S2, Ep.4 Claire's post-surgery reality: The good, the hard and everything between.

Claire is back in your ears <3

If you’re new here we suggest that you go back to Episode 8 and listen to the first half of Claire’s story.

This episode honestly just feels like three girls having a yap on a rainy Sunday afternoon. We chat about the reality of life after a double mastectomy, the emotional rollercoaster of recovery, body image, and the really hard feeling of not getting the pathology results Claire was hoping for after surgery.

There’s laughter, honesty, a few deep moments, and lots of the stuff people don’t really talk about enough once the surgery is actually over. We always love having Claire on and we know so many of you are going to feel less alone listening to this one.

🎧 Follow the journey on Instagram & TikTok: @bitsandboobs.podcast
✨ Connect with us: @dakotamiddleby & @biancainnes

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hi, I'm Bianca and I'm Dakota. And we're two girls in our 20s that have experienced cancer. We're talking everything you don't find in the brooches. We're raw, we're rogue, and we're not afraid to share everything that cancer encompasses. Buckle up because we're really going there. Welcome to Bits and Boobs.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Welcome back to Bits and Boobs, Claire. We are so excited to welcome you back again. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

I'm so excited to catch up.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

No, it'll be so, so good. It's we're all catching up on a Sunday afternoon. It's like three girlfriends catching up over coffee or a wine, whatever you choose. Whatever sort of day you've had.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Look, it's a rainy day and I've got the kids inside, so it's probably more of a wine day, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Yeah, the kids are out for me at the moment. And then when they come back, I'm hoping I have like an hour maybe to just chill, have a wine, cook dinner, relax.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

It's raining, must be raining everywhere at the moment, I reckon. Except for Melbourne, because you're in Tussie, it's raining in the goghost. I feel like it's been raining the last three weeks. Yeah, it's just so wet.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

And it sucks when the whole everything's wet. You can't clean the house. The whole house feels so dirty because of just like I have dogs, the dogs are running in. It's just, oh, I can't stand it. Anyway, so moving on to what we are talking about this week. The last time we spoke to you was episode eight, and it was at the beginning of October for breast cancer awareness month. So we were, you're about to go in for your mastectomy appointment. So we would love for you just to catch up our listeners and what's been happening and catch up us as well. Absolutely. So a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

A lot. Especially when I look back to that now, and I I did mention this breaking the fourth wall just quickly, just before we started recording, and I was like, I'd so I'd just hit halfway in my canoe treatment. See October. Wow. Um, and I distinctly remember we had this amazing chat, super positive. I was still on my, I think it was a Friday, so I'd had my chemo on the Thursday. It was the Friday, and I know because I was still in a bit of a steroid high. Seriously, take your steroids. Yeah. The day before the day of the couple of days after chemo, so they kind of keep me going and a bit buzzed. And I was like, oh, this is so great. I'm kicking cancer's ass, whatever. And then that next week, at some point, I just remember everything came crashing down a little bit, and reality almost has hit me, and I was like, wow, I'm halfway. But that also means I have to do all of that again. You know, the three rounds of I had three more to go. And um, for those who aren't aware the type of chemo that I have, because there's many different types that I was having, um, it builds up over time in your system as well. So I was kind of at that halfway point where, you know, it was there. I was, you know, having kind of rough days post-chemo, but that definitely built up a lot more in my system. So yeah. So I would have, yes, had that surgical consult, had that bit of a period where I was just like, wow, okay, where I'm really in this now. This is almost like I looked at and went, holy shit, this is really happening. Because everything feels like it happened so fast, and life is still happening outside of that, obviously, which is busy. Um, and then I just went, Yeah, shit, I've got to do that again.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

So Yeah, there was a game as well, I reckon. Like it's you're crossing the map, but then when you get to that point, you're like, oh, hold on, we're just doing like, yeah, it's great, we're getting closer, but it means we also have to do that all over again. That's the also like the juggling part of the numbers.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

It's like a bit of sweet thing. You're kind of excited for it to be like so much more further within the journey, but then you also know how yuck you're gonna feel. So it's like a bit weird because you're like, oh, we're nearly there, but like you're still like, oh, but I don't want to do it. It's such a weird thing.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Exactly. Yeah. What I was gonna say is that when you're looking at it like that, I swear it's like it can be so positive, but it can also be such a head fuck. And it's like depending on what side of the bed you woke up on that day, is the way it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

And I don't think like that's spoken about enough because we feel like, oh, we should be like so positive. Like we're yep, we're kicking ass. And then, but we don't talk about those really low days that it's like, holy fuck, like I'm going through something so traumatic. And I've got to juggle bills, a household, kids, like there's just because life doesn't stop.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah. No, 100%. And I feel like, you know, without being all negative about it, because absolutely I'm positive 80% of the time. Yeah. But you know, the reality is, and I think for anyone that's listening that might be going through their own treatment or they're supporting someone that is like it is important to know that it's so fine to have those days. And I also remember I did pull my phone out and I recorded myself and I just chatted away and I went the whole cancer thing. I I remember it distinctly, and I said the whole cancer things just really hit me this week. And I just saved that video for a bit for myself, and then I actually posted it because I've shared a little bit along the way um on social media as well. And I remember like a few days later, when I was feeling great again and all positive, I jumped on my stories and I said, Look, this is me today, feeling super positive, lots of energy through the bad days. This was me about four days ago, and like here's the difference, basically. So you know, the first one I was like in my wig, feeling all fresh, all good, and then reverse back four days, boldy, very sad, not loving life, sorry, just to kind of show that, you know, for want of a better term, that roller coaster. So and I thought as well, that'd make people feel so sane. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, which I think we need more of for sure. Like I know when I was diagnosed, I one of the first things I did once I got my head around it all was go looking for podcasts to listen to, to be like, I need to hear other people who've gone through this stuff. And I know Bianca, I'm pretty sure an episode you did it was either like Darling Shine or um Fia or something, or maybe both.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

And I definitely listened to your episodes, and I was like, oh, okay. There's someone who's just speaking about their experience, and it was so good. So, yeah, in that sense, what you guys are doing, it's absolutely, you know, we love them.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And how nice to be able to listen to people's journey because everyone's is so goddamn different, everyone's age is different, everyone's got different family circumstances. Like, it's just it's really nice to listen to other people because you don't feel so alone, even though you know not everyone's is the same. It's just like, oh, okay, cool. They're going through their own shit in that way, and I'm going through my own shit in this way. Like, it's like, I don't know, it's nice to know that we're all going through it, but like we're keeping our head up and then we can still vent to each other. Like, how many times have we all sent voice notes to each other and just been like, exactly? But then been like, oh, I'm feeling good today. You know, it's just a literal roller coaster.

unknown 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

And I think too, when you're like when you're in it and you're looking for resources, I think the episode actually that follows after Claire's is your um episode decoder that you did of letters that I wish that I could have told myself, which I think is such a good episode. Yeah. Because you talk about how don't Google, like Google isn't your best friend, and then how do you think you want to?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

You want to so bad. You're like, am I going to not gonna say? Am I gonna die?

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Like literally, like just for just for being brutally honest, that's literally what you're thinking. Yeah, and because it's not like you look on the news and you sadly like we're not seeing all these great news stories of people beating cancer. We're seeing, you know, these incredible people that have had these big full lives sadly losing their life to cancer. Yeah. So to be able to bring something to these people that isn't doom and gloom, it's not comparative, but it's like, yeah, okay, they can pull a couple of takeaways that might help them, not now, might be six months later. Yeah. But like the last thing you want to do is have someone be like, oh, it's okay. You're grateful that you're here today. Hold on, I'm having the worst day. Like, just sit in my shoes for a second. Yeah, yeah. And being able to find the balance of that and allow people to feel it, because so many people just think, oh, I should be grateful, like, and that that comparison happens. So I think that's so amazing that you're showing that because it's the stuff that so many people wouldn't be showing.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah. And you know what? I know Clay, you're gonna get to this, but I'm dying to like unpack your feelings of when you you weren't sure if you were gonna do more chemo again as well, like after surgery and stuff like that. So I think because that was the exact same thing that happened to me, and then I'm like the way that I dealt with it, I'm just dying to hear like how you felt about that as well. Because when we spoke, remember, you were like, I don't know, like chemo is gonna be kind of done. So I know you're gonna get to that, but I'm just like sitting there and waiting. Because I didn't want to ask you about that. I know like you would go into a lot of detail on the podcast, but I'm just like it's so crazy because it's just something where we never knew, right? We was just like, I'm gonna be finished and doing my surgery, and then it's like slap in the face.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, we'll definitely talk about that. So sorry, I just sort of massive tender. No, but anyway, I digress.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

So like going back to where you were because I love listening to everything. Yeah, let's go back to where you were saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, last chat halfway. So following that, I had obviously some kind of surgical follow-up at some point. I don't even really remember that now, but I would have had that. Um, made it through my last three rounds. So I did six rounds of what's called TCHP chemo, which I think, and I've mentioned this before, I think it's important for people to understand as well, not all chemos are created equal. Because I think this is another thing, and this could just be because I'm in a bit of a cancer bubble as well. But you see, you may see certain people that are going through chemo, but they might still be working, they're still going to the gym, they're still kind of living their life not normally, as we know, because it's absolutely not normal to be going through these treatments. But there are some where you can still manage daily life, and there are some where they do really knock you for sick. So as I mentioned before, this particular one builds up in your system over time. And I do definitely remember my very last one, so my sixth round, I'd kind of made it through okay until that point. Like I had a week or so where I feel pretty rubbish, but I was still trying to, you know, drop the kids at school and pick them up and be there for all of their activities when I could. I certainly couldn't all the time.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

But that last one, I think I was in bed for about seven days straight. Like I literally only got up to like go to the toilet and fill up my drink bottle. And then I just feel like just need to lay straight back down. I couldn't even like watch a screen. And I remember describing it to my husband, Luke, and I was like, I just feel toxic. Like I can just feel all this, these chemicals in my body right now, and I just feel toxic. And exactly what I felt like.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Did you smell it? Did you smell it? Yes. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 11:01

I'm like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

When I had mine, I remember going to the toilet that night and my Wii was bright red. Yeah, it was bright red from the chemo and it just stunk. Yeah, it was like it was honestly so so toxic. And the fact that it had come through my urine and completely like it was like I was like bleeding for my kidneys. It was awful. You would have been scared thinking, what is this? Like, am I okay? Oh no, I was so like they prepare you for it. Okay, you're so they said call it so.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Oh, the that's basically the red one.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Yeah, yeah, that was horrific. And so, like when those sort of things happen, like you're saying, like you feel that accumulation in your body. And it's kind of the same, I think, with radiation from my experience anyway. That when it actually hits you, you literally feel like a walking biohazard. Like you feel like you've got these beans coming out of you. And it's I don't know if it's maybe psychological too, and knowing like what you've has been put through your body, it's in the big blacked-out bags. Everyone's gowned up when they're giving it to you, and you're just sitting there, kind of you feel like a bit of a guinea pig. And when it's accumulated, you're like, oh my, it's actually hit me. Like it's you can see it in the beginning, you lose your hair, all the things, but when you physically start feeling it, it's like, oh wow. It's I feel like it's another like a chapter marker of the chemo journey in itself.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah. A hundred percent. And I mean, it means it's working, right? It's in your system, it's doing its job. And yeah, yeah. And for me, like I could physically feel it working because my quite considerable lump that I could feel was basically like on the front of my right breast was like completely gone, which was amazing in my oncologist. Yeah, it was unreal. And my oncologist was always super happy and super positive about that the whole way through. He's like, Wow, like couldn't believe you know how well it was responding.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Um positive for your mindset too, yeah to tangibly feel it.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yes, that that was really important. I've actually got um a friend of a friend here locally who's just started going through the same exact same treatment with the same cancer. And yeah, and I said to her, I was like, look, if you can feel your lump, just keep feeling because you really should start to feel that go away. And that that definitely really helped me. Even after one or two, that works.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you had that experience, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Well, my book.

SPEAKER_06 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Crazy. My boob, like I used to think, well, why have I always got one boob so much bigger than the other? And like I look back now and I'm like, holy shit, no wonder why. Because it was literally the size of an egg. And as soon as it started to go down, my other boob started to be bigger than that. So that's why I was like, oh my god, I knew it was working. And that gives you that peace of mind to be like, I'm gonna fucking get through this because I know that this is working and I can feel it going down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, that was a huge mental thing, definitely, to have that physical reminder that it's working was amazing. So yeah, got through that last one, had a couple of celebratory lunches, you know, all that kind of thing. Chemo's done. That's good. Um, yes. And in the meantime, actually, we also moved house and started renovating, God knows how, but did manage to be. You were just about to move in in two weeks of the last episode. Yes, yeah. So we sold our one, moved into a new place, started renovating. So that, and that was just that's a me thing too. Like keeping busy really helped me because I stopped working, so that was like a really good thing to focus on. Keep busy. So that kind of all happened in the meantime as well. So, fast forward to so chemo finished around mid-November, and then my surgery fell on the 9th of December. So I had about a well just on a month, I think, in between finishing chemo and my surgery. So my surgery was uh double mastectomy.

SPEAKER_06 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

And I was recommended by my surgeon to have that without immediate reconstruction due to the fact that I would be having radiation as well. So that came after. So my surgery fell on the 9th of December. So obviously, crazy busy time of year, right? Christmas. School's finishing, yeah. And I remember pick a worse time, really. Yeah, and I was like my logistically, it was so hard. And my surgery day fell the day before my daughter finished school for the year.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

So and like all the Christmas concerts and like all the school awards things, I can imagine it just would have been go, go, go, especially having a school-aged kid as well, as in kindy too.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah, yeah, so hectic. So just a really busy time. So that but again was almost a blessing because it just like keeps you going, keeps you going. You know, you're just on that kind of fast track to the end of the year. So yes, double mastectomy, flat closure, still flat now, very flat. Um, and then got through that recovery, it's pretty good. I found it relatively simple. So I had three nights in hospital. Did you have the dragon? Yeah, so I had four. They took two out in hospital. Yeah, I had two on each side. So one each, one in each of my arm pits, and then one like into the breast area. And so I came home with two, and I had those two for I think like 11 days. Wow, and do they take any lymph nodes out as well in the surgery? Yes. So I had a full auxiliary clearance on the right hand side. So for me, that was 15 lymph nodes. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Do you still not feel um like yeah, how completely numb too? And if you spray deodorant, I actually had to stop like spraying one, it's actually bad, but now I use a roll on, so I can feel my like lean it against there because otherwise I'd spray, spray, spray, and it'd be white. And I'm like, because you can't feel it going on there. I made two hours. It's bit PMI quickly, but I made my nipple bleed the other day because I couldn't feel it. Like I was literally like, I don't know why, but I because I can't feel my nipple, I was squeezing it. Oh no, I don't know why, and there was like a little scratch on there, and I just thought it was like a freckle or something stuck to me. Anyway, I just started like scratching it off because he can't feel it. Blood. And I'm like, how can I be bleeding and not feel anything? But that's how weird the having the like that surgery thing is, isn't it? It's like odd. It's so strange.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

I would always like when my Bob was littler and you'd have him on your hip, and they play with the back of your arm, and he'd be pinching, pinching, pinching until he'd get to a point that it's like he's really hurt it. So I'm like, oh, ow, you bruised it. And it's like, oh, it's because it's fully numb. And it's like you look and it's a bruise because he's just been like gnawing at it the whole time with his fingers. Oh so how have you found that um the movement and stuff, especially with the double mastectomy and having the clearance?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I I was pretty stiff, definitely, for the first couple of weeks, like when it would I'd be trying to lift my arm and things. So I was like, yeah, I mean, they obviously tell you not to as well, but it's kind of getting the glass out of a cupboard or something. Well, it's hard not to, especially when you've got kids, or like trying to close the boot of the car or whatever. Um, generally, I found it like in general, not too bad, but yeah, that movement was definitely limited, and for sure the numbness is weird. Um but in terms of recovery, like I I mean I can't remember the timeline, but like I said, I had the surgery on the ninth. I was in hospital for three nights. It must have only been less than a week later. My littlest had her swimming lesson, and I was like, well, I feel fine. I'm gonna go to swimming lessons. And I do remember because I still have my I still have my drain bag on, so oversliced shirt on, you know, over the top of the bag. Off to swimming lessons, I went. Obviously, I couldn't drive.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

You're literally a weapon. I know, I always say that too.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Seriously. You're a superwoman.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

I I didn't go to swimming lessons on Wednesday because I had my period. I said, I was like, um, Nick, you can take him. I've got my period. I don't have to get in the water, mind you. I just didn't want to go.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

And if you are, like just, yeah, stuff it. Let's go. Double mastectomy, full clearance. Let's go to swimming lessons. Oh, you put me in my place. I'm a good lighting.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Trust me, I have more moments. I was probably just getting a little bit sick of myself by now. I was like, I need to get on this down.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

You might have been a little bit high on pain meds too. I don't know. It could be something.

SPEAKER_06 19:23

Possibly.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Whatever it is, you still went, so you're still a weapon. Yeah. So I I digress. Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

That's so fine. So fine. So um, yeah, so we got through that, got the drains out eventually. That must have been just before Christmas, actually. A couple of days before Christmas. Trains out. So then I would say I had kind of a break, but I didn't really, because I was coming backwards and forwards for appointments. So we always go like an hour away to the beach during that kind of Christmas new period. I actually got a really bad cold as well. I made it all the way through chemo without getting sick. My daughter actually had influenza Ahee. But like just after I finished my last round of chemo, and I was like, oh my god, there is no way that I'm not touching this. My immune system would by some miracle I didn't get it. Because I was thinking if I get sick, I'm not gonna be able to have this surgery. Anyway, by some miracle, coming and going from school and daycare and all the rest, didn't get sick. Got really sick around Christmas time, Christmas day. I was actually really unwell. So our Christmas was kind of a not event, which did make me really sad because I was just like, God, I've missed enough the last six months, and now I'm basically missing Christmas. So that was pretty hard. Um, anyway, we still went away, had a lovely time. I was backwards and forwards, like I said, for various appointments. And then I started radiation just towards the end of January. So that ended up falling, I'm gonna say five or six weeks, I think. I was right on the cusp of about just about how long they let you go between having your surgery and then starting radiation, just because of I think that time of year. And they don't want to start even a public holiday and things because you obviously want to get a few days.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Yeah, especially around that time of year.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

My radiation fellow in the same as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Oh, so with radiation, do you have to because I was gonna say they stopped. I don't know why they I didn't ever did mine, but I was gonna say, d do you go straight from surgery to radiation with your doctor? Is that how they work? You don't wait to get results from the pathological stuff? Is that how that no, sorry?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

I missed that part. No, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Because I was like, oh, I wonder if that would have made a difference with the radiation pending those results, but I guess because that's what happened to me. So I was like, I wonder, but maybe because Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

No, so for me, you just remind me though, because I did miss a really important step. So I had a catch up with my and I wish I remember, I should have gone back and looked at dates of this stuff. Sorry, but I think this was just before Christmas. It would have been just before Christmas as well. So I caught up with the surgeon to get the results from my surgery because, like I said. Everything looked super positive, couldn't feel anything anymore, had a PET scan. That all showed like my body had responded incredibly well to the chemo. No evidence, no evidence of disease. Happy days. I decided not to celebrate that though, because I knew that the most important thing is to get that complete pathological response post-surgery. And I feel like there is a lot of, you know, you hear this, you want a CPR, you want a CPR. Like that's you want that complete pathological response after chemo. You want to know that it's done its job and happy days. Anyway, I didn't get that. So I caught up with the surgeon, and there was around a three-meter site that had, as they said, a scattering of cells that were still cancerous in my breast tissue. So when they pulled it out, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

They tested it. That's what happened. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

So they take the breast tissue away, test it. So you have to wait for that to come back, which is, as we all know, the waiting game in the whole cancer process, not fun at all. So that's a very unfun one as well, waiting for those results. Anyway, so didn't get a complete pathological response. So what that meant for me was rather than just having her septin, which is a targeted therapy, I'm now on what's called a TDM1 chemo, which I guess the best way to describe it is like a supercharged Herseptin. So we get to have hair. I can talk about it finding now. Yes, you get to have hair. Yes. Oh my gosh. Um, so I can talk about that fine now, but I'm not gonna lie, like when I first heard that, I was a mess. Like all I wanted was good news heading into Christmas and summer, and I didn't get it, and I was really upset about it. And that was definitely one of those times when it was like a scream-cry in the car situation, you know, just really like, oh my god, why? kind of thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

And did you feel like to kind of think back to that time, like what was because I think this will be really important for listeners that are in the exact same situation, I didn't have a pathological response either. And so I know that for me it was not to put words in your mouth, but for my experience, I felt really disappointed in myself and I shouldn't have, because I can look back that on hindsight, and that's not like I didn't bring the cancer on my body, so I can't, you know, I'm relying on all this medicine. But that was a bit of a hurdle for me to go through. So if you can kind of speak to that, if you had any of those experiences.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah, 100%. I did. I was like, could I have been doing anything to support myself through this? Yeah, like the what it helped my body to have yeah. 100%. And I probably was quite hard on myself about it, and just generally just really upset that it meant that I couldn't just be done with it. Yeah. I've since come to learn that I don't think you're ever just done with it anyway. Sorry, but I think at that point you do just put all this kind of pressure, self-inflicted pressure or pressure, I think externally a little bit as well, because there's so much, you know, that's put around having this positive result after surgery. And then when you don't get it, I I was prepared because I'd spoken to an oncologist about it. I said, So can you just give me the full rundown of what happens if I don't get this response? And so I I felt prepared, which for me was really good because it wasn't like you weren't blinded now. Yeah. So I felt good that I had the knowledge of what was going to happen. So yeah, it was it was really hard. And then I had a few conversations with family and my husband, Luke, and and all the rest. And we kind of went, look, let's look at this as an insurance policy. Those cells were in the breast tissue that's no longer on my body. So could there be some little cells floating about? Possibly. Could there be none? Also a possibility. So, and the fact is that so this treatment will only find those bad ones and target only them if they're there. Um which is amazing. Like we love modern medicine. So I had to flip my yeah, I had to flip my mindset and go, do you know what? I actually have this amazing opportunity to have this extra treatment now and know that every three weeks I go and I have this insurance policy, which is amazing. Is it hard still going in there every three weeks? Absolutely, but it's also you just gotta do it. You just gotta get it done. It's just another part of this process that you don't really have that much choice in the matter, and you've just got to do it and get it done and be grateful that the opportunity is there because I mean, I could be completely fluffing dates here, but I feel like around 10 years ago, even this particular treatment. Oh, it wasn't around in 2017 when I had it. I would not be here. Yeah, yeah. So how amazing that you know we have access to it. So it's incredible. Definitely split the mindset that way. It is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

So very lucky.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Exactly, exactly. So I knew that I was going to have to start that, but in between time I did have to have radiation. Um, in my experience, they wanted to, they didn't want my tedium one and my radiation to overlap. They wanted to get my radiation fully complete. So for me, that was 15 rounds. So it took about three weeks. You went every day. Daily meeting treatments. Yeah. Every day, yeah. We'll fight like the weekdays, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

And yeah, so going in there every day, which again by this stage, you know, kids are going back to school and it's the new year and everything's busy, and here I was just like going backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards to the cancer clinic. So again, mentally that can be a little bit tricky, but again, got it done. The radiation team were amazing, so beautiful and lovely, and make it, you know, as easy as possible. How did you find through the experience of radiation?

SPEAKER_04 27:45

Did you find it um easy comparative to chemo, or was it a different experience? Like how did you kind of find that?

SPEAKER_01 27:52

So everyone says that radiation is so much easier, which yes, comparatively it is, but I know for me I went in going, this is gonna be so easy, it's gonna be fine. But it's still an unfamiliar experience that you have to go through that's still just not that pleasant. You know, for me, they do this like a planning, what they call like a planning CT scan, where they have to line you up on the bed so they know exactly to the point, whatever of a millimeter where they're gonna be radiating, which for me was yeah, a chain, the chain of lymph nodes down the center of my chest. They wanted to do the chest wall, my um collarbone, because I did have a lymph node here that was um lit up on a scan initially, and obviously my armpit as well. And that process involves, you know, laying on a bed fully naked from the top down while they line you up with all of these beams. And at this stage, I'm more like maybe a month or so post this surgery, laying in a room with three radiation technicians while lovely, yeah, and doing everything right to make you feel comfortable. I think I just wasn't prepared for that. You know, you're just laying there so exposed and vulnerable, which you know, I I wish that I probably was a bit more prepared for that. I guess.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

And I guess for them, make it lovely, but nothing to them, but for me, it's your first time taking your top off or top off after you've had both of them removed. Like it's it is a very big mental game. And then I mean, what I found as well is then when they leave and you actually start the sessions, you're in there for the 15 minutes, and it's like, what am I gonna think about? I'm just being zapped. So that was hard too.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Totally, totally. And like I said, they're so like they make it as pleasant as possible, and they've seen this a million times before, but it's it's like anything medically like that. You go, Oh, okay, this feels quite vulnerable. But yeah, yes, once you're in there with the sessions, they were pretty good. They'd always say, What sort of music do you want on today? And they'd put like a playlist on or something and always just try and make it really nice. Um, and it was quick, but yeah, your mind definitely wanders, I think, at times like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Um I think that yeah, radiation doesn't get given, it doesn't really get spoken about as much as chemo because chemo is like you can physically uh well, a lot of the time. I mean, look at you two, you've both got beautiful hair. So I eat my word saying that about chemo, but traditionally you associate chemo with losing your hair, and then radiation, it's just like, oh yeah, you just do it every day for a couple weeks and then you're out of there. But it's actually a lot more in that, I think. And so for people, because some people just get diagnosed and they're they're they just have their radiation. So I think it has to be spoken about as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

True. Some people don't do the chemo, do they like to turn radiation? I think like what my nonal did when he had lung cancer. Actually, he didn't go through chemo, he just chose to do radiation. But that was like 15 years ago. So I don't know, things maybe if it happened now, probably would be different, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:53

Like, yeah, who I mean, like look back from 2017 to now, like there wasn't I had to do red devil chemo for that because I didn't have the response. So it's just everyone's journey is so, so different. I hate that word journey, but I know yeah, I know. So different. Like there's so I yeah, like just hearing everyone's experiences with it, I think you never know who that's gonna help. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

And it is, like I say, comparatively walk in the park. Everyone's lovely, they make you feel very comfortable. You walk you do, you walk into the radiation clinic, and I mean for me it was always so busy, so many different people in there, and I did often sit there thinking, like, I wonder where they're zapping you today. Where are they zapping you today? Yeah, so true, you know, like because it's it's wild how many people are going through this stuff every single day, and you just have no idea. So exactly, um yes. Anyway, ticked that off the list, which was great, and then did feel very fatigued after that, though, which they do warn you about. They say be prepared to feel fatigued, and definitely in the fortnight following radiation. I was like quite tired. Um yeah, I not terribly. I peeled a little bit in my armpit, and that was quite pigmented. And then on my chest, it was really red and bumpy and itchy. It was really, really itchy um for a couple of weeks. My the clinic here uses the Mepatyl film, which is like a clear film?

SPEAKER_04 32:20

I remember you messaging me about it. I've never heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, it's just designed to protect your skin. It's literally it's like a gland wrap that just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

So what it's just like a massive kind of band-aid that goes over the area?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And it's just to protect your skin, and you leave that on for as long as possible afterwards, and then after that, just lots and lots and lots of moisturizing, basically.

SPEAKER_04 32:42

Wow, that's so cool that they can do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Now I ask, are you still getting scans throughout like this round, like how they've given you an X amount of um TDMX1? Do you still getting your scans throughout, or are they just like, okay, see out your next lot of chemo of how long they've given, and then they'll do a scan at the end of that. Like, how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

I'm having, and see, this is one of those things that seems so different for everyone as well. I'm having a CT scan. I've got to have my routine heart scan, which you have as part of still as part of this treatment pre-monthly. Yes. So I've got that in a couple of weeks. And then in June, mid-June, I'm having a CT.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

So that will be almost 12 months since I was diagnosed. So I was diagnosed on the 2nd of July. So we're creeping up to that time. So yeah, for me, it's gonna be a CT.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

What about your making sure you're doing like brain MRIs and everything everywhere as well?

SPEAKER_01 33:39

I only thought of you the other day when I was and I was like, oh my god, I need to. So I'm not currently planned to have that, but I really not have one at all. So nah. No, no, I haven't had a brain scan or anything.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

So I think I probably get me into that. Why is that? Is it because it's not profited?

SPEAKER_00 33:56

I'll tell you why living through it. So what happens is I got my pathological clearance, as you guys know, but it was because I was physically in the hospital. I don't know if it was because it was so quick. I mean, because I was in in the private area doing the surgery, so I don't know if it's they were like did that quickly. And I was like, oh my god, cheering, happy, blah, blah, blah. And then it was like five weeks later and I started to get the headaches, but I was like wondering if maybe the chemo at the time, like because it was there, was stopping those headaches. I'm not sure. But the reason they don't do the brain MRI is because the reason she never did it is because when they did the full body scan, if, for example, they'd found it on my lungs or um my liver, then they would have done the brain MRI because it usually goes breast tissue, nodes, liver, lung, and then it goes to the brain. So mine was a very rare case that it went from breast node to brain, because and they were like, what the hell? That's why they didn't check that, because apparently it's super rare for that to go there first. So that's why they never checked. Wait, if they checked and there was liver and kidney, then they would have been like, oh, absolutely, we'll do the brain as well. But yeah, I don't know. And that's why the only reason I say that to people, because it's like I never had it on my liver or lungs, and it's still clear everywhere else. And I get my scale.

SPEAKER_04 35:11

So do you like and that that poses then the question of do you just sit and wait as a sitting duck until you get headaches? Like, why is it this thing?

SPEAKER_00 35:19

I don't get headaches anymore because as soon as the chemo started, my headaches were gone. And it was like I was on the steroids for the two weeks straight to stop those headaches at the start. But like, you know, now obviously there's barely anything in the brain, but it was like it must have been as soon as I stopped the chemo that it was the headaches were there. But anyway, I just always say to people, there's no harm in just being like, Look, put my hand up, I want to fucking pay for it, let me do it. Like, yeah. And I think that I don't know if that's like different way clear too and be like, I'm fully done with this now, and you'll know for sure, like you'll just be like, I mean, I'm yeah, I reckon you would have had signs, but it's so good to be able to like, if you are going through all of this, to wash your hands and be like, you know what, I'm just done everywhere, and I know for a fact now I am a free woman, you know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah, I think that's a really good point, actually. Mental note to go for it.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Um I don't want to scale word anything like that. And I'm so like see it things like that. I just am so disappointed in like me not having someone kind of slam that in my face where I'm like, I feel like my situation maybe could have been different, but I'm like, at the same time, it is what it is. But I just always like think, oh, you know what? If I can kind of like keep saying it and hope people just do it as well. It's like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

No, I 100% agree with you, 100%. Because it's like, yeah, if you have access to these full body scans and you can get this stuff looked into, then why wouldn't you want to look? So it was actually my radiation oncologist who recommended me having the CT, and she said obviously, like they don't want to overload you with too many scans because then you are having, you know, obviously more radiation than going through your body as well. Yeah. But yeah, that's a good point. I might actually question them on that.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah, I'm just gonna do that. You know what's so good though, just the TDM one that we're both on is like it's um is amazing. Like, I just think I can't believe like, you know, you'd obviously be leaving when you were doing this thinking, like, oh my god, I'm it's working so well because it just is such a great target of therapy. Like to think that I had 20 plus tumors, like when we looked at those skills. I didn't look at them at the start because I I I physically could not look at them. And I mean three rounds, and that's when she was like, Oh, I cannot believe how much it's born. I was like, okay, now I'll look at the scans, but I was just like, wow, this TDM1 is absolutely amazing. Like, I just couldn't believe it that that is how it works. So, like, you know, you would I think it'd be the same with you everywhere else as well, which is so good. Exactly. It is you're right.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

It's I can't believe that's insane after three rounds of that that is.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Now there's like so apparently there's like the tiniest bit that they're calling micro in the back, which is wild. Wow. Yeah, so and that's only after, I mean, I've done 18 rounds. No, we might 18 round 18th round this Monday coming. Tomorrow.

unknown 38:01

Tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Oh yeah, tomorrow. You said it's tomorrow tomorrow. Yes, my 18th round tomorrow, but um, and then I get another scan as soon as I get back from Bali and I go to Bali next week. So I don't know. I they just think it's really hard for to break at the back. But I'm like, I just I know in my body that I'm getting it's it's it's getting better, you know? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

It's getting better, it's getting better.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yes, 100%. It is crazy, but we're so incredibly lucky to have access to that far out.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

I know, like what the hell? I can't believe like it's just amazing, and it's only been around for a few years. It's crazy. Wild. I'm doing what? Not the best. I can tell you a bit flat because I know your usual, like very, you know, you're like me, you're loud, you're outgoing, and like alert, and I can just tell you just you don't seem your full self. Not today, but just in general recently. I've made it.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

In general, yeah. So yeah, I suppose that that brings us up to now, really, doesn't it? So I've started the new chemo, the TDM on chemote. I've had four rounds of that now. So that's every three weeks as well. And again, you're kind of told this one's really easy to tolerate, etc. etc., which it is comparatively to the first one, but I still feel pretty rubbish for a couple of days. Rubbish in terms of I can function. I'm still doing the school run and and all the things, I just feel like I've got a pretty bad hangover, and even yesterday. So I had treatment Wednesday, and even most of the day yesterday, I was still just feeling a little bit off. So that sort of I had my first round and I went, Oh, I wonder if this is the treatment that's making me feel like this, or is it just life busy, whatever? So I've definitely realized this pattern now, or it's definitely a couple of days at least, where I just feel a little bit rubbish. And yeah, I think it's it's just gotten to the point where I used this figure of speech not long ago, and it's completely the wrong figure of speech because cancer was cancer is not a novelty, but it's like the novelties won off, and you're like, right, so we've kind of just got to get on with life now, yeah, but everything is still so not normal. But you just you're getting on with it, and I want to get on with things, but then every every now and again it'll just pull you back, pull you back, you know? Yeah, and that's that's what's hard to grapple with at the moment. I had this, I had this time, I think it was when I just started getting back into some work a couple of months ago, and I was sitting on a Zoom, took a little cheeky look at myself, like we all do when we're in a Zoom meeting. Yeah, and I was like chatting, chatting away about some client work, and I was like, just looked at myself and I was like, oh my god. Look at you sitting here, having a Zoom meeting, chatting away about your client work, like this is just what you do every single day. But the last time you did this, life looked completely different to what it does now. Yeah, and you were sound the same. Yeah, you sound the same, you look the same-ish, you know. People tell you you look great, which is so lovely, so lovely. Um, but you're just going, but I'm not I'm just not the same person. And I'm grateful that I'm able to get on with it and you know, do all the things, have energy again. I went to a 6am Pilates class a few weeks ago, which I felt like, you know, in the thick of chemo, I could only dream of doing that. I was like, I just I will never complain about getting up at 5 30 to go to the gym again, you know? Yeah. So being able to start, you know, doing those kind of things and and just find the joy in every day again when you're not in the trenches, kind of thing, but it's still I can't articulate it. I know that you guys know exactly how it feels, and it's just it's hard to articulate to anyone that's not really going through it. But the best way to describe it is you're trying to get back to normal life, but everything is just not normal, and this wildly life-altering thing has happened and you've gone through it, still going through it to a degree. But you just want to get on with life, but it's always, it's always just gonna be there. And I don't know what that's gonna look like. I've been trying really hard to remind myself to take things day by day again. I was really good at that early on, and I I let things, I think, I try to look too far ahead sometimes now, and I go, oh my god, I'm gonna be like this is me now till the end of the year. My last treatment will fall in mid-December. Oh wow. Really, yeah. Like I had so many other plans that I had for this year, which absolutely did not involve three weekly chemo, you know. And I think we touched on it a little bit before, too. I think like the mental side of things, and um another girl I followed, Jess Frost, she's on TikTok, she's amazing. I love Jess's stuff for Jenny as well.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

She's I and I think she's on the same treatment. Is that she is? Yeah, you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

All of her hair's been growing wild. I've been looking at all three of them. I know. I'm like, whoa, look at our little beautiful mullet man cuts.

SPEAKER_06 43:07

I love it. I know the mullet stuff in she's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

And she posted a video the other day, and she said something to the effect of, or her, I think oncologist even said to her, you can have this thing called like anticipatory nausea. And for me, I'd I've said to Luke the last few times I've walked into the chemo clinic, I'm like, the smell. Oh I said to him, every time I walk through the doors, the smell hits my nose, and I'm just like, oh like I can't, and I can't get past it. And when they do the slate, the saline flush through my port, the taste of it.

SPEAKER_05 43:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

And I think it's because I remember my last round of chemo, I sat there feeling really unwell the entire time. And I never really ever got nauseous in the chemo chair, but that very last treatment, I felt really nauseous the whole time. Straight away sitting there. So now, yeah. And she explained it really well in her video, and she said all the same things, and she's like, you know, you she's over it, basically. And that your body is just still going through this stuff. Your body remembers.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

Your body remembers. Like my dad, for instance, just to give you an idea as well on the exact same thing that Jess is talking about. My dad just had a hip reconstruction. Now, my dad had the same hip reconstruction nine years ago in the same ward of the hospital, and I was in the oncology ward next to him. So I was going down because I was just in hospital so often because I was so allergic. And I was bald as a badger, and I was just walking down the hall and seeing my dad who was recovering from his hip surgery. Now I've walked in nine years later, pushing my pram with my baby in it, going to see my dad in the same ward. And while it feels amazing that I'm, you know, nine years ago, I never would think that I was going to walk out of that elevator. But that smell of that floor, it didn't matter how grateful I was that I was right there pushing my baby. Yeah, it it honestly took me back and I was like, whoa. And I remember walking past like the same silver part of the elevator that you can catch your reflection in. I used to walk past that and think like, oh, you're an alien. Like you don't look anything like yourself. And I looked in that same mirror again, and it was just so weird because it's the duality of being so grateful to be alive and to be here in whatever capacity that that's whether you're having three-weekly treatment, whether you have to have scans every six months, whatever that looks like, your body has still gone through a massive traumatic event that affects us at a cellular level. So I think in that after process, whether it's you know a year down the track, nine years down the track, you still have to give yourself grace. And it's kind of it's almost in a way a really beautiful thing because you're like, oh, okay, like that happened, but here I am now. And I think when I was in that after space as well, I would always try to remind myself if I was having a shit of a day, and everyone's like, Oh, you look amazing, you're doing great. I would just think, okay, do one thing today that I that I there's no way I could do six months ago. Whether six months ago I might have not been able to get out of bed and brush my teeth and have a shower. So if I'm having such a low day, go do that and prove to yourself how far you've come. Or like what you said, like with your Pilates class. Pilates, like, yeah, we all sometimes we all hate going to the gym. I don't care if you've had cancer or not, with the fittest person or not. But when you're having that low moment, being like when you finish the class, being able to feel the sweat not come down your bald head, but catch in the strands of hair. Like it's just it's really, really simple things, and it's that whole mindfulness, but it's reminding, okay, back then I was in the trenches and I didn't think I'd be here. Right now I'm in the trenches, and I still didn't think I'm gonna be here, but I have can prove to myself that there's gonna be an after this. And it's just like cons and it fucking sucks at the time because you hate that you have to do it, but it's like giving yourself a little pep talk because no one knows what it feels like when you walk onto a hotel, a hotel. God, I wish it was a fucking hotel. A hospital ward. Can you tell that's where I want to be? Um god, you know, like you no one knows those little things that's all happening inside of you. So it's like these silent battles. So we've got to try and find little tangible ways to have that circuit breaker. Yeah, because otherwise it can fuck up your whole day, your whole week, and your partner, your kids, no one around you knows because it was a smell. Like yeah, so yeah, I just I'm so glad that you said that about the Pilates class.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Sorry to go on that tangent, but it's so important because it is it's simple, it's simple things, and it's exactly like you said as well. And I will do that in my low moments too. And it's like find three things, no matter how middle school they are, that you're grateful for right this second. And you always can.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Always, you know, it asks you the same thing, the three things.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Oh, I love that. It's like what are you? Yeah, the three helps. It's like find three things, and I've often said, like, not a not a believer that everything happens for a reason. Yeah absolutely not, but there's a lesson in everything that happens, you know. And it is, it's that lesson. It's like, all right, I can get through this, I can do hard things. And I had the most amazing conversation actually only a couple of weeks ago with a friend of a friend who's actually another good news story which we love. So she's eight years post-triple negative breast cancer treatment. Triple negative. Yep, she's um incredible, gorgeous lady. Like I said, friend of a friend. We were having a conversation, and my friend had kind of mentioned each of us to each other, and she just came over and she said to me, Claire, and she told me her name, and she's like, Can I give you a hug? And we had the biggest hug, and she was just amazing. And and she said to me, She's like, How are you? And we had a bit of a chat because obviously she's the same, she understood it all. And she said, I loved it. She said, You need to remember that you are rebooting right now. She's like, Take all the pressure off. She's like, our bodies have literally, it's like what you said, Bianca, been like at a cellular level, been, you know, essentially broken down literally to a cellular level. Um, and you're rebooting from, you know, from zero, essentially.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

And I think we need to change the bounce back culture. Like we've dropped that with postpartum. We give women the grace that, like, okay, you've grown a baby for nine months, so let's give you like nine months-ish plus more to even start feeling like yourself again. So we need to do the same as cancer patients and cancer survivors, cancer thrive, whatever you want to call it, because we try to throw ourselves. You and I spoke about that Dakota last week about like throwing yourself back into work because you're so eager to catch up on what you've missed. But you still need to give your body and your mind and like really your soul a second to catch up to. Yeah. And I think so many of us are so guilty of doing it. It's the world that we live in.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Yeah. Totally. It's it is, it's that like hustle culture. And look, it is it is rebreeding. I just love that. I was like, rebreeding is exactly what I'm doing. And like I said, when it comes back to lessons that come out of this stuff, you know, for me, the greatest lesson and the thing I'm most grateful for has been just balance, a bit more balance. I don't think anyone's ever gonna have the perfect balance, but for me, like now, very much, and I I have to say, like, I couldn't do this without like I'm so lucky to have the most phenomenal support from family and friends. You know, we have both sides of our families really close by who are basically there whenever we need them for help. And I'm in a really fortunate position personally where I've had a lot of support, which I'm just so bloody grateful for. Like I can't say it enough. So good. But it's meant that I could put my energy into my family, myself, you know, the kids, and get back into work as well. So it's it's just trying to find that bit of a balance and figure out where I'm putting my energies in this period of kind of rebooting, but still kind of going through treatment and trying to, you know, nail the mum life juggle as well, which you know, chance it it doesn't switch off for mum life and vice versa. Mum life doesn't switch off for going through like the mum, yeah. That's that's fair, like whether you feel like shit or not.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

And especially because like a chemo chemo hangover is literally 10 times worse than when you were 19 the day after being at the club. Like, I don't care what you say. And then like imagine being so hungover at 19 in your bed, you have no responsibilities, your room's dark, you've got your aircon on, you've got macas, and then you've just got a gremlin screaming mum at you. Like it's actually evil. And the thing is, like you said, it doesn't stop. It does not stop the mum like so. How have you how have you found that juggle? Like, have you had those conversations with your girls? Like, okay, mummy, really a couple days after, like, how have you guys navigated that you and look just as honestly as possible, basically.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

So we kind of like going back to the very beginning, the word cancer was never really spoken about, you know, early on, and then eventually it was just mummy's got a salt boob, and then it was kind of mummy has breast cancer. And we just the language that we used about everything just kind of evolved over time.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

And all age appropriate, like whatever suited the city.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Age appropriate, yeah. And just, you know, mummy's having her medicine today, so she's not gonna feel that well for a few days, you know. And it was my now seven-year-old gets it. Obviously, she's a bit older. My littlest is about to turn four, so she'd only well, she turned three like a week after I was done. You're such a barber. So little. And so there were days where you know, I would when I was having those really rough days, so at the end, laying in bed, putting it out of bed, and she was coming into my room, like pulling on the dream, being like, get up, nobody claiming. I was like, darling. I was just and I was so upsetting. I was like, Mom, you can't get up. And that that was so crushing, and that was another one of those times. Yeah, I was like, right, when I have the energy again, you bet I'm gonna push you on the swing as many times as you want, and we are gonna run the length of the beach together and do all the things. Like, not that I didn't do that before, but you know, sometimes it is just that. Oh, absolutely. So now, whenever I am feeling energetic and you know, I'm back there, it's like, right, what are we doing? Where are we going? Like, let's make the most of this day, let's go do something fun, you know. Oh, that's so good. So, yeah, but I'm I'm not doing it perfectly though, don't get me wrong. Because like I mentioned to DeGroda before, like mentally, I definitely have been struggling, probably the most that I have. I wouldn't say the whole way through, but I have been really struggling probably the last month or so, just with that. Oh God, this is this is all just still really happening. And I've you know had days where I have gotten quite emotional and down about it, and I can't hide that from them. And so I'm not proud of myself that you know I do get emotional and down like that in front of them. And I'm just you know, I say to them, look, mommy's just really sad today because you know, sometimes I wish I still wasn't having my name sent it. Yeah, like I do. I think the honesty is it is really good, and I think it opens them up to questioning as well. So, particularly again, my older daughter. Willow, you know, like she she's had questions, obviously, and she said to me not long ago, she's like, But mommy, why do people get cancer? Why did you get cancer? And I said, Well, I can't answer that question, darling. I don't know. It can just happen. It just happens. I had a few cells that were a bit naughty, they turned bad, and that was it. Yeah. And that's the only way. Does that mean that I'll get cancer? And I'm like, look, darling, no, it doesn't, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. And I'm I just always bring it back to I'm having my medicine, you know, and that's why I have my medicine. Yeah, it's just about money. To make me better and yeah, yeah, and that that's all it is. I try to keep it really light in that way. But I mean, when I had my surgery, that was not not tricky, but I chose not to tell the kids what I was having done before I went into hospital.

SPEAKER_04 55:33

Yeah, so because they know that you're going into hospital though?

SPEAKER_01 55:37

They knew I was going to hospital, yes. They knew I had to go to hospital, they knew I was having surgery, they knew I was probably gonna come home with a little bag that had some drains in it. Like I tried to kind of prepare them and that they wouldn't be able to visit me in hospital, so I didn't want them like coming up there or anything. Yeah. Um, so they knew I was having surgery and I'd be there for a few nights. And then I didn't really tell them anything when I first got home either. And then I was actually, so my littlest was still at daycare at this stage, and it was obviously school holidays because like I said, school finished around that time, and yeah, I was home with my eldest daughter, and we're actually out. It was really sweet. We were out in the garden picking flowers together, and um, I still had like my drain bag on and stuff, and I said to her, I was like, Oh, I was like, darling, have you noticed anything different about mummy since I got home from hospital? And she's like, No, and I said, I don't have my boobs anymore, Dallie. And she went, she went, but what if you want to have another baby? What does she mean? And she goes, How are you feeding? And that was immediately where her mind went. And I was like, Well, we don't have to worry about that because mummy's not having any more babies, and it's just really line, and she thinks fit, they're not there anymore. And I was like, No, they're not there anymore. And she was like, And it was and then she just gave me a big hug. And it was like, I would never forget that. Because I was like, I don't know, it just felt like the time to like tell her what had kind of gone on and everything in the moment of it. It was this little law, and then we just went back to picking flowers and it was all lovely, and she was just how they do that, and then they're like they're like, okay, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 57:15

And you're like, Oh yeah, we just had a really big moment.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Yeah, yeah, it was so cute. And like sometimes Lila, the littlest, will look at me, she'll go, think your boobs are growing back, mummy. And I'm like, Oh, really happy. Hope so. Maybe, yeah. And I'm like, they might be back one day. So we just kind of have you know these little conversations. Like Willow was before I went to treatment on Wednesday, she put my numbing cream on my port for me and put my little bandage on. You know, she's like, Can I do your cream today, Mum? They're like, Yeah, you put my cream on, like, and she bandaged them up. And you know, so it's just it's almost become this normal part of their lives now, which I think is also good because they know if I do get a bit sad about it. To a degree, they kind of know why. I don't think they don't really understand the possible outcomes of cancer and things like that. We definitely don't talk about that. Um, and you know, I'd obviously I don't know, that's something that I've also never let my mind wander to too much either, weirdly. Like I've never I think that's why I have a problem with the word survivorship, because I never felt like I'm surviving in something. I'm just no, I'm just doing what I gotta do. Yeah, to make me single away.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

That's like when people like, oh you're so strong. Well, what the fuck was I meant to do? Just what else was I meant to do? Like, yeah. And for you, you have two little girls to keep going for. And yeah, well, there's one day, like you're always gonna be there here, and I know you say that you don't feel like you do it perfectly, but from hearing it back, and as a mum to two little ones around the same ages, that's as perfect as you can do it because there's no rule book. Yeah, and there's no one like there's no rule book for your children. So I think that just yeah, like you just you only know their emotions, you know what they can handle, and one day, unfortunately, we can't stop our kids from going through hard things. And by the fact that you're showing them that, yeah, I'm going through something hard, and there's the ebbs and flows of it, it might not feel like it now, but those lessons will come out later. You know, when they're girls in their 14, 15, 16, or they're women navigating life in their later 20s, like it's you don't feel like it at the time, but like the things that you're planting now and the beautiful work you're doing, like it'll show. So please don't be hard on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's definitely that's yeah, that's one of the things. It's it's hard because you do you just want to be this person they can look up to, and when you feel like you're breaking down under all this stuff, it is really hard. And um, yeah, I lost my train of thought there for a second.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

No, that's okay, but I just want you to know that you are like seriously, yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Thank you. Yeah, thank you. They're incredible, and look, kids, kids are so resilient, and that's what I would say to anyone who's, you know, potentially going through treatment right now or or anything like that. Like, you you'll just you will get through the hard days. They're bloody hard, and it's like anything, and it it's all relative, and I'm not, you know, comparisons to thief of joy, so I'm I'm not doing that. But I I do look at myself and go, I'm not, it's not like I'm living every day with chronic pain, you know. I'm still able to function every single day. I can do normal things. I have, you know, this amazing kind of like work-life balance now, and I can be there to drop my kids off and pick them up and take them to all of their activities, and that's where I've really chosen to put more of my energy than into work, which before was definitely more work, yeah, and then all the other stuff, you know. So I've definitely, you know, skewed it a little bit more to, you know, the kids, and then work becomes that thing that I do for enjoyment.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Um, to use my brain and, you know, like kind of divide things up that way a little bit. So I'm so grateful for that. But it also doesn't mean that, like I said, this whole experience is just still not normal at all, you know. Like this week for me, I've got I'm going to the osteo tomorrow because I've got some pretty bad cording actually under my arm. Did you have cording to put it on? Every day. Yeah. Yeah, sorry, I forgot you had the yeah, so I've got that. Um, so I'm anyway, I'm going to see the osteo.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:29

That I've got that is a um get to do give you like a really beautiful massage if you find like something that you like the smell of. And then yeah, you can kind of because as well, like I know the partners, because I still get my partner to do mine, um, but he wasn't with me when I was going through treatment, but it kind of like I could show him the pressure, and it also like it allowed him to kind of be involved. It wasn't just like my pain that I was going through, if that makes sense. Like he was able to rub it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Nanny boob oil, the nice little one who used that as a rubber.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:02

And then it's also like a point of connection too, and like he could actually feel what it is that's there because you're only like I would find I was just saying it out loud, but then I could be like, Oh, if you actually feel this here compared to this side, it's really tight. And if you just like lightly rub that out, we can just work it out. And he was like, Oh, okay, cool. So it was like a nice thing in a weird way, like what's fucking nice about loving scar breast cancer scar tissue, but you know, like that's a really good idea, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

I actually love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:35

Yeah, and it's just like something nice and it makes you feel nice too.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

Yeah, true. So I've actually I've got the lymphedema clinic on Tuesday this week as well, actually. So that'll be that's another thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

So it's great that you're down in Tessie with the um the weather because you're not is it does it get humid down there? No, not really, yeah, because the the only thing with me is the humidity in summer on the Gold Coast. It's like I can feel it's like fire ants going up and down my arms, and I can feel it swelling, so I put on my compression, but it would be so good being in a cooler climate.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Yeah, yeah, it does really get humid here. So that's so good. It's um yeah, it is really good. So yeah, it's again, it's just I don't know, coming back to the whole the now thing and the kids and whatever, it's just finding that new normal, I suppose, of all the things with them, then you know, hospital, chemo, scans, appointments that all just appointments somehow. Yeah, appointments, appointments, appointments, it all just somehow fits in to everything you're doing. Yeah, you just make it work, don't you? Yeah, you just you just make it work and reminding myself just yeah, day day by day. Absolutely you are amazing. You are honestly. Oh look, we're all just we're all trying, aren't we? We're all winging it. That's what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:53

Yeah, we're all winging it.

unknown 1:03:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

No one knows what they're fucking doing. None of us. I'm so excited. Come on and like pick up where you left off because we you know, it's been so happy. That episode like was so popular for us, and you know, I think everyone loved it, and I think you know, that's like you coming back on and sharing things that you didn't realize that was the path that it was gonna go down, you know. So nice and had no idea. Maybe be in the same situation, it might help people to, you know, know that okay, it's still gonna be okay. Maybe it's just gonna be a little bit longer, or you know, whatever the situation is. But yeah, we really appreciate you sharing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

Oh, thank you. We do, you're just the best. But it's all gonna be okay. Yeah, oh, thanks so much, girls, for having me. I feel like I've probably missed so many things I tried to mentally think about. So we're minutes to talk about me. Yeah, part three. Loading. Oh no, that was the best thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

For a whole week. I'm like, I wish it was coming out tomorrow Monday, but it's next Monday.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

That sold sword. Oh, how exciting though. Bali!

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

I know. Oh my god, I'll be in Bali when this comes out, and I'll be laying on the beach listening to it, being like, whoa. I will be on a holiday in so long, guys. Like, oh my god, sorry. It'll be so beautiful. It'll be so nice going with your mum. It's just a breath of fresh air. Like he's just like, mate, go and live your life. And I'm like, Thank you so much. Where other people was like, Oh, you know, like you're gonna get sick. Like he's like, definitely be careful, but like, you know, go and live your life. And I'm like, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:23

Oh, that's awesome. Well, and that's the thing. We all just have to go and live our life, make the most of the really good news that applies to anyone.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Yeah, like we don't know what's anything could happen. You could cross the road and get hit by a bus. Like, exactly. It's you don't know whose number's gonna get called that day, so you better fucking just enjoy it. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Yeah, and you know what? Check in on your friends, whether they're going through something or they're not, you know. Like that, I think that's definitely one of the things when you come out the other side of this. And this is not about I, you know, you don't need attention or whatever from anyone else. It's it's All about you, but I think it's just that reminder that just because you're seemingly out the other side, your hair's growing and you look great, and all the things, there's still just so much going on. There's so much going on behind the scenes. Like it's oh yes, we're grateful to be here, and yes, when we're feeling good, we've probably got the most energy from anyone in the room because you're just so stoked to be there. But there's still days when it hits bloody hard. So I've actually got a girlfriend who she's just amazing, and she'll just send me like I just get messages from every now and again. Sometimes it's just a little flower, or sometimes it's a little coffee, or a little love part, and that's all it is. And I just think that's just the kindest thing, and it's just like those messages, you know, where it's like no need to reply, thinking of you. Yeah. Like I think we could all just, you know, spread those little glimmers of joy a little bit more. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Exactly. Yeah. Well, you never know when you're gonna need it. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

Well, should we finish our episode with um I'm gonna get you guys to think of it on the spot, but I'm gonna read out a quote, but I'm gonna get you guys to think of a quote off the back of your hand. Um, alright. This is a good one. By the way, guys, um if you're ever looking for a good gift, this book, um, or any of this lady's books, her name's Meredith Gaston, and you guys can't see, but anyway, it's really beautiful art. I've got like six of them. Oh, so I think I've got four. But um, people have bought them for me as gifts. But this one is just like all these beautiful like quotes. Anyway, this one says, I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail. That's no, I like that one. I just switched that one. Should we do one more?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:51

Um, yeah, one more. I literally don't have one. You I feel like you could hear my brain humming trying to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:58

Coda will pull one for you. She'll pull one that's applicable to your week. Yeah. Because your week's mantle. Please here we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

Yeah. Oh, okay, guys. You're gonna be listening to this on a Monday. So if you're listening to it and it's the start of your Monday, happy fucking Monday. If things are going untowardly one month, they are sure to mend the next. Hang on. Untowardly? Is that a word? I thought that's good. I thought that sounded good.

unknown 1:08:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

Yeah, yeah. It was good. All right. I thought that was good, yeah. Yeah, that is sure to mend the next.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:32

Yeah, I like that. I like that. My brother used to always say to me, a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor. Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:41

I think it's good one.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:44

Break that down to me. So a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor. So you have to go through some rough seas to be a good sailor. Yeah, okay. I like that. So if you're going through a rough time, just know that it's so you are skilled later. Wow. Yeah. So that's my big brother.

unknown 1:09:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Oh, you're beautiful brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:06

I don't have one. I literally don't have one. But I'm just gonna do that little reminder if you're having a shit day, three little tiny things to be grateful for immediately shifts your mood.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

Yeah, I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:17

And do you have the best Sunday ARVO ketchup? I know. I just need to pour a wine and just pretend I was drinking it the whole time. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

I feel like I needed a glass of bubbles in my hand now and be like, cheers, cheers to that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:29

Oh no, babe, that was absolutely awesome. Thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts. And you will obviously be a standing guest all the time now, a resident guest.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

I would love to be back for part three. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:42

Yeah, we love you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

Thanks, girls. Love you.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

Bye.