Who’s the GOAT?
Who’s the GOAT? with Leroy Brito
Comedian Leroy Brito gets to the heart of one of the biggest debates in sport, music, and culture: Who’s the GOAT?
In each episode, guests from all walks of life reveal who they crown as the Greatest of All Time in their chosen category — whether it’s football, boxing, rap, comedy or beyond.
Who’s the GOAT?
Jonny Owen on Maradona, Brazil ‘82 & The Greatest World Cup Ever
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Football writer, filmmaker and broadcaster Jonny Owen joins me for the latest episode of Who’s The GOAT? – World Cup Edition.
We dive into Jonny’s earliest World Cup memories, growing up in Merthyr, the magic of football before the Premier League, the legendary Brazil team of 1982, and the player many still consider the greatest of all time – Diego Maradona.
Along the way we debate:
⚽ The greatest World Cup player ever
⚽ The greatest World Cup team ever
⚽ The biggest World Cup villains
⚽ Football’s greatest one-tournament wonders
⚽ The moments that defined our love of the game
⚽ Whether the World Cup has lost any of its magic
If you’re a football fan, a nostalgia lover, or simply enjoy great stories, this one’s for you.
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Welcome back to Who's the Goat World Cup edition? And I've got someone who I could just listen to, not even have a conversation with, just listen to talk football all day. This is the filmmaker and obviously Wales fan Johnny Owen. Welcome back to the pot, my friend.
SPEAKER_00Very nice to be back, Era. Very nice to be just chatting with me before we started about the World Cup. How do you feel about it? And it's just it's a funny one because Wales have started qualifying for competitions now, so we become a bit spoiled, didn't we? And we know this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We um as soon as as soon as um we missed that penalty, I just thought I didn't want to go with a World Cup anyway. It's gonna be a rubbish World Cup. And now that it's getting and now it's crept up on us, I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, um just as as a as a spectacle to see how this is gonna work because it's gonna be a different one. Plus, my family are from Cape Verde, so it's our first World Cup, so I'm really excited to see you know how they do. First game's gonna be tough against Spain, but uh yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be an interesting one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. Um I think um, you know, uh I re I read somewhere the other day that you know your first real World Cup you remember as a kid. It's like the feeling you get when you're a kid when you listen to a song, is you know, it's it's it's a much more intense thing. And I often think think back to sort of my life sort of like being dictated by World Cups. Like I remember, you know, I got a quick flash memory of 74, but I I very much remember 74.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna ask you, I was gonna ask you first World Cup, actually.
SPEAKER_00So you were born what what year were you born? So I was born in 71, and then I got a weird one of my first ever memories, and I don't know if it's because I've seen it so much, but I've got a I've got a little flash that I'm watching something in a room with one of my fathers, my brothers, and my uncles, and the rest of it, family, and it's the white of Germany and the and the orange of Holland, and I think that's the 74 World Cup final. So this I'm in a room and everybody's watching this television set. I got that sort of memory, but the one I remember when I'm seven or eight and I'm playing football and bit is Argentina, is Argentina. So I remember I remember um I remember us not qualifying as a Joe Jordan's handball, I cried. That's a family story. I couldn't believe it happened, and then obviously I remember then that World Cup and us all sort of going out and reenacting the the Mario Kemp best goal and all that.
SPEAKER_01That's you know what that's what used to happen. I remember, you know, as soon as my first World Cup, I was 81, I missed, I didn't really see 86, but 1990 was my first one, and everybody would be doing the the goals from the World Cup. It was just that was just the rights of passage, you know, on the pitch, you know, 20 versus 20, uh playing until the sunset.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I you know, obviously football isn't is a much is a it's a different thing now, it's a different beast. And in those days, it was very you know, live games were quite rare on television, they were internationals, the FA Cup final, the European Cup final. So the World Cup, this sort of like extravaganza, this festival of football where it was football on all day, was really exciting, you know. And the the the World Cup that I that I've got the fondest memories of is the 82 World Cup in Spain, and that's because um I'm 11 then, so I'm I'm I'm right, you know, I've got all the charts and all the rest of it. And my father, he's bought a little black and white telly for the kitchen, so we've got the main set so that we can watch it on the telly in the kitchen. And I I remember I remember those England played France and scored within about 30 seconds. I think Brian Robinson scored, and I got a memory a bit of us watching it on the television in the kitchen, and I'm allowed to watch it while eating my food. I think I had like stakelet and chips and um with beans, and um, and so that that world cup then was a magical world cup for me. People always said what's your favourite World Cup. I loved France '98 for the football. That was amazing. But my favourite World Cup is it's always the way with people, is the 82 World Cup in the sense that I was. I mean, because I was I was a fanatical about football at that point. I was when I was six or seven, I was really into it. But by 10 or 11, you're like, you know, you know what grounds, you know, where the groups are, you know, you filled in everything, the stickers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Was the ball a big issue back then in 82, or was it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so the ball was big. So the first um the 1970 World Cup, I've done, you know, I've done quite a lot of reading up on that because I've done a few podcasts about it. It's considered the best World Cup ever. And I think I do agree with that, even though it wasn't like best goal, best save, banks, best tackle, Bobby Moore, best kid. And it was the first time that a ball was sort of like seen as a beautiful part of the game. The 66 World Cup, if you think of it when you watch it, the ball still looks like it could, like, you know, if it was wet, it'd give you give you that sort of rain damage. It's like a big old leather ball.
SPEAKER_01I've always thought that it was almost like an a B C A D moment, that 70 World Cup.
SPEAKER_00Was it because of the colour and things like that? Yeah, exactly that. So you had colour for the first time, and I think, you know, if fashion-wise, by the by 74, the players were all growing their hair long, but by by 70, you know, they'd moved on from like the sort of like the short back and sides of the 50s, early 60s. They all look like they all look like film stars, they all looked a bit like Steve McQueen. They've all got the little sidebars, the hair's starting to grow, the clothes are magnificent, they're all dressed really smart. And uh, I think you're right. I think the colour, because a lot of it would have been shot on film and the sort of the image of that world, really Mexico, I just think gives it a real romance. And somebody pointed out something very interesting about that World Cup. It was the last World Cup, really, because '74 you had Germany where lots of away fans could get to. So you had lots of Dutch there and all the Scots travelled. But that World Cup was all Mexicans watching the football. There wasn't particularly the sort of away followings just in 1970. Yeah. So they cheered both teams to have this unique atmosphere. Yeah, yeah. So there was like there was this idea that like everybody just loved watching good football, you know, what didn't have the rivalry of the World Cups in that sense. And I just think that probably would have added to the atmosphere that you were watching something very special and very specific. I love I love those FIFA films they do. You know, they've done films on every World Cup, but I love the one on 1970. I love the one on 86 as well in Mexico, which is all about Maradona. They're great those films, you know.
SPEAKER_01They great, and I think as a filmmaker, and I appreciate film as well. It's the cinematography and the colours will come out, isn't it? It's that it's that Kodak colour that just comes out, and it's British and those yellow shirts. I mean, they're they are iconic. Yeah, I think that's also there was a Brito who won the World Cup in 1970 as well. So I've always got a soft spot, soft spot for that. But for me, 1990 was the one in terms of you know, everything just you know, it's it's almost like that beautiful summer of your life, isn't it? In terms of when you're a child, the days never ended, the summer holidays felt like 16 weeks instead of six weeks. Yeah, and it was just football, football, football. You'd go into your house for the tip top, you know, you'd get five pence for the tip top, can of coke, maybe. And then you got to LucasAid Sports with um obviously John Vance sending that to us as well.
SPEAKER_00I I the 19th World Cup, I was I was 18, I was 19 by then. So I was like, I was I was travelling, you know, like my I'd watched Cardiff and Mirth at home and away. I used to go to football matches every you know twice a week with my mates. So I was really, I was sort of I was glad to we didn't go to where it's been qualified because I don't I don't I would have gone to Italy, no doubt about it. Um but it was a it was an interesting World Cup because it the English have a real romantic view with Italy 90 because they see like Gaza's tears, you know, they they they get to a semi-final, and after that you get the sky explosion two years later, and a lot of people say yeah that that's a big part of it. And the music was, you know, the Ness and Dome, I think it was, wasn't it? The spin of the clock. Yeah, yeah. It all sort of came together for the for the English. I I kind of watched it as a as a sort of Wales fan, yeah, jealous, really. There was we weren't there like Italy and you know, travelling around. And I I know loads of English lads that went and they just they say it was the best summer of their life. A bit like what happened to us. I know it wasn't a World Cup, but a bit like France, France in 2016 for us was like that special summer, never-ending summer. I think a lot of England fans had that special summer in 1990.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's that coming of age, especially if you say your friends you're around 1920. It's that coming of age. Probably the first time people have been abroad as well. Yeah, you know, you know, in those times, other than you know, a package holiday to Spain, etc. Yeah, so it's it's just those magical moments looking back, and I'm wondering will people have that experience going to America, Canada, and Mexico next week? Because it doesn't feel like it's it's the people's game anymore in that respect. It's gonna be expensive to get there, you know. Cape Verde, you know, no one's gonna be able to fly from Cape Verde to be able to get into America firstly and then go to the games. There's a huge diaspora in America, but at the same time, it's just the games are just too expensive, and it just feels like I look back at nostalgia. Maybe it's just like everyone looks back with nostalgia of the glory days, but even I felt like 2002 was the turning point towards that. 98 felt like the last pure World Cup.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, I think there's a lot of treats in that, and I think it's because when we were lucky in France in the Euros, because it is when it's in one country, like you know, the English boys talking about sp Italy in 1990 or Spain '82, you're traveling around that one country and you get a real feel for the culture, and you're sort of hopping around the place. Once it spreads out, I mean, that awful idea they had in one Euros where they played in different cities and they're starting to do it in World Cups. I just I don't think this, I don't think that that helps the fan at all. And it's it's crimin criminally expensive to go, you know, it's sort of people costing people thousands of dollars, and that's a shame, really, because you know, it is still very much a working class sport football. It's loved by the masses. The vast majority of the players are always from working class backgrounds, and you kind of lose it a bit, then, if you're sort of overcharging for sort of semi-finals and filings, and and there's there's there'll be a talk to it. There'll be a point where people go, I'm not gonna pay that to it. I wouldn't. I go, I'm not paying it, I'm not paying it, you know.
SPEAKER_01I yeah, you can't justify it really, especially you know, even as a single guy, you can't justify if you're thinking of taking a family with you. Oh it's it's you know, extortionate, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Well, my mate is crazy. My mate who stopped this for saying he wanted to take him with his son, and he was saying, Johnny, I'm I'm not gonna have to spend 30,000 pounds to get over their games, travel. I was like, DL. He said, I know, he said it's just ridiculous, you know. And I'm like, you know, you can't do that, and in the end, you just think, well, you know, what comes first if you can't spend that could justify that kind of money, yeah. Uh, and sometimes, you know, I've I I I've watched games in Mertha for argument's sake. I watched like World Cup games in Qatar with my mates, and that's great. You know, you're around the communal telly at the football club and things like that. So it's the it's it's the next vex thing, and sometimes as good to watch it in the street with a lot of people, like do you know what I mean? I I love I love that, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Are you are you into basketball, Johnny?
SPEAKER_00I'm not no my mate Mark Webster that I do the podcast with, he's bang into it. He was the he was the channel four presenter, wasn't he, for a few years, wasn't it? I remember the name, yeah. I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_01It's the finals at the moment, and New York are in the finals, and they're two and it's going absolutely berserk in New York, and every bodega on the corner has got like a big TV outside, and it's hundreds of people just outside, and it's a communal thing. That's what sport does, isn't it? It's not supposed to be sat in some box eating a prawn sandwich, you're supposed to be there just enjoying it with people.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's a it's a wonderful thing when you watch it. Because of COVID affected uh one major total when we went to uh we were based up in Azerbaijan. I watched that, like you say in we all be spaced, but we watched it in like a marquee of the football club, and it was great. I really enjoyed it. I was gonna say, dude, have you heard about um you know the Sesame C uh Sesame Street character Elmo? Um he's been he's been trolled because he won he wished both sides good luck, and all the New Yorkers are going, you're meant to be from New York, Sesame Street's in New York. What are you doing wishing them luck? They were on they were on Elmo giving him a hard time.
SPEAKER_01Did he say good luck to both teams or something?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and everybody's going, You're a New York. I didn't you cut out there, but yeah. Yeah, he said good luck to both teams. And they're like, What are you doing? You're meant to be from New York. That's what it was, yeah.
SPEAKER_01To San Antonio. And he's like, Sesame Street is New York. I love the the you know, New Yorkers are just a different energy, aren't they? Um is the final in New York or New Jersey? Said again, sorry. The final, is it in New York or New Jersey? I don't know, actually.
SPEAKER_00That's a good question. Um, because I think it's New Jersey. I think it's New York because they've the stadium that they're playing in for the World Cup football, they've called that the New York New Jersey Stadium. Something but they might be sharing names.
SPEAKER_01It's the Met Life or something like that, isn't it? But that's that's what happens when America gets involved in football. But I'm gonna look forward to it. It's starting you know with seven weeks of football, so yeah, you know, I'm looking forward to it. What would you fancy, mate? Have you got anybody that you think is gonna win it, or do you think it's quite open? I think it's open because of the length of time and the conditions. Um they lost in a warm-up game against Ghana, but I think I still think France is incredibly strong. Yeah, I think France is really strong. Yeah, Spain as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just that pedigree. It's pedigree winning. England, England, if they believe in themselves, they got a good chance. Do you mean they got the players? Certainly.
SPEAKER_01Um I I think so. I think and he's picked a squad which he's he's gone for harmony. I think that's important, and that that you know, and it I think um McGuire proved him right, you know, even before the squad was announced, wasn't it, in terms of like his tweets and his family, etc. Yeah, um, yeah, but it's gonna it's gonna be interesting. I'm interested to see who who breaks out in this World Cup because it's it's difficult to break out on a World Cup these days because we know all the players. Yeah, back in the day, you know, you'd have uh you know a player who just come out of nowhere, and you know, it's it's it was the excitement of seeing players you've never seen or like even like '94 getting to see like Romario play when I didn't really get a season. That's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was the same in '82. So 82, the great Brazil team that didn't win it. They call them the greatest team that never won the World Cup. But you'd see Zico, Ede, you know, uh Socrates for the first time, and he was like, Oh my god, this is I mean, it was like football from another planet because you know they they they were all based in in South America. And somebody pointed this out the other day. You used to have sort of like what they called continental advantage. It was you know, I think only one European team ever won in South America, ever. That's Germany, went in in Brazil, and Brazil have only ever won it once in Europe and they won it in Sweden in 58. So players used to get homesick, and players would have stuff like stomach upsets. Gordon Banks famously came down with with diarrhea, didn't he? They did before a game in Mexico. That doesn't happen, that doesn't happen anymore because now you've got all the players, they all stay in very similar hotels across the world. There's all very sort of like five-star classic, you know, chrome and glass hotel, luxury buses, they play all over the world. So that's much less of a thing, I think, now that the old the old advantage of playing a World Cup. Yeah, I mean, there was so many host countries used to win it that right up until I think, you know, uh France in 98, something like about four or five of the winners were host countries, or or and at least got to the final. So even in 58, Sweden got to the final against uh Brazil, and they were the host countries. So you because and that's kind of gone now, I think. And I think you're right. I think it's because footballers have become so it's such a global game, or you know the footballers, and they they all live in in Europe and and whatnot. So that's changed, that's changed really.
SPEAKER_01Of course. So going back to your early World Cups, and even I suppose your early World Cups, who was your first World Cup hero that you just thought, look at this player. I've never seen this guy before, I've heard of him before.
SPEAKER_00I remember so 78. Obviously, I remember Mario Kempes, who was Argentina's sort of star player. So I remember him, but 82 was the World Cup that I was really sort of invested. And weirdly, it was it was a player who played for Italy up front, and he'd been banned from football for I think two years. It was it was some kind of betting scandal, I think. Okay. His name was Paolo Rossi. And he was a striker. Yeah, he was the striker for Italy, and he came back to this World Cup and he was picked again. It was quite controversial, but he came back at the Italy team. And he was the um, yeah, he was the player of the tournament, he won the golden boot, he scored the famous hat trick against Brazil, which knocked Brazil out, which was the big shock. Um, but I remember him really. I remember him just being a fantastic striker, and and a kind of redemption for him that he became the star of the World Cup after being banned. And they were talking about banning him for life, but he came back and he won that World Cup very Italian. And I always remember there was a player called uh, so when they played Argentina, they kicked Maradona all over the park, and the name of the centre half was ironically, his name was Gentile G-E-M. Like Gentle, and after that, they changed the rules. They said, look, you know we can't have this anymore because you know they targeted Maradona and they kind of stopped him playing the 86 because nobody could target him, he was too good by then. But you know, they they they they looked at that, and it was like there was this really famous game right in the semi-final. I always remember it. Um, West Germany played France, a brilliant French team. That was Platini and all them. And they went they went the penalties, but the boy, it's a really famous thing. If you look, people can look it up on YouTube. The German goalkeeper we played for Cologne, Schumacher, and he jumped for the ball and he hit this French fella. Um, and he he I think he fractured a vertebrae, he knocked something like six or five or six of his teeth out. It was it's one of the most horrendous challenges in the history of football. And the referee didn't even give a foul. Didn't carry on, crack on didn't give a foul. Yeah. So this this player, I think he was called um Battiston. Yeah, Battiston. I mean, the irony of the name is perfect for headlines, battered Battiston. But he he was he was smashed, and then France lost on penalties, and everybody was a bit like well, that's typical of the Germans, but then there was this great final against uh Italy, Germany, and I always remember the second goal was scored by a guy called Tardelli, Marco Tardelli, and that's the famous celebration where he's running as if like I've just scored the winning goal in a World Cup final for my country, and his reaction is like, Well, I would be like, or anybody else would be like if we just scored a winning goal for Wales in a in a major tournament. It's a great, great celebration. So I remember that World Cup is sort of burned on my memory because I think I'd I probably would have watched every single game.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I remember I remember doing that, you know, especially France Lightning, even 2002, because I would have been 21 at that time, um, and it was the Ronaldo um arc, and you know, obviously the the redemption arc. Yeah, so what a story, what a story. What a what a player as well. I you know, I was I was arguing with my niece and nephews the other day because I was saying Messi's the greatest of all time, and they're saying Ronaldo, and I'm explaining to them that Ronaldo's not even the best Ronaldo, it's it's ridiculous. It's it's um because people forget how good he was and what he could have been.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I like you said, that's so true. I I got such admiration for him because in '98, where he famously had the anxiety, the panic attack from a game, and he was a shadow of himself. And I mean, Zidane was sensational that game. He kind of wanted to win it, didn't he? And Zidane was so lucky to see these players. But then four years later, the comeback and to win the World Cup shows just remarkable spirit and and and and and and heart, really. Do you know what I mean? So not only was he a great player, but to do that four years later and say, look, you know, I was younger then, I had this panic attack. I don't know what came over me, a little bit of the pressure on Brazil, especially then. They were just, you know, they expected to win every tournament they went into it. And to come back four years later and win it, I just thought was was a great story. Uh and after those knee injuries as well. Yeah, one of the knee injuries, yeah. Incredible player, and also one of the most bizarre haircuts of all time as well. That sort of was the half ball.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you thought he was having another panic attack then, didn't you? In terms of what is going on. He just left the barbers halfway through.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Very good finds. But I think it was you know, those stories are those stories are what make the World Cup magic.
SPEAKER_01100%, 100%. So, who who would you say is the greatest World Cup player? Now, there's players who you know didn't get to play in the World Cup, but in terms of the greatest World Cup player, I suppose the performance during the World Cup. I think it's hard to put that in my in my lifetime.
SPEAKER_00You know, my father talks about Pele in 1958, and obviously 1970, that Brazil team was was sensational. But the the the the people that I watch, it is hard to look past uh 1986 and Maradona and the way he played and the way he dictated that World Cup and games, he was just unbelievable, and the pitches weren't great, but there he was, you know. So the way he was able to control the ball, that was that was an incredible tournament where somebody really stood out. And and again, Zidane in 98. I think you know, this whole idea that France was sort of like, you know, the pressure was under it's never been a tradition here, a footballing country, really, like say Britain is. But the way that he he pulled the country together and the celebration and changed changed the way France was after that. They were always in major tournaments, so and there or thereabout. And I think he was sort of symbolised that sort of one man. But I tell you what, that last World Cup was messy, I thought it was fun. That final was the one of the best, if not the best. It was one of the best couple I've ever seen. They were just like two heavyweight boxes smashing each other in the face, it was like end to end, always on the attack, Mbappé. That those moments are what make the World Cups great. But I think at the absolute peak, I'd say you've got to say Maradona in '86 was incredible.
SPEAKER_01It was just in terms of he dragged the whole country. Oh, it was astonishing. I mean, you know, he's got a form as well in terms of Napoli as well, doing it for Napoli.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, those four years he was unbelievable. Between '86 and '90, like you said, he was just he was unplayable, wasn't he? Really? You couldn't, you know, as England found, you know. I mean, uh the English go on about his goal all the time, you know, but it's fair enough. But the second goal was I remember my sitting next to my grandfather, my grandfather going, remember this moment, son. That is, you've just watched a bit of history there. I haven't been a kid going, okay, I'm from 14, I need to take this in, like, this is a big moment, you know, the goal. You know, it was just it was just a grip.
SPEAKER_01That goal was, you know, I was I was too young, but I'm you know, it's it's still like part of the folklore in terms of marathon. And it's against the English as well, so it makes it even more sweeter, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's an interesting because the John Barnes came on that game and made such a difference. And um England he'll equalised right at the very end. A cross came in. I can't remember who it was, somebody almost headed in. And um, and uh England England had a good side that World Cup. Uh, but Maradona, like Baradona was just the difference, really, uh, between you know, those there's that famous photograph. I don't know if you ever seen it, he was in a pub in Cardiff. It was a great photograph, and it's it's him, and he's facing he's playing Belgium in that World Cup, and it's something like four, yeah. They stood watching him like I'm like, it's a great photograph. It kind of sums up the way teams were having to play against him, putting like six, seven men on him. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because he played a different and it's so difficult to compare errors because it's a different sport, it's a completely different sport in terms of like you know, and he would be able to handle himself in today's game. They say sometimes, you know, in different sports, like um, who's the player? Um, Puscus? They say what was he, you know, what was he doing back in the 50s? We'd be able to do you know, no, he was play, he was the peak of what of what the game was then.
SPEAKER_00I always think this will be. By yeah, every sport you have in football rugby, oh, you know, would would say Barry John have been the same because he was only 12 and a half stone. I'm like, but he but he wouldn't have been now. There'd have been diet and training and all the rest of that. Exactly. So you know, I think any great from any era would automatically fit into any era of sport. Like I said, Puskus now would be a world superstar. You know, he was just he was a genius. You know what I mean? Exactly. And that's what that was an interesting World Cup. So 54. It's fascinating this. Hungary only lost once, I think, in seven years, right up to the revolution. And they lost the World Cup final to Germany, right, in 54. They'd beaten Germany, something like 8-2 in the qualifying rounds, right? They were they were huge favourites. They were 2-0 up, right? 2-0 up. It was a mucky day. But the Germans had these boots on that were designed by a guy called Adi Dazler, who later became very famous as a DS. And they the studs made the difference. So the Germans won 3-2. They won the World Cup. And it was the first time Germany had been allowed back into a tournament since the Second World War for obvious reasons. But it was a big this is how powerful the World Cup is. It was a real cathartic moment for the German nation. They were feeling like more guilt and the rest of it. And when they went back to Germany, when the train went through every train station, all stations were packed. And it was a real feeling that they could be proud to be German again for some reason. So that's how important football can be. And it's called the Miracle of Burn. And they made a film about it, and it's still the biggest one of the biggest gross in German films in Germany ever. That's how important the World Cup can be for countries. Incredible. I know.
SPEAKER_01And they won't fight by technology, basically.
SPEAKER_00They went 3-2. And um, and everybody was like, they couldn't believe that they'd beaten the Hungarians, and it kind of forever then set Germany up as going, the Germans will always, you know, battle you well and either you know take you right to the inst degree in any kind of uh scenario, but unusually win. So they sort of set that old sort of psychology of Germany being this team that are very, very difficult to beat. And you know, it's funny, Leroy, because when you speak to people outside Britain and you talk to them about the 66 World Cup, and it kind of makes sense. They just go, Well, it was it wasn't a goal, and it wasn't a goal, you know, the goal that didn't cross the line. Yeah, they go, they just go, Well, you know, the ball didn't cross the line, and you go, Well, of course. So I always love the English, they always go to a maradona cheating, and I'm like, Yeah, but the rest of the world thinks that you won a World Cup with a ghost goal. It's a good job Hearst did score that fourth goal, otherwise, you know, imagine the controversy that would have been. So there's, I think, like those moments become part of a country's history, you know. 66, you know, if you think of it, England swing in London, the Beatles, you know, there's there's there's Kitchen Sink dramas that are selling across the world, London swings. It's like a high watertide mark, really, for England as a country that like they win the World Cup, they've got the best bands, the best films, the best art, you know, fashion. It feels like the centre of the world. So it's amazing how things can coordinate for a country and it can be coalesce, don't they?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's what's beautiful, you know, about World Cups.
SPEAKER_01It is. I want to talk about the ugly side of the World Cup. Who would you say is uh the villains of the World Cup? And this doesn't have to be a player. Um so my villain for the World Cup is like a Vuvo Zeila. So that was the thing I was doing my head in during the 2010.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like my father, my father, my late father couldn't watch it. He was like, I can't watch this. Like a like you said, it's like a it's like a store, a swarm of angry bees watching a match with you. I think I just mentioned them. The Germans have always sort of played the role. My mate said that um well, I read it right, they won't describe it. They're like the Darth Vader of World Cups really, aren't they, Germany? They're kind of like they're always like they're just impossible to sort of um. I mean, when they went to Brazil and they won that game where like they were just like you know, humiliated Brazil in their own backyard. There was no like a bit like the old blacks, I was thinking rugby. There's no easing off, there's no point where they get to 60-70 points and you go, Do you know what we can ease off here? They've just got that mentality go, we're gonna keep scoring, we're gonna just stamp you into the dirt. Yeah, very German sort of way of playing football. And I always think like they play brilliant, um, brilliant villains, really, I think, in that sense, the Germans. And uh and interestingly enough, a Uruguay in 86 were everybody's least favourite team because they were really seems really dirty. Okay. And we had we had a five-a-side team in Mertha that we named after them as a per laugh, the grey Uruguay, the grey Uruguayans, because they were just they were just seen as being like really, really sort of like you know, all on the edge of the law, and and there was a there was a big fuss in the press over here about about it all. Um so the Uruguayans in '86 are always seen as kind of like a pantomime villain, but I'd have to say it's probably Germany.
SPEAKER_01Germany, yeah, of course. There's always been Suarez as well in the World Cup. Suarez. He'd got the whole continent of Africa against him.
SPEAKER_00I forgot about that. And the fact he's on the side of the pitch, and when they save the penalty, he's giving it all up. Amazing. Yeah. He's like handed the ball, he's gone to a penalty, they'd save the penalty. He's celebrating, you just think that's delicious, that's delicious drama, in it. That's you couldn't write the show as a shithouse.
SPEAKER_01It's like Emmy Martinez level of shithousery.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's right up there with Joe Jordan, you know, for us to that kind of sort of kissing his hand after where you just go, You handed it, and he kissed your hands.
SPEAKER_01You know there's cameras as well, but uh yeah, yeah. Beckham Beckham was up there as well with it, you know, in terms of he went through the the whole journey, didn't he? Of turning to you know, being a the hero, the villain, the hero again.
SPEAKER_0098 was a good World Cup. I really enjoyed the France World Cup. Um, and like you're right, England only got to the last 16, I think, in that World Cup, that famous game against Argentina. It was because they'd done something daft in the in the in the qualifying rounds, they'd drawn with somebody, so they had the more difficult side of the draw. But it that went to penalties. And um I one of the most iconic, I think there's um a massive podcast named after where Quickly Kevin is where they say to David Batti's walking up and the comedy goes, Quickly Kevin, will you score? Yes or no? And he goes, Yes, and he misses. And I think there's a podcast that run, I think it's Josh Whitaker, all about the 90s. I think it's I think it's called Quickly Kevin after that line.
SPEAKER_01So that's how like iconic moments in small moments.
SPEAKER_00Small moments, and I think I think it's interesting because Michael Owen was never as good as he was in that game again the rest of his life. He was he peaked so young. He did, he did. He was he was amazing that game, it was such a huge game. And and I just remember like I'm watching that in a pub in South Wales, and everybody bunched around for the penalties. Like, and I can remember like this girl going was there, uh there's oh, I only like I only like the penalties, and she came in to watch the penalties, like, and we were there, like these snobby poorists going, you're gonna watch the whole game, you know. She's like, nah nah nah, this is the drama, and of course she's right, you know, penalties are amazing drama, and uh, I just remember that. I remember that. And the first of the penalties, and if you know this, were in the 1982 World Cup. You see, they were in Spain. That was the first time that there was a penalty shootout, and France went out to Germany. That was the big thing. I think D D6 missed the penalty. The team he scored. I can remember it. But the Germans, of course, Germans won the penalty shootout, of course they got through. But they lost in it, they lost in the final. They made two finals in the 80s, they made the 82 final, they lost 3-1, and they made the um 86 final against um Argentina. They won the 1910. And then they won in 90. So they won in 90.
SPEAKER_01So they had that Cafu streak because Capu was 94, yeah, 98, and 2002, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_00That's it, the Cafu streak. And interestingly enough, obviously they won, they were there in 66 in the final. They were they got to the semi-final in 70, the game of the century, a game against Italy, which is 4-3 an extra time. One of the considered the greatest game ever. 74, they win it. 78, obviously, they don't, but and then, like I said, in 82, 86, 90, they're they're they're they're incredible country, really, when you think of them in um in Europe, in world history. And they gotta call them the mineshaft. That's the nickname the German people have for the national team. There's a real special place in their in their sort of hearts. And there's not many countries that have a sort of nickname for the national team like that. With the with the held in the Azuri is is Italy obviously, but the blues and yeah, I said they call the Mexicans call their football team L Tree. Brazil, the select selected cow or select. Yeah, selected. There's a name the Brazilians have got as well, isn't there? It's not that well known, the Brazilian one, because I was thinking Brazil must have a name, and I I looked it up. But the azuri are interesting because uh what I say is they go, I never thought of that. Of course, the Italian flag is red, white, and green. And they go, why do Italy play in blue? And it's because when they were initially sort of nation-state Italy, one of the nation-states was Savoy, and the royal family there, their colour was blue. So that became the colour of the national team. It's nothing to do with the flag or anything else, it's to do with this ancient part of Italy that was once a kingdom, and that's where the the uh the forza azul comes from. Is that they played in uh the royal blue of uh the Savoy house? It's great when you review the stories of white white teams played.
SPEAKER_01I love I love these like World Cup trivia things. I suppose the next trivia question is catfish of the World Cup. Who is the player who you thought, wow, look at this player, and they were great for four weeks and then they were absolute garbage once they went to a club, got their big move and went to a club.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Thomas Brolin is the famous one, isn't he?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I remember him. Yeah, yes, he was he was a little bit not a shot shame, but he was a bigger guy, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_00He um he had a great World Cup. I think Sweden got to it might have been '94. Yeah, they got to Captain Captain. Henry Larson's before Cup.
SPEAKER_01He's Cape Verdean as well, just so you know this. So the Cape Verde team could have a ridiculous team. So Henrik Larson's dad is Cape Verde, Patrick Sierra's mum is from Cape Verde. Um, Nanny is obviously from Cape Verde. Um, I think Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo's nan is from Cape Verde. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. My family, I never got called up, but you know, it's it's it's alright with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're right. I think I think they came third in '94 this week at a great world cup. And he was brilliant. And then they brought him over here, and I think I think he went to go into Leeds and he turned up and blessed him. He was a bit overweight and not quite the bit. But he had a really good, he had a really good World Cup, didn't he? Uh, and that can that used to happen. There was a there was a yeah, I mean, he did have a there was a player who played for Cameroon called Roger Miller, who did this great in 1990, and it became like a thing then to celebrate goals in a certain way. And he apparently was about he was like about 94 years old or something. He was playing, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He was he looked old, um, but he was older than he looked as well. And he still, you know, he's he still tore up, didn't he?
SPEAKER_00Because I remember it was fantastic. Cameron were really good. They had this they had this ding-dong match with England. It was a really it was a really good game. England's 90 World Cup is a bit of a bit of a myth, really. They become an urban myth. It was they they kind of struggled in the group, then they they did they did beat Cameron in this great game with like penalties and all sorts. A bull fest against Belgium where they scored at the very end. But they did have that great game against Germany in the semi-final, and of course, you know, it was one of the great missed opportunities, and the start of the hooler, you know, couples coming home, and we always lose to the Germans, all that kind of stuff as well. So mythology. Gascoigne, Gasgum was there. We are Gasgum was great at that World Cup. He was the first British player I've seen in a long time that could sort of go from box to box and just could beat the could beat the man. You know, that lost art of like going past somebody, and then once you go past somebody, the defence is all over the shop. He was great at doing that, you know. Uh Gascoigne. And um, so I I you know it it was one of those things where I remember when I did uh I did a documentary about Wales getting the Euros called Don't Take Me Home, which did really well. But yeah, a lot of England fans were going to be, oh, only Wales would make a documentary about this semi-final. I was like, No, you did. It's called One Night in Two Ring, and I shut them up straight away then. I'm like, no, no, you don't understand sometimes what what it can mean getting to a semi-final to a country, and when England got there, it changed English football. And also, what you had, Leroy, was the everybody was terrified about hooliganism, especially that at that point, 1990. Who were going to travel, what was it gonna be like, you know, was there gonna be loads of trouble? And of course, the opposite happened. It was this big celebration, and and as the tournament progressed, you know, the fans were well behaved and it kind of changed. And I think people who people who know how to make money at the things sort of, oh, football, there's an interesting place where you can go make a lot of money. That was it then.
SPEAKER_01That that was the start of it, I thought the floodgates, the floodgates opened. Absolutely, absolutely now. We've got a seven-week World Cup over three continents.
SPEAKER_00I mean, one of the one of the most annoying things, I think, for a lot of people is they've made it practically impossible not to get through to the next round. Well, I I don't what's the point that's that's what you get into sort of Champions League territory where you just make it really really easy for the big teams to get through and you lose the jeopardy, and you've got to be careful with that because the original European Cup was great because there was so much jeopardy, you know, where it was over in two games, and so that's a bit you know, I don't understand why they do it.
SPEAKER_01It's money in it, they just want they want the big teams, they just want the big the big markets to just continue flying through and as many games as possible.
SPEAKER_00And it's interesting because we proved that wrong. I always remember one of the most things I was proud of in 2016 was like they always want the big countries to get through the finals for advertising and money, yeah. But but Wales and Iceland story, people forget this in sport, was loved across the world because people love it on a level when when somebody's an underdog gets through, they forget this. They'll be one of this World Cup, they'll be a team in this World Cup where everyone goes, and people love it. They they they fail to miss that, but then these people are more like into money, they have no souls, Leroy. They don't understand the romance of the city. No, they don't have any soul, they don't.
SPEAKER_01We're talking to you, Gianni, infantino. That's who I'm talking to right now. So, what's your what's your prediction now for this World Cup, then in terms of I I said France, who do you think is gonna who's gonna, you know, I I think I think it's pretty hard to see to look past France or Spain for me.
SPEAKER_00I think like I said, I think England have got a really good chance if they believe, but you said something very, very uh pertinently earlier on when you said pedigree. It's amazing in football how winning becomes a habit. I always said if England had have won that Euros where they lost on penalties to Italy, they could have broken the front gates open for them and psychologically. So if England has just had to believe they're gonna win, it's very difficult, you know, because of all the weight of history and it you know becomes another four years and all the and the pressure that under from their media, as we know as people who are not English, for me is insane. I just think it's ridiculous, you know. And you know, but that's never gonna change, you're never gonna stop it because it's just this sort of I don't know, they whip up this feeling that you know it's coming on, we're gonna win it, and you just go, if you just eased them off a little bit, they might give a chance. Just actually chill.
SPEAKER_01I know, I know. I think I think England the feeling at the moment, because I even saw Harry Kane mention um about Gary Lineker, I think, and he was saying like some of the commentators need to just realize they've been in this position. I think the fact you're actually saying that right now, just before the tournament, yeah, means that it's already, you know, it's already getting to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I could I agree, and it's it's surprisingly because obviously people like Sheera Rooney, Lineker who will commentate this now. You go, you never won it. You never won it. You never went part of the history of not winning it. Yeah, and you're just a bit like it's incredible the press. I mean, my my wife is English. I live in England. I love love living in England. Lots of my best friends are English. I th I think it's an amazing country. But the one thing I will say is they put way too much pressure on their team. Not so much the fans, a lot of the press, especially. You just call the press the machine. Yeah, the machine ease off them. I think we have something similar in Wales or rugby, you know, where everybody's just sort of like it's either feast or farming. We're either the best team in the world or the worst team in the world. And if we lose, it's like it's a and you know, it's it's it's a perpetual crisis in the Welsh rugby. You know, it's like from roots to the Angies. We have a similar thing with that. And the football team I felt in Wales has kind of benefited on the fact that there's not as much pressure on them, and especially in 2016, where we were all just happy to be there. This amazing thing. It was an enjoyment, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01It wasn't an enjoyment of that. I'm gutted I didn't get to go to um to France. I um my daughter was born in the March. I went to New York in May to work, do some gigs. So then going, coming back and then being able to go to France. My wife was just like, You could try, but I'm not, I wasn't even gonna try, I wasn't even gonna try doing that. So I missed it all. But I did watch it. Obviously, you watch it with the boys and everything. But it was great. That's what I'll do in this World Cup, enjoying it with the boys.
SPEAKER_00It was great back in Wales, though, wasn't it? You know, I mean people I was I was in France, um, but everybody was thinking it's fantastic back home, you know, people in the streets, communal watching, those fan parks. And it's very interesting. I thought, I thought England were clever year, where especially under South Gate, they looked at Wales that tournament, and they came down, he came down to the FAW Southgate and he and he said, What have you done? And he tried to implement that in England. Yeah, and because I think England looked at that and thought, well, if Wales are getting the semi-finals, we should be able to get to semi-finals. And they and they and they have done, you know, they've kind of gone. I think that gave them an idea of going, this this is not right that Wales again at this point, you know, we need three million people, and they've got what 55 million, and you know, and they're the richest FA in the world, they've got the most money, they put the most investment into things. So they should be, you know, there or thereabouts. So it's very interesting that you know, South Kid looked at the Welsh squad and how they behaved and the fans and the and and sort of the whole spirit around the camp and tried to implement that with England. And he got pretty close, didn't he? I mean, it went to that from the last tournament, but it's went especially in 2018 over in Russia. They England looked like they were enjoying themselves for the first time in a long time. I felt at a tournament.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the key, and I think that's what Tush's trying to do. He they've got the players, there's never been a question in terms of the quality of players. Um, it's just that mental, you know, might maybe you know, way for too long, the pressure of the press just coming down on you. Um so I think that's what he's trying to do. Uh we'll see. We'll see. I'll be watching all the England games. I mean, I don't mind, you know, if they you know if they win, that's that's it's it's I'm happy for the people of England, it's just the press will be it's like Arsenal. I want Arsenal to win, but it's just the fans are just constant. It's like give it a break.
SPEAKER_00Everybody says that, don't they? It's like, you know, uh, but I think you know, if um yeah, if if they get through and they get a bit of luck and they believe in themselves, um, then they've got every they've got every chance. I I mean I've watched a lot of Elliot Anderson this season because obviously I've worked for Forrest and he's he's a really good player. And players like him, Harry Kane, I wish I mean I really wish Harry Kane was Welsh. I think he's a fantastic player. Oh, he's ridiculous, isn't he? He's ridiculous, you know. So you just go, you're right to the beauty because they've got the players, you know, Declan Rice, you've got players who get to Champions League finals, and so you know, they've got every chance, but then you when you do look at the French squad, you think, dear me. So the French will either like be amazing or they'll implore like they're a row on the bass or something. Yes, yeah. And and and and Spain as well. I mean, Spain, they they they're just so they're so tactically good, the Spanish, and they the way they play, the way they coach them when they're kids, you just you just know they're gonna they're gonna be there or thereabouts as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then you can see you think speaking of the coaching, you think of the quality of Spanish coaches uh around the world. It's astonishing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the weather, Leroy. I mean, they talk about this, the Welsh FAY say, you know, we they try to they try to get all the weather pitches in wheels, very difficult when it's raining and it'd be spraining you today. But in Spain, when you've got that weather, it's a bit like Australia, you know, they're great at sport in Australia because it's great to go out and go swimming and not all this every day.
SPEAKER_01This has been my argument for years. Why don't they change the children's football season to like April to October? Yeah, you'd get so many more because I remember as a kid, you wouldn't play all all winter, and then summertime you'd have about 15 games in one week, you know, try to cram all your fixtures and everything. So just like work with what you've got, and all weather pictures are great. I mean, imagine having that those facilities as a kid. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Well, Wales, the Welsh FA have been very good on this, and they've they've they've built quite a lot. They put one up in two, I think, in Murphotville recently. Yeah, and then we actually yeah, yeah, say, look, we're trying to put as many all-weather pitches as we possibly can so kids can play to the next generation. So they they they're trying, and I huge credit to them for that. I think it's really important. France apparently has superb. My mate of mine moved to France. Uh, he was a he was a freelance writer, so he went to this village and he said, When I moved this village, he said, down the south. He said it was like a communal pitch, and the first thing goes over there's kids with the ball, and the fellow shouts to him, stops his bike, shows him where you can knock the floodlights on. So you said, I got the floodlights on, you know. You just go, you just go, that's that's a really clever way of sort of sport, you know.
SPEAKER_01So you're just thinking in terms of like the social impact on that, you've got all these kids playing football, they're not all hanging around the streets, you know, they're doing something. Um yeah, I remember going to France and just I remember maybe it's in my memory, but quite close to the Eiffel Tower, there's like a little cage football pitch. I remember seeing players play there, you know, and it's just like you go, you know, I've been I've been on the cruises recently, so I'm traveling everywhere. You always see like a communal space where people are doing sports.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's brilliant. I mean, like there's no it's no coincidence that South London at the moment is very prolific for producing footballers, and there's lots of pitches down there, it's because they're able to play, you know, and there's lots of teams and you join them. So it becomes self-fulfilling, really. And I think that's what Wales has got to do. I think you're right to think if we could just get as many kids to play in clubs. The Dutch were have been brilliant for decades in football, and they are kids, just as a all join teams, and they're very interesting, actually, because somebody says the culture in Holland is different. In Britain, we go, Who do you support? But in Holland, when adults meet each other, they go, Who did you used to play for? And they all have like teams, they they they come through like boys' clubs over year. Yes, and that that sort of everybody plays football all the time, and so you've got the you got the Iceland who I think are pretty good on it as well. So you get this whole thing where they they're training, you learn about teamwork, you know, it's it keeps you fit. There's no end to the good reasons.
SPEAKER_01I didn't have any coaching as a kid. I had um, and you know, bless him, he was great. My you know, the the first team captain at Buke Town was essentially given the task of running the kids' team, so he would turn up and take us to the game. We didn't have any coaching, we didn't have anything, and it was just like play whatever you want, even in school. And I wish there was someone who would have told me just be a right back up and down, up and down, and teach me how to do that instead of me thinking that I was gonna be, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know. I it's funny because we we met a mate of mine, um Di Driscoll, the promo guy, great guy, and he's done his badges, and he's like, Well, I've done some badges, you know, and I've and I've and I thought that's a really good attitude to have, you know. I'm and I'm as guilty as anybody. I mean, especially if I was back living in Wales, there's nothing to stop you just going on a Welsh FA course doing basic training, and then you can just join in with the local kids, then can't you? And you can give something back. I and you know, I think I think that's some that would be really important for people to do that.
SPEAKER_01And if if not many people know, but the the Welsh FA coaching is one of the best in the world, it's world class. Right. You think the people who've come through there. So I remember going to an event once, and you know, funny enough, Mikel Arte. Was has gone through the Welsh process. That's true. Thierry Henry has gone through the process, Patent Vieira. So the quality of coaching from you know from the Welsh standpoint is brilliant.
SPEAKER_00And I think that goes back to Oshan Roberts as well, doesn't it? It's Oshan, yeah. And I think they built they got the place, I think it's called uh Dragon's Park, as they got the one in the right there. I played against Ian Rush there. And they've got the one, they've got the one up north now as well. I think that's Collier's Park up in near Wrex and they built. So when they get into the major tournaments, I was so gutted we didn't make it. People don't understand. By the way, get into a major tournament, it means more money comes into the Welsh FE, and then they build all weather pitches, they get people trained up as coaches, they get kids in clubs, it all becomes part you know of a self-estimate. You see, you see it in 20 years' time. Yeah, England have been brilliant at this. You know, they got the St. George's Park and they got all these things, but it's the investment in, you know, in constantly investing in, you know, facilities, coaching, staff, all that kind of thing. It you know, it's it's it's so important, you know. 100%, 100%.
SPEAKER_01So are you going back to back home to watch the games or are you staying in London now for I mean, I mean, I'm back and forth a bit more.
SPEAKER_00I'm doing a bit for talk sport, I'm doing some shows around the World Cup for them. Me and Sean Deich has become a good mate of mine. I'll have a lesson to that. Yeah, we're gonna do some shows together. They kind of like the fact that you know I'm not English, that I'm able to sort of bring a little bit of outside you know opinion and balance to it, you know. And like I like me and you, I just keep going. If you just all calm down, you might win this. You know, momento.
SPEAKER_01Uno momento, that's all right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly, exactly. So yeah, looking forward to what about you, mate? What are you watching? You've never watched it the lines.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna watch a lot of it on at home and some games with the boys, I think. So I've got a I've got a Spanish friend comedian, Ignacio Lopez. So we're playing them. I say week, Cape Verde playing them for the first game, so I'll watch it with him. I'll probably watch it with a few of the diaspora as well. And then I'm on a few cruises during the World Cup, so I'll be watching her in the bar on the cruise. So so yeah, so so yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting, it'll be interesting. I watched the obviously I'm a villa fan. I watched the the Forest game on a cruise, and I watched the final on the cruise as well. And there was a few Villa fans there, but there was one guy in full Man United kit in the bar, and I'm talking Premier League badges for kit, and I'm thinking, why would you bring that on holiday with you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it makes no sense.
SPEAKER_00It's really like whenever I go on holiday, my miss will ask me, I got about five or six different wheels tops, retro ones, the yellows, the yellow one, you've got the yellow one. Yellow, I got more, and my missus always goes to me, you always bring them out, they're mic because people will know, and you know, sometimes I often get approached that people have a chat to you because they go, Oh, okay, wheels, yeah. So that's where you do it. It's like it's like your way of telling the world who you are and where you are, too.
SPEAKER_01Well, especially in Europe, you just want to say, I'm not one of them crazy, you know, British people.
SPEAKER_00I know, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I always the waiters when I was a kid when we used to wear wheels tops. We always go, you know, especially Spain, well, you're you know, Mark the international language of players, and of course, Gareth Bale, when he was like arguably, if not the most famous player in the world, in Messi Ronaldo, you know, everybody would just go, Bale. You go, yeah, yeah, yeah. What a player in a sense.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, we don't think Bale's probably the best player never to play in a World Cup.
SPEAKER_00Um he did play in the World Cup, ignore me. Ignore me, ignore me. He scored uh he scored against America, gigs. Yeah, Georgie Best, I think, is is is probably the one that everybody says should have played in the World Cup. Um Poori and Rush, Mark Hughes, Giggs, quite a few Welsh ones were brilliant. Neville South Best goalie in the world, never played in a World Cup. But I think, yeah, the the the I think you're right, I think Giggs, but Georgie Best, I mean it's such a shame that you know he didn't make it. But you know, it's this it's this is the price we play pay for being from a small country. Saying that when we do beat a giant, like when we beat, I don't know, say for instance, Belgium, there's not they they will never have the feel they will never have the feeling we have that way. You just go, I've just knocked a big, big, big boy on his arse to me. Favourites, favourites are as well, because they've been favourites for years. They've been favourites to that tournament. They call them the billion, they had a name for him in the Belgian press. I mean, it transits like the billion-dollar team because they were worth a billion pounds on the pitch. And when I look back here, I had that game and I was a bit tournament and I look at the well at the Welsh lineup, it's well fine, you know, Hal Robson Carnegie. He's out of contract at Red In. And then you look at the it was like it was like Lukaku, Fellini, De Bruiner, you know. Um I was like, what the hell? This team is incredible. I wouldn't beat them. I know, yeah, they were great to him. Yeah, Côtoir and goals, and of course, yeah, it was just just a he's still playing. I think he's still in goals in Belgium. Best goalie in the world at the time. And what does Al Robson can't do it? Flick it around in the world. He sells turmerics and he sells turmeric these days. I know I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I've seen it, I've seen it. Good for you, John, apparently. Yeah, great for you. I'm I'm on it, I'm on it.
SPEAKER_00I'm at that age now, so everybody's a little turmeric shot every now and then when Mrs. Gets them. She's like, try one of these, and like, okay. Ah, lovely, lovely. There we go.
SPEAKER_01Thanks so much for doing this, mate. I really appreciate it. It's always good to catch up with you. And I'll um I'll give us give us another plug for your show and your podcast on Talk Sport as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I do a podcast called If You Know Your History with Mark Webster, which does really well. That's about football history. And we do this, we do this one on the 1970 Mexico World Cup and why it's the greatest World Cup ever. We explain to you why that is. And I'm back on Talksport, I believe, uh next few weekends running on Saturdays and sometimes Sundays with Sean Dice just talking about the World Cup. So, yeah, and good luck to Kip Verdi, mate. Good luck to your uh your team. Thank you very much, thank you very much. I've got I'll keep an eye out for them now.
SPEAKER_01Now you said about it. Yeah, keep an eye out for us. We got some good players, and um the coach has got the same name as my grandfather, Pedro Brito. So it's a lovely, lovely to hear that name on TV.
SPEAKER_00Nice, nice tie up. Thanks, Leroy. Thanks, and good luck later, time. Cheers, pal. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_01So that was my chat with Johnny. Hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, please press the like, subscribe, comment, and share the hell out of this podcast. Um, it's going to be going for the whole of the World Cup, two episodes per week. And the next episode is going to be on Monday with a special guest. I hope you enjoy it. Um, before you go, um, if you do like my stuff, um, you can find me at LibraBrito.co.uk. You can sign up to my mailing list for all my dates in terms of tour dates, podcasts, all that type of stuff. And I'll see you on Monday.
