HAFFWAY (Live at The Moroccan Lounge)

In this special, first-of-its-kind episode, Hayden sits down with HAFFWAY (Sam Westhoff) for a conversation before his headlining show at The Moroccan Lounge on February 12, 2025.  Sam talks about almost giving up, writing for himself, mental health, the recent coverage in Rolling Stone, his latest album 'Wither.'

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 1:03

So, fourth, this is the fourth show of the Wither Tour. How's it going so far?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Good, dude. It was uh I'm originally from Tulsa. And so that was our first show. Now I was scared shitless about that. Why? Tulsa's hard to play.

SPEAKER_05 1:17

Okay, just because it's hometown?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I mean, definitely that's like, I would say for me, 40% of why it's hard to play. But kind of ask anybody. Tulsa's tough to play. It's like, it's just not a I mean, music history there is crazy, you know, like everything from Leon Russell to the Tetters are all there, and and Laney came out of Tulsa, whatever, like crazy Hansen, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_05 1:38

And as I Bryan, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, yeah, he came back and whatever. Um, but yeah, people just don't really get the value of showing up to a show. Um so it's it's always been tough playing Tulsa. Uh so I was scared for that show, but it went really well. I like we left just feeling kind of on cloud nine.

SPEAKER_05 1:57

Oh, that's I mean, that's a great way to start the tour.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

It was, yeah. And then we went straight to Dallas, um, played a really weird never playing there again. Nobody has anything good to say about Dallas. I hate Dallas. I'll say it out loud. I'll tell I tell people there. I'm like, I hate it here. I don't like it. Uh especially being from Tulsa, right? It's like Arch nemesis. I'm like, y'all are boring as hell. This place sucks. I don't like Dallas. Uh the fans were awesome though. Like the fans showed up hard. It was really cool. Uh I expected like very meek, whatever, but they showed up loud and proud. And then we played Austin in slight mistake. We played Austin on Super Bowl Sunday. That was tough. I was alright though. There's there's like a 400 cap, there's like 90 people there. Um and it was like, you know, half of the tickets we sold actually showed up, that kind of thing. But the people there were. But they showed up loud. And we played awesome in slight mistake. We played awesome on Super Bowl Sunday. That was tough. Yeah. I was alright though. There's there's like there's like a 400 cap, there's like 90 people here. Okay. Um and it was like, you know, half of the tickets we sold actually showed up, that kind of thing. Okay. But the people there, like, I had somebody fly from Quebec for that, which I'm like, there's a lot closer shows than Austin for you, but it was encouraging. Yeah. So it was still good, still good. Um and then we had like three days off. So drove through Arizona. My uh grandma lives in Tucson.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Stayed at her house, and then we just got here two days ago, uh staying in Palace Verdes. Uh my wife used to work for a clothing company here, and the owner lives in PV.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

Not a bad place to stay.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Peacocks everywhere. Crazy, those the sound those things make is terrifying. It's a weird sound. Four in the morning, that'll wake you up. Have fun. Sleeping with my window open, there's just one peeking his head, screaming at me. Scary shit.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

Have you spent much time in LA before?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Uh yeah, uh, kinda. Like riding trips. Because like my main gig is writing for other folks, right? Uh and so over the over the years I've made trips out. Um, I've always hated it a whole lot. Um never been here and had a good time up until last year.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Uh and that was like bringing kind of building the team around you know, the business side. A lot of them are out here. And they kind of showed me how to do LA. You can't just show up here.

unknown 5:46

No.

SPEAKER_05 5:46

It's it's the most disappointing travel destination in the world. Like people come here and it was just like, this place sucks. Why would I why why would why did I spend all this money to come here? It's so real, dude. It's so hard to get anywhere. But then you live here and you fall in love with it. Like that's the thing. It's like you get once you move here for like a year, you it's the best place to work.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah, and that's what like I'm I'm nervous for this one. Um have very mixed relationships with your city.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

We're all out here. So when I came out after like working with them, they showed me how to do LA. Now I like it. Right. I enjoy being here now. Um I have a hard time with downtown, can't figure that out yet.

SPEAKER_05 8:16

No, but I can't. I've I've lived here for you know a decade and I can't figure out downtown. So it's nobody comes to downtown. That's the thing. Is it like unless you're coming to something like this and you're coming to a show, there's no reason to come to downtown.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I like the coast. My manager lives in Manhattan Beach. Okay. And so I like I like that area a lot. That's cool. Lots of like in Manhattan Beach. I just went on Zillow and I'm like, okay, there's a little, yeah. I think like the cheapest house I found was for rent was$65,000 a month. Sure. So, anyways, we might make the move.

unknown 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, when things start moving. Yeah, anyways. So yeah, only only a bit in LA, just for rides.

SPEAKER_05 8:51

So you you your primary gig you said is is writing for other people. At some point you decided to transition into making music under halfway. Yeah. What what spawned that?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Uh so I was in Tulsa. I moved to Nashville with my wife, Abby, two and a half years ago. I was writing and producing for just like kind of some bands out here in LA, mainly in Oklahoma, Dallas. Uh burnt out, you know, 90-hour week, 30 grand a year, that kind of magical combo. Um burnt out 20, like 27 or so. Uh yeah, 27. Tried to get a job at Lowe's. Dude, because managers at Lowe's in Oklahoma make like 220,000 a year. Great kid.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

And in Oklahoma, 220,000 a year.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Oh, yeah, you're you're rich. It's amazing, dude. I was like, I was talking to my wife, we were like two years married at the time. And I'm like, I'm gonna do the Lowe's thing. And she's like, fuck that, don't do it. And I'm like, I'm gonna do it. She's like, no, like, why don't you just go lock yourself in the studio there and just write for yourself. Because I gave up, I like did my solo project when I was younger. Dog shit, so bad. And I'm like, that's not even self- that's not even like false humility, just bad. Uh so I stopped writing for myself. She encouraged me to write for myself. That ended up being like the first EP crap. Showed her. That's it. Yeah, yeah, right, nice. Uh showed her that, and she's like, you know, why don't we give her a go? Why don't we move somewhere where there's more music? So we visited here, visited New York. Even looked at like Austin, Atlanta, Oregon. And never been to Nashville. And we showed up once and we're like, this feels kinda like Tulsa in Tennessee. And just went for it. And so it released the first stuff right when we moved to Nashville. Uh not under any idea that it was gonna be the gig. Just like uh, I always wanted it to be the gig, but I just never thought it could be. Uh so moved there mainly to write and produce for others, and kind of both started bubbling at the same time. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

Uh and then your most recent album, Wither, which came out in October, was featured in Rolling Stone magazine.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

I mean, it's not as not as big of a deal as being on first bin, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not nearly as cool. But like what walk me through that. Like, what was that fun called? What did you find out for? But like what walking through that? Like, what was that phone call? When did you find out that you were gonna be in Rolling Stone?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

There's an artist called Wilder Woods. Um I toured with him uh last February and March, uh, opening and then like playing congas, and it's hilarious. Never done that before, that was fun. Um and uh uh Joe Hudak, like the main editor for Rolling Stones, was at that show, and he hit my manager after he saw the show. He's like, the congos, right? He's like, whoever's doing that, I want it, I want that guy. It's like don't care about the artist, he's like, I need the congos. No, he had my manager who's like, whenever you guys are ready for an article, let me know. And I'm like, cool, yeah, right, whatever. Fun thing to say. Uh release the record. My manager's like, hey, can you just send a voice note to Joe Hudak and see if see what happens? So I sent him a voice note, like five-minute voice note of like, here's kind of everything going on. Um the next morning he just woke up to it. That was it. I have a kid.

SPEAKER_05 13:45

It wasn't like you had an out sat down for an interview or something. No, wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

It was just all like a voice note that he transcribed and wrote. It was really wacky. It was awesome. I just such a fun way to wake up.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

I wonder if that's the way that things are done a lot now. Is it just like send me a voice note and I'll turn it into an article?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

I don't know, maybe. Like, I think originally he he requested just kind of like type in out stuff, and my manager's brilliant. And he was just like, I think it'll be better if you talk. Like just because I ramble a bit. He's like some weird stuff will come out if you let yourself ramble. Yeah. So I think, yeah, anyways, it was just that's kind of it. Uh it was just a real fun way to wake up. Yeah, I bet. It was awesome. I bet it was cool.

SPEAKER_05 14:27

Speaking of rambling, those those uh Instagram posts that you have where you dive into the songs. This is the funniest things I've ever seen. It was just so funny. Are those do you plan those out at all? Or do you just you just start recording and whatever happens happens?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

That's my brother filming those. So he comes out to Nashville like once a month or so. And he I was like, I kind of want to do some song story something or rather. Uh and he just showed up and he just started recording. He's like, Alright. And I'm like, oh no. I just started rambling. So those are all just kind of one takers. Letter written.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Yeah, we got all of them. Oh, you got all of them.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah, we got all of them. Yeah, just find the right time to post them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

Does your wife feel pretty validated at this point, I would imagine, having encouraged you to stick with it?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, both. She's like, what did I, you know, what she's like, what did I get myself into? Because like last year I was I wasn't home for nine months.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Yeah, how much did she get?

SPEAKER_01 15:31

She was with me now four of those months we're touring. Four of those months were making records. Um she was with me in Ireland for a month, which was great while we're working on a record. And then she was with me in October for the German tour. But the German tour kind of was a turning point where it's like, alright, we can't do this. You're not coming with anything. It was like, I'm gonna try to do the photography. So now, now we do that. Like we know. We go like in Norway for two weeks in April, she's there, or in London for two weeks, she's there, we're just gonna do it all. So now I think it's a bit more like, okay, cool, I think this is a good thing. Before she was like, I created a monster. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:24

But she was uh, from what I understand and what I've read, hugely influential with the album and everything that kind of led to the album. I feel like there's a lot of songs in there where you're maybe talking directly to her in a way and uh asking her for help in a in a sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Uh no, man, yeah, Abby, my wife, is like the center point of all of it. It's not like a cheesy way. Uh yeah, very much so. It's either talking about mental health or her. Uh that's the whole record.

SPEAKER_05 16:51

Because you you had a rough experience. So was that shortly after you moved straight to Nashville?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah, I mean, like, the on the mental health side. Yeah. Yeah. Uh a bit of a lot lifelong situation, right? Like my I grew up with a dad who was in that world. Um he's he's like my hero at this point. Uh and my grandma the same. It's a bit of like uh genetic brain wiring. Um, you know, I think it's a superpower if you can know what's happening, you know. Uh so yeah, it was we moved to Nashville, had a gnarly, gnarly, gnarly year. Uh just the weirdest year of my life. Like, I can't, it would take a minute to tell you, but everything from pancreatic failure, three weeks after moving there, uh turning into type 1 diabetes, um, going blind, uh, got hacked and my identity stolen. And in one night I got in two highway wrecks. Like, that was six months.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

You had two car accidents in one night?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Four hours apart. Totaled two cars. I hit a deer going 90 on my way back from Oklahoma, Tennessee, hit a deer going 90, totaled our car. My folks drove from Tulsa to pick me up on our way back, a red wolf, which is there's five of them in Oklahoma. There's four now.

SPEAKER_05 18:09

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, Red Wolf federally protected. Yeah, but that's actually why we're here. I've been talking to you. It's her.

SPEAKER_07 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah, dude, just like this weird wacky, every time we tried to get back to Nashville, something really gnarly would happen. Um, and it was the getting my identity stolen piece, because like I signed my pub deal, and we during the process, we got hacked. All 15 people working at this pub deal all got hacked. It's the gnarliest.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

Like an inside job? No, it was someone hacked into the system.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah, duplicated all of our email address, switched the last two letters of everybody, and stole everything. Stole my identity. It was gnarly. And so after that, that was kind of the last straw, and then ended up in the psychiatric hospital like a month later. Yeah, understandable. Uh yeah, it kind of worked out. Yeah, it kind of happened. Yeah. Uh and then, yeah, since since then it's just been like figuring out. Uh I was talking to my sound guy the other day about this. Um, yeah, I guess like metaphorically, right? Like if you have a flashlight, like that's a pretty big shadow. Uh, but it's not a big object.

SPEAKER_07 19:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Right. And I think that's kind of like the way I've thought, like, the further you pull back, that's a much smaller shadow. It's kind of the way I've been thinking about mental health and like depression and whatnot, is uh the more I talk about it, uh, the more I push it out into public, i.e., the light, the smaller it gets. Sure. Uh so decided as uncomfortable as it was to write a record about it.

SPEAKER_05 19:38

Um there's just such a a big movement against the stigma, especially with men right now. Like with uh Kevin Love wrote that article in The Athletic a couple years ago. I don't know if you if you ever read that or um No Khan's got the Busy Head Project. Do you feel that like seeing other people in the world speaking out about it has helped encourage you to do so as well?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Of course, dude. Absolutely. And and I mean everything from my dad's whole life is devoted now to like mental health coaching. Um and and and artists that are like like like Noah is a good buddy, and following leads of my friends that are like kind of front leaders, frontline folk. Uh yeah, it's just like I I'm directly benefiting from that. Um, and I'm a much smaller situation, but I it was kind of this thing of like, let's not wait till it's going well to start talking about this, right? Like, I feel like that's one of my one gripe with a lot of them. Like, why'd you wait so long until like you're a real famous to start talking about like Noah started from the scratch, you know? Like that's why he's so inspiring to me. Like that dude's just been talking about this and fighting for this when he was playing clubs. Yeah. So absolutely. So yeah, totally, totally encouraging.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Does it really much?

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Um to talk about, but let's do it anyways. Um married to an immigrant, my grandmother's immigrant, so fuck ice. Loving people isn't political, you know? That should have never become political. Take care, folks. Yesterday or a couple days ago, whenever it was, we were in a gas station and was get coffee, and this dude with just a bass fucking beard was sitting next to me. Looked at him and said, He had a cool thick accent, asked where he's from, and he said, uh, Russia. And I was like, that's like what are you doing? He said, I'm here like I was like, and we should be taking care of each other, right? We're gonna do it. Oh man, now I'm stuck between a few inches. We'll just let one see that.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

So boy.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Oh, that good. The gig is you gotta sing it. I'm not doing this alone, huh?

SPEAKER_06 22:59

It just can sleep in, sleeping for the wrong team. Going down in the year. Sugar we go and dance win. Number one with the boy. And down in the year. Sugar we're gonna dance win. Number one with the boy. Hurry got complex cocking boy. Oh my god, shouldn't I be the fiction? Is it mistaken? I just wanted to touch your baby. It just slides on it. You sleep it in, sleeping for the wrong tea. Go down down in the early sugar, gone down shit.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Oh man. Unbelievable. What in the world? He has sold his soul to something, man. That's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

And um, but before he came on, I was I said something about my therapist, and I like I just I saw like a little like like a moment where he was like, oh yeah, that's a thing that you guys that you guys do. You like your generation talks openly about your therapist.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, it's not a stigma anymore. Not at all. Really, is it?

SPEAKER_05 25:19

And I think that's great. And I and I appreciate what you're what you're contributing to the conversation too, man. I think that I think that's great. Thank you. Um you grew up playing classical piano. I did. And you were gonna go to Juilliard.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

That was the goal, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:32

And then what so what is it like for somebody who's growing up with the aspirations of playing classical piano at Juilliard? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Uh started when I was eight uh and went to 17, 18. Um it just looks like you know, at times like three competitions a weekend is kind of the mode. So it's it's like sports. Yeah, very much so. Um and so it's you know, you do regionals, state, nationals. That's it's genuinely just a sports competition of how well you play piano. And the more accolades you get along the way, the more likely your chance of getting into an I.E. Juilliard would be. Um I just hate it.

SPEAKER_05 26:19

From the from the get-go, or was there a I loved piano.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Loved piano. Um hated the competition piece. Feels weird.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

It does. It doesn't feel it feels antithetical to music. It does, yeah, isn't it? Yeah. It's not supposed to be competitive.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

I don't think it is. It I just don't, yeah. I don't think it is, man. And so I got I tried to quit a lot. Uh tried to quit a lot. And then at 17, uh, my dad got a job in Indiana, and I moved from my senior year of high school, and I took that as my out. Okay. I'm like, because my teacher was really aggressive uh with competitions, and you know, she's kind of like a show student teacher. Um and so when we went to India, I was like, I'm gonna get out and go jazz space, and so dove into that for about a year. Uh and then yeah, I ended up at this university for classical music performance, realized I don't want to do this, backed out. Tried to get uh my degree in music business, uh, but I ended up uh accidentally signing up to study fonts.

unknown 27:27

What?

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah, dude. I don't know what happened. It didn't click till like six weeks in. I'm sitting in this class and they're like, okay, we're gonna watch a documentary on Helvetica. And I'm like, oh no.

SPEAKER_07 27:38

I haven't seen that documentary.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

It's actually really good. I like love fonts now. But yeah, it was like after after I realized that, I'm like, oh, this is bad. I'm like, spend a lot of money to study fonts right now. Like, I don't even have a computer. Like, this is not good. Uh switched to music business for a semester. And my advisor, God bless her, whoever she is, I can't recall her name, I don't know where she is, but she told me to drop out. I told her, I'm like, I want to be a record producer. And she's like, this is a waste of your time and money. You should drop out and go into huge. And so I did that and devoted, you know, I figured I had a year of school. And I'm like, typically four years of school. So then I did three years of internship. So that was anyways, that was kind of classical music entity where I am now. Uh very haphazard movements.

SPEAKER_05 28:31

But all with a degree of intentionality and with like part of a bigger picture, it seems like. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Oh, always thinking of where I wanted to be, but always changing where I want to be.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

Yeah. Um you said earlier that you the the stuff you released under your own name was dog shit.

unknown 28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:02

I should bow that took to swimming, I told my liver, precious life to win I talked to my string, keep getting smaller, but all my clothes don't fit at the car. I try to stretch to sit there to left a burden. Ring Dog shit.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

What what changed between that and the music you're releasing under Halfway? Like why why is Halfway not dog shit?

SPEAKER_01 30:36

But the same stuff stuff what's dog shit. Oh man. I I I I think I think one, I was just a bad singer. Very real. I was trying to sing like Ray LeMontane. You can't do that. You can't just decide. You can't do that, dude. I swear to god, I heard my voice. Uh I was trying to sing like him. And then but I was really influenced by Bill Withers and Ray Charles and like the blues space. Um, but I hadn't lived anything close to what those guys lived. Uh so the songs I was writing were just largely fabricated. Um yeah, I just wasn't I wasn't good at any of it.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

I wasn't good at music. I can play, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

I can play, uh, but so can the manager of Guitar Center. Like, that's a low bar of being a good player, right? But all the bits that make you a good artist, I was bad at all of it. And I think the large difference is that one, I've lived, I'm 30, uh, like lived, I've had uh really great times, really hard times, like most of us. Um, and found out how I want to express myself, you know? Um kind of the same way that when I was five, I wanted to be a dinosaur, you know? It's like, yeah, of course, you know, like by 18, I'm like, I kinda still want to be a dinosaur, but at that point it looks like I want to be Bill Withers or I want to be Ray Charles. And it took until I was like 28 to realize, like, I'm not gonna be anybody else. Uh and then the devotion to figure out who I am is probably the thing that makes it more listenable.

SPEAKER_05 32:18

How did you learn how to sing?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Church. Yeah, church. Uh I yeah. Maybe. Maybe. I was singing in church. Okay. I wasn't good, but I was doing it uh for a long time, like seven years. Uh but I when I was singing in church, I I when I left church, something really clicked. Um because again, it was one of those things that I just was trying to be something. Uh but the practice of just singing weekly at least came from church, yeah. Uh unless I'm still figuring it out, you know? Like some nights I'm like, I don't know how to sing anymore. Uh then other nights I'm like, I think I got it tonight. Um we'll see what tonight is.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

I'm optimistic. You've had three days off, you know. How do you approach the songs that you write uh for other people differently than your approach to writing songs for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Uh different. Very situational, which is always the most boring answer, but it's very true. Um There's some artists uh that I feel like very akin to in the way they write, and maybe similar life experience or similar melodic instincts that I can feel like I'm just writing a song for myself with their words. Um Dermot, we've we've written a lot together. Uh, to the point where I've written songs in my head, I'm like, oh, this should be for Dermot. And then I'm like, ah, I'm keeping this one, right? Like, there's a song called Bone Sleep that I when I heard, I'm like, hey, we're gonna go work with this dermot guy. I like wrote that song, and I'm like, ah, I think this one is for me, actually. I'm gonna hold on to it. But then sometimes, like, Shabuzy, good example. Like, love that guy. We have nothing in common. Like, nothing in common. Totally. So a lot of it is just like trying on their shoes. Uh and you know, it's a bit study, it's maybe a bit more like brainy, less emotional at times when I'm writing for other people. Uh God, his voice is so good. It's so good, dude. Yeah, you should, dude. It's really good. Anyways, yeah, it's very situational. Okay. Very situational.

SPEAKER_05 34:32

I heard in an interview that you wrote Alpen Glow, which is on the on Wither. You wrote it like six years before Halfway was even a thing, and you almost gave up on it a number of times. Oh yeah. Why why what was it about the song that you were like, I I want to keep going with this? Because I'm sure there's songs that you just abandoned and that you never come back to. Yeah. So what was it about Alphen Glow that kept you coming back to it?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

It just said like exact I wrote up my first year of marriage. It just said exactly what I wanted to say about who I am, my first year of marriage. Yeah. It's basically just like a song saying, like, I it looks like I'm doing the wrong thing. I'm trying to do the right thing. Like, that's all the song is it's like, listen, my hands are red, I get it. I have heart's pure.

SPEAKER_05 35:18

I keep I promise you I'm trying hard.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

I keep fucking it up, but I'm like, the intention is there. And I've like, I feel like I wrote exactly what I wanted to say. So I held on to it. Uh I just didn't know how I wanted to sound. Uh in this last year I figured out how I wanted to sound.

SPEAKER_05 35:34

So you said a couple things. You said today, and I I've heard an interview previously talking about, you know, it would have been better if I figured out I wasn't doing well before ending up in the site or is there a little bit of bittersweetness at this point because Wither was born out of that experience?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Absolutely. Yeah. What would be the language? Like if I got a chance to do it all again, I would do it the exact same. Would you? I would. I would. I would try to hurt people less, of course. Sure. Like that if I could change one thing, it was every time I hurt folk, but it's hard to argue that like what's happening isn't meant to happen. Um I'm grateful I got to the sideboard when I did. Or else this would be a you'd be talking to a ghost, you know? Like I'm grateful I got there. So I ha I I'm not. I think it's largely to still feel grateful about all this. With bittersweet, yeah. I hated, I hated it. I hated it. Uh and I never want to do it again, but I will. I will if I have to. Absolutely. Uh so yeah, bittersweet is probably the right language, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:53

Um alright, so the last section of the podcast is always called Final Span. Let's do it. You could share a stage with any artist, who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Adele.

SPEAKER_05 37:05

Uh what's the first album you had that was just yours?

SPEAKER_01 37:09

It was a mixtape I found in the woods of random Leonard Skinnard songs. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You're gonna say now five. Probably pretty pretty simple. Yeah, it was just like a weird C burn CD. Just said Leonard Skinnard and Sharpie.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

If it wasn't for my wife, I wouldn't have written anything. And she uh made me lock myself in a room and tulsa and just said write for yourself to the burnt out and try to work at Lowe's. She's like just go write for yourself and see what happens, and that ended up being uh the first T D. So uh we're gonna end with that first tune.

SPEAKER_06 37:45

I love you guys, thank you for being a little bit small spirit by the cane, coffee and gas leave. Down, down, down the toe. Thurning water chat. Third, don't go in the sky, shiny.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Oh, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

If you could share a stage with any artist, who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Adele.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

Uh what's the first album you had that was just yours?

SPEAKER_01 41:41

It was a mixtape I found in the woods of random Leonard Skinner songs.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I thought you were gonna say now five.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Probably pretty pretty similar. It's just like a weird seed burn seedy. Just said Leonard Skinner.

SPEAKER_05 41:55

Like our greatest hits?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

There's just somebody just added random songs to this. That's how I learned guitar.

SPEAKER_05 42:01

Listening to that. Yes. Yeah, cool. Um they're making a biopic about your life. Who's playing the lead role?

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Matthew McConnell.

SPEAKER_05 42:09

Yeah, I can hear it in the voice. Yeah, big time. I've thought that before. I love you. He's so cool. Um, is there an artist or a band that you love that people might be surprised by?

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Uh huge turnstile. Oh, yeah. Huge turnstile. Yeah. I mean, like also Kendrick to my favorite artist all the time. I don't do anything like those guys.

SPEAKER_05 42:28

Yeah. So maybe those. And then the final question is who's an artist with less than a hundred thousand monthly listeners on Spotify that you think people should be listening to?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

There's a lot. There's a lot. I think the two that I would say check out Barrett and Cecil Coke. Cecilic Copley. Okay. Yeah, those are the two that I would say flag those are Coke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:50

Got it. And I'm excited to see Ryan. I I love that guy. Yeah. I thought they didn't see you, and then you would have to randomly. I was like, this is right.