SPEAKER_04 0:00

I was given a car at this second job after this second job. Yes. So you're jumping into this. Did you negotiate for this car?

SPEAKER_02 0:07

No, no, no. It was just part of the purpose. The guy I was the guy I was replacing, this was his car. And he was leaving. It was his he was senior to me. Maybe I think we may mungali ni barikit. Mungwalijuana. And he didn't want me to suffer and go back to the village.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Welcome to the Studio Little Bold podcast, where vision meets execution, creativity finds clarity, and mentorship unlocks potential. I'm your host, Abigail Osidiana, and this is the space for designers, dreamers, and change makers looking to build bold ideas and shape the future of interior design. Hi guys, welcome back to our channel. Today I have Travolta on set. Travolta will introduce himself and tell us all the good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Are you feeling good?

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Very good. Are you ready? I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

And share some knowledge about interior design.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Knowledge in Nena Kudropia. Please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Thank you. Uh Abigail for inviting me here. Um my name's a Hudson Travolta uhwendo. I'm a Lua interior designer.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Hey!

SPEAKER_02 1:19

From Western. I come from Busia. Uh born in Bungoma and bred uh born and bred in Bungoma. Went to school in Bungoma, uh both uh primary and um my high school. I went to Chesame's high school, still in Bungoma before I moved to Nairobi. You know, interior design is uh a lot of people, I think we used to hear about it in Nairobi and not in the outskirts of Nairobi. But I I think I developed that uh I developed that of doing interior design from a very young age when I was in primary. I remember I used to make a lot of houses, you know, models for houses. And my father used to wonder this guy, my father think wanted me to do medicine.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

All parents at that time.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yes, old parents, you know, medicine or becoming a teacher or a lawyer so that I can go into a permanent and pensionable job. But I think my focus was I I think I think I I I grew into my focus very early in my in my in my childhood. And this is something I wanted to do. So I've after high school, uh I joined University of Nairobi. The University of Nairobi. Uh it's very important to mention that.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Guys of UN. Hey.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

This is India Tuko. So we joined University of Nairobi to pursue Bachelor of Arts in Interior Design. So I majored in interior design. It's a four-year course at the University of Nairobi. A lot of time, I think not a lot of people used to know about interior design. In fact, uh a lot of guys, especially from my village, used to think I've come to do tailoring at the university. You know, when you tell them design, they think they think curtains, they think, you know, those Vitangers and arranging chairs in uh sofa sets in a room. So I I cleared my university education uh in the year 2007, graduated in 2008. It's a four-year duration course. Then the rest happened. Now we ventured into the market to go and start transforming spaces.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

So now that with that background, Yamuluya Kabisa proper where they are thinking, Vitenges, are your parents understanding what you're going to do in uni?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Slowly by slowly, they started understanding. When I when I joined university to do interior design, not many people really understood what interior design was. And I think it was a very expensive venture, especially for residentials. Um, a lot of people, probably multinational corporates, uh are the ones who probably would appreciate interior design and they would incorporate it into their offices. So getting my villagers understand what interior design. I remember one time I took my dad to one of my projects just to just to just to ensure that uh this old man gets what his son is doing. He's still trying he's still struggling with it until today.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Wait, at this point when you're taking him, how new are you in the industry?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

I was pretty probably around uh a year or two uh in employment. Okay. At that time we were doing uh fit outs uh for Safari Com countrywide. My dad was working in Kisumu then. So remember when I was doing the Kisumu branches, I was actually handling the Safaricom uh rollouts. Uh when I was handling Kisumu branch, I I just I told him one day just to pay a visit uh when you're having a site meeting so that he could just appreciate and internalize what this interior design is, and it's not just about curtains and arranging beds and sofa sets in a in a in a in a room.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

Yeah. And it's not Vitengues. And not Vitengues, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

But slowly, but slowly, I think uh I think I would I would say probably around 40% of his mind has changed to date because uh you've started practicing his uh practicing it at home when you're building our own uh home uh in back in the in my in my Lua land village in Bosia. Uh such a proud Umluya. Very Meluya inside. So he he started appreciating it, he started seeing things being done differently. Uh we are, you know, they are used to no brick walls inside the house. No one used to know about gypsum, they're used to those, you know, uh, those colored and uh the patterned uh ceiling boards, and uh they're not used to textured paints, they're used to whitewash, you know, and uh just doing a whitewash in your house and moving in. Not used to textured paints like the ones we have in uh currently, like at Crown, at Classic Molding, such such things, very new to them. So they were very shocked when I when I especially when I was constructing my house, I made sure I made my dad a project manager for our home so that he could just understand the nitty-gritties, especially when you are doing the finishing. Uh I I engaged him so that he could understand, you know, because I I actually took my foundies from Nairobi, uh, they were the ones working there, so they they could just impact knowledge from this old man in Busia. Yes, yes. So so during that construction period and the finishing stage, and of course the materials that we are using, because you understand, like uh in interior design is not about it's not about standard, you know, like people fundies would tell you there's a standard size of a door, there's a standard size of a window, there's a standard size of a shower cubicle. So when you could start doing these custom make custom made things, you know, those long, you know, you could do those long doors, the curved doors.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

He's just like, what?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

I think he was wild, eh? And he started getting interest. I remember recently he was telling me he's retired now. He was telling me if if there's a chance for him to go and study interior design.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Oh, but he can, it's fine, he can do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Now he's enjoying it.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Oh, he he did.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Now he's enjoying it because now the projects I've done uh back in the village, I've made sure that I engage him a lot. Oh, that's lovely in terms of supervision and also in just to impact that knowledge and also for my villagers to understand because I remember when I was joining University of Nairobi to do interior design. You know the way you'd you know the way you'd have this association of you know, Busia Students Association, Bungama Students Association, Mombasa Students Association, you know. I was looking for people who are coming from my village or my county who've done interior design. Until today I'm looking for them.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

You know these those associations, leave alone the main groups is interior design.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Leave alone the professional groups. Yeah, and there used to be there used to be those groups in the university for where you come from. Really? Yes. I know there was I know there was like for Kisumu, you know, I know like you'd get Luo students as you need the Luo students uh at the University of Nairobi, they could have those caucus where they you know they shared maybe their ideas. And uh there's a lot of things that used to happen. Like, for example, if you see with comrades when there's a funeral in Kisumu, you would see a bus filled from the University of Nairobi to go and attend that funeral of a comrade. Generally, those things used to happen through those groups. Yeah. We used to have a lot of a lot of those groups.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yes. Ah, yeah. So University of Nairobi, first year to fourth year.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Do you do do you get emp do you get employment? Do you get a hassle? Do you get an internship? Or do you just study all through?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

At the beginning, uh, you know, you know, we are we are I think probably our our cohort was the pioneer, the first I think six years were the pioneers of this uh interior design at the University of Nairobi. So there was a bit of confusion in terms of attachment. We could do we could we could do an entire an entire four years without having that actual industrial attachment that you're given by the university. So I remember we used to have something we used to call fourth term. Fourth term, we we we called it fourth term because uh that is the period that you are supposed to go to there for industrial attachment. A lot of guys in engineering and the other fields used to do it. But for us, it used to be like a normal time we're just staying in the university and because there's even the farms, there are not even enough farms or even any. Yes, no, no, not a lot to attack at that time, and you could hustle yourself to look for one. Because I remember like most people used to go, you know, look for this internship at government offices. And you know, government are not the first, they're not the best in terms of appreciating interior design. Because if you go to government office, it just looks government office. It looks like actually what my dad thinks what interior design is. So not not a lot of them could uh absorb us. But I remember we used to we used to do a lot of we used in campus, we used to call them PJs.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

You started at what year? PJs? Uh second year I'd started doing first year you're just figuring yourself out.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

First year I was just you know knowing knowing yourself, knowing knowing your way around the university, uh going to Chiromo, you know, finding your way out, how big this university. Remember, I've come from the village. Just meandering around. Just meandering around, you know, passing through the tunnel, you know, that tunnel connecting the hostel side and the main campus. Just just knowing what Nairobi holds for you, and of course, roaming around Nairobi. But second year is because remember at the University of Nairobi, when you're doing uh interior design, what's different from University of Nairobi and other universities that offer the same course is that uh when you joined first year, you do uh you do all the five uh elements of design that is fashion design, you do graphic design, there was industrial design. Product that that's now industrial design, industrial and product was one, and then there was um illustration, and then there was interior design. Yes. So you do this, all of them, for two years, and then you'd major in one of those in your third year. If you realize like the course being offered at uh like, for example, Maseno University, Marceno, you do interior design from first year to fourth year. That's the advantage I used to have uh as as uh interior design students at the University of Nairobi. So it gave us a broader skill, even before you now you find yourself which direction you want to go. Because I remember some people wanted to do interior design, but at the end of the day, they realize they are talented in product and and industrial. Some would say, no, now I'm very good in uh free and free and uh drawing and painting, they would choose illustration. So me, I chose um interior design. And by second year and third year, we would do a lot of I would I would do a lot of pages, like I was telling you, do a lot of posters, you know, for campaign posters. For illustration.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

The guys for now you Sonu. For Sonu.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah, I used to do a lot of Nini for these guys in Sony. In fact, most of them are my very good friends, they are my customers, the Kinababu win now. Those are my good friends. I did for them a lot of work till today. I I do some some of those graphics works for them, you know, posters, banners, and what have you. So it's it really prepared us. And if you look at interior, interior is all this combined.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Yeah, actually, you can't separate these elements when you think about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

About interior, yes. When you when you go to soft furnishing, you're looking at the fashion design. When you go to you know, when you go to artworks in a room, you're looking at uh at illustration and graphics.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

Even your presentations to the client.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Even my presentation to a client, yes. So it really impacted on our on the that broadness impacted on on how we would approach uh the the field.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Oh, you know, because me or some of these things we did them they were incorporated within the course, but very they were like units, eh? Yeah, like units, for example, the graphic design, maybe we'll do small things like logos and business cards. Kidoku, kidoku, but not uh to a large scale the way you guys did it. Fashion really not the most we did was the soft furnishings, which really I can't count as.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

You see the advantage with that it's you you are given you actually it gave us an opportunity to change your mind. Because you know, you would come and say, I want to do fashion design, and then two years down the line you think like this is not my direction. Actually, so a lot of guys change their minds along the way because now you're experiencing this thing real hand. Not from you know, it's not like coming, you're coming from high school and you think that is your direction, you're still not fully matured, you know, mentally to make that to know and make that decision. So that the the combination of all this gave us an opportunity to even change your mind. And there are some people who thought they are Mimi is product design. When they reach there, they realize this is a different thing from what they have in mind. It was a good thing. Everything has a pro and con. Yeah, that that was a pro for that one. And also, I look at uh like like my partner in business is Olga Nini from Marceno, he's a graduate from Marseno. You see, for like for him, he went there doing interior design, and that's what he did interior design. He, you know, once once on a sema, go lazima weao we are okay. So you go in there, it's interior design, you have no choice, you have to you finish or you drop out. Oh, you drop out. No, no two ways. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Ah, yeah. Let me ask before you even move too far. You mentioned about your partner. I don't know if I'll be jumping if I ask this. If so, we'll pin it. But how did you end up doing a partnership rather than doing solo? Because most designers want to end up, okay. Let me not use most. That's a bad generalization. Let me just ask. Why not just go solo?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

My partners, one of them was my roommate in campus, and we're very good friends. We are three partners. We started as three partners at the beginning. And uh, you know, when you're uh when after employment now, when I was uh when I was uh uh uh launching my own practice, the market demanded that at least you have you know that muscle. You know, you're looking for CV, you're looking for a profile that when you present to clients, they feel like uh I'm dealing with I'm dealing with people, not a person. Because a lot of clients will tell you the company is as good as the people behind the company. Not your graphics, not your presentation, not your the company is as good as the people behind it. Not even the name of the company. I'm sure you've seen uh like for example in government tenders, there are some companies you see when there's a scandal, you see names of companies, you realize you wonder how now, why not mine? If that name can go up there, why not mine? So that was the that was the basis for us too. Because do a partnership, do a partnership. One was my campus roommate from first year to fourth year. Uh and then uh the one for Maseno now was um we worked, we were a colleague where we were employed together. So I thought I thought just bringing that uh expertise because my target was to go and look for corporate clans. I I worked I worked for a big uh architectural firm, uh architectural and interior design firm for quite some time. I dealt in big projects, so I understood the market very well. I remember I used to deal with CEOs for multinationals like the Safari Comps, the Kenya Airways, the Berkeleys at that time. When you when you deal with these people, you start getting knowledge what is what is required. I remember my boss used to tell me if you want to get to big projects, just go and play golf.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

I hear that thing a lot.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yes. I though I've never started to play golf, I've never started going to play golf, just go and play golf or be active in church. Either or either or I chose to be active in church.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Because I don't know if I can swing.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

Actually, I hear that a lot, a lot about the golf thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

And of hey, why why why why that? When I came to realize this is where the brains of institutions are. This is where you get the CEOs, this is where you get the financial directors, this is where you get everyone else.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Once you impress those, the rest, they'll speak for you. They'll speak for you.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

They'll speak for you. And they are very juicy. They are very juicy. So you need to you need to interact with them so that you you understand.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

And the deals are made. I came to realize the deals are not made there, they're made in social settings.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

In social, in social settings. Even when I started my practice, I realized this some of this works is not is not how good you go to do a presentation. No, no, no. It's just how you and and again how you how you communicate, how you interact with people. Very important. How interact with people, and the networking. Your network is equal to your net worth. Yes. Especially in interior design and and and any other business.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

Yeah, yes. Let me pin this. I'll come back to it. Yes. So we are at this point, you're doing the banners, you're doing the posters. Next job, hassle, or lucky enough, I've never tarmarked. Okay, so wait, so you're skipping now straight to job.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Yes. Okay. Yes. I got my first job when I was in fourth year. Yes. Uh it's only it was an event management company. Uh as what? As an as an interior designer. You know, we used to do we used to design the stage, you know, this the setup for the stage, the lighting, and everything. So I joined that company when I was in fourth year. Of course, I was still I was still a green when you go to the when you go to the market. But what it does, it gives you confidence. When you start dealing with these people, you know, you are dealing with you're doing a function, for example, for G4S, for Safaricom, for Kenya Breweries, then you are you're you're part of the team. Uh, you know, interior designers, we are called uh night runners because we used to work until even morning, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Who's calling us night runners?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

A lot of people in campus used to call us that we are night runners because we used to operate during the night. We used to operate, uh you know the way our studios are, studio classes are the whole day you are you are parked, and then you still have to do your your assignments. The following day you need to do pinups. So we used to do if you go to University of Nairobi at night, there's a building called ADD. Yeah, it's always full at night, throughout the night. That those are designers you know working, doing assignments. You need to do a pinup tomorrow. You need so even at work, when I entered work, actually, interior design, actually design and and and build is just it doesn't have times. It's not a five edge to five thing. So I think campus brought us that mind to us. So when I I started working for this company in 2000 in when I was in fourth year, I would go, I think, three times a week. Um sometimes I would go after so those times that we used to have common common courses. You know, the common courses you can skip because you can come and read. But where you have the practical courses, you have to be in studio. I have to uh I have to be in studio. So I I used I used to I used to juggle between work and and and uh when I was in fourth year. Then lucky enough when I just cleared, I cleared when I already when I when I graduated, I was confirmed. Because that's when I was doing I was doing it on on part-time basis.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Yes. So wait, so tell me, what's the biggest challenge working here or shocker? Because this is now real employment. Yes, yes. What was shocking for you as you're joining? How are you feeling? What's your headspace like?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

I actually uh when I uh after graduation I was employed for 13 days when I was confirmed. My stay, my stay took took 13 days. I had made application to another company so 13 days after my confirmation I got I got I got I got the letter for the other place. For the other place. So I I got I got the I got that company. I worked there for three months when I was just being confirmed after probation. My journey has always been like a repetition. Three months after that, then I got another job.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

They're poaching you. What's happening?

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Now this one I was poached.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

The first one? It's because you had applied in your eating for the year.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

The first one, the f the the first, the first one that I was confirmed the 13 days, I was working there when I was a student. The part-time. After that, there's a former student, I think he was ahead of me by one year. He was leaving that other company. So he was asked to get a replacement.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

A replacement.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

He was asked to get a replacement and he had given notice that he has to move. So I moved. I was given a car.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

At this second job after that.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Second job, yes. I was given a I was given I was given a small car there.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Wait, what position? Wait with Twitter, Walter.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Just an interior designer.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

This other place, what was your title?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

The first place. Yeah. Just interior designer.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Oh, so it was just interior design. That's just interior. So you're jumping into this. Did you negotiate for this car?

SPEAKER_02 23:03

No, no, no. It was just part of the pup. The guy I was the guy I was replacing, this was his car. And he was leaving. He was senior to me. Maybe I think we may mungali ni barrique. Mungwalijuana wuyani. And he didn't want me to suffer and go back to the village.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

Ah yeah. So nango kapo. So wait, wait, wait. Most most. Yeah. So at this point, are you negotiating your salary package already?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

That one I was negotiated for. I'll take by that other guy. He told me I'm leaving, I've given notice, and this guy has told me before I leave and it needs a replacement.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

So they didn't say you or any nani.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

No, definitely walipungoza. Oh definitely walipungoza. I couldn't start at the same. I didn't even have the energy to go and negotiate because you know at that time, maybe if you're earning, for example, 30,000 and you're given for 45, that's a super increment. That's a big jump. Even if the guy was earning 60.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

It doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is the increment I've had after three months.

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Yeah. And a car.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

And a car on top of it. Fuel car.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Are you going home with it? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Yes, because we, as I told you, interior design is just about working. Not no age to five. So that company was very, they were very busy. Not doing very big projects. There are small, small projects here and there, but there are many, many projects. So I went there. I worked for three months. There's a company that I really, it was in my heart when I was in school. I used to pass that one, you'll just allow me to mention. I used to pass construction sites. I see triad architects. You know, you pass like GTC here, you see triad architects. You pass like you know, Time Star Wars, you see triad architects are the architects. And he it was all almost all over. They were very big. Uh that time I had gotten now after being given a car, I'd gotten a girlfriend. I had gotten a girlfriend who was at Daystar and then.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Hey.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

So movement was very easy. So whenever I used to go and pick.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Wait, the day mamma, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

No, no, yeah, so never used to m site up on the sema nijamu na piti apple n'goja. So every time I used to drive around, yeah. Every time I used to drive around, I I used to see that you know, billboards, either site, either sight boards in my co try darkite. I used to tell him I always have confidence in myself and God. One day, it's always good to be to believe, especially in our profession. You know, I'm not a banker. Whether I'm uh whether I'm suramba, you'll just bring your money and I will stamp that thing. You you'll not care. But you see, for for this profession, you have to you have to have that confidence. Yeah, you have to have because you have to look for clients. And you have to look good, number one, you have to look confident because you are selling to somebody an idea they don't have. So I was very confident in Kajambia. This one, God will answer. So I was telling my girlfriend then, she was my girlfriend then. I had confused her with this with this company car.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Wait, let me divert Kitoko. Did you end up marrying her?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

She's my wife. We are doing 16 years.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Ah, we're confused.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

We went to we went to we went we were going to Narok. I was doing Safari com Narok.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Phoop. Then it happened.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

That's the that's the day we married that's the day we married each other. She never went back home.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Why?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Because to Lirudi Numani past past midnight. We we arrived in Nairobi past midnight. The parents are when do not come back. Fire, see fire. Yeah. That is the first time. And the last time she appeared in the house.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

And remained in an interior design.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

With the beats.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

The bungama bumade at that point. The bungama gum. Alikua man. Yes. The bungama man.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

I was still a boy. You become a man after you marry.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

In my culture, no, see, you become a man after playing.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Preparation now for a real man.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yes. Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

So um atani me pote.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Mali ni lipata yo three months. Yo kazi ya three months. Ah yeah. Yes. So I got this job. This guy organized for me. He organized for me the job because he was living. Everything was prearranged for me. I move in. Atani kahama nyumba sasanikenda kawa in a bedroom. Eh, mumwe me unexpectedly.

SPEAKER_04 28:00

That is within that one year.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

The three months.

SPEAKER_04 28:03

It's within um three months. So mwaka Ijaisha.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Ijaisha? Itoka 13 days. 13 days and three months. It's not even half a year. 13 days after graduation. And then three months. And then after that, three months, now I I I I I think I got tired.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Of what?

SPEAKER_02 28:25

You to routine. I think uh probably in my in my view, I think the clans for Lokoana deal now are not exciting me. You know, they are not those big clans that uh I see and you know they used I used to see trad no big towers. Lafuna Tumu and I wanya design ya karum kadogo, you know, here and there. So I I felt like I was constrained. I felt like I was constrained. Then um I left work.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

That's after?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

The three months. Just before I got confirmed your probation. I left work, nikanza kofanya freelancing.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

Ya ni una tokamalukona projects ndogondogo tu ile ha una amuluka bado ju luko na PJs.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah, still doing a lot of and the PJs were paying me well, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Oh, so it's not like you're jumping to nothing.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

No, no, the PJs were doing me well. I had gotten I had gotten out like NGOs. I was doing some, there's some NGOs I was doing for them, these brochures, you know, uh banners and everything else. Those are quick money. Yeah, you would make 50,000 in a day. You design you design a banner, two maka email, wanna approve, print ten of them, you make 50,000, see you are good. Na ying nabdompe pay for 45,000 and it's 30 days. And realize Kumbia can just survive.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

The math was not mathing.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

The math was not mathing. I said, why not? Let me try. So there's a cousin of mine who was in Makerera Kakuja Kanambia. Let's see how, let's see what is it.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

But it's really not even out of fear because you sing practically. Yes. You're not hoping and praying.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

And I was uh I had to steal time from my employer to go to go to Kirinyaga road and river to do these banners and printing and everything. And then these posters, yeah, politicians, nini. So it it wasn't bad. The graphics knowledge.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

The honest word, stealing time from your employer.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

That's what you are doing. Now I'm an employer, I know. So you know my employee might think I don't know they are stealing my time, which is very which is very valuable. You know, you know, you know. But there's nothing you can do. Time they'll steal from you. They can be looking at the computer kumbe. Those are things I learned. I've learned maybe we will talk about it. I've learned through my journey about managing employees.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Let's go into that. Tell me. What biggest lesson on managing employees?

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Before that, now I'll tell you now where I learned that nini of managing employees. This trade thing I was dreaming. So I now left this nini after three months. I don't realize I'm getting money, but I'm getting bored. No, you guys are graphics on a fanas kumbil tattoo. It is finished until maybe another two months. Um 50,000, 100,000, 70,000. You're just there. There's nothing you're doing. You're just in the house waiting for the next. The turnaround is not that fast. Because once you design this brochure, maybe another three months are designing in something like that when there's an activity. So I got bored. Then I'm going to go to the house. Just walked in. They're called Spigol Interiors. Allow me to mention that.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

I hope you will not sumbua meet. Do you drop the videos? I'm marketing them.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

So I I'm speaking in good light of them, not bad. So I tako sumbua. So I got this lady, the Mwendi, very nice. Funny enough, I've never no one has ever asked me for my degree certificate.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Okay, fanya like pitch. And this is not in my company. When I was employed in Lemuna, combined. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

When you lose a penny degree, so no one everyone can be there's this task. Can you do? Yes. You start. When I realize there's something in this car, small boy from Bungoma. The Mundi gave me work. That was my turning point. Because now that place is in Mudaiga Pale, Libya Plaza, up Oka Corner, as where Mudaiga and Kiamburoad meets. So I worked there for around one year. Then we are doing now they are this uh the the Mundia Ismailiya, this religion ismailia. So we used to do, you know, Agakan is the Ismailia community. So I used to do a lot of big projects for now. Sasa pun il kwa di Mefika.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

But under employment. Underemployment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Now the projects are exciting because you are dealing now with the I like like I remember I used to do the projects for his highness, the Agakan, the residences in Kenya. In in Kenya we did here Nairobi and Mombasa and one in Daresalam in Oyster Bay. So happened to Nlipanandege Maraya kwa answer. Now that started getting exciting. Exciting. I was there for I think a year. This is the time when I was leaving this company. Now I want to connect you how I started the partnership. When I was leaving this company, the windy also told me, ah, Banay, you have been so good. Now we just way too later to replacement. We don't want to go to the market. Just look for somebody and tell us, hire this guy. So this is the time I introduced my partner. It was Shem from Masen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, aluminum. So when I was leaving later, told me I left. How did I join Trad? I left there and then joined Trad. When I was doing Agakan, the one in Moza. So one day I went to sight. Then this architect, now the big man at Trad. Anna Peter, Anangalia. So he he saw what I was doing. I thought it knew too old. Started asking me questions. You know, when you're coming from campus, you think you're the brightest. So I saw this old man and interior designing. In my heart na Jambia, with white hair and was an architect. He was the lead architect at Trad Architects. So Akana, I like to come and see where do you work? So he came, he came to a showroom. I came out of drawings. Zangu, Dini, Nini. That's how I was hired. You interviewed at your employer? I was interviewed at my desk at lunchtime. Over lunchtime. He left me the card. He doesn't have a title. Atrad one hour Kubuapendi titles, titles. He left me the card, told me, call me for coffee. No trad is just after you happen, it's just in the same road. So I betana squangina time employer. One hour. Just go and have coffee in trad.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

Well, Jenny, mm nafamum chudge. Do you wanna came raya?

SPEAKER_02 35:39

I'll happily pay. So easy I can afford. I will look for them one day of bonus service.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

You need to pay back.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yes, so that's that's how I got employed at Strad. Again at Strad. Mimi Sujinikama Tulukana took an Mimina. So when I left, when I went to Trad, there's this guy I was with in primary. At Rukoana University of Nairobi. He was in fourth year, I was a Kinikua Father. So he was in Trad. Even him, he was leaving. That's what I'm going after replacement. And then now this boss met me. Naajutu Najuana. So when he came, he came, introduced me to this guy, and now we need to show Hudson around. We met a sujuga manima and the colour. And he showed me around. He asked me one question. That question, now when I was leaving Trad, that that question be my interview. He asked me if I give you a job, can you report tomorrow? No, I'll give I'll need to give notice. Integrity is good in this industry. I told him I'll need to give notice to my employer so that she can also prepare to my replacement. My boss told me that was my interview question. You and you break the camera's back.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Because actually, you kissamo nachanisha working on projects.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

And I think I think when I answered that, it was subconsciously. See at mefkiriamanili plan. It was just subconsciously. Not in a boardroom. So I told him I know. So from there, he told me I'll when can you give notice? Kambi immediately. I'll give a one-month notice.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

You've not even discussed salary.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Nothing.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Oh, nain and hope dream in a prayer.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

This is my dream company. And this is where interior designers from campus go wrong. People start, you you go to a place with money in mind. Not with the knowledge. What what was in my mind? This company. I want this company. You know the knowledge.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

You are not even looking for this one. Triad, you are looking, but this one you are not looking.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

This is now triad.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Okay, okay, okay. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Nikki wendi when I was doing a gakan projects. You can see it. That's when I meet this guy. He's a director of triad.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Oh, then now ukaiba time, ukenda sasa.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I mean invite for coffee.

SPEAKER_04 38:19

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Now we you and you are that's why I pass me. I've not I didn't do an interview.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Even I was willing to take a pay cut if there I was to join Triad.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

The big, nice buildings you're like, these people are doing big things. I can learn.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

I just want to learn. I just want to be those big things. Because you know, definitely if you go to those big things, you will grow.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Because you're working, you're learning under pressure.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Under pressure.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Uh under pressure and you're doing big things. So the smaller things you become uh you become a king a king of yourself. So I went. So kapana notice Kamuinda. I worked there for one year at least. You did good things. You and your mali nilika, a whole year.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

One year nikidogo. One year. Your longest talking experience ni one year?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Nine years.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Okay, so we'll get to there. So uko mechapa? One year.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Then I left. So sin kapiana notice, then I. Tuta, tutta if a balance too.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

I watch an itaskipsita uliza maswaliza hapa. The next place to sit. So that I can ask the lessons and maybe challenges. So you mechapa one year.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

So this year for triad comes. I was called for interview. The interview now was to meet the other directors. It was actually an introduction, not even an interview. Women shaku are hired. Because remember, someone is leaving. And they have a pressure to replace.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

And they've asked for.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Yes. So in fact, the guy I was replacing Serenambez from my primary school, then we went to campus high school, we went different. Campus, we were together. He was in fourth year, I was in first year. He was more like a mentor to me. So when Aliona ni kuja and Zunguka na boss, in his mind, he used to tell me you've been hired. So that was, I think, on a Friday. So he told me before I go, because Mimi from Monday I stopped. Saturday, nitakupeleka koy officer sumbo visori. So Saturday we went because it was open. People could come anytime. Tried to come and be officially.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

Oh, so eh, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Confirmed confirmed. And then this he has under a lot of pressure because this guy is living on Monday. And that guy was doing Safari Com rollout projects. And there must be something, somebody. Because for that time, we were doing Safari Com four days in a week, you're not out of office. You are traveling. You're either in Machakos, you're in Busia, you're in Bungoma, you're in Garissa. So they needed somebody and also very young so that we can travel. So it was under pressure. And they didn't have time for advertising and interviews and what have you. So I receive a call. We like to have an interview with you. Mimiana na my certificates and everything else. He introduced me. Now this is Hudson. Hudson, I already spoke to him last week. I saw his work. Then they told me, I just wanted to see you. About you. We are glad you are joining us. Sina Baruad. Lakini Shambia, we are glad you're joining us. Ah, confidence due. So I was asked. Funny bit. I was asked how much I want to be paid. I think I was even willing to take a pay cut. I could not wait to join. That was my dream. My bots. And I was told uh how much do you want to earn? I said. But my guy, my the guy had guided alkwa money guide. But still, if you look at the jump from where I was coming from, the likuana shook in a cause.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

Oh, but mesema na confidence.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

But in mesama tu na confidence, nigga sama kamaya mba.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

Wait, are you shaking at this point? Are you looking worried? I wasn't worried.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Maybe one thing one thing I've never done is to get worried. What is the worst that can happen? Hey, they'll just tell me no. It is as good as not turning up for the interview. So, nigga sama chatukaende kaende. So they told me, oh, that's okay, okay. So that's on Monday. You'll come on Thursday.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Wait, they didn't negotiate?

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Okay, you will come on Thursday, then you will you will see what we have to offer.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

Oh that's what I was told. So, you temgoja kwanta umerudisha illegaringide sulisha acha uko.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Ileacha kitambo.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

So have you bought another car into this other place?

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Food subish.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

Did you negotiate for any other allowances or anything? I'm a two salary pekke.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Mimi takat kuingia.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

Oh, is if it was nine yeah AOB.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

If it was the good thing about the guy I'll come in a brief, you know, this company unappawa. It's ISO certified and it's the biggest. It's been among the biggest architectural firm in Kenya and East Africa. So he had given me a lot of benefits that are there. You know, you'll get a medical cover, you'll get uh over time unalipua, it's iconar reds. If you hear tried tried people at the level of architects and interior designers, you know, senior consultants, utembe, njoni muda ego konta nindani maliakuna matatu. Either you will take a cab, they used to be just gym cabs. I used to stay in the moja last time.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

Crossing street.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Because at times you know you'd wake up maybe at midnight. So they used to complain, uh, you risky nakambi wame so those things. So you had given me all those benefits that come with.

SPEAKER_04 45:25

So you're not at his at zero, you know. You're not blind.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

At least, at least I wasn't, I wasn't blind. At a paka yo salarial comment. But you know, I think I was looking from where I was coming from. How much and that's at times people don't know their value. When you don't inter when you don't nini with these people, you don't know your value, your actual value. So, Mimi, 15% increase. So hundred percent nikawa gopa. And to your surprise, what I asked, they gave me more.

SPEAKER_04 46:01

Allah.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Yeah, when I came to sign my when I could see that's Monday.

SPEAKER_04 46:04

Thursday, you're supposed to go back.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Thursday I was told now to go back and see what they offer. My offer letter. Very detailed. Those guys are very detailed. Proper. Proper, proper detailed.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

Una skip skip, skip, skip.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Remineration. After probation, you'll be given a car, la car loan. After suji nini napatiwa hi, after suji qualified nini napatiwa hi. My salary, I think in it. I think I was given double or something like that. And but then I panicked.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

I can love such employers. If you're in a capacity to do and you're saying this is a value, just because someone has asked for less doesn't mean kuna difference, kuna le anywe, unona to kwa ground, see what too easy. Sindo. But if you're in a capacity to usise me, ah, sasa, wacha nyangaldi travolta kai kuwa e to issue ki sh. Sindo. Yeah. That was so lovely.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

You see, for them, they are ISO certified. And uh standards, they have standards, and they have classes. There's no way you'd earn, there's no way you become an in you come in as an interior designer and you earn less than a technician. There are technicians there who earn good money. So they've made at least when I was at I I I I worked there for nine years. Nikarais rise through the ranks, paka nkakoyele malisa, size pita. I I I I I worked until I got to management level. So that's where I could understand you know this uh the standards that they have in terms of uh employee remuneration. There are some guidelines to that. So they could kuna yo control or that's how that's how I think Pesa Jemini Litisha, I think it was level year a technician. Hey, for them, you see, with the ISO, every year there's an increment automatically. Every year you get an increment of your salary because of inflation. So when a pana technician and a panda me panda me fika uko ju. So when you come in, like I'm sure when you go right now, entrance another pewa ukon ni psa mingi like.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

Really? So it's a rudichini sasa ju, sasa miakas maypita no nanza at this level. No.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Unless unless now they but so technician uba uko a toki sa an. So unless our part of new technicians in short, they are good employers.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

Because also someone for nine years.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

To me, they are the best.

SPEAKER_04 48:43

And you're saying other people are not leaving, also. It means it's not even about the money. There's also a work culture that's very good.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Very good. I enjoyed working there. Why is it because it's what I think if there's any way I could go back, is there?

SPEAKER_04 48:54

Where did you live?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Ambition.

SPEAKER_04 48:58

I get it.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Ambition. I had promised myself I'll work for 10 years. I left on my birthday.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

On my ninth birthday, Ambassador Nikatama Panaime Tosh. I think I'd also pee and look at me fika. You know, you've done it all. Yeah, the dreams I had about interior design, meeting these companies, doing these corporates. I'd done it all in Kajambia. And then I know easy because clans keep poking you and asking you, why can't you do it on your own?

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Funapata steam.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Kwanzaa unanza no, we are nani church. In akwa a song the first year, the second year when I realize, eh? But then you know I can I can do it. I can I can try.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

It's not easy decision, but for men, it's not a very easy decision. For women, we can just do our random things. Now to talk it.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

My biggest fear of leaving employment was my wife.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

In my heart. Until I had to ask her. Nanka mulisa kanambe. In fact, that day she was very Alice, Ali, Ali Fry Sana Kanambe. Even your friends will go ongo me kasan. Nine years. With my history of 13 days, three months.

SPEAKER_04 50:10

Yeah. Actually, I I feel like that's a big question. Sisi, wives. Ah, you can do whatever. And then one leon nafanye, but the man has to really think my sabuzake. Yes. Because it's impacting you.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

When she gave me the name. I didn't even reach the office.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

You did what?

SPEAKER_02 50:30

I didn't reach the office.

SPEAKER_04 50:31

What did you do?

SPEAKER_02 50:32

I just wrote an email.

SPEAKER_04 50:34

Allah.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

We need to talk. You know the way you are told you need to talk. But I didn't live in a bad way. I went, I explained to them. And to expand my territories. Because also realizing, you know, when I was working there, the amount the targets we were given, the amount of projects you have to do in a year. Like me, I was giving I remember Katin Mapatua, I have to do projects worth around 700 million in a year. So 700 million I booklate Kama averagely consultants. How much is that?

SPEAKER_04 51:21

The scale of the project itself. For you to get what percent?

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Working backward.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Just work backward and realize how much the company is making. Because they used to do big projects. You know, like, for example, like uh I was involved in uh Britam Tower and UAP and Safari Com. So kia kazo projects is mepita target by June we petitha target. Just average ilfanya 10%. Because some would be 15%, some 10%, some 7%, some gapi. Then you realize you're making a lot of money for these people. Then you ask yourself, can I make even just 1% of this? Or even 0.5% of this? See takwa progress. And there's nothing as sweet as just making your own thing. At a kamuna tengeza cupcake and selling it. Just one cupcake. There is that element of satisfaction you get. So you and you fanya nikasema lemi.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

So it's no longer even about the money, Sasanilian, like okay, sasa ninezafanya nini mimi.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

Because anyway, salary was not a problem. It wasn't a problem.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

No, it wasn't a problem. And of course, you used to do also PJs. And yeah, it was equal to.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

So other than the drive there, tell our viewers did you premeditate? Pre-meditate and say, okay, I'm looking like this period in itoka, and this is what I'm putting in place so that I live.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

As I had mentioned, I had promised myself working employment ten years. Remember, Trad is nine years, close to nine years.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

Oh, you were counting plus the other places. Okay, I got the 10 you are counting up.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Yeah, 10 years was employment. Remember after I told you after the three months I decided to go freelancing. Nikawanya three months. Nika test nika wana simbaya san. But it requires it requires experience. Uh, what current designers are making mistakes right now? Mutuametoka shulya anataka kwingia kwa, self-employment immediately. It doesn't work like that. You might be lucky, but high chances you'd be unlucky is very there are many, yeah. Why? Because uh uh you see a nini like interior design, you're going to sell your portfolio. Portfolio is simply works you have done.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

What work have you done your children?

SPEAKER_02 53:46

What have you done? A lot of people will give you jobs based on what you have done, not telling them. See your story. Now, see your good designs a computer.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

This was before and after. This is before and after.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

I actually designed this studio this way, and this is how the studio came out. Because that's a very big, I think I saw any will discuss about the challenges in the field, uh Theory versus the real, real thing on ground. So, what I would encourage people, uh especially young interior designers, just go and get that experience. And when you go to this, uh when you get employment, apart from the money aspect, what people miss, number one, you're going to learn how to do things in in a with teamwork. Because you're going out to work with other people who think differently from you. Because at times we think we are the best in what we think until you meet the best.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Then you're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

If if if you have not invented anything, you're not the best. Yeah. So it's good to work with people. You learn teamwork and uh very important networking. Employment u tatumwakamutu because we employ somewhere, now we create some network and you will benefit from it by meeting these people. Because a lot of challenges are easy, you see, like it's just like sending application letters at jobs. Squeezy attack, they don't do regrets. You know, Kitamba walk me, but we are regrets. Squeezy, they don't even do regrets. Application letter, so this will give you an opportunity to meet real, real people, real industry shakers and movers. So it's important you go to a workplace, kidogo learn something, you learn work ethics, you learn teamwork, you learn how to network. You will even learn an element of business, managing business.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

Yeah. Hi, yeah. Biggest lesson in your career would that you would say?

SPEAKER_02 55:49

The biggest lesson to me is always that teamwork and networking. How do you do it?

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Give us practical you how do you do your networking other than the people that you're meeting, either from the client, on site, because that's as you're mentioning, is your one of the biggest things because you're piggybacking on someone else's networks. Yes, yes, yes. You abigail and you, anajua Stephanie, na Stephanie Nisiyo wasafari kom. You've met and anime kutuma, meet Stephanie. It's already a piggyback, send you.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

Yes. The biggest thing is uh what I realize, you know, this networking is not just not about meeting people, like going to a church. At Uta Kutana Tuna Cioa, a palafumuna, women interior design, and then it starts. Remember at the beginning I told you the two places to meet people is where? Golf and church. And this golf is not going to stand there. Go and play. Umtua Sema uja man and shindanga killasiku. That's a CEO saying, hey, we have tamza golf. We have then you then he'll they'll develop something in you. So atta ukienda now that same, you know, like in the golf course, if they're in the course you are very good and they notice you, they know you have something good in you. Ukienda kumabi, no, I can also do interior design. So now we soften.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

It's not a rigid hardware.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

It's not a yes. Like ini kunayata kwanga, what do you what do you mean you can do an interior design for my house? Uh how, how, you don't look like but if they see your strengths there, they will they will endear themselves to you. Your church. When you go to church, that's what my boss was telling me then make sure you participate in church activities. Probably and there. A lot of people make big mistakes. Personal. Just go there, participate in big activities. It has very big people and very silent. So just go there, participate in those activities, church development committees. I participate until today, even in my church, um, I'm in the development committee. I just make sure you just go and create an impact. Pro bono. That pro bono will give you there's somebody in church there who is a CEO somewhere that you don't know. Hey, Hudson, I I get a lot of that, especially in our church group. I have seen you guys have done a good proposal for our mega church and blah, blah. There's a friend of mine who he wants to do a house. Are you able to do that? You see, CCA billboards? Yeah, at the Supreme Interior, now do this for me. A lot of clients I get from the search forums. And that is networking. Networking does not necessarily mean I know her, I know you. You know, hey, this guy is doing something. Can I refer him to my friend who wants to build? You can be of help. So you're too my profile.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

That's an interesting approach, actually. So mumelan ki too, guys. That's an interesting one. And not necessarily, and what I'm also getting from you, it's not necessarily that you're wanting to get something out of it, it's also service. Yes, it's just giving back.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

And subconsciously that they want to do it. Everything comes, yeah, it comes with and without you know, it just comes. I get a lot of inquiries from people and from very from very new sources, unexpected sources. Can you do this? Can you do this? And then something else is just discipline. Discipline and delivery. Very important.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

Tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Discipline is is is is is where you, for example, you get a project. And uh you know, you'll sell, you know, you know, when you want to get a when you want to get a job, you will oversell yourself. But if you're disciplined enough, you are we you will tell the client realities that they don't want to hear. The uncomfortable truths are the best truths the client will ever remember. Tell this client project yako, in your 10 million 10 million. Then you take the project. Just because you want to get into the project, then you pick up or you start variations. That is indiscipline. That is project and financial indiscipline.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:10

Because they're now they're getting into it, thinking they lose the three, it will now end up 15, surely.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

And then you'll touch U Tanza Kambiya client, you told me, you told me, then you don't know what you're doing. Because this client is number one, the client is green. You are the layman, you are the professional. The big question they'll ask you, why did I come to you? Should have told me. So it's no longer their problem. It's no longer their problem. Just tell the client the uncomfortable truth. Mimi, what I always tell my clients, just uncomfortable from the day from day one. Hapa, tutagonga mwamba. And and at times you with the discipline, at times you there are projects you just say no, thank you. In a good way. You just you don't say no, but in a good way. For example, how do you say it in a good way? Can you tender for this project now itaki? Nagyo ekwana stress, just ensure to me price double. You see, you have tackled two things in one. The client knows at least you gave an effort. You didn't reject because kunaele a sira atuana gana sa mma isita fanya. Fanya tula kini fanya uki juwa. Wacha tuenyo anito. You know, you have said it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:22

Sometimes tenders in a waste time mingi, even just combining this document. So wuna fai, unajaza zoteya takama wa uko interested. Because now we take time mob.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

I select.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

I'll tell tell us about the ones that you've selected and you're not going to do. No, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

I would say no. Kuna kuna, you see, like for example, tenderza gazette, me, I don't do. I have never done and I will never do. This is a gazette. Number one, zingine is predetermined, it's just a process they are filling up.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

Me no longer zone.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

But kuna zingine, kuna kuna kuna kuna those that you look at them and say this is a worthy of course kuna wana two connections here and there. But this is a worthy thing to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

To try.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

Even if you know you're not going to get it. Just announce yourself. So let them know you are there. Let them know Supreme Interiors is there.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

Uh-uh. The ones that you are saying no, the ones that you're saying no, tell us a nice way or no way, and you know you you're completely not going to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

You overpriced.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

So you still do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

You still do it, and then over. But there are those you select because you don't want to. Maybe maybe you have a relationship. Especially individual clients. That is where the challenge is in the market. Individual clients.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:34

How do you do it? Tell tell our guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

It's it's uh people people would approach it. No, people would approach it differently. I think the way I would approach it is probably different from it's it's not a standard, it's not a blueprint. It's not a blueprint, but how I would do it, that's why I mentioned there are some I would choose to fill in the tender. Double it. Double it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

Lakini.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Lakini, I think you are the highest bidding. Ah, thank God. Thank God for this message.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:08

Ah, yeah. That's njia numbayakwanza. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

I don't want to use the word igno. There are some you pretend you are busy. Oh, I didn't see it. And it happens a lot. It happens a lot, especially to somebody you don't have a relationship with. I was on travel.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:39

I'm trying to I want to wrap you up because you had somewhere else to go. Sindel. Yes. So let me let me squeeze in a little. Hiya. Biggest shocker of your career. Don't know, I think we can give you a bit of time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

Shocker.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:57

In employment, or do you do want let's tackle employment, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

I mean, you have to do both. Yeah, employment, the biggest shocker. But not not necessarily as for the career, but during my career period. We've done a proposal. We go we go with um one of my directors to present to the client. And I think I'd not done my drawings to scale. I think nearly mefanyam biombio. Then you arrive. The board of directors, it was a corporate entity. Board of directors were makeup. Boss and mefika set of drawings. Of course, I was that when I was panicking because I knew something is a missing. And my boss, my boss was very tough. I think some of these armor directors, my boss Joe Pia Likwa is the directors or many of these my corporates' corporates. So most of them are his peers. So he enters a boardroom. I'm there. I arrived very early. He looks at one of the drawings, it's not to scale. I used to work with his scale rule. Directors are seated on the boardroom.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Wait, so before your presentation, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

What is it? I'm going to present.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

But is he checking there? Why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

We hadn't met. We didn't meet in the office. So didn't piggyo and be meet tomorrow at Nini. Make sure you are ready, Nini, blah blah blah. Some mean we're gonna have drawings not to scale. Scale is very important in design, I'm sure I'm sure you know that. Then he just uh literally drawings. And you know the board of directors were my carpaboard. And then you have to present.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:57

What are you going to present? You have to say something. Of the same things that are not to scale.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Of the same things that are not to scale. So we had to project. But the entire presentation, my boss alukame frown. You can imagine the panic. You're just doing it, but the panic. Now nikitoka upon nika jambia. This one. After here. Sirodi kwai. Sirodi. Naenda ni kianda.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

I love.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

I don't know what. I don't know what I'll meet in the office the following day. Nika se mahi, nikitoka, niki fi. Mungo ni side to ym presentation niche.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Niende niki wa high.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

Find my room, ni ni find my way home. Nikifika home, ah, sirodi oko. That is that is the end of me. Then I I took a toka. So of course my director's raffikiya boss. As I meet my liza si me toka, wanna achieve wanna pigma high five, ni ni wana checker, nini ni wana fry wana pigga my stories. Metoka nika. I reached home when I was sleeping, uh my mind like Juliza niende, I'm an isa. Do I just not go to this job? But just something told me that what is the worst that will happen. If you go and get fired, and if you don't go and lose the job, it's the same thing. Just go and get fired. Hey, what an idiot is an idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:38

So worried be to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

Then when he came in the Akakuja, Akakuja Akuja kwa deskiangu nika sama sasa andyo ye. He's the same boss who fired who hired me. Sasandio kuja. The guy Velalifikavy started laughing. Then I got more confused. I started laughing, Akani Lisa. It's him who asked me. What is the what is the worst that could have happened? Now you know. Now you now we are growing. That was deep end for me. It it it it taught me something. Eventually, but there can be explain. I wanted to see how you handle your emotions. I wanted to, I think it was a test on its own.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:24

So he did not even tearing there intentionally.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

So just a zagine mamboya design and emotions in a kwanga high. So his tempest has gine, but if you understand him, ah, sasang just in kumwa void. That was my biggest shocker. Kwa feel in ka jambia. Hey, kumba ta scale inazakwa something very serious.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:56

Not the design, the scale of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Just the scale of the even in this story.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:01

Do you know me what I'm seeing the shocker is I can mess up so bad, but still get some grace.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:09

That's also shocking.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:16

Fungana advice to aspiring interior designers. Here's your camera.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

I think I think to me, uh for my colleagues who are young, not aspiring. Me, I just call them my colleagues, whether they're young or old. My advice is uh this industry is there for everyone. Number one. Meaning design is dynamic. Don't go with a fixed mindset that this is, you know, I used to, there's something I always tell like my my employees, design is dynamic. Don't go with a fixed mind. There are times you design something you don't like. Ultimately the client must like what they want. That is the ultimate. Because uh design is not a blueprint. Uh at times when I when I drive along maybe a highway, I'm sure all of you experience, you think your car is the best. And probably at that time you know the value of that car.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:39

Is it hot?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

So that is design for you. Because design, you are here to solve a problem, a somebody's problem. And we are here to you're you are you're in this industry to actually, we are always like a guide. You might want something, but you don't know the how to do it. So I'm there to be to be to be to be that person of the how to do it. We would advise you, but ultimately the client is king. Just design it to the standard of the client. Because at the end of the day, you'll spend maybe one year designing something and implementing it. And this client will spend 50 years consuming that consuming that space. So just come with open mind, that is number one. Number two, don't put money ahead of. Especially for interior designers, me, I don't know about any other profession. I can only preach the water I take. Come in this industry with open mind. There's good money. There's good money after the knowledge. There's good money after your portfolio. Your portfolio will sell you. So don't come, don't come to the industry with the perception. You know that perception, we could talk a campus in your to mefanya, assist in your interior designers.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Look for the knowledge first.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:58

Reality kwa ground.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

Reality kwa ground is different. Knowledge will take you far. Knowledge will sell you. Your discipline and your work will sell you more than even that money. Right now they are paying a million. How? So money will money will follow. Money will follow. And then discipline. Discipline, discipline, discipline. Discipline, integrity, and honesty.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:25

Discipline, integrity, and honesty. And honesty.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

Discipline, integrity, and honesty. That will take you places. A father la to fanya kazimba languia client and yapanime mess. You are honest enough. Than looking for excuse.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:39

And pinning it to you. This other seems to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:41

Kamawiangea, who you should do in the discipline, you have that integrity. No, konaya honesty. When you make a mistake, at times swallow your pride, sink in the cost. Like what I do, I ventured into design and build eventually. That's another another whole topic altogether. You realize you design something, people implement something different from what you have envisioned. So we ventured into that. At times you take a loss just to correct a mess that you yourself, you see it's a mess, even before the client tells you. Don't don't pass blames in this industry. That will be the end of you. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:26

Oh, just before we wrap up, uh I don't know if I missed it or you didn't tell us. Focus here, your company right now. What what are you guys focusing on?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

We're doing um uh the company called Supreme Interiors Limited. We link them here. Yes. Um we do design and build solutions and also project management. We started the design, uh, but a lot of clients were coming back to us and say, you know, you gave me a good design, but the execution was poor. So we it was more for me getting into the build, it was more of uh clients uh push than our push. We know initially we never wanted to get into it, but we had no choice. So clients pushed us to start doing uh design and build so that you deliver what you probably said.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:16

So is this in commercial? Are you in residential, doing the amounts just like an India designer?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

Anything we're doing a crossboard. Uh recently we've also expanded. Now we are doing the actual construction, the building construction. Yeah, so uh we actually now do tanky.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:32

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:32

Yeah, we do come and we get an architect, maybe we partner with architects also. We we design it from scratch and we build from scratch and execute it to the end. So we've those are three departments in in our company. So design, you also do the fit out, and you also do the construction and project management.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:53

I give you so much respect for the fit out part and the construction because that's a headache. But once you have your proper systems in place, it's like a machine, it just needs to be oiled properly.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

Yeah, just get just be an overseer. Let the people who know what to do do what they need to do. Don't be a jack of all things. And uh and also the we we did expansion gradually.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:15

It wasn't a one-time thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

It wasn't a one-time thing. We entered into design, we did design, then we entered into fit before we even went to construct the construction bit actually went through during corona time. So investment in uh buses, as hot as my grounds. That's the that's the time people realize you know we can do something different. That's the time you actually started because the interior jobs went down, if you remember that time. That is the time people started working from home. Yes, working from home means no offices, none is doing an office. In fact, most buildings size here upper hill nini is downsize. People are working from home, so we didn't we didn't have work to do in terms of uh designing for offices. So, opportunities, why not? Waka mawa jiu and gine nawaka simit. Now wake kabiro. See my songa okay songa.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:13

Yes, and with that, I'd like to thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the channel, honoring our invite, coming on time. Pole, we had another shooter that spilled over into your time, but we really appreciate your patience and for sharing with the community. Yeah, most of the time. Abas, because we need another part too.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:31

We should.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:31

Yes, because we have actually uh see uh a couple of cities. I don't know if I mentioned to you on phone. Yes, yes. Yes, so we have a couple of cities, and the main purpose of this platform is to educate designers, which an attack emerging kill them to do because you learn from everyone's stories, you learn also from people's mistakes, you learn from people's challenges, and then also you get bold from realizing a panna kumbe can say no. Oh, kombe na is a semi-yes. Even sometimes you feel like the sky is here, and then you realize, ah yeah, this is what people are doing. I'm playing small, you know. So thank you, thank you so much. Please follow you on socials, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:06

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:07

We will link them here. Follow, comment, share. Yeah. When you meet him on the streets, say my hi. And with that, until next time, bye-bye.