As You Go: Reimagining Discipleship Beyond Evangelism

The Great Commission commands us to make disciples, not just converts, and our understanding of this distinction changes everything about how we approach Christian life and ministry.

• "Make disciples" is the command in the Great Commission, not "go" as is commonly misunderstood
• Discipleship and mentorship have similarities but aren't the same thing
• Many Christians mistake evangelism for complete discipleship
• True discipleship includes relationship, not just conversion
• Fear of inadequacy is the main reason people don't disciple others
• Seminary education isn't required to disciple someone else
• Jesus gave the Great Commission to ordinary fishermen, not theological experts
• Prayer is the first step in beginning a discipleship relationship
• Ask God to show you who He has intentionally placed in your life
• Discipleship can happen in groups, not just one-on-one relationships
• Both the discipler and disciple need humility in the relationship
• Many young believers hesitate to ask for discipleship for fear of being a burden
• Older believers are often willing to disciple but haven't been asked
• The church can help facilitate discipleship connections

Transcript

Welcome to Jet Fuel Podcast

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Jet Fuel podcast , a series of Concord conversations . In each episode , our lead pastor and a guest will sit down and dive a little deeper into what we learned as a church that week . These are honest , practical conversations to fuel your faith and help you live it out with purpose and consistency . Or in other words , this is Jet Fuel for your soul .

Speaker 2 0:23

Or in other words , this is Jet Fuel for your soul . All right , here we are again , week three of our Jet Fuel Concord conversations , man loving it . Today we've got my man , eli Sorrow , with us , our college director , here at Concord and the owner of one of the most glorious beards on staff .

Speaker 3 0:44

I appreciate that , but I think Pastor David got that .

Speaker 2 0:47

I did say one . He's probably got the best , but I mean , bro , that's .

Speaker 3 0:50

I want to be him when I grow up .

Speaker 2 0:51

Yeah , well , it was pretty funny . In your sermon you actually said the long lost son of David , which I about fell on the floor that day . It wasn't in your manuscript , it was off the cuff and it caught me off guard and it was good . But , eli , you lead our college ministry and actually you were a part of our college ministry .

Speaker 2 1:10

I very much was , came up through , went to UNG which was awesome , a part of Concord began to serve , get discipled by our college minister and then came on staff with us and then we're a part of bringing our Dahlonega campus to Claremont . You've been very pivotal just in the college ministry , in every facet from being a part of it , and now you're a part of our sermon content team , our preaching team , which , dude , can I just say in front of everybody , you have been crushing it from the pulpit lately .

Speaker 2 1:39

I know you teach all of the time in college , small groups , events and stuff like that . But I just want to say just all of the time in college , small groups , events and stuff like that . But I just want to say just markedly you have been increasing in your skill and I think our people love it when you break open the Word of God , so it's really really cool . You're also in one of our theology discussion groups , plus being married and doing ministry , and so when do you sleep ? That's the question . Never , never .

Speaker 3 2:04

Because I also lead our MDP program as well for our interns .

Speaker 2 2:09

I can't wait to talk more about that that is an incredible program that just started . We're about to start year two in . August right In the fall . So , man , that's incredible 18 new students 18 . That's so many . That's a lot , that's a lot .

Speaker 3 2:24

We went from 10 to 18 , almost double .

Speaker 2 2:28

Yeah , and we've got second year students and so we'll get back to that in just a minute , because that is an incredible avenue to disciple up , train up the next generation of leaders that are in our church that God has given to us . And so today we're going to be talking about making disciples . All right , now , this is a concept that so many people are familiar with , just in , I mean , I guess , just the idea of it . Most people that have been in church have heard the Great Commission , but it's not something that's usually a part of everybody's life , right ? Unfortunately ? No , yeah , unfortunately no .

Speaker 2 3:03

And so we're going to be in the Great Commission today , which is Matthew 28 , 18 through 20 , which I've got here , unless you're just going to quote it , put you on the spot , not always .

Speaker 2 3:15

Well , I'm going to read it , I'll jump through different versions and it'll all run together . Yeah , all the different versions here . But it says and Jesus came and said to them all authority in heaven and on earth has been

Introducing Eli Sorrow

Speaker 2 3:25

given to me . Go , therefore , and make disciples of all nations , baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit , teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you and behold , I am with you always , to the end of the age . And I mean it's just a powerful words of Jesus , once the grave has been conquered and salvation is available , and he's standing there with his guys and he gives them this incredible marching orders . But for a long time in the church we've got it wrong because we said go like , and everybody thought I got to go , and if you got school or sports or church , you how is the going ?

Speaker 3 4:06

but the , the command that jesus gives is actually not go right yeah it's make disciples yeah and that , as you are going , is the the better translation .

Speaker 2 4:17

So , as you , live your life as you go about family and work and school and sports and music and theater and all the things that people do that as you're going , you're making disciples and there's a lot around that word disciples or the process of disciple making that we've kind of got to in this conversation , debunk some of the words that we're making synonymous with discipleship or making disciples . And so what are some of the things that you've seen as a college director , that working with tons of college students , young adults , that is maybe some misunderstandings of one , the command to make disciples and two , being a disciple . What's some of the things that kind of we get wrong at times .

Speaker 3 5:02

I think we conflate oftentimes the word discipleship with mentorship .

Speaker 2 5:09

Okay .

Speaker 3 5:09

And there are some similarities to it , but— there's crossover , there's crossover , but they're not holistically the same . Yeah , as well as the same thing , for discipleship is more just .

Speaker 3 5:18

I want someone to teach me one-on-one it's like a private tutoring lesson almost in how to be a believer , which can lead to discipleship , but again , not the full picture of what discipleship or making disciples actually looks like . Another thing that I feel like we often get wrong as the church is that we treat the command to make disciples as to I need to go and evangelize , and that is part of it , but it doesn't tell the whole story .

Speaker 2 5:46

We've actually talked about that before because it's kind of a sticking point for you . I know , especially with training college students , that when we think about making disciples , a lot of times that centers just on evangelism and it's more conversion oriented than it is relationship growing in depth , replicating your faith in a way that can be replicated to somebody else , the process , the relationship , the followership of Christ . So how did we get off course with it being ? Making disciples is getting converts ?

Speaker 3 6:21

Yeah , I don't know exactly when it became off course , but I just know that from my time like one in college ministry , but now leading college ministry people always just go oh , I'm making disciples , I'm making disciples . I had a really good conversation this week with this person . We talked for two hours about you know all things , jesus , and I gave him a gospel presentation and they didn't respond .

Speaker 2 6:43

And that's it Right .

Speaker 3 6:44

And like okay , well , you got to have some sort of follow-up to this . It's not just a once and done kind of thing . This is a relational aspect that making disciples calls us to do .

Speaker 2 6:53

Now let me be clear , though . Like the gospel presentation , the someone repenting of their sins and putting their faith in Jesus Christ being made new . In Christ , the old dead , the new gone , we're talking true regeneration , redemption , salvation . That is a part of discipleship . But many times we cut off there .

Speaker 2 7:17

We've got spiritual orphans everywhere . We've got people who have made a decision , walked an aisle , maybe truly gave their life to Christ , but then there's been no one to teach them how to be a disciple , which is really the root of discipleship , and so yeah , go ahead .

Speaker 3 7:35

And that was something for myself as well , when I was growing up being a believer in the church . Yeah , I never really felt the fact that I was being discipled or trained on how to be a believer . It was more just all right , you pray a prayer , great Congratulations , and that was it . And so every time we're talking about , hey , this is how you're supposed to live your life , okay , the question I would always ask was , yes , but how ? Like I agree with you , but how does that actually work ? What does it look like for me in my context ? What does it look like for me in my context ? What does it look like for , as I am going and living my life , how do I actually implement that into what I do ? And I feel like that's the part that we're missing a lot of . Is that we're saying , hey , yes , we're making disciples by evangelizing , and that's it . We're making converts , like you said , and not actually disciples .

Speaker 2 8:20

Well , you know , and so much of that is relational , right . I mean it is spending time with one another . It's doing that . So there's this

The Great Commission Explained

Speaker 2 8:30

idea out there that if you're going to be discipled , it is this intense life-on-life access . I mean you're grafted into the family every part of morning and night . It is just an immersion of that other person . But typically it's more doing life shoulder to shoulder together . It's taking aspects of the Christian life and replicating . There's this passage in I believe it's 2 Timothy 2 , where Paul tells him .

Speaker 2 9:03

He says hey , take what you've heard from me and I want you to teach it or entrust it to other men who will teach others also , or faithful men who will teach others also , and it really presents four generations Paul , timothy , faithful men and others also going . Our faith is to be passed on . It's not just to be dropped in somebody's mailbox , but it is to go . Hey , what you've learned , pass on . Discipleship has this idea .

Speaker 2 9:30

Generational aspect yeah , Generational aspect , multiplication , replication , and really a disciple I've heard this and maybe we're jumping ahead is that discipleship . Effective discipleship is discerned not in your disciples , but those that you've been pouring into , the ones that they pour into .

Speaker 2 9:48

That you're looking two generations down . Have I been effective at disciple making Is if the people that I'm pouring into are pouring into other folks . So how do we get started ? All right , Because this is a big thing . It is the command of Christ , it is the great commission , the imperative command make disciples . And then , of course , he unpacks things in there that they should be baptized in the name of the Father , Son , Holy Spirit taught the things of the Lord , understanding Jesus is with them , but very practically for Concord . How does somebody start ? Because I would imagine most people start feeling fear , insecurity , have questions , all of these things . So let's start with this . What are some of the insecurities and obstacles and reasons people don't enter into discipleship relationships ?

Speaker 3 10:39

I think one of the major ones , especially one that I've seen and sometimes I've used as a cop-out myself , is that , oh , I don't know the answer to all the questions . That's a very common one . I don't feel like the expert on whatever insert , whatever other idea or topic you want to talk about , and that's one of the main reasons that people don't do or don't disciple people is because they're like I don't know how to properly give them what they need .

Speaker 2 11:04

Yeah , they don't know how , but they don't know enough .

Speaker 3 11:07

And also that kind of stems from the lack of discipleship to them as well .

Speaker 2 11:11

Okay , it's interesting that you say that , because when I was a student pastor , we would do these meetings once a month with our adult leaders who were leading in our student ministry and we actually played this or that game . Have you ever played that game where it's like you know macaroni and cheese or mashed potatoes and you go to a side of the room . You know , are you a Georgia Bulldog ? Are you a Georgia Tech Yellow Jacket ? You know which it is you and which . I know you're a Georgia guy , right .

Speaker 3 11:37

Yeah , I grew up outside of Athens . It'd be sacrilegious if I wasn't .

Speaker 2 11:39

Okay , okay , but you do this , this or that . And so we would do this activity with our adult leaders and we would say things like are you this , are you that ? And then we would get into hey , when did you give your life to Christ , when did you put your faith in Him ? And we'd do like when I was a kid , when I was a teenager , when I was in college , when I was a young adult , and you would just see the room begin to split and then we would ask questions like this

Common Misconceptions About Discipleship

Speaker 2 12:04

how many of you have ever discipled someone ? And what was interesting is so many times people the majority would say I've never discipled anybody , or maybe it's half and half . And then we would say how many of you have been discipled ?

Speaker 2 12:20

And it was just like the majority of people that were trying to disciple someone had never been poured into , who had never been taught . And so you know , we're looking at some , not just some inadequacies that people feel , but really a breakdown sometimes in the church's mission to pour into people so we can start it rolling . So we're starting fresh . So does somebody need a seminary education , a position at a church , some reading , theology , apologetics background to disciple somebody ? Is that a requirement ?

Speaker 2 12:58

Absolutely not For someone in Concord to disciple someone .

Speaker 3 13:02

No , the cool thing about the command that Jesus gives to make disciples is who he's giving it to . He's giving it to the 12 , or , at this point , 11 disciples who had walked with him for the last three years . Most of them wouldn't know a book from Adam , like the fishermen , common lay people . Half of them probably couldn't even read . And Jesus is saying look , this is what you got to do , this is the command that I'm giving you to go and make disciples . And so , no , you do not have to be seminary educated . I'm not even finished with my seminary degree yet and it's still a calling on my life . It's a calling on all believers , all Christians , to continue to multiply the faith .

Speaker 2 13:40

So what you're saying to me , eli , is anyone listening right now or watching this ? Saying to me , eli , is anyone listening right now or watching this ?

Speaker 3 13:52

if you have a , true relationship with Jesus Christ , you are to be making disciples . Yeah , my missions professor actually this semester , he said the phrase that really kind of rattled me . He said there's two types of believers those that make disciples and those that are disobedient .

Speaker 2 14:05

And that's it of believers , those that make disciples and those that are disobedient . And that's it , dude , that hits like a hammer . Well , so what do we do with that ? People feel inadequate , but that's not a thing , because what breaks my heart sometimes as a pastor is I see incredible people in our church , people who love Jesus , who are pursuing righteousness and holiness and purity , and they're loving their family and they're doing everything . And yet when I talk to them and they're like I just don't feel ready and I'm going you have so much to offer . I would love to have had someone like you in my life early on . And so they're afraid , they don't feel like they're ready . What's one step that they could take to begin to be obedient and not disobedient to the command to make disciples ?

Speaker 3 14:51

I think , with everything , prayer is always a great first step .

Speaker 2 14:55

Of course , of course .

Speaker 3 14:57

But literally asking the Lord to open your heart to remind you that , hey , what he's given us is enough . What he's given us in our faith is enough .

Speaker 2 15:05

what he's given us is enough .

Speaker 3 15:06

What he's given us in our faith is enough . And then also for them to have their eyes be open to . Who has God put intentionally in their life that they can impact ? That it's someone who either has only been walking with Jesus for a little bit , has been walking for a while and maybe has never been decided before , and so they're still a spiritual infant . Whoever that is , that's someone intentionally in their life that they can impact , whether it be once a week , once a month , twice a month , whatever the timeline looks like , but praying that God would literally open their eyes to see , oh , that person is someone that I could that they could use something that I have , and this is serious prayer .

Speaker 2 15:40

This is not like the prayer before the meal where you're asking God to take your double pepperoni pizza and bless it to the nourishment of your body like real miracle stuff , but you're literally coming to the Lord and going .

Speaker 2 15:50

God , I want to be obedient to your word , I want to do what you're asking me to do . Would you give me an opportunity ? Would you give me courage ? I think the second thing that I see sometimes

Overcoming Fear and Inadequacy

Speaker 2 16:00

is understanding that it's not holistic , that it may start in a small step . So we say , hey , concord folks , would you pray and say God , give me courage and give me an opportunity ? The second , that we would take a step .

Speaker 2 16:13

I'll say this at my last church I was on staff as one of the pastors , but I wasn't the lead pastor , and our lead pastor preached this sermon and he just said there's so much around discipleship and everybody thinks it's this life-on-life commitment , choosing this person that's perfect for you and fits and stage of life . And he said that really doesn't exist in our culture right now . And he said find an area that you want to grow in spiritually , find the best person that you know that does that in your life , and then ask them for an hour a week and just ask them . And so I remember at that point in my life I was like man , I really want to step up my prayer life , like I pray , but man I want to pray , like I want to get after it . And there was this guy on our staff named Mike and he had been a senior pastor before , just I mean a couple of decades ahead of me , and this dude prays . I'm like this is the kind of guy that gets up at 3.30 every morning just to spend three hours with Jesus before he gets started , before everybody gets up . I mean just devoted prayer warrior . And I just remember going to him and I was like , hey , Pastor Mike , would you teach me how to pray ? And we started meeting in the chapel one hour a week and he walked me through what he did . And now we're like five years down the road . We live in different states but every Wednesday morning morning he's still teaching me how to pray , praying alongside him , and that relationship has changed .

Speaker 2 17:32

But it started with me taking a step , going hey , would you teach me ? But I think there's both sides of it . There's people who need to be discipled in our church , but there's also people who need to be church , but there's also people who need to be discipling . And so how do we discern which one we are , or if we're both ? Because I think what we've said is most people would go well , I need to be taught . So how do we get people taught , asking , hey , would you grow me in this area ? But not waiting for their discipleship to be complete , but to be a part of that , paul , timothy , faithful men , others also . How do we get them mentoring other people , discipling other people ? Yeah , I just messed up and made that synonymous word .

Speaker 2 18:14

I said mentoring instead of discipleship but how do we make that discipleship happen ?

Speaker 3 18:18

Yeah , I mean the best example is the Apostle Paul , because I mean he learned in the wilderness for three years after his conversion , conversion , and then went and submitted himself to Peter and the rest of the apostles and he's like , all right , tell me what I don't know . And then , as he's learning from them , he's like , all right , I'm going to go and tell these guys over here , like it's not that you're never going to be done being discipled until you so that's not a qualification .

Speaker 2 18:46

You have to be discipled and finished and perfect before you can start the process with somewhere else ? Not at all . We can be in the process All right . So there was this one time I was told this the only way that you can disciple someone is to disciple them one-on-one . Is that a true statement ?

Speaker 3 19:01

I don't believe so .

Speaker 2 19:04

I don't either .

Speaker 3 19:06

No , there's no reference in scripture where you can be like this is the exact way to do it . This is how you do it Because I mean Paul literally tells Timothy entrust two faithful men , not one faithful man , but multiple men .

Speaker 2 19:21

And so some of this . What I think is a step that we could do is , you know , sometimes it is scary to do that one-on-one . You've got another man leading a family and you're a couple of years ahead or behind with kids , or something like that of going . He's got older kids , I've got younger kids or whatever , and we're trying to match up our life . But sometimes being in a group helps a little bit , I know .

Speaker 2 19:41

For us we've actually got a Bible study that we do on Thursday morning , me and three staff members , and it was starting out us working through theology and making sure our foundation was solid and sure . But it's really turned into a discussion group and it's a group that I'm learning into and so , even though I set in to go , hey , I want to start with helping make sure our foundations are solid theologically . The discussion has begun to pour into me in ways that I can think and use in other ways as well . And so this discipleship relationship sometimes is not just up or down . It kind of works reciprocal , where when we're in that relationship , or we've got a group of guys , or for you , ladies , you got a group of ladies that you're doing . Sometimes that group discipleship really fosters and gives perspectives to grow , and then it's really inset accountability as well .

Speaker 3 20:31

I really liked the one thing that you said about you started to kind of learn from those guys as well . And I really liked the one thing that you said about you know you started to kind of learn from those guys as well .

Speaker 2 20:36

Those guys include you . You're in that group . I learned from you too .

Speaker 3 20:40

But the whole idea is , if you are to take on the role of a discipler , there needs to be a humility aspect to it , of saying you know like . Look , I don't know everything , I know a little bit . I probably know a little bit more than you do right now . However , I want to , as we talked about a couple months ago , adopt the position of a learner and hey , you probably have more things to teach me as well .

Speaker 2 21:01

I'm so encouraged that you remembered one of the points to one of my sermons , Like that was a big deal , Like just that does my heart good , because that was a big thing . Adopt the position of a learner , and so I think sometimes we go too far either way on that we go . Oh , I know nothing kind of that , oh woe , is me kind of deal . And then other times where you got people with their chins up in the air going .

Speaker 3 21:24

I can't be taught anything , and so really discipleship , and aspect of it is humility . Go ahead , go for it . I was going to say something that was snarky and I was on my whole day .

Speaker 2 21:35

Okay , well , let's hear it . I think those listening right now have really wanted to hear .

Speaker 3 21:39

No , I was just going to say that for myself . I know I've often battled with this false humility of trying to put myself down too far , to where it now becomes a pity party for me and it's not helpful . It's not humility at me and it's not helpful , it's not humility at all .

Speaker 3 21:55

And I think that's partly one of the issues that we're facing with people who are like , oh , I just don't know enough . You know a lot more than you think for , and like I understand that we're trying to adopt the position of humility , but you also have to recognize that the Lord has gifted you with different things . The Lord has gifted you with different things . The Lord's gifted you with things that are beneficial to the church . He didn't just gift you

Taking The First Steps

Speaker 3 22:14

the spiritual gifts for you to hold onto them and do nothing else with them .

Speaker 2 22:17

Yeah Well , and I just think you know one of the things that when you hear a podcast like this , you hear a conversation like this Eli , a lot of times we start rattling and going , hey , that's me , that's not me , but I really believe in Concord . One of the things that would break our church wide open , that would allow us to minister within our community , see people come to know Christ , would be the starting of discipleship groups and discipleship relationships where we really start passing along our faith , facing our fear with courage , and I believe that there's a lot of great men and women within our Concord community that have something to offer . So how do we move people from what we see as staff members of potential within our local church body to begin to live out the Great Commission , to live out discipling others ? What is it that when we look at them , we go all right . I want you to take this scary first step . What are we asking them to do with discipleship ?

Speaker 3 23:21

I mean , I think it all just starts with finding that person . There's bound to be someone in your life that you can disciple , and so it starts with identifying that person . And then the second part is don't be afraid to say , hey , can I disciple you ? Like I've been praying , the Lord has revealed to me that you are in my life for a purpose and a reason . Can you and I meet over whatever and be ?

Speaker 2 23:45

discipled . That's interesting because before we started recording , you were telling a story about some of your college students and you were just saying they were like Elon , nobody will disciple me . Nobody will disciple me . I can't find anybody to disciple me . And your question was what Did you ask ?

Speaker 3 24:01

Who'd you ask ? And they're always like , well , no one .

Speaker 3 24:05

And I'm like that's your first problem is that you haven't asked anybody Most people I've found out with anything , is that they'll do something if you ask I've found out with anything . Is that they'll do something if you ask Wow , like , the problem with a lot of this generation , especially the younger generation that's coming up , is that they're afraid to be a burden and they're afraid to ask Okay . And so I think it's going to take a little bit of an important step on some people who are going to be the disciplers to say , hey , you are in my life for a reason . I want to decide walk alongside you as we learn to follow Jesus together , and that's a real thing .

Speaker 2 24:41

I mean , people are saying I don't want to be a burden , and so they would miss an opportunity to pour it into because they feel like they would be an inconvenience to somebody . And then we got people sitting there going . I would gladly meet with a couple of young dads , or for a mom to go ahead and meet with some younger moms or college kids or something . There are people that would do that , but we're missing because they won't communicate and there's a fear there of rejection or being a burden or something like that .

Speaker 3 25:08

Yeah , because I guarantee you that if you were to ask someone , hey , would you be willing to disciple me ? If they cannot , if they physically are not able to do so , they will most likely have someone else to go . Yeah , I can't do that , but I know this person would definitely love to , and they have the ability to .

Speaker 2 25:23

I know I talked to one of our more senior adults and we had lunch over at his house the other day and I was telling him there's a lot of young men in our church , young dads , that could

Finding People To Disciple

Speaker 2 25:36

use a mentor . Your experience , you've got great grandkids and he was just saying can you give me a list of names , can you give me people ? And he goes . I and a couple of other men would love to take on some of these 30s and 40s men , as he's in his 70s going . I would love to pour into that . They just don't know each other .

Speaker 2 25:55

So our job as a church is maybe to help facilitate some of those opportunities to be discipled . And so today we've seen that the Great Commission is a command from Christ to make disciples . That is our calling as believers . That doesn't just exist in that time , but today , in this year , in this time , in this culture , we are to make disciples and that's really replicating our faith in other people . And we've got to take our fears , our insecurities and we have to lay them down in obedience to Christ and initiate some of these relationships , some groups , and if you need help finding it , that's what we're here for . We can help connect folks to some of these discipleship relationships . Well , eli man , thank you for giving time , thank you for your service and your ministry to the church and all that God's doing in you and our college students . I don't know about you , but this has been jet fuel for me . Hope you guys will join us next week as we continue these Concord Conversations .