Why Your Unique Interior Design Style Fits Perfectly in the Market | Episode 25

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I like posting my home because I I show uh more than what I do. Because when you're doing with a client, it's more confined. It's exactly what they really want. So now posting my home is like it is my background. Like this is what exactly I want. Like even I think uh I've gotten quite a few projects, a lot of projects by posting my home. So more than posting the client's home. Because I think it's more, it's more exactly personal and exactly what I want and what I want to see the place look like. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Welcome to the Studio Little Bold podcast, where vision meets execution, creativity finds clarity, and mentorship unlocks potential. I'm your host, Abigail Ossidiana, and this is the space for designers, dreamers, and change makers looking to build bold ideas and shape the future of interior design. Hi guys, welcome back to our channel. Today I'm so excited to introduce to you one of my favorite interior designers on the internet. Thank you so much, Isabel.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Wow, thank you so much, Abigail, for the amazing introduction. I'm honestly honored and uh taken aback. So thank you so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, I actually have been following you for such a while. Just I like Kanza your videos. I love just seeing the authenticity. It doesn't feel rigid, it doesn't feel forced. It feels just like you're bringing the viewer on your journey into the spaces. I love your audacity. Thank you. Yanni, I could never you know, I could never Yanni. I love it. So please introduce yourself and I can't wait to hear your story.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

All right. So uh again, thank you for inviting me um to your podcast. I've listened to most of your podcasts, and they are very, very knowledgeable. So I'll keep listening. Uh, my name is Isabel Kanongo, and I am the founder and the lead designer of Stylebox Interior.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Good. So we'll drop the links here. Yeah. After the video, please go and watch. Go see Instagram, go to YouTube, just go see what you're going to find. So leave her a comment. Yeah. But before you do that, let's just get right into your story. Yeah. Tell me. Quick question. Did you go to school for interior design or self-taught?

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Wow, uh, it is actually self-taught. Wow. So no interior background, no nothing, just self-taught. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

How long? How long have you done it?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Uh, it's actually a COVID product. Oh, really? Um, I resigned. I think before that, uh, I've seen my dad uh really transform places. My dad was not an interior designer, but he really loved transforming places. So I think we really picked up from that. We are four girls in our family, five, so including me, we're all five. And I think my dad, when he was transforming an area, he would call us, ask us for ideas, but unfortunately, he never used to go with our ideas. But I guess that's how we learned. So um Stylebox has actually been a COVID baby. I really did not start knowing that I was going to start a business. Um, I had just resigned from a top advertising agency, and I was actually handling a top advert um client, but then I resigned, and then as soon as I resigned, I started events. And soon after starting events, like I think about two months, COVID happened at the end of 2019, 2020. And then at some point the director said, Look, uh, we can't employ you guys because we don't have business. So as soon as that happened, um, as soon as that happened, I sat back and I decided, now what am I going to do? So that's when I decided to actually, I thought about my home and I thought about uh taking pictures and sharing them on Instagram. I did not tell my husband, I did not tell my sister, so I opened a different page, like totally different from my personal my personal uh page, and uh I started posting, and the full reason why I started stylebox is mostly mostly because one I wanted to share my home, but second of all, the main point was to actually share my testimony. So I used to share a post and then I used to write like a devotion at the end. So if you go right down at uh most of my posts, they have a lot of devotion, which then that evolved because now it was a business. Yeah, so that's how it grew about.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I'm curious. When your dad used to transform spaces as what was he a contractor?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Was he no, he was in a different business space. Uh, but he but he's the one who actually transformed our home. Um, since um we grew up in Malaysia, and since we came back from Malaysia, uh he transformed the home. So he bought most of the items from Malaysia, transformed them, and since 2006, I think we he came back in 2006, till today, the home is still untouched. And every time someone comes, he everyone's time every time a visitor comes to the home, they're very like, wow, who did this home? And they can't even believe it's my dad who did. So I think that's where we actually really picked up from yeah, from there.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Oh, and then now you go to the events place, work for two months. After they let you guys go, I'm curious why wouldn't you or why didn't you go into the event space you went to?

SPEAKER_02 5:33

You just decided now your personal stuff or I think one um I actually did try interior and events at the same time uh because I had people who uh from the previous events company who uh really had we had a really good connection and they really wanted to work with me. So they'll probably give me work or refer to me. And there was a point where I would do a bit of events and a bit of interior. But I found interi uh events was quite demanding, especially like doing a wedding and you have to be there. I mean, interior is still the same, like there are no there's no difference, but I don't know why events was quite more demanding uh to see like imagine a bride coming and thinking this space is not amazing. So I think it was more demanding in that way that I I had um a perfection perspective and it was only a one-day event. If I do that wrong, there's no coming back to it. So that's what really that's why I never really chose events as and uh persuaded it a bit more.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Oh, did you have experiences that actually or was it overthinking, or did you actually have experiences that made you feel like, hey, this is uh-uh?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

I think it's just overthinking. I I do that even in interior. Umthink, and I think it was also overthinking in my event space. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

So now you start uh with the post, with the devotions, and then you start showcasing your home. Which space at that time, which space did you start with?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Um, I started at home. It was my bedroom because that's what I um I actually did a few DIYs. I asked my fundi to come and um to come and upholster my bed, which was like a wooden bed. Actually, it was my husband's bed. But I mean, it's a guy, so it was like pretty. Yeah. So I asked.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

So he when he was a bachelor.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah, when he was a bachelor, so I told him, okay, now we need to upholster. So we upholstered it, did the full room, and then that's when I posted now the room. Yeah. So I started from the room, then transitioned to um the living room. Uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Hey, you know, I'm just wondering, okay. Sometime back, let me say, how long ago? Maybe two or three years ago, I had started posting my home, and then I was just feeling like, guy, this is so out. Yeah, I know, right? I don't know. Does it ever cross your mind?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Um I I don't know. It never crossed my mind then. Yeah, I never crossed my mind. I like posting my home because I I show uh more than what I do, because when you're doing with a client, it's more confined, it's exactly what they really want. So now posting my home is like it is my background. Like this is what exactly I want. Like, even I think uh I've gotten quite a few projects, a lot of projects by posting my home. So more than posting the client's home. Because I think it's more, it's more exactly personal and exactly what I want and what I want to see the place look like. So yeah, yeah. So it's not really personal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So we were doing a construction when we were yeah, when I'd started posting, and I kept telling him, Do you feel weird that I'm posting? Do you feel weird that we have things when people know too much? You know, when people know like where you live.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

I've actually gotten one, like, oh yeah, that's your place. I know where that is. Wow, can you do my own? You know, or yeah, there's some people who will actually know, or there's some people who will ask you where you stay, but I do not give that information of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Mine even is even worse. Sometimes I think of should I say this? Like where is it? Like people know, like the orientation of your home. Oh, like from this into this, this is the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I'm just like it's too personal, yeah. It's too personal, but also I think the reason why you are overthinking is because probably you're from the interior design background. I don't I didn't have anything to showcase, like that was my first. So I think probably it's more personal for you than it is for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Oh, what do you mean? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Like it from an interest because I I feel like you started from an interior background. I didn't I didn't have anything to showcase.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Like so at that time, actually, I didn't have anything to showcase. Let me get it. Oh, okay. Because I'd been employed for like I think eight or nine years, and during that period, I was so anti-social media completely. So by the time I left, I didn't have anything to show that okay, people know that I'm an inter design, but I don't have to do that. But that's about it. Yes, to show because actually, like some of the places I used to work, or rather, one that I worked the longest, um would develop, design, and build for themselves. So we didn't have business of looking for other clients or other projects outside. We just had endless flow of work, you know. Yeah, so for that time, you're like, Why am I posting? Ah, yeah, makes sense. Yeah, so when I think back, I should have been posting at that time, you know. So now when I started my family, it's like, okay, now what am I going to show people? What am I going to show people? You know, I'm not going to show my child. Yeah, yeah, my mandas, even I'm eating breakfast. So, like, okay, let me just show the the construction. But soon after I was like, Kai, no, this is too personal. I keep tagging with it. I keep tagging. Maybe one day I'll get back, but probably, probably, yeah. Although recently I was telling my happy, maybe what I can do is showcase the outside structures like the gazebo, maybe the pool area and stuff like that. But the main house, no, like everyone can enter and know exactly where to turn or anything.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Oh, so anyway, I'm just talking about this so that I get courage from you.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

You should, you should.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, yeah, because actually, I really like one of the recent updates you did to your dining room. Yeah, I was like, What? Yeah, this dining room is so bold and beautiful. I love like the whole paper, like the console, the credenza. Yeah, yeah. It has so much character. Thank you. Thank you. So, do you do that a lot? Do you like change up your spaces a lot or actually, yeah, a lot.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Actually, my husband knows that a home cannot stay like in six months or a year, yeah, something else is changing. Really? Yeah. In fact, I think um, right after we got uh from honeymoon, I think that's where now I realized that my passion was growing, but I hadn't thought it would come to a business because that time I was employed. As soon as we came from Honeymoon, I put him to task. We started painting the house.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yourself?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

No, yeah, no, myself and my husband. So it was day and night. And he was like, wow, this is what marriage is all about. Then now I think now he has really gotten used to it. Uh my my children, my two children are like, ah, mama, now that one is being sold. What is coming next? Or you know, like it's it's it's like a roller coaster of changing my place. But I really get bored and I change places quite often, so I actually love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

When do you actually sell like your old stuff? Actually, I usually wonder.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

That's how my first client walked in by selling my home during the COVID period. I mean, sorry, selling some of my furniture. So uh because I wanted to transform my living room and I didn't have money at that time because I wasn't working, so I sold some of my items. I think it was a console table, a few items. Then uh the person who was coming to pick the item uh was a lady. She was, I think, in just graduated high school, and the dad. And as soon as they walked in, and they were like, Wow, you're home. Like, who does this for years? Like, yeah, it's me. I just just me, my interior, everything. And then within two weeks, uh, she called, I think two weeks or three weeks, she called me and she asked if I could actually do her bedroom. And that's how the first project grew. So from them coming to pick um items, so I usually just sell them online.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I think on the style box page.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Not style box, no, I don't do. I asked um some on the you know, those um Instagram pages where they sell uh they resell for you items. So I actually asked that person, I had my contact, they called me, and then they came to pick. So that's how I usually uh sell my items.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, how do those ones work? So once you post or you you you give them an image of okay, maybe I'm selling this table, they put your contact, they put your contact on the page.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yeah, they do. They do. Luckily, I think also the good thing is that I stay in a very safe estate. So I mean, someone has to like like I mean the security has to be very tight. So if I was staying in more like a standalone, maybe I'll take it somewhere and then they'll come pick it from there. But now actually they come from my home because I feel like the security is quite tight, so it's not as bad as yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

So me, I'm not even scared of security, I'm scared of like even my number. Putting it on the internet, then I remove it. I'm like so I keep tagging. Yeah, I have a tag, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah, yeah. I think I've even my business. Sorry to say that. Yeah, yeah, it's still my personal. I need to change that though. Right, like because it's still like it's my personal number and it's still my work number. I still need I really need to transition from that, really, really need to transition from that. It's coming.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, yeah. So, how do you move from this first client? You do their bedroom. Uh-huh. How do you now build it up? At that point, are you thinking this is a serious business, or you're like, ah, okay, one client.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Yeah, I didn't think it was serious. In fact, I had like um three months, four months old baby. Um, my husband was very supportive. So I went with the baby for the side visit. My husband drove me. And because my child was very attached, so I was like, it was just one of those, maybe I I got lucky and all done. Yeah, so I I didn't really think it was like a like a serious project. It was like one of those passing by. She came by to my home and then she figured out that I know how to do it, and I got it. Um, so and it was a very small project, but uh, so I didn't think it was something that will grow or transition. In fact, I knew that after COVID I am looking for another job. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like I I knew because I I mean this was just passion, maybe just posting, maybe an influenza perhaps. You know, you know, maybe it would have grown to be an influenza, but that's that's about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

What do you move from? What's the next project you move to at that point? So do you take a break for a while, or what how how do you move around?

SPEAKER_02 16:32

After that project, I think it took quite a but my first project took long to complete. Long because it was my first project. I I didn't have this, the I didn't know how to budget it, first of all. I didn't know, um, at least I knew the founders because I had already done my home and all that. So the artisans and all that.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

At least the first is this one that you're saying, the bedroom. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Okay, okay, okay. Yes, it was the first one. And I think I always say thank God that he gave me a small room because I can only imagine if it was a big one, especially the budget, it would have been uh, I would have really suffered because I didn't know how to cost. I think I um I lost quite a lot. I find I finished the project uh a few months down the lane, a small project, but it's really I really learned a lot. I learned a lot from that first project. Um, how to communicate with the client, how to budget uh the project, and just finding the right people to work with. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Was the client supportive during this journey? Were they understanding? Okay, uh this is just passion, or were they taking it like should I consult?

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Very, very, very understanding, very understanding. I was like, what? Yeah, she she was really understanding, luckily.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, how long do you think that took?

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Like I think it was two months.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Two months is not so long.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

I mean, for yeah, because it wasn't quite a lot, it was the bed, the art, the desk, and um a rug. So it wasn't and painting, it wasn't quite like a very heavy project, but uh yeah, it took two months.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Wow. So what I'm also getting from you also are like super, super creative, just connecting the dots, like how frequently you change your home, like just the way you do your things, you're more like uh you know, super uh creative. Should I say that? I'll say uh why I'm saying that is like for me personally, even like with my style, I'm very clean lines, very simple. And once I do a space, that's it, I don't change it. That's it. I don't change it. So what what I will change maybe is the bedding, maybe the pillow cases and stuff like that. But once I'm done, like the home where we live right now, I think we've lived now in Nairobi. So currently where I am now now, yeah, maybe for four and a half years. And once I finished doing it when we moved in, maybe within that first year. So it I took it took me a long time, like a year to like get it to how I wanted it. After that, that was it. In fact, it took everyone. I don't want this one there, I don't want this one right there. No, it stays like like wow, wow, so you are so different, very different.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I don't think I can. Oh, I've tried, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, hi yeah, yeah, hi yeah. So uh you take two months. How long does it take before you get the next project?

SPEAKER_02 19:38

I think it was like about five five years, yeah. Five months. Oh, five years. Five months, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Are you looking or you've gotten another referral?

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Um online. It was actually online from the post. Yeah, from the post. Now I was still posting my home. I think now the living room had had had completed the living room. So I was sharing the living room and I was also sharing um my clients' home. So that's how now the second um project came about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

This project, how long did it take?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Um, it was uh much better. I was still struggling on budgeting. I think that was the biggest killer in uh my very early uh years of uh the company. Uh, how to budget, and I think that sort of dragged me because I mean you've already set the budget, you have already shared the budget with the client. You do okay, you don't even have a contract because I mean yeah, you're just like winging it. So yeah, so I think um it took it took like about maybe three, four months, but it was also a living room, two bedrooms. So it I think four months wasn't too bad. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

And at that point, do you have knowledge on pricing or you're just like ah doesn't matter?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

No, uh no. I I think okay. I used to share with the artisans what needs to be done, then they share. Sometimes I was a bit like, I think because I thought this this client probably chose me because my quotation is way better than the rest. So I used to sort of like reduce the margin so that I get the client. So it was kinda kinda that like like I was like, okay, this I'm probably not going anywhere. Maybe it's just a passion, but I still want to get more clients to move from A to B. And before I figured out that this is not actually passion, it is actually a business is when I really sat back and decided if a client says yes, it's a yes. If it's a no, we move. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

So, how long from this second client do you register your business? Or should I ask that? Took long. Oh, really? So now you're just taking more and more.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yeah, I was taking more.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Um what makes at this point? What makes you decide uh-uh, I'm not going into employment? Because I remember you had mentioned you were thinking of going back.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah, yeah. Um, one is because I didn't really want to. I I I I wanted to go for survival, but I didn't want to go because I I only knew advertising. I mean, I worked in the advertising space for 13 years and I had a growing family, and advertising was really take sucking, yeah, sucking in all my time. So I really that's when probably I really tried hard to also make this become yeah, work so that at least I can work from home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

So now you're balancing the at this time you had this is the second child or first first child. This was first child, yeah. Also Nika handbag. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

That's why I even went with my firstborn to uh to projects because I didn't know how to like even giving to the house manager was like, No, yeah, yeah. So I also used to do the same.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, I remember these. So when I was on maternity leave, I remember there was a client who was like, I know you're on maternity leave, but please come and was like, I'm coming with my baby.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

I used to go with my baby, the money, do your like okay, you know what? You can just use my office. Your nanny can sit there with the baby, it's okay. Because I remember I would leave them like in the car and you know, like open the windows and stuff. They she carries uh the baby around, and then I would hear maybe I'm doing a presentation, and then I hear the baby crying about oh, you're like what thank god for such clients, I know timing. Yeah, yeah, but after that, I think I also take took another long break before I had to get any yeah, any go to any other meetings, so maybe at three months, at eight months, if you're like to span, but all those periods, yeah, a baby, yeah, me and the baby, and I would breastfeed them in the bottom.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Wow, okay, that was yeah, thank God for understanding clients.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Yeah, I know you know what to do, yeah. But I got it done. Got it done. So you've uh stayed home. Now you're figuring okay, I don't want to get back into advertising, but let me actually just comment something. Maybe that's why also the way you curate your socials is so what's the word? It's so pro. Oh wow, yeah, it feels like you know, the there's a way it doesn't feel rigid, but it looks like it's done by an eye, the eye of uh you get of a marketer. Yeah, yeah. You get the way they say, Oh, you have an inter design eye, or you have a this eye. Yeah, it looks like oh thank you. So that's why that way. That's why higher sour. Um you stay, you've done the first job, you've done the second one or rather project. Uh, what do you do next?

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Um, still home projects. Um this one's how you're getting that.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Then still online.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

And then at some point after online, now I started getting referrals. Yeah, quite a few referrals and still online. I think yeah, most most of actually, even today, most of my business comes from referrals or from Instagram. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

You're the one of the people who've cracked the code, the Instagram code. What um I hope the Instagram code because for me I usually get actually I would say 98% is referrals. Oh wow. I hardly I even I wonder how you do the Instagram one. That's really because you know you need to also get from other sources, yeah. Um, the internet what do you what would you say your cheat code is?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

I don't know. I'm trying to figure out because I am a very perfectionist. I think that's one thing, and I think when I go quiet, just know I'm trying to wrestle to post a post that uh I've already completed. And the more I am underground, the more I'm not getting clients. The more I post, the more I post, the more I get a client. So at least I get pushes from you know, people I know, like my sisters, my husband. It's like you post, you're going to you post like this is amazing. I'm like, maybe I should have done it that way or done it that way, or you know, so it kind of sort of like holds me to post uh more cli um to post my work, and that also holds my business in such a sense.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah. So other than residential, I've seen you've recently done spritz. Go see those videos, those reels. Ah, love it. The hair studio. So she's a designer who's done it and she's done an incredible job. Thank you. But that is retail. How how how did you switch into retail?

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Wow, actually, that was um my first retail. Really? Yeah, it was my first retail, but there was something that I loved working in retail. I think it's because uh retail and home are quite different. I think retail is much easier to work on than home because home is more emotional, more all that. But commercial is like you're given a space, you share the renders, and I think you're given now the space to work on it. But now homes is more like you know, the client is there 24-7. They really want to see what you're doing, what material you're picking, and all that. So it gave me such a big satisfaction, uh satisfaction to actually do spritz. And I kind of thought that I actually want to sort of branch into more commercial than in more yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Oh wow, yeah. So isn't that amazing how just life throws you things that show you oh, actually I could do something else. Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness, hiya. Let me run you back. So, all through how how long have you been running your business now? Even before it became official.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

That's five years since COVID 2020.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Congratulations, even more than three years in business. I'm telling you, this is my robe is I know it is, it is, it is. So I give you my coffee. Shango na bigele gele. Thank you. Yeah, so what would you say your biggest lesson or surprises in running your business? Um, a business that started from flux. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or rather, God's grace, let's say it's that.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yeah, I think my biggest lesson was teamwork. And especially with my fundies, um, I really advocate teamwork. Um because these are the fundies you have, like you are in a project, you have different fundies who are plumbers, then you have the joinery, then you have the electrician. Like just advocating for them to work together for me, it's a very big win. In fact, um I think most of my fundies will really have come from way back since we started, and we have become like we have really grown like a family. So for me, that's a very big win for that. Yeah, that's nice.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

So it's more or less then you move with them on all projects, not like you're looking for fresh people.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Um, no, I actually have lead lead foundies. So if it's a joinery, I have a lead. If it's a plumber, I have the lead, the electrician, I have the lead, then they bring in people who they think are capable capable of that. Because then I wouldn't know exactly who and who. So it's it makes it actually much easier for me to manage the leads, and then the leads can manage the other people. So it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I've learned something new today. I never knew I never knew you could do that, like with food. The way you usually know, like in a design team, you can have your lead design and then the other designers. I never thought about it that way.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah, yeah. We have really uh created because with my lead people, we have really created a very, very close bond. We're like a family. In fact, uh, one of um the guys passed away, one of the joinery guys passed away in November. It was really, really heavy for us. In fact, uh during when we were almost towards the funeral, the family called me to actually talk on behalf of the friends. So that was really major. That was really major. Set me aback, but yeah, yeah. So I'm really big with team, teamwork. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Okay, what would you advise then? Um aspiring India designers or other India designers like me on how to how to deal with foodies. Because no, the foodie topics in Kenya Kwanzaa. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Like Fundi did not come today. This and this and this. How would I?

SPEAKER_01 31:07

What's your tip? What's your trick? Because me, I really struggle with foodies. Yeah, I'm I'm not the best. I usually delegate that part.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

I think it's just being that close, like family kinda close knit. Because even I would ask maybe one fundie is at a different site that is not mine, and I ask him, I have an agent job, they'll actually come for my job. So I think the fact that we have become so close that it is not just a job, but it's also like a family that really has probably elevated everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

How do you set or um what's the word? How do you create that boundary where you know there's sometimes you can make people your family and then now they start taking advantage? Oh how how how how do you separate this caffeine line?

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Oh my gosh, people actually, my phone is no, there is no crossing. If you cross, or uh for me, I'm very like, do your job and do it well, and if you can't, then we move. So everyone knows that. Like, I have to be very strict on them. We might laugh today, but then the next day, if nothing, if something is done the wrong way, I will just move. I try not to hang on to people. So uh, because I mean it's like if electrician does something wrong, that's like a massive hole. Like, yeah, it's crazy. So for me, I have boundaries. Yes, we are family, but we need to manage our timelines, we need to give uh the best, um, the best that we can.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

So hypothetically, I'm your foundy, and let's say we've agreed what's the easiest thing to describe? Let's say time. Uh, we're supposed to be at splits at 9 a.m. I don't even show up. I come maybe at midday.

unknown 33:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

So I'm asking this so that we advise India designers on the ground because challenges that happen.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Yeah, I mean, you get quite a few of those, and they'll probably say something happened and all that. Um, it's just wow, that's that that really throws someone off. And especially when the client is there and the client is actually waiting for the food. So it really throws someone off. Um that that one, yeah, that one is something that we are still working on. Yeah, so I mean they have tr really tried, but it's just something that we are trying to work on timing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

So it's it's like maybe you give people warnings, or how how do you navigate it?

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Yeah, we g I give warnings, but I also call a lot. I call a lot. I'm like uko happy. I I start from 6 a.m. Like I just wake up and I start. Today we're going to meet at 8:30. Then I, you know, I just keep checking like where they are, at least it makes it much easier. And luckily, my foundies pick my calls. So that's a good thing. You know, it's one of those foundies are like, hey, yeah, I have another another job. She's calling, I won't pick. Luckily, they pick. Yeah, and they say, uh, today, probably in Mexico, there's something, there's something. Now that one I just sometimes you just yeah, there's nothing you can do.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah, so what I've taken away from you is that the tip is to like follow up before the time, for example. Just communicate. Communicate. Okay. Unakuja. I really struggle.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Sorry, I struggle with that because I think actually most of the food is really sometimes missed because they have more work to do, and they probably forgot that there's my job. So they were going for this job sometimes because they take too much on their plate, and there's this client who really wants something to happen. There's this, there's me. So I think sometimes just reminding them sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

You know, I never looked at it that way. That sometimes they forget. Some I usually look at it like ah, who do an atucheza?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Oh God, I know. Yeah, and just I think because I mean they are they really want to get that money. I mean, their work is more towards getting more money. So probably they are trying to get more projects and they overbook and all that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Something take away from your episode is to give them a bit more grace. I mean, let me not think of the worst, like is it just doing up or whatever. Akiwan is a qua mista how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I know they they probably have overbooked you or something.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah, okay. So you're now doing project after project. Have you ever been? Hey, but now this one is different. Let me go back to the advertising job. How was it navigating hierarchies? Because now this one is yours. You don't have anyone you're reporting to niwe betu. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Advertising, navigating hierarchy is quite hard. I mean, um, the top people uh do not want to be overtaken. Then advertising overtaking hierarchy was quite something. Let me just say it was quite.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

So how are you navigating it?

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Um, because uh advertising probably you you are probably let's say for example, you're the media planner, then you have a boss, then the boss has another boss. Then so advertising you would the media planner will do the work, share it with the boss, the boss will share it like that. So it's really hard for you to go up because you don't know who did that strategy, or you don't know who did that media plan, or you probably think maybe the director did it or something. So it's really hard for you to really go through that hierarchy.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

So, how was it adjusting from that setup to now your own thing? Because now you're used to all these people above you, and now actually in advertising, I really dislike delicating.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Like I love doing my job, like just me, myself, and I. Yeah, I think it's because uh advertising, you're given such big budgets, and if you go over budget or if anything happens, then it's on you. So I really tried to do the work myself and make sure that it's it was done right. Yeah, uh in interior, wow, doing it yourself, I think you'll crash. Yeah, yeah. So I really learned how to delegate. I learned how to delegate. Um, sometimes even if I am not there, I know there's a lead fundie who will assist me in delegating before I get there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Um you'll decide whether we keep this part or not. Okay. Let me ask. So the way you've structured your business right now, do you have like a design team, or you feel like you don't really need a design team? You need more on the fundies and the execution team.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Um I actually I am actually employing.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Oh, you are employing currently? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Um, I've tried to do it on my own. Nah, nah, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. I have someone who assists me with renders. Uh, she does part-time, she does an amazing job. In fact, uh, that will be my first person to hire. So we have worked with her for I think two years or one year. So it's the first person I'll hire. So I am hoping to do more hiring as we go and as we grow. Yeah. Yeah. So I I honestly no.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

But you've done it for so long.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

I've done it for so long, but I think I sometimes, because you come out from one project, like let's say, for example, you have a few, you have to start from here. Like I had okay, I had a project in Gatanga that's in Thika. Then I have another one in Rongay. I mean, you can't move from Gatanga all the way to Rongay. It it's just it's not it's not workable. So that um assistant will really uh I think it will change.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

What happens with clients who request? So I've had a client, let me say one, who was specific that he doesn't want me to send anyone. Yeah. Have you ever experienced that?

SPEAKER_02 39:27

I have, I think towards the end, it has happened. Um, luckily it was towards the end then of the project. Yeah, it was the end of the project. So at least it was easy for me to be there and make sure that everything was done. But hey, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

What do you think about that, Rachel?

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Oh, it's quite I think for such uh things it's good for the client to uh say it earlier. Then at least I increase my my fee because of the number of hours you're going to be in one place compared to the other. I think it's yeah, it's quite I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

It's quite yeah, yeah, quite because I also I think I'd also raise that like okay, then if I have to be there, it means I need to know ahead of time so that I also charge accordingly. You can't use the same rate, no, you know, because I'm also running to like 50 minutes and then I'm here recording podcasts. Yeah, then I'm doing this, but uh you know, yeah, it's quite hard.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Um, do you typically do mood boards?

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Also, you do both, you do the mood board, then you do the render.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Um we share with the client the renders, but I do the mood board and then she she now does the rendering.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Also, I don't share the mood board to the client. No, that's for in-house, yeah. That's just for in-house.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

At least the mood board now helps her create the render through all those um images and all that. Yeah, yeah. So I don't share the mood board to client, I just straight away share the renders. Is that how it's supposed to be?

SPEAKER_01 41:01

No, yours is is a nice approach. So personally, I don't do renders just because of the sheer amount of time. Yeah, it it takes a lot of time, and then typically I do developments. So now imagine all those spaces, it's it's a lot, and then it's really not even a me issue. Let me rephrase that. Typical uh developers want the billboard kind of renders. Yeah, I couldn't see quite a lot. Those ones need like a proper, like a marketer, like really, you know, it can't be just this one's for visuals, you know. So that helps. Yeah, that helps because rendering takes a lot of time. So, what I usually do, I do the mood boards, I select the materials, then I give the renderer both both the mood board and the materials, then they do the renders. But I share the mood board to the client. So before I go to file, I tell them, okay, this is the let's say layout, this is the layout, this is the mood board, this is what I'm thinking. Are you okay with it? These are the materials. So let's say I have the mood board and materials, and then they do the renders. But now I've been tagging or battling with it because I'm like, is it necessary to give it to the mood board to the client? You know, I've been wondering because that's another step that's taking also a lot of time because you know you have to perfect it. So I was asking just from just to know as an ATI designer how others do it.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Okay, I think it's sometimes it's a plus to share the mood board because sometimes you share render and they're like, that's not the direction I was going for. After you have spent you've spent quite a lot of time. So you go back to the drawing board, you ask the client to probably share their ideas and their opinions and all that. So sometimes it probably helps, especially if the client is very specific, like just getting to know exactly what they need. So that mood board actually really helps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Okay, what I'm asking, you know, this is also a learning experience for me. Yeah, just trying to see also how other designers in the field do certain things. Maybe my processes take a lot longer, hence, costing more and stuff like that. Because I do the mood board, then you choose the materials, then I supervise the renders with the external render. You know, all this is taking like a certain period of time. But the reason why I was doing the mood board is so that we don't fick our renders and you're telling them hey, once I don't like black, now I've put for you black cabinets and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

But I feel like I I tried I stopped sharing materials. Oh, really? Because sometimes clients will just be like, okay, renders, da-da-da. Okay, now I know exactly what I want. I've she shared with me the material, so I can just do it myself. So I feel like I've already done quite I've even done for them the sourcing. So I stopped I stopped sharing the material unless now there's a sourcing part before that. Yeah. Because I felt like there was a point where, oh, come show me. Come come we go see how this what do you think about this one? Oh, let's oh what do you so it's like she's also using my time to source the items. So I'm like, uh first of all, let's finish the render. Once we finish the render, now let's go source. As per the render. If you need anything changed, we'll come back to the drawing board. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Yeah. Anyway, you know, you adapt. You adapt to the ground, like okay, you realize okay, you're losing on this end.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah. I think Bobby, you get your clients 100% assured.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

No, let me tell you, it's challenging because uh just they are mentioning, I realize either I do too many details, you know, because sometimes my husband is like, babe, you things are too detailed, like you know, because I label everything I do. You know, he's like, Wow, people are doing it quick, quick, quickened, maybe because I keep asking him, um, how come others maybe are charging less, way less? Okay, there are those who are just geometric the industry, like you can't be charging like that. Yeah, you know. So I'm like, what is the reason why they're able to? Is it that we are taking too long to do A or B, maybe too many details, you know? Because I remember he was mentioning there's another one they're working with, and she just comes and designs on site, and I'm like, guys, yeah, she's like, Oh, the client keeps asking for he's not saying it's the best, but clients keep asking for like oh, send the doing whatever. It's like, no, I need to come into the space and feel how it's I'm like, I would never, my anxiety would I could never even I wouldn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Like even the thought process of achieving that.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yeah, so usually, like for me, I I do the layouts, then I do the elevations, then I do the detailed drawings for everything I label back and dime me. How many memo board is it? What color is it? Is it this? Yeah, so he's he's telling me. So details. Yeah, so do you do to that level?

SPEAKER_02 45:57

No, but there was a client recently who asked, um, why haven't you like um given details? That was actually the first client, actually, very recent. Like, why haven't you given details? So I had to go back. I did just uh like not in the renders, just uh different word document, and then I just shared the the uh direction that I feel the render is going to. Really? Yeah, that that was the only client, but I don't um label them as much anyway.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

We'll just continue. Let me show you something so that you in fact was telling myself I might need to just do these things because they seem just so unnecessary, but you know there are clients who also enjoy the details, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

So even for your foundies, you don't now the drawings I do the drawings right after. Oh, you do give them.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Yeah, now I do the drawings after after the render is approved, then I do the drawings after.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah, and then do you share to you don't share to the client?

SPEAKER_02 47:03

This you share to the now the I share to the founding, really, yeah. Because I feel like my clients are not so technical.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Like I'm like, will they really understand?

SPEAKER_02 47:14

Unless, but but maybe if it's um upscale project, like an apartment that you need to do fully. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

So how do you explain, for example, how do you explain or how do you refine? Um, you agreed to let's say um the 20 mmc are stolen in this, this, this. How how how do you prove? You know, because sometimes it's contentious.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Um, I think um for me I do after the renders is now when I do the drawings as pa pa pa.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

But that is for the fundi, not for the client.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

For the fundi for not for the clients, yeah. Yeah, I mean I'll share with them the material and see how the material is, but that's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

So you see, so it's right. I'm doing too much. You do it because I usually my document better, I'm giving it to you. It's like a hundred pages, very detailed.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

That's nice. It's maybe even asked.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

No, maybe it's unnecessary. So I'm also just trying to figure out okay, how how to still get to do it at a maybe shorter period of time and still achieve what you're doing. So you're still you you have projects that you finished. So, did it matter?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

It didn't matter, you get, yeah, yeah, but maybe commercial spaces might matter, or maybe different, yeah. Maybe, yeah, because this is just home and yeah, maybe commercial spaces might matter because they want to see where you're partitioning, where everything is being placed.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Okay, higher. Let me ask, how did you develop uh your confidence in presenting your ideas, you know, to clients? Especially because you mentioned you're introverted, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Um university really helped. We did a lot of um I I have a background of advertising and diploma, and then my degree is uh public relations and journalism. But my university we did a lot of presentation. I think even high school we did quite a lot of in uh presentation, so that gave me the confidence, and then also in advertising, we did quite extensive of presentation. It was quite a lot of presentation, so I think that that has helped me carry on to the interior design.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

So it wasn't really a tea, oh did you ever freak out when you started doing now your own projects and presenting to your clients? Did you ever feel like yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I did. I mean, my heart was pounding most of the time. Yeah, yeah. I I actually did.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Oh, but it's not like you're feeling like I I'm not, you know, will they ask for my degree? Will they have a crossing?

SPEAKER_02 49:59

No, it actually never did. Really? Actually, never did. Yeah, I think also because I have seen um like uh this international designer, interior people, most of them do not have interior design backgrounds. Most of them, I think Studio Maggie, I don't think they don't and by interior. I don't like most of these multimillionaire interior design companies, I don't think they have uh so I think that probably gave me the confidence because I I really watched a lot of uh their YouTube and all that, so maybe I was like, ah, maybe you really don't need and anyway. I'm not doing a wall, so you know, as long as I am on what I need to do, not out of my yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

But now that you're doing you're touching walls, but no, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Oh, you don't? No, I don't work with what it is, yeah. I work with what it is, and if I really need to, then I uh uh do a collaboration with an interior designer. So I I probably I am like okay, that wall probably can go down because I can see the pillars there is there, but I really don't.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

So we've had this debate on the podcast before. So would you call yourself an interior designer or an interior decorator? Yeah, I I am an interior decorator. Please tell the viewers what interior decorator is.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

It's more than it's like the soft finishing. That means tiling, um, what is it called? Tiling, uh, your couch arrangements and all that. That's about it. Interior designers, now you can go over and above, like walls, do all that. So I don't, I, I, I know, I don't. You don't? Yeah, I stick to my lanes. Yeah, and also I try as much not to take such projects even though I'm collaborating because I really don't want to do something that will come back to me. And I I'm I I'm not so sure. I'm not really I'm not very conversant with um the interior market, and I don't know who does what, who does what. I'm still trying to get there to at least know who I can collaborate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

So I get why you don't do the detailed drawings. Yeah, I get it. Which you is totally unnecessary. Yeah, well, because you know, for us, or rather for my projects, some of them even come and build like fake walls in the middle of the room, like fake decorative walls.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

So unless I would summer wood, but now bringing down a structure wall or that one you still need a structural engineer.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

No, no, yeah, even as an designer, you still need you can't just decide from your head to because if it falls down, yeah, that then yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so okay, okay. Give us um your insights or your thoughts or your tips on managing timelines and budgets because budget is one thing you've highlighted was a big struggle at the beginning of your journey. Yeah, it's budget is still a struggle.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

And I say uh it's still a struggle because um I think I I I'm trying to stop this because I go over and above my renders. Maybe I have um costed with my render, with what it looks at the render, but then I'll go back and I'm like when the project is towards the end, I'm like, hmm, maybe this would look better if I added this. So I really overstretch my budget sometimes, yeah. So that's something I really am trying to work on to stick to the render, to stick to the budget. I mean, it looks at the end of the day, it looks good, but yeah, yeah. But um, I think I've really learned a lot on the budget. I still need um, I would say I still need quite a few more classes on that. Um, in fact, I think one of the things one of the um I'm really looking forward, I'm I'm actually looking for a university to go to. I would want to really do interior design just to bring the business uh further than what I am doing.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

What's your expectation?

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Um, I really want to I I thought I could I I really want to go break that wall if I need to. Because I feel like I have really missed so many chances, so many clients because of the limitation of um what I can do uh from um university and all that. So because they ask for your papers, not because they ask for my papers, but I I could do collaboration with someone else, but I'm also I don't I'm also very laid back, set back, like I don't know who to go to. So I don't reach out to anyone, I just say no, I can't do it and move on.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

So let me ask a very controversial question. So do you think so? You think that going to uni will help? What will it help with?

SPEAKER_02 55:22

I don't know. I always think maybe it will help me with the structural side of it, part of it? Nothing like that.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

So you don't do like the theories of structural so interior designers are not structural engineers and they need the structural engineer to approve. You ask on your whatevers, can I they'll tell you yes, this is possible, this one is not. So you give your ideas. I want to do this, I want to move this around, I want to knock this wall, even if it's not allowed to knock from here up to here, you can't just do it yourself. Yeah, even if you go to uni, yeah, you you you still can not do it. So I don't know. I usually just struggle in in and out with the idea of uni and NTI design. It's good because papers, the papers neither here nor there, because not everyone really cares for them. It's unless you're doing bids. So bids require you to have papers, and those are the only um projects where I have been required to show that I have a degree. Only those ones, everyone else, like residentials, whatever's it's your portfolio that's true.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

I've never had anyone ask for papers.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yes, now my take is very controversial. Uni helps with other things, helps with things like group work, which you're already doing, helps with not really what you're learning because what you're learning is does nothing.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

Yeah, it's more, much more what you're learning in it's more okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

People don't kill me on the internet, but it's not what I think. Because when I think about it, maybe the things that I learned in uni, the theory parts that helped me. Maybe let's say color theory, let's say, you know, history of art, knowing like the different styles of you know, whether it's baroque, whether it's rococo, whether it's contemporary or whatever, that's what it helps. I'm trying to think because even like doing softwares, you really are not taught.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Oh, you are actually that's one of the main things I was actually no, you're not taught.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

You're you are given, you're given, okay, meaning Linda, okay, Mikki Tambo like in this, but you're given just a project, or you're just given introduction. Oh, by the way this is a whole, this is uh even like 30 minutes or something like that. And then you're told go and learn. You get so maybe if you just want to just maybe tick it off your list, but not go with the expectation that you're going to learn more than what you okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

I hear you.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

I hear you.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

I thought, I thought.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

So maybe me, I would advise someone who hasn't had the number of years of experience that you have had to go to uni. But you who already has the experience in advertising and the experience in whatever, maybe to do shorter. You know, advice doesn't fit. It's not a one size fit all. Maybe to do go to the Archicard class, someone who can teach you or a school or whatever, maybe the 3D Max, whatever software you want to learn. Learn the software separately, then learn the this separately, and then learn this separately because school, you'll you'll do the four years and nothing comes out. Okay, you'll you'll feel a bit wasted. This applies to someone who's just left, in my opinion. My opinion. Someone who's just left school because the other skills you're also gathering, you're learning the teamwork, you're learning to to do presentations, you're trying to manage your time, you're learning how to transnite and what that does to you so that you don't do it again, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:01

But the learning itself is not for you with your experience.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

Okay. So try other things. But if you still want your opinion, let me good advice. Let me not impose for you. Thank you. You're welcome. Sour. One last thing. Uh, what do you think the years of running your business um has taught you on hidden talents? What one hidden talent has come? You're like, ah yeah, maybe no, I know this. It can be either soft skill or something technical or however you want to go.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

I think I didn't know that I was a paper person. Really? Yeah. I I'm very laid back, like on my shell. Like I never knew that I would actually venture into something like this because I'm a very big uh introvert. Very, very so I think that's one of the things that yeah, like um just start. And um, I think well, maybe let's to do with um projects is just colour, like colour coding and just bringing everything together. Sometimes there's a part where you start and you're like, I will this project really work? And then you're seeing all these m materials that you actually um um what is it called? Sourced. Sourced and the client approved, and you're like, wow, will that really work? So I think just bringing bringing uh all fabrics, all textures, all paint colours, everything just to come together and integrate. I think maybe that's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Yeah. It's so amazing, actually, when I think about it, it's so amazing that you don't have the technical or rather the theoretical background of interior design. And the way you're so daring with colours and print. Actually, I thought my colours are very like Exactly, yeah. Um actually they're very oh okay. So what I've realized, yes, it's colour, it's not over there, it's not like I don't know if you know this designer, Kelly Wesler. Okay, yeah, has had like um yeah, yeah. So it's not that level of out there, but it's not me. I'm now here. I would do like all neutral. Let me insert photo of mine and as I'll insert so that you see hers being Isabel, so that you see the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So me, I I move colours, like neutral and very like um okay. In fact, almost all my spaces are just very zen, like in my homes, very like palette, neutral and all that, very neutral, very, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I in fact, like the interiors of my home are more now, the ones the built home, live my rental home, yeah, is more defined from the stone of the house. So that's what guided the whole entire entire. I I just walked around, I remember just driving around with that stone and be like, okay, what do I want to do with this? And just mixing things that look almost the same. Never know. I'll insert for everyone. So, anyway, take away from this video, there are different kinds of designers. Also try and understand the style that you like, what you enjoy, what gives you joy, and then choose an a designer that's appropriate to you. Don't just go to Abigail because she's an interior designer. Yes, I would know all these other styles, but because it's not natural to me, you know, I may not play with the colors the way Isabel would play with the colours, you know, or with the prints and stuff like that. So also just take some time, go to this uh interior designers' pages, their website, see the works they've done, see their homes if they've posted, and kind of see, okay, this is this my, you know, my kind of feel. Because you really want to also enjoy your experience with your designer. You don't feel like they're not getting it. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So last but not least, what tip would you give aspiring interior designers, uh getting in, or still in school trying to figure it out, or into your decorators? What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

I think there's space for everyone. I it might we might be many, but I think there's space for everyone. I think everyone has their unique taste, everyone has their unique design. Just come with what uniqueness you have, and I I feel like it will you'll run with it. So, yeah, there's space. I feel like there's space.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

There is space for everyone. Yeah, in fact, that's the title for your episode. I just thought about the space for everyone. Yeah, don't feel pressure and also don't feel like, oh, I want to copy Isabel. You know, there are things you can say, I like this and this about her. Let me try and explore if that's my thing, you know. But you need to just be authentic to yourself. Anything that you want to add before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

No, no, it was a joy. Uh-huh. Thank you. You're most welcome. I hope the other interior designers, the aspiring, let me say the aspiring interior designers will really um go out there, um, what is it called? Start their business. I know there are so many people who have actually come to my inbox. I wish I could train. I wish I could have time to train. That's one, like I've gotten so many people asking if they can train, if I can train them, but I've not had time. I hope that one day I'll be able to train them. But yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

I'll call you, I'll call you for something else. Of the camera. I'll call you for something else that maybe we can we can partner because I want to do with a couple of people. Let's see what that can do. Cindy, so please follow her pages, are inserted here. Follow, like, subscribe, comment, share her work. Cindy, tell her she's doing a good job, critique, but just don't be a bully. Yeah. And thank you so much for watching. Please follow, subscribe as well, and see you on the next one.