The Resident Table

S1 E5: When Data Matters... And When It Doesn’t

• The Resident Table • Season 1 • Episode 5

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In this episode of The Resident Table, our team of elite athletes and coach sit down to explore the complex relationship between data and performance. From power meters to heart rate variability, VO2 max tests to sleep tracking, we share candid insights on how data can drive success—or distract from it. You'll hear real-life examples from our preparations for Paris, where sometimes the numbers gave us the edge, and other times, trusting instinct and feel proved to be the smarter path. We also dive into the unique challenges of prosthetic technology, equipment customization, and why personal experience can sometimes outweigh the best lab results.

Whether you’re an athlete, coach, or leader in business, this conversation offers valuable lessons on balancing data with intuition to unlock high performance.

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Until next time—thanks for being part of the team.

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We're a decorated team of athletes

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you're going to learn how to create a world where diverse perspectives fuel high performance, include Thank you.

SPEAKER_05:

All right. Hey, welcome back to the resident table. I think, um, something, something that we talk a lot about, but I'm, I'm not really sure we, we fully understand or fully appreciate how it's being applied or how it's being utilized is, is, is data and like how we use data day to day. And to get the results that we got, but also knowing when data has its limits. I'll quote one of our physiologists. You guys remember Carwin Sharp. Carwin was a physiologist that worked with us at the training center going into Tokyo, and he was always adamant about measure what matters. And I think part of my job as a coach was to figure out what matters and how do we measure those components and those factors within a race within a training plan a training design and make sure we're using those measurements to so data does not equal knowledge and knowledge does not equal understanding and and ultimately we need an understanding of the demands of competition what it's going to take to be successful so we can train to that and A lot of times data just gets thrown out there for the sake of making yourself sound smart or like you know more about what you're doing than you really do. And so I was hoping you guys could share some ways you use data, we use data going into our successes at Paris, but also times where you realize like it's not appropriate. This does not matter. This is not something that I'm going to put a whole lot of weight into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it's hard not to matter. I mean, I think all of us are so data driven, which is good to a point until it's not good. And I mean, I'll be honest, I a lot of times I don't understand a lot of the really in depth data. So I just go off what I know, but I am 100% fully obsessed over my Garmin watch, which is like the simplest data you can have. But I think going into Paris or into any big race using the resources that we had at the Olympic Training Center. So I know one thing I did specifically was I tried to figure out what shoe was the best for me because everyone has different for different shoes. So I worked, I did a VO2 max test. We had six different shoes and I did the same test for each shoe. And we determined that one shoe was specifically much better for me to get the response I needed to run even faster. So I would say that. I mean, just having all the data that it was almost overload sometimes, I think, to the point where I kind of just let it go. And I would just look to you and say, is this good? And if you said yes, I was like, okay, and then move on.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. And I think that they're like with the shoes that was super, super appropriate, but also you've got to pay attention to what your sensations are. within the context of that data, right? So does this pace or this power, does it feel hard? Does it feel easy? Could I go harder? given a course like Paris on the bike, especially like you didn't have time to be looking down at a power meter, right? You had to trust your intuition. You had to trust your senses and you had to know that like, this is, this is feeling the way that it should feel. Maybe I can take a quick glance and know where I need to be or where I don't need to be. But within a race, I think data a lot of times can hold people back too, because they see something they're like, Oh no, I can't push past that. I can't go any harder. So I think, marrying data and rating and perceived exertion too. But then also going back to that episode where we talked about taking risk of like, Hey, I feel really good and this is an appropriate risk to take.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think that was, that was probably the biggest thing that we worked on for, for me was, you know, because you know, being totally blind,

SPEAKER_05:

you know,

SPEAKER_01:

it's not like I can go outside and in every single condition and, and, run at a certain pace, run at a certain heart rate all the time because not every, very, very few watches are accessible where it's gonna read out my heart rate exactly or my pace exactly. And the translating treadmill speed to outdoor speed was a big thing for me because I did so much training on the treadmill. And so we really focused on When we tested, we tried to test outside, especially on the run, so that I knew what a 335 per kilometer pace or a 540 per mile pace felt like. And knowing that effort translated to that speed that no matter what, I knew what race effort felt like. I knew what threshold felt like. Because at the end of the day, I can't look at data during the race. So I had to know what it felt like. And that was something we played around with, adjusting, okay, what does a 540-mile... feel like on the treadmill. Okay, now let's go out to the track. What does a 540 mile feel like on the track? What does a 540 mile feel like on a pavement path, on a sidewalk, on a dirt path? All of those things. And so I focused a lot on the feel. And the feel, it may not be hard, hard data. It's soft data, but it's still data. And we used that. So I think... And one thing that you did with me very early on, Derek, was we would go on team runs, long team runs, and quite often you were like, I don't care what pace you hold as long as you're holding a conversation. So it was actually one of those things where you almost took our watches away from us so that we didn't become slaves to the data.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

This is his first nightmare. Exactly. Well, so I remember, Derek, when we first started working together, I was using HRV. And it was like pretty new at the time. And I was stoked about it because, you know, yeah, it was novel. And I went to you and you were like, yeah, I don't like that. And I don't like it because I think it can get in the way sometimes. What's going to happen if on race day you wake up and your HRV says that you're in a hole and, you know, you're not going to have a good day. Like, then what? And so, you know, we kind of made the decision to move her away from that. And I think we were able to get away with it because we did have that in-person element. I was seeing you every day. You could tell if I was tired. I didn't need, you know, numbers to tell me that I was. But then, you know, years later... I kind of went back to tracking my sleep. And, you know, I think that we agreed that like I had kind of gotten the athletic maturity to be able to, to use those numbers in a more intelligent way. You know, knowing that it wasn't the be all end all, I wasn't going to wake up in the morning and be like, Oh, my ring says I can't train today. So I'm not going to train. It was more just, you know, another piece of of information that we could use, but not rely on. And so, um, you know, I feel like I did use some of that sleeping, uh, heart rate, HRV data going into Paris, not necessarily to dictate, but to, to guide some of the training. Um, if I was, you know, in, in a hole for multiple days in a row, but, you know, I think, One of the things that I remember distinctly about Paris is that, I mean, it was hard to sleep there. The village, the lights, the constant noise, just the fact that we were just so stimulated all the time. I slept like shit the whole time that I was there. And so about two or three days into village life, you know, my ring is telling me that You know, I'm sleeping five hours a night and, you know, everything is starting to trend lower. And I was like, all right, even though I, you know, can have the separation of like, oh, the data that I'm getting here isn't going to dictate my performance. it's just something that I don't really want to think about right now. So I took the ring off and I didn't put it back on again until like five months after Paris, because it was just going to be noise that I didn't want to deal with. And so, yeah, I think as far as like the sleep stuff goes, like there's certainly a time and a place for it. And, and in Paris I had to kind of make the decision that like, this isn't it. And I mean, I think that decision paid off.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. And I think, I think that's that disconnect between, data and understanding, right? And you've got to have the knowledge in between there somehow so that you understand how to process that data eventually. And your experience lent to that knowledge so that you could process it appropriately and not panic, not freak out. You could let me know what was going on. We could cross-reference it and maybe make some adjustments. But yeah, I think Kyle and Haley, those are both really good examples.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I just want to go back to useful data, sometimes throughout, especially the last year, 24, leading to Paris, during the run, for the run, like the key run, sometimes you use pace, sometimes you use heart rate, and the difference between, so the difference between using those two parameters leading the workout, and also using those between sea level and altitude, like what is the reason behind that?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, so there would be workouts where we would use pace or power on the bike, you know, a very objective measure of, largely objective measure of work performed. And there were times where we would use heart rate, which is still fairly objective, but heart rate is a response of work that's already been done, right? So there's a lag time in the heart rate actually responding. That said, when we change altitude, when we change environmental conditions, especially when it's either a lot hotter and more humid, our output is going to change in terms of our pace or our power. So we would work to, let's say hypothetically, I wanted you doing a four or five mile run at 610 pace. And that was in ideal temperatures and conditions, and that was at sea level. Well, you come to altitude, come to 6,000 feet in Colorado Springs, there's going to be roughly a 6% decrement in that pace. So what I want to try to find is what's the same pace where you can hold that heart rate that you were holding at sea level for 610. So we get the same physiological response. Cardiovascularly, it's very, very similar. but you can still achieve the load. Because if you try to do the 610 pace at altitude, you're going to make it two, two and a half miles, and then you're going to crack. Well, if we adjust and we just go off a heart rate and say, well, I want you to hold the same heart rate, I just need you to be prepared that it's going to be a lower pace or slower pace. That's not because you've gotten less fit. And then going into like– so we did our training camp was in Vichy, France. And going into Vichy, I don't know if you guys remember, but we did a– a lactic threshold test right before we left. Do you guys remember? And that was a risk for me because I'm like, oh shit, if this doesn't go well, you guys have been training so well, if this does not go well, I'm going to have to be big time sports psychologist. I'm going to have to be calling in Emily and everybody and figuring out how we get through this. But we did it at sea level. So at the Olympic and Paralympic Training Center, we have a room where we can adjust it down to sea level. So you guys did that threshold test at sea level so that we could have immediate data that we could utilize once we got to Vichy and train at sea level when we got there. So it was relevant. So I think that word relevant is what really matters, relevant to heat and humidity. Like when it gets hot and humid, your pace is going to slow down. your power is going to be decreased, relevant to environmental conditions and altitude. So knowing how to manipulate that data appropriately relative to the environment that you're going

SPEAKER_02:

to be in. So speaking for weather, most of my career, I don't check the weather. And I don't want to think about it. I don't want to know anything about the heat, especially for sprint distance. It's the short distance. Is that something that, so the reason why is I don't want to think about it. I don't want to like, it's how I'm going to be slow on the bike or I'm going to be slow on the run, whatever. I just tried to cancel all those elements. And in the back of my head, those elements are on everyone. Is that, do you think I can have, is that how I say this? Like, like knowing those conditions can help the performance rate today. And I'm speaking about sprint distance or it's good to cancel all that noise and just focus on, race day without thinking about those elements

SPEAKER_05:

i i think you have to respect them and it has to and again it it it serves to inform how you're going to approach the day because if you know you guys remember going into tokyo tokyo was going to be like 80 degrees and 80 humidity you could physiologically you're not going to be able to do the same work in those conditions versus if it was 55 degrees and 15 humidity You're going to hit that upper level of your core temperature. That's going to tell your body you've got to slow down just to stay alive, to keep going forward. And so I think you have to let it– and that's part of– Haley alluded to this. That's part of being that athletic maturity and that athletic IQ and understanding what's going on around you and being able to adjust. Like what Kyle was talking about earlier, who is most adaptable and who's being honest about And that's part of experience because you'll get a very new, less experienced athlete who won't pay attention to that. They'll go out at a pace that they would normally hold, but because of the heat and humidity, now all of a sudden that fatigue is exponential and they're going from six minute pace down to seven 15 pace by the end.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think, you know what, like looking at the, looking at conditions, like, the data like we have with weather, heat, humidity, that kind of stuff, it can help prepare you for how to hydrate and fuel going into a race. I had one of my best races ever in Miami at Patco going into Paris because we knew that I historically had not performed well in heat and humidity, but Um, we arrived a few days earlier than usual. Um, we adjusted a little bit. Uh, I was hydrating and fueling properly and correctly. And I went out and had my fastest five K ever coming off the, you know, coming off the bike. Um, And it wound up being a sprint finish that no one was expecting for that race to be that close. And then that experience then helped me feel even more confident going into Paris. So me knowing that, okay, it's going to be hot and humid, I have to prepare in the days leading into that so that I know that I have stuff in reserve so that i can go to the well when it's necessary because back you know back in wisconsin you know back in 2021 at the continental championships at pacco continental championships um i let the weather psych me out and it was a hot humid really windy day and i went out guns a-blazing on the run paid for it probably should have won that race wound up in second you know, and so, so it can go both ways, but it was, it was a learning experience so that, you know, we now, we learned that, okay, sometimes we have to use data to prepare ourselves ahead of time.

SPEAKER_05:

And sometimes it gives you that confidence to realize it's okay if I'm going a little bit slower. Like I trust, I trust the, the pacing and the process. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I'm just, so I remember like, um, going to test event 23 Paris test event, uh, for all of us, um, like the plan with the bike, I'm talking about the bike course specifically. And after doing the test events and you had all the data from racing, you changed course, like the strategy, how to approach the Paris course, like how the data helped you change your perspective about the bike course before and after the test event.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, yeah. So coming out of the test event, so just for context, typically we'll have an event the year before the games where we get to race on the, on the, at the venue on the course, um, really helpful for a lot of reasons. One, you know, for the, for the people that are putting the race on, they get to make sure everything's run as smooth as possible for the athletes and the coaches. We, we get to see what it's like and we get to understand what the competitive environment is going to look like. And I, I think, you know, I knew intuitively that was going to be very staccato bike course, right? It's going to be a lot of accelerations and, and, and, um, And then you kind of recover or you settle into more of a steady state. And then you accelerate again, coming out of a corner and so on. But what that test event really demonstrated was there were sectors of that course. And so what we do is we name different sectors on a course. So we would give them specific names that we have a common language on that course. And looking at different sectors, you could see that athletes were hitting their terminal velocity. So like their fastest paces, their fastest speeds right before a turn. So they were spending, you know, 700, 800 meters to get up to a terminal velocity only to then decelerate, break, and then burn a match to get back up to it. And so it was a paradigm shift in my mind of like, Hey guys, these are spots where you want to burn a match. And let's try to get up to that terminal velocity a little bit quicker and and then hold it a little bit longer. If you can hold 27 miles per hour, three seconds longer, that's gonna have a big difference over the course of the entire race. So it really changed my mindset of how do we analyze this course? How do we set ourselves up to be as effective as possible? And really that test event allowed us to isolate different sectors where we might burn a match, where we might go a little bit harder than we normally would, where we carry speed, where we might get some natural recovery and so on.

SPEAKER_01:

Howie, I'm actually curious. How did you do the entire race with your arms? Yes.

SPEAKER_05:

We're

SPEAKER_01:

so proud of you. How do you actually use data to... The rest of us were using our upper body in the swim and then there's a little bit of upper body usage on the bike for stabilization and all that. But then we're And then there, there's a little bit of arm action on the run to, you know, for momentum and technique purposes and all that. But like, is there data that helps you balance the discipline across all three?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And I think it goes back to like a little bit of feel you kind of, the more you race, the more experience you get, the more you can feel your body. And you also collect data from races that. prove what you kind of already know. And that's, and that's where your strengths and weaknesses are. And so obviously we're going to try to increase our weaknesses in training and maintain our strengths. But realistically going into Paris, like I knew my swim was still my weakest event. My bike was going to be my strongest. And so you have to make a tactical decision. Like we've talked about in the past where it's like, do you, do I, uh, Realistically, knowing that I'm not going to hold on the feet of, you know, basically anyone. Do I burn up all my matches to try to do that and then know that the rest of my race, because I've killed my arms, will be shit? Or do I take the L on the swim and then just hammer the bike? And that's exactly what we decided to do based on data from Paris the year before and the races leading up to it. It was really just a, you know, a tactical race of like, hey, okay, we'll give it to him on the swim. And then we're going to take it back on the bike. And, you know, I, I did have the slowest swim time in the H ones, but I had the fastest bike time by, you know, a minute over the next guy on the bike. So again, it comes down to feel, you know, how am I going to finish the entire race? And then how am I going to finish it in a way that is the fastest way to do it? So,

SPEAKER_01:

well, and then I think in like in the past that also guided your, your training as well. Like most of us swim five days a week. There was a time when, five days a week of swimming was actually becoming detrimental to you. So you cut down to three days a week so that you could spend more time on the bike and that it, What went into that decision?

SPEAKER_04:

And again, I've increased... Being a bad swimmer? Honestly, I mean, it's like we talk about. It's like if you want to get good at something, people say you have to practice it. But if you're practicing it poorly, you're not going to get good at it. I was not a good swimmer, and I was not getting better at swimming. So the more I swam, the more I swam poorly, the more damage I did to my shoulders, which then limited the amount of time I could put in the bike, limited the amount of time I could... on the run so we found out okay until we can swim well and efficiently like let's back off the swim so you're still getting touches in the water but let's be able to increase the amount of time you're on the bike so when it comes to race day like yeah like i said i'll be a little slower on the swim and we're working on that but i'll be able to crush on the bike and that's exactly what happens

SPEAKER_05:

i would say too there's there's times where the data is actually betrayed some of you, like Haley, I'm thinking specifically of when you went to the knee and there was really compelling data that suggested this was better, but I mean.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mentioned it in a previous episode of trying to run with a prosthetic with a knee. And, you know, I really wanted to be certain that I was making the right decision. So early on in the transition, when I still had the muscle memory of running with the fixed leg, I took both of them into the lab. And, you know, we did VO2 max tests on both. on both and the data showed that the knee was a little bit more efficient. I was expecting a bigger difference to be honest, just because visually it looks so much smoother, but the data did suggest that, yeah, there was a small improvement with the knee. The problem was that that study was done in the lab on a treadmill in perfect conditions. And what I found was that when I went outside and I had to navigate the real world, things weren't the same. You know, anytime that I went over a crack in the sidewalk or a slight downhill or, you know, maybe a wet surface. the knee buckled and I fell. And so, you know, I just, you probably did.

SPEAKER_04:

I know I

SPEAKER_01:

did.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and so, um, so yeah, like the mental energy that was involved with, um, you know, me running on the knee, every step that I took, I was just thinking about, I have to land this perfectly or else I'm going to fall. And so, yeah, like the, according to the data, like I might've been able to run 1% faster with the knee, but you know, the mental load that that required was, In my opinion, it wasn't worth it because reality was I hated running. Like the three years that I spent on the knee, I hated it. Every time I went out the door, I hated it. And three

SPEAKER_03:

years, you spent

SPEAKER_00:

three years. Yeah. Yeah. So I gave it a fair shot. But, you know, when I finally did return back to the. the old leg, I was like, oh, wow, I actually really love this again. I want to train more. And then I was actually able to train much more consistently because I wasn't making these constant tweaks. I was enjoying it. I was getting more miles in, more consistent training. And when you do that, you can probably actually get like 3% to 5% faster. Amazing how that works.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's what happened with me and my shoulder. I

SPEAKER_05:

think, too, Haley, we went down the rabbit hole because we went to the biomechanics lab at University of Colorado up in Boulder and did... but ground reaction testing on their super specific treadmill. And that demonstrated that, uh, the leg with the knee is actually better. You're getting more ground reaction forces. You're getting more return and all of these things. And then ultimately you came to me and you were pretty frustrated and you're like, look, my racing's not getting better. Yeah. And like, so, so like, all these data points that were suggesting improvement, but the data point that matters when it comes to high performance, when it comes to winning medals is like, okay, how is it working in the real world? Are you getting better? And you were right. And we had to accept that like, hey, that's three years that we put into this, but it's time to move on. It's absolutely. And so I think that's another example of data not equaling knowledge and not equaling understanding of what was demanded. Mo, I mean, what's the data? I mean, you got to have some data stories here because God only knows how many power files I've... I

SPEAKER_02:

mean, I think the first thing is with cycling. I mean, I caught up very quickly to it. I think it's back to the point, what's the purpose of data? And cycling is a good example, like having... strong power for a course like Paris doesn't mean it doesn't equal like high performance so you need to be training specifically for that like match burning a match like having that like sprinting like you need to have uh a specific uh train like workout for that race and the appropriate reading of that data to be able to be successful.

SPEAKER_05:

And I remember, and Melissa, I think we went through this with you too, of getting both of you to accept that, like, it's okay for me to get back down into my arrow bars and lose 20, 30, 40, 50 Watts, but actually gain two miles an hour. I mean, there was a very specific workout mode that you did out at PPIR. Where your only goal for that workout was to take what, like six or eight and maybe Melissa, you did it six or eight pedal strokes and then get back into your aero bars because you were spending so much time out of your aero bars producing this power that was like, you're patting yourself on the back for, cause it was so high, but you were not gaining the velocity that you should have been. You were not reaping the rewards from it. And I think we made that observation out there in that training environment for, for both of you. And it's like, Hey, we just cause you're producing high power. it's not translating into speed. So it's not really helping you. So we have to find a way to, to, to be more economic.

SPEAKER_03:

It took a while to let that sink in for me at least.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I like to compare it to like a, a motorcycle to a semi truck. Semi truck is creating way more power.

SPEAKER_03:

But it's so on aerodynamic and it's so heavy, right?

UNKNOWN:

We're in a power to weight to aerodynamic sport on the bike.

SPEAKER_04:

And then you get on a motorcycle. It's not making, you know, maybe 150, 200 horsepower, but it's able to go a lot

SPEAKER_02:

faster. You don't need to compare that. Compare cycling. To a hand cycle. To a hand cycle? Zero CDA. I mean, y'all's coefficient of drag was, I mean, we had you guys

SPEAKER_04:

in Arizona. Your CDAs, nuts. Yeah, I mean, that was before we made it really. And that's

SPEAKER_05:

where it goes to like measuring what matters because for the hand cycles that had such a small CDA, doing something as simple as like, remember, you know. Just a mirror. Turning the mirror down, save like two or three watts. Well, that's significant when you're already, when you're talking about. But

SPEAKER_02:

how we need to look at his hair while riding. I tuck it

SPEAKER_05:

into my

SPEAKER_02:

helmet.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm

SPEAKER_04:

jealous of his hair. Let's not encourage Howie to cut his hair. I tuck it into the helmet. It's fine. And

SPEAKER_05:

the data is helpful to look back on. Are we making progress and where are we making progress? And ensure that the progress that we're making is working towards the demands of competition, right? Because you can make progress, but if it's not working towards the demands of competition, then is it the biggest return? in that competitive environment where we actually race really good in your training environment, pat yourself on the back because you're producing high wattage, big numbers and so on. But ultimately it matters. How does that translate into the competitive environment?

SPEAKER_03:

That's why it's fun to be able to look back, like having used a coach for so many years. I mean, we can look back even now, like training for, you know, the, the marathon, being able to look back two years ago and see where we're at, where we're at now, just the benefits of that data. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Right. And that data, that training history helps guide us towards the build and where we start and that sort of thing, too. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think I have one more point to add how to use data, especially for part of sport. And this is an issue that's been I'm still we still like don't have the right answer to it. we use like a running leg. So basically it's a socket and a blade. And those blades, they come different categories, different stiffness, depending on the pace, depending on the effort that you put on. So it's something that we are still working on, how to use data to help us find the appropriate stiffness that can help us perform whether it's like For example, we were talking about this with Haley earlier today, like having a leg for easier runs and one for race pace because the blades behave differently and it can affect the performance.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, we've had those conversations. And just so people understand that... Many of our lower leg amputee athletes are running on essentially what looks like a leaf spring, right? You know, so it's a blade of carbon that curves down at the bottom and the amount of force that they can put on that spring when they land is, and I don't know the proportions and the exact physics of it, but that is relatively considerable. equal to the amount of ground reaction force and return so the energy return that you're going to then get back out of it and it you guys correct me because i've learned all of this from you like where you land on that blade if you're landing forward closer to the toe further back closer to the curve the um the stiffness of how much it actually compresses how quickly it then rebounds all of those things make a difference in how it feels for you to run. And I mean, Mo, for you especially, like there was so much trial and error. I can't count the number of times I saw you with like a socket set on the track, changing out blades or changing out little, and you ultimately had to, I had to develop trust in you because it would frustrate me at first. I'm like, oh my God, he's always messing with something. So I had to trust that you understood that what you were looking for intuitively. And we might not actually be able to measure that, but we needed to find a safe space where we could have that trial and error and let you have that, give you that, that, that rope.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, it's very, very specific because I don't have a typical amputation, not a below the knee or above the knee. I have like PFFD and I might hold on. So I, PFFD, proximal femoral focal deficiency. Look, I'm so smart. I'm so smart,

SPEAKER_03:

you guys.

SPEAKER_02:

So basically, I don't have the hip joint. It's not connected to my limb, so I run on my... All the weight that I put on my leg is from the ischium. And all the alignment recommendations from the manufacturer, they don't apply to me. So the challenge... First of all, the biggest challenge is making the right socket. Because I have a foot, it's so big. And making that is just so much work. And I had to travel all across the country and abroad to try to find the right socket. And then alignment, we had to try so many things. Because when you get a blade, there is this brochure that shows you the recommended alignment and all that stuff. Nothing that applied to my alignment. We had to play a lot. So when you add that to what is an easy run versus race pace for 5K, that also adds more complexity to it. Right.

SPEAKER_05:

Your mechanics change.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, everything changes. If you take a video of me running easy versus a race pace, it's totally different. And that's because my wife, she's a CPO and... we'll try to find the right alignment and just drive her crazy how it's different. And yeah, we have to play with it. So,

SPEAKER_05:

so that I've been thinking about this a lot and I think it's, it's helpful for everyone to understand, um, walk us through all like, yes, you're right. And it's something we talked about really early on of like, oh man, you should have a leg for an easy run. You should have a leg for an endurance run, a threshold run and a race leg. Yeah. Walk us through the challenges of getting appropriate equipment. Do you just go to a store and tell us what this looks like?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, there's a prosthetic company called Tolles Mustaqua Prosthetics based out of Colorado Springs. It

SPEAKER_04:

seems like a self-serving pitch.

SPEAKER_03:

Hey, a sponsor of the resident table.

SPEAKER_04:

So

SPEAKER_03:

is

SPEAKER_04:

Giddy Coffee. We'll let

SPEAKER_03:

anybody sponsor this. Giddy Coffee and presenting sponsor Dorada Training. Let's not forget that.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow. You guys are getting good at this. Hey, we're learning

SPEAKER_03:

training, by the way, is helping many of us achieve our athletic goals. But it's a process. I feel like as an amputee, it is such a process. Once you get it good, I feel like it's good. But to go in to get a socket fit, a socket is a piece that connects to the residual limb that you have as an amputee. And my socket fits nobody else. It's completely custom to me. So going in, getting the measurements, the casting done, there's check sockets that are like these moldable pieces that can kind of form to your body. And then, I mean, it is a time-consuming... I mean, how many hours? Hours. Hours. Hours per leg. And then Haley, for example, she wants to try running with a knee and without a knee. That's two completely different setups that she has to go in and get fit for. And each one of those is... And it's going to the office, leaving, coming back. I mean, it's multiple trips of time and effort and everything to try to get not only the fit right, but also the alignment right to make you as efficient as possible.

SPEAKER_05:

And same on the bike, too, if you're using

SPEAKER_03:

a stump

SPEAKER_05:

cup. The

SPEAKER_03:

stump cup is, for those that are not familiar, it's a custom piece that attaches to the frame of the bike. And the residual limb that we have as amputees kind of fits into that stump cup, like similar to a socket that we would have on a prosthetic. and we pedal with just one leg and it seems seems backwards but it allows us to get into a more aerodynamic position so we're able to kind of put the pressure through this stump cup so but again one inch forward one inch back one inch up one inch down it's it's i mean it's it's not inches it's centimeters that can make an ultimate difference and that

SPEAKER_05:

stump cup static and and you guys have you know it doesn't move once it's on the on the bike no so you unwrap you rewrap and it's like this

SPEAKER_03:

constant

SPEAKER_00:

yeah even if you want to make yeah a couple millimeter adjustment a adjustment, which is something that like we would feel, yeah, you have to completely redo everything. And so it's, it almost just becomes like not worth it. You know, I feel like you end up kind of settling for like, well, this is good enough. Well, I feel like

SPEAKER_03:

Haley, you got into, you were, so you were millimeters, right? You had the piece, you guys worked at Derek. I mean, you guys made a custom piece, like you worked hours to get it. And the I'd be curious to know, cause I feel like mine was kind of set and I was like, well, I'm just going to kind of deal with it. Like whatever it is. And you spend the time to make those millimeter adjustments and just, I mean, you're obviously much stronger on the bike than, than I am. Like, would you think it was that, that finite adjustments? I don't know if I am though. Cause

SPEAKER_00:

it's not like we're like in the gym though. I feel like we're awfully similar in terms of, you know, that's

SPEAKER_03:

gym versus bike.

SPEAKER_00:

I just, I don't know. Like I, I do think a bike position is, as an above knee amputee using a stump cut matters so much. And I don't know if there's anyone out there who's doing it perfectly. I think we're all trying, but that's the problem. Like there's no research that's being done on it. So there is no gold standard. Um, That's something that I would... We've talked about this ad nauseum. I would love to see us develop a little bit more knowledge around that. I think to

SPEAKER_04:

make it relevant to the people that are probably watching this that might be age groupers and stuff is the importance of bike fit and what it's going to take. Even in a regular bike fit, for someone that doesn't have a disability, one person's fit might not fit another person at all that's the exact same look, right? And so... I think as we talk about data and collecting data, you know, you can spend$5,000 on a set of disc wheels or you can spend a couple hundred bucks and get a bike fit where you're actually going to produce power in an aerodynamic position that's going to make you fast and that's what you learned what we've learned watching you guys mess with your stump cups and adjust them is there's a position in there you might not have found the gold standard like you said but by playing with your bike fit and the stump cup fit you can find a position that allows you to produce the most amount of power for the type of race you're in for a sprint for some people it's a longer distance you might not be able to hold this aerodynamic of a position, but create more power to say. And so that's where those, that data becomes individual and you can't freak out about it too much. At some point you have to call it what it is maybe and just settle in and say, all right, you know, I'm going to sit here. I'm in a good enough position. It's just going to take some time to develop the muscle memory.

SPEAKER_03:

Cause it does take the time and the effort to try these new things. Like I've been my running leg for like nine years and could I get a new one? I probably should. Cause any day it's going to just break, but I'm so like, it's, it's such the perfect fit and the time and the effort to get a new one at this point, especially training for something specific, um, It's not worth the effort. But that's for me. That's my personal choice that I just chose to kind of stick with it and go with it.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, there's an opportunity cost, right? Because to Haley's, all y'all's points, like it takes time to do this. And that's time away from training. That's time away from, you know, doing the work that is going to have an impact on your fitness. Also

SPEAKER_02:

financial cost. Yeah. I can't even imagine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. So I think, I mean, There's a time and a place for data, and you have to have an understanding of what you're using it for. And more importantly, how is it informing what you're going to do? So how is it informing and helping you gain knowledge? And then combining that knowledge with the real world, with what's actually happening so that you then have an understanding of the appropriate application. So data informs the knowledge and then ultimately the knowledge helps you have an understanding of what it is you need to do to be successful. So thanks again for joining us for another resident round table. We look forward to seeing you next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you to our sponsors and partners, Dorada Training, Giddy Goat Coffee Roasters, and Tolsma Stockwell Prosthetics. If you'd like to support the show, please email theresidenttable at gmail.com. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at theresidenttable.