Major Aneisha Bell: Air Force JAG Recruiter

Major Aneisha Bell is the Chief of Recruiting for the U.S. Air Force JAG Corps.  She received her Bachelor’s and law degrees from the University of South Carolina.  Aneisha has completed active-duty assignments at Langley AFB in Virginia, Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, and the United Arab Emirates.  She is currently assigned to the Pentagon and may be reached at Af.jag.recruiting@us.af.mil or 1-800-JAG-USAF.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

From the civil and criminal defense team at Collins and Lacey Law Firm in South Carolina, this is the Military Veterans in Law Podcast with your host, Jared Fussnecker.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast. I'm Jared Fussnecker. Joining us today is Major Anisha Bell. Anisha is the chief of recruiting for the U.S. Air Force Jag Corps. She attended the University of South Carolina here in Columbia for undergrad and law school before starting her career with assignments throughout the United States and in the Middle East. Welcome to the show, Anisha.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Thank you for having me. Yeah, I was very excited to see that the Chief Jag Corps recruiter is a game cock, and not just a game cock, but both undergrad and law school here at USC, which everyone knows is University of South Carolina, not Southern California, right? There you go. So, and are you originally from South Carolina, Nisha?

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Yeah, so I am originally from Aiken, South Carolina. Um, but I was raised most of my life or all of my life in Greenwood, South Carolina. Um, and that's where I settled before I ended up going to college.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

A beautiful area of the state. Aiken's got all the horse country. And isn't there Lake Greenwood? Is that right? Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

So we have Lake Greenwood and Greenwood, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Like I prosecuted at the South Carolina Attorney General's office for six years, and it was a great opportunity to like get out and really see the state. Um, and of course, they're Aiken, not too far away from Fort Gordon uh in Augusta, Georgia, there on the border. So, like, what led you to to go to University of South Carolina?

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Yeah, so I had friends in high school that were going to that same school, and then I have an older sister, um, two years older than me. She also went to USC. So it was kind of like a win-win, right? I I had friends that were going there, and then I had the security of having my big sister there, so why not, right? And I didn't want to go to Clemson.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Yeah, I hear you there. Like uh in case my wife is listening, you know, it's like I fully support that answer. Sorry to the Clemson fans out there, right? Like, and so like what growing up, like what types of activities were you interested in? And like what did you see yourself doing like when you left for USC?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yeah, so growing up, I was a sports person. So I loved playing basketball. I played basketball um all the way up through high school. Um, I did the AAU tournaments and were on some of those teams. Um, but I I just for career-wise, I kind of always knew that I wanted to be an attorney. I have no reason when people ask, I'm like, I just feel like I always knew I wanted to be an attorney. If you ask my parents, they will say she knew when she was five years old and her answer never changed, right? So um I just kind of like helping people. I like the law, I like kind of like figuring things out. So I think that's kind of what stayed with me up until I went to um USC for undergrad. And then while I was in undergrad, I started off as a um poli sci major. And then I hated it so much, but I thought that that's what I had to do. But I I switched over to criminal justice and from there it kind of kicked off. And I was like, okay, I'm definitely going to law school.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, criminal justice building is right there on the old historic horseshoe, too, like a very pretty place to attend classes, the oldest part of campus from I think like 1802, right there.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Like so your criminal justice major. So at that point in time, was the military on your radar yet?

SPEAKER_03 3:31

No, not at all. So I didn't think that I would ever join the military, right? I had this vision of what an attorney was. I wanted to be in like the cute suits with the high heels, right? I was like a uniform every day. The same thing is not something that I want to do, right? Um, but it wasn't until I got into law school that I met someone that was in one of the programs, and she told me about all the opportunities the JAT Corps had. Um, and then I kind of was like, I'll look into it a little bit. And then after doing some research, I was like, I think I'm sold. I can do that for four years.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

So was that a fellow student or was that an Air Force recruiter, or what did that look like?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Yeah, so it was a fellow student. She ended up being in my 1L section. She was in the funded legal education program, which I'll talk about a little bit later. Um, but the Air Force paid for her to go back to law school. And then we just became really good friends. And then I was just like, what's this Jaguar thing that you're talking about? Um, and then that's kind of how it started.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

And look at that. She was not only doing the flep program, but she was recruiting while she was there. So yeah, like it really paid off. So um, so while you're in law school, what's your first exposure to the military?

SPEAKER_03 4:35

So her, I think. I don't know that I have any like immediate family that was in the um military. Um, there were a couple of law students that were like reserve and national guard. So after like meeting her and kind of understanding, hey, what's this military thing? I did kind of speak to some of those people that were in different career fields, um, but they weren't necessarily JAGs. Um, so then after talking to her and then kind of, you know, continuing to chat with the other folks, I kind of realized, okay, this is what the JAG Corps is because those same um students were also trying to join the JAG Corps just in the reserve uh capacity.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

And so did you do an internship with the Air Force during law school, or what did your application process look like?

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Yeah, so no, like so that one L year when she kind of told me about it, I was a little stubborn. I'm like, hey, I want to be a solicitor. So I interned at the solicitor's office. Um, I interned with the um district attorney's office for or the district attorney's office for a little bit. And then I also did um an internship with the public defender's office. So I remember thinking, I hear you're on the military, I'm not gonna do it. Um, and then in the 2-0 year, she's like, hey, I think you really should like look into this. And I graduated law school a semester early. So once I got into that 3-0 year old achiever, watch that. Once I got into that last semester of my 3-0 year, I was like, okay, it's time to buckle down, get serious, and start um putting in some applications. So the um district attorney's office that I was interning with, they gave me an offer, but then I had also applied for the JAG Corps and I was like, okay, now I need to make a decision. What sold me on the JAG Corps was the fact that they paid back my student loans. I got to travel the world, and then I got to practice different areas of law. Because I always said, hey, I know I want to um prosecute, but do I really know that, right? Like I don't want to just kind of be stuck doing the prosecution thing when I really kind of like um employment law, like I like other areas of law. So let me just kind of do the Jag Corps thing. It's only four years and I'll get out. And that didn't happen. So here I am today.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Well, that's one thing I appreciate about the Jag Corps across the services, is it's seen as a good thing to be both a prosecutor and a defense attorney along the way. Whereas in uh my experience in state court practice, there were some people that uh they were suspect if you'd ever worked on the other side before, right? It's so I think that it's good to have somebody that's that's well-rounded like that. Um so you come into the Air Force officer basic course fresh, uh, never been in the military before. What was that initial uh training experience like for you?

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Um, it was not bad for me. I have always been like a disciplined person. So going into officer training school was, I think the only thing that kind of was like an adjustment for me was waking up super early. Um, so we woke up super early, maybe like 4 a.m. to do PT. Um, but it wasn't bad, right? It's like they're teaching you how to march, teaching you how to salute. You're doing a lot of tests. Um and the OTS class that I went to was only five weeks, which is now um eight and a half weeks. So that's a little bit different, but it wasn't bad at all. I remember thinking, oh, this is what military training is like. Like this isn't bad at all. It's not what I saw on TV where you see people like on the ground and they're crawling on the barbed wire and none of that, right? It was it was it wasn't bad at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So that was Air Force training. Uh army training is that way. Maybe they taught you how to drink coffee like an officer in the Air Force or something. I'm not sure how y'all do it. Wait, was that at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, where the the Air Force Shag school is, or where was your officer training school?

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Yeah, that's right. So our the officer training school um for everyone is gonna be at Maxwell Air Force Base. And then we also have a Judge Advocate staff officer course. It's also at Maxwell, and that course is nine weeks. So um the way I kind of did it was I stayed at Maxwell after officer training school. I went straight to JSOC um and then went to my base after that. Sometimes it doesn't align that way. You might go to your base, you know, get settled in, find a place to stay, and then you'll go off to um judge advocate staff officer course or JSOC um to do your training.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Oh, interesting. You so you the the five and a half week officer training school, that is just this is how to wear your uniform, how to march, customs and courtesies, physical fitness tests, and so forth, it sounds like. And then the uh joint staff officer course, I assume that's where you're learning substantive military law at that point, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Bingo, yep. So um that's exactly right. So you'll do all the military training as far as like the saluting, all that stuff at um officer training school, and then judge advocate staff officer course is where you learn the you know, the UCMJ, military justice, civil law, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Got it. And so was your first assignment um at Hampton, Virginia, is that correct? Yep, at Joint Base Langley Eustace. Okay. And it looks like you had a variety of uh jobs that you did there. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Yeah. Um, I started off as the chief of legal assistant. So in that position, I pretty much manage our legal assistants um portfolio um where we essentially advise airmen, retirees, dependents on all sorts of civil law um issues, whether it be landlord tenant or whether they had, you know, um separation agreements that they wanted us to review, that type of thing. Um, and then from transitioning from legal assistance, I then became the chief of civil law for a short stand of time, um, where I kind of manage the whole portfolio, which uh assists of like chief of claims and um the other, you know, chiefs that are in that portfolio. Um and essentially we we do legal reviews, right? We we submit claims and route claims for, for instance, if someone is on the base and they go through a car wash and their car scratch, right? And they want to um get reimbursed for for those damages, then we investigate that and route that stuff up too. So that was kind of our civil law portion. And then after maybe like a year and a couple of months, I got uh deployed. So I went to Al Dafra um in the UAE. So I was there for uh six months, is how long our deployments typically are, but COVID happened while I was there, so I got extended for an additional two months.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Lucky you.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

It was an amazing experience. I mean, I would have stayed for a year if they would have asked me to. Oh wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Now, is that near Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates or where is that located?

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yep, sorry, yep, it's in Abu Dhabi.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Okay, so you kind of had access to a big city while you were there.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

I did. So I was able to travel to Dubai, so I did that frequently. I mean, it was only like an hour and a half away, so I was able to travel there and do some fun stuff out there with um some of the people that I met.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

How freely could you go on and off base at that point in time?

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Um, pretty freely. So if there was something going on and we had transportation to get us there, it was kind of like there was a process, right? You had to route it through your leadership. Um, but it was pretty easy to do it. Um yeah, no issues.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah. And I I I saw that recently uh UAE, I believe, received some missile fire. Um, so obviously, not only our thoughts and prayers are with the folks that are in USA, UAE as well as throughout the Middle East, you know, with the the ongoing operations um that are going there. Um so what all were you responsible for while you were in the UAE?

SPEAKER_03 12:09

So we did pretty much the same thing that I did while I was at the base legal office. So I reviewed contracts, I did legal reviews, I advised uh all military members, whether it was Air Force or Army, um, because we had all services out there, I think Air Force, Navy, um, Army. So I was pretty much the legal office on the base. So if they had any issues, they could come see me. I also did military justice. So I routed and processed administrative actions that we did for airmen. Um, so it was literally the same exact thing that I would do at the base legal office.

unknown 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Well, you know, you're saying you're able to get off base and, you know, enjoy yourself while you were there. Um, we actually have an attorney here uh who's a military spouse. And uh her and her husband were assigned at the embassy there a while back, and she said that Abu Dhabi has a famous mall that it's known for, that I guess is one of the largest and nicest in the world. Did you have the opportunity to go there?

SPEAKER_03 13:03

I did. They have um, there's a bakery in there, um, and they're called um, I forget the name of them, but I would go so frequently, and I also used to visit the embassy because I would do legal assistance there. Like if there were any anybody at the embassy that uh qualified for our services, then me and my paralegal would go up there and and chat with them. So we were able to go to the mall for lunch on our way, going and coming back. But that mall was like, it was amazing. Also, the mall in Dubai is just as amazing too, though.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Well, I hope uh they can keep everything intact, like uh, you know, the it's with what's going on. Um because I mean, I imagine when you were there, uh, you know, you were able to go to the mall. It was quite uh it was a relatively peaceful time uh while while you were there.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah. So on the back side of your UAC uh UA assignment, um you went back to uh Langley for a bit, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yep. I went back to Langley um and finished out the rest of my assignment there, which was roughly about eight months. Um, and then I pretty much was the chief of administrative actions where I did, again, the same thing that I was doing while I was deployed. So processing um administrative actions for airmen. Um and then shortly after you know those eight months, I got um orders to go to Tinker Air Force Base to be a victims counsel.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Okay, and is Tinker outside of Oklahoma City? It is, yep. Yeah, that seems like it'd be uh a fun place to be. Oklahoma City is like really seems like a city that's on the rise. I mean, with the Thunder won the championship last year, and um it it it's a growing city.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

For sure. So I um I was not excited to be going to Oklahoma. It's like this is not not a place that I want to go. I didn't know much about Oklahoma. I just envisioned like I I had no idea what it was gonna be like. Um, but once I got there, I loved it so much that I asked to stay a third.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Yeah, so it is very much an up-and-coming city. Um, they they give, I mean, this is for any base, right? So you sometimes they have free tickets to games or concerts and stuff going on in the area. So I was at a ton of the Thunder um games. They were not that good then.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Um they didn't have SGA yet?

SPEAKER_03 15:19

No, they did have him.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

He was there, but I think the team was still like kind of figuring out, you know, how to jail together. But they they they did all right, but this year they're they're killing it.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yes, yes. I mean, they're I wouldn't be surprised if they repeat, you know. But the the it's kind of interesting though, they got the Spurs there, this uh a good conference rival for them. Uh you know, they've got OKC's got their center Chet Holmgren, and then of course San Antonio's got Women Yama, who's also over seven foot, and that's a fun matchup to watch. So um the three years that you were there, were you a victim counsel the whole time, or did you do anything else?

SPEAKER_03 15:58

No, I was a victim's counsel the whole time. So typically our assignments work is after you leave the base legal office, um, it just kind of depends on where you're going next. Most people decide to be like a defense counsel or a victim's counsel stand in the courtroom, um, and you'll do that assignment the entire assignment time. So um it's not like the base legal office where you kind of rotate out to the different sections. You're you're doing that job for the entire time of the of the assignment.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, and you know, so for instance, a lot of folks aren't familiar with victim counsel if they haven't been involved in the military justice system before. You know, like uh when I was a state court prosecutor, you know, I had a victim advocate who was assigned to work cases who was an employee of the state and a non-attorney. Could you explain to folks the role of uh victim counsel in the military?

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah, so as a victims counsel, we represented sexual assault, domestic violence victim victims. So, excuse me, whether that was an airman, guardian, um I even had some soldiers that were some of my clients from the army. Um, but yeah, so we represent those um victims and try to get, you know, justice or whatever that looks like for them. Um in the military justice process. So we can't represent anyone in like civilian court or anything like that, but they do have, they've been um our clients can also have victim advocates, right? So kind of how you mentioned um they work for the state and they're kind of appointed, but we also have victim advocates within the Air Force that aren't attorneys as well. So um a client can choose to have a victim's advocate and a victim's counsel. Um, and what the council does is um represent them throughout the court-martial process, whether it be filing motions, advocating to commanders for um whatever kind of, you know, outcome that my client is looking for. Um, and then we also do like resources. So I would advocate for resources for my client, whether that be with organizations or agencies on the base or off the base. Um, just kind of helping them through that whole process um as they're going through the justice process.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Great. Um thank you for that explanation. And so you were basically in the courtroom for three years, and then from there, uh, you got assigned to the Air Force Jag recruiting office where you are now, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

And so, and you're currently assigned to the Pentagon, is that right? I am, yep. Okay, so tell us about your work uh recruiting for the Air Force Jag Corps.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yeah, so as the chief of recruiting for the JAG Corps or Air Force Jag Corps, um, I manage the internship, externship program. I also manage and oversee like the base um JAG recruiters. So at each base legal office across the world, we have JAG recruiters that go off to law schools and detachments um to talk to law students and talk to cadets that are eligible to um apply for the JAG Corps. Um, I also run our career officer or career service officer course. So that is for any CSO or career service officer that is at a law school and they want to kind of get an idea of what we do as JAG so they can take it back to their students. Um, I also coordinate regional and national conferences. So, like if we have um like any MOOC court competitions, um, I'll organize that and we'll send out volunteers, JAG volunteers who are interested in judging or um tabling and kind of talking to students that are at the conferences or anybody, not necessarily just students, but attorneys as well, if they're interested in coming into the JAG Corps. So kind of a little bit of like a management role, not necessarily like um doing attorney type of work, if that makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah. So for folks that are interested in becoming an Air Force JAG or know somebody who would be, what are the different routes to the Air Force JAG Corps?

SPEAKER_03 19:46

So we have a couple different routes depending on like your status. So if someone is a civilian, then we have our direct appointment program. So that program is for 3-0 students who are um have completed at least two-thirds credit hours towards their JD. And then it's also for any licensed attorney. So you have to be able to commission before the age of 42. You have to graduate from an ABA accredited law school, be sworn into the highest court of any U.S. state, be a U.S. citizen, be able to be medically qualified, and then also be able to pass our um physical fitness test. So the medical qualification is a second step, right? So you can be selected to join the JAG Corps, but then you also have to be able to pass the medical qualification piece. So um, and then with that program, you don't have to have any military, you know, background. That's kind of how most of our JADs come in. That's how I came in. Um, but once you apply, you know, if you're picked up, you'll start your military career that way.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So now let's let's talk through the that one a little bit, the civilian uh direct appointment. So through that, what do they offer by way of like paying off student loans?

SPEAKER_03 20:55

So we don't have any program to pay student loans for civilians. So we do pay back$65,000 of student loans. Um so that's a financial incentive that we have, and that is um members will become eligible after their first year of their four-year contract. So the service commitment is four years, and then after that first year, you can apply for the$65,000 loan forgiveness um program, and then it'll be paid out over your last three years.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Okay, so if you know, as a civilian, you can say, hey, I'm willing to do four years, and you first year it sounds like it's almost kind of probationary, and then you years two, three, and four, they prorate the sixty-five thousand dollars to pay off your student loans.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

And then and I assume that, like the the Army, that any type of commission requires an eight-year obligation, where in in this instance, four years would be on active duty, and then four years the balance would be either on as an active reservist or an inactive reservist. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yep, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, and so for folks that out there that you know may not be familiar with that, like an active reservist, it's the what people typically think of as the one week in a month, two weeks a year, usually ends up being a bit more. Um, and then the inactive reservist, um, they're the folks that aren't actively drilling. Um, they could just be called to active duty uh if if necessary. Um and so the physical fitness test, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

So it is it's recently changed to where we have to do two PT tests a year, but it is going to be your mile and a half, your sit-ups, and your push-ups. We do have modified versions, but at least for the people that are going through officer training school, they have to do the mile run or the mile and a half run, sit-ups and the push-ups.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

All right. So all you attorneys out there, 42 and younger, that are looking to join the Air Force, get ready for your mile and a half run, your push-ups, and your sit-ups uh for your for your application. Okay, so that's one way into the JAG Corps. What's what's the next?

SPEAKER_03 23:04

So we also have some ROTC programs for um law students. So the first one in your 1L year, um, students can apply for the graduate law program. And essentially, they will complete ROTC, a four-year ROTC program in their second and third year of law school on top of their um law school courses.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Okay, so if you're a first-year law student right now, you can apply basically for ROTC. You're going to complete the ROTC program as you're uh completing your second and third years of law school. And what does the ROTC requirements look like?

SPEAKER_03 23:40

So that is based on the detachment. So detachments kind of run a little bit differently, but they their schedule just depends on however um they've aligned it for those semesters. So let's say there's a course for one detachment um that's only on Tuesdays and Thursdays, right? It could be Wednesdays and Fridays for another detachment. So it's just um additional courses is the best way I can explain it. So just additional classes that you have to take, but then anything extra that the detachment is going to be doing. So if they do PT in the morning, you're gonna be at PT, right? You're a part of that detachment.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

So um And I assume they got to take the same physical fitness test uh that we just just uh uh described.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Yep. And the detachment will coordinate all of that. Um, and and then once ROTC is completed. Well, let me back up a little bit. If you're in the graduate law program, once you finish your 2L year, so the summer of your 2L year, they'll go to field training. And field training is six weeks and it's also at Maxwell Air Force Base. So that is where they'll get their um their field training there because they don't commission. So they won't have to go to officer training school, like someone coming in through the direct appointment program. They will commission through the ROTC detachment.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Okay, so they go ahead and knock out the officer training school, the five and a half week program we talked about up front between the summer of 2-0 year and 3-0 year.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Yeah. So the so yes, but theirs is going to be six weeks. And then the officer training school now for people coming in through um really any program that they're commissioning, that is eight and a half weeks now.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Gotcha. Okay, and so um for the folks that do this, what type of um student loan or or benefits do they receive?

SPEAKER_03 25:21

So the exact same as someone coming in through the direct appointment. The really the only um, or not the only, but one of the incentives for this program as well as the one-year college program is that you have a contingent offer, right? So, like in your first year, you know, hey, if I complete all my RTC requirements, graduate law school, and pass the bar, I'm onboarding as a JAG without having to like reapply um in my 3-0 year.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And so there's so do they continue to take out student loans while they're in law school? And then their$65,000 will be paid back once they're on active duty and have finished their first year. Yep. The same as the civilian direct appointment?

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Yep, same thing. And the$65,000 goes off of calculation. So in the reg, it just depends on how much loans you have and so forth. But there's a calculation that we um use, and then that's how it's determined how much is awarded to you.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Okay, so and then I I heard you mention the one-year college program. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 26:14

So the one-year college program is for our two L's, exact exact same thing. You apply in your two L year, and then you'll complete all of your ROTC requirements in your 3L year. So that one's super advanced, super um um competitive, um, but it's the exact same thing. You'll complete everything, graduate law school, pass the bar, um, and then on board as a JAG.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Okay. And then how about folks that completed ROTC and undergrad? Is there uh some type of deferred education program that they can do to go to law school and apply to the JAG Corps?

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Yeah, so we have the educational delay program. So any cadet that, well, I'll say this, they can't have graduated already. So if you're in an undergrad and you're in an ROTC program, your senior year, um, the application opens one November through 10 January every year. Um, and when once you're in your senior year, you apply for that program. And if you're picked up, then you will essentially delay your active duty start time to go to law school. So you won't you'll still commission inactive, but then you'll just go to law school. And then once you graduate law school, you're on board as a JAG versus going into a different uh career field.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And if they are accepted for education delay, are they guaranteed a position in the JAG Corps upon graduation?

SPEAKER_03 27:32

So kinda. So the first step is the educational delay in. So that's the application. And if you're picked up for that, you go to law school. In your 3L year of law school, you apply same time frame one November through 10 JN for the educational delay out program. And essentially you're saying, hey, JAG Corps, I finished, I graduated, um, I don't have any misconduct or anything. Pick me up as a um as a JAG.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

And do they have any military obligations while they're going to law school?

SPEAKER_03 28:00

No. So they don't have, they've already pretty much completed it by doing ROTC while they're in undergrad.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Okay. And then any uh law school educational benefits to that?

SPEAKER_03 28:09

So they'll also receive the$65,000 if they oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah, that's great. Okay, and we we haven't covered FLEP yet. So uh would you mind uh talking about the funded legal education program?

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Yeah, so the funded legal education program is where we pay for um active duty airmen and guardians to go back to law school. So you have to same um or similar requirements, right? You have to already be in the Air Force or uh Space Force, you have to have at least served two years on active duty, but you can't have served more than six years. And that requirement is not waivable. Um, and then with that program, essentially the Air Force will pay for you to go to law school all three years and then you'll onboard as a JAG. One of the things with that uh program that most members sometimes aren't tracking initially is the conditional release memo that we need from the career field. So before members can apply, they have to get a release from their career field to say, hey, if you're selected for this program, we will release you from the career field, right? Because most people who are applying have active dirty, active duty service commitment with another career field. So um that piece I tell people to try to work as soon as you know that you're interested. So that way it gives your leadership a little bit of time to like consider it and kind of, you know, think through the plans um before they release you.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, I I was fortunate to do the FLEP program through the Army, and it's an amazing opportunity. Um, I went back home to University of Cincinnati for law school uh close to Ripley, Ohio, where I where I grew up, and you know, you I was receiving active duty captain's pay the whole time I was there, and you don't have the stresses that a lot of typical law students have. I knew that what job I was going to after I graduated, I knew uh where I'd be working during the summer, I'd be working uh for the Army, so I wasn't concerned about what internships uh that I was gonna get. You know, the Army already had that lined up, and then on the back end, I had a six-year obligation for them putting me through law school. Um, and so it sounds like the Air Force's program is very similar.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yep. So you do have a six-year um obligation. And like you mentioned, yes, you're getting paid your full um paycheck or your full um military pay and housing allowance while you're in law school.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So and have we have we uh covered all the different routes to becoming JAG or is there any other or becoming an Air Force Jag officer, or are there any that we haven't hit?

SPEAKER_03 30:35

So we do have the um excess leave program. So it's similar to FLEP. Um it's just that we don't pay for it. So students have to pay for it themselves. Same requirements, um, have to have served at least two years. Um, but officers can the cap is 10 years versus the six for FLEP. So the ELP program, excess leave program, is only available to officers versus the FLEP is open to officers and enlisted members.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Interesting. Yeah, the the Army opened its program up a few years back too to enlisted people. And I think, especially with paralegals that have had prior military service, I think it's just a great opportunity for them and for them to bring their experience into the JAG Corps. And so for the I I've heard that referred to as like the unfunded legal education program. Does during those three years is are they on an active duty status, a reserve status? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Yeah, so they're they're reserved, they're not getting their full pay. So it's it's essentially like they're on leave. Like they took in the leave um from active duty and will just go to law school um for those three years before coming back on.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

And do you know, is that inactive reserve or is it active reserve? Are they actually drilling during that time period?

SPEAKER_03 31:49

No, so they're not well, they are drilling, they're not drilling through that time period, so they're completely just a student.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Um So they're placed in the IRR then, it sounds like during during that time. Interesting. Okay. And so, you know, it's funny, every now and then I'll have somebody call me and be like, hey, I've got a high school kid or I've got a college kid, you know, like what do they need to do to go to the to become a JAG and what, you know, how do they best place themselves financially? Um, but it sounds like, you know, if they're not already in the Air Force and that they can't qualify for the FLEP or the unfunded legal education program, that really um it's like you need to get yourself in law school. And then once you're in law school, there's a couple different routes there, either through the ROTC route or the civilian direct appointment, and both of those get uh the person the$65,000 in uh student loan repayment.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Yes. And I mean they also, if they're in high school, they also can just join ROTC and try to do the educational delay too. So that's the first opportunity. But if they don't want to do ROTC through college, then yeah, once you graduate, you're gonna have to go to law school.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah, that's so yeah, the somebody that's motivated like yourself and already knows that they're gonna be an attorney in high school, they can figure that right out. You know, I've I've got twin six-year-old boys, Frank and Mike. I need to go ahead and get them signed up for an educational delay with you. Like, um, you know, I'm willing to, I don't know. They don't sign their names real legibly, but uh, you know, I'm willing to have to have them scrawl something on a piece of paper for you. So as we uh start to wrap up here, um, you know, Major Nisha Bell, thank you so much for coming on the show. Um, you know, unfortunately, the Lady Game Cox took an L on Sunday to Texas in the SEC championship game. But I'm hopeful that this is gonna motivate the Lady Game Cox and Don Staley's gonna take him to another championship. Have you had the opportunity to follow them?

SPEAKER_03 33:49

I have, and I'm sure they definitely will come back strong. I mean, I I watched that game and I was just as uh heartbroken as the rest of my GameCop fans, but um, I know I know our team is great and we will continue to be great. So I will see us next year um winning the championship.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

So well, and I understand that your next assignment is going to be at the Air Force Command and General Staff College back at Maxwell Air Force Base. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah, so I'm going to um Air Command and Staff College ACSC. Um I'll be there for 12 months. Um, and then from there, who knows? I'm hopeful to try to go overseas, but I will be excited for whatever assignment they give me.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

So hey, that's great. It sounds like the future is very bright for you, and uh we look forward to getting you back here to South Carolina one day after your your service is over. So thank you for everything that you're doing. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And oh, and if folks want to reach out to you with questions, what's the best way to contact you?

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Yeah, so they can uh reach us at AF Alpha Foxtrot Juliet Alpha Golf dot Romeo Echo Charlie Romeo Uniform Indigo Tango Indigo November Golf at US.af.meil. And I'm sure you'll tag it in the in the uh that's right.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

When I when I post the show, I'll make sure I put that out there so they can reach out to you.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

But they they also can give us a call at 703-614-2385.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Okay, great. So thanks a ton, Major Bell. Really, really appreciate it. For those of you out there listening, if you could please give the show a five-star review and invite folks to join our LinkedIn group to make it easier for others to find us. We'd appreciate it. We're trying to help as many people as we can. Thank you for listening to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast, where we continue to serve together.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

You've been listening to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast from the Civil and Criminal Defense Team at Collins and Lacey Law Firm in South Carolina. With your host, Jared Fusnecker. For more information, visit Collinsandlacey.com. Not associated with the United States government or any of the military branches. All statements on the podcast are made in a personal capacity.