David Corry: Squadron Commander and Insurance Executive

David Corry retired as a Lieutenant Colonel after serving 29 years in the Ohio Air National Guard while also rising through the ranks of the insurance industry.  Today, David is the Head of Casualty at Argo Group in Chicago, where he supervises 135 professionals providing multiple lines of casualty insurance in markets across the United States.  Listen in to hear how David has excelled in his dual careers, the impacts of litigation on insurance underwriting, and how veterans can leverage their experience in the insurance industry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

From the Civil and Criminal Defense Team of Collins and Lacy Law Firm in South Carolina, this is the Military Veterans and Law Podcast with your host, Jared Fussnecker.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome to the Military Veterans and Law Podcast. I'm your host, Jared Fusnecker. Joining us today is Lieutenant Colonel Retired David Corey. David is the head of casualty at Argo Group, an insurance company that specializes in underwriting specialty insurance in the property and casualty markets. David served in the Ohio Air National Guard from 1982 until his retirement in 2010. Welcome to the show, David. Thank you. Thank you, Rock, for taking the opportunity to speak with me today. Yeah, it's great to have you here. Like myself, you attended the University of Cincinnati, so it's good to have a fellow Bearcat on the program. It certainly is. I appreciate that. Now, uh are you in Chicago now, David? I am. I'm based in Chicago, Illinois, downtown. Uh do you do you follow Cincinnati sports or uh Oh sure.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yeah, absolutely. I do. I used to uh uh I've been in Chicago for about 15 years now. Uh moved around a little bit for the companies I work for, but uh when I was in Cincinnati, uh I had season tickets to the football and basketball teams.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Oh wow, that's great. Like we know So I you know, I grew up in Ripley, 50 miles east of Cincinnati in the 80s. So like my formative years were following the Reds. You know, I remember vividly when Pete Rose hit number 4,192 off Eric Shaw to break Ty Cobb's record. And we just had so many real characters in Cincinnati sports, you know, in in the 80s and 90s. It was a it was a you know, we went through some rough spots in Cincinnati sports since then, but that was kind of a I in my mind a golden era of you know the Bearcats, the Bengals, the Reds, what they were doing at that time.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Oh, absolutely. And yeah, even the Bengals had some uh strong personalities at that time too.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Oh, Sam Weich was a lot of fun, boomer as I said. Like I got to go to a Bengals training camp at Wilmington College um as a kid, and that was one of the highlights of my life, I think. You know, as just as a little kid meeting like you know, the your your football idols, it's like it doesn't get better than that. No, it doesn't. See, and I guess you would have been you would have had season tickets during the Carson Palmer era then in the early 2000s, is is that right? Oh, I've yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

I did.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

So did you grow up in Cincinnati, David?

SPEAKER_02 2:25

I did. I grew I was born and raised in in the greater Cincinnati area. Okay. And what attracted you to UC? Well, I uh when I graduated high school, um I uh went over to at that time it's um it was called Cincinnati Technical College, uh which is now Cincinnati State, affiliated with the Poole University. And uh I did first two my first two college years there um and then decided to finish up and get a bachelor's degree. I had five brothers and sisters, and and my parents couldn't afford college. So um uh I I you know I was uh had the opportunity to uh explore the at that time the Ohio National Guard. And so um my dad was active duty Air Force, and I we you know, I used to used to hang around Air Force bases. We'd go back and visit Florida a lot. So um long answer to your question is I I wanted to go to the University of Cincinnati. I couldn't pay for it, so I enlisted uh uh in the Ohio National Guard, Air National Guard side, and if you listed for six years, um the benefit was they paid your uh undergrad degree at any state school. Um so um, where do I, you know, where do I sign up and I test it and physical it and and uh went went that's how I went to the University of Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

And what was your occupational specialty starting out?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

So when I enlisted, I um it was it was a combat radar unit that was based in Cincinnati. It's a tactical radar unit that goes out in the field and deploys and sets up. And so I was uh in a radar operations uh specialty.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

And I assume you were drilling them the whole time you were attending UC. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yeah, lots. And if the fact that we were a tactical radar unit, you know, uh radar operations, we could radar van, right? So it's the it's deployable, so you have all the ability to go and be self-sustained out in the field, go anywhere, deploy the radar, you have your own power generators, um uh communications devices, the radar that you set up, the operational vans. Um and once you get all that set up, you have the ability to basically uh scan about 250 miles out uh to control uh airplanes and uh monitor airspace.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

So this type of radar, I assume, then you know, is to detect enemy uh plane movement?

SPEAKER_02 4:49

We did we did a lot of that. So um uh ultimately went uh three years or four years later, I got my undergrad degree, I I decided to stay in. I thought the six years was went by pretty quick. I was four years into it, and uh so I expressed an interest to become an officer, and some vacancies came up, and I uh I uh uh met a board and tested and physically and was selected from the board to go to officer school. Uh and at that time, then but then I became an actual controller. So what we we were special, I was at an air battle manager at that time I entitled switched over. I was gone for about a year between uh officer school and specialty school for the Air Force to learn how to become a controller. Um but we could do we do air-to-air missions, so air control missions. So your classic, like you see in the movies where you know two fighter jets chase a fighter and and intercept, uh, and then uh a lot of air refueling missions and then air-to-ground missions. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

And was your officer training school at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama, or where did you go from the US?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Actually, it was Air National Guard. They have their own Air Force school. Uh it's down in Tennessee in Knoxville, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Okay, gotcha. And so while you were at USC, I see that you were a finance and insurance double major. So, you know, a lot of folks that I talked to in the insurance industry, they didn't necessarily start out there. They found their way to insurance. But it seems like you developed an interest pretty early on in your career. How did that come about?

SPEAKER_02 6:15

So I was majoring in finance, and I didn't see at that time envision myself going to work in banking. Um, not that it didn't attract me, but I felt like in the early mid 80s, I thought it was, and I guess it's even more so true today, but I thought specialization was important uh and and really being lasered in in a certain area of finance. Uh and uh I had an opportunity to get exposure to some insurance professionals. I thought it was very interesting. Uh you know, when I go on-campus recruiting, the banks were there, right? The large investment companies, and everybody signed up for those interviews. And he kind of looked over at the insurance companies, and there's not a few, not too many people signed up. So uh it attracted me. And I I um I set I you know seeked out that opportunity. Uh and while while I was in college in Cincinnati, I actually met an individual, introduced myself, and ultimately uh worked that he owned an insurance agency in Cincinnati. And so I I offered to go work for him part-time, and he accepted. And he was gracious enough to send me uh during one of the uh winter breaks to license agent licensing school. So I studied the exams and passed actually passed my property casuality and life and health insurance broker license for Ohio just to get more exposure to the industry.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

I mean, straight out of undergrad, you were launched into an insurance career, which which really kind of set a path for you through uh and a trajectory for you.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

You know, it did because I at the time when I ultimately found a job in um so I graduated undergrad and I was gone for a year, so I couldn't really join an insurance company because I was I was I told everybody I'd love to work for you, but I had to go away for a year. Like, we'll come back at a year and see if it's still a job for you. Um but when I ultimately got back uh from all that training, uh I was able to find a job pretty rapidly. And the company I worked for initially, there was they hired 30 across the United States, they fired or hired 30 college trainees in the class and put you through about a six to nine month uh I guess to use an analogy to military, like a basic training of insurance, right? Um and yet I had so I had to your earlier comment, a lot of the folks in my class were uh maybe a liberal arts major or Spanish major or you know, political science major and decided to get an insurance. So I had already had that licensing background. I had the uh court club college courses and actual science and and and uh insurance uh uh classes, and so uh it allowed me really to excel pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yeah, you know, a few months back we had a fifth third uh associate general counsel Mike Keefe on the show, and I think a lot of people, you know, of course, because of the old Johnny Bench commercials with Fifth Third and everything, they associate Fifth Third and banking with Cincinnati. But Cincinnati is also, you know, quite has quite the insurance presence with Great American Insurance. You know, the Cincinnati Reds Stadium is named after Great American and the you know, the tower, the largest, you know, building in Cincinnati right across the street, as well as uh the Cincinnati Insurance Company. I may have messed up the name there a little bit, but there is quite an insurance presence there as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Well, across the entire state, it's a very large employer in the state of Ohio, everything from Cleveland, progressive and progressive corporations based in Cleveland. Um Columbus, Ohio has several insurance companies that are based there, corporate offices. Uh so yes, and not only is Cincinnati but across the state, it's a large employer uh in the insurance industry.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Well, and it sounds like the where you started, it was like you kind of said, your your training grounds into the into the insurance industry. And from there, it sounds like um you moved to Chubb and were there for the better part of two decades and really experienced a lot of growth there. Can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_02 10:10

I did, I did. So that that was one of the companies actually, when I was uh just wrapping up my undergrad degree in that spring, I interviewed with Chubb at Cincinnati, and then um I was very excited to wanted to join them. They're extremely fine company. Uh and when I said I had to go away for a year, that's one of the companies that said, uh, come back next year, you know, we can't hire you, subject to kind of thing, which may I, you know, I respected that. Um, but um ultimately I found a job in another company, and ultimately I I did uh move on to my career to chubb. Um and what allowed me to do is uh um very large company, a global company, uh very diverse in the product lines that they offer. And uh I so professionally I was able to grow rapidly uh in that working for that company.

unknown 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

And you know, your career has focused on underwriting. For listeners out there that may be fam unfamiliar with that, would you explain to them generally what is underwriting?

SPEAKER_02 11:13

In the insurance industry, uh the job function of an insurance underwriter, uh, think of it as like any business, there's dollars in and dollars out, right? Uh the dollars in part, the risk-taking uh part of the industry, that's an insurance underwriter. They are the ones that are looking over and reviewing insurance submissions that come in from uh insurance brokers or agents to the company. And they're the underwriters are the ones that are evaluating and underwriting the exposures associated with it. And that could be anything from property insurance to liability insurance to uh specialty lines, for example, like directors and officers or errors and admissions insurance.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

So, for instance, here at Collins and Lacey, you know, we represent um a lot of tractor trailer companies that have presence throughout the United States, um, large construction companies that that may be sued. So, for instance, right, uh for by way of example for listeners, if they want uh to be covered by a certain insurance company, um, I assume that underwriting is going to assess this company and try to figure out what are appropriate levels of coverage and what do premiums look like. Do you talk about that process a little bit? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

So typically um when the insurance company operates with insurance agents and brokers, uh the submissions, the the brokers bring the business to the carriers and they represent multiple carriers. And they will represent that that policy holder or that insured and represent their interest in seeking out the insurance. Um the underwriter will look at a plethora of information from applications to claim uh experience of that particular insured, safety practices, uh, you know, for example, let's say for liability, and then you get into the property insurance aspect of it. The underwriter is gonna look at the type of building, the occupancy, the construction type, the sprinkler system, fire protection system, all those data points. That's what's reviewed by the underwriter, and ultimately uh making a decision on the rating plans, the rates that they charge for those different lines of insurance, and ultimately quoting the insurance out back out to the broker. No.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Myself as a litigator, a lot of the times I'm dealing with an adjuster or c you know from an insurance company or a claims manager and my c and the client, right? Because let's say that um you have a construction project, something goes wrong, um, the construction company gets sued, they call their insurance company, the insurance company says, Hey, we're assigning this case to Collins and Lacey in Columbia, South Carolina. And so I'm working with the client, but the insurance company is going to pay the bill. And of course, the the client is always concerned about any type of settlement and how that's going to affect their premiums. Um, can you talk to folks about how that, you know, the effects of litigation on underwriting?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Oh, well, it's it's a huge issue across our industry. Uh well, number one, let's just talk about the actual process. So contractually, contractually, that's what an insurance policy is, right? An insurance policy is a contract. It's a it's a signed contract. Um, I'm at, you know, in addition to running the casualty lines, I'm also president of our paper companies. I call I refer to them as the paper companies. So when you get your insurance company policy, there's a name on the policy. Uh in the insurance company name, uh I am the president of those paper companies for our firm, and you actually see my wet signature on the policy. You'll see the president in the signature and the secretary in the signature. Um it's a contract, it's a legal binding contract. In those policies uh are clauses that the insurance company reserves the right to adjust and settle the claims on behalf of the policyholder. Um and so that that gives the legal aspect of the carrier, the insurance company, and how they negotiate, let's say, the with the claimant, and then yourself representing the company on the settlement. You can get in a situation where the policyholder may feel like, I don't see liability here. I don't understand why you're accepting liability, uh, or I don't necessarily agree with the amount that may be needed for the settlement because that's going to affect my loss experience and ultimately perhaps cause my rates to go higher in the future. That's a that's a constant dialogue. And I think what happens is ultimately, in most in most situations, in the vast majority of situations, the the policy holder, the the company who's the person that they insurer that's buying the policy, maybe a private company, privately held. So uh if the words it could be a public company, but if the individual ultimately, if that's the CFO, the comptroller, or the risk manager that is purchasing the insurance, ultimately they they typically buy in once they they understand perhaps the the jurisdiction they're in. Uh prior to the potential nuclear verdicts. Yeah, case case law. Uh and then nuclear verdicts, which is now basically uh a phrase you thrown around in the last three or four or five years in our industry, where the claim amounts, the actual amounts settling on claims is escalated so high that it in in several jurisdictions, multiple jurisdictions and states across the United States, where you can escalate a claim quickly into that five, ten, fifteen million dollar range. Um, and that's for example, in an automobile accident. It can happen pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, and I think a lot of times, you know, clients are concerned about the settlement amount. But my understanding is it's just not the settlement amount that um underwriters would look at in assessing what their premium should be in the future, but it's also defense cost. It's you know the whole package there of how much does it cost to defend it from you know how much are we paying a law firm to defend the case, plus how much is the settlement in order to assess the total value that that went into defending any certain claim. Um any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Absolutely. You could you can get in a situation and and uh in most jurisdictions where the the plaintiff has a lot of rights and they're you know they hire smart attorneys too, right? And so you know they can have the ability to um file, file motions, drag out cases, discovery, uh, and really string something out. So again, when when we're working, when the insurance company is is working with their adjusters and their panel council firms across the United States, the the key is I I believe that to really know that local jurisdiction very well. For example, we have not only our house council, but then we have panel firms, I refer to them as panel firms that we work with uh from New York out to California, uh from Illinois, you know, all the way across the United States down to Texas and Florida, et cetera. And so uh we believe you know, we have to have faith in the firms that we work with and the attorneys that know those little those areas and those jurisdictions. And ultimately, if um let's say it's a property damage claim, and we can approach the claimant and resolve it perhaps quicker than dragging out certain claims. Now, maybe bodily injury or or or soft tissue or a traumatic brain injury claim allegation could take a longer process, but sometimes uh you may get quick quicker settlement and you do avoid the long litigated expenses, which that also impacts a policy holder.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes it's just in the client's best interest to negotiate a quick resolution so that they can move on. Um, but other times you have inflated claims, like you were mentioning, sometimes the TBI cases where the medical records really have to be scrutinized to see does the demand line up with what the claim damages are. Um now with Chubb, that brought you to Chicago, I believe, in about 2010, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

It did. I I relocated to Chicago uh for a promotion opportunity and and worked uh started working in the Chicago area.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

But up to the and I think that kind of coincides with around the time that you retired from the Air National Guard, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 20:01

It basically did. At that point, I had 29 years in total. Um and um uh I was a um at a fighter, I I transitioned um up to a fighter wing. Um there was an F-16 fighter wing in Ohio. So when I got promoted to lieutenant colonel, I had to find a better I had to find a different job because I was over my I was one rank over my authorized rank into my radar unit. So uh I ended up going up to a fighter wing in Ohio um and uh took a position and ultimately became commander uh of the red logistics readiness squadron in the fighter wing. And I was there for nine years. And uh at the same time I was relocating in 2010, uh we got bracked uh like the third time, and the F we were an F-16 training wing. So we had 22 jets, 11 U.S. and 11 Dutch jets. We were a schoolhouse. And um, so uh we trained a lot of the Dutch pilots and how to fly an F-16. We also were a transition for our own U.S. pilots that were transitioning uh into F-16s from a let's say an F-14 or an F-18 or an F-15, uh, or perhaps a transport. So we were a lot of different students in different situations in their flight training. Um the um we lost that mission and went out to Hill Air Force Base. And so we trans we transitioned the wing into an intelligence surveillance reconnaissance, and some of the pilots stayed. And today they they starting back then and and today, they they fly drones. So uh they do a series of uh uh intelligence evaluations, and they also uh which is really current in today's world, um, they are flying drones based in Ohio. And uh so what the what the loss of Jets and uh my time in I just in and transferring to Chicago. I thought it was good timing for me to to pass the baton and and retire out. And I had a very strong captain that worked for me, and I thought he he would do very well uh in the future, and I decided to retire. Now that wing is it based out of Wright Pat in Dayton? It was near Wright Pat. It's the 178th wing there in Springfield, Ohio, which is about 10 miles from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

And isn't that amazing to think that you know you had this uh demanding profession going on in the insurance industry, and at the same time, your part-time job was helping to train F-16 pilots, including Dutch pilots.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah, I mean I did a dual, I call it a dual career career. So um we you know, even in I I thought it was very exciting to be in a National Guard. We deploy a lot. We you know, when I was in the 80s and 90s and up and through today, constant deployment. Um, and uh whether that's airlift, air refueling, uh, air uh radar combat radar uh uh you name it. Um, you know, I was Logistics Readiness Squadron Commander, right? Under me, part of the uh area of the base under me was base fuels, the fuels uh division. And many, many times I got uh requests coming down from the National Guard Bureau where they would need four or five airmen to go over the cutter or someplace else in the Middle East to complement another unit to work on the flight line to gas jets. And um example, or vehicle maintenance was another area that was under me for under logistics. So um Yeah, the National Guard is a big contributor to our national defense and deploy a lot. And I did a lot of that uh in the radar unit and also in the F-16 wing.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Well, and with the number of folks that you help train, I'm sure the reverberations of that are still being felt in the military, especially, you know, right now with the operations we have going on in Iran and throughout the Middle East. And obviously, our our thoughts are with those that are involved with that right now. Um so I'm sure that you just know plenty of folks that are still in the fight and who helped you who you helped train.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Well, in Ohio too, unfortunately, three of those airmen that were uh the six that were k killed in the KC-135 accident were from the 121st Air McCilling Range by Rickenbacker Air National Guard Base in Ohio. Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, that's horrible. And um, as an aside, one of the captains, his undergrads from the University of Cincinnati, he uh aerospace engineer.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah, well, you know, Neil Armstrong uh was a professor at uh in aerospace engineering at UC for for quite a while. Now, the w the the cap the captain did did he pass? He did.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

He was it was a major, a captain, and um an airman, uh boom operator that were air guard.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

So, you know, the the folks that are out there listening, um, you know, this is obviously a a very challenging time uh what's going on in the world right now. Um for those folks that are are veterans that may be looking for some type of transition, maybe they're on active duty, maybe they've already transitioned off of active duty, um, and they're they're listening to you and they're like, hey, you know, actually insurance sounds interesting. You know, it's a you know, in in business, insurance has to be part of your strategy. Um it's a key component, and and it's interlinked with finance, kind of how you were talking about earlier. Are there certain types of backgrounds that make for a good transition to the insurance industry?

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Well, absolutely. There there are there is a plethora opportunity. The insurance industry is a very large employer. We we talked about the state of Ohio recent earlier, but uh it's across the United States. And it actually spans the um globally, of course. Uh you know, our industry started out as the Lloyds of London, the send, you know, the old Lloyds of London in London and the tea house and the sign up for percentages of uh risk on cargo shipments uh, you know, as they've sailed across the world. London, that London market is still very vibrant, very large. Uh, I also run our business uh in our in Bermuda. We have a uh division in uh in Bermuda, and I'm responsible for running that division. Um and then across the United States. And then I would just say that um there is a lot of different jobs in the insurance insurance industry that could be fit filled by veterans who uh come in off of active duty um and and want to pivot their their careers. Let's say let's say you you know you join the military in your early 20s, you you come out in, let's say you're mid-40s, and you got a lot of life ahead of you, right? A lot of excitement ahead of you. And the you come out with a lot of skill, right? And there's a lot of jobs. Not only we talked a little bit about underwriting, but there's you know, I mentioned, I think I said that earlier there's it's a dollars in, dollars out business, like everything else. But dollars out is the claim adjusters, right? So uh our underwriters bring them money in, and our claim adjusters, or the ones I work with our attorneys. We talked about this where they settle the claims, and ultimately that's the money out. Well, you know, there's a lot of opportunities for folks that have uh backgrounds and a variety of specialties that could come into the claims department. We have, for example, we have a special investigations unit. Most insurance companies do, that uh at times have to get involved in some claim experience or claim settlements and investigations. Uh that's one area. Uh also the operation side of the business, the IT side. Most insurance companies, if not all, have very large IT. And and and and now uh like every other industry, AI is uh is is coming into our industry and being deployed. And there are folks coming out that have backgrounds in AI and and cyber and how to protect IT systems from cyber attacks, et cetera. So uh there are a lot of opportunities uh for veterans who wish to choose uh occup uh a career in the insurance industry.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, so for instance, next month in April, I believe it's Shook Hardy and Bacon is a law firm in Washington, D.C. They're hosting jobs for JAG. So I'm sure a lot of folks that are out there listening, please look into that. I think that's something that you'd be interested in. But for the folks that are interested in going into insurance, whether um it sounds you know like the the more interested in the underwriting side or the adjuster side, um, where are some good resources for them? Like a if you know, for instance, we got a lot of folks that they do their four years, they get some great training, um, and then they come out, or you know, they they do 20 to 30 years, they retire, and at that point in time, sometimes those can be hard fits because they may be a battalion commander and be a great generalist and a great leader, but not necessarily have the technical skill and need to be trained on that. So, what resources do you recommend for for people across the span of their careers?

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Well, I get you're 100% right. So let's let's let's assume that somebody spends you know four to seven, eight years, let's say, in an enlistment, uh, or they do their initial commitment as an officer and decide it's it's not for me and I want to come out. You know, I think the time the time to be thinking about that transition is not when you not when you your enlistment comes up or your commission uh commitment expires, right? You should be thinking about this probably two years or 18 months at least before that date, right? So that's number one. Number two is I would explore uh all kinds of databases. So there are there's recruiters out there that can help you, there's uh websites that can help you, there's social media sites that can help you. Uh, and then I think part of it variable would be where do you want to be physically uh post-military? Where would you like to be? Uh you mentioned South Carolina for yourself, um, you know, is a place to be. So I think once you get grounded, like, okay, I'm gonna I want to be in stay in, I'm in Florida, I'm gonna stay in Florida. Or I'm stationed in Florida and I'm retiring out and I want to come back up to the north. Or, you know, I think that that kind of points you in the right direction. Uh and again, if it's the insurance industry, there there's there's tremendous opportunities. And just because you don't necessarily have uh the correct background, you know, what I look for, and we hire a lot of, I call it mid-career professionals that pivot in the in our industry. For example, we have house counsel and had house counsel, uh uh, you know, our general counsel at one time. She's no longer with the firm, but she pivot. She was not in insurance, the insurance industry. And and I believe it was like 20 years or 15 years in something like that in her wall career, she decided to pivot and come into the insurance industry and ultimately rose up to become our general counsel.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yeah, and I have a few uh UC law school classmates that um uh started out as adjusters and have worked their way up to become vice president of claims management and you know, similar type jobs at insurance companies. So it seems like the legal background is a good fit for those that are interested in insurance.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

It is, it is. And and and you'll find in a lot of insurance companies, uh uh a lot of the senior leaders, inclusive of CEOs, have undergrad or have law, excuse me, law degrees. Uh and certainly the claims department does. Um usually, usually you're ahead of corporate claims. Uh uh, you know, ours went to Villanova law school. Um, you know, um our general counsel went to NYU uh course, right? So there's a lot of opportunities, and I refer to the house council, our in our employee council opportunities. Um and I I would say that doesn't necessarily require any uh experience per se in in the insurance industry. It's certainly helpful, but not necessarily a prerequisite. Um and then there's a lot of opportunities in underwriting also uh with with law degrees, um, and especially in the areas of um there's some niche, neat really niche lines of insurance. Uh for example, I mentioned earlier directors and officers insurance, errors in admissions insurance, um, lawyers professional insurance, uh, where you'll find individuals um that uh have law degrees and choose to uh be adjust claims or underwrite that business.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Well, and well, I I guess first we we haven't touched on this. Like now that you're the head of casualty at Argo, what are your responsibilities there?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah, so my my day-to-day job, I'm responsible for managing our primary general liability line of insurance, our excess liability insurance, our environmental insurance policies, all the policies, the liability policies we we focus in on one industry vertical called construction. So we write primary and excess liability policies across the plethora of construction exposures. Uh I have uh mentioned our Bermuda business, that's all excess liability, high excess limits out out of the Bermuda business, uh Bermuda market, and then I also manage all of our workers' compensation insurance across the United States.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

So it's a book of business that's probably hundreds of millions of dollars that you're responsible for, I would assume. And how roughly how many people are you supervising? I've got about 135. And you know, you were saying at the beginning, when you went into underwriting, you kind of went through insurance boot camp, but that there were folks there with liberal arts backgrounds also going, you know, through that with you. So I assume insurance companies still have this type of training for those that may not have the mathematical background that you did, that they can make that folks that you know went through the military, they may have a degree in English, but there's a pathway for them to make that transition into underwriting or into claims management if they're interested.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

There's opportunities for search sure, and there's also opportunities to learn on the job. And uh, you know, just you if you take you know, I take applicants all the time in different, you know, uh points in their career, and some have pluses and some have minuses, right? So let's say, for example, you were, you know, uh, you know, one one of my, you know, I've I've got underwriters that were in the Marine Corps, active duty, and have done extremely well for us. Um and uh they were maybe infantry or you know, artillery or something, you know. So it it's it's part of it is is that it's is we you know, and I know it's probably a lot of people come onto your podcast and say this, but it's the you know, it's what we learn in the military, right? It's discipline, it's being focused, um, and and and being able to bring ability to accomplish tasks that mean a means a lot. You know, I've I've I've worked with people, uh I've had friends and work with people that are really quote unquote book smart, right? And they can't uh open an umbrella in the rain, you know, and and they can't run a business or you know, so there's there's a there's always a balance though, right? Always a balance.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Well, and I think you can have a great educational background, and you may be a great worker, you may not, you know, and somebody with a a different educational background. What one of the best attorneys I ever worked with was enlisted, and his undergrad was from American Military University. Um, but he was a you know, he did that while he was on active duty, and so he didn't go to an Ivy League uh school undergrad or for a law school, but he was amazingly smart and just a hard worker with drive. And that's what you don't necessarily get on paper is what is this person's drive and willingness to just you know accomplish the mission and take care of the people, right? The two the two things that we uh always focus on in the military, right? Mission first, people always, and making sure that you're finding the people that are are wired to do that. Uh and you know, I I I think that's the thing with veterans that are looking to hire other veterans, you know, we expect them to bring that to the table, and we understand that maybe they don't have the exact technical competencies that we're looking for on paper, but we expect that they'll be able to come through the door and throw themselves into it and get up to speed quickly.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

I I can't I agree with you 100%. That's exactly how they do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Now, for those that may be interested in opportunities at Argo, where all um do you all have a presence throughout the U.S. and any certain things that they should look for with Argo?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

So we have offices all across the United States. We have a we have specifically, you know, we have office in in New York City, midtown area here in downtown Chicago in the Loop. We've got offices in Texas. Uh we have an office in Omaha, Nebraska. We have a physical office. We opened up that's uh nine months ago now in downtown Los Angeles. Um and you know, so there's opportunities all across the United States. Uh, and all of our job postings, obviously, it's on our public website, so it's on Argo, our Argo Group. If you look Argo Group and you'll see career opportunities, there's job postings there.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Great. And as we uh wrap up here, David, any parting words of wisdom for those listening?

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Well, specifically, if they're if they're uh still in the military looking to transition or they're veterans, uh, number one is you, you know, thank you for your service, thank you for your commitment. Uh and there's opportunities, whether that's the insurance industry or any other industry, you have a lot of skills. Whether you may not think you do, or you do. And um, you know, there's great opportunity for you in the future.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Hey, David, I really appreciate the, you know, like you said, the dual career you were able to manage for basically three decades, and you know, the opportunities that you're hoping to create for other veterans. I see what looks like an F-16 model in the background behind you there. So I'm glad to see that you're still fired up about your service.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you for this opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

I really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks a ton, David. And today's St. Paddy's Day, and you're in Chicago. I'm sure the the river's flowing green there. I hope you find the time uh to get out and get yourself a green beer today.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

I might have to stop on the way home.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Thanks a ton, David. Uh for those listening, please give the show a five-star review and invite folks to join our LinkedIn group to make it easier for others to find us so that we can help as many people as possible. Thank you for listening to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast, where we continue to serve together.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

You've been listening to the Military Veterans in Law Podcast from the Civil and Criminal Defense Team at Collins and Lacy Law Firm in South Carolina, with your host, Jared Fosknecker. For more information, visit Collinsandlacey.com. Not associated with the United States government or any of the military branches. All statements on the podcast are made in a personal capacity.