E53: Burnout, Hustle Culture & Performance: Why “More Work” Is Failing You with Rob Tracz

Are you working harder but getting nowhere? Rob Tracz breaks down burnout, hustle culture, and why movement doesn’t equal momentum. Learn how to build resilience, create real impact, and perform at your best—without burning out.

Connect with Rob

https://robtracz.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

What game are you playing today? Because if you don't know the game, you're probably losing it. Today I'm joined by Rob Tracy's, and this conversation flips how we think about work, performance, and burnout. Rob breaks it down simply: work isn't just effort, it's intentional, deliberate action. And here's the truth, more is not better. Movement does not equal momentum. From wrestling mats to the business world, Rob shares how the best performers don't just grind, they score points for the team. They build trust, they create influence, and they know when to push and when to rest. If you've ever felt stuck chasing success like it's a shadow you can't quite grab, well, this one's for you. Let's roll right in. All right, welcome to the Work Sucks But I Like It podcast. Today we have Rob Tracy's. He's the founder and CEO of Prime Performance Coaching that helps ambitious professionals break through stagnation without burning out. He has a master's in exercise science and is also the host of Surviving the Side Hustle Podcast. Rob, welcome to the show. Hey, Tony Man. Thanks for having me on today. No, awesome. So, Rob, first thing we do with our guests, how do you define work? How do you define it?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Work. So I would define work as um just intentional, deliberate action, going out and doing something. Um obviously, as you know, everybody kind of defines it a little bit differently, but um work for me in terms of profession or work for me in terms of just getting things done is um not too far from the same thing. So pretty much just getting out, getting after it. Sometimes it's aligned, sometimes it's not.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

No, I love that, Rob. So reading up, so we met on PodMatch for you listeners out there, wondering how we we uh connected here. So, Rob, you went through an experience of burnout. So walk us through how I guess you've come to this definition of work now through that experience. So walk us up to the point of you burning out, the work that you were doing.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, so uh I'd have to bring this back a little bit before the burnout phase itself. Um so as we were kind of talking beforehand, where I'm from, Philly, grew up moved to upstate New York. Um, my parents got split at a super young age. So family was always kind of like a shaky thing for me. Uh, and it wasn't until I found sports that really helped me define what family was. And then through sports, I that's where I think I my first definition of work came into play was like, all right, let's go, it's grit, do what you have to do, just kind of carry on. And and in different sports, I kind of fell in love because I started getting better, training myself, taking personal, that's really where personal development was first introduced to me. And um, the more that I took care of myself and performed better or developed myself, the better, or more playing time I should say, I had. And then the more playing time, the better I got, the more friends I had, the more influence I developed, and so on, so on, helped me get better grades in school because if I wanted to go to the birthday parties and stuff, my mom made sure that my grades were good. And long story short, it was always hustle, hustle, hustle. I developed this identity of this athlete who can endure more than others. Um, having relative success in the different sports, I always knew the harder that I pushed, the better that I would do, the better that the team would success we would have. And then after undergrad, um, I was afraid that my athletic career was going to be over. Uh, so it was easy for me to transition into like kinesiology and exercise science where I became a strength and conditioning coach. And are you familiar with strength and conditioning as a profession by any chance?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

No.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Okay. So typically as a strength and conditioning coach, you go one of two routes. You either go collegiate and try to work with bigger and bigger universities, maybe one day work with a professional team or at least one of the top-notch schools where you can finally start making money. Um, however, with that, it was a lot of uncertainty with your job security, and the pay wasn't really that great. You have to put in a lot of hours for not a lot of return. Uh, so the other side is you go the private sector where you usually have your own gym and you get the taste of entrepreneurship. You get to kind of work the cap for how much money you can make is virtually limitless. And the amount of time and effort that you put in directly reflects on how much effort you put into it and your value that you get paid back on. So I went that route and I was like, hey, I've got this identity, I work hard. If I can make more money from the harder that I work, this is perfect for me. So I quickly scaled my book of business up to this point where I was working 15, 16, sometimes 17 sessions in a day. Like I'd be up at like 2:30 from 3 a.m. first training session, and then like ending around like 9, sometimes 10 p.m. And I did that for seven days a week for about three years straight. I didn't take a single day off, like Christmas, birthday, skipped weddings, holidays, everything everything under the sun. I was working every single day. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I call that robot mode. So I was super efficient. I was good at making money, I was good at solving people's problems and strength and conditioning. And uh, I was doing really, really well for myself, or at least to the definition of success that I had set that time. And the, like I said, robot mode's good. Like there's nothing wrong with robot mode. The problem, though, becomes when you stay in robot mode for too long. And when you stay in robot mode for too long, you lack that human mode. And without human mode, you lose awareness and emotion and all the feelings. And what I was doing for that three years was getting really good at what I wanted to be doing, but I was also becoming really bad at paying attention to what was going on around me. So as a strength and conditioning coach, you're supposed to be at least a role model of health. My bot, I was I was out of shape, I was weak, I was sleeping poorly, eating poorly, overcaffeinating, turning to alcohol to kind of go to sleep at night, super um long days, and the relationship that I was in romantically just totally fell apart and disappeared. Friends stopped calling me to hang out. Family stopped even reaching out to me on holidays because I'd wear this like a badge of honor of like, oh no, no, I can't come home for the holidays. I gotta work, I got clients who need me. And everything was falling apart around me. And one of the biggest things that I did lose was my father, and he got sick with pancreatic cancer, and that came on pretty quickly, and I regret not spending time with him when I had it available. And after he had passed, I just went right back into the grind because that that busy schedule that I had became a distraction to me. And it was distracting me from realizing this life that I was building was not what I wanted to, and and it was I went right back to that seven days a week for another year, year and a half or so. And and then uh eventually that distraction was denied. It was a holiday weekend and everybody else was away. And I was like, dude, I was sitting in my apartment, it was dark and cold. I'm just like on my phone, like swiping, like on a dating app, like trying to find any client who's around, and nobody was available. So I sat back and I was like, well, what do I do on a Friday night if I don't have clients to train on Saturday? And then that little bit of reflection led into like, hey, what am I doing with my life? Is this what I want to be doing? And and then that's what sparked this whole idea of there's something more to what I can offer to the world. There's more value that I can do. And from that moment, there is when I've redefined, like, okay, well, this work that I'm doing isn't the work that I need to be doing. This is misaligned. How do I get to what I'm trying to do? And because I was so passionate about coaching and helping people get better, I knew it was still going to be in the coaching realm, but I didn't know how to pivot from squats and deadlifts into routines, habits, strategies, and momentum generating things. So that became like a new journey for me to set out on and to what I eventually do now with prime performance coaching.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

So I guess first off, I'm very curious because I love sports as well. What were you into for athletics other than like bodybuilding and stuff and the strength and conditioning? What sports did you play? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah. So high school I was um football, wrestling, and lacrosse. I did I was uh varsity captain, football, junior, senior year, and four-year varsity captain for wrestling, and two-year junior, senior year captain for lacrosse. So I always found myself in like leadership positions, and um those are my favorite sports. Wrestling was probably my best sport, but it was my least favorite. So I really liked football, played freshman year of college at up at SUNY Cortland. Um, and then I transitioned over into um rugby. Started playing rugby, became captain after in my sophomore year, we went on and won a state championship, went to nationals, and then rugby's kind of been my sport of preference for the past like almost 20 years now. Jeez, I forget how long how old I am sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I love all the team sports. So obviously, you know, sports has a lot of great analogies, right, with kind of work ethic and things. Why do you think athletes get such a tunnel vision towards like I love how you define work, right? It's a sort of intentional, deliberate action. You were set out, right, to get this business going. And then you realize one day when you were swiping, I love that on the phone, like, oh crap. All this action has got me to this point. That tunnel vision literally brought you, I don't know where, right, to a dark spot. Why do you think athletes, is that a good or bad thing to have this tunnel vision? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, I definitely think it is a good thing. So for athletes, being able to kind of hone in on that specific thing allows you to block out all the distractions on the outside. But just like for myself, it it almost allowed it almost caused me to block out too much stuff going on. And like reducing that awareness to the outside is what really started eating away at me. And then not paying attention to all the red lights or the flashing lights or the alarms of like, hey, like things aren't going the right way. I was so tunnel visioned that I was like, oh, I just got to get to the next milestone. Oh, I haven't uh, and then it became like a game almost to me, like, oh, I haven't taken a day off in two weeks. Oh, I haven't taken a day off in two months. Oh my god, it's been uh six months. Now it's like so more so far. And like that just kind of kept honing into it because I thought more was better. But I failed to realize that movement doesn't always equal momentum.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I like that. I like that. So, Rob, what's interesting is you know, you talked about your sports history, like all these team sports, right? Football and lacrosse rugby. I guess wrestling is an individual sport. What's in your business today? How do you look at business today? Is it that still individual sport? Is it a team sport? How have you integrated the lessons that you learned from sort of burning out on your own to the business practice of today?

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah. So, well, so wrestling is an individual sport, but there is still the team aspect to it, right? So, like there's still team scoring and things like that. And I think wrestling is probably one of the best analogies for the way that I look at business now, because what I so what I do specifically is I help business owners become better versions of themselves so that they can generate the momentum for their business. So I don't go in, I don't help people with their business per se, but I help them become better performers or prime performer. Just like wrestling, the better you are as a wrestler, the better your team is going to do because you can score more points for your team. And I think that's important because that's the approach I take when I'm looking at other businesses and other people, like, hey, okay, well, where are we starting to stall out? What are some of the areas that we might need to focus on to build ourselves better so that our business can succeed or at least generate the momentum to move things forward.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

So when I think of like, you know, you want to be your best in a particular sport. So I grew up playing like a lot of soccer and, you know, did rock climbing and skiing and golf, things of that nature. But so, you know, if we say that we want to be the best soccer player, we have to be more specific than that, right? We have to say we need the best player, be the best at passing the ball, kicking the ball, trapping the ball, team awareness. When you work with these people, Rob, what are the skills that you're trying to develop to them for them to be their best? Are there specific things?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

So the so what I teach is the prime performance process. I'm a big like analogy, I'm a big like acronym and alliteration. So there's a lot of like things that I teach, but um the prime performance process, there's six principles of of performance, and those are the things that we teach. So it's like how to develop resilience, how to leverage intentionality, how to get crystal clear on what you're doing, how to optimize your rules and routines, how to improve your or develop first if you don't have very much, but develop and improve your influence. And finally, the last one is all around opportunity creation. Just like a soccer player, like, yeah, say you want to be really good at soccer, like you gotta be fast, you gotta have endurance, you gotta be able to kick the ball, you gotta have vision, you've gotta have, you gotta be able to work with the team, right? So it doesn't matter if you're the best player in the world, if you're on the absolute worst team ever, chances are you're not gonna do this so great as a team. But you might be good, but the better that you can develop and work with other people, the better the team becomes. So that's essentially what I do is I'm like, okay, well, hey, let's look at our resilience. Are we challenging ourselves appropriately? Let's look at our inputs. Are we intentionally consuming well? One to energize ourselves, but then also to motivate ourselves. Three, are we clear on where we're going? Are we clear on who we are and who we need to become next in order to get that momentum and generate? Uh, four, are we are we moving as smoothly as we could? Are there other habits or schedules or something that we could implement to kind of smooth out this process? And then five, it's like, okay, what's our influence? Can are we, are we open to be influenced by better sources? Like, are we open to learning and and supporting and motivating? But can we influence others as well? And then finally, is like the opportunity, like, hey, do we know how to create a shared success? So not only do we win, our business win, but do other do we know how to help other people win at the same time? Can we create a collaboration where it's not just us winning, but it's the world, our customers, our clients, and other people are too.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

No, I love that. And I love your um thing about influence, right? And so people have like a lot of talent today, a lot of great things going on with people. And the biggest frustration I hear sometimes is that you know, they're not being influential. What are your thoughts are surrounding that? When people have this talent, like you said, they gotta be the best player in the world, but playing on the crappiest team, right? Talk to us about influence from that perspective. How to get is it do we need to be on the best team to be our best? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Well, so yeah, so like for yourself, Tony, how would if you were a little bit more influential, what would that kind of look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Oh, interesting. In terms of well, I guess this podcast, right? To me, influence is just kind of sharing ideas, having conversations. You know, someone once said that it's not like I don't think of success as like counting your likes and your downloads and all that, it's how many people can you influence, right? I think it's just having conversations like with yourself, Rob. Um, that's how I would look at influence. Yeah. And so if you had if you had more influence, what would that do? I guess in terms of, I love how you spun it back on me here. No, that's cool. Um I mean, I guess it's just it depends on where I'm at. I mean, I guess looking at influence is just this sort of responsibility, right? That I see it as. Um, just again, this podcast, you know, if it's influencing a lot of people, then that's great, right? I mean, I guess, yeah, this is my thoughts to that.

unknown 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

So like if you if you were to rank or scale up your influence, you'd probably be able to um get bigger and more known people in the world to kind of share their stories, and you'd be able to help um share people with less reputation their stories as well. So you'd be able to help generate more impact for them. But then also your audience would take more action, they'd tune in more, they'd be, they'd generate, there'd be more change, basically. The more influence you have, the more ability to change you have. So the more that you can develop your influence, the bigger impact that you can create. And at the same time, you've also got to be open to being influenced yourself. So having good mentors that can influence you, having good captains that can kind of teach you and you can lean on, and then also having that strong crowd, because I'm sure there have been times where like you're like, man, I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. Like, is this even worth it? Yeah, yeah. So you need those people to kind of keep you rolling through. So you got to develop that. And how do you develop more influence? Is you build more trust, and you do that through credibility and consistency. So showing up and and being true to who you are.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

No, I love that. Rob, you just made me think of um, you probably read Zig Ziggler, right? The great self-help guys, like, you know, if you can get everything in life that you want, if you help enough people get what they want, right? And kind of like I think of that with influence, right? Helping other people get their voice out in the world, be influential, and that in turn helps you be more influential. So, Rob, I want to kind of dive into coaching today because I've heard it quite a few times now on the podcast. I'd love to hear your perspective, especially with your sports background. So, in sports, we want to improve, right? Our performance. Very clear with, you know, wrestling and football, the objectives to be better. When we talk about coaching, I guess, you know, off the mats, off the field, I guess why is there such a big sort of market today for coaching? Why are people burning out and need coaches to help them with their life? Like I find that very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yeah. So uh I don't know how familiar you are with the uh, I guess the world of coaching or the profession of coaching, but it it really, it really kicked off in like the late 70s, early 80s, and started to pick up steam in the 90s. But back then it was really just besides sports coaching for like the real for outside of sports, it was mostly C-suite executives, like these higher-up people. Um, and really that came from the evolution of the workforce, right? So for decades, our whole education system, and I don't really want to get into like whether people think that it's good or bad or whatnot, but for the most part, it's been like, hey, follow these directions, remember this material and information, regurgitate it, and show that you can learn and follow directions. And that was really good for when we were needing to do that with like the creating of whatever it may be with the different like um uh like the industrial revolution, like the different factories and things, we needed to be able to do things that people were teaching us. Then through with technology, we started to develop these new roles where these higher-up individuals and the C-suites and stuff, they needed to start to be more creative, they needed to not only think or know how to or what to think, but they needed to think on how do they need to think. And this creativity was this whole new thing. So that's where coaches come into the play because having a coach shows you a second perspective, they show you the problem that you're looking at through a different lens. Because when we're dialed in, focused on tunnel vision, we can only see one way. But the coach or mentor comes in, they show us from a different angle, and that gives us more information to make better decisions, to expand our creativity and also make better changes and decisions down the road. And and as we continue to grow as a society, it's required to have more and more creativity as we kind of move down that ladder of the workforce infrastructure. So now you can see so many more people with creative roles. The barrier for entry in business is super simple. You just gotta have at least like I think it's like 300 bucks to to file an LLC. So that's all it really takes to kind of get things rolling. And now you have to be creative and figure things out. So the coaching profession has expanded and exploded because so many more people are required for that additional perspective. And with the use of AI and all these other tools, it makes it so much easier for us to kind of get that.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

But coaching is just continuing to grow and expand. No, that's super cool, Robin. I find that super interesting. Like you tied it, and I love your history on this of like it almost evolved with the workplace manufacturing technology and a response to that. And it's so interesting. You talked about being like a robot and a human, and it's like we've been so robotic of late that we need each other to be more human again. Like that's just I guess that's what's so fascinating to me about coaching um today. So, Rob, this is the work sucks, but I like it podcast. What is one thing that currently sucks today, whether it be coaching or whatever, and what are you doing to make it not suck?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, I mean, I I would be upset with myself if I didn't bring up hustle culture. Kind of going back to the like grind, grind, grind, grind, sleep when I'm dead kind of thing. And to a certain degree, I think it is important to have that. But when that's the only tool in your toolboxes that gr like hustle harder, you're just fast tracked to burnout. And then that's where a lot of stuff starts to fall apart, your health and everything. So yeah, it definitely sucks. But I think what I'm doing is trying to teach, like my whole mission here is to like partner with other solopreneurs because that's who I was, right? I was that coach that who thought all I needed to do to achieve more success was a little bit more sacrificing in myself. But eventually you get to a point where you don't have any more of yourself to sacrifice. And there's still that success is still out of reach. And I call that shadow success because every time you give yourself for a little bit more chance to lunge at the shadow, shadow success, it just so elusive. It just moves a little bit. So then you try again, you give another piece of yourself and you try again and you miss again. And you keep going, keep going, keep going. And that's the mindset of hustle culture. And that's what I'm here to do is to teach people like, hey, you don't need to completely sacrifice yourself. There are going to be times when you do need to grind, you do need to put in the hard work and you do have to have that grit, but you don't have to do it every single day. You got to understand the different seasons of your life, different sprint times and such. And it doesn't need to be a complete sacrifice. Like you can still be a human and achieve success.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

So, what are your thoughts with the work-life balance of today? Is that a valid thing, a valid statement? Is it the right equation we should be solving? What are your thoughts on work life then?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah, you know, I gotta, I gotta spend some more time to kind of sit and think about it and really define my my per my actual stance on it. But for me, I don't think that there really is a balance. Like there are different seasons that you need to go through, but you can't, like you for me, I want to make sure that I have at least an understanding of the boundaries. Because before when I was in robot mode, there was no deadline. It was just all right, I was chasing after the next financial milestone. And then as soon as I got there, the next one was already set up and for me to tackle and keep going for that. But I didn't have any systems in place to kind of tone back, reflect, and adjust to go forward. So I was just grinding my head into the wall. But having that awareness of different seasons, that's kind of where that balance, I guess, comes into play. But I think it's like you don't know what you don't know. And until you spend some time to start to think about that, that's where the frameworks start to fall into place. So, because some people, their sprint seasons are a little bit longer than others, and some people are gonna be okay with that, but if they don't have the place and time for them to tone down for maybe a little bit of calm and relax, you're lacking that creativity, that awareness, that emotion. And you're not you're not gonna get too far with that.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

No, I love how you talked about the different seasons, right? Of our kind of work ethic. What are your thoughts? I know you've been sort of this, you know, entrepreneur for most of your life here, with in terms of people that are nine to fivers, right? So um they're working all year long, right? It's not like academics where they get the summer off. So there really is no sort of season if you write. This quarter one, quarter two, quarter three, quarter four. What are your thoughts with like that, the industrial athlete of today? What would you give advice to with them for sticking in it for the long haul, this game of whether it be 40 years of retirement or whatever? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess they have when you live that kind of a lifestyle, I guess your seasons are kind of worked into it for you. So you do get the holiday seasons, you do get the weekends. Um, but those are the rules that I guess you're you're playing by. And part of the reason I like entrepreneurship is you get to create kind of your own boundaries and your own rules for what you're trying to do. But at the same time, like yeah, if you're like there, I know I have plenty of friends who are super happy with what they're doing. They love it because they get their weekends off, they and they have the holidays, they get what they're doing, they have their two weeks of vacation, and that works into the life that they want to build. But I think they're different because they are clear on what they wanted. So they wanted this life, they wanted that. I think the problem is when people are in a job that they don't necessarily like and they're just working just for the weekend and then it's not enough. I feel like they're a little out of alignment. And those are the people that I feel for the most because that's not really a way to live. Um and I wish I could help them more kind of figure out or find something, but it's it's that's a tough spot. So yeah, so people those who have a nine to five and they're happy and they're good with how they're going, I love it. More power to them. But for those who are like struggling and and they're building the slowly resenting things, and those are the guys that I really wish I could just connect with and like help because those those guys are the ones who are like tough, but I don't have the right tools to help them. But if they try to make that shift into entrepreneurship, that might be a better conversation to have. But I feel for those guys.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I guess what's interesting, Rob, on the show, I've seen sort of a divide, right? We've got the people that are in a nine to five, like your friends, and they're content, and you've got the people that hate nine to five, they think it sucks, they want to play their own game. I guess like what I mean, you're kind of saying it so far, but I kind of just want to dig a little deeper on this. Is there one particular route that's I'm gonna say better, but just like, you know, I guess what what are your thoughts in terms of like each route for a person's lifetime and achieving their potential of who they really are? Is there one that's gonna be more advantageous than the other or one limiting? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, no, I think both are um gonna be equally kind of. I mean, dude, I think that that's tough, dude, right? Because everybody's so different. So yeah. So like it depends on who you are. If you're somebody, um, through my studies, I've found that there are like six main motives or drives, and like depending on what your drive is, is gonna determine whether or not you're more fit for the other one or the other. So like, for example, myself, out of the six drives, which are like adversity, achievement, security, uh, service, unity, and I think I'm missing one more. I think that was five. Um legacy or significance. So of those, I am more so an adversity drive, an achievement drive, and a um and a um service drive. So helping others together and also challenging myself. So that's why I tend to be more of an entrepreneurial route. So that way, like I've had nine to five jobs, didn't really work too well. Uh entrepreneurship was more aligned for me because it motivated me and inspired me to try challenging and stuff like that. Flip side, my girlfriend, Victoria, she is a zillion percent uh security drive. So she loves the nine to five, she wants to have the plan, she wants to, she needs the certainty because that's what motivates her to keep moving forward. So she would never, I shouldn't say never, but she probably wouldn't enjoy entrepreneurship. Um, she really likes what she's doing, she likes that, and that's okay. And and I think that works out well for both of us because we both have our pros and cons and we get both best of both worlds kind of thing. But that's a perfect example of like, hey, her route with the nine to five is perfect for her. She gets everything that she needs and fulfilled. And on the other side, I would be dying if I was sucking a nine to five every single day. But this is that's how it is. So it's like split two different ways, I guess. So I don't know if that necessarily answers your question, but just all exploration.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I love it. I guess Rob, what I was thinking about was again, Zig Ziggler. It's like he says that life is not a spectator sport, it's a participatory sport, right? And when we talk about sports, you said seasons, it just makes me think because I hear the nine to five are sometimes crying out of, oh, I'm stuck at this desk and you know, chained to this and I'm not being myself. And then I hear the entrepreneur like, oh, I get to do all this, but I'm like burning out because I don't know where to draw boundaries. So I'm just like trying to navigate this conversation, right? That's all. So I love your thoughts on it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, yeah. And you know what's great too is like, so I host uh surviving the side hustle podcast. And that's a great, like just this concept of the side hustle, right? So you have your nine to five, and if you want to try out some of the other stuff and you like you, if you want to participate, so like maybe you're getting a little bit more confident playing soccer, they're like, okay, yeah, I've been practicing my my um ball skills and I'm ready to get out there, and maybe you want to like show up a little bit more on the game, like the side hustle is a good opportunity for you to test that out and flex it. But hey, maybe maybe it's not enough where you need you don't need all that pressure for that game-winning shot or the penalty kick or whatever it may be, but you just want to test it out a little bit. And then if it is something that you feel like you're doing better with, then you can make that adjustment into that nine to five out of that nine to five down the road, but you still have that back burner there. So if you want to use like the sport analogy there, it's like, hey, this is you want to test it out, try it out. Like, oh, here's a new play for football. Let's try out that play, see how it works. Like it's all about what you're comfortable with and what's kind of motivating you, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

So, Rob, it's been a pleasure you having you on the show today. If listeners want to work with you, you know, you being their coach, working through whatever they're going through, that side hustle, where's a good place for them to land?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, I mean, if anybody's interested to talk strategy or just kind of spitball ideas, the easiest place would be to book a call and we can just have an honest conversation around it on what you're thinking about and maybe some strategies on moving forward. You can book a call at just surviving the sidehustle.com forward slash free call. Or if they're not like open or confident or ready to even have a conversation, the best thing would be to just download my um my lead magnet thing here for the five keys to clarity and momentum. It's the PDF that I put together. It's super easy for people to kind of follow through and it teaches you the frameworks that I teach for you to kind of go at your own pace. And that's just that surviving the side hustle.com forward slash five keys. Cool. Rob, well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Been a pleasure. Of course, Tony, thank you. Rob said something that really stuck with me. Just because you're moving doesn't mean you're progressing. A lot of us are great individually, right? But the real unlock, well, how well do you work with others? It's like music, right? You can play every instrument yourself, and yeah, it might look impressive on YouTube, but it doesn't hit the same way as when you play in a band. And then there was this other idea I loved as well that we're not meant to compete all day, every day, right? Even in sports, there's seasons, there are breaks, there's recovery. So really hustle culture, it teaches us to chase these shadows, as he said, endlessly. So here's the skill today. Identify your rest. Schedule it, protect it, treat it like it matters because it really does. Success isn't a matter of good luck, it's good skills. And one of the most overlooked skills, again, knowing when to stop. Identify that rest. Thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time.