E93: Why Purpose Is Not a Destination - It’s a Daily Practice with Lorea Martinez

Burnout is not just exhaustion - it may be your life telling you that your purpose has drifted. Dr. Lorea Martínez Pérez reveals why purpose is not a destination, how to rebuild meaning in everyday work, and the emotional intelligence tools that can help you reconnect before cynicism and numbness take over. 

Tony sits down with Dr. Lorea Martínez Pérez, an emotional intelligence expert, creator of the Heart and Mind model, and author of Living with the Heart and Mind, who shares the personal burnout experience that pushed her to rewrite her own framework and the practical habits that helped her recover creativity, clarity, and direction. If you have ever felt stuck in repetition, detached from your work, or unsure what your contribution actually is, this conversation offers a clearer, kinder way forward.

Connect:

https://loreamartinez.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

All right, welcome to the Work Sucks But I Like It podcast. Today we have Dr. Lorea Martinez Perez. She's an emotional intelligence expert whose work helps people understand what burnout is really trying to tell them. She's the creator of the Heart and Mind model and author of the book Living with the Heart and Mind, a practical guide to healing from burnout and cultivating purpose. Loraya, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Thank you for having me, Tony.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Awesome. Lorea, define work for us today.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Well, work, I'm lucky to say that is what I love to do. And it I'm leaving my purpose, but that has not been a straight line.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

So walk us through, I guess, like finding purpose. I know it's like kind of a loaded question, second question out of the gate here, but I feel like a lot of people are trying to find their purpose. And you said something kind of, you know, what I think needs to be heard is that it's not a straight line. So when you say you found your purpose, how do you know it's your purpose, even though this line is zigzagged and squirrely and backwards and forwards and all over the place, maybe?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yes. So purpose is not a destination. And I thought that was a destination for a long time. Something where you arrive, and once you're there, you that's it, right? You you can work, you can embrace it, you can define it in different ways, but you found it. And actually something that you cultivate every day. So purpose is what you do to bring meaning into your life. It's something that has to be meaningful to the self, but also contributing to the betterment of society and that can be understood in a broad sense. And it's something that we cultivate every day, right? The way that you show up at the grocery store can be living your purpose, the way that you interact with your children, with your coworkers. And I've I think a very small part is what actually you do for a living, because it's such a much broader context and concept.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

But yet we place so much focus, right, on the thing that we do to trade time for money. Why is that? Why do we place that strong a focus on that?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Well, because it is the part that defines our identity. And I think that is different in different countries. I'm originally from Spain, and maybe people are still very attached to their work identity, but it's not the only one. And I think here in the States you can see how when you're retired, people have an identity crisis because they realize, oh, wait, I've been all my life working in this industry, having this role. I see myself as this role, and now I don't have it anymore. Who am I if I don't have that? And that's why I think work is a part of it, but understanding that your identity is so much more than just what you do for living. And even when you go to a party and you're meeting someone new and people ask you, oh, what do you do? The first thing you do is define your work. Like you do a lot of different things during the day, but work seems to be the one that we present as our is the first impression that we want to share with others.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

So, note Lorraya, I absolutely kind of hate that question, what do you do? So that's why I never ask guests, what do you do? Because I can't stand that question. I guess how do you navigate that question? Like if I were to ask you, what do you do? How do you navigate that and sort of encapsulate all these things you talked about in terms of purpose, bringing meaning to yourself? Like, how would you answer that?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Well, if I if I was in my in the right mindset, I would say, oh, I help people learn about their emotions. Just leave it at that and have people ask questions because that's a lot more exciting to say than if I say, Oh, I'm a consultant, I'm a facilitator, I write books. Like that sounds more boring, right? But when you I think it's thinking with about what do you do with a little more playfulness in terms of how you present to others. But again, you have to do it with intention.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

I love that. So I guess you know, your work around, you know, burnout, you know, burnout in a hustle culture today is just all over the place. First of all, how do you define burnout?

SPEAKER_01 4:33

So burnout is a state of exhaustion from an emotional perspective, physical, and also mental. And normally it happens when you there is a chronic, chronic stress, and you have been dealing with that stress for a long period of time, and truly your nervous system is dysregulated, and you are not able to like the the inputs in your life and how you are able to receive those inputs is not balanced, and you're normally struggle with thinking that you are not being efficient. You see yourself, you start becoming cynical and skeptical about the work, and you become a little bit numb to what happens in your life.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

So I find this interesting because people in a nine to five will say, like, oh, I'm here for a paycheck. I'm not here to make friends, right? And yet we still see burnout, right? Why why are people saying these things? Why are they saying same shit different day? I can't wait till I retire, I can't wait till the weekend, and they're here for the benefits, they like the commute, they like the paycheck, and yet we're burning out. But why is that?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

I think it goes back to what we just were discussing earlier around purpose. So if you are just doing it for the paycheck, that's a valid reason, as long as you are very clear that that's what you are there. But because of our human nature, normally we want things to have meaning. We search for meaning. And when that is not there, either because you haven't gone through a process of really asking yourself, well, how do I want to contribute to society in a positive way? Or maybe you are in a crisis, meaning you had a purpose and maybe that's not aligned with your current work, that also can create a situation where you are not really living the life that you are meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

So I want you to kind of, you know, break down the word meaning, because I feel like sometimes people, when they hear that, like what is the meaning of something? Like, oh, here we go, something philosophical, something like, you know, what is like a practical definition that you would tell someone working a job that is miserable to them? What is meaning?

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Meaning I see it as you are making a contribution. And that contribution can be as wide as the ocean, right? It can be very simple. If you uh work at the post office, you are contributing to your community uh getting their mail, right? So it doesn't need to be something where you are working at a hospital in hospice or being a firefighter. I think that sometimes we think about purpose as these very uh heroic professions, and it doesn't need to be that way, but I think it's more how you are seeing that the work that you do has a positive impact in yourself because you it makes you feel good or because you are contributing to your uh family's financial health, but also to the betterment of your community.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

I like that. So sometimes when people feel like you know, they're showing up to work, right? They're trying to market if they're, you know, uh they own their own business. I guess what you're kind of alluding to and sort of implying is that we need feedback, right, from our community. Walk us through how we should be giving feedback today. Because I guess the way I see this is, you know, very black and white. You know, I post something online, I get 20 likes. Yay, I got feedback. Is that the feedback we're talking about that we made a contribution? Maybe it is. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

There are two, I would say there are two levels of feedback. One is the internal, because and that's the place where you are less at the exposure of others. And what I mean by that is when you are able to validate your own meaning, right? And validate why that's important to you, you have more power because you are not letting others determine if what you are doing is important or not. So that's one piece. But we also need that social feedback. And what I found and in in my this last book that I just came out, this idea that you can walk around trying to build community. And one of the questions that I have in the book is in one of the skills of emotional intelligence, which is re-ignite relationships, the question is, how am I building a sense of community? And when you go around through your day with that question in mind, it really changes how you are in conversation with others, how you are engaging. And it can really make your life a lot more fun because you're gonna spend that extra minute with someone, either water cooler, maybe you are taking another minute to connect with the person at the grocery store. So really seeing the human behind the job, right? And I think that makes can make the work that we have to do more fulfilling, more meaningful, but also more connected. So we don't feel as lonely in the things that happen to us in life.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

So walk us through how you would differentiate the word networking and community building.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah. So networking could be just expanding the amount of people that you know, how you are connected. It could be virtually or it could be in person. When you are building a sense of community, is I would say a closer bond with people around you. And it doesn't mean that they need to be best friends, but knowing that you might know their name or you might know about their kids, you might have some more information. It's not just a stranger on the street. And we do have so many opportunities during the day to have and build that sense of community. And one of the things that really surprised me when I was writing this book and doing research is the level of isolation and loneliness that we have in the US. And that those statistics were really crushing to realize that there are so many people around us, because we might think about like, oh, it's the neighbor who live, it's an old person who lives by themselves, but it's not actually the case. There are many people who have that feeling of isolation and loneliness. And part of it is because our the way that our communities are today, and especially with technology, the it has changed how we interact and how we relate to each other. So it increases that risk and it can have a negative impact for our physical health, our mental health, and a lot of things. So that's something that it's important to pay attention to as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

So I can just picture some listeners, you know, of this episode right now saying, Well, I'm an introvert, right? I like being isolated. I guess walk us through when you use the term, you know, isolation and loneliness. What are you referring to? I guess what are you trying to describe?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yes, it's when you are feeling that you have a need to connect with others, but you don't have others to connect with. So if you're an introvert, that means you are getting energy from being by yourself, you are happy walking by yourself. But probably when you do want social interactions, you have a network or a community where you can go to. When people feel that sense of isolation, they might not have people around them, either virtual or in person, that they can reach out to. So there are communities that are working with this at a community level, trying to find ways through, for example, your local library to create events where people can join and do a hobby or learn something new or read a book together, trying to build that sense of community and ensuring that people don't feel lonely, that there are opportunities for you to join a group of people doing different things.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

So, Lorena, one of the things we like to say in the show is that success is not a matter of good luck, it's good skills. What would you say is the important skill to build community today?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Authenticity. It's just to be yourself. I I have a love-hate relationship with social media because I think that it what's that?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I said it makes two of us, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yes. Because it shows just as a part of your life or a a phase of your life, and that's not reality, right? So if you are authentic, that means that people can see you for who they are, and that people and and that also you are curious about who are the people around you. And when you have that curiosity, it makes it easier to just see the people as humans and know that we all have good days and bad days. We have things that are going well in our lives and others that we are working to improve. And it makes it, it normalizes the fact that life is not perfect and we go up and down, right? It's like a roller coaster.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

So when you say authenticity, now I have such a strong bias. You say love hate with social media. I feel like I more hate social media. And I guess um, you know, when I picture people online, you know, sometimes I feel like they're not authentic. How do you know how what's the, I guess, the guidance to tell someone when you know that you're being authentic? Like what are sort of the markers, the measures, the boundaries you set, you know, if you will, to being authentic?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

I would say that to show like the full your whole self. And what I mean by that is not just showing the good, but also showing the bad. But without a sense of trying to hurt others, I would also say that, you know, to be authentic doesn't mean that you are abusing or that you are being mean online because you can, right? I think that it's also using empathy towards others and being able to connect with others and say, oh, would that how would that feel if I did if I was going through that experience? So authenticity can feel very liberating when you know who you are, but it does start with that self-awareness of knowing, well, who is Tony, who is Laura, right? And it's a work in progress because our live experiences changes us and we have to see what how we evolve over time.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

So how do we show the bad? Because I guess I picture like on YouTube somebody riding their bike and falling on their face because and everybody starts laughing and liking that. I guess what do you mean by showing the bad side, if you will?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Aaron Powell Showing the bad means uh not hiding when you are struggling, for example. And and there's kind of like the other side in social media of people who share all of it, right? And and then your your life is a public movie, which you know, if if that's what you're up to, that's fine, you know, like more power to you. But meaning not to not to hide the parts within your life that maybe are not as great. And I I know that in the past, when people have told me, oh, this is happening to me, that creates a conversation with more depth. And it also gives me permission when I'm not doing well or I'm going through something, to go to that person and say, Oh, I'm going through this. So I think that that situation where someone always has to take that first step, but it creates more trust in the relationship. And that can be online, but that can also be in your, you know, in the relationships that you have with with people in around you.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

No, I love that. So, Lorraine, I want to kind of pivot here and talk about your work you're writing here. So your first book, Teaching with the Heart and Mind, you know, you've reached over 10,000 educators worldwide. It was named a 2021 favorite book for educators by UC Berkeley's Greater Good Science Center. I guess what inspired you? What was lacking in that first book to then turn around and say, wait a minute, it's not teaching with the heart in mind, it's living with the heart and mind. Why the change of words?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah, so the first book was really focused and written for educators who are trying to teach kids how to be, you know, emotionally aware and how to solve conflicts. So it was really focused in the classroom and how to make that happen. And the Living with the Heart in Mind was a book that I wrote because of my own experience with burnout. And I realized, well, I had a lot of tools that I had been researching and creating to develop my emotional intelligence, but that was not enough. So I expanded the framework and I added some intentional habits and certain qualities that really were tools that I used to heal myself. And I, you know, put them in a book. And the book was really a bridge to my own healing. It really helped me kind of like reconnect and rediscover my purpose so I could keep going doing the work that I love.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I feel like that's why I like to write too. It's like you just, it's kind of a selfish reason, but then you're like, oh, this worked for me. Let me share it with others. What is one tool that you use that you kind of talked about? What was something that you kind of a skill that you you use to help with managing burnout?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

A big one was curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

So interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Curiosity is a very powerful quality because it puts away for a moment the judgment that we have. And you know, judgment is a way for our brain to economize and just optimize and say, okay, is this good or bad? Like I need to know right away. But when you go through the day and that happens without intention, there's a lot of information and things that you miss because everything is being judged, from like how you look in the mirror in the morning to interactions with people to the value of the work that you do. So when I was going through burnout, just like approaching my experience with curiosity instead of being, hey, you are failing, the things that were meaningful to you, a lot of the joy that you felt in the work is gone. You get up in the morning after eight hours of sleep, you are still tired, what's wrong with you? So approaching that instead of with that negative voice with a little more curiosity and asking, oh wow, this is really difficult, what you are going through. What do you think is happening? And that helped me create a little bit of space between the experience and what I was feeling, trying to understand what I was going through. And I have shared this, you know, there's a chapter in the book about curiosity. And I have shared with with friends while I was writing, and the people find it so helpful to know that you can ask open-ended questions when you want to learn more instead of putting your perspective in front. And I can tell you that's something we could use a lot more of nowadays, instead of putting your, you know, what's your version forward, just to ask that person, oh, what do you mean by that? Or tell me more. There are so many ways in which you can engage curiosity in your everyday life. It's you just have to watch kids. They are, you know, they're our best teachers.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Hopefully, kids not on their phones, but no, I got you. Yeah. No, I love, I love that. So not that I want you to totally relive your burnout experience, but can you walk us through sort of the the parts that sort of were frustrating and then you started to build that curiosity? I guess what was that kind of chapter of burnout? What did it look like for you? Like what was the scene, the context? What were you doing at the time?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, so I was, I mean, I was doing the love, the job that I love. I was facilitating professional development for teachers. I had been running my consulting business for almost 10 years. But it really got to a point where I didn't feel the joy. And the things that were fun and fulfilling in the past, it was not there. It everything felt like a to-do list. Like you, you just go through the moves. I was very effective and very efficient. From the outside, everything was going fine. But inside, I was not feeling well. And in the book, I tell the story of the the day when I realized that I was burnt out. I was going for a walk with a colleague, and we were brainstorming ways to increase my revenue. And improve the consulting offering. And I just started crying. It was like we were in the middle of the street, started crying. I couldn't stop. I felt so overwhelmed and just a sense of hopelessness. I had a lot of anxiety about even thinking about adding anything new to my plate. And I had been feeling very dry creatively, like I'm a very creative person. Writing is my, you know, the way that I express creativity. And all of that combination was kind of like the adult meltdown that I had. And that day I was like, oh, this is not, you know, this is not normal behavior for me. Like something that was small, like a simple conversation felt so big. And that's the day that after that I was like, oh, I need to, you know, hit the pause button on this movie because I need to make some changes.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

So it sounds like it was almost like a slow burn, if you will. So then it sort of like broke out in the end. What were some of the looking back, I guess, what would you say started taking you down that sort of path of burnout? Because I feel like consulting and the work you were doing, you could be curious, right? You have as a new teacher, you're all we could there's a lot of opportunity there. I guess what started changing for you to where the point where you were walking with your friend?

SPEAKER_01 23:20

I think one thing was repetition. You know, when you do things for like the same things over and over again, that uh starts to erode. But I think that the most meaningful one is kind of losing sight of why I was doing the work. Ah. That was the thing. I would I have always been very driven by purpose, but I I needed to revisit my sense of purpose. And that's something that it's a misconception, right? Like we were discussing purpose. You don't arrive to purpose and you land and you are done, but it's something that you have to revisit many times during your lifetime. Even if you are doing mission-driven work, it doesn't matter, right? And for me, that was the point where again, I was just going through the moves, checking things off my to-do list, but without be being grounded on why I was doing what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

So you saw sort of purpose, you kind of talked about in the beginning, you know, the podcast here, that it was a destination, but then you realized once you got there, it's not a destination. Like you said, it's a process, right, that you have to embrace. I love that kind of full circle there. So, Lara, this is the work sucks, but I like it podcasts. What is one thing that sucks about your work today? And what are you doing to make it not suck?

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Oh, what sucks is how hard it is to get people to pay attention. And as an author, as a creator, we do all the dances. I'm sure you have watched the video of the guy dancing at a park where he's the only guy dancing first, and then he's dancing and dancing, you know. And after a few minutes, there's one person joins and starts dancing with him, and then eventually you have more people around it. So as a creator, I feel so many times that I'm the only one dancing. I'm putting all this content out there, I'm trying to get people to say, hey, this is a really good resource. Come come talk to me, come check out my things. I have all so many things that are available for free, and then you don't hear back from people. So that's the part of the work that sucks.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

What are you doing to make it not suck or try to just keep on dancing, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

You keep on dancing. There's no there's no other way. You keep on dancing and you pay attention to the things that work. And this morning I just I was commenting on someone's post on LinkedIn, someone who also just released a new book, and then they wrote something nice back. And to be honest, that made my day to be like someone who, you know, a colleague, maybe it has been a couple of years since we haven't connected, and to say, oh yeah, I remember it was so great working with you. Well, that, you know, that gives you the motivation to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I love that. So, Lorraine, I know your your recent book came out very recently, right? Last couple of weeks. This is June of 2026. It's now available. If listeners want to take a peek and, you know, what I guess, first of all, what is one thing that they would take away from reading this new book? And then where's a good place for them to pick it up?

SPEAKER_01 26:31

One thing they would take away is that if you are struggling or just going through a transition, that there are tools you can use to get better and maybe evolve your mindset. And they can find me online at my website, laureamartinez.com. That's l-o-r-e-martinez.com. And they can take, I have a free self-assessment on my website and a bunch of free downloadable tools from the book, so they can take a pick and see, they'll find something they can do.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Awesome. Well, Lorea, thanks for being on the show today.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

It was great talking, Tony. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Thank you. And there's a win flab across the place, and it's seen.