World Cup Special - The Damned United (BONUS)

This week on The Dad Book Club Podcast, we're diving into The Damned Utd by David Peace, the bestselling football novel that explores the infamous 44 days of legendary manager Brian Clough at Leeds United.

We compare the book, audiobook and film adaptation, discussing David Peace's intense writing style, the non-linear narrative, Brian Clough's obsession with Don Revie and Leeds United, and why the novel feels less like a football story and more like a psychological character study.

We also explore the outstanding John Simm audiobook narration, Michael Sheen's portrayal of Brian Clough in The Damned United film, and ask whether the movie is actually an adaptation at all—or something entirely different.

As a host from Derby, there's also a personal connection to the story, with discussion of Derby County, Brian Clough, Peter Taylor, Leeds United, English football history, football rivalries and the legacy of one of football's most fascinating figures.

In this episode:

⚽ Brian Clough's 44 days at Leeds United

⚽ The Damned Utd book review

⚽ The Damned United movie review

⚽ John Simm audiobook review

⚽ Michael Sheen as Brian Clough

⚽ David Peace's unique writing style

⚽ Derby County and Brian Clough's legacy

⚽ Don Revie and Dirty Leeds

⚽ Football books worth reading

⚽ Sports novels and football literature

⚽ Book vs film adaptation discussion

⚽ Was Brian Clough a genius or a nightmare?

If you enjoy football books, football history, World Cup discussions, Premier League stories, sports documentaries, audiobook reviews, book-to-film comparisons, Leeds United history, Derby County history, Brian Clough documentaries, football podcasts and sports storytelling, this episode is for you.

#TheDamnedUnited #BrianClough #LeedsUnited #DerbyCounty #FootballBooks #BookReview #MovieReview #AudiobookReview #WorldCup #FootballPodcast #TheDadBookClubPodcast #DavidPeace #MichaelSheen #JohnSimm #SportsBooks #FootballHistory

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome back to Is the Book Better? The show where we read books, we listen to audiobooks, watch the adaptations, and then spend far too much time discussing whether the book is better or whether the film is more worth your time. Now, you've all met the person who said this to you, you've told them you've watched a film, they go, Oh, was it good? And you go, Yeah, and they go, Well, the book's better. And this podcast asks, is it? Is it always the case? And so far, kinda. That has kind of been the case, but I'm still looking for the ones that take the book and elevate it to something else and still tell the story that it needed to tell in an hour and a half to two hours. Because we all live busy lives. Recommending a book to someone is very difficult because a lot of people say you've got to read this book. It's one of a series of twelve, it doesn't get good in the series until about the third book, and blah blah blah blah blah. And people are like, I can't invest that, I can't do that. I can't. It's hard enough telling someone to watch a film, you know. So in these busy lives, I'm just weeding through all the films that have come from books and telling you which one's worth your time. Whether it is worth sitting down and reading a big thicky boy book, or whether the film does the job. And today that is no different because we are taking on the damned United. Because oh yeah, uh, I need like some sound effects here. Da-da-da-do-do, Vu Vuzella going off. It's a World Cup special. Wha yeah, it's a World Cup special. Um, there aren't many World Cup books that have become films, in fact, there are zero. So I have just done football ones as a little because obviously the episodes come out every two weeks, these ones are going to be slotted in between as a little bit of a fun sprinkle for the World Cup, and you know, hopefully more people see the podcast because they're Googling World Cup podcasts, and I'll hopefully pop up. You know, it you've got to do that, you've got to be in the algorithm. So that's what I'm going for. And I thought I've seen The Damned United quite a few times, but I've never read the book. It's been on my shelf for god knows how long. Let's do it. And I didn't actually read the book in the end, I listened to the audiobook, but still, it counts. I had a four-hour drive, it's a four-hour audiobook. You do the maths. Tricky one that. Oh, and by the way, Christ, admin terrible. Spoilers throughout this. This also happened 50 years ago, so I don't even know if I need to give a spoiler warning there. But after listening to the audiobook, this isn't a football book at all. Football is just the background of what is obsession, ego, grudges. It's about men who cannot let things go, namely a certain man who cannot let things go. So if you somehow manage to avoid a story based on events that happened 50 years ago, and you'd like to go in completely blind, now is your chance. Stop here, go read the book, go watch the film, listen to the audiobook, then come back. And so for everyone else who's happy to go ahead, let's get into it. And I think we're gonna have to start with the book. Yeah, let's start with the book. Oh no, first, the Derby connection. One of the reasons I was excited to pick this book up is because I'm from Derby. You know, it's just as exotic as it sounds. Um, is like when someone says they're from LA. That's the kind of uh like feeling people get when you say you're from Derby, they're like, oh I'm sorry. So unlike the other books we've covered where they've gone all over the place, this one felt very familiar, and it was kind of just like a you know that DiCaprio meme where he's like and he's clicking and pointing at the screen. That's what it was like listening to the audiobook. I was just hearing places. I was hearing the Kettleson Road Hotel, no, Kettleson, the Midland Hotel and the Kedleston Hall Hotel. I was hearing those outside, oh I can picture this. Oh my god, he's been to the Midland Hotel. That's mad because that is a big Derby County pub. So it's like, oh, that's crazy, that makes sense now. But you know, I was I was hearing the streets, I was hearing about the club, I was hearing about the baseball ground, the different names, the places, footballers I haven't even thought of for years that I've heard about in passing, that I've heard in chance, he's now having a chat with them, probably calling them a twat, you know. So I think that really benefited my experience of this because I got to have that little bit of like I've been there, oh I've been there. So for a lot of readers, Derby County is just another football club. For me, it's been a huge part of growing up around here. You can't not see Pride Park. You know, I I remember I used to go to my cousin's house, and on a match day at night, if you went into a room, you would see the lights of Pride Park from her bedroom. That's how close you live to it. So that was pretty cool. So yeah, I thought I'd just throw in there and dox myself that I live in Derby still. Um But yeah, let's get into the book. Personal connection over, you know, I'm being I'm being all sentimental. Let's get into it. This book is absolutely relentless. Um people have said like David Pierce's writing is hypnotic and genius, but I've also seen people describe it as annoying, and I kind of see all angles. There are some uh chapters where I was like, oh fucking hell. Like this is I I feel like I'm having a manic episode. That's what it felt like. The structure is wild, the timeline jumps around like crazy. You're in Leeds, then you're in Derby, then a year late, then you're years later, then you're back again, then you're before he even left for the previous chapter, then another memory happens, then another conversation, and another argument. And it's just like this da da da da da da da da da da da da da. And at first I was like, have I fucking missed something? I thought it was what's happening here because I'd seen the film, so I knew it's quite a linear film, but I was just like, What? What is going on? Maybe I wasn't concentrating, I was like, lock in, lock into the audiobook, because you know when you're driving you kind of go autopilot. So I was like, what is happening? Then I eventually realised the book wasn't trying to be straightforward, and the structure makes sense because it is how Brian Clough thinks each chapter is hyper-focused on one event, and that's how he is. He is hyper-focused on something, he is fast, he's obsessive, he's messy in in so many ways, he's messy, and it's crazy that the author used that form to reinforce his character. Like that's that is how it came across that I genuinely got like because there's so many times where he's up at 2.30 in the morning because well no, he's still awake at 2.30 because he can't get to sleep because his brain is working over time. You're in that brain, you really are, and honestly, it wasn't great to be in there, if I'm honest. I didn't I didn't want to be in there for some chapters. I was I was in and out of the car all day, and I was like, I'm I'm kind of glad I'm having a breather. I'm enjoying it, but it was it's so obsessive and almost sad because he's really trying to prove himself, and it's this I don't think self-fulfilling prophecy is correct. In a way, he's so terrified of becoming a failure compared to Don Don Reevy. Don Reavy, Don Revey, Don Reevy, that he ends up becoming a failure when he tries to do what Don Reevy's done. So that's what I got from it. He became what he most feared, which really is a shame because obviously he he was obviously he he did a lot, but he could have done so much more. And it all comes back to proving someone wrong and how the football is secondary and he is fuelled by vengeance and revenge. It's not just like a sporting rivalry where he's like, Oh yeah, we go way back, we've we've played a lot, he's won 40, I've won 30, I wanna, you know, I want to be in the positive column. He's fixated on Don Reevy, and those bits in the book where he's like dirty leads, dirty bloody leads, Don Reevy, back to leads, back to Reevy, back to Grudge, again and again and again. That's what it's like. And John Tim's very good at a Brian Clough accent, but that's what it's like over and over again. Fucking twat, cunt, cun, cunt, like it's so intense. And I'm like, oh um, it's funny at first, but then it is uncomfortable because you're wondering if he's just if he's saying that to the people that he's around. It's like you've got to move on for your own sanity, mate. You've got to move on, and all the while you know it fails. Everything what he does at Leeds fails. So when he's trying to have these moments where he's like, they won't be dirty fucking Leeds when I'm there, they'll be they'll play clean, they'll play well, they'll win better than when Don Reevy was there, they'll win better. He won the league, but I'll win it fair, I'll win it better. And I'm like, you're there for 44 days, I know this isn't coming true, and you're going all the wrong ways about it. So I it's it is crazy to me that the football culture that a manager can be hired and binned off in 44 days. I'm not sure if that was a done for thing back in the day. I've seen it a few times in the modern game, but back in the day, 44 days, how are you meant to do anything with that? But all you hear about is why leads represents everything he hates, why their football is wrong, their culture, their manager, everything about the club is wrong, and then he takes the job. And I was like and I I found myself like thinking, I'm gonna have to Google why he took this job. And I'm like, am I stupid? Why did he take this job? He hates them. So even in him being successful there, he wouldn't achieve anything for himself because he fucking hates them. I I don't I it it didn't it didn't make sense for me, but I guess that's what makes him fascinating because he left a club that loved him, he left a club where the players were willing to strike to keep him there. He resigned from there, in part, part shoved out, but still. And he goes to this club that he absolutely hates when people are loads of people are offering him jobs and he bins them all off to go to this club he hates, just to prove this one guy who did him wrong when he first started playing wrong. That's what he wants to do. He wants to prove this guy wrong, he wants to outdo this guy, and in his drive to do that, he fucks the whole thing up. So you never really know what you're gonna get from him. You don't know whether you're gonna get absolute genius or complete madness, and the book never really lets on. You don't know how a chapter's gonna go. He's charismatic sometimes, then he's impossible, then he's inspirational and witty, then he's self-destructive, it's he's best mates with Graham Taylor, then he's fucking he's hating him, calling him a fat cunt, you know, yeah, he's a fucking fucking fat cunt, you know, and he's like, oh fuck off, oh fuck off. That's that was John Sim's way of saying fuck off, oh fuck off, is incredible. If audiobooks, I assume audiobooks could win awards, but this one must have because he's so good. That's probably the only reason I kept listening and didn't have to have as many breaks is because John Sim was just fantastic. And I'll get into that now because David Pease was trying to do. He doesn't narrate the book, he performs this book. It is a monologue. The reputation's hit harder. He's the anger, the humour, the paranoia and obsession is so well done, and he really elevates the page, I think. I don't think I would have been able to sit down and read this book because those repetitions would have been like would have been like, alright, fucking come on, I get it. Yeah, rule three, let's go. Boring. But at times I genuinely thought it was Brian Clover. I forgot it was John Sim. I was like, oh but they got Brian Clover, that's crazy. That's fucking crazy. So that was entertaining for four hours. And Sim hits you know, hits the beats where it's meant to be funny, he's funny, where he's meant to be pathetic, he's pathetic, where he's meant to be intense, he's intense. And it feels yeah, it it's it feels like more more of a performance than a lot of audiobooks I've listened to. You know, the Jake Gyllenhaal Great Gatsby, it's alright. It's okay. And he's meant to be a much bigger actor than John Sim, but give John Sim all the awards for that audiobook. But yeah, let me go into the film. Now, I don't think I can call this an adaptation because first of all, the film is a much more enjoyable experience, you're not locked in his head, you're on the outside watching him, and that's a more that is just a better time. You do feel free of the obsession of of the intensity, you just get to be like you keep him at arm's length, and obviously the acting's Michael Sheen is incredible, the cat the supporting cast is incredible, and the pacing is fantastic. It doesn't it doesn't drag, and I mean I guess because we're only doing 44 days, it can't really, but they cover all the lore. Like if you're not a football fan and you don't know anything about it, you will understand what's going on. You don't have to be a diehard fan to know about Derby County, know about all that. It's it covers it during the film, which I think is crack in filmmaking, crack in script writing, screenwriting, Jesus. But it doesn't feel like an adaptation, it feels like two completely different pieces of two different mediums, which they are obviously. What am I trying to say? It feels like they've gone, okay, there's a book called The Damned United, and it's very cerebral, it's very locked in someone's head, psych psychological, that's where it is, that's where we're we're seeing his state, and they've gone, that's great, and all. Uh, we're gonna kind of focus on some of the stuff he does, but from the outside, so you kind of are just watching him be this erratic guy, and you're not really gonna see the reasoning behind a lot of his decision making, but that's what we're gonna do. You're not gonna see the cogs turning, you're not you're not gonna hear the cogs turning, you're gonna see them turning, but you're not gonna know the reason why he did everything. Okay? And I'm and that's yeah, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. They they're two two very different things, but because they're two completely different experiences, I think they can be enjoyed separately and for their own thing. So if you want a really intense book, the Damned United book is for you. If you want um a historical film and you like a sports film, the Damned United film is for you. And I'm glad they did what they did because it would have been impossible to put on the screen, it would have been performance art to have it on the screen and no one would have gone to see it, and it finds a different emotional core because the relationship between Brian Clough and Peter Taylor, you get glimpses of it in the book, but it obviously, with it being not non-linear, you have them talking about how they became friends, and then randomly you have them beating the shit out of each other, then you have them being friends again, and it you kind of don't get to see the gradual rise and then um demolition of their friendship, but that but in the movie you do, it's the heart of the movie that partnership and that trust, and then the the obviously the complete breakdown of it. It the film gives us something that's much more human and relatable. Meanwhile, the book is still kind of banging its head against the wall talking about leads, we're focusing on something that a lot more of us can relate to. I don't know if any of us hate anything as much as Brian Clough hates Leeds. Hated Leeds, bless him. But that is why the film is better, I will say. I think the film is far more accessible than the book. Absolutely is But and especially because the film plays him as a more i he's more human in the film. In the book you are because obviously it's not an autobiography, you are stuck between the man and legend. David Peace has tried to work out why he made the decisions he did, what was going through his head at this time, what why did he make that phone call at 2.30 in the morning? Why did he demand to buy that player when he didn't really want him just to fuck around with some other guy? Why couldn't he have gone why couldn't he have gone to that dinner uh in Turin? Why instead did he have to have a fight with Peter Taylor? I think for that one his mum had died. But you he's he's filled in some gaps there, and I think that just adds to the legend of him because he's still he's still semi-fantastical. When I think of Brian Clough and I don't think of him as a real person. He's a legend of the town, this the city. Uh he did he did more for Derby than anyone's ever done, and he's more of an enigma. Obviously, I wasn't around for these these times, so I don't know. I don't know what he was like, but um the film makes him far more human, far more grounded, and you can relate to him a lot more, so I I that is why the film's better, for sure. You understand why people followed him, you understand why the players believed in him, and you understand why he kept walking into jobs despite saying things that would get someone taken out of a building today. They wanted a manager that the players would w would strike for. They wanted that, and that's what they would have got probably if it wasn't fucking dirty fucking leads, and if it wasn't fucking Dom Revy's fucking leads, and the problem is they got they got a manager that players would strike for, but he took over a club where the players that were there were players that would strike for the previous manager, so he didn't have a fucking chance. He would have had to just sell them all and start again. But anyway, listen, we won't get into that. So the film if where do I The film is better. Uh, even if you don't care about football, you know nothing about football, it's a great character study. The book is more of a unique experience that I think only someone who really likes football or really likes Brian Clove could get into. It's intense and unusual and demanding, and I would say relative I'm gonna say unforgettable because that whole like da like tapping of intensity from his like fucking leads, fucking dirty fucking leads is all I'm gonna hear whenever I see a picture of Brian Clough. Whenever I see the statue of Brian Clough, I'll just hear dirty fucking leads, cun, cun, cunt. That's all I'm gonna hear. And sorry for the sorry for the swearing, but he did a lot of that. Um and then obviously a shout out if you really want to meet in the middle, the audiobook is fucking brilliant. John Sim, you know, I'm not the first one to say that. John Sim's fucking brilliant. They're all doing different jobs, and I think if you want to just get throw yourself into the world of Brian Clove, fuck it, go all three. But I mean you can do the audiobook over reading it, you know. Um, and that's maybe the biggest compliment I can give any adaptation is you know, watching the film makes me feel like I don't need the book, and then reading the book made me feel like I don't need the film. You know, they do they they enhance each other, but you can. Just watch them singularly, you don't need to throw yourself too much into it. So, what do you reckon? Was Brian Clough a genius who happened to be difficult or a difficult man who happened to be a genius? I don't know. I suspect he would have loved the fact that he's such an enigma because fucking hell, the stuff he did. But I didn't want to get too much into that. I didn't want to get lost in the mad, mad stuff he did. Partly because I think you'd all hear him be like, I don't want to hear about that guy at all. He sounds like an absolute arsehole. But you have to give him some context. And the film offers you more context than the book does, I will say. Um so yeah, that is my first World Cup special of The Damned United. I'm currently sat in a very hot attic. I can't open the windows because otherwise you guys would hear the traffic sound. So I'm sorry if that was a bit low energy. I'm just, as I was talking today, I would I'm just I'm just sweating. I'm just sweating and getting really hot and just kind of oh my god, bloody hell. But I came off the back of listening to this audiobook fucking pumped. I was so hype. And obviously I've seen Damned United hundreds of times. I say hundreds, probably about ten times, but both of both are fantastic, but the book is more accessible. Uh the the film is more accessible, Jesus. The film. So there you go. The verdict is done, it's the film. And if you enjoyed that, thank you. Give it five stars, share it, do what you gotta do, give it to give it to everyone. Uh Christmas is gonna be here before you know it, and uh you could give someone a link to my podcast. That would be very nice. And that was the World Cup special. Um hope everyone enjoyed Croatia losing to England. Hope everyone went out and supported a local independent pub. Um I know that you can get beer for cheap and sit and drink at home, but you know, let's keep the economy going, let's keep the the put the pubs bobbing along. Um and if you're one of those um men who can't handle when England lose, grow up. We don't need that. We don't need that at all. Um it's embarrassing, and if football affects you that much, you need to go to like some fucking football rehab or something. It's weird and it's distressing and at the end of the day you're a piece of shit. So yeah, I've just been seeing a lot about all that, all that, and I it's just absolutely fucking ridiculous. Uh my friend and I were talking about last night at the Croatia game, um, talking about the fact that you know if England win, our reaction will be, oh yeah, England won. And then if England loses, we'll be like, oh for fuck's sake. That's it. That's the extent of it. That's all you need to do. Nothing changes based on how angry you get about it. Anger begets more anger, and you don't need to take that shit home with you. So if you are a man who does that, you're an embarrassment, leave your wife, let her be free of you. Alright. So that's how we'll end the podcast. It's an interesting end. Um, but I'm just sick and tired of pathetic men. Right? I will see you. Well, next week's episode is The Devil Wears Prada, that's all queued up. But I'm also going to cover Football Factory and Fever Pitch. Because as an Arsenal fan, yeah, I know. Boo, he's an Arsenal fan. Oh god. Um I love that film and I haven't read the book. So that's the next one. Alright, see you on the other side.