Why waiting for 4 years made my interior designers story | Episode 33

Why waiting for 4 years made my interior designers story | Episode 33

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So uam udom sa my perfumes do. Because kuna za perfumes envelope, kuna perfumes a funky. So ki kuja uki come inda funky, you come with your umpits. Na pigu mojo na pigu moja. Twenty bob. Natonga. Natonga. So uki mikingye ko school bus nun kwa kakakondoniwo. Na manda. Yes. Sap tsemini perfume moja, the whole school. So niki shukabas ni waft. Bass. And the and you said it's a boy school, so there's nobody to impress.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Welcome to the Studio Little Bold podcast, where vision meets execution, creativity finds clarity, and mentorship unlocks potential. I'm your host, Abigail O Sidiana, and this is the space for designers, dreamers, and change makers looking to build bold ideas and shape the future of interior design. Hi guys, welcome back to our channel. Today we have Albert on set. We're from having a fun challenge. You'll see it on the reels during his week. But in the meantime, thank you so much for honoring our invite.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Karibu Karibu S. Mashukurusana. Please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Okay. Thank you. My name is Albert McCambi. I am a lot of things. Uh professionally, I'm an interior designer with uh 10 years of experience from 2016 to date. I am um a graphic designer passionately. I am an artist, and uh socially, I am a son, I am a brother, I'm a friend, uh sometimes I'm an enemy. Uh but uh all in all, I'm a human being and I'm crossing through this life one day at a time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Tell us about artists. You said you're a designer, graphic designer, and artist. What do you do in terms of your artistry?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Well, um, where do you begin? Do you begin at the inception stages or let me begin uh where it all started. Started when I was a young boy. I grew up in Gilgil. And um, you know, when you're young, you don't really know yourself. You're just trying to find your way. Right? So I identified something in me that uh I later on discovered I could tap into. I was very good when it comes to sketches. I was very good when it comes to illustrations.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

This is at what age?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

This was uh class, class two, class three going up. Class, let's say class one, going to class two.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Anyone who always remembers class two, class one, Nishangata, but anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah, but you you see you don't remember everything, you remember only the most important details. Life-changing yes, because some people don't remember yesterday. Right? I you remember some things that happened 10 years ago, 12 years ago, 15 years ago, depending on how impactful they were. Get. So for me, those tender memories uh played a very crucial role in who I became as an interior designer. I was very good when it comes to pencil illustrations. I was very good when it comes to even 3D illustrations at a very young age. So much so that it was something that I was known for. See how in primary school some people are known for being good at soccer, some people are uh are good at athletics. I was the artist. And back then I was I was just like a small boy.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Were you in a boarding school?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

No, I was in primary I was in um day school. I was in a day school. I started in a day school, get so I later moved into a boarding school in my upper primary. So starting out um in primary school, I discovered I have this talent. You know, there was a lot of sketchwork in in primary school. You you have to sketch uh maybe in uh geography, history, and civics, that was GHC. And that uh sometimes in uh in other subjects. So every now and then I used to have my friends, my classmates, they would come to me when it comes to sketchwork and drawings. Uh I used to have people even from other classes, but below below me, would they would come to me with with uh those assignments. So it became something that I was known for. So later on I started uh now tapping into this small speech that I have. I I just it it kept on growing and growing and growing. And when I got to upper primary school, my skills had really developed to a point that complex drawings, I was the one who was being looked up to. Like Molimaxema, hey, we need this drawing, everybody will look to. So it was something I was known for, and it was it's it's something that became very, very easy for me to tap into. So moving on in life, there was this time I developed um a passion for line work. I was I found out that I was very good when it comes to lines and shapes, identifying them, drawing them, and uh no matter how complex they were, it was very, very, very easy for me to get them. So there was this time my dad um he had plans, uh, blueprints, let me call them blueprints, architectural blueprints for his house up country. And now he was he was looking at them because he he had just uh brought them from the architect. I did not know what architecture was, I didn't know what blueprints were. I just looked at these things and it was sort of love at first sight. You look at something, I was like, wow, what are these? What is this? So I just I stared at them, and this was like very huge A1 papers.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Wait, and you're saying he got them from from his architect. Okay back home.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

So he will he okay, he had he had a so you know he he had um his his farm back home and he wanted farm as in F-A-R-M or F-I.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

F Shambha Shamba.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Yes, okay, to never jump into Kizoli.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Yeah, but you can mix.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yes, so uh home, send you. So he wants to build home, to build at home. So he comes with these blueprints from the architect. And now I've never seen blueprints, I don't know what an architect is, I don't know anything. I'm just in primary school. So I see these things and I'm very, very intrigued. Like, hey, what is this? So I start studying them and uh I started asking questions, being inquisitive. Like, what are these? Oh, in your kisi, what what what? Minim Kisi. Yo.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

So and wait, for context, designers of today don't understand that drawings were not sent soft copy, goes to the case. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

This was back in 2003, 2004. That's my upper primary school, right? Akikard came the other day, like back uh in 2010, 2011.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

Do you remember when Akikard came?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yes. That was because uh one of the uh younger upcoming architects in Gilgil, he was like the only one who was using Akikard. Yes, all the the OGs were very resistant to change to the technology. Even the guy who drew the house for my dad, he was very resistant to to the technology that was that was coming in. But I looked at this thing and gone out, this is the future. And uh one day I'll have to be in that space uh in one way or another, either as an architect or just as a practitioner, I have to to learn this thing. So I looked at the the the plans, I asked my dad, hey nini, I am. And then now I got in touch with with the architect. Now this is me in some.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

So you've asked, or this is later, or during this when you're looking at them.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Um I'm just asking, hey, in your in your wapi, oh yeah, can you be in here? And I told Mr. Manono doing this, he does this and that. So I got wind of the architect. And this is that's when we started, we started uh talking. I started talking to him, asking questions, visiting his office, and every now and then I see the things he had that he has done, and I was very intrigued. Like this, okay, so this is how buildings are are designed, this is how they are from the construction stage. This is how this is where they come from. And I carried that spirit into into my high school. So I even my high school I started, I studied in Gilgil. And then uh unfortunately, I'm uh as fate would have it, we didn't have art and design. But I still carried that spirit of just drawing and design in different ways. Now from there it transformed into what I've just told you. What I've just told you. I was very good when it comes to trigonometry.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

I was very good when it comes to geometry, despite not having the art and design.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Despite not having the art and design. I was very good when it came to just calligraphy. You get so this was something that spiraled in. I okay, I didn't um trigonometry and geometry, that was more you into the educative side. Calligraphy was just just more of fun, you get so I I would I would um get small small gigs of writing certificates, uh writing letters, you know, drawing the the names on on envelopes for guys who wanted to to send uh methods for funkies, yeah. So and one thing I remember about about high school is that this was a whole supply chain, like writing letters. It was a whole yeah, because there was a guy for uh selling writing pads, there was a guy for selling envelopes, there was a guy for selling uh what do you call them stamps, there's a guy even for perfumes.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

So then the letter smelling, hey, the envelope.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Una pig a perfume and then is up on dani. So and then the sassad there was me, the calligraphy guy. So unandika, and then you charge.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

So much to rita watu, what una check and no, not really.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Okay, I used to deal with the envelope side. Oh, not the content inside. No, no, no, no. I'm not that intrusive. So envelope, who? Abigail or C Dana. Naivasha girls.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Of course. How much? 20 books. Uh-huh. You get Charles Chetty. Also, used to do nayalko nandikambaka baru and uh uh barua itself. Nao he charges you extra ku kwanti kia mistari kama.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Oh dear. Okay, for mistari. For my stari, um the the guys who who used to have these booklets and this booklets metokapi. Like old books. It's not just an exercise book. But he has akunami stari. So mezi and dika like uh nikama quotations.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Number one. He has like 500 lines that you can board.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Kuliko Entrepreneur. Yes. So wait, wait, wait, tell me about this mystery book. You're going and then you ask, can I see the mystery book?

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Yes. Una lipa. It's unalipa.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Alapa una chaguay le na.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Una chaguay nyuna taka. Ni pen number four seventy six, number number four eight.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Ukila lanja mi by choice, baby.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

By choice. You get. So kuli kun namsawa mystari, kunam sewa envelopes, kunam se writing pads, kunam se wa perfume. Na perfumes ilikuambili. Kuna the cheap one, kuna the expensive one. The cheap one was five bob. The expensive one was ten bob. So just one kapaf, nalipa ten bob. Very true. So uam uam saw my perfumes do. Because kuna za perfumes are envelope, kuna perfumes a funky. So kiku nda funki, you come with your umpits. Na pigu mojo, na pigu mojo. Twenty bob. Natonga. Na songa. So uki miking yako school bas nanukaka kondo nyiwan. Na manda. Yes. Sat semini perfume moja, the whole school. So nki. Shuka bas ni waft. Bas. And you said it's a boy school, so there's nobody to impress. So wakatiakuna fan ki niotum nanuka signal. So wakati kunafanki. Bas. So, I mean that guy used to make a lot of money because uki charge ten bob papis. That's if you bought that thing for 2500. By the send me the how many people do you need? Like 250 people.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

But wait, before even we go to the 250 people. Yes. Akunamtu okay, in nasongambele kwa story. Akunamtu minyalicha w kaka kasema. Watch any babeangu.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

No, but you see, we are in high school.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

And and um Yeah, na beba na ako high school.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yes. Basasa, not everybody had that entrepreneurial spirit, and probably not everybody had that kind of money. Because you are in high school. I mean, 2500 right now might seem but at that time it was a lot, actually. It was a lot of money, I tried.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Your bread those days, I think, was 20 bob mark. 20 bob, yeah. Yeah. So a full loaf for context, a full loaf of bread was 20 bob. So and then you kitaka quarter used to be like 5 bob.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So sit will cut no uh we had vocers, 20 bob. This is a digression to we'll go back to any redesign. Citrik no a vote at 20 bob.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Voucha na toa happy.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Vulture na the school bazaar.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

Oh, so you go, you give money, they give you value.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

So it's like a booklet. Kunaza uh 10 loaves, 20 loaves. So you pay an equivalent. So if you want 10 loaves, that's 200 bob. If you want 20 loaves, that's 400 bob. Una partia booklet, it's 20 volters. So kitaka mkitaka ku ku ku ku ku lamkata nyi what how many are we? Four of us.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

Naga na kota kwa.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Naga na kota quota. So kunamse, aliikwana wasa voucher 25 bob.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

A me tengata five bob.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Five bob ko vocher. You see. So there was there was just a market for even cameraman was there. Cameraman were there. Kulikuna msewa pitch upekaki.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Camera inatokapi.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Asiya nangizachu.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Now akuna modi mwamona.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Okay, it was known uuja mako na camera, but it was that was accepted.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Everything else from Kuza envelopes, coolza ni kuza stamps, koza writing path, it was illegal. But akuna mtuangi ange snitch. Because we all need the same. We all need each other. At a headboy in akwitaji. You get it's true. It was a joint venture. It was a joint venture, exactly. So back to back to me and uh my artistry. So I mean I'm in high school, I didn't I didn't uh do art and design, but I had it in me. It was very, very easy. Artistry was very, very easy for me. I completed high school, but my main focus in high school was my grades. I didn't want to fail.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

Why didn't you want to fail?

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Because I just didn't want to fail. Okay. Okay, it was mostly I didn't want to I I I looked at it like I was going to fail my parents, but I just didn't want to fail. I just didn't want to get a bad grade. I cannot say I was uh I was an exceptional student, especially with the sciences. I had to focus so much on the sciences. But when it comes to mathematics and the languages, it was very, very easy for me.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

Me, I didn't fail, not because I didn't want to fail, because I was threatened not to fail. It was not entirely by choice, it was a sense of by the way, you need to get between this and this, or you are on your own. My mama liambia, by the way, these are the acceptable limits. You mess yourself up, me, I'm not going to bend over backwards for you. So you'll go to where you malizakos mefikisha, utendana malifikisha. I won't go be extra and beyond. And not because she could not, it was those ones where she was very tough. It was Ilia, like my friend.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

You have to do this.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

You have to do this. How are we discussing?

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

What are we discussing? You know.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

So for me, it was more like um this. I I I was advised that this thing is going to have a snowball effect. If you fail in high school, it's going to roll over into where you go for your university. It's going to roll over into how you end up in your career. So I had to start at to have a starting block. So my biggest weakness was my sciences. That I cannot lie. I was not good at sciences. Um, business business, mathematics, English, languages, history, very easy. I could do them half a week and pass. So I completed my high school with a good with a decent grade, I'll be minus. But when it comes to when it came to uh the selections, I missed out. I wanted to do architecture.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Wait, you missed out cutoff ilikuanga?

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Katofiliku, architecture ilikua.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Oh, oh, you only missed out for architecture, not you missed out completely everything.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

But my mind was on architecture. I wanted to do this thing. Every time. So it's either blueprint or nothing. So I miss out on there on the architecture part. But Nasama, it is where life has to go on. So that was 2008. Out of high school, I have a B minus. Life has to go on. Between 2008 to around 2012, it was more like there was that hustling stage after high school. So between between high school to two. Sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's two years. For me, it was around four years. Because my brother was at that time was in uh was in campus at Kenyatta University. So having two people at the university was a bit a bit of a challenge. So I had to I I just had to wait it out. Wait, him he was at what year? He he was at he started uh in 2010. He's seven years older than me.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

So for him, he started later and um he started I think in 2010. He started like two years uh before me. Get no not two years, I think three, maybe three years before me. So by the time I was ready to get to to campus, it was around 2012. But now here I am, 2008-2009. What do I have to keep me busy? I have this uh artistry, but it's not as important right now because there are skills I need to learn because of the way the world is moving. So in comes computer packages, and the computer packages and whatnot. And then I got wait to the school that you went to didn't have computer. It had, but um, it was selective. Yeah, so for me, for what I wanted to do, computer was not as important. I would have done it later. That's the that's one thing I know. So here I am uh during this hustling stage. Nanza computer packages, I did computer packages, cleared it. And then I got an internship in that college where I worked.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

Wait, let me ask. When you called for job, because I also did job, were you called for job?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

No.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

Oh, you weren't called for job? None of the options, you weren't called for okay. Got it. I had to copa much. Would they have the leeway of you can join in later? You know, I know you to Nangia. No, so I wanted to just connect.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

You get. I don't know if they've they've changed the policies, but back then it was like I don't I don't think there was Kuito Badai.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

What do you mean, Kuito Baday? Like uh see you see on a pata barua unenda hapa unaj. So I was wondering, I didn't know that you didn't do job. So I was wondering, you got a job later and you didn't report. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

I didn't I didn't get a job. So I get it, I I try I try to look for activities that will fill this gap. Computer packages. I didn't even I did even advance computing, like repair and maintenance and whatnot. So I have all these skills and whatnot, but I still have uh this calligraphy thing. And right now I'm uh I'm in good terms with with the government. Then come 2010, I go for what do you call this referendum.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

But wait, before even the referendums, you were doing this internship where now where I cut you short, yeah, and you said you got a job at that college where you are doing computer. Yes. Okay, do you mind me taking you there, Kidogo, before we go? So let's go. So you're here, you're doing your computer packages, you finished.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Then now you got an internship there.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

I got an internship as a secretary. Now you have these skills Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, PowerPoint, what, what, what, what? You have to apply them. So I become as more like um an assistant there. Get documents, they need typing, Alberta Kwapi. Features, they need printing, Alberta Kwapi. Uh Zinaitaji kupele kwa, plus flan, Alberta Kwawapi. So you get so you have all these skills that later on I learned, looking back, they were very, very helpful in who I am today, in how I apply them today in my in my career.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Give us, for example.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

For example, something like uh Advanced Excel, uh, coming up with formulas in uh generating my quotations, in balancing my books, in uh drafting my co my contracts. I mean it might look it might look might look simple, but it's helped a lot in how I present myself, how I present my work, you understand? So things like PowerPoint, presentation, you have to present thing this thing on screen. Maybe you are you're you're in a board. Are you going to come with papers? I are you going to come with soft copy. So it I I I came later, I became a teacher in that institution. Teaching what? Teaching computer packages. The same same computer packages.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

And uh how long did that run for?

SPEAKER_02 21:25

That ran from around 2009, 10, 11, mid-11.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

So it's still within the four years.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Yes. Okay. So in between, I also got a job as a clerk for the referendum for the 2010 referendum, Naivasha. And for me, it was it was a big job because it was related to the government. You get because for me, teaching computer packages was just a local thing with within within within home, within your hometown. But now here you are living home, going to do something related to the government. it's something that was very very historical you get and now the big the big issue about this something that this this is something that stayed in my mind was because after the 2007 post election Nevasha was a hot spot and here comes something political that I'm going to be involved in as a clerk you get so there was a lot of worry but it was an opportunity and it it it had to add something to my CV like our why did your folks at any point tell eh of course there was a there was that concern even for even in within myself even by myself there was that concern like what if things are up what would happen get so uh so you what was your motivation at that point it's just money okay because like to tap so because for me the motivation when it comes to having all these activities to fill up to fill up my gap was not to stay idle get i i idling around home you that was something I did not want you not what your folks was like me I don't idle yes you for me okay I was very very afraid of idling so I had to come up with all this I was lucky enough to have all these people around me to give this to give me these opportunities but how are you doing in a referendum now when you secretary uh see is because I could take break something a referendum is just something like for a week you're just oh you took off days yes leave days yes okay go just for a week okay you go there get trained Malaysia go for the referendum you're done go back to life get it wasn't something like it wasn't a tea challenging at hey where I am born because I know why I'm asking that is early careers kuna kwanga challenges and you have to perform and you have to perform and no one's really telling you have leave days and oh you don't have leave days so I was wondering how you are navigating. No because uh the person who employed me was something somebody who's who was uh close to to us as a family oh so but I didn't I I didn't want it to look like I was taking advantage of that. We had to be professional with how we related to each other. So Nikawambia to Any Ajay I've gotten this gig is just for a week I'm going to be a clerk in Naivasha for the referendum once the referendum is done I'll I'll come back. How did you apply for it even uh there was a friend of uh a friend of mine who just gave me the heads up Benny the same way uh what do you call these things elections when you fanika these are not like um official people just people who have these qualifications even for like your okay just finish finish sorry the the the the basic qualifications are you in in right standing with the government yes good conduct are you a citizen of Kenya um are you above uh the age limit yes could you apply upper and get so it's it's it's easy to get them to get these jobs but it's not something that it's going to last like a month or two months.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Why I'm asking that is one there's an election coming soon and then this view this channel a lot of either people who are just trying to figure out whether they want to get into uni or choose into a design or early in their careers or wako should you have free time you know it's just to show them there are these opportunities now to you know because funny enough um so you we knew each other in a different way but I didn't have your number so when I was asking for references the one who gave me your number also did the same kind of hassles so I'm wondering is it like because of those relationships?

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yes basically relationships okay nothing else much of how people move forward is basically relationships because for me I didn't even know I okay I I I heard of the referendum but I didn't know the intricate intricate details somebody just came a jal but there's this gig you can you can apply and see if you can get it so for me it wasn't going to I was going to get it I was just going to see if I could get it and then I can so I used to commute back and forth from Gilgil to Naivasha then from Naivasha I go to interior. That is daily daily yes but it was for how long is a week training was no no no no like the commute from Gilgil to Naivasha is 50 Bob and then from Sasa from Naivasha town interior is like 10 minutes on bike.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

So it's not that far but it was quite interior. So we do that for like a week and then after that referendum day we had to sleep at the station it was a primary school we had to casha there start job at six in the morning close job at six in the evening uh do the tally uh uh uh relay the report close it got to kendanga niko rudish ni miko digress ni miko digress malini kukata tuli kuwa wapi tuli kuwa wapi makeuputa ianga so uh so you're balancing uh he job omit take one week off umenda huku sendio you've also shown us how long it is what you need to do so here I am now my mind is into I have to I have to go to the university here's an opportunity do you remember how much you were paid for that it was like 30k okay in those days it was good money it was good money for a week even for a week in between I had also other gigs there's there was this this time um there was a church back home they had an activity and they had certificates and they need somebody to write the certificates calligraphy so here I was there's somebody who knows me uh linked me to that church I charged them like was it 50 bulpa certificate about 110 certificates so you only job mean yeah so it was just about gigs here and gigs there it wasn't even anything formal formal or anything long long term you get but the most long term job I got I got in in that uh computer college so you went back I went back I was there for about um I think a year and a half after I I finished my my my my learning I went there for a year and a half this was now around 2011 now come 2011 I'm thinking critically about joining university and since architecture seemed a bit far from from from grasp here comes because of the cutoff point because of the cutoff point here comes interior design so you this you discovered when you're there now looking looking now now looking now starting to think uh where am I going to be in the next two to three years how are they going to look like I have to move so here comes I discover interior design and it's closely closely uh closely related to architecture so I start uh doing my research doing my research I find university on Irobi find Marceno and I take my chances with Marceno and I apply and I'm accepted for 2012 intake and then August 2012 I'm a student at Marceno University question before you even get to Marceno uni you've taken a break because your brother is in school and school feels but can I say what's your headspace like not now that time are you feeling resentful are you feeling wasted are you feeling like this is unfair or are you feeling like you know what this is life not that I look at it now not now not now not now not now okay so let me let me go back to I look at it from the younger version of me I was a bit you could feel that weight because you look at your peers and your peers are moving but here you are get and sometimes you could you could ask yourself why can't I be like that? Because a friend of mine has gone to my university another one has gone to KU did you ever ask like your parents did you ever no no no no even to so you just have to chill because I'm a sour but were you given a timeline of chilling pacalini no it was inevitable it was just indefinite infinite it was indefinite we get but now with that indefinite uh condition you have to you have to keep moving you have to do things you have to to to keep yourself active so I did a lot of things in between writing me fanga.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Why didn't you ever because you're hustling a lot and making a lot of no not a lot but okay comfortable money comfortable money okay name jijibu kwa ki choya angle because I was asking you from the lens of jab because I was in jab and my school fees was so affordable but parallel and jab were not the same school fees. So I I had wanted to ask you but you're hustling so much mbona townge jambia but nimefanya ta maka moja kusanya to neza hustle to tukisonga but I've remembered jab and para school fees is not they're not the same because at my time I remember because I got into jab I think my school fees was if I remember correctly 35K a year including accommodation for the whole year. You get and that's one of the things they were saying me I was threatened into performing primary school my mom told me and funny blandazako I'm not gonna ring utender too maligrideka high school she was like on you you fail whatever you'll go to where you're called if you're not called for job I am not paying for parallel of course I had a brother in parallel but I think that was your elder brother yeah my elder brother's just a two year difference. But it was also okay but before he also got there now we are being to machanaki dogs but the others are way older. So we really don't know for context if she's bluffing or not yeah so we both know that Niki Fanya Blunder I am not going to go to uni in fact she was like if you don't get make it to uni through jab the government sponsorship really because of your grade cutoff you're not going to go I'm not struggling I'm not going to pay whatever you get for context she was a secretary and she was trying to do the best that she could with the funds at that point.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

You get yeah yeah so we get when you grow up you think you you start learning slowly that your parents gave everything they could into bringing us where we are and now that I look at it okay but at that point I there was that pain of I'm here but I need to move I want to move I have that desire to move but I can't because circumstances are the way they are but looking at it from a grown up lens I think I realize I can attest to the fact that our parents gave so much to us we really don't have any permission to go to them and say that I'm not sure if you want to mean those guys especially my dad I mean shout out to you Mr. McCambi but my parents gave me everything they could to to put me to where I am right now they've given so much.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Because I've always been those sorts of like if you don't like I've I always have the thinking of if you don't do this you won't get this like so from that isomatreads yes I think I I was also given that because for me I was I was I I remember that said down in Kambiwa if you do not perform well in high school it's going to roll down.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yeah you get it's going to roll down in how you how you perform in in because out end of university and actually I've just thought about it for context for people who are not understanding because maybe things have changed and times have changed me a coming is my Peter me my school is let's say for context so say I have a brain para in another uni in UN actually then me I'm in Maseno through job so two systems but everyone is in uni.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Could you imagine mine was 35k a year give or take including accommodation for the three semesters and his school fees if I remember was 1 I think 75 per semester what context same family same parent paying 35,000 a year for one and then so he wants 75 times three she's almost paying 600k that's without fare and he's living at home her na hostel and a fanya day scrolling her japewa pocket money na japewa lunch you get yeah and I remember she just kept rubbing it in like I told you I told you ingi to unito lemzigu you know like this is what I meant. It's such a huge disparity can you imagine 35000 a year versus like almost 600k 170 170 that's actually able to count 1753 Stephanie Niniamans 545k in the school fees tuition no transport no you get no food no lunch no pocket money no nothing nothing no materials you buy things in the clean emenda to kwa shuly tuition fee same patent you get I when you when you think about such things is you you ought to think that you just you should go to your parents and kneel down and say you guys get you guys did your work but now back to to to my timeline here I am I'm in I'm in campus and I'm doing interior design and now I start navigating the the hassle of campus and learning how to become a professional in this thing I don't know anything about it but I have to navigate it somehow so the four years were they were very very adventurous as I think you understand yeah wherever you understand despite all the challenges and everything I graduated in 2016 was there any anything memorable sana no but even before you graduate what what are you feeling in terms of the work environment in terms of all these places you've worked whether whether it looks formal or not what are you feeling like it's surprising what is challenging you know I think um before Sasa will graduate before you graduate we're talking about campus or before campus both both up to graduation is the cut okay so let me start with the the hustling environment because for me money wasn't the goal staying occupied was the goal money was just the side effect get but when money the money started becoming good money started becoming the goal and staying occupied was was the side effect get because yeah sometimes the those online jobs because that was the the era of online requirements get I even bought a laptop my first laptop it was a compact it was old by the time I was disposing it you made a lot of money and misused a lot of money so but you learned did you learn anything okay bus so it's not that it's not that much of a waste so it was it was good money you learn a lot you learn how to relate with people you learn how to acquire skills you learn the importance of skills long term and that is something I think I took out of that has those hustling uh periods if you can learn a skill learn it you never know when you're going to apply it what did you learn from the writing one your takeaway I did I used to do a lot of research so the most important thing I think I learned communication skills because you I I used to deal with different personalities people from the West people from Europe people from Australia.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Oh you you are working directly with them you have your own account yes yes oh me I was under someone else no okay they were they they used to be those but for me I learned it also from somebody the person who employed me in that computer college used to do those jobs now he's the one who gave me that idea you get so I used to have my own clients and they used to pay very well especially guys from from the US if you have two or three of those you're sorted so I learned how to communicate how to be timely because they work with very tight schedules. Sometimes you have to sleep to to to to trans are asleep. So you have to work with them sometimes you have to chat with them and uh so you have to be timely you have to be very very clear when it comes to communication you have to be very very clear when it comes to presenting your work so those things shaped me later on when it comes when it came to how I presented my work in college when it came to how I presented my work today come university university has its own challenges so coursework was not that complicated it wasn't intense I I'm seeing that in comparison to what I have now you guys when you are there we used to feel like it's so much well lucky there was and I think if I can advise if I can talk about my internship days that was the first cultural shock I received like it was no it was sort of hitting a wall it wasn't a smooth landing get and I felt like there was a such a huge gap between coursework and internship and for me coursework was very very easy now that I look at it with my eyes today internship was extreme because so I start my internship uh this was 2016 and I could feel the pressure of being an intern straight from being a uh student but I have to adapt so I just roll with the punches roll with the punches for the first three months and I realized there's a whole lot that I missed out in coursework that I've come to learn out here. So I I for for the the for the subsequent let's say 12 months I kept questioning my my coursework was it something I missed no because I was the third best in my in my in my class I was uh second upper I was the first two are first class owners I was the first second upper meaning I was very very good when it comes to coursework. Wait I'm trying to remember when you with those uh groupings first class second upper and whatever there was grading system no but si couldn't your list your graduation list graduation list based on name name Gina like A's B's like Abigail Brian Catherine's was it I would I thought so I think it was it was on name basis but what I remember is I was third best in my class get so that's that is to show that I was very very good with my coursework but I come here and I get the shock of um trying to adapt I need a lot of time to adapt into the industry because the coursework didn't give me enough to mold me into being adequate immediately for the industry.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

Were you given grace at that point to adapt?

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Yes I was you are being given a lot of a lot of grace a lot of it and I think why I started my internship molded me it gave me so much to who I am today as an as a as an interior designer. There was a lot of learning I did there was a lot of work that I did that molded who I am today as an interior designer. And I think whenever somebody wants to to do the internship it's very very important for you to choose. I cannot say let me not say the right firm but for me I would advise you to go for a small farm. I also agree with that I also tell people go to a small farm don't go to a very big one very very true because here's my experience with a small farm it it was just slightly bigger than this office right and you could see everything move around from how jobs are acquired site visits information collection in terms of uh site measurements how you translate that into a proposal how you try you move that from proposal to the design team how you move from the design team to the to the to site and construction you see how everything moves around you see how the finances are governed because we had a secretary and she would balance every project you get so you get a better better understanding of the back end of interior design. What we see is just the front end the beautiful uh finishes the nice happy client but you don't see what happens behind it you don't see the site work you don't see the constructions you don't see the late night you don't see the hustling with the with with the foundis you don't see the uh the the the materials thrashing exactly they render us rendering in tomorrow they renders at 3 a.m you don't see those but when you come out is when you get to see these things get so when when I look back I'm very grateful for the opportunity I had during my internship because now it gave me a full scope picture of what interior design relates what construction relates or relates to what design process relates to and I look at it uh from from the angle of guys my colleagues who went to let's say larger firms the ones that have more structured departments like where to design and you do not know what happens in construct in the construction department you don't know what happens in the transport department you don't know what happens in the accounting department You get so you're just fixed there. Your your work is doing presentations and renders.

SPEAKER_04 44:07

And that's dangerous for a starter.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

For a starter, it's very dangerous. Later on, when you when now you you you have a footing in the industry, you understand how everything goes, is when you can you can you can locate, you can start yourself and niche down to this is what I want to do. And also how you start your design journey will dictate how you move on later on in life. Because guys who started with uh just purely design or design consulting, they ended up doing just design consulting. So they focus on 3Ds, they focus on um the drawings, drawings and whatnot. Guys who started more in in construction tend to not be office material, they just focus on the construction.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Office material.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yes, like me there's a same. I cannot sit down and start doing renders because I didn't start there. I spent a week in the office. I think at a day one nili and a site.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Nilifika to EV, we talked with the boss, niage, so this is you. Actually, when when I started uh when I started my internship, I came to Nairobi from Gilgil. It's called Sini Malaysama. The place where I was I was uh I was assigned to for my internship has been uh is full. Apparently they had a very few positions. It was on a first-come, first hour basis. So somebody came, I can occupy your space. Now here I am, I don't have a space. I think within that one week I made over 60 calls to 60 different companies looking for internship. And being, hey, my name is Albert, I'm from Asana University, I'm looking for internship. My name is Albert, I'm from Masana University, I'm looking for internship. So nobody was, nobody was available. Then one of my one of my lecturers, Abung, uh, he got in touch with, now my my first uh my first employer, told hey, Nyaja, I have a guy here called Albert, he's very good, you can take him under your wing. So we meet uh back then it was South B. We meet at South B, he shows me his office, we kick it off. And there's a job in Upper Hill. Bro, I've been in Nairobi for one week. See you up, but I have to go to Upper Hill. So you get so you just jump from school into the fire pit of integer design. So I have to go, I have to locate where Upper Hill is. Niende uko, nichuko job, ni leteko office. So that that that fast-paced movement is something I didn't have in my coursework that I later came to learn. This is the nature of the design process. So I stayed in the office for a week, nikapatiwa job kikuy. That was my first major job. Nika ruli office, nika pe job in Guinea. Where was it? I think it was Kayole. There's a there was a there was a hospital in Kayole, there was another one in Kyambu. That was a residential. There was another one where Gong, I think there was a winery in Gong. There was another job at uh next gen. So my job was my job didn't really focus so much on being in the office. And I think I took that, and that is how my design done. So I spent very little time sitting in front of in front of a computer. Yeah, I can do, I can do uh what do you call them? I can do detailed drawings. I'm very good at that. Go back to geometry and trigonometry. So line work is my my my my forte, if I can say that. So I can sit down, do do detailed drawings, but that's as far as I go when it comes to to design. Anything concerning renders, I'd rather get somebody else to do the first. So the skills that I got and the nature of the work that I carried out during my internship and the subsequent year really dictated a lot about on who I became later on as a designer.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

Yeah. You actually mentioned something and I've just written. I don't know if you mentioned that I don't think so. Currently, name of the company where you're at, are you employed? Is it yours? And what are you focusing on?

SPEAKER_01 48:19

It is mine.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

A five-star concept focuses on design and construction.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

So, where I've come is because of that. Because you're saying um a lot of what you're doing currently is based on the history where you went and started. Because even me, I started more or less in a firm that did a lot of consultancies, and that's the path that I also followed a lot. And me seemed to a site. I keep better site na skying at the time. So am I here?

SPEAKER_02 48:47

So for you, okay, if you if you if you acquire a job.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

So I do end-to-end, but I don't do the fit out. I come pre periodic inspections. But I'm not bringing my tiles, I'm not dealing with that. Every day. I would cry.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

At least at least nipiti and see what these guys are doing. You get so you have to get in touch, you have to know people in uh where you where you buy the materials. Mostly in the Gikomba, I'm enterprise road industry area. So you have to get in touch with uh the fundies, make sure they are they are on site in time, make sure they have everything that they need in terms of detailed detailed detailed drawings. The electrician is there. Make sure everybody is in line with each other.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

Because Moja Kichalewa, the whole if you left me in charge of dealing with the fundies, we would never have a complete. I'd just be firing. Because I have some level of patience. Yes. In Ataka, so much patience. You mean Najua? That's why I don't prefer to do bring one one. I'd rather give Albert, you are the contractor. Miss June when you taleta and stuck it. Of course, there's one too that usually would work like this at Tyler, you know, I can recommend you to my friend or whatever. But on projects, I'm not moving around and dealing with individuals. Me, I'll deal with you only.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

You will talk to your people and you will but it becomes easier with time once you get to know who how these people work.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:32

The way like you have sight, and I've already so I realize my personality is I'm a starter. Okay, I'm really good at kickstarting things and the bigger picture and how we will achieve this. The rest of the day today, and like why am I here doing the nitty-gritty small, small things? What are we here? See me Nisha said, even the concept nafaku, nieshak fanya details ote, nisha ku nicha pando to dato andisha nini. Is of it to zingini shuani minakuja kwangia scutting nini. As in if I could remove it. But anyway, man itunend up. But you get. And there are people who go to site and are so like, oh my god, Jana ni likujana, he ukutay ku kwa heavy. Like, wow. Me, I'm just like those sorts of like, can someone else check this? Me endele.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Okay, um, I don't know. Uh, is it can I ask where did you start?

SPEAKER_04 51:16

Me, I started in consultancy.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Fully. I understand you. And she started in a company that dealt mostly with that.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Consultancy also. You get.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

So for me, I started in mostly mostly it dealt with the design and construction. But my major was the construction part. Even when the when that company started, um it's it's uh mostly the construction department. Um I was the four-person there. I was the site person, site site manager there. So it just went on and on and on.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

And it also fit also your personality. Okay, I'm sure meaning you're sure site.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

I'm an introvert, but you just have to wear that helmet. You have to wear that armor and go there and make things happen.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

Uh-huh. Me, I just want to ensure that you have everything you need. Once you're here, can someone can help but now take over? Okay, you get once you have everything, you have I know how to bring everyone in order and everything and the timelines, and who is best at what, and who will come in and what and who will bring the best expertise and whatever. Nikishawa said, and this should end by this time, and I know I'll be checking periodically by this. This needs to be done by this cage I finished. After that, I move on to another one. I start it. New ones here. Mungine akimbise. You get so I'm good at, and I think also that's why I thrived a lot better at startups, not in very big organizations. Because others already everything is established. Yeah, it's structured. Mimi do I'm good at now creating the structures for you. Like I want to come somewhere new and I was it's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

When you start off in a small company and you see the whole supply chain in action, and you have an understanding of how everything moves, is when you can move to a bigger company. So because by then, maybe give it give yourself two, three, maybe two, even to five years. You've got an understanding of how everything works.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

And on average, actually by the year four, you're like, okay, here, but there's nothing more to need. I need to. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

So you move, you shift to a bigger organization. Now you know my my my strength is in maybe detail drawings, I'm a rendering, I'm uh construction project management. I'm just being insight.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

You get oh, yeah, because also atta as an employee, I think I was a lot, a lot better at detailing. Like I'm like me at a concepts msingangane kun nyambia. So at that time, I was like, fanyini concepts inu ni nini when niambia too indu mnataka, indo mme agree. Wachani wachorevili enafay jengue size. Yes, yes, but zingine sa seem to a site a chwe. Mimi to fighting maliza lafu m niambia.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

But there are people who are just very, very good. Okay. Yeah, but let's say some part of it comes naturally. But there's some people who just they are just good at sidewalk. Kabisa, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

There's some who thrive, Kabisa.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

They thrive there.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

In fact, it reminded me, there's this guy we used to work in one of the farms I used to work, and now the sister company and on the construction company. He was a really good one. Yani mkitaka to your site to keep it because also sometimes site to neze ka atta contractory. Ada your best found is na bad or how to get it. Haita they find two things happen here, you're like, I nay bone. Him, as long as your site, na wende, aki you don't even need to do the the week, you just need to come once a week and just check he was good.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

He was for so for some people that that thing comes comes naturally. So it all it all depends, it's very dependent on where you start your internship and when you where you start your initial year in the industry to d dictate a lot about the years coming forward. The years coming forward, you get so that was me, that was around uh 2016. I've gotten my internship, my first year, I'm employed, and I'm learning a lot in this process. But uh at the same time, I'm also juxtaposing my experience versus my coursework. And there's a lot of there's a lot, there's a very huge gap. And now in the subsequent years, I was questioning the coursework because it it wasn't just an exception with me. The people I uh I interacted with in the industry, the people I interacted with with in other industries, even the legal industry. They're telling me there was a huge difference between my coursework and the industry. So I was thinking about this thing sometime late last year, and I was thinking the best coursework should have should allow for very little in terms of internship or industrial attachment.

SPEAKER_04 55:51

Very little.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Yes. This is what I mean. You should be ready to participate in the industry. You should be as ready as possible. There should not be such a huge gap that you feel the impact of I am not ready, I was not ready in our own. But how would you propose that? By looking at what the industry needs. You get it, you get in touch with the industry experts, the people like us. Having podcasts like this, allowing people to share the experiences. You get who are these that have been there in the industry long enough that they can tell us this is what the industry looks like looks like. This is how it's going to look like in the next five to ten years. How can we come up with uh coursework that will allow people to be as ready as possible within those four years or within those three years? As ready to be consumed by the industry as possible by the time they graduate. So that you are graduating on Friday, Monday or site, and you're doing what is needed to be done. And you can carry your own weight during the this process. So if you need three months to then adapt to the industry, it means that there's something that the course work didn't do. You understand? Yeah, so we need to look at this from the end, from the from the finish line, moving forward moving back. And I think that is something that from my my my university and even from people from uh established institutions like UN, the the the the major the major contributors of graduates when it comes to interior design, Marcelo University, UN and of late NIT, right? But most of the people I've interacted with, especially from UN and Maseno, they've told me the same thing. There was a huge difference between my coursework and I got this shock when I got into my into my internship. But you learn eventually to adapt into the industry. And also another thing when it comes to selecting your or maybe this this might be out of uh the scope because you do not know how the coursework looks like. But where you go for your for your coursework also determines a lot about it.

SPEAKER_04 58:00

But you know, you know the usual show. Like I remember me in Kichichaguayango, there was the whole everything you're going to learn, the curriculum. Yeah. Iliqa online.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

But I think it's online. But or you don't know what to expect, you don't know what to expect, and you don't you do not know the outcome because I think we we we we we are very different. Let's say we when I say we I mean Maseni University versus UN. UN people are very different when it comes to how they they conduct themselves with their projects versus uh Mason University. One thing I learned I learned about UN people, they are very close-knit.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

Very. I've also learned that from the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

Very, very close-knit. I learned this through my former employer, my first employer rather, and even the people he worked around, he worked with. And not just in projects, even when you go for this uh, what do you call them? These uh networking events, they are very together. And I think that is something they learned in school. You get such that you'll find this guy was in fourth year, this guy was in second year.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

But wanna juan.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

But wanna juan. You get me mini key of first year for the years. Now I say the the people ahead of me, like you, quote within within uh that department. But how comes these people, wamezewana, this much, such that architects from your n wanajw interior designers, and interior designers wanna do QSs, QS wanajua architects, so it's it forms this uh sort of union amongst them, and they spread that collaboration into how they refer each other to job for jobs, exactly, and even how they work, they do a lot of JVs, they do a lot of referrals, actually, and that I've learned here on this seat.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

And I come to realize me, you are in, you are in, you are in. And actually remember in one episode, I'm it was me as an individual who was very alone to find a kazeaku no feature now, you know, kind of we're not sharing and we are not you get other than the people you're transniting with.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

But no, but even the people who used to maybe share uh rooms, the people who used to live together within the same course, they had the same same issue. You get, but when it comes to UN people, you can see it in the industry, you can see how they behave in the industry. They are very close-knit. And I think maybe it's in their course, how their course is structured. They are allowed to do a lot of presenting, they are allowed to showcase their work. For us, we have results to go even and I told that to someone.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:44

Oh, you know, like a presentation, so what do you call that?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

The the the the the document that would come with the project illegally. Like if you're doing furniture design, if this is your project, there was a document. There's some some kind of description. It's like a proposal kind of thing. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So that is that's how we conducted ourselves during our project. And I think we've carried that into the industry. So that guys from Maseno University, they are very kill and die on your own. Die. So me if like the people I collaborate with from Maseno, you can just collaborate on one job, it isa to napatanajobine. If a job is small enough, like something I can do by myself, I do it in a Madiza, I go to something else. But when it comes to collaborating, I only collaborate when I need to.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

But then they're always collaborating.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

They're always collaborating on something. You get they're always collaborating on even a lunch. Which is not bad, but it's very, very good in terms of how it enables them to move forward in the industry. Because the how uh the the the the togetherness, if I can, if I can call it that, it helps you a lot, even during downtime, because this thing is seasonal. You've sent pro you've done your part, you've sent proposals, you've made the phone calls, nobody's responding. But somebody just calls you out of nowhere. Funny gypsum, your drawings, yes. Turn up. So it's it's it's something I really, really admire in them. I wouldn't say uh I wouldn't say I envy them, but I admire them. We can learn. It's something you can learn. And given the amount of info the amount of knowledge I have gained since I started this industry, it's something you can learn. Something you can learn to to adapt in yourself, something you can learn to try, even with the people around you. Like now, somebody like you, you have a lot of contacts by just having this space. So it's very, very important to know those things before you select one where you want to go where you want to go where you want to go, two, where you want to go for your coursework, to where you want to go for your internship. It's going to shape a lot in the subsequent years. And the knowledge that you gain within the first maybe five years in the industry is going to take you for maybe between five to ten years. But after that, it's your reputation. Your reputation is going to take you another 10-20 years. So the moment you build a strong network within that first five-year frame, you're good to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:24

Yeah. Let me ask, just as we try to wrap up, uh is there a talent that you feel a hidden talent that you found out during this period of your career?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Patience. You just have to be patient with a lot of things, with a lot of people as well. Sometimes you you know you're sometimes you're right. By saying you don't want to deal with these people, sometimes you're right. But when it comes to I have had to develop skills. I developed graphic design and presentation skills during employment. The aim of that was to improve on my presentation process. Like if you're doing layouts, if you're doing uh 3D rendering. Initially at a school naju is taking fanya 3D. But I just taught myself, I just told myself, hey, Niaji, let me learn illustrate and maybe Photoshop and maybe in design. It's going to help me in how I present my work.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:29

But we did that as a unit in Campo.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:32

Sisia took fine. Tullifanya took graphic design. It was just no, Sisia took, I took fanny of the softwares. The people who did the softwares were more of a fine art students.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

Wait, but in my year, me or before you show uponi, they changed the system after.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

I don't know, but Sisia took one of the software.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

Because me, I remember in uni, because of that graphic design, whatever, I learned the whole Photoshop suit.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

Adobe suit, sorry. So Photoshop, Illustrator, Nini Nini. Yes, not to the pro level, but I can use all. Okay. I can use all as basic. You can do something. I can do something, not at least and present and start and finish. Not ill as a like a proper graphic designer, professional graphic designer, but all of them I managed to.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

The people who went in in-depth into these things were fine art students. Oh, really? They did the Adobe suit, they even did Corel. And they did they did it to the advanced level. I think they did the whole suit, including Premier, Premiere Pro for video editing and uh after effects.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

But CC interior design. Maybe they refined the syllabus.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Maybe they did, but for us as interior design, we just did graphic design. But there was no specification on this this software.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:44

Okay, they were not teaching us at the software shika Photoshop. As in we were told, isoot, yote, inakujanga nahi, he hi nahi software. And then you learn and me I learned all. Okay. I learned all during that period.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

I think me during that period, my emphasis was on AkiCard.

unknown 1:05:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

I did I did a lot. Especially during the long holidays. I did a lot of archikard and it was very, very fundamental in how I how I carried out carried out my coursework later on in third year and fourth year. Because I did, I think I did archicard on during second year. Second year long holiday. Third year long holiday, I worked with an architect as an intern. Paid intern. And it also gave me a uh an idea of how architects work. It's very, very interesting. Then after fourth year was when I I I got into uh attach in industrial attachment. So for me, it's it's all about the skills that I've acquired and the people that I've met along the way. And um coming up to up to this point, I think what I can advise somebody is where you're going to go for your internship. Very, very, very important. Start with a small farm, learn as much as possible. That is something I would tell my younger self. Stay there as long as you can. Maybe give yourself four to five years. Learn everything you can. Manage to even carry out a project by yourself from beginning to end. Go for the initial side site visit. You demand for that job. And be any aji, give me this job, go for the initial site visit. Talk to communicate with the client, do the quotation, you man the construction, you man the handover.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:32

You man the snugglies? Yes. Everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

That's how you learn. Once you can you can have command over a single project by yourself and even collaborate with a team within the office, once you can you can manage a department, even if it's a small department of two or three people, that's when you start knowing that you are ready for the for the next step. But until then, be patient.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:56

And I will use that as your advice to aspiring NTA designers. Be patient and also tell me on Albert's journey, what has stood up stood out to you? What would you like to add? What would you like to correct us respectfully? Cindy. And what would you want to contribute? Cindy. Yeah. So that we can all learn from each other. Yeah. So Albert, please let us know your handles. Socials, do we use it?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

My handles. You can include, um, just include my handle, Albert McCambi.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:27

Um yet to to to update my because most of most of my clients, it I think I told you on email, most of my clients have been just by word of mouth. Currently, um, if I can give an example, uh, we've had about since our inception in 2022. We've had about 40 clients, but over 120 projects. That tells you that most of our clients are repeat clients.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:53

Oh, Tufanyhi, to songge. Oh, Nikoning. What kind of projects do you typically do?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

Most have been uh residentials. Okay. Because my initial clients were residential clients. Now they kept referring me to for residential projects. Renovations or no, mostly renovations, mostly they were um first-time projects. Because you see, that period during uh after COVID, most people were constructing and then everything came to a halt. Now most people were trying to move into the shell houses, if I can call them that. Now they were trying to move away from paying rent while I have a house. Sini meeka wabati, siniing, albaapi. So kuja tuanze kito, tunanziya wapi, tuanziapa. So those were my first-time clients. And it rolled up into having so many residential clients, but you know, client ni client. You know, at a point you do not have the privilege of choice. You just have to do what is there. So most of our clients have been returned clients.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:58

So it's short, short, short, short, but you're moving around.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

But you're you're moving around. Got it. And at least so far we've been able to to complete 120 individual projects. So yeah, I cannot complain. Sometimes things are eevey easy. You see, I mean that's that's the the normal. Sometimes money is there, sometimes money is not there. But we thank God keep moving.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

And uh for for for I think for my next phase, I need to start called approaching people, social media. I was even talking to her, now be any you can ditch this lady ukujeku.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:37

Sema to sumatu. Mimiata for kasiango siata wuko.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

Yeah, so I think I need I need to venture more into social media marketing. I don't know, it's that's a completely new journey, but I need somebody to to do that for me. I'm not the best when it comes to social media. Yeah, but so far, one of word of mouth has has been very successful. Which is good. Which is good.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

At least if you keep getting repeat clients, it means you're also doing something right.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

Yes, yes, yes. Which is very, very important. I think for me, what what what I base my philosophy on is success requires sacrifice. And then on the altar of sacri uh of success, never sacrifice your reputation. You can sacrifice your time, you can sacrifice money comes and goes, you can sacrifice money. You can misquote a project and maybe make a loss, or maybe not make the profit margin that you wanted. But never sacrifice your reputation. You sacrifice your reputation building it up, it's going to take you a very, very long time. So I think that has guided me into having satisfied clients. Of course, maybe once in a while in a gonga inje, but so if I can say trying the best that you can. Just go out there and do your best. That's all the world needs.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:53

Yeah. Go out there and do your best. Thank you so much, Albert. With that, it's a wrap. Thank you so much. Thank you for honoring our invite.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Thank you for having me, man. Yeah. And thank you for having this place. You know, one thing I I I think I the first episode I saw was on IG last year. And I got curious. I know this chick. This chick used to be in Maseno. And Negasema, this was a very, very nice initiative. We never we've never had a voice for the industry. And that's how come most people look at this industry as a vocation, just as a hobby. By the way, it's very true. Because there was a there's a guy who does branding for me. Alicona NBA friend of ours moved from pharmacy into interior design. Cambia, how how do you do that? You cannot move from interior design into pharmacy.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:42

Pharmacy.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

They are going to they are going to get keep. They're going to say niage, who allowed you to be in this space. Because they are there's systems to put you in check to ensure that you are qualified in what you're doing. Why don't we have that? These are the conversations we need to have to ensure that our industry is kept. You can call it gatekeeping, but even what how can I say this? Even evolution has its own gatekeeping process. It's called natural selection. It has to select the best. And to ensure that our industry is safeguarded from what I can say, half-backed or crooks is to ensure that we have these conversations, we ask the right type of questions, and we put checks and balances to make sure that the best of us are participating in the industries as practitioners. And so having something like this, having a space where people can come and share their stories. I mean, you you've had how many guests so far?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:38

35, but only I think the 30th. No. I think 38, if I'm not wrong, but only 29 are up now, and one drops tomorrow. Okay. Because in Guinea, do I usually do a lot of shoots just in case you fall sick? You need you have epistles that go up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

That's a that's a good uh that's a good initiative. So you've I mean you've you've listened to people's stories, Cindy. You know people out there, they have so many stories. And I think sharing these stories encourages people, it gives you an insight into how interior design is as an industry and how to to navigate this industry. So, yeah, this is a stepping block towards the right decision, towards the right uh direction direction. So, kudos to you as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:24

Thank you so much. Subscribe now watching. Yeah, we tell them stop being selfish, tell them, subscribe to Delty Bold.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:35

Subscribe uh weather, IG, TikTok, and YouTube. Cindy, awesome!

SPEAKER_04 1:14:41

Thank you so much with that, guys. Until next time, see ya. Thank you so much. Subscribe, like, share. Until next time, bye.