Successful AF Pod

Overcoming Burnout: From Teacher Burnout to Psychology Career - Lyndsey Gormley

• Jesswest • Season 2 • Episode 1

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What happens when you realise success isn't about climbing the ladder, but about aligning your life with your values? 

In this Season 2 premiere, host Jess West sits down with Lyndsey Gormley, a therapist whose career transformation from burnt-out senior teacher to psychologist showcases resilience and professional reinvention.

As a first-generation university student from Yorkshire, Lyndsey moved to Hong Kong at 23, eventually becoming head of department before experiencing burnout. Her story of earning two master's degrees whilst working full-time and ultimately leaving teaching for psychology is a masterclass in career courage.

Perfect for listeners experiencing career burnout, seeking career change inspiration, or learning to prioritise mental health over external validation.

About Lyndsey Gormley

Lyndsey is a therapist at Mind n Life Psychology practice in Hong Kong, specialising in teenagers and families. Her journey from senior leadership to stepping down to pursue her calling demonstrates radical career change courage. 

Key Episode Themes

  • Teacher burnout whilst pursuing graduate education and advocating for yourself when exhausted
  • Redefining success from salary and titles to values-based goals
  • Psychological flexibility: Learning to bend without breaking through career setbacks
  • Why "good enough is good enough" and resilience comes from failing safely
  • Navigating imposter syndrome as a first-generation student

Workshop Announcement

Lyndsey and Jess are hosting a FREE workshop: Find Your Balance Blueprint

Connect with Lyndsey

Instagram: @lyndseygormleypsych Website: http://mindnlife.com/lyndsey-gormley/

Key Takeaways

You cannot hate yourself into success. Lyndsey's journey from perfectionist burnout to embracing "good enough" shows that career fulfilment comes from aligning behaviours with values, not chasing validation. Career paths don't have to be linear - stepping down can be stepping forward.

Values worksheet from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: https://farms.extension.wisc.edu/files/2020/11/Core-Values-Exercise.pdf 

https://youtu.be/cCCSpOtDPV0?si=7POZQRlK0NvjV3eR

Love this episode? Hit subscribe and leave us a review! And if you know someone who's redefining success on their own terms, nominate them at successfulafpod@gmail.com - we're always looking for incredible people to feature.

Connect with Jess:

Instagram: @kalicoaching.co

Website: www.kalicoaching.co.uk

Speaker 6:

Welcome to this week's episode of Successful af. We are back for season two and I'm so excited to be here. When I started this podcast, I knew that I needed stories of other women who'd done things differently. And the response has been absolutely amazing. I've had so many messages, emails, Instagram, dms from people who have said that it really helps that they feel less alone. That, sharing stories has been so powerful, and I'm so grateful to every single person who sent me a message because it's all for you. Today, I'm joined by Lyndsey Gormley. Lyndsey's story is one of complete reinvention. Born in Yorkshire to a working class family. As a first generation university student, she made the leap to Hong Kong at 23. Initially embracing the expat party lifestyle before a pivotal moment in her therapist's office at 25 made her question everything. That moment of I haven't achieved anything became the catalyst for an extraordinary transformation. What followed was Lyndsey's journey from drama teacher to head of department through burnout and advocacy battles with unsupportive management to eventually stepping down from senior leadership to pursue her true calling in psychology along the way. She earned two master's degrees, ran ultra marathons, volunteered as a Samaritan, and actually served on their board of directors because why not add more to an already overflowing plate? Lyndsey now works as a therapist at Mind n Life Psychology practice in Hong Kong, specializing in working with teenagers and families. But what I love most about her story is her redefinition of success itself. She's moved from traditional metrics of salary increases and job titles and climbing the ladder to something far more meaningful. Ensuring her goals align with her values, embracing psychological flexibility and learning that good enough really is good enough. Lyndsey's honesty about burnout, rejection, and the challenge of advocating for yourself when you're already exhausted is both raw and necessary. Her journey reminds us that success is not linear, that we have permission to change our minds about who and where we want to be. And sometimes the bravest thing you can do is turn the snow globe, that is your life upside down, and see what settles. Let's get into today's episode.

Speaker:

Lyndsey welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank

Speaker:

you for having me. Thanks so much for being here. I'm excited. I'm very excited about this conversation. I can't wait. Mm-hmm. So without further ado, tell us your story.

Speaker 2:

So I was born and raised. So like a very working class family in Yorkshire and was first generation university student, so neither of my parents have higher than a secondary education. My dad left school with no qualifications. So me saying I want to go off to university, I think was a big dynamic shift, I don't think my parents

Speaker 3:

knew

Speaker 2:

what that meant. Apart from money, it's gonna cost a lot of money and we don't really know what the outcome will be. So I went and studied got my bachelor's and then just living and working in the UK as a teaching assistant and thought could I take this skill that I have and do it abroad? So I applied for lots of different jobs all over the world. I think I applied for Sweden, jobs in Uganda, everywhere, thinking that I'd just move around. And my first job was Hong Kong and typical Hong Kong, I think story is you come here for what you think is gonna be a year or two, and then 11 years later I'm still here. Um, so it worked out well for me. So I moved here when I was 23, just turned 23 and did very much the like party lifestyle, like how every other weekend didn't really have a direction, was just very much living in the moment. And eventually remember sitting in my therapist's office when I was turning 25. This is 10 years ago now, sitting in my therapist's office going, I haven't achieved anything, haven't done anything. I should have done more with my life

Speaker:

at 25. Um.

Speaker 2:

At, yeah, at 25. Not even 25 yet. Right, because I was looking at people who had different life circumstances, who or who were significantly older than I was comparing myself being like, I should have done more with my life. And I was made head of department at my school. I was a drama teacher for a long time, so I was head of department and it just didn't feel right or exciting or fulfilling. And I was questioning what is it that I actually want to do?'cause I don't think I do want to do this for the rest of my life. And a pattern that occurred was whenever I spoke to somebody who was a psychologist or a counselor or a therapist, or a social worker at school, I would go, ah, that's such a cool job. I wish I had that job. I wish that was my job and. But then again at like 26, 27 thinking, can I really go back to university and achieve that? That's, it's such a long, uh, process to become a counselor, a psychologist, anyone working in the mental health field. It's really long and I got to 28 and I remember thinking by the time I qualify, I will be nearly 40.'cause I want to go on and do a doctorate later. I'm 34 now, so I was like, by the time I qualify and get through all of these different degrees, nearly be 40. And I thought, well you're gonna turn 40 anyway, whether you have a degree or not. Right. You're just, you, it you are gonna turn 40, so you might as well, oh my god, I love this

Speaker:

so much.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I applied for a master's in psychology, got in, then there was a global pandemic. So I was working full time trying to teach online, trying to get my master's degree, trying to navigate living in a pandemic, um, whilst also volunteering as a Samaritan, of course, at times because

Speaker:

why not add more to the,

Speaker 2:

yeah, why not do all the things. And eventually I ended up on the board of directors for, in Hong Kong because. I overachieve

Speaker 3:

much.

Speaker 2:

And then the plan was always to do the master's in psychology and then go on to do a master's of counseling. And the first time I applied, I got rejected. And it was, and this is not hyperbole, it was soul crushing.'cause here I had this timeline of we do this and then we do this, and then we do this. And it was all very like clean cut and neat. And yeah, I just didn't get into the program and I thought, well, that's that. I'm never going to achieve this goal that I have. So I went away for a year. And sulked, I'd love to say that I was graceful about it, but I wasn't. I sulk. I love it. I was so upset. But in, in hindsight and upon reflection that's how we, you know, failure is how we build resilience. Went away, spent the year getting even more qualified, doing other like certificates to kind of add to the application. Got on in the second year that I applied whilst also getting a promotion to senior leadership in my school. It was like

Speaker:

a really strong theme with overachievement here.

Speaker 2:

Overachievement. Exactly. Overachievement. So I get onto this master's program, the second master's program, and I get this promotion, senior leadership, where essentially my job was, I was the designated, safeguarding lead of our school. So. I'm responsible for child safety, child wellbeing. Wow. I was in charge of discipline as well, which completely is the other side of the spectrum. So I'm doing this whole school role, new degree, uh, working full-time and just absolutely burnt out, which shockingly tell Sapr, nobody saw that comment. Yeah. Completely burnt out. Went to my, um, like HR and management team and heads of school and said, I, I cannot do this. This is impossible. And was met with. Kind of, well, this is the job, so this is what we expect to do. You do it or you don't do it. And I very much felt like I was the failure. Like there was something wrong with me. Why? Why can't I do all of this? Um, and there was lots of very difficult conversations where I was trying to advocate for myself. Me just sitting in a room mentally and physically fatigued, going, I need help. I can't do this. And my management saying, well, God, tough. And I managed to get a reduction in teaching hours. And then at the end of the school year they said, oh so exciting that you'll be back in the classroom next year. And I went, I, I can't do all of it. So I chose to step down from my senior leadership role so that I could focus on my counseling practicum instead.'cause I knew that was coming and. Felt utterly that I just felt like such a failure because you know, you climb, success is supposed to be linear, right? It's supposed to be up, up, up, up, up we go. And I chosen to step down, which had never happened before. When I asked HR how it worked, they were like, nobody's ever quit a senior leadership role and stayed, stayed in the school. They've just left. Right? Which I couldn't do because of my practicum. Um, so yeah, felt really. Just felt crap and like I'd failed, but finished my degree and was then looking for jobs in the field. And spent a year just going, oh my God, I'm not gonna get a job. Leaving this very secure environment of having worked in schools for 15 years, which for all of their faults are very stable, right? You get income monthly. I'd worked there for 11 years. The whole time I'd been in Hong Kong. I hadn't applied for a job since I was like 23, so I spent a good year being like, oh my goodness, my, I'm literally turning my whole world upside down. I'm gonna move house. I finished my degree. I've quit my job. And I was really, really lucky that I was hired, by Mind and Life Psychology practice, back in August. So I guess that brings us up to date with all of the overachieving. Oh. And in the middle of that I ran Ultra marathon. Just as a side note, like volunteer different places. Yeah. Just how can I fill my time? With things to feel like I am worthy and have value. Right. So it was, it was absolutely nonstop, a hundred miles an hour all the time. And now really reflecting on like, you know, I guess why we're here, what is success? What does it mean? Yeah. How do we live a life of purpose?

Speaker:

Firstly, I love your story. I know when we like, obviously introduced by Santina, um, and she was just like, you have to speak to Lyndsey And then as soon as we met, I was like, this is just, I, this, there's so many things I wanna follow up with here. But the first thing I wanna talk about is, you said you had to go and advocate for yourself and you had to sit in this room and you and I was, funnily enough, I was thinking about this yesterday. Because I remember not to make it about me but I had a burnout. Yeah, please. And I remember that fight to like,'cause when you're burnt out, you're obviously exhausted and then you're suddenly having to like, call doctors and arrange like psychology appointments. And for me, like having to get antidepressants and, and all of these things. And I was like, I'm burnt out. I can't, I remember just sitting on the sofa being like, how is this so hard? A person who doesn't have burnout would struggle with this level of admin and I have burnout. And in addition to that, you are then having to say to, the people who you work for help me. And they're going, no, sorry. And I just think it's so unfair.

Speaker 2:

I think those people did think that they were helping, like we live in a ca, we live in a capitalist hellscape, right? That's right. And. I have no doubt that these people are also burn out and jaded by the system. And I remember a conversation with one woman who I basically, the messaging was, I'm doing it. Oh shit. Like I have to do it. I have to do it. Therefore,

Speaker:

so do you like this is just how it

Speaker 2:

is? Yeah and, and again, I don't think there was any malice from this person. It was just very matter of fact of this is what is, this is what is expected, and if you can't handle it, that is a personal failing of you versus a failing of the system. And I think one of the differences that I was trying to get across was, you know, I'm dealing with the. Safety and the wellbeing of children, right? So human beings are really complicated. Children and adolescents are very complicated. I'm coming to work with my nerves com. I'm dysregulated, for want of a better word. I'm completely dysregulated. I cannot show up and do my job in a psychologically safe way that benefits these kids and the people that I'm trying to serve. I'm not looking at maths curriculum. Yeah, I'm not talking about KPIs. I'm not, and my job isn't sitting in front of a computer. And of course, all of those things are very valid and very worthy in their own way. But the messaging was, I am not emotionally able to do my job well. Here are the things that I need to be able to do that job well. And I was just met with no. And I do remember one of those conversations where I said, can I bring in a colleague, a support person who I trust just to be in the room? He doesn't even have to say anything, but I'm sat with three heads of schools who are senior to me and me just going, here's a list of things that this is how I feel. Here's some evidence of what I'm doing and why this is not sustainable. And just being met with no, no, no. And I said, can I bring in this colleague? And they said, no, no, you can't bring him in. And again, now not experiencing burnout, I would've had the energy to be like, well, I can bring in whoever I want into a meeting. Right. But at the time you're just like, I, uh, you just

Speaker:

wanna lie down, don't you? You're like, enough. Yeah. Like, I just want to sleep. Leave me alone. Yeah,

Speaker 2:

yeah. I can't, and I would take days where, and not very often because I would need to be in school, but there would be days where I would go, I can't actually go to work today because I'm not capable of doing the job today, which psychological safety is really important, and if I can't do that as a professional, then I can't go in and do the job. So, yeah, it. Sucked. It sucked, for want of a better word. Um, yeah, I I do not wish burnout on my worst enemy.

Speaker:

You said you were lucky to get a job with Mind and Life. I'm interested by the terminology because do you think you were unlucky when you didn't get on the Master's program the first time round?

Speaker 2:

It's so interesting. When I was growing up whenever we were given a gift or whenever anything nice happened, my mom would always say, oh, aren't you lucky? Somebody's giving you this. Aren't you lucky you've got a gift? Aren't you lucky? And I do think that's a really nice. Phrase in terminology.'cause I think what my mom was trying to instill in us was to not be entitled to things, right? As a 3-year-old, right? Oh, you're very lucky to have this thing. But I think as I grow up and as I navigate the world, I still have a, and maybe it's a working class thing of I shouldn't be here. Every opportunity I have had is luck. It couldn't possibly be because of anything that I have done. And I know that if my therapist is listening, hi, I love that. I know that that is a maladaptive core belief, right? That. If I examine the evidence, I know that on a logical level, the hard work and kind of my own gumption is what has got me here. I persist at things but it doesn't come naturally to me to walk into a space, especially like an academically rigorous space and go, I deserve to be here. So I guess that term of lucky comes from, Ooh, I'm not entitled to this, nobody, I'm not entitled to a job, right? I'm not entitled to get onto a master's program. I'm not entitled to anything. It is. Very fortunate. I guess there's a sense of privilege in it of, you know, I'm a white woman who lives in Asia, and a cis woman. There is a, there's a, I'm not blind to the privilege that I have in terms of being able to get into these spaces in the first place. So I guess maybe that's where that comes from. And lucky in the sense that I quit my job as a teacher in anger almost. It was a thought through decision, but there was a, I cannot possibly go back to the classroom for another year, best find another job. And luckily was hired. There's a deep sense of gratitude to go, oh, I am. Where I am. And I'm not entitled to any of it, but I'm lucky to

Speaker 4:

have it.

Speaker:

It's so important to acknowledge our privilege and, to be extremely aware of that. I think there's a difference between entitlement and deserving to be somewhere. And I would argue that having three degrees and having, you've probably got more than three. Is it three or is it, are we, oh, she's pulling a face. Go on.

Speaker 4:

I have a bachelor's degree. I have a teaching certificate. I have two master's degrees, right? Yeah.

Speaker:

Yep. There we go. Enough.

Speaker 4:

She's got enough, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker:

And I think

Speaker 4:

fair enough,

Speaker:

entitlement's a really interesting, particularly as women, I think, because you often use the word entitlement about women. She's, who does she think she is? You don't often talk about men like that. And that's a whole other thing. But I think, whether or not you deserve to be where you are. Mm-hmm. I would argue very much so. Mm-hmm. Like, and it wasn't, I would also say I don't think it's lucky that you quit your job. I think it was incredibly brave and there are very, very few people who would go, do you know what? I'm willing to turn that snow globe, that is my life upside down and shake everything into the air and just sit while it falls and see what comes out. Particularly as we get older. I moved to Hong Kong, I think I was about 25, 26. And it was just like, I was just having fun. Yeah. Like it's just fun and then suddenly for some reason, yeah. I think it's because it's possibly the biological clock thing. Everything sort of becomes more serious as you get older. And then actually to be like, nah, fuck this. It's not right. And this is not the life I've chosen for myself. And so, yeah, I don't think it is lucky that you quit your job. I think it's a very brave step. And also a show of belief in yourself, whether or not you wanna see that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I think that there was a, I think there was, when I had my exit interview at school, one of the things that I said was, these are the reasons that I'm leaving, but I'm also leaving because. As a company, as a school, you deserve to have an employee who wants to be here and you deserve to have an employee who isn't resentful. And I could have gone to work for the next 10 years and been resentful and been bitter and argued and being combative. I could have done that or I could have done what was better for everyone, myself included, which was to go, okay, I've spent the last God, 6, 7, 8 years pursuing this career. Let me give it a go even if it is completely outside of my realm of expertise, right? I, I don't know what it means to work by commission. And I don't know what it means to not have school holidays and I don't know what it means to live in a world outside of a school campus. Yeah, it's terrifying. But I guess to your point of bravery, right? Courage is not the absence of fear. It's being afraid and doing the thing anyway. And yeah, let's see how it all turns out.'cause it's still feels very new and different and exciting and terrifying. But I think some of the people that I admire the most in the world are people who have taken risks and pursued things that they care about. Versus staying in a life and choosing a life that doesn't serve them and makes them deeply unhappy.

Speaker:

What does success mean to you?

Speaker 2:

Okay. I'm such a nerd that I was like, I'm gonna look up the definition of love,

Speaker:

success,

Speaker 4:

love. Yes. Like

Speaker 2:

in the dictionary, like, what does it actually mean? And so the dictionary defines success in three ways. The first being the accomplishment of an aim. The second one, the attainment of fame, wealth, and social status. And the third A triumph.

Speaker 3:

Oh,

Speaker 2:

A triumph. Okay. And I thought to myself, I don't know if success, I mean, do not get me wrong. I think number two, the attainment of fame, wealth, and social status is definitely what we are taught to believe. For sure. That success means. Yes, definitely what capitalism would say that, that success is. But I was thinking a lot about what I used to think success was, which was this linear process of just climbing the ladder and basically success was a salary increase and maybe a job title. In the past that's what success meant. But now when I think about success, I think about out, are. My goals aligned with my values. So good. There's a theory of therapy called acceptance and commitment therapy, and it's very goals oriented. And essentially, I'm gonna put it in like real layman's terms, is we often choose behaviors that make us feel good in the moment, right? So we're very, emotion driven creatures. So I'm feeling a certain way, I'm gonna choose a behavior that makes me feel best the quickest. And oftentimes what we find. Is that those behaviors may not necessarily be good for us in the long term and they may not align with what our goals actually are. So when I was Hong Kong party girl, I would feel great in the moment, but then I would feel terrible in the long term. Whereas, and so we call these like hooking behaviors'cause they hookers and they just feel so good in the moment. Whereas what acceptance commitment therapy argues is what are my, what are my goals and do my behaviors actually align with those goals? And oftentimes they don't make us feel very good in the moment. Right? When I was, eyebrow deep in thesis writing and doing my practicum and. Being rejected from a program that felt really crap in the moment. It didn't feel good, but it aligned with my values of, education and empathy and like being of service. So in the moment I was like, I don't want to do this essay. I don't wanna get up at 5:00 AM to go for a run. I don't wanna do these things'cause they don't feel good right now. They're not hitting my dopamine. Yeah. But in the long term, they align with my values and they feel they, they build a life that I feel good in and that I'm proud of. So I was really thinking about that when I was thinking about success and how do our goals align with our values. And then within that. Does that include psychological flexibility? Ooh. So like I said, I had that really rigid, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And when reality didn't align with that, it completely destroyed my entire self-concept because I wasn't able to be psychologically flexible or resilient. So making sure that we also have the room to be able to go with the flow in a way it's like trees, right? In a typhoon. If a tree is flexible, it's not gonna bend and snare. But if, if we are too rigid, the second that we're hit with any kind of adversity we, you know, so yeah, I. I thought it was really interesting, that kind of dictionary definition of success, which very much felt like verbs of accomplish attain like it's constantly doing. Whereas I think there is, in terms of my definition, do my goals align with my values? There definitely is a sense of doing in there, but I also think there is a, a big sense of just being and can I be with myself and can I choose what's good for me in the long term? Even if I'm feeling uncomfortable with the uncertainty of it all,

Speaker:

I'm just gonna let that land. Just gonna take a little pause while everyone really soaks that in. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's hard.

Speaker:

It is hard.

Speaker 2:

It's hard to

Speaker:

do. But firstly, thanks for doing so much research on what's actual success. You're welcome. Thank you. You're welcome. Bringing the academia of this podcast up significantly. When you talk about values, there's quite a lot of ways you can define your values, right? Tell me how you defined your values. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The honest truth is that there is literally a list when we talk about acceptance, commitment therapy, there's. And it's a really great activity that I do with clients. I work with a lot of teens and a lot of teenagers and teenagers are wonderful at really living in the moment and like going with the flow. But what can be really negative about that is they just do what feels good. Yeah. Right. Now is this gonna feel good for me? Right now? It can be quite impulsive at times. And so there is, and I will send it to you. Please do.

Speaker:

If

Speaker 2:

you want, we can maybe we can

Speaker:

link it in the chat as well in the notes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. But there's this activity where basically you get, I think it's, I wanna say 36, but I will, we will fact check that. And you basically, you go through it. And you can list what your top 10 are and then work your way through it until you end up with what your top values are. But what I think is so interesting about it is your values do change as you transition and move into different parts of your life. And so again, when I was thinking about the definition of success, one of the things that I really wanted to emphasize was, it's also all right to change your mind and your values and your goals do change.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And what I wanted when I was 19 is very different to what I wanted at 25. It's very different to what I want at 34. And I don't think any of those are wrong. It's not oh, as I've aged and I've gotten more wise, I've learned. That was wrong and that I'm now, right. And that's where the psychological flexibility comes in of if we are so tied to an idea of ourselves and we're not willing to change, then I think we get ourselves into a lot of trouble. I would often start off with teens with doing this exercise with them or sending them home with this exercise to help guide them of what are the things that are important to you. And it looks very different for lots of people, and people tend to define words differently as well, which I think is also great. And then once. We've identified them, then we can start picking those goals and those behaviors that align with our values. But you're right, I don't think most people know what their values are, because as children, we are either told, this is what you should be aiming for, or we have that, dictionary definition of success being fame, wealth, and social status. Which I mean, I've never chased fame, although maybe this podcast will, uh, she's going viral, everyone,

Speaker 3:

all of that.

Speaker 2:

But wealth, I've definitely, chased to a certain point of do I have enough money that I'm comfortable in social status. In a way, it's something that I've also chased. And yes, the wealth. Certainly removed anxiety from my life, financial anxiety. But none of those things made me particularly, I don't wanna use the word happy,'cause I don't think happiness should be a goal, but it didn't make me feel fulfilled or give me purpose. So yeah, I encourage everyone have a sit down, reflect maybe, it's not something we think about very often. What are the things that we value?

Speaker:

Yeah. You're so right.

Speaker 2:

And then how can we work towards building a life that reflects that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I've been thinking a lot recently about permission and giving ourselves permission and like that kind of agency we have in our own lives. And I think many of us don't think we do. We'll say we should or I have to, or la la, la, la. And mm-hmm. I think actually saying to everyone, you have permission to define your values, and also you have permission to let go of who you thought you were gonna be when you were 21 or when you were 17. I love this notion of psychological flexibility. I've never heard it before, now I'm gonna use it all the time. I have had therapy, and then you become a different version of yourself and how the people around you react to that. And then it's not just you changing and it's not just you like showing up differently. It's how then that affects the dynamic of every social circumstance that you find yourself in, whether that's your family, whether that's your friends, and you sort of have to make peace with the fact that some people will step away from you because you are not the person who they want you to be anymore. But that's really hard. Yes,

Speaker 2:

yes. You've got me thinking about Carl Rogers, who is this kind of very famous person, centered psychologist, and he has this theory of congruence. Congruence is just a really fancy word for am I being authentic? Mm-hmm. And in therapy, People know when you're not being authentic. Um, as a therapist, we, it's something that we really strive to be, but he has this concept of the real self and the ideal self. Mm-hmm. So it's like a, think of a Venn diagram, right? Of the real self is the, who am I, The ideal self is who could I be in the ideal circumstances, like full potential met And so with this Venn diagram, be larger, that middle portion. So the further away the, the real self and the ideal self are the more people struggle. Yeah. Because who they want to be, who they want permission to be and who they are. Doesn't align. But what we see and what we try to do in therapy is to narrow that Venn diagram and also have an overlap of giving, what you were saying, giving people permission to be, who could I be if I met my full potential in the ideal circumstances, if I am to be who I really want to be. And again, like you said, changing your mind in that that changes and moves. But I couldn't help but think about that when you were talking about transition and change and permission and how people view us and how that peer pressure, if I'm going to use that term, keeps us stuck. Or even the perceived peer pressure of, well, I have to be X, Y, Z. Because insert core belief about what I think other people are gonna think of me if I'm not X, y, Z, and how much of that is real. Yeah. And how much of that is a story that we tell ourselves. But I know that when I went from Macau party girl to I'm gonna run ultra marathons and get a master's degree, I had no friends for a year because the social circles that I was in completely changed. I didn't have anything in common with people anymore. And that was hard. But, again, good for me in the long term. Yeah.

Speaker:

But an incredibly challenging decision to make at the time. We've touched on some of these. Yeah. But tell me what challenges you've had to overcome.

Speaker 2:

I was reflecting on that and, you know, partially myself.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Being my biggest obstacle, was one of the things that I, that, that came to me. First of all, all my preconceived notions of who I was and what I could be and what I could achieve. I think I. I tripped myself up a lot and, put limitations, definitely put limitations on myself. So I think that was, I think I was, and continue to be in many ways, probably my biggest obstacle. But yeah the rejection from the second master's program was really challenging. And then ironically, then getting onto it whilst getting a promotion, which then led to burnout. The irony of not getting it and then getting it, I'm reflecting on this literally now as I speak, not getting it was really hard. And then getting it

Speaker 4:

also really hard was

Speaker 2:

also really hard. Hard. Yeah. And I guess to tie that all into kind of myself being my biggest obstacle my therapist likes to say Good enough is good enough.

Speaker 3:

Mm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I know I roll my eyes on that one. Good enough. But I think lots of women, when we set our minds to do things, we want to do it really well. And so I was working 12 hour days and then I was going to lectures for three hours on a night, and then I was getting maybe four or five hours sleep. And I was like, I need to get an A on this paper. And funnily enough, as somebody who's been a teacher for a really long time, I would always say to students, it's not about the grade, it's about the learning. Did you learn the thing as a student I'd completely ignore my own advice? Like I must get the top grades. So I would spend, the difference between a b plus and an A minus. It was probably like five or six hours extra work. And when you are experiencing burnout and you don't have a lot of time to play with, that's quite significant. But I would insist on putting in that extra five or six hours to get that a when could I have passed with a C grade? Mm-hmm. Yes. I could have, could I have learned just as much with a C grade? Yeah. Being a martyr and being a perfectionist and. Wanting to show. I was gonna say, show the world. Show who, right. Needing to prove to someone something myself. That, I have to be the best to be worthy of being here. So yeah. Those, myself and capitalism, and I'm gonna come back and blame capitalism. Yeah. But that, like, that system that is set up to, to take everything from you. And not having the strength to go good enough is good enough. I don't need to prove my worth. I don't need to prove my value with a letter grade or a number on a paper that, you know upon. Finishing. I barely remember. But the time feels so important. Yeah.

Speaker:

You've said you're gonna go on to do a doctorate. Do you think, I don't really know how doctorates work. I dunno if you get grades, but like, do you think you would take, if you were to do this again, would you still be pushing for the a

Speaker 2:

I'd love to say no. I'd love to say no and I'm, and I as I'm saying no right now, I do mean it. But I'm also wondering how, going back to that congruence and that ideal self and that real self, do I believe that I can be my ideal self with. Good enough is good enough. I hope so. I hope that I have enough experience to recognize when I am being pulled towards my more maladaptive thoughts. But to be confirmed. Would I give somebody else this advice? Absolutely. Are we always capable of taking out own advice?

Speaker:

Maybe let's do a little experiment'cause we can immortalize your own advice to your future self in this podcast.

Speaker 2:

Love experiment. So. Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Lyndsey when do you, when are you looking to start the doctorate? What does this look like?

Speaker 2:

I would say I, I think I need a rest. Maybe 2027. Okay, so 2027,

Speaker:

Lyndsey is sitting down, she's starting her first paper for the doctorate. What advice do you have for her?

Speaker 2:

Maybe good enough is good enough maybe to plagiarize my own therapist words. Great. Good. Good enough is good enough. And, questioning whose voice? Yes. Is it? Whose voice is this? When I have those core beliefs, those maladaptive thoughts, like that cognition turning, whose voice is this? And does this serve me? And does this align with my values? And if the answer is no. Then, okay what behavior can we

Speaker:

choose instead? I love this so much, but I'm gonna have to set a reminder for two years time to resend you this. We've actually gone the other way. Like I just, this is kind of how it's gone, but what, given that we've just given your future self advice, what advice would you give to your younger self? And would it be the same?

Speaker 2:

I think it would be the same. Oh, I love that. Great. That it's the

Speaker:

same. I think that's actually, the consistency in that is really nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I do think it would be trust the process good enough is good enough. And the reason that I picked this profession is'cause I really care. I'm such a nerd for it. I love the human condition. I love people's brains. I, I think it is fascinating. So whereas with teaching, I think that there's incredible amount of value in teaching. Mm-hmm. And teaching being the silver bullet and it levels the playing field and it, I think ed education will stay an important value to me, but in terms of. F the fulfillment that I got out of it. I love psychology, I love counselling. It fascinates me. So even without that kind of bully in my head, telling me to do X, Y, Z, the passion and the interest and the care is all still there. I used to believe that we could hate ourselves into improving ourselves. Wow. You can hate yourself. And I think, you know, I speak to any woman

Speaker:

who, who's been on a diet is a

Speaker 2:

little bit insecure, that is exactly where my brain was going.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Right. We truly believe that we can hate ourselves happy. That if I, if I just bully myself enough, if I hate myself enough, then I will achieve X, Y, z. I dunno why the conflict, what is it? The special care diets just come into my head. Oh my

Speaker:

God. Right? Oh my God.

Speaker 2:

Right. You guys can just eat two bowls of cereal a day. Yeah. That'll be enough. Then I will be my ideal self. Mm-hmm. But with this, I don't need to hate myself good at it because I already really love it. So the bully actually isn't serving me because I'm already doing the thing. So why make it harder for myself? Yeah. And again, whose voice is the bully? God, I love this. But yeah, you can't hate yourself happy. You can't hate yourself successful because you'll end up in a life that you do

Speaker:

not love, you don't enjoy.

Speaker 2:

Or you, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I think my advice to my future self and my younger self would be exactly the same.

Speaker:

I really love that. Got that Special K diet. You've really taken me back there. But yeah, everyone who grew up in the uk, every woman who grew up in the UK in, I'm gonna say like the early two thousands, we'll know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Pop culture reference. If you eat two bowls of cereal a day, you will be your ideal self. I could

Speaker:

even still see the woman in the advert in her black swimsuit, and she was curvy and she was on holiday and she was like, oh my God, I'm so happy because I only ate cereal. I mean, there

Speaker 2:

There was definitely a tape measure

Speaker 3:

on

Speaker 2:

the, there was a tape measure on the box Advertis, remember? Yeah.

Speaker:

Oh my God. Wow.

Speaker 2:

Honestly, how any of us have come out, unscathed from the naughties. I will never, I dunno that we

Speaker:

did, this might be similar, but what permission do you want to give others through your story? I

Speaker 2:

permission to fail. Permission to try and permission to fail. And the reason that I say fail specifically is because confidence and resilience doesn't come from success. It actually comes from. failing safely.

Speaker:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

Um, so yeah, that, that example that I have, that I'm clearly over my own rejection.

Speaker 4:

Oh

Speaker 2:

yeah, for sure. But it did make me, I'm totally over it. It clearly made me a more resilient person and working with families and working with children in particular I see this phenomenon of, you know the term helicopter parents? Yes. So there is another term, lawnmower parents. So they go out in front of their kids and they mow the lawn and they're basically removing all the obstacles in their children's path to create this smooth, walkway into the world. I'm gonna remove any obstacle any potential rejection, any potential failure, right? And when we do that, we build kids who have no sense of resilience.'cause then what happens is they will be inevitably faced with hardship and failure and they don't have the psychological flexibility, the tools to be able to handle that failure. And then, we give up or, fall into a depression or, whatever it is. So giving people the permission to try and fail and see where that gets us.'cause oftentimes we don't even start things because we're worried that we're gonna fail. Yep. But start the podcast, start the business, you know, quit the job. Do the thing. And if we go into it with the mindset of this could fail, which it might aren't we better for having, you know, we talk about, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Regret.

Speaker 3:

Hmm.

Speaker 2:

And what we know in psychology is that people don't often regret the things that they do. They regret the things that they don't do. The regret of not doing something lasts significantly longer than the regret of trying and failing. So yeah, do the thing. Fail and then try again. And I think you will get so much more out of life and learn. So much about your potential and what you're capable of. If you give yourself the permission to try and fail it. I really believe that. Yeah.

Speaker:

Are we sitting with that? Yeah. Let's sit with it. We're sitting with it. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna sit with it. Yeah. Fail. Yeah. I also really love the lawnmower parent thing. Like it's, yeah. It's huge. Yeah. I've never heard that before. Yes. I love it. Well, I don't love it. I can see that it would be very challenging, but, um Yeah. Yeah. That we're going the other way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. We're so worried about how our children feel that. We try and control it. We don't want, it is almost like mental health knowledge is swung entirely the other way. Whereas we have all this information now about mental health and parents are, almost trapped by, I don't want my child to have any uncomfortable emotions. How can I make their life as easy as possible? Which is, what everyone wants for young people, right? Nobody wants young people to have a difficult, hard life. But when we remove obstacles for them, we deny them the permission to build a self-concept and to learn those school those skills. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's something I see a lot lawnmower parents. Yeah.

Speaker:

Do you think there's also a lot of people who are terrified that their children are gonna end up in therapy? I briefly lived with a, um, a child psychiatrist who was one of my housemates, for only a couple of months. And I was chatting to her one night and she was like, the thing is everyone will fuck up their kids. The plan is just to not fuck them up too much and make sure there's enough money for therapy. Yeah. And I was just like, that's great. Yeah. Because you do the best you can until you know better. Right. I think

Speaker 2:

yes, you do your best. We're all just out here doing our best. It's all our first time mm-hmm. Being people. Right. I've never been a person before, really know what I'm doing. And I think there's an ego part to it as well of if I am putting my child in therapy. Am I admitting that, quote, unquote, I've done something wrong, which is never, this is not the case. And also as a teacher and as a therapist who works with children, I love kids, right? I hear a lot of, like, I don't want to put them in therapy or I, I don't want them labeling, that's the big term here. I don't want my child labeling because I don't want them to be treated differently. And actually, I love kids. I love working with young people. That's why I chose to do this job. So if anything, I'm not the person that's gonna do that. So yeah, I think that there's an ego and a fear of, I failed if I, if this is the outcome, if my child does need therapy, which honestly we all do. We all do. We all need

Speaker 3:

therapy.

Speaker 2:

I give people permission to go to therapy. If anyone needs permission,

Speaker 4:

what is there? You

Speaker:

can go, yeah. Up.

Speaker 4:

Yes, please go.

Speaker:

Are you ready for quickfire? Lyndsey Gormley?

Speaker 2:

Oh my God. I don't know.

Speaker:

I believe you are.

Speaker 2:

I will try. Okay.

Speaker:

Okay. Hit me one word to describe your current relationship with success. Flexible. Your non-negotiable boundary that protects you from burnout. Oh,

Speaker 2:

good enough is good enough.

Speaker:

Complete this. Yeah. You have permission to. Fail

Speaker 2:

and go to therapy, but fail. You have permission to fail. Love it.

Speaker:

What does rest look like for you?

Speaker 2:

Ooh, I'm so bad at it. Notoriously difficult at it, but right now it's waking up and sitting on my patio and reading a book. That is what rest looks like for me at the moment. But rest is very, physical, rest, psychological, rest, lots of different kinds of rest. But right now it's very physical.

Speaker:

I love it. I love it. Sit with a book.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker:

One thing you wish more women knew about building a sustainable career. Uh.

Speaker 2:

That we live in a capitalist hellscape and that the system is not designed for us to succeed in it, and burnout is not a personal feeling. It is a systematic failure. And in order to build a sustainable career for women, acknowledging that careers and the world that we live in right now just isn't set up to help us succeed. It's not you, it's capitalism.

Speaker:

Amen. The success metric that matters the most to you right now.

Speaker 2:

Is what I am about to do. Does this align with my values? Is this gonna make me feel good in the moment or in the long term? So like my shortcut to that is like, do good to feel good. Do the thing that feels good even when you don't wanna do it. I didn't wanna go to a networking event yesterday'cause I hate networking, but I went and I met some really interesting people, listened to a really interesting conversation and had a great time. And yeah, that aligned with my values.

Speaker:

I love it. And lastly, what makes you feel successful Af?

Speaker 2:

Getting to surround yourself with women who are successful in their own way and to celebrate women. That's, I think when I feel the most successful. We were introduced because of Santina. Which, if you haven't listened to her episode, go back and listen to her episode. Um,'cause we love, Santina. But hearing, hearing another woman celebrate you, how is that not the definition of success?

Speaker:

Yeah. Oh, this has been such a great conversation. I feel like we could have this conversation for the rest of the day, but we won't. Because people have things to do. Tell us how we find you. So we can link you all you in everything in the chat, but like how do we find you if we wanna work with you, like where are you at? What's going on? Tell us.

Speaker 2:

So I have an Instagram account, which is Lindsey Gormley Psych. So at Lyndsey Gormley psych. You can also find me@mindandlife.com. So that's M-I-N-D-N life LIF e.com. Yeah, that's where I am on the internet. Please come find me. I do just wanna say in the vein of celebrating women. What you are doing is great, and I think it's really, really wonderful that you are highlighting the voices of women in particular. And as somebody who has burnt a candle at both ends, the fact that you are doing this holding down a job, just trying to be a person and stay hydrated and have a social life is amazing. So I also just wanna take the opportunity to, on the record, celebrate you as well.'cause it's not an easy task and it's very brave to start up something when you don't know where it's gonna lead. So Jess, I think your successful af.

Speaker:

Aw, thanks.

Speaker 7:

Before we wrap up, I'm so excited to share something that Lindsay and I are doing together. After this conversation, we realized we needed to take these insights further, so we're hosting a free workshop called Find Your Balance Blueprint. This is all about helping you achieve real work-life balance, and we're bringing two perspectives to the table. Lindsay's expertise as a psychologist and my experience as a burnout coach. We'll be exploring practical strategies for managing stress, setting boundaries, and prioritizing your wellbeing so you can actually thrive both at work and at home. The workshop is happening on October 23rd, 12:00 PM to 1:00 PM GMT, or seven to 8:00 PM Hong Kong time. It's completely free on Zoom. Whether you're struggling with burnout, feeling overwhelmed, or you just want to create better balance in your life, this session is for you. You can find the registration link in the show notes. We look forward to seeing you there.

Speaker 5:

Thank you so much for listening today and a huge thank you to Lyndsey for sharing her story with us. Lyndsey's journey from believing she could hate herself into success, and also how deep does that resonate oh my God, that hit me so hard. That one, to understanding that good enough truly is good enough, really struck. Her honesty about being her own biggest obstacle about perfectionism and the exhaustion that comes with constantly trying to prove your worth through grades and achievement is something that so many of us can relate to. I loved her redefinition of success Around values rather than traditional metrics. The insight from acceptance and commitment therapy about choosing behaviors that serve our long-term goals rather than what feels good in the moment, is something I'll be thinking about for a long time. Her emphasis on psychological flexibility, the idea that we can bend without breaking when life doesn't go according to our rigid plans feels essential for navigating modern life. If this week's episode of Successful AF has resonated with you, I want to hear about it. Drop me a line at successful AF pod@gmail.com. I'm always looking for inspirational people to join me on the pod, so if you know someone who you think would be great, nominate them or yourself. And also please do like and subscribe. It really does help, and I really appreciate you being here.