SPEAKER_01 0:00

They usually say your uh quote unquote destiny helper is there every day, not on the day you decide to show up, giving discounts or or doing extra say maybe you're doing a project and you say what I end up fannyabore. Trying to build up on when you're handling a construction project. What it does is that you don't have uh it might mess up your resources for when an emergency comes up, when a contingency comes up. So from then on I I decided that there is no giving extra unless to me to sawach.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Welcome to the Studio Little Bold podcast, where vision meets execution, creativity finds clarity, and mentorship unlocks potential. I'm your host, Abigail Ostidiana, and this is the space for designers, dreamers, and change makers looking to build bold ideas and shape the future of interior design. Hi guys, welcome back to our channel. Today I have Fred on set, and I saw something interesting about Fred. Fred, yes, I saw something interesting. Nan Takuliza, Willifanya Mechanical Engineering, and then you moved to ID. Yes. So before we pivot into that, thank you so much for coming to our podcast, for being willing to share your story, and I can't wait to hear all the good stuff. Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Okay, as you had, my name is Fred Udiambo, interior designer. I did one year at mechanical engineering. Yes. I don't mention that so often. Yeah, I was trying to find myself. It's a thing of uh you know, you know the kind of dream you have, but I didn't have enough exposure to know where I fall. Yeah, so now I'm in design.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Okay. Let me ask about that before we go too far. The mechanical engineering, who made you choose it?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

I chose it myself.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yes, because initially uh as a as a child, I was drawing a lot of cars, sketching a lot of cars. So I had this idea of wanting to like create and build cars. Yes. So I didn't know that I was supposed to be in design. I thought it was something mechanical, and then you go there, you figure out that the mechanical is just uh in fact, we started off with pure maths, you know, stuff like that. And then you just look at the curriculum and you're like, um, my gift, quote unquote, is not really being harnessed here. Yeah. How did you even if at the time I didn't know it was a gift? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

How how how did your folks take you wanting to change? First of all, as a lucky angular doofatole.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

First of all, as a engineering, that's that's a big problem. You know? And uh yeah, my dad was uh disappointed. And then uh I went into design. What happened was uh I just crossed over to the other side, it's University of Nairobi. I went with my sketches and stuff like that. So that office where I got to, the two ladies that were sitting there, the moment I dropped the sketches there, they were like, We're going to we're going to take you in. And then what happens after that is that you find similar-minded people. That is very important for growth. And so now you can locomote.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yes, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So from there you can move.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So choosing that design and having the sketches was virtue of being just near the campus or near the faculty.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

No, I looked for the school.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Oh, you did?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, and then I figured out there's a cross on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

So, why not architecture?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Why specifically you get because um, you know, it's still on exposure. You are drawing cars, you come to design school, there's a person who's just drawing eyes, another person is doing portraits, and then now when you come together, all of you you now try to figure out where you're going to go, and then you find out that some people are going to graphics, others are going to product design, interior design, and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

So, what actually by what point did you know I'm going to stop this? Was it at the end of that year, Ama?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Just when you started to stop engineering day one.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

One hour into it.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

So, why did you waste waste your time already?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Well, okay, you can call it fear, but I can say um uh how do I say it? The way I was brought up as a child, I did not have the courage to express myself much. I feared I had fears of being a people pleaser as well. So you can see how deep that went. So I just tried to look into it and see day by day, and the more I studied, I was seeing it's not my thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So when did you eventually then have the courage? Because now you have this.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

When I knew that at this point the the laws of uh at I think University of Nairobi and how they operate can allow me to now shift from one course to the other. So I waited up to that time and then I shifted.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

So when you did shift, you m started again.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yes, I started afresh.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

This was jabbo para parallel or jab? Parallel. Oh, it's parallel. Also, it wasn't at your big difference now. You have to start writing and explaining.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Well, let me just say God's favor was upon me. Yeah. For those who are spiritual, that is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Right now, before we even go too far, in interior design, what are you focusing on? I know we had a guest who really made us laugh over here saying, What are you specializing in as an interior designer? But I'll still ask. You get how do people know you?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

How do people know me?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

As an inter designer.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Okay. Now, uh there is arts and then there is sciences, is it? And then so in arts, kuna wapishi, and they are architects, sort of, and they are us designers, they are musicians. All of us on this side were not uh science people, quote unquote sans. Um there's usually a special thing, it's like a different musician from another one, or coastal cuisine from maybe Somali cuisine or Indian, something like that. And so for me, I think uh um it's uh my style is a bit um many people, architects and designers, designers love to do the simple contemporary, you call it contemporary when when you are speaking in design terms. I love to be very expressive in my art. So I come off as an artist who is a designer. I'm not just a designer by training, but I'm an artist first and then I'm a designer. So what happens is that that really gives life to what I do, it gives uh impact to it. It it like creates sort of like uh if we become many who are doing what I do, say I I I am able to replicate my style and people start to copy it, it will become like a quote unquote movement. So I think what clients would identify with when they when they work with me is uh the way I express my my art into it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

So what would that look like? What would that look like typically like on a project? Let's say this studio.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Like this studio.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, so I'm your client. What would I be expecting to see?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Uh lots of uh I love LEDs, and um I love wood and finish, and then I love to play with curves, and I love to explore geometrical shapes. I think that's more like what you're asking.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

That's on the on the actual finishes, like on the walls or on artwork?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Walls, ceilings, yeah. So this one when you hear it, you have to see photos to be able to understand. So you'll definitely see photos.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Oh, yeah. We will insert some photos here, yes, so that we can understand. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, the moment you see them, it will just click. And the thing is, many people, architects and and designers, they quote unquote places. People don't have to explore because these foundies are they going to customize this or do whatever? So people go with if they can find prefabricated stuff and then they create compositions out of it. Some people have strengths in creating uh spaces uh by using like matching hues well, uh, and textures, you know, and fabrics and stuff like that. Yeah, for me, I love to play with the 3D elements of it. Yeah, so that's my that's what is different if you say hire me over somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

So do you focus on residential, do you do commercial, or do you do akila kitu?

SPEAKER_01 9:10

No. What happened was I was employed for about six and a half, seven years. And then um I have done hospitality restaurants, a few clubs here and there. And uh there was one microbrewery we designed, but it was not completed, and then offices as well, residential houses. Did I mention that? Yes, uh residential houses as well. Yeah, so I don't like necessarily specialize.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

You do all.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

I do all depending on the brief, depending on the briefing. But what I'm trying to run away from now is uh clubs.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Why are you running away from that?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Because I'm becoming a new man, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Okay, I'm changing.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Oh, so so I'm seeing them in a different perspective. So I want to focus on every other thing, but not clubs.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Oh, I get it. So maybe from the gym, like for me, he I would never catch any space I've done with geometric shapes on the ceiling. Never. Never ever. So, but now when I hear the kind of projects like you typically do, I get it because hospitality and maybe clubs, and you can't have a club with a flat ceiling, like it makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, so whether it can be a flat ceiling and then a lot of branding, you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

So it would it really wouldn't, because you want to look at everything, you want to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yes, yes, yes. So lots of shapes, and then just because of being an artist and what you love to to express yours to express when you're doing your art. Yeah, that's why I do a lot of three-dimensional uh geometrical shapes.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Do you do paintings, artwork, sketches, things for your projects? Like, okay, you've been commissioned to do this project and you actually do art for that project.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

No, like art art to put artwork to put on the wall.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

On the wall, maybe sculptures, anything like all forms of art, you don't? I don't. I don't I don't do that here. So you just finish your artistry now on the finishes themselves.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, either from hand sketches and then you take it to the card software. Uh you begin on the architectural biased one, and then you take it to the more animation biased software, and then you create your renders there. And then, of course, I'm also a project manager and I also execute as a contractor.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

So please tell the viewers currently are you employed? Are you running your own business? Are you employed inside hustling?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

So, currently, uh, for the past uh four years, I'm self-employed. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

What's the name of the no self-employed doesn't necessarily have to have a registered business. Is your do you have a registered business?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yes, we do. We are running a company with uh a friend from campus. So since he's so much my friend, I postponed opening my own company because we have a good working relationship. So we've been doing this thing together, and then um sometime this year I'm going to now do my own company. But we're we have worked together for for years. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Okay, so you're more or less working on his business.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Registered, no, registered company, uh, three directors.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Oh, okay, okay, okay. So you want to get out?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, because we're not not it's not because of why, uh it's just it's something we have been uh discussing with him. When he started off, uh and then I just tagged along, and then he's like, hey, I don't want to register. I'm like, yes, I'll register. But uh a lot of collaborations, and then we we don't have any qualms. So we just push it. Some meetings I go with him, some projects we pitch together, some I go alone. So it's like a comfort zone. It's like a comfort zone of sorts. But uh since it's running well, you know, if it's working, I I didn't dare fix it.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

So tell the viewers which uni you went to, how long was your course? So you did the one year, then the next course was Bachelor of Arts Design Four years, yes, and then I specialized in interior design. Yeah, okay. How do you think? So, when you were in Campo, did you do um internships? No, did you do attachments on campus?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, well, since I was uh in another course, I didn't go to attachments up until fourth year.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, but another course house you already moved, you already moved.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

I had already moved, so that means like you're coming into something that you you don't even you didn't even know existed. Yeah, so you just went through all the way to fourth year, yes, all the way to fourth year, and then that's when I started attachment and then eventually got employed after um I think after seven months of attaching. Oh we didn't when when I was doing this attachment, it was not even like an architectural farm or a design farm. Someone had a project there. It was doing a hotel, so we were there just trying to work things, you know, fix this room, show us ideas for this one, that other one. And then eventually the opportunity came, so then you got employed. That's when you started to learn. Yeah, we were three of us, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

How was this first attachment?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Definitely you don't learn much. Yeah, that person does not have your interests at heart, they just want to see the hotel coming, and it's not wrong for them to do that, you know. But since they're benefiting, so new jip. Yeah, ideally, you should attach yourself to either an architectural farm or a design farm or a construction farm. And then recommended you if you can work in a place where you consult and also work in another place where you a place where you're you do construction where you where you're doing consulting work, okay, okay, okay, okay. And then you also do uh construction work. Yeah, that forms like an hour full professional.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

But now you you still stayed there nonetheless with uh we hadn't yet.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Uh when we were there, we were like three of us, we hadn't gotten a place, and then we got a place.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

So from also you moved after so my impression was we hadn't got an employment yet. Also, my impression was you got the attachment there, and then you got employed there. You got them.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

There were some monies here and there, but you are so uh that's not employment. Yeah, so when we got the opportunity now, we we started working as what does employment mean to you? Employment, yeah. Look at it this way: this is a hotel someone is building. You people are designers. He wants his building to be complete. So when you tip in ideas, as long as for him he's benefiting, you guys, and you're getting small monies here and there, you you just do whatever you do. But employment, speaking of a professional, this is why you attach yourself to a company that does what you studied, and they have the standards of uh this practice that you are going into. So when you get into this one, there is training. Yes, and then for training, there is uh there is a standard, you know, mode of um let me call it payment or remuneration. Uh there's a salary in short, and there's tax to the salary. You see that that is work. Oh, any hobby?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Do you how how was the payment actually for this this hobby one? Yeah, it was it every week, you wake up to the randomizer, milestone. Um, so meaning the entrusted was there a senior person supervising you guys with just the three interns, the three attaches?

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Um, senior person, there was one of the hotel managers. I don't know what what he was trained in, but apparently he taught us quite some things.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Hmm. Not related to the construction though.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Related to the construction.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

And he was not a designer, not an architect.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

What would you remember any one lesson that you learned that was like, hmm, this person knew this and they are not?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

I can't remember because now I've added so much knowledge to it. But just general, like even space planning. You know, like for example, you're doing a uh a double sink for his and hers. There's small things like this is 80 centimeters for one person and the next one space it like that. Those details.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

But didn't you know some of these metrics, you know, like metric handbook, is of it, so makpo.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Oh, that's what I'm saying. I can't remember some of them. But unaju and attachment, they're those things you run on site. That's the one I could recall off my head. Oh, okay, got it.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Part of the things he was so seven months later, you guys move, all of you, or just you?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Uh coincidentally, all of us to the same place, different places.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Or everyone, just different places. So, this next place, uh, how long do you stay?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Sorry?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

How long do you work at this place? The employment?

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Uh, the first one I did three and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

What was shocking now that you're from this hotel? Should I say freelancing? Yeah, freelancing, sort of, sort of, and then you're moving now to employment in a place that has structure. How was it?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Well, first of all, um at that point now uh there's a salary and then you report to work every day. Now you're wearing suits Monday to Thursday, a tie rather.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I was going to wonder which design firm needs you to wear a suit.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Monday to Thursday, yes. He said this is this is design, this is not art. You'll not go to government with your t-shirts and you know all of this.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Oh, those were the kind of clients you had.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Uh that's what the boss told us. Just the brief that you got the first day on his desk where he was seated. Gentlemen, and there was one lady. This is design, this is not art. You come here, you wear a tie. Except for but for me, I loved it though. I I have like I had 32 ties anymore. A lot of trousers.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

No, it's because you remember the 32 ties, it looks like those are just exchanging the ties, the trousers is the same. Also, now you're just prepped, now you're ready to work.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah, yes, we're working. That's where we learned how to produce, you know, photorealistic images, then a few plans, uh, like drafting plans differently differently from like advanced just learning. Because I think the training at the university it has a ceiling of sorts. You are taught how to some people say you are taught how to be a manager. Um, you understand the way a space a space is supposed to function, but then when I when it comes to the technical uh matters, yeah, that one you get from the companies, the internships and yeah, all that thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

And all of that.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

What was shocking at this place in the I was not shocked, I was very happy actually.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

What was happy? What was surprisingly good then?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Surprisingly good that finally now you are you are at a desk and you're handling this project and that other one other one, and there's someone above you, they can teach you one or two things, you're going to site and seeing this, like your knowledge is adding up and also the experience, and it also looks good on your your profile, you know, you can now see it's here, and then there's also they call it fear of missing out. That that one is now gone.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, why because sorry? Why because other people were employed proper or missing out?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Not all of them, not all of them, even.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

What are you fearing on missing out?

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Uh you know, so now remember you have left engineering, yeah. Yes, and then the existing you are doing, it's not clear, but now you're employed.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

So you can tell your folks Angalian is as that and then they can see you wearing half coats, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Then you you are starting to change, you're adding weight.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Hey, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

And also I was I was very skinny. I was very skinny. And then also another thing is that uh you you're meeting a few clients here and there, so like it just looks like your career is now starting to build. Yeah, that's that's that's the happy part of it. Did you have uh on this other side there was nothing a palam ku tele mnamalisa matoka? Any time uh like in evil two, there's nothing different, you're not you're not getting any referral, you're not getting it feels stagnant.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

But you can feel the referral this place for employment, you're getting referrals.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Not referrals. What happens is even people who are employed, by the time you're leaving employment, when I took contracts. Okay, yes. These people usually as years go, they're also growing where they're going. These are the same people that call you and you figure out that you have been working uh by yourself for what uh 10 years, you know. Because of these contacts you made, this place where you're employed, you are showcasing what you do. And you are also with similar-minded people, but not in a school setup with people who are also trying to build their career. So you're you can see the skill and you can see the movement.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

So it's also like you're in a consistent interview because you're not only interviewing the people like being interviewed by the people you're working for, also the people you're working with, you know, they can also lend, you refer you or you just jump ship to another. I never thought about it that way.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah, it happens, yeah. They usually say you are uh quote unquote destiny helper is there every day, not on the day you decide to show up. So that place where you're employed, you're there week one, week three. That opportunity or that future you're trying to look at when you're building it inside, what you're building inside is visible to everyone. And so your environment really picks that up. Oh, I never. So that environment of employment was rightful for the growth that I have now and the offices that I've worked into, the projects that I've handled, the private contacts that I have worked with.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Maybe let me touch on that a little bit just for our viewers. Maybe would you give a tangible example of what that would look like? Because even me just to think about it at the point where I was employed, I was not really looking at it like, oh, everyone is watching. You know, everyone is watching. Yes. You're not thinking, you're just thinking this one is watching, you're not thinking this one's a watching. And everyone can help you. You move to this other place, they'll hear another opportunity, they'll tell you, Oh, by the way there's an opening here. Do you want? You know, but if you are not you are slacking and stuff, they will not recommend you.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yes. Yes, so that that's very key. You are showcasing, you are showcasing. So that was uh it's it's a good environment for that for growing.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

So for every episode, I take something away and I take from yours that in whatever capacity you are at, people are watching.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Even the people who don't look like they can actually help you towards your future. They're also watching. Like, for example, when you come here, there's a watchman at the gate, is it? And that watchman sees everyone differently. And I do a women as I'm too much, so it's the same thing, different hierarchy.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Everyone is watching. Actually, that's a good one. Everyone is watching, and maybe let me encourage you whatever you do, just do it well, do it with excellence. Everyone is just watching. You never know who's going to open another door for you. You never know if your colleague, this one that you're feeling like you don't want to help them. Yes. You're feeling like Mr. Sandy or Najua, why are you disturbing me? You do not know.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

And actually, yeah, and the funny thing about uh growth is the people, in fact, when you are when you are now moving up levels, sometimes the person that takes you to the next level and introduces you to those names you had never thought of. Some of them can be annoying. So the moment you see that just remember this could be one of those one of those people that are taking me to the next level. Yeah, they would have a personality disorder, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I think that's difficult to put in practice, but I hear Adam. I'm just taking that advice because woof. Yes, you know. I I actually saw something recently on social media. There's this lady who does wedding planning, and she's giving a story of a young planner who was starting out, goes to an experienced one, and she's like, Oh, I'd like to learn. Could you just can I just even follow you around? I just shadow and see what you're doing, how you're doing it, so that I can pick a few one, two, and three. I don't want to be paid. It's not an interest. I'm just shadowing, just to see how work is and how you go about. So this lady was like snobbish, like, no, like what what benefit in essence are you bringing or adding to value? Nonetheless, the young design, the young planner um just kept at it, learning, doing whatever, and now went on to social media. Now she's growing exponentially, she's doing a really good job, she's getting referrals. So now I'm sassaguji because now everyone is going to this young, very talented, young, starting with young, starting with young, talented, and then she's doing a really good job. Guess what? This older, experienced um planner now reaches out to her and is like, oh, okay, now can we do collaborations? You understand? Yeah. The lady is like, no, no, no, how could some materially? You know, then you'd think that um she'd be happy, like, oh my god, I reached out. She's like, No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

No, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

You understand?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

What happened to the old one? Huh?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

You know the way you get comfortable, you know, you can get comfortable. Yeah, it happens. Yeah, you can get comfortable and say, Oh, but um, I'm the meaning right now. What are you telling me? You imagine you'll always be here. And you think people are not growing, you do you think people are not learning, people are not, you know, evolving. You're imagining the person that you saw as an intern three or four years ago will be the same person now at aikufikiama kukupita. You understand? Yes. So now that was the like the perception, like, what what value are you adding to me? And no, yeah, and plus being rude about it, you know. So I will take that away and always remember when I see episode, I'll say everyone is watching. So then you you're here at this place. Um, what did you say? You said you are not surprised, it it was good, you're meeting people, you're creating contacts, you know, you're networking. Yes. Um, were you presenting to clients at this point? Or are you just tagging along?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Okay, now I worked in uh two companies, so that was the first one. Um we allowed to mention names. No, okay. So that's the first company.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Um just in case, just in case maybe we say something contentious and then they're like, Oh, yeah, me to be a china.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Oh no, no, my my bosses, all of them very bright, very bright people and very supportive people. All of them, all of them. I actually visited uh my first boss uh recently, can't remember he used to have some nice linen shirts, you know. Sir, this time when I come back, I can tell you, you know, I used to admire your linen shirts. Oh yeah, that guy, that guy cared for us like like our like we were his children.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yes, and then the training as well, and he maintained a very high standard. And then from there, uh there's the second company. So just bring back your question and then I go.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Um, are you presenting at any point?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

So now when I went to this second company, in the first one, I I used to just issue my drawings and then you'd go for meetings together, and then you find maybe your senior is presenting. Now in the second one, we started with training, and then after that, the company let me not say assumes, but from there you are an adult, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Wait, how long is this training running for now?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Um do you remember? Not so long.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Was it months? Was it years?

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Just a few months.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Or months, not even weeks.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Just a few months, and then you know, since there was a lot of support in the office, you could always come to ask someone for something. I remember after that training, a project came in Kakamega, and uh my boss never came to that project again. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, he's um from there we just picked from there. These people were that good, like they trained the people uh uh that were above us, and those people trained us, so we just went like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

It's trickling down, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

So when you when you meet with a boss to discuss a project, uh you you when when you spend 15 minutes with this guy, everything is just correlating. Sorry, everything is just correlating, and so there we we we just dived in. A project comes, you're there alone, and I remember there's a guy who used to tell me that is your baby. This is your baby.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Oh, but when they train you, let me just ask for people who may not understand how training in inter design firms or architectural farms go. No, most training is conference, you know. So explain to viewers what training looks like in the context of an inter design. Very gladly.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Let me even sit like this now. Training, um mostly from design school, mkingia first tier, you find a lot of artists, and then also you find people hang on a little.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Is there okay? It's okay. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah, I was given a quote unquote proximity. Oh so you find artists mking first year, and then you want to take this in design school nasema kuna kuja, they have talent. It's not like engineering where people have uh in a they have qualifications like how ni wasomi. Talent. And then there are also other people who come into design school and they're like, So, in first year, if maybe if I was say the dean of studies in a school, you are finding uh people who they are like children and you want to harness this talent that they have. So now let's go to the question: how does training look like in a design school? In a design, not in a design farm. In a design farm. That's usually the first drawings, drawing standards, uh, production of plans, uh, production of elevations. Now those are details. We call them construction documents. How to produce construction documents and then you come to understand that you need to know the technical or the technicalities of building so that you can be able to produce these drawings. And now drawings in design are uh in two two, let me say in two parts. So there are people who are in visualization, and then there are people who do technical let me say three parts. There are people who are in visualization, architectural visualization, then there are people who do technical drawings, and then there are people who design and they let other people do the technical drawings that the foundies or the contractors are going to use. So if you are fortunate enough to work in a good company, you'll be exposed to all of these three. But you'll find designers don't necessarily delve into architectural visualization. They hire someone to do that because you have come to make a space work, to make it look aesthetically pleasing, to to make the clients dream match with the budget, to come and make it also, let me say, to work out the logistics of it. It's a whole problem-solving entity. So this training will will introduce you to the card softwares. Uh the second company I worked when you they also used to make you sketch. When an intern comes, two lines for two weeks. So that training makes you able to make sense of say there is a four million here and we want a space. This training enables you to be able to produce documents that can make um how do we call them? When there is a project, the project team, engineers, quantity surveyors, uh, subcontractors, main contractor, and the client. You are producing documents that can be able to make uh all of these parties of the project team bring their input and then make these funds go into purchasing of the various materials and all of the specifications and the personnel so that they can come into this schedule of works and produce your space.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

So are you being trained at your desk? Yes. Are you it's at your desk? So what the viewers would be expecting is you're just being trained at your desk, you're not being taken somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

No. First of all, at your desk, and then when these other people who are doing projects are going to the projects, you accompany them. So when you go there, you learn. You learn how to do minutes and documentation. You also see matters on site in a car, in a cave, you know. So when you're back to your drawings, you you you start to pick them up. So that's the training. Part of it quadresk, you also go out. So it's all inclusive, like you are put in the schedule, and then now you start to grow.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

So your baby you are given at how many months in?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Uh was it uh six months, I think.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Six months, so six months of training, and then you're given Shikig project.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

But they are not saying that it's going to be six months, like you just go with the way you're seeing Uanashika and Ashika. Oh, okay, depends on okay, okay, okay. Yeah, but anyway, most people, not even most, everyone used to just to just uh like get it and then you dive in. Oh like I say my bosses were that good. Yes, you are really, really even the one who whom is not at the office uh with you most of the time, architects, and then after two years, kumojo kakanae for 30 minutes, because training, design training, uh interior design specifically, you are you are like an architect. You know, the people assume that architectata taitwa. No, designers, interior designers and architects, the way we deal with the inside. And if we have maybe a suspended floor, we'll call the structural guy and the engineers to give the input. Even the architects, they do the building in terms of space planning, uh, and then the overall look, and just follow it the way you can do it, and then they also let the engineers and every other person do the input, even the costing. Just the same way we do. So we are interior architects. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Specify you are you are into decoration. No, no, no, no. I had a guest yesterday who said I'm not an interior designer, I'm an interior decorator, and she's very interior decorator because she also hasn't done school and she said she started hers out of passion.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Passion. And ladies go so well with it. Actually, on a personal level, I believe that uh Nivile 2, my projects don't uh the most of the projects I'm getting don't really require that level of detail. Yeah, but there's that gap. I would definitely call an interior decorator.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Oh, you never go to the end like that?

unknown 38:45

Ah, pan.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Where do you usually leave it?

SPEAKER_01 38:48

No, you women are special. You interior decoration.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Wait, so for your project you never reach till the setting up and styling?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Uh how much setting up?

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Everything like done. You guys are ready to just walk in and use.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

I think up to furniture. Oh women have something when it comes to interior decorating.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Wait, wait.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Same restaurant, uh uh semi restaurant. By the time the furniture is in, I use my paintings and like the way you have done this, you have put even some books. Uh many a times I find clients when you they have their wife.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Oh, who'll come to finish?

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Uh Alijanza Kuleta is my painting. Oh king yet, the the wife was there.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, but women have uh have uh the the when it comes to interior decorating, you women are a bit uh you have an upper hand in that. I've never done and when you come and also matters of colour, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I've never done a project that reaches up to furniture if you don't do the styling, so it either ends at we are not doing the furniture, so structure too, like how the finishes are clean, you move in with your furniture and everything, or the way okay. I've never hired so other people, other clients want different things.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

When you interview other other men, okay. I'm not trying to make it like a gender balance, eh? But for us, in the comments, to kita fill up. Ah, that's right. We gone. Hey, no one go like we go. Hiya, like the space is functional. We have done the electricals, we put the ceiling like I think has many attract very oh it depends.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

That's what they actually do.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

But they're also happy. See, for example, I just finished an office space uh this December. And we we started off uh Umengia Pale, it's it's a warehouse, eh? There's a suspended floor, you can atiles office here. So I need to put a ceiling overhead, I need to put a structure so that it can hold the ceiling, I need to do the electricals and bring in the lighting, and then I need to do partitions and then painting and then window film. By the time the window film was up, they had an end of year event. You just see photos that the director is is is posting, you know, and even the colleagues when they are doing the marketing, uh maybe it's uh um those like when it's end of year and you're wishing people happy festive season, stuff like that. And you see the photo of the office that you did, and you left it at the window film.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Hella. Why do you think that's the case? Okay, other than the gender bias, do you think there's another reason?

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Um okay, let's not call it a gender bias. That's my my weakness, and and I'm just not interested in that. I feel like let someone take that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

So does the client know that? Is it in your contract that I will not give up to here?

SPEAKER_01 42:03

They don't even ask for it. If they did, I would probably I would probably go into it.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Also, there's no even contractual issue. The client knows that you are finished, you on your other end.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

But the parable comes like sometimes like wundo jam petition.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Oh, so they're not expecting styling.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

No, they expect it, but you figure out that the more you are presenting even your ideas, some you see this art thing and this thing of trends. Um, not all of these doctors and engineers, they don't have like the whole picture of it. They just know they love good things in life. So it will go as far as you will take them.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah, so that's what I'm asking. So you don't continue taking them and they don't expect you to continue taking them there.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

They don't expect it, and then sometimes you're given like a budget. Oh, so budget. If they want something else, then you you you come in here.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Okay, so you're also working within the budget. So the budget has told you after I put for you just the sofa, I don't care. Like, I'm not I can't put artwork from my house.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

No, I usually propose artworks, uh, but no, there's a level of decor in you find even ladies presenting fabrics, nini nini. They customizing I think there's there's a there's there's an additional level in you I have not unlocked for interior decoration.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Yeah, hey, because the way we are talking here, I'm just feeling like guy, you've left the site like that and unfinished. Well, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

But again, uh I think one thing is oh, sorry. You remember when you started this interview, I told you about uh my approach and the way I love to play with shapes. You find that by the time I have brought in my elements, I feel satisfied. And I feel like I've now positioned it to somewhere where a decorator should take it. Okay, and I'm also eager to see what a decorator will do with it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 43:57

And I'm actually very eager to see it, yeah. So Like memalizar fisi, and then you go away for uh uh maybe three months. I'll do then on gazu. Oh I also feel good uh seeing them prosper with that.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

You know, I've never thought of even just separating on my contract. You know, I go all the way, all the way to the end.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

So you are you are decorating and you're also even checking, for example, you know the AC guy.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Everything from start to everything from start to end, from the concept to the detailed drawings to the shop brings, my elevations, shop rings that are to be done by the cabinetry guys, the joineries, all the doors I've done, supervising them, coming to check for installations, purchasing, I travel even abroad, we buy the items, we bring them back, I buy plus the deco items, we style them and we finish. So, mine either the client, my contract says stop at finishes.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

But the moment we go into furniture to normalize our yorte, but I never thought about and then I've also found clients that I'll get the furniture myself many a time.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Okay, I I also so me, I leave it at at finishes. Finish. Yeah, for those ones and if at finishes, yeah, like that. But once I touch furniture, I don't just do the furniture and leave.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

But the thing is, the the more I'm continuing to to work in this industry, I'm going to begin to meet them.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Who?

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Uh the clients that would require these uh interior decorations.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

We are not even even convincing. You know what I'm I'm thinking? Because typically, like for me, honestly, my strength really is not on. I can do it. I'm a designer, I can do end-to-end. But my passion and strength is not in the decor part of it. Like, oh my gosh, let's put the flowers and let's do the is really me for me. I usually are more passionate about how do I make this space functional. Um not long-lasting. I'm really not for trends. What was that? Timeless. How am I making it functional? How am I making it practical? How am I making it seamless? And so that when you come with whatever you want to come with, whether you want to proceed with me or not, it doesn't matter. Like, but the space itself, the flow is good, the circulation is good. Yes, whatever you put can work with it. Yeah, it's not like now I have really crazy colors and maybe crazy features and structures on the wall such that you bring other things and it's like, hi, what's happening there? You get so when I'm just listening to you, I'm like, how actually I can just be removing that part of the coup and bringing in someone who is more passionate about deco and telling them, where to partner me alfika here.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

You know, first of all, I'm surprised you're not really passionate about the core as compared to the other part. Oh, as a woman. I thought, yeah. As a woman, yes, and okay, not only as a woman, but even for you, not as a woman. The way I'm seeing your space here.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

It looks properly. But you know, this is just a studio.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yeah, it's just a studio, so I'll assume you're probably passionate. Imagine if it was my studio, there would be a blue LED here colours. Okay, not subtle. Yeah, but I love it.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

You cannot do even unless it's warm, just the warm light ille. I would never not a lot. Never. Maybe I'll think about it.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Um you know of something they call daytime running lights? Have you heard of it? Have you seen like a Range Rover? And then the lights are off, yeah. And it's it's daytime. But then there's also another Range Rover that there's just another, there's like a strip that is lighting.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

The one that's inside, the ones that are usually inside the cars.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Uh no, just at the headlight. It's not for it's not for seeing, but it's just for you to see the artwork around. There's like a line that is lighting.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Like my car. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

You see that line. So that LD. Hey, light can also add some some beauty. Yeah, that's why I love LED. There's a touch that it brings to it. The same way someone else would say they love to put wood to their spaces. Someone would love to put uh maybe special paint. Many or most of my spaces, I love to add at least a small hint of colour using LEDs. Kid dog to see me. Just a little. In fact, concealed, not like direct.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Ate you concealed.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Who paint concealed?

SPEAKER_00 48:45

I I I like concealed, but I like so for all my projects, I want to have the different kinds of lighting. I want the ambient lighting, all of them. Yes, but I don't want them in colours.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

In colours.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

I don't want them in colours. I don't want even a pink, I don't want to see blue, I don't want to see purple, I do not want colours.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Because depending on the project.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

It doesn't matter the project. But my house. But you know, I've never done like a club or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

So no clubs, clubs. Clubs not colours. Clubs, depending on the owner, clubs can can be a headache sometimes. We find the managers in the meeting, Afundis in the meeting. And I'll be up at black. They they have funny briefs. But anyway for clubs, the LEDs.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Oh, sorry, I cut you short when you're saying about your house in your house?

SPEAKER_01 49:35

I LED is a must.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Where? I will explain like where?

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Like where? See? What's ceiling? Okay, ceiling. Coloured.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Colored purple. Hi!

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Or yellowish or white.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Me, all my things need to feel very subtle, very calm. My spaces need to be, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Okay, I'm a bit expressive.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Hey, you mentioned actually. Sam Nona. We are all different designers. I'm a bit expressive, that's why. You're right. And you did mention that at the beginning of the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah, and then when you find a client definitely who is uh subtle like you, in fact, my my designs, they they are reflections of the conversations we have with clients. So I remember there's a time I was meeting a lady and um Nika Mambambia, what I'm going to do, uh uh uh can how will you come up with uh something that I might like? And then I say, you know, when I when the first time I walked in the room, I saw you had uh your necklace was pearls, and then she had a uh grey coat and a grey skirt, and then a simple watch, not flashy, and then I'm like, this one is a bit conservative, so I'll not do something outrageous. If you don't tell me anything, I'll start with that, and then I'll go definitely to the architectural styles or in the art movements, then I'll pick one and then I'll propose.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

So you you start with the brief before the brief. Yes, there's the brief before the brief. The brief before the brief, yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

So it goes with the personality of the the the person owning the project.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

In fact, hey, anyway, but me, you know me, I'm very simple. In fact, uh has to be flashy, really? Yes, can I ask something that will offend viewers? Yes, is it um Jalua thing? Is it because of the influences because of the artistic side overpowering me?

SPEAKER_01 51:32

I don't know. I don't know, I don't know which one there's as well. I bet I didn't even mention it.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Everything now I'm referring to Jalu. Don't worry, don't worry, don't take offense. It's just on a bite notum se kasrike uko nyumaku, watuna type papuk.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Una do nga two videos. Studio little bold. And still observing. You know, if you want to be a person of influence, you should be able to take in much and come back the next day.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

So you've gone to the second place. Do you get another employment? After the second place.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

After the second. No, after the second, I didn't uh know you where what you're currently doing. Yeah, what I'm currently doing.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

What do you think is one area that you feel you've really grown just out of experience of working, not of school, of working, either at the hotel or the two employments or where you are currently?

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Oh, yeah, that's a good question. The two areas I was working in, yes. And then now um, you know that you still have the umbrella of your client, not your client of your boss. This is the guy from a certain certain company. So but now when you're uh working with your own company, let me say you take on all the risk. You take on all the risk. So that that's that's like the major the major the major difference between uh those two companies and where I am. Then you take on all the risk and you learn to you know things like client relations, how to communicate within a busy schedule to maybe connect with someone. How do you speak to them and they still feel like you know everyone wants to feel to judge? Yeah, to me too. Sorry, I'll be there. This thing will not be delivered today, and I'll do it tomorrow. Like, and you keep it like that. You keep it personal with everyone, you're handling uh do you do the is it is it um PR? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Oh, so that's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

That's what is very different from now under the umbrella of being employed by someone. But when it comes to the work, that is more or less similar. Responsibility is responsibility, timelines are timelines.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

And do you have like a challenge that turned into like a valuable learning experience for you throughout your experience? Like, hey, nifundisha lessoning aposisao.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

I don't want to mention this, but giving giving discounts or or doing extra you're doing a project and you say what I need trying to build up when you're handling a construction project. What it does is that you don't have uh it might mess up your resources for when an emergency comes up, when a contingency comes up. So from then on I I decided that there is no giving extra unless to me. And then Sasa Nikoufanyi.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Give me an example, give give you as so me and you are in the field, we may understand, but someone who's just starting out may not understand. So maybe do me to don't give of that.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Stuff like that. And you're like, you look at the budget and like ah, I can sleep in something here.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

This is in terms of purchasing or in terms of your time, like now the design.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Purchasing.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Or in terms of you throw in three things in terms of purchasing.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Not a lot. Kidogo too. There's a time I did, and then an unseen came up in the end. And then you know the client will definitely won't remember when you're giving the extras. They might or might not remember. So extras are for the end. When everything is done, then you can say, uh, what's anger?

SPEAKER_00 56:02

So now let's advise an a designer, whether aspiring or whatever, you're at that point and the client is trying to push you for these extras. How are they supposed to navigate it?

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Okay, I'm the one who is aware of the real budget.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

You're the one aware with the real budget, you know.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

And so, because you know, uh I want to have a long-term relationship with this guy.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Uh uh an Aitisha. So, to say you you've learned that you should meet.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

And there are also someone, there are there's also some people, you know, now when you when you work with people, you meet personalities. You know, some people can be either nagging more than others, and some people will just ask once and like any watch and you watch a drunly. So depending on who you meet.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

So, you you've learned from experience that do not give until the end of the project because you don't know about your contingency now.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Yeah, contingency can come. So don't how do they navigate it?

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Client is here pushing, please give me this thing extra.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

You can say no. You can say no, but you see, when the unseen is not there, you you can say yes because you also see your profit is still here. And then when the unseen comes, then inconvenience can step in. So that's one lesson I have picked.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

No, so they so what you're advising them is do not till the end or just do if you still have do not until the end.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Client is asking you to no or say no if you if you if if you have the heart. There are people very straightforward, they just don't uh I it's not like me.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

I just I in fact very political. In fact, it's something I need to work on. Me niko to direct. Direct.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

I want to be like that. My my late mom was like that, very direct woman. Yeah, it's UIV, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

You can challenge you industry, or everyone is trying to make something for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

You know, yes, so so I think that's one of the biggest lessons. Let me take the rest of it. Um maybe just the usual stuff.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Why why do you want to be more direct? Let me touch on that, Kidogo.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

Oh, direct. Um I can be very nice at times.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yes, and it puts you in problems.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Uh it has before.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Is it because of the people-pleasing trait? Which I hope I don't have that you are saying you had and you are hoping ended. Do you think? Oh, it is. Yeah. I don't.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

And then one thing I came to know, you know, uh um someone who's employed, and then uh the difference between someone who's employed and someone who's uh do you call it self-employed or a professional who is running their own company? Is uh you you come to terms with life. Uh you're employed as an umbrella, you you do enough to either keep you there or keep the company flourishing, you know, stuff like that. But when you're outside, you you you really meet life. So that's why we are speaking about design, but we are here talking about people pleasing. No, no. So when you are your own boss, this is when now you look at life from a different eye. You realize the moment you're done with your degree or your master's, there's education season three.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

School of life.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Some people, for some people it's spiritual matters, for some people it's public relations, for some people it's marketing.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Just to keep your business afloat because now it's you, everything is on the line on your neck. Yes, so you're adapting just based on so even the people pleasing may not necessarily be because you want to people please, it's like, okay, I need to get ABCD done, and at this point, this is what we let me throw in.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

And also, let me also throw it so that the project can look or get finished the way I wanted it to be like this. So what's an young girls and dope a fit.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

I remember, I've just remembered there's someone I worked with, they won't mention male or female, it was who when we used to do like now up to the styling, they were so passionate about it. Sometimes we would find, maybe see, we've bought items still uh uh according to the client's budget. We've bought ni nini. But time of styling, they're like a pana. I'm still feeling like something is missing. They don't even go ask the client for budget. And then maybe we have an opening for people to come see. They go even get things from their house. I'm like, season is a nyumbaku. Like, hey, but the the room was still not looking the way the space was not looking the way I want. And I used to be like, my gosh, like I'll come and pick it later. Sometimes that's angi is a how is it sawa saying, ah, it's okay. We'll just take them later, let them use use a little bit for it to look the way I want it to look. Hey, me, I don't have that heart.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

I'll be like you sometimes. Yeah, I separate.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

I separate home and I'll get there. But again, you see, for them, maybe what I would say generally, you know, them they were very passionate about decor and styling, like they were super extra passionate about maybe if it doesn't whatever we go we we we go and purchase. Like we I tell you, okay, we need to get A B C D more. Would you like to add some more?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

You're seeing the vision is like this, and then the client is also the client is okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

So for this particular example, the client is very okay with how the space is, but this particular person is not okay with it. The client has no issue. All of us are seeing like it is okay, but yeah, na feel ni kama a. I still need to add this thing. Imeza, but musi ja feel naile vasiko kwangu inakaita fita papua aneka.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

Wasa sa nyulia na kuja palet semi hospitali. Na, you na chwade hospitalikwa pakenyata. Doctor's plaza. Alafu ule nasa ken dokutua gloves na wbi m na joj me tokana gloves tie nabuti miya isi. You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

So going above and beyond, you bring just like pillows, like through cushions, and say, maybe the ones in my living room would look nice when I add it here. And then I used to be like, wey.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

No, I have seen those before. It's usually very it's it's like a conflict. Yeah. You might even think they're conversing to to you know get the Amakutoe.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Me, I would I I wouldn't mind if I'm the one doing like the purchasing. Like, you know, the designer sometimes you can just do the consulting, go with the client, they pay for the items. But if it's me and under my BOQ, I wouldn't mind adding and throwing it in. But it's a sense of like I can't add it and throw it in within the budget that I have. Uh uh. No, no, no, no. No, no. Anyway, tell me what tips would you give to an aspiring inter designer on how to make the most out of internships or their first employments?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

That one you just choose where you intern well.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

How do you choose well when you're out? You know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

This is the thing. How do you choose well now in this life? There's something called human capital. That one will really help you. And uh the kind of mentorship that people have when they grow up is what uh like facilitates you with how much human capital you have as you as you go up. So for someone they will want to make the most out of an internship somewhere, but really that company is not it can't give Nikama. Say you have a bottle of water and it's a quarter. It can't be full. There is a company definite that even if you intern uh neither here nor there. Uh just hope to get the the right company, and that will come from the people you interact with.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

So it's like what asking, like, do you know what place I'm looking for? A B C D.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

Well, it will it will come from your the way how ambitious you are and and what you showcase when you are when no one is looking. It will attract that I think that good company that you can intern in. But anyway, how to make the go the most of it from from whichever company you go to, good or bad company, is uh the just be be eager to to learn more than to to justify or to prove. Just just go there to learn and involve yourself, open up chance if someone is doing this. How do you do this? How do you do that? You know, when you also find a toxic environment, and on on the contrary, it is good for your growth.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

Explain toxic environments for anyone who doesn't, who's never worked. What would that look like, for example?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

You know, Kamaile, you feel kunam tuflaniku of pendi or something. Yeah, that person is good for your growth.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:04

Why? How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Because at that time when you'll be on both, you'll be able to tell some funny personalities from a far and it will save you a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

So don't just feel, oh, this is toxic, toxic, you just want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Learn your craft, and then you will even probably realize why some people don't like you if they don't. It's because there's something you have inside.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

Well, so you need to like solu. Sindo, jitamkutano kidoku because there's no way everyone doesn't like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

Yes. Just to wrap it up. Sindo, tell me how do you maintain a growth mindset and what would you advise people watching on how to maintain a growth mindset? Why industry? Because you've practiced for how long? Just four years in total.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Ten years, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

How do you practice a how do you create a growth mindset?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

How do you answer this?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

How do you ensure that you're always growing?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

You how do you ensure I think I strategically expose myself to only people that I feel we are headed in the same direction and also people from other careers? Then you bounce off ideas differently. And then also step out a bit more. Don't be on your desk too much.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

So am I stepping out too as an aspiring India designer or just starting out?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

Or starting out. Um you know, you find uh okay. The the problem is this is me after 10 years, and then this podcast is also trying to look at someone who is fresh from school. Is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

No, it's a mix. So it can it can catch someone who's just trying to decide, someone who is in school, yes, someone who has left school, yes, early careers, or just you know, mafanyakaziki dogo, maybe seven years.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

Growth really depends on who is around you. I will insist. Where do you live? Who is the next person you meet? Where do you take your coffee? For example, do you just uh like from time to time, just and just be in the right environment. That's how you grow. It will save you a lot of um research and reading about you know all of these matters of life that you need to grow up on. Just by positioning yourself, the people around you are the uh will make you elevate. Sounds more philosophical than no.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

I want to push you a little bit on that. Sawa, tell me where am I going to, for example, just one example so that it's a bit more tangible.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

As as who?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

As an internal as a no, let's say you are at year three.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

Tier three.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

Year three of employment, year three of employment. Yeah, kidogo.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Kidogo. For me, growth, eh? Uh there's this we we say we are designers and we are we are trying to build this career. And uh for some people, building career is uh maybe getting a style out there and making a lot of money employing people. But for me, I look at it deeper. I just ask myself, what is the meaning of this life and what do I want? Because this career thing is a facilitator to to what I'm trying to achieve in life. So that brings me to fine, we are all here. Say me and you, we you make 200 million, I make 200 million. We are looking for some sort of um gratification, sort of quote unquote. Like there's a place where you feel like uh I feel like uh within this age or at this period I have achieved this and this, and I I feel like my life is going well. Uh that determines what you chase, speaking of growth. And so for me, having grown up in a Christian home, and then I stray away, and then at one point I realize that I'm trying to look for God's face in matters. I notice that whatever we are doing, we have various gifts that we have been given by this, our good God here. And they should aid us to, you know, glorify his name. So my growth will be sort of aided by by that. So I think it's it depends from person to person. Person to person. For someone who feels like money is the ceiling to it, your growth is aided differently. For someone who has a person to either lift others up, your growth is aided differently. So that's why I feel like it's a bit it's a bit broad.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

It's too broad. Got it, got it. Actually, you're right, because that question can be answered very differently. It's not only just career, like, okay, how am I growing in career? You're growing in so many other things.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

Because you let make your money, uh buy whatever, spoil yourself with things here and there. Uh someone will also go and marry, others will marry four wives, others will build apartments. Like this goal just depends on on whom.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

Okay. Because actually, like for me, currently, my right now where I'm at, my biggest focus or priority is family.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

Family. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

That's my biggest priority. Not necessarily looking for the most projects, chasing for the biggest clients, not necessarily. So it just needs to be a nice balance. The moment it's taking away from family, then it's no longer important to me. Yeah, you get so I'm at that stage because my kids are really young, you know. They need their mommy, you know. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

I haven't started yet. I have no kids. I hear you people understand love in a in a different. I can tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

It's another, they call it a Tumana tube kaku.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

There's a dimension of love, you know, that guy don't know the love between someone and the and the and their child.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

It's so special.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:30

At the best, I've seen it in in my my niece and my nephew. So I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

You can imagine, because even me, I never really understood it until I had my okay. It's it's very it's you can't explain it. Sounds good. Yeah, you can't explain it, and it makes you really shift your perspective on a lot of things. Or rather, for me, not everyone also takes family and parenting and motherhood and stuff in the same way. You get not everyone receives it or enjoys it or has the same path. But for me personally, like it changed, it changed even just the way I look at career. You get? Because you'd not even have asked me like how many years ago, like 10 years ago, you'd never in a million years have told me that mezakwambia, the priority which is money is not the priority. You would never, you you couldn't have uh convinced me. You get? Yes. You could never convince me that I could just decide, let me take a break, and if I'm broke, I'm broke, it's okay. If it works, it works. If it does, like you could never you get, you know, that's such a big shift. Yeah. From someone who's very gogeta, very aggressive, very let's go, let's go, let's go. I'm achieving, achieving, achieving. You would never convince me 10 years ago that I would tell you, no, me, I'm just um it it needs to make sense for this first before this. You get? Yeah. Because you know these things, it's it's such a tough balance, I would say. It's a very tough balance, especially if you're doing both.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

Even if you're doing one, may I give respect. Even if you're doing one. So now add career into it. It's a very tough balance because you know, they usually say you can't have all because there's no balance really. There's days where you're better at career, and there are days where you're better at family, and there's you know, there's no at a a cuty no.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:25

You get yes, very true. Yeah, and then also when you grow in career, you have to like replicate yourselves. It's like you, Abigail, and there are five Abigails. Abigail, Amanda Mombasa, Lakini Kampuni, but we miss him.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

You know, exactly. Yeah, so there's a lot to it because eh, you're here thinking money, balancing, whatever. Kidogo, then they're looking for something very simple. They just want time, for example. They just want your time. They really don't care whether you take them where or they just want it. You know, kids can tell when you're involved. They may not even talk, they may not tell you, they may they can just tell you're engaged or you're not. Yes. They they know it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

By the time they tell you, you're like, hey, they're observing. They won't even tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

You'll just they just actually kids are very intelligent emotionally, they know how to just adjust accordingly. They'll just realize you're not dependable and they stop being attached.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

Sort of.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

Yeah, they stop being attached or lingering or pushing too much. Because at some point they kind of know, hey, here there's a cowal, you know. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, to me, digress that has duty the same way, anyway. Anyway, so let's wrap it up. Final parting shot to our viewers. What would you like to tell us?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

Parting shot. Wait, do I have a parting shot?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:49

I speak to an aspiring interior designer if you don't have a parting shot.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

Oh, ah, okay, that's easy. Aspiring interior designer. Find purpose. Yeah, life is not just about money, don't worship money. Yeah, find purpose and then you will be able to navigate. Like you have a reference point. Otherwise, if you are just moving, moving without finding purpose, you will meet everything. You're right, actually. So, purpose for me is key. Like you know, um, for example, uh, I was listening to this this preacher mundro. That could be the area where your calling is really.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:49

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

And then wanna waku na kunasukeza like uh are visitation center for them and stuff like that, you know? So can they vote? You research into it. So when you're working here, you know I'm heading like this. And then you start to partner with various entities, various similar-minded people, you know, and then you head to that side. So I think purpose is kill, it gives you a path. But without it, it's a maluras can I like you?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

Do you think you found your purpose? Or are you still searching?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

Um I can say that I am researching every day into it, and I am in the past two years or so, I am beginning to find it. I'm beginning to find it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Do you want to mention them? We leave it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:46

Ah, mambo spiritual, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:55

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Great. So we will drop your handles. Would you like us to attach your private social media handles? No, because as of now you we are not mentioning that. Let's save it for next time. We save it for next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

Uh let's save it for next time because I had actually just uh uh I I think I deleted the most of them. Right now I just I just post my car. I don't post anything else. So because they won't find anything, uh I just post my car mostly. Uh and and this thing you were asking that you were saying about purpose. Once I I can figure this out, and then I know I'm supposed to have this that and then I can start becoming vocal differently. So when I say I'm spiritual, I might have an assignment to go like this or like that. So then now when I start to post afresh, even work-related matters, it will be aiding the the main purpose or whatever God would want me to.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

Also, it will be shift to shift with regard using that lens.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

So Mamboya only make a render's oh, restaurant at G Wout Kigali Nini. I took a break from it a little bit, and then now I'll come back. I actually pulled them down. Yeah, so now I'll come back differently.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

So thank you guys for watching and tuning in. Please follow Studio Bold, comment, share, tell us what you've learned from this episode, leave a comment. And until next time, see ya.