Creative Freelancer Success: From Dyslexia to Times Square - Photographer Lily West

Episode Summary

This week, Jess sits down with someone truly special - her sister Lily West, a creative entrepreneur and freelance photographer who's built her dream creative business through determination and creative confidence. From struggling with dyslexia in school to shooting single covers displayed on Times Square billboards, Lily's creative career journey is a masterclass in creative resilience and never giving up on your artistic vision.

Perfect for creative professionals seeking freelance business tips, creative career advice, and entrepreneurship motivation.

What We Cover

The Creative Entrepreneur Journey

• How Lily transitioned from hating academia to building a successful creative business
• The reality of freelance photography: years of financial struggle, knockbacks, and self-doubt
• Why technical skills matter less than creative confidence (spoiler: you can hire an assistant!)

Creative Business Resilience

• Lily's incredible creative resilience through years of unpaid work and rejections
• How she manifested her creative career by literally writing "I'm gonna get paid from my art" in her diary
• The importance of having support when building your creative business

Redefining Creative Success

• Why traditional education doesn't predict creative entrepreneur success
• How learning differences became strengths in her creative career
• The breakthrough moment: from iPhone videos to Times Square billboards

Mental Health for Creatives

• Managing creative professional anxiety and maintaining mental wellness
• The life-changing power of morning journaling for creatives
• Why creative self-care and self-awareness are crucial for sustainable success

Creative Confidence & Authenticity

• University alter ego "Ducky the Diva" and terrible Whitney Houston covers
• The legendary pickled pigeon bingo night
• Why embracing your uniqueness is actually your creative superpower

Key Takeaways for Creative Success

1. Transform challenges into strengths - Learning differences can lead to unique creative perspectives
2. Creative persistence pays off - Sometimes you need to show up for years before the breakthrough happens
3. Collaboration over competition - Partner with people whose strengths complement your creative business needs
4. Maintain creative playfulness - The most successful creative entrepreneurs never lose their sense of wonder
5. Prioritise creative wellness - Creative career success means nothing without mental health

Resources Mentioned

• The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron - The creativity bible for creative professionals --> https://dauntbooks.co.uk/shop/books/the-artists-way/
• Morning Pages - Three pages of stream-of-consciousness writing for creative confidence
• Megan Rose Lane - Manifestation workshop for creative entrepreneurs

You can find Lily on Instagram @lilz_w or check out her business account @squish.agency

Love this episode? Hit subscribe and leave us a review! And if you know someone who's redefining success on their own terms, nominate them at successfulafpod@gmail.com - we're always looking for incredible people to feature.

Connect with Jess:

Instagram: @kalicoaching.co

Website: www.kalicoaching.co.uk

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

What if everything you've been told about success is wrong? Welcome to Successful af, the podcast for women who've checked all the boxes, but still feel empty inside. You know the story. Perfect cv, impressive job title, great salary. Everyone thinks you've got it all figured out. But behind closed doors, you're working yourself into the ground and wondering why success feels so completely exhausting whilst fantasizing about opening a jam shop in the country. Or perhaps that's just me. I'm Jess West, and I've been exactly where you are. Corporate climber by day, anxious mess by night until I realized the game was rigged from the start. Each week on successful af, we are rewriting the rules. No more grinding until you break. No more pretending perfection members is a superpower. No more building your worth on other people's scorecards. We'll hear from women who've cracked the code, the one who set actual boundaries that stick and learn to succeed without sacrificing their sanity. This isn't your typical. Lean in and work harder advice. This is about dismantling the achievement trap and building something better. Because here's the truth, you can be successful without being miserable. You can be ambitious without being anxious, and you can finally stop feeling like a fraud in your own life. Ready to get successful? Af, hit subscribe, and let's burn down the old playbook together.

Overcoming Challenges and Finding Success

Defining Success and Manifestation

Mental Health and Coping Strategies

Journaling and Leeches: An Unusual Analogy

Struggles with Dyslexia and School Challenges

The Importance of Collaboration in Business

Advice to My Younger Self

Embracing Playfulness and Creativity

Career Highlights and Achievements

1:26

So today I am joined by someone who I have been inspired by for a very long time. I'm really, really excited about this episode because not only is she the most incredible photographer, videographer hype woman friend, she's also my sister. So welcome Lily. Hello everyone. Hi, welcome. Lil, obviously I know your story from like a familial side, but I'm really interested to hear it from your perspective. So I'm not even gonna give you any preamble. Just tell us your story. Amazing. Thank you so much. My story. So I'd always been a very creative, younger child, not really into academia at all. Kind of hated it and hated the school academic side of things a lot. And then I. I really always enjoyed art, but I didn't really know what I wanted to do as a living. I was like, oh, I wanna be an artist. And then I was like, I can't really draw that well, and I, I'm not good at the people next to me. What do I do? Anyway, and then I went to college and then I wanted to do something creative, and then I, it was a really, really tiny studio, but I made it work and started doing photography and I really enjoyed it. And then I started doing that, and then I went to uni and did fashion photography at uni. And I really enjoyed it, but I was technically not as gifted. Creatively, I gifted technically. I really struggled and then I was like, this is difficult to be like a successful photographer to be a successful photographer and not I. Be technical is quite an issue. And then everyone next to me was so technical so that I was a bit like spiraling out about that uni. But then I realized you didn't have to, if you're a successful photographer, you can just have an As like an assistant that does it, but, and I was like, whoa, revolutionary. And then everyone kind of like was obviously I wanted to make money, so I was just a waitress for ages. And then like I was getting suggested to kind of work in offices and do that to make the monies, but I just, I couldn't do it because mentally I just, I could, didn't have anything in me to do that. I felt like I wouldn't be good at it. I felt like I didn't have the attention span for it. I just really didn't wanna do it. So then I just. I was still just being a waitress, but then doing loads of like self-portrait, funny stuff on my Instagram shoots, but like paying quite a lot for film and like it wasn't really getting anywhere and I was doing it for like years and then I was like, this is quite interesting. I really dunno where I'm gonna end up. I still was like continuing to just do it.'cause I thought if I'm doing it loads then hopefully someone will like, like it. And then I got, I wanted to always be a music photographer. And, but like more so work as a musician and do their shoots and also follow them around, but less so like just dig stuff. And then I got approached by a musician's manager and then they were like, do you wanna do a shoot? I. And I was like, cool. And then they were like, how do you feel about doing this social media? And I was like, I don't know.'cause I've never done that before. And back then, three years ago, social media and like TikTok stuff wasn't that creative. It was like, I. Quite just like dances and like people just talking to the camera and now it feels like it's way more like inviting for like artists and that actually has a place there. It does well, like art does well there and before it didn't. So that was interesting coming into that and trying and being artistic and creative with it anyway, and then worked with the artist. It went really real well and we found their thing. And their flow with it and showcase their amazing voice and like their vision. And then through that got approached by the people management and record companies and then started filming other people. And it was amazing.'cause even those people talk a lot of rubbish about social media and it can be the worst thing ever. It really did give me a paid job in creativity, which I'm so blessed for. Yeah. And so I've just been doing that. Um, and through the success of this artist, I've been working with other artists. And I have an agency with my best friend who is just great and we work so well together and we film everything together. We noticed since we were 14 and we go, and now I'm in Europe filming for an artist and it's really great. And now we do then her single artwork, which is great because it came from literally just doing like social media posting on iPhone to like now being able to do on video cameras. And I always remember when I used to. Try and like assist people or go into big music video setups. So I was like, oh my gosh, that looks so terrifying. And it was just men with big cameras. And I was like, I don't, and now it's just really fun that we've been, we managed to do it in our way with our cameras and no one else, and just editing it and then doing the stuff. So yeah, that's my story I guess. I think, you know, I, I, firstly, I, it's amazing and I think what we should just talk about briefly is like, how long you. You carried on. I think it can be really easy when something isn't taking off to be like, right, I've tried this now, but like you consistently showed up for years and you know, obviously, you know, I've got the benefit of having seen you hustle and like, really, like you reached out to people constantly. You got knocked back or like you'd arranged shoots and people wouldn't turn up and all of this, and you just, you just never, ever, ever gave up. That's so nice. I love that so much. Yeah, I guess that was what it, because I just felt like that was my passion of, and I felt like not my purpose in life.'cause that always used to spell me out and I like thinking of my purpose, but like that was my thing. I just felt like I wanted to keep doing that and get paid for that, and I realized that it was either that or waitressing and I was like, no, no, no. I like, I, I, I can't, I can't do it. You wait. We're not shad. Nothing wrong with waitress. But for me in waitressing, I'm clumsy. I can't do it. I think I'm a di undiagnosed dyspraxia can't hold plates, drop the plates all over. Someone once and he went, mm, you should do better. And I thought, you know what? I should and I can't do this anymore. You, where do you think you got that level of self-belief from? Just that you, because it you never wavered. You were like, this is gonna happen. Like, it wasn't like a, oh, it's too hard. It was just like, you obviously, like, were it, were you looking at other people doing it thinking, oh, I can, I can be like them? Or were you just like, no, like I, I'm gonna create this because you said you are doing things quite differently to other people in the industry and you know you and your best mate, and you, you do it with your cameras, you do it your way. What was the. Like what was driving you? Yeah, I don't know. It is actually really refreshing your perspective on my like resilience with it because I obviously when you're inside it, you don't really see it like that. And I guess I always thought myself as being quite hard on myself and like also knowing that technicality and like business savvy wise, I wasn't really there. So I also was a bit like. It looks like I had loads of faith in myself, but I also kind of didn't, but I just had to keep going because I didn't know another option. And I also just knew that in an ideal world that would be what I would do, so I just had to keep doing it. I don't know. I think like mom and dad were always really just like, do whatever makes you happy and very supportive and like I think having that and they didn't really question, it definitely helped. The resilience of just to keep going, but also I think it just came from within. Love that for you. But like, because I didn't know what else to do, I was like, I'm just gonna have to keep going. But I think genuinely, yeah, the financial stuff was really difficult because it's all well and good saying come from within, but if like, obviously Jess was the best person in the world because I was able to come from Devon and be a waitress and she believed in me so much and you believe in me so much and stayed with you and let me stay in your place for free for a while and I literally had no money and I'd just be trying and trying to do shoots for free and spending so much money on film it wouldn't it get like. 60 likes and that would be like, oh cool. And like magazines would wouldn't pay me. They'd just be like, this is exposure. And then I'd work in a market. And like earn like minimum wage. That was after a while.'cause Jess was just like, no, just keep keep looking. Like, just keep like, you know, just like, and it wasn't really, I wasn't getting any job opportunities from it, so I was just doing catering and just like really random jobs and working in a market for ages, selling clothes with a rubbish boss. And then, yeah, it kind of just like. You definitely gave me that resilience as well and have really helped me just like stay at it and I think I just had good people around me and it really is underrated how massive deal that is.'cause if everyone was just a bit like, oh, just get on with it. Like you need to just do something now. As much as maybe there was a comment here or there around me, people would say that, not really. So I was really thankful for that. Oh, she's gone. She's back. Drop with the mic. That's it. My drop. We're done now. That's it. Podcast over. Bye. I love that. I love, I really, no, I think that's, there's some really, really important lessons there. But I think just like continuing to show, continuing to graft but also the importance of like having people around you who support you and believe in you. Um, yeah. Is. Somewhat underrated sometimes. Yeah, definitely. And before that, sorry as well, before I did get like asked by this artist manager, I was doing tours before that with an artist that I was really excited about for like not much money at all. And then just like doing. Working at the market and stuff to give me the money. So it's just about like to continue doing it and everyone else thinks that is your job, but it's not actually your job for ages, it's just kind of as in like you're not your paid job. So you are just kind of like making it look like that. And then it like feels more natural and seamless to the people that are asking you to do work for them'cause they think you're already doing it properly. So you just it's an, yeah. I do think you are a master manifester. Like you are one of the most magic people I know. Like you are, might fucking pull money out of a hat. Like, oh, I need some, oh, here it, here it is. Like just, I do think, like, I love that you taught me manifesting. We're, we're all still on a journey with that. I know. I'd write that in my diary all the time. I'm gonna work with the musician. I'm gonna get paid from my art. I'm gonna get paid from my art. Do you remember we wrote those things? Yeah. That were literally that. That is so crazy actually. You sat me down when I was having a midlife crisis, a 20-year-old life crisis, and you were like let's write down your goals. And what were they called? What do you call it, goal, a thing that you do, or was it like a, was it goals? Well, it like manifestations the workshop that we did. Yeah. It was just like the writing down and the like, it was like we did a, we did a Meghan Rose Lane workshop, didn't we? Yeah, that was really good. Shout out to Megan Rose Lane. Shout out to Megan Rose Lane. But yeah. Okay tell us what success means to you. Very good question, Jessica. Thanks. That's a very good question. Because there is material success, obviously, and I know that's a very textbook answer, but obviously that is a part of what we all, well, what I feel is success, like money money and abundance and like, a nice house and things to be able to have and like, not, not even just like just money security. I feel like it's success to me quite a bit actually. But success I think is like, to me is being recognized for what. Being appreciated for what you do. And I guess I have maybe a bit to, I love validation, so I do love when people are like, oh, I love this, love this work. You did dah, dah, dah. And I think it's just the happiness of creating. And then getting paid for it and then getting recognized for it in what I do. To me, that feels successful. And the money and and abundance thing is a thing for me as well. And that coinciding together, but also that's is a career thing successful in life is happiness, family support, love, just like being happy with what you do. No matter that success or just family or like how you treat people and how you're treated, you really brought it back around there like,'cause you went in on the success and it was really great. I did. I know. And then you went and it was quite, it was almost like this world moment when you were like, and world peace and happy dogs. Oh God, it was, I was so embarrassed. It's because I was like, God, like I need to give it all well-rounded art here. I don't just be like, yeah, success is money and abundance. Okay, great. There we go. But, but I know, but then No, no, because I wanna be like, but also success is being like, whoa, look at my family. Oh God. Yeah. Miss. World collegiality. World peace. World peace, honey. Yeah. Success to you? No, I'm asking the question. Sorry. We'll ask you after this. Okay. Um, has your definition of success changed throughout your career? I don't know actually, because I always was looking to be successful in my career and never really felt it. Until it grew and I still don't, I feel it because obviously like single artwork or artwork or like shooting and stuff and it getting to places more and it being like in a, on a billboard, that to me feels like an a massive creative success, which is amazing. But I guess I was always looking to that in a career and I didn't, I wouldn't say two years ago, I wouldn't maybe be like, I am. Successful in my career, even though I was, I think, is it, I mean, it's like the hierarchies, isn't it? Yeah. Of like success. It's actually, I, I think it's here, right? Oh my gosh. I've actually got it right here. Oh, look at that is what I made earlier. Ah, so this was Lily's first ever magazine cover. Oh my God, that's so funny. I almost forgot about her published in, I don't even know when it was. 2022. But like, you know, was that not success at the time? Yeah. You're so right. You're so right. Actually, I think at, at the time today, we can't do this with all of our guests. I'm sorry. I know. Look at you. Go. I love that so much. No, you're right. And that was when I moved to London, I had no money. And you were the most amazing person ever. And then, and we lived together and I literally was just like doing this, these like magazine things and it was like so exciting. But I wasn't getting, like, it wasn't, I did but like minimum like 300 pounds. Yeah. And so you, I couldn't live off that. And it was so great and exciting and I guess moments like that pushed me. Forward as well.'cause I thought if I do keep doing this, that people do get paid the big monies if they keep doing it. But it's like whether it's financially, if whether I'm financially able to keep doing it was the question. But yeah, so I guess answer to your question, the success has changed along the way. The values of it and the, and what is, I dunno. I guess, yeah, like the last five years I've maybe always been like, oh, successful, but always had bigger ambitions and things. Classic as like a load of other people. They would, they compare something they did five years ago and be like, oh, that thing. But at the time you're so excited about it and it's such a big thing. I think there's that classic thing of. We very rarely look back to see how far we've come and like, I feel like I'm seeing this all the time at the moment, which is clearly one of those, like, I often, like when I see stuff all the time, I'm like, okay, universe, I hear you. But it's like I keep seeing this like, oh, don't forget that a year ago or 10 years ago or whatever. Everything you wanted is now everything that you have. And it can be really easy to get stuck into that. Yeah. Cycle of, oh well like, but other people my age are like, for me it's other people my age are married, other people my age have got kids and like those things. I'm sure they're on the horizon for me, but they're not like, whatever. But actually for me it's about building my coaching business and like seeing that take off and then like, build using like, then building wealth from that and then, you know, creating my future or rather my, and my partner's future. You know, so like that kind of thing. But it's always that we're always looking ahead and actually yeah, five years ago I. What was I doing five years ago? I don't know. I think we were living together five years ago. Uh, yeah. And I know it was COVID and it was like, oh my gosh. Stuck in the house and like, you know, and, and you know, actually my good at that time was like that none of my family were gonna die from COVID. And so, yeah. You know, it's, it's that like, oh my god, you know, now, and we've kind of come back around to world peace a little bit here, but like it's, yeah. It's so easy to forget. It's if you were to ask yourself, like you were saying like five years ago, like if you were to show yourself five years ago what you're doing now and what you've achieved and what you are like putting together and like all of this, and it is actually incredible and it's stuff that you five years ago would be like, well, I mean five years. Yeah. But yeah, sure. You five years ago. Five years ago you were still a fetus. I'm, I'm talking about you. No, five years ago we were living together. I know, but you're still like a baby. I mean, you're still a baby. I know. There were 10 years between Lily and I, so Yeah, there are. Yeah. I'm 26, about to be 27. There you go. Well, thanks for telling everyone how old. I'm sorry. Great. Um, let's move on, shall we? Yeah. What barriers or challenges have you had to overcome? Loads, I think self-worth challenges for sure when you are freelance and like you said, the kind of like. Consistently trying and keep going and like, even though you're not getting paid, just have that faith that it's gonna happen. I think along, like I kind of forget how mentally challenging that actually was and like, I think that was a massive mental challenge, like not having money having you to pick me up. And that was literally amazing. Like I'm so thankful for that. Not to keep going back to that, but that was incredible'cause I was able to move to London and do that. But it was so challenging'cause I felt bad and then I didn't have enough money. And so that was a challenge. And then finally that was good. And then. We were living together for longer and then moved out and then fin like financially it was more successful, dah, dah, dah. But then I guess like the work there's like deadlines and pressure and stress and you're moving around a lot. There's not loads of like routines. And so therefore, mentally that can sometimes be difficult, but it's like amazing. It's so, so good. But I think also just as a human being, my challenges that I experience is more so to do with like mental health challenges, experiences of anxiety. Like I think like, not like, like I just have feelings of anxiety quite a bit, and I think that's a big challenge. Sometimes I think I sort of had that like a good like maybe four years ago that came into play and then I've just been like dealing with it, overcoming it, trying to go down in my serline and like, it's just really, um, that was really difficult and it still is, but I do feel like it was a nice challenge for me to really like to kind of like know how to try and challenge it and deal with it when you are working and doing it consistently. And like what, you know, for anyone who is also struggling with anxiety, like other than obviously the medication, is there anything that you'd suggest or anything that you found really helps you so, you know, it might not be applicable, but. Yes. Also, going back to before when you said about your journey quickly in there, the artist's way is literally incredible. Not doing a promo there, but going back to the journey situation, that definitely helped as well. I think that was such an important time that you showed me that because doing that, filling that out. I think that gave me that mindset as well.'cause it's just a really good question of like how I was so just like cold with sticking in it. It was that whole thing of believing that having the faith to create these things, you have faith in it and that faith alone is good enough and then you put that up and that's good enough and then you keep going and it's like not to second guess it. And I've told my friends about it and they've really like enjoyed it and they feel like it's really nice having those conversations with people that you care about because it's like this new mindset thing and it's basically, it was like a therapy. Around losing your creativity. And I think as for me, having that as a career is crazy because I didn't have that as a career before I read it. And that's quite cool that having that faith gave that. But anyway, going back, ask Julia Cameron, we will link the book in the notes. Where were we? What was I saying? You were talking about your challenges and you Yes. You know what? You know, from the mental health perspective, what would say, you know, you've really has really helped or if anything that's really helped. The reason why I brought that up is because of journaling and like Julia Cameron and it says like, journal three times, uh, three pages a day. And you told me to do that and it literally changed my life. Definitely a hundred percent. Especially you and I was like really struggling mentally just to do that in the morning and just get out three. Pages of just rubbish most of the time. And just like to process what you're feeling.'cause most of the time with my anxiety, it's just, I like anxiety in general. It's just like funk that you haven't really resolved. You don't really know what's going on. And it's just like words that are just like in clusters and. That really helped me. And I think when I was really struggling mentally, that was great. I, I don't do it as often anymore, but I should, and I, I do sometimes. And then therapy helped a lot. Coming to terms with how I can be in certain situations when I am feeling more anxious. What I'm saying to myself, my like mental dialogue of just like, also like. Looking at a situation wrong, reading it wrong, and therefore spiraling and convinced that like everyone is annoyed at me or upset with me or like my people pleasing mentality is just wild. And I think knowing that it's not always the case, that whole thing, how you read the situation, just having that faith that like you are great and people are friends with you because you're you and that's all you need to know. And. You're having a moment of just like not being the center of the room, dah, dah, dah. It's fine. You can just be, you can have that time to yourself and dah, dah, dah. I think that is a big challenge for me sometimes when I really experience like social anxiety's, like how do I deal with it? But I think it's just more so, this is so funny. Like no one really notices that I experience it, but like, it's so funny to me because it's like I feel like I'm being so weird at odds. But actually I, sometimes I think I do go into myself sometimes. Then I kind of resent that when I go into myself and go quiet because I like being an extrovert. But actually I am an introvert massively a lot. And it's okay that that's the case.'cause they know what you're like. When you're an extrovert, you can also be an introvert. Yeah. I, I think that's right. And also man, extrovert, introvert. We're a bit of everything. On the journaling. Uh, for me, journaling is like, you know, when you make an amazing mint, I don't eat meat anymore, but like when I used to, oh she's trying to open her bottle top. Right, right. She loses an eye. Like I don't really eat meat anymore, but like when I used to make a mince and then you'd like cook it and then you'd leave it overnight. Oh, she's done it. Oh, she's got the bottle top off. Congrats. Congrats. Yeah. Mint overnight. Really good. Like the allergy a lot. Yeah. And then you like leave it to cool and then all the fat like comes on the top. And for me, you now hate your apple juice. Gross. No, I love it. I'm just loving your analogy about the fat on the top. This is. Yeah. So then you like scoop all the orange crap off the top. And that to me is what journaling is. It's like just getting, it's almost like, know Oh good. In the olden days when you used to like put leeches on you to get rid of the dirty blood. It's that kind of thing. You didn't, you don't like that analogy as much? No, I hate that. I hate leeches and I hate that they do that, but it's a good analogy. I've just been kind of thinking about them recently. It's funny You've been bringing them up. Yeah. They in uh, stranger things and like. Okay, perfect. No, no, but good analogy that, that mint one, I'm gonna use that. That's so good. That's the best thing you've ever said. Joking, said lots of better things in that. Thanks. But it's blow my mind. Anyway, um, back to you. I also have dyslexia and I think in school that was really difficult and dyscalculia. So anything basically to do with like words and numbers and school is just a lot of words and numbers and I think school really, really, really makes you think especially then that like being academic is kind of the be all and end all. That's how I felt. That was my personal experience, I would try and I would revise and I would really try and focus, but it was always like, oh, you're not listening. Like you're not focusing enough. Like it was kind of like a, oh, I'm, I'm in the bottom set of English, or I'm in the bottom set of maths. And that I think mentally put me in this place of like being now insecure that like, I'm like dumb or not as like, silly word, but like, and, and that definitely still has a part to play now where I feel like I'm like. Not enough smart or dah dah, not enough smart, and, um, not enough smart. So basically, yeah, I just, and I think that was a massive challenge in school, trying to prove to people that I was revising, I was intelligent, but what you are trying to judge me on are the things that are. My weaknesses, I'm not, that's not my thing. They're not my things. But in school they're not really gonna like, look at your photography skills or your people skills. As much as everything else. And so I was judging myself and what everyone else was judging me on and what the standards were at school. And obviously I was a bit like God, yeah. Like I'm not quite like smart enough and I, I can't do the things that we're meant to be doing. And then, so that was like a really big challenge. And then I think coming to college in uni was so liberating for me because it was like finally 18 years later. I actually feel like I have a place and a space where I can like, be rewarded for like what I do and like what I, I can fit into something. Even though still, like in the technical side of photography and being around people that were really good at it. Why? I was still a bit like, but so much better than being in like maths and just like, it just going over me. Like I was so bad at maths. Everyone so bad and e. Four times, maybe five, and it's fine. Look at where we are now. Exactly. Brussels. No, you're in Hamburg. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm on, I'm in Hamburg. I was in Brussels yesterday. How do you run a business with the numbers? I'm sorry, I don't, I'm not nagging you. No, no, no. I know you're not, but literally we need to get. My accountant, which also sounds hilarious, but the accountant I use to be in this as well. And she would be like, dunno, dunno how she does it. Dunno. Basically it's just about having that, like we have an account, maybe that's the answer. Like you bring, like you were saying earlier, right? Like bring the goods. Yeah. Like you said, what did you say? Like you, you don't need to be the most technically advanced photographer'cause you can bring in an assistant and so yeah, bring in the accountant for the stuff. But I think that's the case with everyone. Like for anything we can't do, we can plug the gaps with people who can do, and that's how this whole society thing works. Definitely. I. Exactly, and that that, and that's so important because like if you have a weakness, you should have, you should collaborate with someone who is, has a strength and then you can just plow power through it together. Like my business partner and best friend had a business degree. She still struggles, but she's amazing with the organization, the, making everything look like so neat and together and really particular but so good at that. And that's like the best thing ever because I can be a bit slapdash sometimes. And so having the both, but then I'm quite quick at it. So having the both of us where I can be quick turnaround and then having Ellie, even though sometimes I'm bad with Kristen and be like, oh yeah, the colors are a bit funky on that one. Even though I'm like, I'm like, yeah, to be fair, they're all different. Like yesterday I had to, right. Hang on. You said I'm bad with criticism. I really thought you said I'm bad with Kristen, and I was like, who the hell, Kristen. There was a lot of fast words. Yeah. Yeah. Whoa, sorry. Criticism, I'm bad with criticism. And so, but working in a business and having a business partner is also your best friend, is also hard.'cause you're just like, what do you mean? But you have to hear the criticism all the time because that's how you get better and that's how you grow. And I think that's been a massive challenge for me is it in a career is like hearing criticism quite a lot and then just being like, okay, cool. That's what I need to take on. Let's do it better. So yeah, I think the both having the both of us. Obviously I couldn't run a business by myself. Having her is amazing. Having the accountant is amazing. And then employing other people to help us with certain projects and it just, yeah, it's great. Great. Thanks. Yeah. Tick, tick, tick. That's how we done another mic drop. What advice would you give to your younger self? I mean, we know you're a baby, but like your baby self. You are great the way you are and continue to do, continue to explore and be your childlike self and continue to be happy, continue to pay. Play in life and play around and really try to desperately to clinging onto that and not let say if you come into a room really happy and not let, like everything or anyone just like shrink you for a little snail. And I think just like to continue going and it's fine that you're not gonna get paid initially for stuff. All, it will all work out. And you like people will like you for you, and you don't need to question yourself all the time because you're in this position for a reason. You've got the people around you for a reason and you just need to rock on with it and continue going because they're not gonna drop you the drop of a hat because you've worked your way to get here and you deserve to be here. Yeah, you do deserve to be there. I think it's, it's really valid advice and I think it's really hard. It's really easy to hear and it's really hard to internalize, but I, yeah. You know, it is what you said that just like, just keep going. Just keep going if you really believe that what you have to offer. Yeah. Yeah, it will. It will go. It's just mm-hmm. Time. Exactly. And it's just, it's just that thing of like, if you just think about when we were kids, how amazing children at different, in different era we are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying individually and our kid like states. okay. Okay. So if you remember being children and it's just like, wow, like, I know, but like, we were just so creative and lovely and funny and just nice to everyone and then life shapes you a bit and then you just, you get a bit scuffed around the edges and obviously we're so lovely, nice, wonderful human beings. But like it's funny that your beliefs get a bit tainted along the way and then you have to sometimes check yourself and that's why sometimes like therapy and journaling and all of that is so important because when like. Say whatever you've adapted along the way. And with me it's like anxiety. It's like just know that, that wasn't there before.'cause you would just didn't care. Yeah, you just were happy and you didn't care if someone wasn't happy, you didn't, obviously if someone was shouting at you, it was scary, but like in the scheme of things, just playing, you just do it. And I know that that's a generic thing to like to talk about and like your childlike self or whatever, but I don't know. That's, when you asking me that question, I was like imagining me as a young person, just being like hearing that from an older me is so. It would've been so important because it's just like, but that's what you, you were there for me for that, which was amazing'cause you were kind of like an older me in a way. Kind of give me that advice that you'd experienced a little bit along the way and then give that to me. But. When you weren't there and dah, dah, dah. And when you get in your head, you just sometimes have to like really try and give yourself the pep talks. But in the moment it's so hard'cause your brain's just like struggling and you can't, you don't, you don't really know like what your thoughts are doing, but you're just feeling a bit rubbish. But it's nice in hindsight to have these conversations and remember all of that. And like we were just like sweetness for individuals that just wanted the best for everyone and ourselves. And then it just gets harder when you grow up. I. Love that, that you get scuffed around the edges as you get older. I wish. Do you? That's really nice. I like that no one wants to get scuffed, but it, I just think that I know, it's like an old pair of trainers. Yeah. That's nice.'cause it also, but then I was like, God, is that also like a bit depressing that we've, like we are scuffed now you can polish out the scuffing. You're right. And the scuffing also adds, yeah, adds texture and interest. Like it's the stories I was talking to my coach. And she was saying, these are your stories, like these are your gold. Because if you don't have your stories, what you are just like some flat piece of paper. She didn't say that. Those are my words. I think actually like those bumps in the road are what gives us texture, what like shapes us and actually teaches us so many lessons. So I don't mind the scuffs. You are right. And also if we stayed our childlike selves in a way of like, actually not caring about anyone else could be a bit a problem. So in a way, yeah. And the slight social anxiety is good thing. Maybe because it's like, you know, to an extent, but it's like the thing of just being like conscious of like people. Yeah. And like Yeah, exactly. I like gauging like reading the room. So yeah, we love our golfs. Just curious, and I, I know I've not told you, I'm gonna ask you this question beforehand, so surprise, ask away. I love it. What do you think is your biggest career highlight to date? I think it would be doing the single cover. You need to explain what that is though because, oh, so I shot, um, gorgeous Lola young musician. And I. I've worked with her for a long time, but we finally got to a point where I shot her single cover and basically, uh, we did a shoot and it went on the cover of her new single and in a studio. Um, it just felt so reassuring for me as an individual and as a creative that I could do that and to know that I could do that.'cause obviously I shame myself sometimes about my technicality, da da da, like lighting, da da da. I had an amazing assistant to help me and. Obviously and we did it all together and it just felt amazing that we did that. And I think to have our work on a billboard and in New York in Times Square and like be on Spotify and be on other billboards in London, and that I think is amazing for me. And that isn't a light thing and that's something I've like tried to manifest. Like 11 elevens and it came true. And that feels like a massive deal. And that happened recently. So it's very easy to just say something that's happened. But that feels like definitely the biggest thing that has happened, especially when like back in the day I remember you like paying for studio space and not, and like, not begging, but like, you know, desperately trying to find models and like getting people mm-hmm. A few clothing and stuff and now like you get paid to do this shit. Yeah. Which is amazing. That's cool. And then other creators are like asking us questions and coming to us and like agencies are coming to us and like, I'm just so. Thankful for Miss Lola as well to like, obviously to just be in that position. Also be like best friends with that individual. And also just her be so creative and put us on the map like that is so amazing. Like, I don't know, I just feel like it's just so blessed. It has to be a lot of trust there, doesn't there? Definitely. Oh my God. Massively. Like, I literally came into it and like was like, oh, do you wanna wear a skirt over trousers? And she was like. And then like, kind of like trusted that, like I was just like, we were just playing around and like I was just wearing things and she was like kind of into it and then we just did that together and then we do silly videos together and then she'd see it after, be like, oh, I like it. So yeah. And I think it's like a level of respect that you both have for each other and what they do and you just wanna like, create with them and that's really nice and special. So very thankful for that. Yeah, I know. I, I think there's like a big theme that you, you kind of brought up a few times and it's just about the importance of play. And that's not to be, yeah. That doesn't mean it's not serious. That doesn't mean it's not genuine. But I think bring, being able to bring that level of play as something that's really unique. And I think, you know, you kind of talked about it with the artist way, it goes away quite Oh yeah. And to be able to hold onto that is, yeah, pretty special actually. Yeah. It was just like, just draw who cares? Post it, do it, put it up, whatever. Have an exhibition, da, da, da, da. It's just like that thing, I think we get so along the way in years just be like, well, it's not perfect. It's not perfect and like compare, compare, compare. But it's like actually. Who cares if you think that everything has been perfect, you're never gonna release anything ever. And no one would. No, exactly, because not normally everyone ha like all the creatives hate the stuff they do, but people love it and that's what keeps them going. Nothing's perfect, like, you know, no. Like, we could, I won't get sidetracked here, but this is my thing about ai because AI technically is perfect, and I think that's why, yeah. I find like, and you know, like I'm not sh like no shame, like I've used ai, I use it a lot. Like it's really helped me build my business.'cause I don't have time to create an entire website by myself. I have a full-time job on top of, you know, running the business. But yeah, shout out, chat. GBT. No, I use Claw ai. Um, oh yeah. Give me that details, right, that details. I could definitely check the ethics of that before talking about this on here. But also we do know that it's like very bad for the environment. Lots of water. I try not to use it too much. Good. Yeah. The AI. Yeah, I uses 10 times more water to do a water search than a Google search.'cause you have to call all of the stuff I said stuff. Dunno what. Right. We don't have time for this. No, we don't. We absolutely don't. I don't find my brain basically water And Google is like, I think what were we saying? Oh my God, my brain. What playing were we talking about playing, playing? Yeah. So like you, you don't get to play with cha Well, you can play with cha mm. It's, there's like not that level of joy, freedom. Yeah. Because it, like, you can't get it wrong. I like mistakes. I like it when I misspelled something.'cause I'm like, oh, they actually wrote that themselves. That's great. Congrats God. I think I misspelled every single word. It's not. Obviously, I don't know that Google and the mail is on my side because it does the red thing and everything sorted out. But yeah, you're right. It shows that you know, you're not perfect. It's nice, it's endearing and the art, the is playful is the best. You don't need to draw your uncle word for word, precise and like. It can be off. And like that's the beauty, that's why like caricatures and paintings, it's just everything just adds personality and depth and I don't know, obviously we know this, but it's good to talk about it'cause you're sometimes like you get so critical of your own art. What is your weird I trying to thank you. She's doing a little dance for anyone listening. What is it that like makes you unique? I think you've talked about a lot of it. It's about the play. It's about like sort of doing, but like, actually what I really wanna know is what is the weirdest thing you've ever done? And I will tell you my story, what you think about this. So that's amazing. This is one of the weirdest things I've ever done. When I was at university, my best friend like had this thing, we used to call it the, the crazy train where we just like completely fucking lose our minds for like a couple of hours. Like we weren't, we weren't tripping. Like it was just, we were just, I think we were, it was a lot of stress. It was final year and one day we just decided to send an envelope full of glitter to this boy's house. He was on our course We didn't know him that well. I dunno how we got, we got his home address and we just sent him an envelope full of glitter with literally no explanation. We didn't say who it was from. He obviously knew it was us because we'd, I think we'd asked for his address and he was just like, did you two send me an envelope full of glitter? And he said. Everywhere. Like it was in his, like his mom was like, hoovering it up for the next like six. Oh my God. And I like, I missed that version of myself. I'm like full of glitter recently. But damnit new one. Yes, it's the playfulness. That's the best thing ever. I don't think you've ever told me that. Did you send it to his mom's house or his uni house? His like parents' house. Oh my God, that's so good. Can you imagine? He'd rip it open and it'll fall out everywhere. Look, it was like stuffed full of Anyway, so yeah, that was, that was one of the weirdest things I've ever done. That's so good. I know.'cause I was really like, oh, good one. Because I do feel like you and me both, you know, we are weird. Yeah, we're we're great weird individuals. Very weird. So it's hard to pick out one weird, um. But I would say when I had an old rega at uni called Ducky the Diva I would dress up in a velo track suit and put my hair in a hightail, do terrible blush. I got a karaoke I machine, like a really, really bad one with a mic, like a kids one, and I would just sing really, really bad covers of Whitney Houston. I always love you. And film myself and put it on YouTube and call it Duck the Diva. And I'd say, hi loved ones. Bear in mind, no one obviously followed me. I was it like, like no, no one would even see it. Like, how are we today? My duck? I'd be like, and I'd be talking. And you know, like, like Chico, like, you know, X actor, all of those people, they were my, um, role models for things like this. You know, like not even Chico, like the people on X Factor that just would just fully believed that they were incredible, um, as they should. And so I was singing like really, really bad and like screamy, like, and I would then, because the, the mic, it would echo everything I was saying and I would try to edit it a little bit. I'm singing anyway. And then I'd put it up and I had an Instagram account and I would do hashtags and I'd follow other people that I. It was similar, this guy called Buffy Corll, who was very similar to me. And I used to comment on his, on his things being like, you'll love my life. Be my boyfriend. I was like this random man from like Philadelphia who did the same thing. But he definitely was doing an old alter ego thing and being his was like a comedy thing. And I would just like, and then people fun of me like, what's this? Da da f word da s word. And um, it was hilarious. And then I did it at uni, so I, like, I I bought it into, I did my whole, my final project that gave me a two one on Duck de Diva and I bought into uni and I did a big screen of me dancing. Oh yeah. I Green screened me dancing in Parliament. Singing, I do remember this. Singing Peaches? Yeah. The Peaches song, and it was like fucking, like, you want me calling me? And I was actually a valor, tracksuit. And, um, yeah, it was the best thing. I, I think I actually sent people it as well, like designers and stuff. Yeah, yeah. But like, like fashion people, because they kind of thought anyway, hilarious. And yeah. And then me and my flatmate, she was called. Phil something. I think she made her name like Phil something and we'd like be like in like a couple and dance together on the hills and um, yeah, I was gonna do a massive performance in a pub and then Corona hit. Um, but yeah, that was quite odd. Oh my god. Uni was literally play central. That was the best thing ever actually. Yeah. Like really was good for that. Yeah, like did Bingo, ho ho hosted a bingo night and dressed up as an old woman and everyone had to dress up as old woman and men, and we were all like 20 and like, call out the bingo cards, like we all like tanned ourselves orange for it, and then gave away like a pickled pigeon as the first prize. My god, you guys stopped the, the pigeon was already dead though, right? You didn't kill it. Yeah. Yeah. No, my flatmate gorgeous flatmate had a, a pickled pigeon that was dead on the road and she pickled it. And then we had it as our ornament in the middle of our table at uni. So play, play, play, play away. I, I think that's probably a good place to end on the pickled pigeon. You should call this, you should call this the Pickled Pigeon podcast. Yeah. Ducky Deaver and the Pickle Pigeon. Thanks so much, Phil. I think we've all learned a lot there. Thank you. Wonderful, gorgeous human being. Thanks so much for being, being on the podcast. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 48:48

Thank you so much for listening today, and thank you so much to Lily for being a part of this program. I. Obviously I've known Lily for a long time. I still learn so much from this and it was a really interesting opportunity for me to step back and just listen to her story, so hopefully you were able to take loads from it too. What I really got was that it doesn't matter if school isn't right for you, and it's okay because there are so many other metrics of success out there. If you're not getting a's in maths as in Lily's case, then I. You can still be a wild success regardless. I also took the importance of just continuing to believe in yourself. I loved Lily's single focus and her just constant, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna make it happen. She obviously acknowledges that she had to have a lot of support through that. She's really hustled on the side and I think there's an awful lot to be learned there. When you know exactly what you want, you are just going to get it.

Speaker 3 49:48

If this conversation sparked something for you, I want to hear about it. Send me your thoughts. Your questions, your holy shit. That's exactly what I'm going through. Moments, whatever's on your mind. Drop me a line at successful af pod@gmail.com. And here's the thing, I am always looking for incredible women's feature on this show. Women who've broken the mold redefine success on their own terms or just in the thick of that transformation right now. If that's you or someone you know, don't be shy. Nominate them or yourself at successful af pod@gmail.com. Also, do me a solid and subscribe. Maybe even write me a review and send it on to your mates, because the more stories we share, the more we prove that there's not just one way to be successful af. Thank you and see you next week.