Stop Washing Hands And Start Cleaning Hearts

We talk through Mark 7 and the quiet danger of choosing outward religion over inward transformation, where traditions and rules can become a mask instead of a pathway to Jesus. We challenge ourselves to trade box checking for repentance, community, and the kind of heart change that actually reshapes daily life. 
•the difference between hygiene concerns and ceremonial law in Mark 7 
•how good intentions can turn into traditions that outrank Scripture 
•why legalism feels easier because it offers control and clear boxes 
•Isaiah’s warning about honoring God with lips only 
•the disconnect between church appearance and inward reality 
•modern examples of drifting from genuine obedience 
•how religious loopholes can replace God’s heart 
•ways to evaluate spiritual habits through fruit and accountability 
•why Jesus says defilement flows from within 
•practical questions to examine the heart and invite change 

Transcript

Disasters That Became Funny

0:00

Welcome to the Jeff Fuel Podcast, a series of Concord conversations. In each episode, our lead pastor and a guest will sit down and dive a little deeper into what we learned as a church that week. These are honest, practical conversations to fuel your faith and help you live it out with purpose and consistency. Or, in other words, this is Jet Fuel for your soul. All right. Well, welcome back to Jet Fuel Podcast, where we're fueling faith for everyday life. That's right. It's not just something that we hear, but it is something that transforms how we actually follow Jesus theology that affects our everyday life. I love it. So we got Miles Hansen here again, man. You are starting to become a regular on this thing. That's right. I can't make my previous joke. I can't make the McArib joke. Yeah, no, no. So you're here too regularly now. Well, hey, as you know, we typically start with a question. And so we've got one today. We went over a couple beforehand, uh, but this one I think takes the cake. So uh give it to us. All right. Was something that felt very disastrous in the moment, but now is kind of funny. Disastrous in the moment, but now it seems funny. Miles, you you look deep in thought here. I'll go first. I don't know if it's funny, but it was like childhood trauma we're about to deal with. It was actually in the last year. Uh oh, in the last year. Yeah, it wasn't funny, but it was like rewarding at the end. So I don't know if that's an acceptable answer. I guess we'll take it. I guess we'll take it. Okay. So I went to the England mission trip last year. Yes. And we flew out 4th of July. So that was really cool. Like getting to take off and seeing all the fireworks down below. I was told, try this sleeping pattern, don't sleep on the plane or sleep on the way there. I messed it up. I went there, like I tried sleeping, but I think I only got like two hours of sleep. Oh no. We left in the evening and then we got landed in Manchester at like 8 a.m. So we had a full day of ministry. Okay. Basically going 48 hours like in an entire country through the house. Sounds like some Navy SEALs training going right now. Sleep deprivation. It was it was rough. Disastrous. Yeah, it felt disastrous in the moment. Like I was like, this is gonna be a terrible trip. I'm gonna hate every minute of this. I can't get adjusted to the sleep pattern. After three days, I was just being dramatic. I gotta I got adjusted. And so it was great. We had amazing time doing ministry, gospel conversations. It was awesome. Man, that took a really like spiritual and serious, awesome tone. Mine is much less cool than that. So what seemed disastrous in the moment, so uh there was a time when uh growing up that funds got a little tight around the old Ivy household back in the uh early 90s, and one of the ways that we were gonna save money, Miles, is instead of going to the barbershop, uh, you know, the blue and red, white pole, you know, we went to like barbershop, barber shop, you know, like eight bucks for a haircut. We were gonna save money, and mom was gonna learn to cut our hair. Uh, but this is during the time uh where, you know, there's some pretty iconic haircuts going on. And uh this was the time of the chili bowl. And so, you know, where you cut it and then you shave underneath it and stuff. And so mom's first attempt at that uh was disastrous. And uh so uh nothing like getting smoked in middle school by all your friends because of a really, really bad haircut. But I look back now because I now have a middle schooler, and I look at his hair sometimes, and I'm thinking, what are we doing here? Uh but you know, you got to keep up with the fashion trend, stuff like that. I'm just salty now because I don't have any hair, and Thaddeus has really, really good hair, so he can do whatever he wants. But do you have a picture of that bowl cut as you had? Um, plead the fifth on that. Um But yeah, it was it was bad. That chili bowl was bad news. I don't even know how that I mean if you think about hairstyles, like what in the world? If you look back, I I talked to I was um playing golf with a guy the other day, and he was talking about he used to have this poofy hair and stuff, and now I'm just I wear a cap most of the time, so you can't see how little hair that I do have now. But uh that was a good question, Bree. Disastrous as a child as a middle schooler, and I look back now and it's hilarious. And I wonder if my son will look back when he's an adult and being like, man, short on the sides, long in the back and top. Man, was that was that the thing? So apparently it's very cool now. Well, hey, thank you guys for joining us again today. I I really do appreciate all you guys that have stuck with us through Jet Fuel. It was something new that we tried last year. It was uh an idea we had. We wanted to take what we were doing on Sundays and and really capitalize, go a little deeper, bring different people in, expose you to our ministry partners, our staff members, different people the way they study. And so for you guys that have spent time in the car and spent time uh at the coffee table or the Peloton bike or wherever you are when you listen to this, we really appreciate it and we hope it's beneficial uh for you guys because I know we're gonna be wrapping uh down this season, taking some time off for the summer. Um, but thank you guys for sticking with us. Today

Why Mark 7 Still Hits Today

5:20

we're gonna jump back into Mark chapter seven. We're gonna look at the first 20 or so verses um and really get into something, Miles, that I think is not just applicable back then, but I mean, is still, still, still a major, major issue for the church uh today, and that is um holding to religion over transformation. You know, I mean, I don't know that it's the accurate term, you know, the religion versus relationship. I think that's kind of a thin set version of it, but um, rules versus being transformed into someone who isn't dwelt by the Spirit and walks with Jesus. Yeah, you're gonna get into this, and we'll see in this passage and my time studying it and getting ready for this. There was a couple of moments where I was like, ooh, that doesn't feel like stings a little bit. If that was said to me by Jesus, that would uh I would be a little upset, you know? And so what we're gonna see here is Jesus is flipping the script of what was uh written, the man-made rules, maybe out of good intention, ended up overriding uh the true purpose of what scripture was written for. Yeah. And so really this is gonna be a conversation about us taking on uh maybe, and I know this is a tough word, especially for you guys that were raised in conservative churches, but legalism, uh, where we hold to the letter of the law over the spirit of the law. Now, there's two ways this conversation goes. Man, there's people that are like, man, stick it to them. It's all about just your intentions and your heart, and just do what you feel. No, that is not it. And then the other side is wrong too, what we're looking at. Um, but it is striking the chord in surrender, submission, and obedience to Jesus and and not straying to the right or to the left of, hey, let's do it, make it all about the rules, let's raise it, let's add, let's add, let's add, let's add, because there's definitely opponents to that. And then the other side of, hey, let's do the heart, let's just get a feel for it, just you know, uh, and you get soft over there. So this is about surrender to Jesus, and he's literally gonna take on uh this when his disciples get called out. Yeah. I mean, he is a shepherd and comes right at him. So I think this conversation is gonna be relevant to you guys listening today. I know for Miles and I, it hits really, really close to home. Absolutely. I mean, we open up, and this is something I walked through with students just recently, you know, as I'm having this student takeover series, these students are cooking, these students are teaching, these students are leading worship. Which I'm really excited about. Thank you for letting them be the church of today, not the church of tomorrow. We hear that about next gen all the time, and this is just a quick commercial break. Um, we have to let the next generation lead now. Um we can't say, hey, when you get done with college, when you're adult, when you've got your own kids, then you can do this. And so I appreciate you teaching them how to study and to teach and lead because we want to raise up good churchmen, people that when they go to college and young adults, they know how to teach so they can lead small groups. You know, they know how to lead worship so they can be a part of the worship band. They know how to cook and serve, and so big events come around. So thank you just for our student ministry giving uh students a chance to lead on a couple of different levels. But really cool to see. You said you're walking through this with them.

Handwashing Tradition Versus Hygiene

8:37

Yeah, so I had uh assign a couple of these students to cook, and so we get in the cafe and we're starting to cut up uh, you know, meats, vegetables, fruits, because we had kebabs last night. I bet there was a lot of vegetables and fruits left over. There was, there was. There definitely was. That was the only thing that wasn't touched. But they get in there and they're like, all right, ready to go, ready to start cutting this up. And they like start to grab the knife and the cutting board, and I'm like, you gotta wash your hands first. Like, I don't girl. I don't know if you're outside, you're playing playing with a football that everybody's touched. You're preparing food, you know, it's time to wash your hands. But that's where we jump in here is Jesus. Uh, he sees that uh his disciples are being called out by the Pharisees, uh, that they're not ceremonially washing, they're not cleansing themselves before a meal. And just to use your illustration that you said, this wasn't about hygiene for them. The call out from the Pharisees to the disciples that were following Jesus was about the ceremonial law, not like, oh man, you guys got dirty hands. It was like you're eating, but you haven't followed the proper process that we've set forth. And so that's where the rub really begins is the ceremonial tradition. It definitely wasn't about cleanliness, it was the religious custom or the law that had been passed down, the interpretation of that. Now, let me let me ask you a question. Um, maybe not ask you a question, but but give you a little bit of a scenario. So when we think about the Old Testament, um you know, just in a very shallow sense, a lot of people think of it as just the law. Now, there is the books of the law, the first five, the Torah, the Pentateuch, you know, in that we get the Ten Commandments, which most people know. Well, I don't want to assume that, you know, if we were to say, hey, how many of the Ten Commandments do you know? That might be a challenge for some. Um, but in the Old Testament, there's somewhere around there, I mean, there's not universal agreement on this, but somewhere around 613 Old Testament commandments. And so it was something that, you know, the Lord was very clear on this is how you do this, this is how you do this, there's a right way to do this. Um But what we see, I mean, just in verse five, it says the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but they eat bread with impure hands. So we've got to assume that there is either kind of uh taking this law and twisting it, or there's an adding to what was done here. And so that's where Jesus is really gonna get into that is is this how whole idea of there were these um law, there was the law given by God. You got the Ten Commandments, you got the Old Testament laws that you find in the first five books of the Bible, 600 or so. But then on top of that, we're getting the traditions of the elders, which is another layer of how to do this. Well, and I want to add a little bit of that because you would what you're referencing to is the Talmud, the Mishnah. These are rabbis who have had interpretation of the law. For instance, you know, when God says keep the Sabbath holy, and that's it. There's no explanation of that. If they've kind of been able to, how do you keep the holy? What does that mean for work? What does that mean for cleansing? And so I see a little bit of the intent behind this, is there is a heart of we want to hold scripture to a high authority. But then in that interpretation, as they added not necessarily onto scripture, but interpretation to keep that holy, that's when it begins to place. Correct me if I'm wrong, like with the Sabbath, I know that was one thing, like you couldn't drag you had to drag a chair because you couldn't pick it up. Yes. You know, you could only go so many steps. Correct. And I think Jesus took that on with, you know, like if one of your mules fell in a hole or something like that, you know, could you get him out on the Sabbath and Jesus healing on the Sabbath? Those were uh different things. I'm noticing your drink here right now. Um for you guys that aren't watching, he's drinking some kind of green concoction that just caught my own. A matcha, you know. A matcha. Trying to switch things up a little bit. And so that sounds and looks terrible, by the way. It's it's an acquired taste. It's an acquired taste. All right, I like it. But all right. But but Jesus comes back and he confronts this. So let me ask you a question, Miles. Uh,

Why Control Feels Safer Than Change

12:41

and because I think um just from your journey, knowing your testimony and how you minister our students right now, you'll have a unique perspective on this. But why do you think um people um drift towards outward religion instead of inward transformation? Um for me, kind of what I've seen growing up uh of my context in the church, but then also what I see now is religion is control. Of like when you start putting these additional interpretations, these additional things, you begin to sort of set the control and the direction of that. Uh, but you then compare that to transformation, you know, it's a submission to the unknown of you are submitting to Christ of, all right, you're leading the direction of my life from here on out. And so if you start putting all these, you know, this is what I want for a service type, or I want this church to look like this, you're beginning to almost morph it in what is my personal preference. Whereas a total submission to Christ is submitting to the unknown of I don't know what's ahead. And so it's a lot more comfortable to trust in something that I can control rather than submitting to something of I have no idea what the future holds for. Right. Yeah, you've got something in black and white and something else that's gonna take some faith uh to that. That's a big deal. Well, how how how do we allow traditions to become more important than the heart behind them? Well, and I think it comes what I said earlier a little bit about the the mission of the Talmud. There was an intent of doing something good. They intended to add on uh this interpretation to point others to keep the Sabbath holy. But as we see that this becomes uh kind of a routine, it gradually becomes the standard. And maybe at times that standard gets held to a higher standard than scripture. And so what may have started with a good heart eventually becomes something that replaces God's heart altogether. Yeah, I I do think you're on to something there. And I wonder if you guys listening or watching feel that as well, where you're going, it is just easier to do the things we know, even if the rules are strict, because it's just it's there, you can check it off a box, rather than the heart behind them, because that takes a lot more depth, a lot more work, a lot more relationship to understand, to discern, to walk through that stuff. Legalism is easier. A list of rules is easier. Um, and so I think that's a a natural drift for people of if I know what the rules are, the boundaries are, what rules are important, what rules I can bend, how close to the line I can get. Uh it puts everything in a human, you know, focused uh, you know, way of living rather than the heart behind it of the kindness, the generosity, you know, everything becomes, you know, situational and it's about surrender to Christ in the moment. Um it it takes we like easy. We do. We we like convenient, we like things that work in our favor. You know, I I uh I heard somebody, and I don't want to get too far off, but you know, um we typically pursue anything that will cause the least amount of suffering, the least amount of inconvenience, you know, things that turn up us. Well that becomes a very me-centric gospel, a very me-centric um, you know, way of living. And so legalism fits me perfectly. It does. Yeah. You know, uh, so that's a a big deal.

Honoring God With Lips Only

16:10

Well, and what we see moving on is after you know his disciples have been called out for not ceremonially cleansing their hands according to the tradition of the elders, Jesus then references back to something in Isaiah, a prophecy that's made, and this is where it makes my skin crawl. Of this was said to me, he says, This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Oh, Isaiah 29, 13, man. Oh, man. They honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from it. I mean, that stings because it's something we all have probably fallen guilty to before. Something there's pride in what they've built up, and then all of a sudden it is like, all right, where did all this go? Yeah. Well, and just a quick note here, as you study scripture, as you read through it, I think it's important, Miles, and I think you probably do this as well. Whenever in the New Testament, the Old Testament is quoted, go back, look it up, find the context, do it. And what I love is so often, not just with Jesus, but with other writers, they're constantly referencing the Old Testament. And it's not like us where you can ask, you know, Siri to find something uh easily. I mean, they had to know it, they had to memorize it. For you guys who want to follow Jesus, it is so important to not only be familiar with both the Old Testament and the New Testament, but you need to memorize it. You need to begin putting the pieces together to solidify your faith. And Jesus goes, hey, listen, this people, they honor me. They say the right things, they come across uh eloquent, they they know what to say, what not to say. He says, but their heart, their heart, that inner man is far from me. And I gotta tell you, as a pastor, um this breaks my heart because I do see this quite often when I'm teaching and I can see it, and I know people that that say the right thing and maybe they live a different way. Their heart is cold towards the gospel, it's cold towards the Lord, it's cold towards the things of God, and they're doing their Christian walk for the appearances. Yeah. But more than breaking that, breaking my heart as a pastor, it breaks my heart as a Christian because I've been that same person. Yes. I have been the person who has said the right things, had the right appearance, the right look, been in the right place at the right time, and my heart has been cold. My heart been rebellious. And so I don't want you to feel like you're just like, oh man, well, he's just kind of uh getting after us uh today. Yeah, I am. But at the same time, I've been there. What's personal for both of us? Yeah, we both had similar stories of coming to faith right around the graduation of high school and a college. And you know, you see these people that look spiritually healthy, but they're spiritually distanced from God. But if I'm being honest, these are some of my personal favorite testimonies that we need to hear of they've built this uh this testimony, they look like they're doing everything right, they're religious people, but then they get wrecked by the gospel. Yeah. You know, it's one of my favorite testimonies to see. And so what we want to do here in the next couple of minutes is we just want to address that disconnect.

The Mask Problem In Church Culture

19:22

Yes. That disconnect between what people think of you because the image that you display. Oh, we're the happy family that sits at church together. How are you? Oh, we're so good. Lil Johnny's doing this, little Sally's doing this, oh man, bless the Lord, yada, yada, yada. But on the inside, everything's crumbling. You've been screaming at them in the car, you better act right, get your face right, we're gonna do this. And going, let's address the disconnect between the outward appearance and the inward reality. I think that's one of the main things that people have against the church right now is they're like, everybody wears a mask. Uh everybody's a hypocrite, which that's literally what the word means. It's to have, you know, different faces. You know, it means two-faced. Hey, uh, it's like the old uh Greek theater, you know, where they put that happy face on, they take it off, they put the sad face on. Um, there is a lot of hypocrisy in the church, but that's all of us. And so uh addressing the disconnect. And so this is about to get super uncomfortable. So if you're thinking about pausing, this is probably the place to do it and go, oh, I'm gonna come back to this because I don't want to let the Holy Spirit jump on me. Well, this is where it's gonna get uncomfortable, all right? Yeah. So let's break this down. A couple questions for you. Uh why is it easier to manage the outward behavior in our life than the surrender of the heart? So why is it easier to manage outward behavior than a surrender of the heart? Uh I think it comes down to cost and commitment. Okay. Okay. Outward, outward behavior is low cost. Like if somebody's watching me, I can I can pull it all together and I can put on the face, I can stand up tall, I can do the thing or that. If I was, you know, yelling at a referee at my kids' game, and then, you know, a church member's there and looks at you. I mean, you can you can address that outward behavior. That's a low cost, low commitment change uh in the morning uh or in that moment to give an impression of religion, to give an impression of holiness, to give an impression of integrity, low cost to switch in the moment. Easy to change that mask. Yes. It is a high cost to surrender your heart and deal with ugly, to go. There's a root here. If I'm yelling at this referee, there's some kind of insecurity, some kind of validation, some kind of anger, some kind of something that I don't want to deal with and submit and surrender instead of being someone who looks right to be somebody who is right. I mean, and I think we're conditioned to do this, all right? Social media. We're conditioned to give the appearance, right? Yes. We want to get the right angle. We want to get the right filter. We want to have the right background. And if none of that works, we'll just AI generate it. And it is one of those things where you present to the world something that's not a reality. And I think we have been so conditioned to give an appearance. It's our default. It costs little, it's easy to manage, and it's pleasing to everybody else. You start getting to the heart of something. Listen to me, folks. You start getting, I'm about to start preaching on this podcast. I mean, you start getting to the inside of it, Miles, you've got to deal with the ugly, with the heart, with the sin that has to be ripped out ferociously and brutally by the root. And then you have to go back. You have to apologize. You got to repent. You got to make new boundaries and barriers in your life, set new expectations. You've got to feed that side of you. And I just got to tell you, when you address rebellion and ugly, you get that heart surrendered and submitted to the Lordship of Jesus. Bro, we're talking something that's a lot more difficult and a longer of a process. So that's that's the cost we're talking about. Just kind of summarize all that was, you know, the easiness of it is to easily put a different mask on, or, you know, at a field, you know, somebody said you say something to the referee and you change that. And then the full submission, the full surrender is it's the repentance. It is uh extracting that rebellious heart. Submission, surrender. Yeah, that kind of deal. All right. So

Modern Legalism And Religious Loopholes

23:41

this one uh be interesting to hear from your perspective as lead pastor of Calling Ford. What are some modern ways or some examples? And maybe not, you know, maybe in the last year, but as your entire career in ministry, uh ways that people have honored God with their lips, um, but have drifted internally from the standard of Scripture. Yeah. Um, man, that is such a big question with so many broad strokes and implications. Let me just try to jump in on one thing. And this won't be a holistic answer because I I I think you could teach a semester's, you know, uh orthopraxy class on this. But I would think one way that you go, hey, people honor God with their lips while drifting internally. I I would say, and gosh, this is gonna get me in trouble. I think you see it in commitment to the bride of Christ to the local church. Okay. I think that's one thing where people go, man, I love the Lord. I prioritize the Lord in my life. I love what the Lord loves. Jesus loves the church so much that he gave his life from it. That's what we tell our kids all the time. We want you to love Jesus and we want you to love what he loves. And one of the things that he loves is the church. Um and I think uh, you know, a lot of times we can see people say, Hey, I I love the gifts that he's given me, I love the blessing that I'm under, and they love all the things about God. But then when it comes to practically acting on those things, finding themselves in authentic, vulnerable, accountable community. In cultural space. Yeah, when it comes to sacrifice, when it comes to um, you know, uh being a part, using your gifts and serving, I think sometimes it's easier to show up than it is to own and invest in some of those things. And and listen, uh before everybody gets offended here, look, and nobody's trying to call, you know, you specifically out, oh, I'm thinking of this family and they've missed the last three weeks because of, you know, vacation or grandma's 80th birthday or travel ball or something. Like if that's a conviction between you and the Lord, like you y'all deal with that. I'm just saying one of the things that I see is, you know, sometimes we can say one thing, and then when our lives don't match up, I think that's where one of the disconnects can be. And it is easy to try to present or convince somebody of your affection or devotion to Christ or to his church or to um living in a way that's countercultural and a very um hard leaning away from God's law, culture, and country right now. Um it's easy to say one thing and honor God with your lips and then, you know, the proof's in the pudding. I mean, just very practically for me, if I take the whole spiritual thing out of it, you know, trying to get healthy this year, trying to lose some weight, trying to, you know, eat differently, you know, it's one thing to say it, it's one thing to accomplish it a little bit, and then it's another thing to change your life so that that habit remains, that it's not like, hey, Pastor Clint's on a, you know, yo-yo, he's heavy this month, he's not that month. You know, uh this takes so many forms, but I think it's a deep internal conviction and commitment when we're talking spiritually to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. You gotta understand if it's something that you follow Christ, it's gonna cost a commitment. There's a there's a cost to it. Now, there's this this part where Jesus gives an example called Corbin where um it's almost like the Pharisees are using religious loopholes um to avoid, uh specifically in this case, caring for their parents. Um and so it's it's a presumed high road that actually negates the heart of what was trying to happen. Yeah, you see that their tradition that they had established uh actually becomes a way to avoid the obedience of God's holy law and his commandments, you know, which is like which is scary and dangerous, right, Miles? Because it's it's like religion. All right. And when I when I speak of religion, I'm not talking about true and good religion, like, you know, maybe even James talks about of caring for widows and orphans. You know, that's that's true religion. I'm I'm I'm talking about like false, hollow, shallow paperman religion. Um sometimes it helps people feel righteous without actually being righteous. It does, yeah. And that's it's interesting too, because Jesus isn't against tradition. Tradition can be very good. Yes, absolutely. Can you say that again just so people hear it? Because we've gone pretty hard in this podcast. Yes, tradition can be good. Yes. You know, you go through things of like the tradition of uh, which is a sacrament that we do, but you know, you have the Lord's Supper and baptism. It's something that may look like a tradition, but it has a deeper meaning that points us back uh to what Christ has come from. And not all traditions are bad. I mean, even think about some of your family traditions. There's things that we do, and and very exciting. You're gonna be getting married here in a couple of weeks, and and y'all are gonna have a chance, you and Caitlin, to be able to set some of your own family traditions, things that we do. And so sometimes the word tradition gets a bad rap, but in this context specifically, it's like a straw man that they're they're placing their faith in rather than what the Lord's heart was. Yeah, he's not against tradition itself, but he is against anything which we've been going through that book with A.W. Tozer, anything that usurps his throne. You know, we hit that chapter and it wrecked me of just, you know, when we want our preference, we take the throne from God. And what do we find is that their tradition, they were taking the throne of God. Yeah. You know, he's not against the tradition, he's against anything. Go ahead. And that Tozer book is is rough, man. I mean, it is. I've had to look up a couple of words that he's written with. I should read more, right? Um, but when human systems, Miles, become more important than God's heart, I mean, something is off. There is something very well. Let me ask you a couple of questions before we take our ministry highlight break. Why do religious systems sometimes become substitutes for genuine obedience? Aaron Powell I'm gonna be very honest. There's a lot of times it's easier. Okay. And that's that's something we keep coming back to. Yeah, yeah. The the ease of it, of you know, the surrender of Christ has that cost. There's intentionality, there's time put into it, there is a huge commitment to that. It sometimes, you know, abiding in this religion, this hollowness you're talking about is easier. You know, I think for example, for me, as I'm driving around doing campus ministry at North Hall, White County, doing FCA talks, you know, as I'm not a morning person. I'm I'm just not. And but I'm as I'm waking up, I am morning. We're very opposite in that. Uh, but I very quickly have this inclination that I have to fight all the time of, you know, what I'll just put on worship music in the car. That's easier for me to just turn that on rather than wake up 30 minutes, wake up an hour earlier, and actually spend that time in the Word. Dude, I appreciate that vulnerability. I think that's so awesome to go. I think many times people look at leaders within the church, lay leaders, you know, people who hold a measure of responsibility, staff, pastors, and they assume that we're at a place in our life where there's no longer a temptation to take the easy road. And can I just tell you it's not. Uh, you know, we are called to different vocations, different jobs, different roles within the church, but the temptation the same is to take ease, comfort, um, and the road of least resistance at times. So I appreciate you sharing that. Let me ask you another question.

Box Checking Versus Real Fruit

31:30

So, how would you ask the people that are listening or watching right now to evaluate whether a spiritual habit is helping them to know God deeper or if it's just checking a box? How does someone look at their life? They're maybe feeling some conviction, they're walking through this, they're like, man, I I hear what Miles and Clint are saying, I'm in the same boat. They are, I'm the same. You know, I find myself in this passage here. How does someone evaluate what they're doing is either checking a box or it is growing their surrender and submission and commitment and obedience to Christ? It's there's a lot that's loaded up into that question. And I would say it it kind of my answer is going to evolve just a little bit for a second. But first part is you know, John writes, or John is confronting um the Pharisees in the Gospel of Matthew, where he's like talking about that they want to come and be baptized and they've got to be. Okay, John the Baptist. I was like, you're going to the gospel writer, John I was like, John the Baptist. I thought we were in Mark. In the Gospel of Matthew, it is a separate statement, but he says, bear fruit in keeping with your repentance. You know, if you've come to faith in repentance, there needs to be fruit of salvation, of that. You know, we can ask yourself, am I producing fruits of the spirit that is consistent with scripture? You know, outline or like uh by comparing yourself and lining yourself up. Does my life look like the fruits of the spirit right now? And so that's internally. But I think second, you also need community around you for that. You know, I told our students this last night if our natural inclination as a human being is a sinful nature and a sinful tendency, why would we ever think that we can measure up to a standard or we can continue to uh improve our faith by ourselves? We need godly people around us to make sure that we're not just, you know, checking off the boxes and having this hollow religion, but are we truly surrendering to Christ? Do we have those people holding us accountable? Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, I I think that's a that's a big one. I I do think, you know, uh I I would add to that of going, hey, making sure it lines up with Scripture. Um, you know, we always want to go with the Spirit of God, the scripture of God. But I think that is so important. I'm glad you're teaching our students that community is important because we can get right in our own eyes. We can justify, rationalize, and say, this is what it is. But when you've got people around you who really love you and who are also walking with Jesus, man, their words can be a lot more direct and truthful and helpful to go, hey man, this seems hollow and unreal. Um, that that wound from a friend can bear much fruit. And I think one of the things about Christians is go, are they bearing fruit over the long haul? Absolutely. I think I think the amount of time also plays into if it's checking a box or if it's you know something that's real in somebody's life. Well, let's go ahead and take a pause uh for our ministry highlight, uh, and then we'll jump back to the book. Y'all are gonna enjoy this one today.

Ministry Highlight Yona Church Plant

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All right. Welcome back to another ministry highlight here on Jet Fuel. And today we have a special ministry highlight for you. We have Mr. Joseph Dockery, the pastor of Yona Community Church. Just a little bit of background if you don't know who this man is. So Yona Community Church is the first church plant that uh came out of Concord. We planted last September. And so, Joe, how are you doing this morning? I'm doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. Yeah, thanks for having me. Are you nervous? Uh yeah, a little bit. Can we be nervous? Okay, all right. So, first question right off the gate. How are you? How have you been since September? Um busy, okay, but good. Um Yeah, I mean, I guess Dockeries in general, where um it's been a lot of new over the past two years. Yeah. Had, you know, um in in three years, it's been baby number one, church plant baby number two, yeah, um, service number two. So just a lot of things kind of new over the last short. Um what has been so you went from here, I mean, we have around 20-ish staff, and now you're at YCC with two and a half. Um and so sorry, Caleb. Um, so tell me how has that kind of transition been going from like almost like you get to bounce ideas off a lot of people, and now it's in a sense, when it comes to like Sunday morning sermons and stuff, a lot of times you're it. And so what is how how has that transition looked like for you? Yeah, um, I think, well, first just the transition to you know um a smaller amount of staff was an opportunity to really call our people, volunteers, to step up to the plate. Um obviously bigger churches need more staff, um, and that's just a necessity. So this was an opportunity for us to um kind of give a very clear, healthy promo to say, hey guys, it's time for us to step up. And so having volunteer leadership has been big for us. Um so yeah, I don't get to meet with them during the week, but we do have people who have stepped up to lead in volunteer sense, which has been really, really healthy for us. Um But yeah, there is some there are some lonely days, you know. Just chilling in the office alone. I'll look, I'll look at you know my watch and be like, oh, I haven't said anything in five hours. Um okay, what did it what did it mean for you guys to be planted out of Concord? Like I know we it was a pretty it was a lengthy process of figuring out like bylaws and what your church structure was gonna look like and when it was gonna happen and all like who we were gonna put in place. And so what did that mean for you guys to be planted out of Concord? I think that the the coolest thing about the the planting experience from Concord, it was definitely difficult and complicated, but it was also really unique and I think good was the fact that um the fellowship of Yona had existed for 12 years. Yeah. And so because the multi-site model had allowed Yona to exist in its early days when it wasn't self-sustaining, um, but to continue to grow, the unique thing about the church plant coming out of Concord that's different than a different church plant is um there was already kind of a a very core group of people that knew what it meant to be a fellowship that just needed to figure out, okay, what are the aspects about um going and being responsible for ourselves that we need to figure out? But because of the almost 10-year incubation period, if you will, of Concorde and just the healthy backbone uh that Concorde provided, that aspect, which is oftentimes really stressful for church planners of getting a core group that's bought in, yeah, was already there. That's right. And so that that just meant that all the the stressful logistical things and legal documents like you talk about, that's that could be really specifically stressed and worked on because we already had a people that were like bought in, which is really was really helpful. Um okay, so kind of last question for you. Um what if you're speaking back to the congregation at Concord and you're thinking back what has happened since September, what YCC is doing now, what's happening there, what is one specific thing that you would ask Concord specifically to be praying for you guys? Yeah. Um I think what what I would ask is we're actually um stepping into this Sunday um is um some dedicated prayer over the next five, four, five months, um having having paid off our. Oh, yeah, that's right. Okay. So I do want to I do want to mention that because me and Joe talked about this the other day, and then you sent an email to uh me and Clint. So when we planted you, uh the people of Concord extremely generously gave you a very good head start to kind of your the how much money that you owed on that building. Um and so tell everyone, like pretty recently you were able to pay off that note. Yeah, yeah. So with uh the help of Concord, an incredible uh down payment to get us going, we inherited about a $850,000 mortgage and in uh in a year um we paid that down. So what what what's big and what would invite Concorde to pray with us is is kind of just a heart set of, okay, Lord, what's next? Um obviously it's he did something big, very a lot of momentum and excitement with that. So we want to hold open hands to say, hey, God's doing something. We don't want to fall behind. Yeah. We also don't want to get ahead. And so we're gonna pray very intentionally over the next uh the rest of this church year of kind of a heart set that says, Lord, you lead, we'll follow. Yeah, yeah. Um, what's next? Because our building isn't the greatest. We love it. It's unique, it's quirky, but we do need more space. And so, you know, he's he's paid off the location already, and we're not itching to put on debt again. But yeah, if if we need more space and God wants to do that, you know, we'll pray. Let me actually I changed my mind. I told you that was the last question, I have one more. So we and you know this, we're the next thing that we're looking at is the Scotland church plant, which is uh probably 18 months, a little a little over 18 months out. If you were speaking to Concorde and that future church planner, whoever that person is, what would you say to them? Um I would say humility is incredibly important. Always a heart set of you can't you can't do it alone, obviously without the help of brothers and sisters of Christ and without the Lord. Just a hand, just open hand humility and and um also just a deep, genuine care for the people that God does give you to to cultivate though that that fellowship and that culture and and um that he'll provide the growth when when the times come. Yeah. Um the unique thing, uh because I people have asked me church planning questions over the last year, and I have to give them a big asterisk. It's like one of the hardest, hardest parts about church planning is the establishing of the fellowship. Yeah. And that was something, again, that I said was already in place. And so um that but that that is, you know, that's kudos to Concord for knowing how to um cultivate fellowship in multiple places. Um so I think that it will be it's twofold. It would be, you know, praying, Lord, open hands, I need your help um establishing the fellowship and doing the logistics. So cool. Yeah, I I I I very, very freely will relinquish. I am I I do not consider myself a church planner in the official sense. In the original sense of the word. Yeah. I got I I was definitely a guinea pig, obviously, but uh standing on the shoulders of people who really kind of went before with the fellowship. And so um but we do, we are very thankful and excited to be the flagship that hopefully both for Concord and for YCC um creates a church planning culture. I mean it's definitely probably a little bit farther off, but it's in my heart to see if uh the Lord can do something similar through YCC. Well, thank you very much, Joe. I always love seeing your face. Um be praying for Joe, his wonderful wife, his family, uh the YCC church family. And uh thank you for being here. Yeah, you got it. Bye. Hi, Light.

What Truly Defiles A Person

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Here we go back to Mark chapter seven, and uh we're gonna jump right back into uh a deeper walk into this topic. Yes. Uh when Jesus gathers the crowd, he says something uh that is very radical to this group. Which almost seems countercultural at the time and probably perceived as against anything they would believe that the Old Testament would say. But he says there's nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him. If you look at verse 15 says, um if it goes into him, but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile him. It's not about what goes in, but what comes out. Yeah. And you see this like, I mean, for any familiarity to Old Testament, there were unclean foods and there were clean foods. This is like he's just stirring the pot of just trying to get people to realize something that he is saying. Aaron Powell, but he is trying to shift the focus from external connection. Contamination to internal corruption. Oh, that's good. That is really good. Sin isn't something that's mainly an outside problem. There are outside problems that pertain to sin, but what he's trying to get here is there is an inside out problem. There is something that is contaminated in the inside that is working its way out. That's right. Um let's get to some questions. Yes. All right. So first one for you is why do people often blame external influences while ignoring their internal issues? I I think a lot of that, Miles, comes down to passing the blame. I think a lot of times we want to uh blame what happens or how we react to everything. Well, that's how I was raised, or you don't understand what I went through, or this is how it was modeled for me, or hey, this is generational, or an addiction, or a diagnosis. And not that uh none of those things can be true, but a lot of times I think we over uh extend fault or blame to those things. And and literally we want to blame what's outside uh for causing how we react rather than dealing with an unrepentant or unsubmissive heart. Absolutely. I agree. And that's that's something that I'm working through right now of, you know, getting married in three weeks. There are certain ways that I was raised up, uh, of church background, uh the way my parents raised me up, that's different than Caitlin's. And so there are times I found myself, well, this is what I was raised up, and this is the standard. But in reality, it's something that I've got to work on the inside to where we work on that together. So I think you point that out. Uh another question then why does Jesus or what does Jesus teaching reveal about the true nature of sin? Well, I think the true nature comes down to we're broken at the core, man. Uh I just we can't get away from it. When I hear this, oh, it just makes my skin crawl and be like, well, they got a good heart. Uh they're just good people. You know, it's some of this, you know, uh good old boy theology. I think that's how you reference it quite a bit, is good old boy theology of going, well, they're just good people. You just you just got to understand they got a good heart, man. That that's just not the way the Bible describes people. You know, uh there's rebellion in our heart. And so I think the true nature of sin is it's ugly, it's broken, it's been away from God. It is not what he desires of us, and I think we're broken at the core. Aaron Powell Yeah. I mean, culture tells us that we're good, and then all of a sudden we say, Hey, you're no longer good, that's confrontational. People don't like it. People don't like being called out. Like that's it's it's something that is going to

The Gospel Transforms From Within

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confront the true nature of our sinful nature. Yeah. There's this obsession in our culture with follow your heart, your truth, you know. Can I tell you, don't follow your heart. Um, an unregenerate heart is stupid. And it will it will make you do stupid, sinful things. You know, a regenerate heart, one that is made new in Christ, you know, we're we're following the Lord there, but man, that follow your heart, what you want, the the pit of your stomach kind of deal, that's only going to lead to heartache. And so Jesus begins to explain privately to the disciples that evil comes from within, from in the human heart. That's right. He lists things like pride, envy, deceit, sensuality, slander, among other things. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Which reminds us that the gospel isn't behavior modification, it's transformation. I used to say this when I was a student pastor that the gospel is not transactional, it's transformational. It's not about, you know, getting a get out of hell free card. It's not about walking the aisle, it's not about checking the box, it's not about getting a baptism t-shirt. It's not a transaction, it's a transformation. It is and not just I'm a better, I'm I'm me 2.0, I'm I've got to upgrade, you know, things are better. We've worked out all the bugs and the the stuff like that. It is literally, I have been transformed into something completely new uh in Christ. Yeah. I mean, he's coming and he is not coming to clean up appearances. He is there to make people new from the inside out. That gospel transformation, the regener regenerative heart. Absolutely. Well, let's do this. Let's let's bring this thing to a close. Why don't you give us a handful of things that people can think about, meditate on, look through, and really examine their heart with? As

Questions To Examine Your Heart

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we look through this passage and we see that there are traditions and commandments, the the focus of what has uh been passed down and the defiling of what comes from the inside. I think there's there's a couple things that we need to take away. The first one is are we more fear uh focused on our appearance rather than transformation? Are we putting on that mask that you've talked about? You know, are we e taking the easy route or are we truly submitting to the cost that it takes to find out? So you're saying stop worrying about what other people think and start worrying about what God thinks? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Uh another one is have any traditions, any routines, any ruts replaced genuine intimacy with God? That one stays with me. Uh that's gonna be a tough one to work through. My easy pathway is you know, click on the worship music in the car, but I've got to wake up early and intentionally spend that time in the Word. I've got to make sure I have that genuine heart where I am seeking after God's own heart. Well, I think, church, if you do this, if you take the time to do this exercise to examine if anything you do has replaced your genuine intimacy with the Lord, I think that is gonna be uh an endeavor that is well worth your time. It's well worth your time, absolutely. And then a last thing is am I allowing Jesus to deal with the deeper issues of my heart? Am I putting a wall around it or am I inviting him to allow that gospel transformation to work from the inside out? That's awesome. Well, guys, I hope uh for you that you have seen this as something where we can take the traditions that we have held above the transformation uh that happens in our hearts through Christ and make sure that we are very well aware of that. We're working towards that, and our hearts are surrendered. So that was jet fuel for me today, Miles. Thanks for being a part. Thank you for having me. Hey, we'll see you guys next time.