Jet Fuel - Concord Conversations

Titus 2 And The Beauty Of A Church That Disciples

• Concord Baptist Church • Season 1 • Episode 9

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We explore Titus 2 as a blueprint for a church that lives what it believes, linking sound doctrine with intergenerational discipleship and everyday mission. We share practical ways to start mentoring, highlight how integrity adorns the gospel, and spotlight our kids ministry.

• why Titus 2 centers on sound doctrine lived out
• how belief and behavior align in healthy churches
• the need for intergenerational mentoring and modeling
• practical steps to ask for or offer discipleship
• avoiding age-siloed communities that block wisdom transfer
• adorning the gospel through integrity and credibility
• engaging people close to us but far from God
• staff spotlight with kids director Abby Epling
• reframing success as multi‑generation discipleship

If you are listening and you are a part of Concord and you are looking for somewhere to jump in, Abby would love to have you volunteer


Welcome Back And Why Titus

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to the Jeff Fuel Podcast, a series of Concord conversations. In each episode, our lead pastor and a guest will sit down and dive a little deeper into what we learned as a church that week. These are honest, practical conversations to fuel your faith and help you live it out with purpose and consistency. Or in other words, this is jet fuel for your soul.

SPEAKER_02

All right. Well, welcome back. We are jet fuel podcast, uh time where we're trying to put a little spiritual jet fuel in your tank so it doesn't stall out midweek. But man, it's been a minute.

SPEAKER_03

It has. I don't how I don't even remember how many months it's been since we did the last one.

SPEAKER_02

It had to have been since the summer, I think, is what I heard Bree tell us earlier.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, the spiritual disciplines one.

SPEAKER_02

But it's been wild. I mean, I've missed it. I've missed you. Oh, thanks. Sitting this far from me. But yeah, yeah, it's it's great. Uh but we're we're here today and we're gonna jump back in for you guys that are watching and listening. This is really our heart, is just to have some conversations about what we're talking about on Sunday. We get a short amount of time to really break apart and exegete scripture, but now we get to kind of flesh some things out really practically.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you talk about all the time how many, how much do you remember from what I you'll even ask our staff, like, okay, how many of you remember any of the points that I gave last week?

SPEAKER_02

I always leave so discouraged. I know.

SPEAKER_03

But this is, I mean, it is. It's a good way for us to kind of come back, revisit the things that you have taught, give the people, give our people just a reason to like, hey, let's dig back into that just a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

And so Yeah, and we're gonna do some uh new things this this year, and so really excited about some of the things we got planned and some of the Okay, so this week we are talking about Titus chapter two.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. Right? Okay, so uh, and I think what's and you kind of said this when we talked through Titus chapter one, but Titus chapter two, this book is not flashy. Like there are no miracles, there are no like big storylines. Like it is just Paul saying, Hey, this is what you need to do, do this, do not do this. These people are terrible. You need to fix it. Like that's a big like he just stands on business.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, he is just right to the point, which I do think for most people who's reading scripture, I do think we like the encouragement, we like the story. Yeah. Uh Aaron, we we love the the illustration, but sometimes it's just when you want to get to the issue. Yeah, you know, I made the joke uh recently about saying, you know, it's not just a compliment sandwich like, hey, I'm gonna butter you up, and then I'm gonna give you this little sliver of truth, and then you know, butter you up again. It's literally like, hey, this is what's gotta happen.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, he doesn't skip, he doesn't like there's barely any like fluff at the beginning. He's like, hey, I'm Paul. This is who I'm right into, this is what you need to do.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. That's right. So I love that. So just to catch some of you guys up, just as we've been studying through Titus, looking at the local church, because I think that's something in our culture that has got the biggest amount of confusion around basically the denomination

Church Structure And Cultural Parallels

SPEAKER_02

you came out of, the the upbringing you had, the the church hurt you've experienced, something like that. What does the church uh what is it? How should it be structured? How should it function? And I think a lot of times, especially in the American church, we have missed the mark. And this book gets after it. And so we spent time in Titus one and two, but where they're ministering, where where Paul has sent Titus to really help with these little house churches that have all across this island, um, really we see some of the first tiebacks to the book of Acts in Acts chapter two at Pentecost when uh Jesus has resurrected and now they're preaching and people are hearing it on their own language. Actually, the people from Crete are mentioned there. You see them again at the end of the book of Acts. And uh now we see the gospel spreading, churches going. It's just amazing.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and it's just it's interesting about who he's talking to because what because if you look back in chapter one of Titus, he calls Cretes lazy, gluttonous, evil beasts, liars, like not subtle at all about how he is describing them. But if you think about the context that he was in and then the context we are hearing very similar these instructions, very similar. Like the way he describes Cretans would be the way that I would describe most of the world that we live in, and sadly, a large part of the church as well. And so trying to figure out okay, well, if this is how we're supposed to operate, how do we change like this behavior? How do we change the way that we're practicing this?

SPEAKER_02

And so and I think it's interesting that you say that because um when we're talking very practically to those that are listening to Jet Fuel, that that we're talking about how do we align ourselves biblically. Yeah. And when we can see this parallel between the the early church in Crete and the you know, kind of established church in America right now, but the cultures are very that very similar, very corrosive, very corrupted, and they're pressing their way inside the church. And nowadays, when you look at a church, sometimes it looks just like the world. Oh, yeah. And Paul goes, listen, we can't let that happen. No. Like we have to be different. And you know, Concord, that's that's what I want for you guys that we are different. We're not the run-of-the-mill church, we're not just hosting services. We serve a miraculous, powerful God who wants to draw people to himself. And a lot of this book, and especially chapter two, is about teaching sound doctrine. Yeah. Um, you know, not just, you know, doctrine popcorn, just a little bit here and there, but like good, solid, holistic doctrine, and then how that plays out in relationships.

SPEAKER_03

And so well, and like doctrine, not just for the sake of hearing it, but like the doctrine that we are being taught, and not only in this book, but so many, in so many areas of scripture, it is meant to complete it's to meant to change who we are and change how we act and change how we respond to the world. And so it's more than just hearing. I think that's another thing that Paul's trying to get at with this letter is hey, I don't want you just to hear this is how you're supposed to act. I want you to actually act that way.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. Like, and so yeah. Well, what do you think is easier, Aaron? You think it's easier for churches to focus on what they believe or how they behave? I mean, I know that's kind of a loaded question, but it is something we have to deal with because um, it seems like uh either or for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I think it's the phrasing of the question is interesting because what's easier, I think, is not what we should actually do. Okay, what do you mean by that? And so what is easier for us to do is just to teach beliefs. Like this is how you should believe about this, this is what scripture says about this, this is what you how you should act with this.

Belief Versus Behavior In Real Life

SPEAKER_03

So it's easier just to teach those things. What gets more difficult is when we are pressing our people and like telling ourselves, okay, these beliefs that you're hearing and the things that you've been taught, they now have to change the way that you behave.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And so, I mean, we were having this conversation the other day. Like, how do we get, how do we take someone who's new to the faith or has barely been around church and we start walking them through these steps of like their journey? Well, the how we do that is they have to start, their behavior has to start changing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, pulling into alignment with what God says because you know, you can get very dangerously close to behavior modification or, you know, kind of the word I grew up with in the 90s, legalism, right? Like we're checking the box, we're doing right if we look the part, we act the part. But this is all about understanding who God is, yeah, how he's called us to live, how he's empowered us to live because of the redemption that's in us, the freedom that we have. And that has an outworking uh in our life. And so uh how what's been your experience, uh maybe here at Concord or even churches before this, uh, with seeing doctrine taught well but lived poorly? Is that something that you've run into?

SPEAKER_03

I think I thankfully I have been blessed by all churches that all the churches that I've grown up in and like leaders that I've sat under, and any like all that, I have sat under some very healthy, very doctrinally sound leaders and teachers. And so thankfully that has been my experience. However, where I got turned off by church, and like we will not go into my story, but I did not get saved till I was 21. There's a lot of life that happened before that. And so, but growing up in church and where kind of the turnoff happened and where I was like, that I don't I do not need this, um, was not from like leaders from stage or anything like that. Like nobody had a moral failing. Like I've never had to experience anything like that, thankfully. Yeah, um, but it was people who I was close to and that I respected that they it was just word service to them. Like it was like, yeah, you need to be in a group. Oh, what group are you in? Oh, I don't have time to do that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You need to be in one, but I don't actually I don't have time to do that. Or hey, like you really need you need to be serving. Like we're asked to serve. Like, oh, where do you serve? Oh, well, I like I work like 50 hours a week, so I don't actually have time, I don't have time to do that.

SPEAKER_02

But you definitely should.

SPEAKER_03

Like, okay, then why why are you te if you're not gonna do it, why are you teaching this?

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think that's the problem that people have, not just even within the church, but people have in culture. The people you sit with uh at your kids' ball games or the people you sit across the booth from in the in a restaurant or something is you know, you name the name of Christ and then you don't live like it at all. You know, you're the exception to every rule, which is what we see a lot of going, hey, that doesn't apply to me. Yeah. And going, but as Christians, we put ourselves under the authority of scripture, which is the very breath of God.

SPEAKER_03

And so Well, and I was having I was having a conversation with uh a good friend the other day, and we were just talking about church, and he's moved, they've moved to a new town, and so the whole like figuring out where to go and where to plug in. And so he they have been at this church for about a year, and like that he said the teaching's really good. Everything they say sounds really good. The people don't do it though. Like he hears a lot of really good, solid things, but he doesn't see it actually happening.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so that he's like, okay, then what like what are we doing? And so I don't, I don't ever want Concord to get to a point where we're like, hey, you need to do this, you need to go on this mission trip, you need to when if our leadership and our people are not actually doing it.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and that's one thing I do love about our church that I love about Concord is there are so many people that just are the real deal. Like they read the word of God, they do what the word of God says, and then they pass that on. Um, and they do it within their families, they do it within our ministries, and there's just so many people that even from our positions that we can see in the body that is Concord, and we're like, good grief. Like these people get it. They love it. Well, and they push me.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like, oh, dude, like they are. I have to keep up. They set the ball up. I gotta keep up. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. Well, you know, one of the things that that Paul talks about to Titus, this young pastor, uh, is you is I want you to teach

Intergenerational Discipleship In Titus 2

SPEAKER_02

in sound doctrine. But then he lays out these these relationships, right? Like, um, hey, there is this older man, younger man, older woman, younger woman. And and he starts talking about how these, you know, relationships should work inside of the church. And so um one of the things that I love about our church is we are really an intergenerational church. You know, there's a lot of churches that, hey, man, that's where all the families with teenagers go. Like they got the cool youth group, and that's where they've got a very singular, dynamic um, you know, or demographic. Or you go, hey, this is the established church, this is where people have been here for a long time, or hey, here's the rock and roll church. And we've got all these things that reach a real narrow demographic, but Concord, by God's grace, is really you can see almost every demographic from our next gen ministry, a thriving college ministry. I mean, these guys are amazing. I mean, how they lead in prayer and serving. And uh then you've got young families, established families, senior adults. And um, you know, Paul's assumption or his, you know, exhortation here is hey, there need to be relationships here where they're passing down faith that we don't exist in just age-graded uh areas and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and he's he's assuming that's happening. The way that he talks about it in this chapter, he's assuming that is what is happening. Like, there is no like, hey, maybe we should think about this. No, this is how it works.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, and if you're reading this and you you kind of put yourself in the demographic, which I struggled with this because it was like older men and younger men, like which one am I? Where do I fall? Where do I get to find out if I'm the older guy or the younger guy? For me, I was talking to somebody the other day. I said, you know, I used to get sore from, you know, like working out. You'd go and lift and do that. But now if I sleep wrong or something, like my shoulder hurts and all. I think I'm definitely in the older men category at that point. But, you know, some of the things that he sets is not just the relationship, but how that person lives. When I look at, you know, Titus 2, too, he talks about these older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in their faith and their love and their steadfastness, really going, hey, the older men in the church should live with dignity but vibrant faith. Yeah. Uh, not a faith that's been retired, not a faith that's been put on the shelf and got dusty, which can be a temptation sometimes for older guys, going, hey, I've put in my time. Yeah. You know, I've served, I've done that. Now is the time where I just kind of get to sit back.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, when you sit back, you get a little grumpy and a little critical instead of going, hey, there's a generation I can pass this stuff on to.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think it's important to like remembering that no matter what stage of life that you're in, if you land in the younger crowd or you land in the older crowd or anywhere in between, everyone is teaching something and is teaching someone. Like, whether you want to believe it or not, people are watching how you live your life. That's right. And not just staff members. Like, people in our church need to realize like there are people that are paying attention to the way you're living your life. And so nobody is sidelined. Like, older generation is not sidelined, younger people are not sidelined because they don't know as much. Like they're always you're always teaching something. And it's really easy to blame one generation or the other by who, like, well, you don't do this, and you don't know. Like, it's if everybody is not actively seeking that out, it's it's on everyone.

SPEAKER_02

Well, let's get practical for a second. So you've been doing uh ministry in the church for a while now, and you've done it at a couple of different places and done it well, Aaron, honestly. Thank you. Um, but how do people get to this place where it's not just, you know, we hear a lot in the church today about, hey, this is my personal walk with Christ? Um uh my son quoted one of our staff members the other day, and uh, he said this phrase that we've heard forever ago, hey, your relationship with Christ could be personal, uh, but it can't be private. You know, of going, hey, we have a responsibility to make our faith known, to share the gospel, but also to pass it along to other people. How does the person at Concord who's listening, who's who's trying to go a little deeper, who's trying to get a little jet fuel in that engine, like how do they start doing what Paul has outlined for Titus, going, you need to tell those older men to pour into those younger men. You need to tell those older ladies to pour into those younger ladies. Here's the character of their life. These are the things they should teach one another. How would somebody start that process here? Because the thing we always hear is, well, I don't know anybody, or nobody's asked me, and we're waiting for somebody.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, the easy the easy answer would be to jump into community group, but here's the problem. And

How To Start Mentoring Relationships

SPEAKER_03

Concord, like this, this also applies to Concord.

SPEAKER_02

I have no idea what you're about to say right now.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm a little bit a lot of times when we say small groups, community groups, Sunday school, whatever you want to call them, they end up landing in the only people in that group are in your same stage of life.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

If you look at Concord, that is true. That's pretty true across the board.

SPEAKER_02

Because you're if you're young with babies, you're looking for that, you're senior adults.

SPEAKER_03

It does make sense. Like if you want to live life along someone, you do need someone that also, okay, I'm not gonna be worried about that. I have to take my kids home. So you're you're also seeking community. Yeah. And so there is a an issue, not an issue, but like a lot of times that's where like community groups land. And so when I'm thinking about like intergenerational discipleship and how you start that, you just have to ask. I don't know how many times like that I have been in so many conversations with both like a college student and like a 50-year-old man that said, like, I really want to spend some time with like two guys and just kind of like teach them what I know, and like, oh, have you asked like anyone? No. Okay, that I mean, and I know that sounds like a cliche answer, but the guy, okay, so I walk, meet with a college student every week, we talk through discipleship, what's going on in his life, how he's doing with his girlfriend, like all this stuff. The only reason that that started is because I was like, hey, I have noticed something in you. I would like to meet with you once a week. Wow. And it took me a little bit to be able to have the confidence just to do that. Um, but that that's what I tell anyone that asks me. I'm like, well, you just need to ask. Like, have you made a connection with an older guy that you like really connect with and enjoy spending time with? Great. Ask him if he will mentor you.

SPEAKER_02

Right. But I think that's where people people get a little shy in the church because one, if if they don't have somebody they're naturally connected to, they they feel a little insecure going, well, maybe I don't have anything that anybody needs or to offer. And then we've and then they get self-conscious and pull back, and then the younger people are like, oh my gosh, they're too important, or they don't have time for me. And we've got all of these false excuses that are out there. I was on a, you know, I was talking to some of my guys the other day, and uh there was a guy going through a tough season in his life. And uh, you know, we talk about this all the time. A lot of times when guys fail specifically, one of the first questions I always ask them is, hey, do you have other men in your life? And usually it's a no. I'm talking 10 for 10, 100 for a hundred, a thousand for a thousand. Uh I can't think of many exceptions at all. It's no, I don't have anybody.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And what was crazy is I was uh sharing with these guys, you know, what this uh was going through. And two of them right there were like, I will meet with him, like just connect us. Like I'm here to help him pick up the pieces, to put things back together. I mean, it was that quick. And both of the guys that offered are some of the biggest servants, overcommitted church members. That we know. But their heart was here's a man whose life is shattered. Like, let me let me help. Yeah. And so I just think that we need to kind of debunk, Aaron, that idea that people don't want to pass on things, people don't know what to do or don't have time. And don't think you don't have anything to give. Right.

SPEAKER_03

Because you 100% do.

SPEAKER_02

But I'll I'll tell you this if if some of these young guys in the church can really see some of these older guys for what they're worth, they're men who love Jesus, they're devoted to the way they got worn out Bibles, and uh they have great relationships with. Their wife, with their kids, with their grandkids, with people in the church. I mean, these are guys that you just want to shoulder up next to and go, hey, teach me something. And that's literally what Paul is telling Titus. He's like, if you want this church to succeed, there's a couple of things you need to do. You need to get the right leadership. Yeah. And then we need to get the right relationships going within there. And all of this has to be undergirded with good sound doctrine.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I, and I always want to model that as well. Like, yeah, okay, I meet with this college student every week, but like, well, both of us. I mean, we both have guys that don't live here, that are not involved in the ministry that we do, but that are mentors for us that we are either calling or Zoom calling or like FaceTime or whatever.

SPEAKER_02

You just made us sound so old. We're Zoom calling folks. Well, I mean, I do zoom this kind of thing. I do, I do.

SPEAKER_03

Or Microsoft Teams, which is terrible. But anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Well, so when we we talk about this, you talk about community groups, those tend to kind of pigeonhole us into some age brackets, but finding these relationships, having some courage. We tell our kids all the time, you know, the majority of what you can control, because there's a lot of things you can't control in your life, is attitude and effort. Like, hey, man, how am I going to approach this? Am I going to give it some effort? I think we could maybe loosely take some of that into starting some of these relationships of going, hey, if I put myself in a humble attitude and I make some effort, we can get some good connections. And of course, we as staff can help pair groups of guys together. Um, and and also for the ladies as well. Um, you know, I know there's some uh ladies who would desperately need some counsel of some older women, some encouragement. They work so hard, they uh, you know, they have all of these things going on in their life and they struggle too. It's not just that guys' lives are falling apart. Some of our ladies are walking through tough stuff, and just to have other uh people there to give perspective, encouragement, leadership, that's a big deal. And so I love this first part of Titus too because he is so clear on how a Christian should live biblically and then how they should relate to the generations within the

Staff Spotlight: Kids Director Abby Epling

SPEAKER_02

local church. And so right now, what we're gonna do is we are gonna take a break because some of the feedback that we got uh in the past with this podcast is that you guys loved getting to know some of our team in different ways. And so each week that we do a podcast, we're gonna take a moment and we're gonna introduce you to some of our staff, let you get to know them, what they do, but also to let you know some of our ministry partners that we work with regularly so you can get a great connecting point from Concord to our staff and to our ministry partners so you can be more involved. So I hope you enjoy this part of our podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Hey guys, I am here with Abby Epling, our kids director. How are you, ma'am? I'm good.

SPEAKER_01

How about you, Aaron?

SPEAKER_03

You seem nervous. Are you nervous?

SPEAKER_01

I am, yes, I am nervous. I'm not a big thing with cameras or microphones. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03

There's only two on you and a microphone. Okay, okay, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Okay, so Abby, let me ask you just a few questions because the kind of the point of these segments throughout this semester is gonna be look, we just want our people to get to know our staff a little bit better. So let me ask, just first, real quick, how long have you been here on staff at Concord?

SPEAKER_01

So I have been on staff at Concord, I believe this past November was my third year, but I was actually at Concord when I was in college as a volunteer.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so you went to did you go to Truett?

SPEAKER_01

I did go to Truett. I started here uh my freshman year semester, that first semester freshman year. Okay. And I volunteered at Concord all four years. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so how what was your major in at Truitt?

SPEAKER_01

I was a business and marketing major.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so what did you think that you were gonna do with that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, originally I wanted to do graphic design, uh, come to Truitt, get my core classes out of the way, then transfer to UNG. But God blessed me with some best friends that I wanted to graduate with. I'm like, ooh, now I gotta figure out what to do. Okay. And someone said, Hey, you can do anything with a business major. And I love marketing, it's like party planning all the time, a bunch of details.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, and then throughout some other uh great opportunities, God showed me, hey, there are some things you're gonna learn with this. Okay, but what I'm ultimately planning you for is full-time ministry.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. So yeah, tell me as just briefly, how did it, how did full-time ministry come about? So you said you volunteered here during college. What happened? What was going on during the like after you graduated? Like what tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'm a pastor's kid, so ministry has always been in at the forefront of my mind. My dad served, you know, as pastor of a church. My mom was always serving somewhere. Okay. And so I I knew wherever I went to school, I needed to get plugged in. That was just gotta serve, that is part of being a follower of Christ.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I actually went full-time with Chick-fil-A after I graduated college because I thought God wants me to serve Jesus chicken for the rest of my days and play in the party of the Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

A summer of that, and it was not all I thought it would be. Okay. And one of my friends from college said, Abigail, you love serving with the kids on Sunday mornings. Why don't you just do that? Oh, you'll know what you're talking about. God told her she that is what she's talking about.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I submitted my resume to a uh to a church, and they took a chance on a very green, fresh out of college, never had a full-time ministry job before, but I I loved doing it, and God showed me so much in that first four years of being a director before coming here to Concord.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so you were a you were you a kids director before you came here?

SPEAKER_01

I was.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, what church were you at before you came?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I was at Crossroads of Jackson County over in Jefferson, Georgia.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, perfect. All right. So tell me what did you learn there that you were like, okay, these are some things, some like pivotal, like foundational things that you learned there that you're kind of bringing into like your position here at Concord.

SPEAKER_01

Well, over there, I was over birth through fifth grade. So I had everybody. Okay. I also it was a little church plant. So we got to actually build our kids' ministry from the ground up with uh, you know, putting things on walls and decorating everything and building a great team. But it was learning, kind of honing teaching skills, making connections with the kids, uh, knowing sometimes to have difficult conversations with volunteers of love the vibe. You might not be wanting to do this all the time. So let's find you a better spot to hang out in.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, okay. So good that's cool. I didn't, I didn't, I don't think I realized that you had served. I knew that you had served in kids' ministry. I don't think I had realized that you had served as a director before. Because I think you how long did you say you had been here?

SPEAKER_01

Uh three years is past November. So I'm entering my fourth year.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so not, I mean, you didn't come, I mean, too far after I came on staff, right?

SPEAKER_01

And so November of 22. Actually, almost four years to the day that I left Concord to go be that director.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, that's cool. Yeah, so not too far after me. And when I so when I came on staff, I was groups pastor, I was not on lead team or anything like that. And so we I kind of remember that process. I actually remember, I was telling someone the other day, I remember the first time I met you. You had very pink hair.

SPEAKER_01

I did.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Uh my wife talks all the time about how she wishes you would bring back the colored hair because she's like, well, people actually. Yeah. So that's like my first memory of you is oh, she has pink hair. Okay. All right. So tell me, let's go with some personal things about you. So, what I first of all, if anybody has ever seen you walking around, you almost always have what in your hand?

SPEAKER_01

Dr. Pepper. This is not coffee, this is water because I do not drink coffee. Dr. Pepper is my form of caffeine.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So you are obsessed with Dr. Pepper. What are some other things that you kind of enjoy, like in your personal time, your time away from work, that you just, hey, these are things that I just really enjoy experiencing or doing. What are some of those things for you?

SPEAKER_01

Well, over the past couple of years, I have I've always been a reader since I was a kid, but I've recently rediscovered my voracious love of reading. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

In that nice word.

SPEAKER_01

A voracious reader. I know all big words. Sometimes I don't always know how how to properly photosynthesize and use the words, but I use it. Another word, another word. I I love to read in just whatever form of book it takes, whether it be an audiobook in the car, an e-book wherever I am, a physical copy before bed. I just love reading stories. And it used to be things that would take me away, you know, kind of the escapism of reading, but now I'm actually really uh thriving in the Christian historical fantasy vibe, or uh just kind of things that still speak God's truth, but in a way more like kind of C.S. Lewis vibes where it's it's there.

SPEAKER_03

Like what are you reading right now?

SPEAKER_01

Uh right now I'm actually reading a Tessa Ashbar book called The Peasant King, that is kind of the early days of the Persian Empire and the early days of King Cyrus, who would come and set the captives of Jerusalem free, post-Daniel.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, all right, that's cool. Yeah. All right. Anything else? Reading Dr. Pepper. You're a huge Disney fan. I'm a huge Disney fan.

SPEAKER_01

I I love the nostalgia of Disney and what it reminds me of. And God can use your passions to connect with anything. So I've had some kids, we talk about Disney and you know, trips we've I've been on, but also just finding a way to always connect that back to the word.

SPEAKER_03

That's cool. Okay, so let me ask you this. Out of all the ministry stuff that you could do, I mean, because there's that when we think about it's a large scope, right? Ministry is a very large scope. Why kids ministry? Why does why do you think that is where you have landed?

SPEAKER_01

I have always gravitated to when I was a kid, I always gravitated to those who were older than me to make those connections. Yeah. But then I've always had a connection with kids in that I've always kind of been younger than my age. My Disney age a lot of the time growing up was 10. Like, you know, yeah. There's a time to be a grown-up, but there's also a time to enjoy the the things of uh of youth.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that gives me a unique perspective in relating to kids and being able to explain certain uh metaphors or context of things to really just connect those dots because the you know, third to fifth grade is statistically where most people make their decisions for Christ. And if I can help be a part of the journey of laying that foundation to have kids have those things click to have to impact their eternities, then it is the biggest honor that I could ever have in my life.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. So what is if you had to name obviously that would probably be your most favorite thing. What else would you say? Hey, this when I think kids ministry, this is what I enjoy the most about. I know like connecting with kids and connecting dots for them, but like what is what's something else that you said you would say, like this is this is my favorite thing about what I get to do?

SPEAKER_01

As stressful as it can be, I think some of the events that we have, like KidCon during the summer or our uh kindergarten through third grade or preteen events in the spring, mainly because it kind of brings back that marketing aspect, those detailed party planning things I love to do because they're one-offs. They're they're they're fun extra things that you can do that's out of the norm, but it still has an internal impact.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's cool. Man, I first of all, I just want to tell you, I am so thankful that you are on our staff. You bring so much energy, so much life into every single thing that we do. I have seen you, especially as I transitioned into a role where I became your supervisor and just kind of looking over multiple different ministry areas, I have just seen you just continue to grow so much in your role. And so I have that has been fun to watch. It has been fun for my kids to start moving into your ministry area, and so that's been awesome. And so, kind of my last thing for you before we kind of end this segment is if you could ask or say one thing to our church family, what would you say? And I know that's kind of a tough, I'm kind of putting you on the spot a little bit there, but if you could say or ask one thing to our people or from our people, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01

The next generation is right now. It's not there. Are those coming? Owen is in the group that is coming to elementary. He is soon gonna be part of that group to make a decision. We can pour into the babies, the babies are fun to rock, we can pour into the students as they are diving deeper into their faith. But where the bedrock of foundation needs to be laid is right now. And I thank every single person who is making eternal impacts right now in any next gen ministry. But we also have kids who need those connections, those trusted adults to show them how much Jesus loves them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's cool. Abby, thank you so, so, so, so much. If you are listening and you are a part of Concord and you are looking for somewhere to jump in, Abby would love to have you volunteer. It's so much fun because we have to have seen it. They have a blast. Um, Abby, thank you so much. We are we're happy that you're here. You're a joy on our staff, and we were happy to have you at the segment. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much.

What Healthy Discipleship Looks Like

SPEAKER_02

All right. So when we talk about discipleship that happens in the church, you know, I think sometimes people look at it and go, well, man, that's the best case scenario. But you've got some real life experience of guys who kind of grabbed you up when you came to Christ, you know, faith being really important to your parents and your grandparents. And but when you got saved, there were guys who really came next to you and poured into you kind of give us those Mount Rushmore type guys in your life.

SPEAKER_03

I two two specifically, they were both in college. Uh, one was the college pastor that I had at the church that I was going to. Sure. And then one was kind of the college pastor at the university. I went to a small Baptist university. Sure. And so they had like we had chapel and all that. And so there was a guy that was kind of the college pastor there. Um, and so the college pastor I had when I was in college, his name's Gus Hernandez. He's in uh Miami now, working with the church planner, um, has done stuff with Nam. But when I was in college, he was my college pastor. And I just remember him being very intentional with allowing us, meaning like there was a small group of us that were kind of like on a leadership team. Sure. Um, that he him and his wife just kind of allowed us to watch them live life. Right. Um, like just see how they interacted with each other and what marriage looked like and what ministry looked like for him and what it meant for his wife to be married to someone who was in ministry. Like just we just got to watch this. And but it also wasn't just us watching, he was very intentional with his words and the way that he would explain things to us, and the way that he would be very honest about things, and he is one that sticks out, and then the other one, uh, his name is John Richardson. He was the college pastor at the university that I was at. He's now a pastor in Virginia. He John is an interesting character because he and this plays out a lot of when I think about this, this plays out a lot of times in the way that I interact with people. Um John does not hold any punches with anyone. Um, he will tell you very straightforward, you suck and you need to fix this. Wow. Um, and I it that helped me. That that is not how you should interact with everybody that you're mentoring, but it's in my life, that very much helped me. Um and he, him and his wife, uh, I was dating when I was like in college was when I started dating Liz. And so um we kind of just dated on their couch, um, for a lack of better way of putting it. Like they would let us, we would go over, we would hang out with them, um, we'd have like conversations about marriage and what that looked like and how being in ministry, all that stuff. And so just two men for me that literally just hey, watch my life, good and bad.

SPEAKER_02

And and I love how you kind of pulled that apart because there's a statement I heard all growing up, which was, hey, so much more is going to be caught than taught. But I'll honestly feel like what you kind of shared there was, man, they did give you time to be taught by them, giving you very clear boundaries and ways to do things, but you also got to be just in proximity to their life. And so you got to kind of catch how he would interact with his wife or his kids or how he would prepare for hard conversations or for a Bible study. And so I love that, you know, discipleship. We've tried to make it so formulaic. And we've tried to say, well, we got to meet and we got to do this, and we got to do this. And so much of it is that portion of life that's caught and that portion of life that's taught. Yeah. And those really come together. And that that seems like a really good model for discipleship. And uh I love that. So, you know, there is a portion in Titus 2 that talks about, you know, the way we live and the way we interact really has a testimony to it. Um, you know, that that you live in such a way, verse 8 says, uh, so that an opponent um may be put to shame uh and have nothing evil to say about us, almost taking away the ammunition for the attack. What are some ways that we can um communicate to the watching world that that we love Jesus and that we're doing what he's called us to? What it talks about adorning, um, you know, making beautiful those things.

SPEAKER_03

What what does that mean for you? Well, I think we have to realize that we nothing that we can do adds to the gospel. Like the gospel, the gospel message in and of itself, that is enough. Yes. Like we don't have to add anything, we don't have to take anything away.

SPEAKER_02

But the way we live, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so when it's talking about so

Adorning The Gospel With Our Lives

SPEAKER_03

when it's talking about here, like to adorn the gospel, like we need to adorn the doctrine of God our savior, the way it puts it in Titus 2. That is basically saying, hey, like we're either doing we're doing one of two things with the gospel. We are either highlighting it, like bringing it to the surface, making it beautiful, allowing people to see how incredible the gospel is, or we are hiding it and we don't want to talk about it. We don't want to match it. Yeah, because our lives don't match, would not match what we would say. And so there's no middle ground there. Like we're either we're doing one of the two. And so here it is saying, hey, adorn the doctrine of God our Savior, make this so beautiful to a world that there's nothing else that they think they need besides that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And when we walk with Jesus, that should be evident in our life. It should be something that we we see often. And so, well, let me let me talk about this. As you go further into 2 Timothy, you mean you look at something like verse 11, for the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. Uh, when we start thinking about this, the the grace of God uh appearing, uh, when we how that impacts people, bringing salvation, it should really be a part of who we are, that there's relationships that happen within the church, but ultimately, um, as we're equipped inside is for the work of the ministry that we're showing people the gospel. Uh we use a phrase around here that of course we've heard other places, it's not original here at all, but you know, those that are close to you but far from God. You know, the way we live, the way we walk with Jesus, some of this really needs to be translating into sharing how people can know Jesus as well. So Uh w how do we engage the people that are close to us but far from God?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think I mean one bottom line, your life needs to match what you're gonna say. Um I think one and I'm speaking for myself, like one reason that I have found that I don't talk too about the gospel with some people is because I'm terrified that they've seen me react in a way that was not godly, like that I my temper flared or I said something in a way that was hateful or angry, and they've like seen that and experienced that. And so that I think that's that's one thing that holds me back from um like for example, if I'm going to talk to a neighbor, like, oh gosh, I hope they didn't see me get so mad at that trash can that I was taking out of the end of my driveway that day that I just threw it across the yard. Like, and so that I'm not that those kind of things are like, oh, I can't like but that's so I think that's the bottom line. Like your words need to match what they say, but or your words need to match the way that you live. But I also think the way that we do that is we actually have to have relationships with lost people.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, come on. Because now you're talking.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and that's hard. Like speaking from someone who that's very difficult because I worked at a church, my whole life is here. Like I'm here all throughout the week. I'm here on Sundays. It I have to be very intentional about putting myself in places where there are lost people. And I'm I'm not saying like we go to like Yeah, places we shouldn't go. But we do need to be putting ourselves in places where there are lost people where we can have relationships with them. I like I hear you talk all the time about like you going to like athletic events for your kids and you meeting parents of kids that don't you know don't go to church anywhere and you forming relationships with them. And like I like when I when we lived in Knoxville, one of the ways like that I would intentionally put myself around lost people is we played disc golf a lot. And if you Which by the way, I still don't understand disc golf. It's like frisbee, it's like

Engaging Those Close But Far From God

SPEAKER_03

it's definitely not frisbee. But if you know anything, if you're listening and you know anything about the culture of disc golf, I don't it is a lot of very lost people. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and so I don't know that that would have been one of my first assumptions.

SPEAKER_03

And so, or at least where we were in Knoxville, that was kind of the culture. And so you going to play in tournaments and like just putting yourselves around like around those people, and then them watching you not act and say and interact with people the way that they are seeing everyone else act would automatically lead to conversations. And but that you have to be very intentional with that because it is very easy for us as believers to be a wallflower. Be around believers. Like, I don't know how many times you've said, I mean, you've challenged us multiple times in services of like, hey, who is the one person that you're gonna share the gospel with? And I don't know how many times I've had conversations with people in our church of like, I don't know anybody to find someone to do that with. And I mean, we it is intentionality of that.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I love this because Titus chapter two, just to kind of land the plane, if you will, um, is this, you know, Paul was telling this young guy, hey, listen, sound doctrine has to be priority. But within the local church, there has to be intergenerational relationships where we're passing on maturity and faith. That's the whole idea of disciple is to replicate your faith in someone else. And the success of that is really seen in the second and third and fourth generations, right? And he says, you've got all of these things, and we need to live in such a way that brings beauty, um, you know, that that people can see the beauty in us that we don't look like the world, we look very different. But understanding that that one of the outpourings of good discipleship that's happening within the church should be a phenomenal impacting ministry outside of the church. Yeah. That as believers, we're gathering to learn, to grow, to worship, to pray, to encourage, but to be equipped to take the hope of the gospel that is found only in Jesus Christ to a world that needs him, neighbors, friends, coworkers, classmates, teammates, anywhere you can look where there is hurt and going at the end of the day that I believe deeply, I'm obedient to the word of God, I am pouring into others, and hopefully that will pour out into the place that God has planted me.

SPEAKER_03

Well, because I think that's I mean, really, you could say, and this sounds really harsh, um, but if we are, if we really say, like, hey, we believe that the gospel changes people's lives, and then we're not telling anybody about it, do we actually believe that the gospel changes people's lives? Like, because if we aren't telling people about it, I would question whether you actually do believe it'll change people's lives. Because if you did believe that, you would tell everyone that you came and and I'm like, this is that's preaching to myself. Like, I'm not sitting on some high and mighty throne of saying, You need I'm like, I'm that's definitely something that I struggle with. Of I need to be much more intentional with I I mean, I come in contact with people all the time that need to hear Jesus. That's right. And I mean, my okay, my kids right now, like they are five, two, and six months old, or however old Lily is.

SPEAKER_02

Your house is busier than mine.

SPEAKER_03

Like, my their I mean, obviously they have not gotten to a point to where they have like walked in faith and found like Jesus is their Lord. Like, that's they haven't made that decision. But they've seen you and Liz's faith. And so I try to have be very intentional with those conversations the same way that I'm having intentional conversations with my daughter about faith and the gospel. And I those that should go outside of my home as well. And a lot of times that doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_02

So well, and he ends chapter two with this declare these things, exhort and rebuke with all authority, and let no one disregard you. He's like, declare these things, exhort those that are doing well for you guys out there listening, that are doing well. Man, I hope you feel encouraged that you hear this, you're like, man, we are discipling, we're doing it, we're sharing the gospel. Um, for those that are needing some correction, you haven't been living under the authority of Christ. Um, hey, with all authority, hey, we need to do these things. And so uh I'm hoping that this study in Titus, especially Titus chapter two, really reframes how we see the local church, its purpose, and then its outpouring into ministry. And so uh it's been a good time back, but uh excited. Man, we hope to see all of you guys again on our next episode of Jet Fuel.

Gathering To Grow, Scattering To Share

SPEAKER_00

Yep.