up in space. A lot of times you see in movies, people are, you know, there's ships in space, and it seems like gravity works fine, right? Everybody's uh standing on the ground and walking around, but not like in space, you're not you're no longer um under the like gravitational acceleration from being on Earth, right? So you would be floating around, kind of like you see astronauts in the ISS. Yeah, so everything on the ISS that isn't strapped down was gonna float. So you that that is like very important. Instruments are gonna be like bolted into the wall, whatever, like whatever it is. When the astronauts sleep, they strap themselves in to the wall or the ceiling, or you know what I'm saying? Wherever it is. And um there's a way that you could simulate this though. And this is one of the big takeaways from Einstein in general relativity, is that there's basically no difference between you standing on a planet that has uh 9.8 uh meters per second squared ex gravitational acceleration, which is 1G, basically the gravity we experience on Earth, and being in a ship that's accelerating at 9.8 uh meters per second squared. So if we blindfolded you and put you in a spaceship that was accelerating at that exact same acceleration, and we blinded you and put you on Earth, you wouldn't know the difference. You would not know if you were standing on Earth in your bedroom or if you were on a spaceship accelerating with that same speed. So one way that you could simulate that gravitational force that you feel on Earth is to somehow accelerate your body in space. So you don't need to be on a ship going in a straight line, you could also spin in a circle. Uh, and so that's what he's talking about, the centrifugal. It's like a a pseudo-force that you experience if you're rotating and spinning, then you're kind of being accelerated by the wall because you don't just go off into space. So it's kind of like pushing, pushing your body back towards the center of the ship.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah, the centrifugal force, uh, which I think is is super interesting. And even a centrifuge is another tool that's used in science labs on a smaller scale to decant like solutions and chemistry and things like that, too.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

Yeah, centrifuge, right? Yeah, you spin things out and you can like separate them if they have different uh masses.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Yeah, there's such a cool scene from the movie that I just don't want to spoil for everybody, but it it really shows how the concept of centrifugal centrifugal force with an alien ship can can even be taken to the next level. So yeah, it's it's cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

And um obviously then once Rocky gets involved, like he's in a different different atmosphere, and and you know, there's it's just two of everything. And it just it just made so much it was so perfect that that we had two directors, you know, because it just it just perfectly embodied the sort of um this movie's do always doing uh it's walking and chewing gum at the same time or or or falling down and and chewing gum, you know. And and that's another thing I think that you know, I've done films before uh uh where I did zero G, and it's always it's just so challenging to make it seem realistic. It just never, even in other films, I never feel like it feels real. It feels like harnesses. And you do the best you can, but it's um the physics are just hard to beat, and it's just somehow you you can smell a rat even if you don't know exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

Yeah, you will pause this real quick. So this actually reminds me of the people who say that NASA like fakes space propaganda with like astronauts in space, and it's like a green screen, and they're like faking it or something, or they fake the footage on the moon. Um incredibly, incredibly difficult to do to simulate a lower amount of gravity than we experience on Earth or this like zero G apparent thing that happens in space. And he's kind of pointing out there that uh what they do in movies, they're using like harnesses, they're like trying to hack it some way, and it ri and it usually does not look quite right. Uh and you know, the idea that this was something that cinematically they had perfected in the 60s, 70s are pretty far-fetched. Um, that modern actors are like, nah, this doesn't really look right. Um, you can kind of tell that you know something's not not quite there. So I thought that that was a little, that was kind of poignant because you know, from his perspective, he just wants it to look real, right? He's not thinking about like um, you know, could we fake this and like trick the public or something like that? He just wants it to look to look real. And being like recognizing that that's a challenge that they have to this day, I think is uh kind of an interesting, interesting point. Yeah, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

And I thought that the hack on that for this would be that that he's he's bad at space. So he it doesn't have to be elegant, it can be inelegant. And um, I watched a lot of chaplin films, uh specifically modern times, where he's caught in the gears, uh, and I thought we tried to design sequences in zero G that felt like that, so that they were you know entertaining and and and and and balletic, but not elegant. And the irony is that when the astronauts who came to advise us came to set, I was very nervous because I was you know just making this look like such a hot mess. And they were watching very seriously, and I came to the monitor and I said, Do you buy any of that? And and and and they were like, it's actually kind of what it's like. You know, they often get bumps and bruises, and they're often say it's like not really like it's depicted in in films. So we we kind of happened onto this thing that ended up feeling kind of accurate.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

So everybody in space isn't a ballet dancer, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Well, they're astronauts and they're special people, right? I mean, just all around. They're they're just unique human beings, and so they are more predisposed.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

Uh can we pause that?

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

So uh we haven't talked about this recently, but a new paper came out that some people are actually pre genetically predisposed to being good at space. Wait, what does that even mean though? That I'm lot this is a joke. I'm doing a bit. Yeah, I was yeah, okay. Oh, yeah. Um I don't know, like I I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

Yeah, no, because I was I was kind of like that when I first heard. He's like, oh, so they're predisposed to being good at space. Nah, but I mean, yeah.

unknown 44:08

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

I guess he was saying, like, I mean, when I think of someone like he's just giving props to the astronauts, basically, I think so. Yeah, which I I I can appreciate that. When I think of the type of people that are selected to be in these astronaut programs, I do think uh there is a certain level of fitness that tests that they have to pass. Like I think uh former astronauts like my guy Leland Melvin, when I have Leland Melvin on at some point. Um, you know, he's a super fit guy, former NFL player. Like, um, yeah, so Gattaca is a really interesting sci-fi movie that comes to mind, though. I don't think I've seen it. Gattaca's an incredible movie. It's about genetic engineering. Came out, I think, in the 90s. Yeah. And it was about genetic engineering, and this guy who's, I guess his brother was like this genetically engineered guy who's like physically superior in all these ways, but he was like a dud because he was like naturally born, but he had this aspiration to do all these great things in space, but he had to pass all these tests and fake like he was as genetically gifted as he actually wasn't. Interesting. Um, and so it kind of like brought up a bunch of these kind of conversations around, you know, uh willpower and like uh why if a person is genetically engineered, is that fair? And all these different things. Great, great, great movie. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Watching a predisposed to be good at space, but this character is not. So this felt like an opportunity to sort of show show an audience what what that what it might look like if they were there. You know, something a little more akin to what a normal person might be like in those conditions.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Yeah, and I noticed your main man Rocky also kind of had some fumbles in space too, and I felt like that made Rocky even more endearing, too.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's and like I have to give full credit to James Ortiz, the puppeteer. Because, you know, he he is Rocky, and and more so than I think any of us the the the the the origin story of that is really interesting too. I I can tell you about that if you want. Or I don't know if you know about James. You didn't know about the famous puppeteer? James so James meant to just be the puppeteer, and you know, even from the audition, we we met with some of the best puppeteers in the world, and it was amazing. But there was this one Rocky puppet that they were using, and James came in at the end and he put the Rocky puppet aside and he just put his hand on the table and he made his hand Rocky. And what he was able to do with just his hand was so mesmerizing and and and confident. He just took ownership of the character in a way that was like really a relief because you know, I need a scene partner as well.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Um man, it took everything in me not to crack this joke about him just giving a great hand job. Like just he's and he's talking about how he's getting relieved. He just hand on the table. He just moved, you know, he just moved the puppet to the side, he puts his hand right there on the table.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

All my stress just melted away.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

And all the relief that I got from this, man, it's just so it was so relieving. It took everything in me not to say it. I don't know what like that that the puppeteer just gave a great hand job. I mean, it was really hard to not say that. Yeah, that's like I was weighing, I was weighing a few different things. I'm like, eh, I don't know if it's the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

If I thought of it, I think I would have said it. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

I didn't even think of that. I didn't even think of that.

SPEAKER_06 47:35

All right, we can keep going.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

You know, I need a scene partner as well, and and and I need us to have conflict. There's so many, there's so many reasons to say it. You know, have this friendship feel like uh we earned it. So James started saying once he started puppeteering, like Rocky would never do that, he would never say that, Rocky would be over here. You know, he he was he had very strong feelings of I feel like Ryan Gosling, can you pause it real quick?

SPEAKER_03 48:06

I feel like now that we can see his face a little bigger, I feel like he has this like satirical facial expression constantly. Like everything he's saying is kind of tongue in cheek. Think so? I mean, I don't know, maybe maybe it's just like a little deadpan. It's not yeah, he's like, yeah, and it's just the way that you know we work together.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

It's just like, yeah, you know, is that yeah, it's hard to tell if like that's his because that's how that's how he like I think comes across as well in movies. So it might just be like his temperament and like his delivery, right? Um, but I also could read the like sarcastic that he's like doing a bit of a like sort of a bit, and he's yeah, tongue-in-cheek, he's like kind of joking a little bit about what Rocky would do. And I guess that ambiguity maybe is like partially why he's such a good actor to read with.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

But he had such a deep connection to him that it was just very clear eventually that he was Rocky, and so now and now he is, you know. But the irony was in the story when we're trying to find uh a voice for Rocky, we also, while filming, discovered Rocky's voice through James.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

Very cool, man. So, you know, our show is Curiosity Theory, and one of the premises behind it is that as humans, we're all innately curious about things. And I think that this movie is really cool because you know, your character, Rylan, has to invoke that curiosity to figure out where did why is he here? You know, what's going on? He has to be curious about the alien, he has to be curious about how he's gonna fix things. And I'm I'm interested, what in this movie did you get curious about? Or like has your own personal curiosity been inspired, bro? He got like the hot guy shit down, bro. Like he got it down to a fucking science.

SPEAKER_06 49:49

Look at him, dipped his head and look at him. Hold on, pause that. Then he like squinted up his no. No, bro. He got the he got the yeah, he got that hot guy shit down.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Ryan Gosling is light skinned for real. For real. He's light skinned. Ryan Gosling, hella light skinned.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Look at him. He's really like trying, it's he's trying to understand, bro. And it's like, nah, bro, I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. I'd be doing that too. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

I learned the more fascinating it is, and uh, you know, I just wish I could retain that information. I wish I could like really understand it on the level of some of the people that I I get to talk to it about. But I love being, I just like space people. I think that they're a special kind of person. I've had the opportunity to hang out with astronauts and go to NASA, and it's just like something about it. It's just I I just um I always leave feeling enlightened and and and inspired.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Yeah, I mean, you're in good company. We're space people too. I study space. This is uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

What is it company? What is it for you guys? I mean, what keeps you curious about about what you do? Um actually life out in the universe.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Yeah, I study other planets. Try to figure out ways to search for life, like astrobiology. And um, you know, the aliens, they never you never get to meet them, you know, one-to-one, face to face, like you get to in a movie. But that's one of the things that I'm interested in. It's like what other types of life are out there? And I'm endlessly curious about that.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Yeah, that's uh kind of where our interests intersect, you know. Like I I like to think of it more as of an imaginative perspective. Uh kind of like the sci-fi premise. You know, we've had so many conversations about of what potential aliens could look like. And, you know, my curiosity exists at that frontier falling in love right now. I always kind of want to know what's on the cutting edge of technology and you know what's what's most possible uh today. So that that kind of stuff just is riveting to me.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

Yeah. Well, Ryan, man, it's great, it's been great having you. Really appreciate you coming on. Uh, super excited about this movie. You know, we get people asking us about it all the time. It's been a pleasure, man.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Yeah, anytime. This was fun. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Thanks, man. And then the first clip goes back to him like, yeah, dude, the scowl is crazy. Nah, but he's on to something. He's on to something. Yeah, man. No, but I think this was uh it's a really cool, I guess on the behind the scenes thing. We've kind of been going back and forth for a couple weeks about this potentially this is gonna be your it's gonna be your reactions to everything I say from now on. I'm just listening, bro. Yeah, um man, I don't know, you're making me giggle and stuff, man. I don't know. It's interesting. Uh, but no, on a on a behind-the-scenes tip, you know, this is something we've been kind of talking about potentially happening for about two or three weeks now. Um it's a really cool thing because it's like, yo, man, it's like you build something like this. We've been building it, we've been working on this for like seven, eight months, give or take. And you just don't know where it can go. And I feel like the speed of us getting the types of features that we've been able to get on the show, like Hank Green and Ryan Gosling, and even some of the people that we're not sure if they've come out, their episodes have come out yet. Uh, by the time we we release this, um, it's it's exciting, man. I'm I'm excited where we're we're gonna take this.

SPEAKER_04 53:14

Now we've had tons of like great collabs with lots of uh lots of cool people, lots of cool scientists in every field. Um, some cool collabs with Deontay Kyle, uh in the Grits and Eggs podcast, lots of awesome stuff. Yeah. So this was, and we talk about sci-fi stuff so much.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

So Yeah, and I and you know, I mean, I think it also kind of goes to show the power of creating a niche, you know, where it's like, you know, one, uh obviously our credentials collectively, like your PhD, you know, my kind of credentials working on media and science. Um, so we're we're kind of positioned as these experts in our own right, and we're weighing in on topics that, you know, for especially for like black men, like these are things that black men are interested in, but like a lot of people don't speak with authority about. And so it really feels like like who who else is out there really uh young that's doing this kind of stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 54:06

Very dope, man. Very awesome that we were able to do this. Hope we get to do many more of these. Very excited about this movie too. Go check it out. Um people, I felt like we get comments, uh, comments about this all the time. Yeah. People wanting us to talk about it. Uh perhaps after a few weeks, we'll do another episode that is reviewing the movie. We don't wanna want to spoil anything, but um, you know, for now, but that may be something that that it'd be fun to do. I mean, lots of people. This may be the sci-fi that people ask us most about after Kill Mary.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

We'll see a ton of comments about that. And I mean, yeah, I think this is the type of thing that we can see ourselves doing a lot more of. Like we both organically will watch stuff like this. Probably this is like the first thing that'll show up in my algorithm. Uh-huh. You know what I mean? So I'm immediately gonna click on it already. So to just be able to kind of speak about it, do more research on it, nerd out about it, like yeah, which I I've said probably like five times now.

SPEAKER_04 55:00

Yeah, you be spamming that shit.

SPEAKER_03 55:02

I mean, I don't know, man. I feel like it's it's also it's also non-threatening, you know. Like people are like, okay, we're gonna nerd out. It's like, all right, but we're we're not, I'm not trying to like attack you journalistically.

SPEAKER_04 55:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:13

It's like this you're developing like a corporate speak, but for this. Or like science, right? I guess so. It's like it's okay. Everything's okay. We know we're black men, but we have glasses on, and like I said, nerd out like 12 times. So everything's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Just gonna nerd out. Just gonna nerd out. It's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_04 55:34

Just gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Well, thank you all for rocking with us, and as always, like we like to say, stay curious. Peace.