First Spin

Borrowed Sparks: Mike Bay on Grief, Faith, and Finding a Voice in Nashville

• First Spin • Season 1 • Episode 7

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This week I got to talk with Mike Bay of Borrowed Sparks, someone whose music I’ve loved for years. We talked about his move to Nashville—how one Springsteen concert, a job lead, and a surprise lease ending all lined up—and how that kicked off a journey he didn’t totally expect but clearly needed.

Mike opened up about growing up in the Midwest, playing in church bands, and how songwriting has always been his way of processing life—even when he didn’t know that’s what he was doing. We also talked about building community as an independent artist, how grief shows up in his work, and why putting out a record takes so much more than just hitting "upload."

Content note: This episode includes discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, help is available. You can call or text the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org.

This one meant a lot to me. I hope it lands with you too.

Songs in this episode (in order):

–– Hayden

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Thanks for listening—see you next week.

Hayden (00:01)
Hello and welcome to First Spin, a podcast for people who are tired of explaining why their Spotify rap is just steely Dan and whale sounds. Each week I'm going to introduce you to an artist who isn't yet getting the recognition that I think they deserve. Now there are only two rules. Number one, I dig it. And number two, the artist has less than a hundred thousand monthly listeners on Spotify. Now the goal here at First Spin is to help the artists we like continue to grow their fan bases. And honestly, just by being here, you're helping to make that happen. So thanks for joining.

Hey, hi, hello and welcome to another episode of First Spin. I'm your host Hayden and before we get into the episode, some of you have been asking about playlists, which I'm happy to say there are indeed playlists on Spotify and Apple Music with all of the artists we've featured here on the First Spin pod. You can find those playlists on both platforms under First Spin Podcast Public Playlist. First Spin Podcast Public Playlist.

I've also been posting my favorite songs of the week every Tuesday in a video series appropriately titled Tuesday. So be on the lookout for that on the first spin socials. I don't know that Tuesday, Tuesday is just like the worst day of the week in my opinion. you know, anything I can do to try to brighten up your Tuesday. It's Tuesday, isn't it? My guest today is a gentleman named Mike Bay who releases music under the name Borrowed Sparks. I've been a fan of his music for several years now and was so happy to have him on.

We spoke about Nashville being a 10 year town and what that means, the history of the name, Borrowed Sparks, and how I initially discovered him thanks to the late Tom Petty. We're going to play a bit of his song, Let a Little Light In, and then get into my conversation with Mike Bay of Borrowed Sparks.

Mike Bay (01:53)
you

Hayden (02:38)
So speaking of your Nashville, how long have you lived in Nashville?

Mike Bay (02:41)
11 years. May ⁓ was my 11th year. Nice. Been here for a while. They say 10 year town. So I guess I've cracked that into the 11th year. Yeah.

Hayden (02:54)
You've

proven them wrong. What does that even mean? does 10 year town mean?

Mike Bay (02:58)
it's like an old saying of like, it's 10 years to make it in Nashville. So, you know, if you're trying to be a producer or songwriter or whatever, they say it's 10 years before you figure out the town and you make all the connections you need to make and whatever. It's kind of just an old saying. I don't think anybody really buys into it too hard.

Hayden (03:19)
Yeah. So what were you doing when you first got there 11 years ago?

Mike Bay (03:21)
I

kind of had like a straight line path to Nashville. was weird. I don't think I was planning on any kind of move. I thought about Nashville when I was about the time I graduated high school. And I don't know why I just kind of I love music. I wanted to play music, but I didn't know how. I didn't know that people did this for a job. And even as a kid and as a teenager, like writing songs and things like that, I just didn't. I saw like the punk bands doing the thing, but I did. It didn't click that like

they were doing the same thing that I was doing. You know, was like writing down things that I was feeling and thinking. The only difference was like they were playing them on stage. was too, at the time, think too nervous and introverted to ever try something like that. But anyway, I came to Nashville to actually to see the boss. I'm wearing my Springsteen shirt. is the Wrecking Ball Tour. Yeah. That's not the tour I saw in Nashville. I saw this in Kansas City. But anyway, it was, ⁓

Hayden (04:12)
It's a wrecking ball tour.

Mike Bay (04:21)
I came down, saw the show, crashed on a friend's couch, and he was like, hey man, our guitarist recently left the band. And the band that I was playing in St. Louis, my hometown, and his current band had played a bunch of stuff together, a bunch of shows and whatever. And he was like, I know it's crazy, but if you ever thought about moving here, we would love to have you in the band. And I was like, yeah, that's really, that's cool, man. I love that. I was kind of flattered, but I didn't really think.

it was an option. You know, I was just kind of like, wow, that's really great.

Hayden (04:52)
Why was it? not? Like you didn't think he was like honest about it. You just didn't think it was like, no, no practical to move to Nashville.

Mike Bay (05:00)
Yeah, I just didn't think it was, I didn't think it would happen. Not that the, not that he wasn't honest, but I just didn't think that that wasn't enough for me to be like, okay, yeah, I'll just move here. So I kind of like, I threw out some resumes in Nashville and a couple of companies. I'm an audio engineer also. So threw out some resumes to a few production companies. And one guy got back to me said, Hey, if, if you're, if you move to town and let me know, we probably have some work for you. So I said, Hey, I'm actually in town today.

what's what's going on. Can I come by. Can I come by the office. And he said yes. So I show up. I talk with him for a little bit. We kind of do like an informal interview and he's like yeah if you if you're in town I've got tons of work for you. So. Had a band and I had a job offer. I was like OK this is interesting. This is like. ⁓ Start like there's something here. I still wasn't like this is going to work out. ⁓

I got back to St. Louis and I was telling my roommate, who was also the bassist in my current band, it's like, yeah, isn't that kind of wild? Like all this stuff kind of happened. And he's like, yeah, do you remember how our lease is up next month? And I was like, I had escaped my mind. ⁓ And he was like, I've been meaning to tell you, I'm moving to Hollywood. Yeah. So he's also an audio engineer, but he does a lot of like sound for film and

and it has ended up he's super successful. Hey Scott. He does a lot of stuff for like horror movies and like creating the sounds of the sound effects for horror movies or being on site and like recording the dialogue and stuff like that.

Hayden (06:40)
But he's my, he might be my neighbor.

Mike Bay (06:42)
He might be your neighbor. ⁓ I have no idea where he's at now. I'm pretty sure he's still in Hollywood. But yeah, so he reminds me of that and that the lease is up and I'm like, and he's moving. I'm like, ⁓ And and the original drummer of that band had quit and we were kind of like the guitarist actually moved to Nashville a few months before I did to become a writer and a producer.

Hayden (06:53)
including the band.

Mike Bay (07:08)
So things were kind of falling apart. And it was one of those things with that band. was like, okay, is it a rebuilding year or is this done? And with the band, the job, my place in St. Louis, the lease being off and my roommate leaving, I was like, I think there's something here. So I talked to the band. I'm like, yeah, is this real? Like, is this for, if I move down this, it's real. Yeah, yeah, we're doing it for real. And they had just signed a record deal with a company out of California.

and like a small indie deal. And they're like, yeah, we're releasing the record. We're going on tour. Like the thing is happening. You just got to get here. And I was like, I don't, I just got to get a place to stay. Like, where should I stay? And they're like, you can crash on the couch. And this all happened in like four days, right? Yeah. It sounds like a long story. It's not. In four days and like a weekend, I had a job, a place to stay, a band, built in friends because you're in the band, right? I had everything that would have taken me there. And then I

Hayden (07:52)
Of course, it always does.

Mike Bay (08:07)
I had lunch. This is kind of funny too. I had lunch with my mom and my mom was like, hey, how was your trip? You know, did you have fun? Whatever. And it's like, yeah, yeah, it's really, it was a great trip. You know, I met up with some old friends and whatever and she's like, are you going to move there? Like I had not told her anything. My mom and I are pretty close and I didn't want to alarm her with like, hey, I might be leaving the state unless it was going to happen. And I was like, moms have that. They just have that. I know. So.

I was like, actually a lot of things kind of lined up and she was like, you got to go. Like, and having that from your, you know, your family and your mom is like, real, was really special for her to just be like, you have to go. It's a look, it's all lining up like, and you know, like it probably broke my mom's heart to see me leave. But having that like extra little bit, that little like permission that I don't think I needed, but was just like, this is all falling together.

Hayden (09:04)
That last little nudge knowing that you have the family support. Because know, lot of people don't. And so to have that is like that extra little thing of like, okay, like if my mom says I should go, I guess I should really go.

Mike Bay (09:20)
Yeah, and my folks, ⁓ my brother's ⁓ a drummer, but no one in my family before us was really a musician, even like in an amateur way.

Hayden (09:31)
of your childhood that like where your parents like music listening to music all the time.

Mike Bay (09:35)
My

dad for sure. Yeah. My dad had a huge vinyl collection. I mean, those are some of my earliest memories is listening to records on Saturday morning with my dad and my brother and my mom. And my mom was really into music, but like she was really into like the contemporary Christian thing. That was her thing. Then we'd get in the car with dad and we'd listen to ACDC.

Hayden (09:56)
a different. ⁓

Mike Bay (09:58)
We

can only listen to Christian music with mom, but then we get in the car with dad and dad's like, no, we're not listening to that. We're going to listen to Boston. All right. That's what's going to happen. That's my car. So, and my dad to this day loves music as a huge fan of music, but never played or sang or anything like that. And so my brother and I being the first ones and then me being the first one to kind of pursue it as a career, I'm shocked to have the amount of support that I do. Like, I don't think everybody understands it.

Hayden (10:04)
Listen to the Highway to Hell. ⁓

Mike Bay (10:28)
in a sense. like what's cool is they don't have to to be supportive. Like if you understand something then it's easy to support someone. Oh yeah I understand why you'd want to go to college because that could lead to a better job. Blah blah blah. That's easy to be supportive of that. What's cool is that my folks don't have any experience with it. I don't think they fully understand the like innate thing where it's like you have to do it in a way. But despite those things they've been super supportive which is really really cool.

Hayden (10:57)
That's so great. That's so great. Okay. So you're in Nashville, you've got this new band. How does that turn into what is now called Borrowed Sparks? Like what is that transition?

Mike Bay (11:08)
Yeah. So I played with that band. The band's called Ravenhill. Great guys. basically one day, their mom, sister, family was all in Dallas, Texas area. So one day they were like, hey, we're moving to Dallas. It was two brothers in the band. And they were like, we're moving to Dallas. You're welcome to come with us. We're going to continue the band, but we're going to do it out of Dallas so we can be closer to family, all that stuff. And I was like, well, I kind of already moved once.

for this band and I did not have a serendipitous path to Dallas the way that I had it to Nashville. At that point, I had a bunch of friends. I had kind of laid down roots in Nashville and I didn't want to leave. So they go to Dallas, which is kind of where my time with the band ended. And I just kind of floated for a little bit. I wasn't really sure what to do. I was writing songs with other people, all kinds of stuff. I mean, I wrote

pop songs, wrote country songs, I wrote rock songs. I of started, I kept playing with guys for a couple of months and it just didn't have any thing to it. I moved on to some other people. I played guitar for a country artist for a while. And I was just kind of trying to figure it out. But I knew there was something more. I wasn't hanging it up, but I wasn't sure what it was. So I writing, I was at the same time writing my own songs. Like I had always done since I was like 12 or 13 years old. But was into, I was recording them.

And just making demos was really just fun and it was kind of like practicing, know, practicing the recording process, looking for a sound that was special. Cause I didn't want to do, I didn't want to release like songs that were just like, Oh, this is a regurgitated version of what this person is doing. I didn't want to, I didn't want to be Bruce Springsteen light, you know, like, Oh, this guy's trying to be Bruce. That's, that's neat. You know, I wanted there to be something that at least for me,

was special to it. And one of the things where you know where the name of the band came from is like it had a spark to it. To me, I'm sitting there listening. I'm like, there's just something here sonically, lyrically or whatever that has just enough difference. Not something crazy, like not trying to reinvent the wheel or you know, what's that? Was that band from South Africa that always blows my mind? The die ant word. Have you seen that? I'm proud to pronounce it. Look it up, dude. It's wild. I don't even know.

Hayden (13:27)
it now.

Mike Bay (13:31)
EDM, hip hop, I don't even know what categories to put it in. I've never seen anything like it. I'm not telling you that you're going to want to listen to it a bunch, but I'm telling you that it'll be unlike anything you've ever seen. Right. So anyway, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel the way that they have, just something that had enough there that I thought could maybe, maybe this could start some kind of fire, that it could be something a little special. So I was looking for that.

Hayden (13:43)
Okay, cool.

Mike Bay (13:59)
I was living in this house with three other roommates and they were all, we're all musicians of some kind. And one day I'm talking with one of my roommates and he's like, yeah, you know, you've been working really hard on this stuff, which to me, I never, I didn't feel like it was work. was just what I wanted to do with my free time. So I keep it working really hard. Like, what are you going to do with it? And I was like, I don't, I don't know, probably nothing like that.

Hayden (14:21)
So you hadn't really been asking yourself what you were gonna do with it. You were just.

Mike Bay (14:24)
No, no, I was just like, I was just doing it. I've always, I got a guitar when I turned 12 and I've always written songs. Even as a teenager, I didn't know that I was writing songs. Sounds silly. But I was like, I always had a journal. I always had a spiral notebook. I can remember them like yellow and red, like the kinds you would get at Target or whatever. And I would just fill them with ideas and...

I didn't know that I was writing songs, which is crazy to think about now because it's so much of what I do.

Hayden (14:55)
When

you're a teenager, you're just writing stuff down.

Mike Bay (15:00)
Yeah. All I knew is that I was paranoid that anyone would ever read those notes. All I knew was that I could never see this. And it was probably, you know, was probably nothing crazy, but just being an insecure teenage kid, like, I don't want anybody to read these things.

Hayden (15:17)
When you're 14, like the idea of somebody reading your diary, like regardless of whatever form it takes, it's like, whether it's a true diary or, you know, song lyrics or, you know, photos or whatever, like you just like, they're so, yeah, the idea is mortifying. now like, you know, I'm thankful that we grew up when we did and didn't have to worry about social media and everybody having a camera in their pocket and, you know, having access to everything. Cause now, I mean, most people's diaries are probably on their phone and their notes have been their phone.

Mike Bay (15:46)
Instagram or their TikTok and it's going to be there forever. I ⁓ am also very glad that it wasn't that public. I'm honestly like I'm still kind of that way. I'm still a little private where like I keep a journal, songwriting journal, a couple of different journals. don't, nobody reads that. there and I would be petrified if anybody read it. Now putting it in a song form, taking those thoughts and kind of distilling them into something that

I am comfortable showing people is different, but I always like to have a place that's just raw and I can just write down like whatever doesn't have to be written in a certain way as if somebody's going to read it. It's just, there it is. And that's always really helped me kind of process stuff. So I didn't know what I was doing as a kid. I don't know what I'm doing now. A lot of times I don't feel like I do, but that's kind of where it's always started. One of my roommates was like, Hey, I've got this friend who's a producer.

And I think you should show him some of your songs. Like, I think he would really be able to help you. That guy's name's Darren King. He's the guitar player in the band now and has produced both the records. so I show these songs to Darren. I have like, I don't know, 20-something songs, 30 songs. And I was like, man, I'm not sure. I've got, I feel like I've got a batch of songs that's like punk songs. And I've got a batch of songs that are like...

singer songwriter, more folky kind of songs. I was like, what do you think is better? Like what are the, which batch is better? Which if I was going to release record, cause even as we were recording the thing, still wasn't like, show. Yeah. Part of me was like, maybe this is just a mile marker. Like maybe I record this stuff for myself, put it on the shelf and I always have it to say, this is where, you know, this is where life was at this

Hayden (17:26)
Yeah

Mike Bay (17:42)
this point. I'm kind of like a big diary entry.

Hayden (17:45)
I

could always in like 30 years is some special, some special box set.

Mike Bay (17:50)
post-humorous. A box set. But I still like we're recording these songs I didn't have. I wasn't sure what I was going to do with them at that point. anyway, so I asked Darren like what are the best songs? he said, well, why don't we just do both? Like, why don't we just take the best of both of them and find, create like a sonic middle ground? So you can take the singer songwriter like lyrically focused thing, but then like try to keep some of that angsty energy.

from the punk thing and we'll just pick the best songs and make a place where they can live together. So that was the focus of that first EP. And through all the work we put in, think I kind of got, I think I felt like, oh, I've put so much into this, I have to release it. Like, we put so much time and effort and consideration into like shaping them. I was like, this is so much more of a process than I intended. I should just go the extra mile.

and release it. ⁓ Little did I know that releasing a record is an actual, actually like an extra hundred miles. The recording process is the fun part. The releasing of the record is so much more work from like an admin kind of perspective.

Hayden (19:09)
Here's The Prettiest One Left by borrowed sparks.

Mike Bay (19:14)
I still can't sleep without the TV on Something to keep the truth from staying

I'll be like a fairest weaver in summer, rolling around like a...

his voice is a too damn loud consequence of living in this empty

30 skyline with your bones buried beneath. Just another thing that I

Not sure that I've ever felt love This is as close as it gets, she said

I'm just the prettiest one

⁓

Hayden (20:25)
So talk to me about like what all is, okay, let's say you've got all the songs done, they're mixed, they're mastered, they're ready to go. What is the process from there to actually, you know, getting in people's ears?

Mike Bay (20:37)
Like for

Hayden (20:39)
Just in Germany, were just saying that it's like, you know, it's a long, it's another hundred miles. So I'm just curious as to like what, what that process is actually in practicality. You've done it a couple of times now. Like, what is that actually like?

Mike Bay (20:51)
I felt like I everything I had into the songs and I didn't want to skip out on what I put into the release. So I was like, okay, I want to put in as much effort into the release process as I put into the recording process and the writing process. So that means like, you could throw something up on Spotify in an hour, you know, create a distro kit or tune core or whatever DSP you want.

and then I'll go to Spotify and Apple Music and all that stuff, but no one's going to hear it. They're releasing millions of songs a day. It's just going to get lost. starting social media and building a website. And eventually, before I released that first record, I signed up and started working with a management company in Nashville that was basically designed to really help kickstart like new artists. they weren't... That's cool. Yeah, it really cool setup. They were super helpful. Told me a lot of things that...

most artists I think have to learn the hard way. Like just, I'm not talking about signing a 360 deal with Capitol Records and losing everything you own. I'm talking about just like, hey, when you release your record, like release some merchandise too, because people might really like it. And then they want to, you have a moment here that could really help push your career and your connection with your listeners further. But it's really important that you do it right.

If you miss stuff, it's really hard to go back because the hype is kind of there for a moment with a record. then that's just the nature of music is like.

Hayden (22:23)
You have to strike while the iron's hot.

Mike Bay (22:25)
Yeah,

yeah. And not that, I mean, I think I find a lot of music way after the fact, but that's just me. So they're like, you kind of have to plan, like you are not the listener that you want to get your music to think about. One of the big pieces that I took away that has stuck with me is like, have an avatar for your listener. like, where, where do they buy their shoes? Like what kind of shoes would your listener wear? How do they dress?

Where would they hang out? ⁓ What kind of websites do they use regularly? What's their social media platform? What's obviously like, what's their age? What's their demographic? ⁓ Do they have, do you think they have kids or do you think they're young singles in college or like all kinds of stuff? Because it kind of helps you picture who are you trying to get this music to?

Hayden (23:18)
Whose attention are you trying to grab? Yeah.

Mike Bay (23:19)
Yeah, yeah.

So who are they and then where are they? Because I think that obviously a lot of artists have learned this the hard way. it's not people aren't looking for new music right now. They're constantly bombarded with it. Like it's no longer like I want to find new music and find the next like up and coming great artists. There's people like that for sure. And I've been lucky to meet a bunch of them. ⁓

⁓ Yeah, well, Building a place for those people to come.

Hayden (23:53)
Because I think they are out there, but you're right. It's hard. It's hard to wade through it all. It's hard for me doing this to just like wade through like the noise and just it's constant. It's everywhere.

Mike Bay (24:05)
Yeah. mean, if you open up, I swear every time I open up like my Spotify app to just listen to something in the car. if you listen to this artist, like you get an ad, which is fine. Like that's what they're doing to make money. And that's a way that artists can get out in front of people. But that, and then you get on Instagram and you're getting sponsorship, sponsored ads, and you get on Facebook and you like anywhere you get on your email and you get sponsored emails. You're just bombarded with new music. And as a listener, I'm a lot of times like, I don't have time.

to constantly be like, what's the new thing? Or energy, because when I latch onto a record, I listen to that for weeks and weeks and weeks, and nothing else, which is not, I don't recommend that either, but not always looking for something new. But I feel like we're just bombarded with, this is the new record, this is the new artist, this guy was in his parents' basement two weeks ago, and now he's playing arena tours, and it's like, wait, hang on, I'm still in What? Yeah.

I'm still trying to catch up from the records that came out in like March, you know, like. Yeah. yeah, or last year. But yeah, that's, mean, I learned a lot of things from, from that management company as far as like, you've got a moment really. How do you find your people and bring them in to the thing? How do you build the community that you're trying to build and how important those moments are?

Hayden (25:05)
or last year.

Mike Bay (25:28)
Because I remember when I signed up with them, they're like, OK, great. So we'll probably do a release day like six months from now. And I was like, six months? Are you kidding me? The record's done. It's mastered. Like, what are we waiting for? And they just had lists of like really well-organized, do this first and then do this. And then get your website set up. And then get this set up. And then make sure that if people come to your website that

You know, you can track them to your socials and continue to stay in front of them and all these kinds of things like I would have never considered. I would have just thrown the record on Spotify. No one would have listened to it and I would have been like, okay, I guess this isn't working. You know, I guess this isn't very good.

Hayden (26:08)
back to the drawing board I guess we'll go write more songs yeah

Mike Bay (26:10)
Yeah,

yeah. But I learned so much through that process. And then I did the deluxe version of the EP. that was basically like, I added some acoustic versions, some other things, but it was also like, now I know how to do this. Like now I've done it once. I learned a ton. I did a ton right, I did a ton wrong. And then when that deluxe version came out, that's when things took off. That's when I started finding...

the right people, where they were. Because the first, I think it was the first EP, I was trying to get to, to me the songs were more like singer songwriter, because that's how I wrote a lot of them. But that's not, that's not where they were landing. Like they were landing with a lot more of the punk community, which was just the other side of that page for me. So then when I saw, when I was releasing that was the first EP, I was like, this is not really catching.

with the Jason Isbill crowd or John Moreland or something like that. And I was like, but like there's this weird thing happening in the punk community where people are grabbing onto this. So released the deluxe version with the acoustic songs and some additional stuff with that, but leaned into the punk community and all of sudden like had a great response.

Hayden (27:30)
So interesting. I mean, like that's, think, so the first EP is called the prettiest one left. And that's, must have been not too terribly long after you released that, that I came across you. don't know if you, do you remember how you probably don't, I don't know why you would, but I commented on a, like a Tom Petty post, which is like, I don't, I don't comment on celebrity posts on Instagram, hardly ever, but for some reason I did on this one and.

I think he was already gone at this point. So like, really don't come in on like dead people's Instagram posts. But for whatever reason I did and like you were, you know, probably somebody on your team like responded to it I was like, Hey, if you like Top Petty's music, you should check out my music. And I was like, okay, cool. I'll do that. ⁓ And I went over to, found you on Spotify and I was like, this is fucking great. And that's exactly it because it does, it meshes like the Jason Isbell thing with the Gaslight Anthem. And like, those are my

two favorite artists, right? And so like, that's like, you know, that, that spark you were talking about, like that cool, unique sound. It's kind of, it's a little bit folk and country, but it's, it's got these elements of punk rock to it. So that's, that's how I came across you. So that makes sense that that's kind of where you're, where you were targeting.

Mike Bay (28:46)
That's cool, man. I didn't know that. I remember meeting you and I remember like getting messaging back and forth and all that thing, but I didn't remember that that was kind of the genesis. See, that was me just like throwing stuff at the wall. Like I was literally just like, I believe in these songs. I want to get them to the right people. What if I like respond to some people on Tom Petty's page? What if I do it on Isbell's page or the Gaslight Anthem or something or any of the bands that I thought were like some way adjacent to what I was doing? And I guess it worked. It worked at least once.

Hayden (29:16)
I guess it worked at least once. It worked at least once. That's great. So I want to talk about some of the songs on that first EP. All five of them ended up on my top 100 songs. know, Spotify makes you that playlist. The entire EP was on my top 100 songs of that year. So I was listening to them a lot. The title track is still, I think, one of the most beautifully written songs I've ever heard. It's one of my favorites. There's that line. ⁓

I still can't sleep without the TV on something to keep the truth from staying too long. Like, do you know like when you hit a line like that, that it's just like, yeah, that's, I just wrote a great line.

Mike Bay (29:55)
Sometimes that one I remember, I remember writing that song and that song was the reason I did the EP. When I wrote that song, I was like, shit, I've got to do something. Cause it just felt, it kind of, was one of those, I won't say it just fell out in 30 minutes. It wasn't quite like that. It was over a week or two and it just, it happened so.

Naturally, yet I loved it so much. I was like, want more of this. Like, I want to keep doing this. I want to try to get this in front of people so that I can have a reason to write more of these. I don't remember that lyric. I remember that lyric hitting me when I wrote it because I liked that it kind of had two... I don't want to ruin the lyric for you by telling you what it means to me, but I will.

Hayden (30:44)
Well, it's don't think it'll ruin it. Yeah.

Mike Bay (30:46)
Well, that's what's so cool about lyrics is like once you once somebody else hears them, they kind of they kind of meld it to their own life in their own situation. And then sometimes if you hear it from the author and they're like, oh, yeah, that was actually about like a really great burrito that I had the afternoon of the writing session. You're like, I thought that was about, you know, deep, dark heartbreak or something. Yeah. But but I remember writing that line and thinking, you know, it's kind of two sided. It was like

being without this person so you have to have a distraction of the TV. And the truth is that they're gone, the TV kind of also, you know, it's the distraction tells you that the TV is kind of like on as if someone's there. You know, have you ever used television in that way to just be like, I'm not watching this. It's just on.

Hayden (31:32)
in

the background. Only literally daily. Cool.

Mike Bay (31:36)
But then the other was like kind of a commentary on like the TV and the news media, just so much propaganda on every side, just struggling to be like, what? The TV's on, but like there's no truth there. It's just kind of a lot of talking and a lot of talking points and rhetoric and things that are like not actually true. They're just bending truth or trying to get you to react a certain way.

Hayden (32:04)
Right. They're close enough to sell the ad so we can stay on the air. Yeah. Exactly. No, that's cool. mean, like, so that second, the second explanation, kind of the more macro explanation was, was, you know, kind of where, where I heard it. But there's also that, that's why I think that's what's so cool about it is it's got that macro level, but then it's also got that personal thing of like, you know, like you said, you leave the TV on because, you know, I can't be alone with my thoughts for, you know, very long or it could go, you know, it can get bad real quick. So.

I need that distraction. And I think that's a relatable experience to a lot of people in, what year is it? 2025.

Mike Bay (32:41)
Yeah, I'm definitely somebody who can spiral in those kinds of moments. like a distraction, a distraction is a good thing. I think there's obviously too much distraction. you, if you lean into that and you don't actually face whatever it is that you're, you're distracting yourself from, but then down the line, you're just going to recreate that issue. But sometimes the distraction. Yeah. And there's times where you, you can't, you can't work on that. You know, let's say you, lose a family member.

Hayden (33:03)
It's only gonna get worse.

Mike Bay (33:12)
Christmas time, it's really sad that they're not there. Well, you can't chain, you can't do anything about that, right? You're, you're not really processing it by sitting at home that day and being depressed. That's not helping. So maybe on that day, a distraction is really great. Having the TV on or going and doing something with friends, like I think that's super healthy. But if you just distract yourself and you never process the grief or the challenge, then you'll just live with it and carry it.

Hayden (33:41)
Yeah, so you just mentioned the word grief and I wanted to ask you about the song Goodbye My Friend, which is on the album Let A Little Light In, which came out in 2023. ⁓ It's fantastic. It does that same beautiful thing where it balances that high energy punk rock thing with the more mellow singer-songwriter thing. But that's one track that has always really stood out to me. I imagine there's a kind of a sad story behind that.

Mike Bay (34:09)
Yeah, that's a true story. It's really sad. Basically a friend of mine who had been through ⁓ things that I can't even imagine. She was a refugee from Africa. Her family came over here during the apartheid. They survived that by the skin of their teeth, barely making it to the country. She was this beautiful light of the room. Like somebody that walks in and like, the party's here. Like you could not.

not be happy around Giselle. And she was in school studying to be a mental health counselor. ⁓ Had a really hard time and she took her own life and it just like shattered our community at the time. Like you couldn't even process this person being struggling with depression. At least I didn't know about it. ⁓ Because it just seemed like such a joyful

happy person and what I learned later is like that a lot of times is a cover up, you know, overcompensating. It's pretty, it's pretty common thing.

Hayden (35:19)
we

hear about that all the time, right? Like Rob Williams and Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade. mean, there's just, there's a laundry list of people and it's, you what are you supposed, if, know, you know what signs to look for, but if the signs are, you're too happy, like, what are you, what are you supposed to do?

Mike Bay (35:35)
Yeah, mean, I don't know. don't have any answers now other than just actually asking the questions. I would not have thought to say like, are you actually, are you secretly depressed? Like I would never, that would have never happened. No, no, I'm with you. But yeah, when you have a close relationship with someone, I think,

Hayden (35:57)
But yeah

Mike Bay (36:02)
what little you can do is be in their life and be there for things that are affecting them.

Hayden (36:12)
Yeah, well, and make sure that they know how much they mean to you. Because I think we, know, we the general we has a bad habit of not telling people what they mean to us until they're gone. And it's like that, you know, that doesn't doesn't do any good. Right. So I also have a good friend who took his own life. Gosh, it's been over a decade now. And so maybe maybe that's part of why that song relates. You know, I enjoy it so much or appreciate it so much. ⁓

Mike Bay (36:26)
Yeah.

Hayden (36:41)
And he would also be a big borrowed sparks fan. know his taste in music and that's cool. He would have been a big broad sparks fan for sure. You talk a lot in your songs about kind of growing up in the Midwest and the Bible belt and like there's obviously some religious imagery. I imagine that has to do a lot with your upbringing.

Mike Bay (36:58)
Yeah, yeah, I grew up ⁓ Christian, conservative Christian. I was part of a a Baptist church for a while. And then I was part of a non denominational church, which oddly is a denomination in the Christian church. I still think that's wild. ⁓

Hayden (37:15)
think

the American Independent Party is a political party. People register like American independents thinking that they're registering as an independent and they're actually registering for the Nazi party.

Mike Bay (37:25)
So it was a huge part of my upbringing, really important to my mom and me and my brother and sister. We were in church like constantly. It was really, really central to our upbringing. And what's cool is like it kept me out of a ton of trouble. I think there are pros and cons to organized religion. One of the big pros is like I didn't get wrapped up in drugs. I didn't have a drinking problem.

I didn't get anybody pregnant. Like any of the big, giant teenage mistakes that can screw up the rest of your life. Like I didn't do those things. And alongside of that, I got to play music in church three times a week. And the cool thing about that is like, first of all, if you're 15, 16, 17, you can't play music in a bar, right? You're not old enough to get into the bar. If you can find a venue that will let you play there and you suck, they will tell you how bad you suck. And then they will never bring you back there again.

at church that no one ever told me that I sucked. They always were just encouraging, helping me get better and giving me another opportunity.

Hayden (38:32)
And playing with other people that often, mean, like you're going to grow your skill set so, so quickly.

Mike Bay (38:38)
and people that I had no business playing with. know, I was like 15 years old playing with musicians that were in their recent 50s that have been doing it their whole lives. You and you're just, learning from these people just by being around them on the stage and playing music and seeing how they navigate certain songs and chord progressions and how they create sounds. And it's one of the, it was so formative to me, like growing up in the church. And I think there's more pros.

than cons, although I'm not denying the cons. There are plenty of cons.

Hayden (39:12)
Definitely, it sounds like it went a long way to ⁓ kind of allowing you to, you know, just grow as a musician by learning from all those people.

Mike Bay (39:22)
Big time. And I mean, I think outside of music, just having a moral center and having a community and having something to be grateful for. I think that it's easy to get lost when you're focused on being grateful and it's easy to get self-absorbed. One of the good things about growing up in church, like we were always grateful for what we had. Whether we had a lot or a little, was always like you were told you were given those things. Whether you subscribe to God or

nothing or whatever. I think it's healthy to see things as gifts. Not that you didn't work hard or earn certain things, but I think it's really healthy. One of the healthiest things you can do for your mental health is to stay grateful for what you're given, what you're doing, opportunity you have in front of you, ⁓ as opposed to like, well, this could be better. Well, boom, then you've got anxiety or depression. mean, that's all things that I've dealt with. So it's like,

I can speak from experience, like remaining grateful is one of those things that is really, is a great lesson.

Hayden (40:28)
This next song is called Are You Listening by borrowed sparks.

I want to get into the last rapid fire round. called the final spin. So I'm just going to throw some questions at you. If you could open for any artist living or dead, who would it be? They're making a biopic about you, who's playing the lead.

Mike Bay (41:26)
Bracing.

Man, I'm terrible with actors' names. Ewan McGregor. Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going go with that. Like, handsome guy, but also great actor and funny. Like, he's in some movies where he's really funny guy also. So I feel like he's a good, yeah, he's a good milk ground.

Hayden (41:39)
see it too like

artist or band that you love that people would be surprised by.

Mike Bay (41:53)
Hmm. I might have to think on that one. There's a lot of pop that I like. I'm a sucker for like any of the 90s female pop like Michelle Branch. was a huge Michelle Branch fan back in the day. like. Yeah. But like very under the radar. Like I didn't tell anybody. I wasn't like at the punk shows with my friends at the VFW being like, hey, but have you heard this Michelle Branch?

Hayden (42:10)
she has with Santana is so good.

Mike Bay (42:23)
I was just like, don't don't tell anybody about this. Just kept it to myself. I didn't want to lose my street cred. What a little street cred I had.

Hayden (42:32)
You said that you visited 49 out of 50 states? A. How is that possible? And B. What's the last one?

Mike Bay (42:37)
Yeah.

The last one's Hawaii. So if anybody wants to take me to Hawaii just to complete the 50th state, I'm on board. But yeah, actually I did all of that before I was 30. So was going on my 30th birthday. was like, before right before my 30th birthday, was like, should I buy a ticket to Hawaii? Just so I could say like 50 states before 30. didn't. It's still on the list. yeah, I've traveled.

Most of my life, you know, with bands as a musician and then also as an audio engineer, traveled 150 days a year, if not more, busy years doing that. So I'm trying to think of, I got to go to Alaska was a really cool one. I think that was one of the last ones that I had to check off the list. I was playing with this country artist and he was a good friend of mine. His uncle or aunt was in

Wrangle, Alaska, which is a little island. There's like 1200 people on this island. And he was like, yeah, you want to come out and play? And, and Matt was like, he asked me like, it was a crazy idea. I'm like, no, we're go. Are you Alaska? Like they're going to pay for the airfare. Like, yeah, we're going. ⁓ It was the coolest trip, man. I, I wish I could go back, but at the same time it would never be what it was. Like I would just be trying to recreate.

Hayden (43:53)
Of course I do.

How do you say no to that?

Mike Bay (44:08)
the most amazing adventure. But the people there were like, we didn't pay for a meal or a drink the entire time we were there. And I'm not talking about like somebody just covering your tab. I mean, like we would be getting coffee in the morning and someone would say, hey, what are you doing for lunch? Come to my like here. I live up here on this street. Come over. And they would they'd be like, oh, we just caught halibut this morning. Do you like halibut?

Yeah. And we got our crab traps this afternoon. want some crab? And was in shrimp and like all kinds of just food from the land and the sea that was like caught that day or that week. It was amazing. The people were so generous. just, I mean, the trip was absolutely incredible.

Hayden (44:57)
Yeah, how cool is that? Yeah, it's almost like that exists in a moment in time, like going back to would like almost, you know, ruin.

Mike Bay (45:06)
It's whole different thing. I'd have to somehow not try to relive that amazing experience and just try something new.

Hayden (45:14)
That's high on my list. I've never been. I really want to go to

Mike Bay (45:16)
I haven't been to like Juneau or Sitka or some of the bigger cities literally. We flew to Seattle We took a smaller plane from Seattle to Juneau We took an even smaller plane from Juneau to Wrangell and it was like the one where you land on the water You know, can't I don't know what that kind of plane is called, but it was like just the four or five of us You flew in you land in the water and good

Hayden (45:41)
I don't know if there's enough Xanax in the world.

Mike Bay (45:43)
I was just generally so excited that I wasn't going to get more anxious because there is a positive excitement.

Hayden (45:51)
Yeah. You know, you're like, this is worth it because where I'm going is so cool.

Mike Bay (45:56)
Yeah, it was awesome. It was a great trip.

Hayden (45:59)
My final question for you is who is an artist with less than 100,000 monthly listeners on Spotify that you think people should be listening to?

Mike Bay (46:07)
Less than a hundred thousand. man. Can I, can I cheat? Can I look at my Spotify real quick? just do. Oh, uh, John Charles Dwyer. I think he has a hundred thousand. I'll look this up just so I can make sure. Yeah. Significantly less. John Charles Dwyer. Um, he's got a couple of records. My favorite is June Bug, released in 2021. I've played some shows with John. He's

He's open for like American Aquarium and some bigger acts, but he just one of the best songwriters I've ever heard and delivers the song as good, like as much as it deserves. You know, a lot of times songs written and the delivery just isn't quite there or delivery is great. I think I hear this in pop music all the time where like delivery is incredible. The production is awesome. The song's like, that's like a, that's like a C plus song, but everything around it is amazing. And John just like, they're both A plus. ⁓

I think he mostly tours by himself, just solo. you can't skip on that guy. He's amazing.

Hayden (47:11)
but I gotta say, another artist whose songwriting and performance of it is at the top, Baro Sparks. Thanks Mike for being here. I've been a big fan for a long time, so I really appreciate you doing the podcast.

Mike Bay (47:22)
Absolutely, we'll have to it again. This is a blast. Any excuse to hang out if you want to fly to Nashville anytime to see a band, I'll be there with you.

Hayden (47:32)
learned a valuable lesson in this interview with Mike. I stopped the recording and then we ended up talking for like another 30 to 45 minutes and some of that stuff was great. I wish we had it recorded, but lesson learned, don't stop the recording prematurely. Though I guess that also means we're just gonna have to have Mike on for round two, another episode with borrowed sparks in the future. But that's all for today. Follow along on the socials at firstspinpod. You can also email me at firstspinpod at gmail.com.

If you have someone you think I should check out, somebody with under 100,000 monthly listeners on Spotify, send them my way. Thanks as always to Brian for making this sound good. Thanks to you for listening and you know what, this to your mom. I think she's gonna like it. Okay, bye bye.