Good Luck Dean and Carl

Jen and Dagda start with a deep dive into Dean Schneider, a Swiss entrepreneur who sold his financial business at 27 to create Hakuna Mipaka—a 1,000-acre animal sanctuary in Africa. They discuss his lion pride (Dexter, Snow, Nyla), the controversy over disciplining a lion, and the challenges of funding a sanctuary without exploiting the animals or compromising integrity.

The conversation shifts to bison vs. beef, teriyaki deer jerky, and memories of Tatanka restaurant. Jen shares why she's obsessed with Dean's content, the capuchin monkeys (Momo and JJ), and why feeding lions zebra organs is both fascinating and brutal.

Dagda brings up the upcoming Dungeon Crawler Carl tabletop RPG Kickstarter, sparking a deep dive into LitRPG (literary role-playing games), character progression systems, and why Dungeon Crawler Carl is one of the most popular series in the genre. They compare it to Play to Live by D. Rus, debate which apocalyptic world they'd rather live in (spoiler: neither), and discuss the mechanics of skill leveling, affinities, and stat sheets in fiction.

It's part wildlife conservation, part carnivore diet talk, part LitRPG nerd-out—classic Conversations Over Coffee.

#podcast #deanschneider #dungeoncrawlercarl #princessdonut #kickstart #litrpg #wildlifeconservation #HakunaMipaka

Artwork: Aristal

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to Everyday Life. Thank you for joining our podcast, Conversations Over Coffee. My name is Jen. And I'm Dagda. And we're gonna hit you with the explicit content warning right off the bat. This podcast does include adult situations and adult language from time to time.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

I'm an angel. I never fucking cuss.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Okay. Anyways, you ready to go? Oh yeah. Alright, let's go. Anyway. Anyways. Anyways, we don't have to talk about that twat gobbler.

unknown 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

He's such a fuck that dude.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

What is what is he's such a wanka. He don't get no twat to play with.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

You bloody wanka.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Fucking useless piece of shit.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Anyways, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:56

I'm doing all right. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I'm fine. I'm fine. Sometimes you start recording at the most inopportune moments, and I'm just like, uh, I feel like a deer in the headlight. It's like, uh well, it's not that we have different laughs on mic or off mic. It's that sometimes people might take the laughing out of context. Especially, you know, and you have to think about it in this way, like, especially if they've just finished, like if they're binging, like we're with them while they're doing their 10-mile cycle episode, right? They're doing their cycles, getting their steps in or whatever. And so they're out there listening to us, and we might have just finished talking about like, so the deer died. And then the next thing they hear, if they're skipping the outro, is ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

unknown 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

It sounds wicked.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

That's okay. The deer was tasty.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Like, hey, don't ever waste a deer. Make deer jerky out of it. Deer jerky's pretty good, pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I like I like teriyaki deer jerky better than I like regular deer steaks. But that's just me.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

I've never had teriyaki deer.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Oh, teriyaki teri jerky is really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

There's a uh place out in uh in well in Pierce County, it's uh in a little city, and uh yeah, yeah, they make uh they make all kinds of venison jerky. Teriaki. I found it. Sweet and salty or sweet s sweet and hot hot and sweet. Hot and sweet, that's the other one.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Hot and spicy.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Hot and sweet, original. Sweet and spicy.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

I found out the other day something that I did not maybe I heard it a long time ago, but I didn't remember. Okay. That bison actually um exists in Europe as well as North America. I thought bison was only in North America.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

I don't know. I think we're the only ones who eat it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

I'm pretty sure they eat it. Uh well, like in England, they went extinct because people were fucking eating them until they weren't weren't anymore.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I mean, it's not that hard to go go up to the Grand Tetons, capture a few, and haul them across the sea, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

So what they did is there's still a um I can't remember if it was Ukraine or Poland. One of those sort of Soviet-edge countries that um still had a very small number of them. It was like 25 of them or something.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, Pol Poland or Blaris or something like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

And they started breeding them and reintroducing them to a bunch of the countries. So, like England relatively recently, they reintroduced them. And they hadn't been in England for like 4,000 years.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah, that's crazy. And I'll tell you what, bison is delicious.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Yes, it's tasty.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Um, so we recently switched over to primarily when we're having a quote beef, it is bison. That is our primary when we're having red meat, we're primarily having ground bison. And I can tell the difference between ground bison and ground beef now. Like so easily, because my partner made pasta last night for dinner, and um he does a really good job with spaghetti, but I could tell the meat was he'd actually used like ground beef and ground pork. Um, and it was good, but it wasn't as good as when I used ground bison last time.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yeah, I used to there's a restaurant up here called Tatanka.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

And it's a it's a small restaurant. There's like one dude who cooks for the place.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah, if you're lucky, you'll there'll be two people working that day.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yeah. And so, yeah, most of the time there's only that dude in there.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Um Tatanka burgers.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Yeah. And yeah, it it it had been a long time. Actually, the last time I went up there was with Chuck.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Oh, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Um what a great last meal to share that one.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Well, I mean a private meal. Like we shared a meal for mom's birthday, so or yeah, Mama D's birthday.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Anyways. Yeah. That place was fucking great. They used to have they they still kind of do. They used to have a whole plethora of different hot sauces. Like when I was living with my buddy from high school, and we were both super into hot sauce. So, like every time I went there, I'd try a different hot sauce because that, like I said, they had like 20 different types of hot sauce. Um, and yeah, it was good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Remember when you, you, me, and my ex went when we did a staycation because none of us could afford and we went to the zoo, yeah, and then we went there and had burgers, and he was just like blown away.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

And back then it was expensive as fuck. Yeah, it's still pretty fucking expensive, but it was so worth it because it was like, oh my god, this is my best burger ever.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

So yeah. Um, yeah, that's amazing. Everybody should eat bison. Yeah, it's a cleaner meat.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

It's also naturally leaner, it doesn't have as much body fat typically. Um, I don't know. I like my lots of fat beef. I mean I usually buy 80-20.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Um well, that's because you do the the carnivore meals.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yes, I need more fat because I'm not having as much carbs.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah. And I've cut back on carbs most of the time. I would say it's like the 80-20. 80% of the time I'm not having very many carbs. So, like last night I didn't have any pasta, but I did have bread, which is still carbs, but less carbs than if I'd had the pasta without.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Um, but usually at least once a week we do ground bison taco salads. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah. It's just, it's just joy in a bowl. It's just just it's just happiness in a bowl. And uh, yeah. I mean, that's gonna be the meat that survives when the apocalypse happens. Because they're a hardy animal.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Yeah. I mean, cows are pretty hardy too.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, but bison don't need their feet trimmed regularly.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Well, neither do cows if they're living in their natural environment, right? So if they're out actually walking around like they would normally, their their hooves wear down.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

We've all seen Graham. Yeah, they're not living in none of those cows are living in the fucking He's got a couple of the cows that are that live out on the pastures in what would be considered their natural environment. It's just so boggy there. Yeah, but they still have to be checked because sometimes their toes will grow long.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Graham don't die in the apocalypse, live so we can have good beef. Honestly. Well, speaking of animals, so I don't get on YouTube all that much. But I told you last week that I was peeking at YouTube and had seen a couple things I hadn't even thought about for a while.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

And one of the things that I'd seen, and now I'm seeing on my Facebook feed all the time, is a guy. His name is Dean Schneider. Do you know who that is?

SPEAKER_03 7:54

It sounds familiar. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

He's a guy. He look like a man. Huh? His name's Dean Schneider, and he's actually a Swiss entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

And he's fucking hella smart.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

So he was born in 90, and in 2017, which makes him 27 years old. So when he was 21, he started his as an entrepreneur, he started a financial system, right? And different financial things.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

He sold the business and went and bought land in uh Africa and started an animal sanctuary.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Oh, okay, that dude. Okay. With the lions and shit.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah, it's okay. It's hakuna mipaka, which in Swahili means no limits. Which is which is interesting because uh hakuna matata means no worries.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So I was just like, wait a minute, when I first read that, I went, wait a minute. Hakuna matata. And then I had sung the song in my head, I'm like, okay, that means no worries. Oh, it's not Hakuna Matata, it's Hakunamipaka. And he has a lot of names after the the Lion Kings. He's got a he's got a Pumba, he's got a a snake called Khan, which of course obviously that's a throw to the jungle book.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Yeah. Which why did he name the snake Khan? That's the name of the tiger. Also the coolest character. In the jungle book? Also the coolest character in the fucking uh uh goddamn it. It's something tails, but it's got blue bear and fucking blue bear and fucking con.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

That is the jungle book.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And con is the snake.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Khan's the tiger. Khan's a snake.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Okay.

unknown 9:40

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

It's like Ka or something like that is the name of the snake.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Well, you have to look it up.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

He he's big in hypnosis too, because he hypnotizes people any fucking way. With his stupid swirl eyes.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

You're talking about a snake?

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Yeah, the snake from John.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Listen to me.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Listen, Baloo.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Baloo's the bear's baloo bear, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Baloo.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Yeah, blue. Blue bear.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Not blue bear like blue balls, like baloo the bear.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Well, what I think I corrected myself after I said blue bear. Oh, yeah. Because he's blue.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

I I love the bear necessities.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Yep. Simple bear necessities.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

That's right. Um, but what's interesting is so he names, he's got a lot of the characters uh from Disney films in there. He's got his lion pride that's got six six lions, three male, three female. And of course, he's got Big Dexter, and he's got Snow and Leo, and then he's got it's Ka.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

And show me Khan.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Well, there's a picture of Khan right there, but yeah, I want to see that his name actually is Khan. I don't want to say he's have you show me a picture of a cartoon tiger and go and just believe me. Because you would try to fool me knowing you. You'd be like, uh, you're smart, but you're not that smart. Sheer Khan. It's not just Khan, it's Sheer Khan.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Yeah, it's Khan. Anyways. Sheer Khan. He is the coolest character in in Tailswinds.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Oh, Sheer Khan?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Yeah, because he's like a pirate and also like a fucking like CEO type dude.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

He's kind of fucking, he's a great villain.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Well, I think it's really interesting that so Dean Schneider, like I said, he's he's like this smart dude.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Like, can you imagine? Like, uh, you don't have to imagine being smart, so don't go there. I know. I'm the golden child of thossum. Uh, but but can you imagine being that determined at such a young age? 21 is very young.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

That you're like, all right, I have to figure out a way to do better. And and he does, and he he's an entrepreneur and he sells his shit. And at 27 years old, he says, fuck it all. And he goes and he creates an animal sanctuary in Africa. And it's made up of 400 hectares, which is a lot of land. And they've got all kinds of animals there: zebras, antelope, giraffes. Something like that. But he has 400 hectarectares.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

And uh, but he's so during COVID, I found him during COVID.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

And uh, I am like most of the planet out there where you're you can't afford to send money, but you'll you'll view and click to support them because that works towards their their money goal for doing it. And I thought it was really cool that this young dude, who's now think about it, he's now 35. Uh, he starts this animal sanctuary, and he does everything based on trying to keep the animals safe and keep them healthy. And he's got like these capuchin monkeys, like Momo and JJ are where his first capuchin monkeys that he first got.

SPEAKER_04 12:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

And they can't be released in Africa. You know, there's some animals that can be rehabbed and released, like the capuchins can't because they're not native to Africa. They have to stay wherever they're at um because they're only native to the Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah. And uh, but I love it's really interesting. I was watching videos today, and this is what reminded me. I'm watching videos today, and I happen to see one, and he's talking about why the content he kind of had like this two-year delay in content. He went off, he got married, he's got two kids now. His wife is super beautiful. Like, oh my god, she's so pretty. But you know, he's just like, Look, here's the realities of doing this is I run Hakunami Paka as an animal sanctuary. It's not open to the public. Their address isn't even publicly known. It is not a published address for anywhere. But they spent all this. Yeah, it's like you can't know, you just know it's somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Kind of. But it's it's all kept private because they don't want poachers to come, they don't want film film crews to come, they don't, they don't do any of that. He is so particular about this annual sanctuary and how he gains money for it. So he spent the last two years refiguring out his financial purposes because he's just like, I know everybody sees me as a celebrity. First of all, ego much. But I don't see him as a celebrity, but I see him as somebody who's making a good impact. Um, but I don't really see him as a celebrity because anybody else, if I literally I've asked other people, oh, did you see Dean Snyder's newest video? Who the fuck's that? So obviously he's probably uh more famous in his homeland or you know in Africa. I don't know. He's internet famous. Well, he's so he's got 11 million followers, and he consistently gets two million views per videos that he does. Yeah, and he cannot make he can't pay the bills with that.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

I mean, if you have well, so I looked up what a hectare is. Uh-huh. Um, it's two and a half acres.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

So he's got a thousand acres.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah, which is a fucking lot. I mean, a lot of farmers are like professional farmers are like 500 acres.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Or less.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So well, it was interesting because he was just like, look, I'm never gonna compromise who I am. And I'm not just gonna, I guess that people have been trying to partner with him to hawk the brands and everything. He's just like, mm-mm. He's just like, I'm that particular because I don't want to one, do something I don't believe in, and two, I don't want to do it to where people are like he had a hard time sharing some of this stuff on the journey because he didn't want people thinking that he was like these other places that are supposed to be annual sanctuaries, but then to get by and pay bills, they actually let people come in and pose with the animals and shit. Yeah, so it was interesting to hear it was refreshing to hear somebody say, I'm gonna stand by my word, I'm gonna keep this sanctuary for these animals, but I have to figure out how to pay for it, because he pays for it all out of his own pocket. And he's just like sometimes you can tell he's mad when he's just like he's just like, I know I'm a celebrity, and everybody thinks that comes with lots of money, but that's not true. And especially not with how YouTube's changed how people get paid now.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah. I mean, they're constantly altering their stuff so that they don't have to pay as much money.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yeah, and I'm just like, you know, maybe there should be a different platform out there.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

I mean, there are other platforms. Just none of them have the same market share as fucking YouTube does.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah. I don't know. It was really cool. So I've seen a lot of the old videos till now, and I just can't believe how big some of these animals have gotten. Because one of the reasons he stopped putting out so many videos is he had a video that he put out when Leo was a younger lion. I think it was Leo, and the lion uh pounced on him during play and raked him over his eye with a claw because he got too rough. So the way lions like show that, hey, that's too much, is they usually like either swipe back, like punch back, or they hit their hands and he hit the lion's hand. And everybody's like, Oh, you're abusing the lion. Like, really? How is a 200-pound grown-ass man abusing a 400-pound lion? Let's think about this logically, idiots.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Yeah. He cut open my face. I slapped his paw. Shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah. Well, I thought it was cute because so his first daughter was born in 2024, 25, something like that. Because his second daughter was just born, but he's named his first daughter after his queen of the pride, which is Nyla.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah. I love some of I love the names he's got. Of course, the first the first line I fell in love with was Dexter, and you know why.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Same.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Does he do blood spider analysis? No, it's Dexter's Laboratory. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

But, you know, you'd think. Uh, but it was because instantly when he said Dexter, I wasn't thinking of Dexter the show. I was actually thinking of the cartoon because of the personality. Like he's got this little devious personality. But he's got this other lion. His name is Snow, and he's he's called Snow the Gentle Giant. And he's he's massive. He's massive. When he stands on his hind legs, he's got to be seven feet or better. He's huge. Uh, but it's it's so cool kind of watching all these animals grow up, and the fact that you've got this guy out there who's literally doing this for preservation, uh wildlife preservation, and they don't interfere much with the animals at all. Like they will a little bit here and there, but not much. Like uh Nyla, his female lioness, she uh had some kind of a communicable disease that kept coming up as mouth blisters. So I yeah. So they had to sedate her, and they had to cut the they had to do surgery and remove the affected area because it would just keep happening over and over. And as she would interact with the other ones, there's a possibility of her transmitting that.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

So it kind of sounds like the herbs, maybe. I don't know. It didn't, it didn't say other than a communicable lion disease. And all as I thought when I saw blisters and they had to cut her out, and you know, all that, I was just like, she's got lion herbs. That's all I thought, but uh yeah, it's really cool. We should watch more of him. I I personally like it. Like, uh, so like other other animals obviously die naturally on other parts of his land, okay, and they'll drag the bodies over. Like they had a zebra that died of natural causes and they took it over fairly quickly after death. Yeah, it was interesting to watch that one. Then lions was all about eating that zebra. Eat this donkey ass. That's literally where they start. They they literally start at the anus so they can work their way in.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Yeah, the a lot of times they'll like well, a lot of times the um organs are the preferred food.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Um, so yeah, they'll start trying to get to the organs first and then they'll eat like the legs or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Now they really like the livers and the heart.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Yeah. And I'm just thinking well, there's lots of nutrients in there besides just protein.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah. Well, yeah. I don't know. I just found it, I just found it fascinating and cool. And I'm really kind of surprised that he doesn't have more followers.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

As big as this planet is, only 11 million.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

I mean, not everybody's interested in fucking animals in the wild. Let alone African animals, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So I mean, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

I don't know, but but we got plenty of animals that need fucking saving here. Why bother with them foreign animals? And that's true everywhere on the planet.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

That's fair. That's fair. Cause I mean, I don't I don't subscribe to Dean Schneider because I probably will now, but I didn't before because I'm just like, I wasn't like really believing that he wasn't there just trying to like market or scheme something. Because so many other people have been like, Oh, I've created the sanctuary, and then they're gone in a year.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And you know, like, or you see like the the tiger blood winning, or you see uh, I was gonna say like the tiger king, yeah, you know that's what I was yeah referring to. Okay, Tiger King Slash liver king, where you know you've got those people in Florida, and they've just yeah, or you know Florida man, Florida, Germany, or Japan. Look, we gotta quit saying Germany, okay? Because they're our number one uh European listeners.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

So yeah, I love Germany, although doesn't mean that they don't have weird shit there.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Although Finland's coming in real quick, okay, coming in hot, bitches. I mean, just like I will probably make up a thank you because in one I don't know what it was. It was like literally we can track it.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

So I'd put out a thank you post to Germany for being um a number one in our European listeners.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And then I'd put one out to Singapore for being number one in our Southeast Asia listeners.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

What happened the next day?

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Vietnam.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Vietnam, baby. I sent you a text I went. And or two days later I sent a text, and out of nowhere, here comes Vietnam. And Vietnam is like, I don't know, I'm thinking they might catch up.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

They might catch up to fucking Seattle. I I can't say the United States, but they might catch up to Seattle.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

At this rate. But it's really interesting to me because I like looking at all the stats and everything. Because I'm like, wow. And I'm really excited because they're well, kinda. I think some of your friends just started listening in, like some of your other friends just started listening in. Because the one about like pen and paper role play has been doing good. Ugh. And then of course.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

I think only one of my friends has actually listened to any of our stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Well, when we look at the primary city, that literally, until you get way out in the boondocks of Pierce County, it all comes in as that.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Because that's um, that's a lot. Anyways, Dean Snyder. I hope people check him out because I think it's a good cause.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Keeping, you know, I mean, he took this break because of the backlash from disciplining the lion, the younger lion, so that he knew not to be so rough. He got married.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

The house they were living in on the sanctuary is legitimately was falling apart. So he had to, and then of course, like he said, he had to look at a longevity plan financially for Hikunamupaka because he didn't want to have to, he didn't want to ask anybody for donations, and he didn't want to have to partner with brands that he didn't thoroughly support because he feels that a lot of brands that want to partner are have an ulterior motive. It can't all be about money. He wants to save these animals and he wants to preserve them.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

So it's really cool that he's doing that. And I hope more people go and check him out.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Because I think that's pretty awesome. If he truly is doing what he says he's doing. But I think he is. I enjoy the videos where he's playing with the capuchin monkeys, and uh, I love it when he plays with lions.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I mean, it's super funny. He, one of his videos, he's recording there, and he's like, ah, Nyla thinks she's gonna come get me because Nyla's like obsessed with him. And um, you're like going, you're thinking as you're watching this video, you're like, what the fuck is he talking about? And then you can see what he's seeing on his screen because he's obviously recording as well, and you can see her barely, you can just see her eyes through the bushes, and she's slinking. And I just thought, oh man. And of course, I did see the video where the the one line was playing too rough with him, and I didn't see anything wrong with it. I'm just like 200-pound man versus 400-pound lion. If he crossed the line, the lion's gonna let him know.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

But, anyways, I I'm glad you know who he is because I think it, I think it's great. I mean, I'm not gonna, first of all, I'm never gonna go to Africa.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

I I don't, you know, a lot of people have this. I want to do this destination. If I can get there on a boat, maybe I don't, I just do not like flying. Not only does it make me want to vomit, but I feel really disconnected for a couple weeks after I fly. So I don't want to fly anymore. I have no desire to none. I don't have a desire to fly. So I'm not going to Africa. I ain't gonna I've I'll go to Florida if I drive. Next time I go to Missouri, I'm gonna drive. I'm not gonna, I'm not flying. I don't care. I'd rather see what's along the way. That's how we were, that's how I was raised.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

That's what I got to say about what's along the way.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Well, that's because the only flight you want to go is to Thailand.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Well, I've been to almost every state in the lower 48.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Um, I've not been to Texas or Arizona or New Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Sorry. I'm not laughing at that. I just had a song pop into my hell head and it was just not appropriate.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

About your ex is living in Texas?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

No.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Um, I've also not been in some of the Northeast states, like Connecticut and Maine.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Uh well, nobody should go to Maine because that's where Stephen King says all the bad stuff happens.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

I mean, that's why I want to go there.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Right. King versus goots. Get some lobster and some fucking uh have you seen those Northeastern Eastern lobster?

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Those they're kind of ginormous.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

And have you seen the guys who are actually fishing off of the coast of Maine? They have like this whole conservation program. And so you'll see these lobsters with all these notches mixing missing out of their tails, and that's how they identify that hey, this is a this is a uh a female to keep because she's an egg bearer. They held up one of the one of the videos I saw. I don't I don't know why I end up watching these animal videos because it's like what I also want to go to Solomon Island, which I don't know whether it exists or not.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Uh that's a reference to uh video game. Although they made a pen and paper role-playing game for it too. Yes, Secret World.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Didn't you oh Secret World? Hey, didn't you tell me about like you're super excited about one of your lit RPG books is doing something interesting?

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the so Dungeon Crawler Carl is one of, if not the most popular, lit RPG books. Um, it's not my favorite. I do like it a lot, but it's far from my favorite out of that category. So I'm kind of like, uh. But anyway, more power to the dude, Matt Denman, who wrote writes it. Um, because they yeah, they're they're making a pen and paper role-playing game uh based on the setting, and they actually are doing a Kickstarter for it.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

That's not the one where it's like Russian written where it's all no what's the name of that one that's like that? That's I don't ever want to read that one. That one sounds so sad.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

It's Play to Live by D Rus. Um, and it's it's maybe the very first lit RPG ever written. There's a little bit of debate about whether it was a Korean dude who wrote the first one or whether it was him that wrote the first one. Not quite sure. But it's the first one that I ever read or listened to. Um, and I love it, but it is very well, it's a Russian dude, and they're very good at writing. Uh, okay, you think good stuff's happening now, we're gonna kick you in the balls. Like Dr. Chivago, of course. Yeah, like every book, pretty much you're like, yes, he's winning. Oh, god damn it hurts. Like Charlie Shane.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Winning all my balls. Oh, Charlie Sheen, everyone's time he starts winning, something else happened.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

But I will say, if I had to pick a world to live in, that one is top ten.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Dungeon Crawler crawler call or kick you in the balls?

SPEAKER_03 29:53

No, the D Rust, the play to live.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

And the reason is because it's arguably less shitty place to live by a lot compared to Dungeon Crawler car. This doesn't require an apocalypse to fucking happen to be part of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Mm-hmm. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

And like later on in the series, um, so in the in the play to live, basically you're getting uploaded into a game, and then you're living permanently within the game. Towards the end of the series, they find a way to expand themselves outside of that game into other things. Um, so there's like crossover into other games and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Um in Dungeon Crawler Carl, it's a fucking apocalypse that happens on Earth, and basically a corporation shows up and takes over Earth.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

In the meantime, just murdering 99% of the population.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Uh well, I mean, what else are you supposed to do with them at the apocalypse?

SPEAKER_03 31:00

And then, so the apocalypse is kind of almost incidental.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

They kill the majority of humanity, and then the rest of humanity has to play a game. And the corporation is making money off of this game because it's a show. So the rest of the universe is watching humans get fucking murdered left and right, and they're cheering it on, basically. Um hence the reason I do not want to live in this fucking world is fucking bullshit. However, it's a fucking great series of novels, um, and the main character is kind of hilarious. It's also, I don't know, there's a lot of shit going on in it, and there's a lot of interesting, like I don't know. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on in the series, but once again, it would be utter dog shit to live in this fucking world. Right. Um, it's worse than fucking I I would say it's worse than Warhammer and Warhammer 40k, and those are fucking terrible worlds to live in. This is worse. Um, especially if you are like, okay, let's gamble on I'm going to go into one of these worlds. What I end up as when I go into this world is not up to me to decide. We're gonna roll the dice and see what happens, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

99% of humanity just died and didn't even get to get introduced to the game. So if you're in this world, your chances of even being introduced to the game to die in it uh is fucking almost zero.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

That's fucking brutal, man.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

So oh so so so Dungeon Crawler Crawl, Carl. Yes, is uh and the only reason why the name is so familiar for to me is first of all, you've talked about it, which is great. Um, but also I'm not gonna say who, but there is another uh content creator, and that's one thing they do is they show the books they read. And uh Dungeon Crawler Carl happens to be a line of the books they follow.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

And I'm just like, oh, I thought I didn't know there was more than one book.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Yeah, there's like seven books. I think I have eight of them. Um I I've not, yeah, the the last couple of books I have not listened to yet.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Um, but yeah, I think I've listened to like eight of them.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah, it's just it was crazy because it was just like it literally, you had talked about it one day, and then I think like a week later I saw it. And one of the problems I'm having with why I don't want to say the content creator's name is because I'm pretty sure their account got kyped, got stolen.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

No.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Because the whole name has changed and everything. And if they're in there, if they're in a dispute with somebody about it, I don't want to be, I don't know who's right and who's wrong. I'll leave it at that. But yeah, they they read a lot of books. Like I thought I read a fair amount of books last year. They absolutely blew they blew you out of the water, they blew me out of the water, they read over 600 books last year. I think um and I'm just like, how can you possibly read that much? If you're listening to them, if you're no, they're actually they're actually physically reading, they're physically reading them, and with the average length of book is 441 pages, it literally means that you are spending more of your time reading than anything else other than breathing.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

And that's I mean, if i if you're like that's where your source of content is, like there's there's a couple, well, there's one really um uh what would you call him? He's a content creator, but his content is all about fantasy and sci-fi books. Um critic, I guess is what you would call him. Um, and he just recently started Lit RPG, which is kind of funny because he was kind of like poo-pooing on it at first. Um, and then he uh did an interview with Alor not Aleron Kong. Yeah, um, the dude who wrote the Land series. Um and then he read Dungeon Crawler Carl and a couple others, uh-huh. And he really likes Dungeon Crawler Carl. So he's kind of turned around on his well, one of the things that he didn't like is that in most lit RPG, not all of them are this kind of strict in how they're doing stuff. Um, but in most of them you have actual stat sheets for the character, okay, just as if you were playing a role-playing game.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Because that's part of the what's going on in the settings is you're in a reality where that sort of thing is normal.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

So you can literally say, okay, I want to improve myself. You can literally look at your statistics and say, okay, well, I need to be stronger so that I can you wield this weapon because it has stat requirements.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Or whatever. Um, and so as I level up, I'm going to put stat points into strength.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

And so you have a literal fucking instead of saying, Oh, he got stronger, and just kind of hand-waving the explanation. Oh, he trained. Okay, yeah. He's stronger now. And he fights an orc and it's easy. Whereas months ago, before he started training, he almost died fighting a goblin. And an orc is superior to a goblin, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Um, instead, there's literal character sheets that you can look at and see, okay, his weapon skill went up, his fucking strength went up, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Um, and so he didn't like the idea of that. Um, and I kind of get it because I've never actually read one of these books, I've only listened to them.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

And so, and it can be kind of jarring when sometimes in between chapters, they'll do an update on the character sheet. So there'll be like character review, and then they'll go through and they'll read the stats. Um, and so that can be kind of jarring until you get used to it.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah, because all of a sudden it's like you're in this story, and then all of a sudden it's like, wait a minute, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

That would that would mess with me a little bit just for the fact, like, wait a minute, what?

SPEAKER_03 37:22

And that's and that's actually kind of a newer thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

I want to say, because in like the play to live, um, he doesn't really do that. Instead, what he does is because in play to live, the main character is actually playing a video game. It's just that he's been uploaded into the video game because he had a uh a terminal illness, and he basically finagled stuff to where he got forcibly uploaded into a video game to survive. Um, and of course, his body dies, but his consciousness continues.

SPEAKER_04 37:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

And instead of having a okay, here's a character review, instead, what happens is he actually goes through the process of updating his character. So when he levels up, he spends his points and stuff like that. So it's in it it's sort of integrated into what's going on instead of having a a chapter break and then here's the here's the character sheet. Um, I don't know, I don't know how they handled it in the book, in the paper book, right? Because I never read that. Like I said, I just listened to it. But um I assume that it's kind of more instead of just having a straight up character sheet, it's okay, we're upgrading this, we're upgrading that. Yeah, so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah, I mean it's interesting because when you were talking about Kickstarter and you were just like, there's this lit RPG, and they're gonna make an actual pen and paper roleplay game about it and stuff. And you said that hits out in the next couple of days where they're gonna open up the campaigning for it, where they're gonna actually start your campaign, yeah. And I think that's really cool. Do you you know when you look at that aspect, and then you said they're doing it with dungeon crawler carl, and you it's the most like one of the most popular, yeah. So wouldn't it would you prefer if they did it with like uh Aleron the lands?

SPEAKER_03 39:16

I would prefer the land. Um, I would say it would be more difficult potentially because the land is more open. Um what I mean by that is that the land is um it's a huge planet. First of all, it's bigger than Earth that this is occurring on, and the main character that you're following is just in one little spot. Um in Dungeon Crawler Carl, it's a whole universe, but the setting is focused down on Earth as a game, and it's kind of like it's kind of like Running Man, the movie Running Man. Oh, geez, Running Man.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

The original or the remake?

SPEAKER_03 40:00

The original. Well, I haven't seen the remake either really change much. Basically, you're just following the person as they run along through these events and through these levels of a game maze type thing. Okay, and so as a result, it would be easier because you're focused in on just this little aspect. It's basically a dungeon crawl. Um whereas the land, it's open. You can be anywhere in the world, although you only see a very small portion of the world because at this point it's only following one main character.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

Um so from that aspect, it would be more difficult. Also, the way that the character progresses is also more open.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Um, because you have like you have your skills, and leveling up your character doesn't necessarily level up your skills, you have to practice the skill. And so it's kind of almost like Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls, where you use your skills and that causes your skills to level up, and then those level ups cause you to level up your class. It's kind of like that, except the two are kind of independent of each other. Your skill leveling doesn't necessarily level your character, and your character leveling doesn't necessarily level your skill.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

They're two separate tracks that are being worked on simultaneously. Um so every time you swing your sword, you get a little bit of skill progression in your swordsmanship.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

But that doesn't necessarily in and of itself cause your experience points to go up. That is what caused you to level as a character.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Um, but when you level up as a character in in the land, you get like two um no, it's one. You get um one skill that you can add plus 25% to the level progression of the skill. So you can be like, okay, well, I I'm lagging behind on my shield work, and I'm a tank, so I kind of need that. So I'll drop an extra 25% in that and it will cause it to level up that much faster.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Um, and then also it's more complicated in that it has a system of um affinities, let's say, where you have let's say a natural knack for spell casting. Okay. Although that's even an oversimplification because there's different types of spells.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

But um, and then each type of spell you would have a natural inclination for each one.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

So your maximum level in a particular skill is dictated by your affinity. And most people have only a couple of affinities that they're okay. I'm really good, you're gonna be really good at running, but not necessarily good at swimming or whatever. Um and so that kind of limits the typical character. The main character that you're following, he has some special abilities um that kind of negate that limitation. Um and so he can effectively progress infinitely in all skills.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Um, but he still has to progress in them.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Um, it just means that he he never reaches a bottle, he'll never reach a bottleneck where he can't progress any farther. Yeah. Whereas most people, even if they have the maximum affinity, they'll only be able to get to level one hundred, let's say, in a skill.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

But the skills go above that.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

And you know, and it it's kind of like a good analogy for life like, yeah, you can grow up and get nowhere if you don't learn some skills.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Like Like a lot of people are just like, oh, these games are so unrealistic. Nah, not really. Because it you can reflect it back and just be like, Hannibal, you didn't get where you're at by not knowing how to read and not knowing how to walk and not knowing how to like everything is progression in life. So if you're able to look at your game ability like that, like, oh, it's just kind of like a natural progression in life. The more I do something, the more muscle memory, the more I learn, the more I become. Yeah. It sounds interesting, and I wonder did when you looked and you saw that they were gonna be dropping this uh starting this Kickstarter fun, did it say what the end date was for it? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Um I didn't see what the end date was for it. Norm, yeah, normally they have like um, I don't remember their maximum is 90 days.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Uh 120.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Yeah, I think typically they do like 30 or 60 days, something like that before they close the Kickstarter, and then if it gets funded, then they progress with it. If it doesn't get funded, then they cancel it.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Um, although a lot of times they'll have situations where they're like, okay, well, we didn't meet our goal, but we're gonna continue um with trying to produce this product because a lot of times it's a sort of testing of the market to see if it's a viable product. And obviously, if they meet their funding, and especially if they surpass it, obviously it's viable, at least for the immediate future.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Um, but sometimes even if they don't meet it, it still shows okay, it's still kind of a viable product.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

But we're just gonna have to find our own funding and then make it back once we sell the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

So out of all the Kickstarters you've ever supported, have any of them come to fruition or not come to fruition, or have you just lost your money?

SPEAKER_03 45:57

So you don't necessarily lose your money. Most times, if so, this isn't always the case, but nine times out of ten, if it fails, uh huh, they just don't charge you the money. Um, there are some that succeed and you still end up not getting your stuff. That does happen. Has that happened to you? It has not happened to me. Um, the only thing that I've had happen is so I I've kickstarted two, three projects. Um one of them was what I was talking about earlier, the fucking um uh Secret World, the pen and paper role-playing game version of the MMO. Um, I I kickstarted that, and so I I got um only did the digital copies, but yeah, I got the digital copies of all the stuff that they were putting out for that. Um, at least the initial stuff. I think they've done another one since, and I didn't participate in that because I didn't have a job.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Um, and then there was another one, I don't remember what it was, but there was another one that I did and I did the same thing. And then the third one, they ran into so they got they had a successful campaign and they even managed to meet a bunch of their stretch goals, which means that they went over what their basic requirement was to fund. And then they added additional things that okay, if we get a thousand dollars past our uh funding goal, then we'll add this content or we'll add this item or whatever, right? Um oh yeah, the other one was Monster Hunter International. Um and so that's why I have I showed you that coin. That's where that coin came from, is that stretch ghoul thing. Um the other one was a thing, I can't remember the name, it was like poggle or something like that. Basically, it was this little um digital character for using in like DD or whatever for on the table. And basically it was a little projector um type thing that basically you could load digital images onto it, and so this one item could replicate however many different creatures you wanted. Okay, um, because you just choose the picture that you want it to display, and then it's that creature. Um and so instead of having to get, oh well, I'm in this campaign, I'm playing a druid, so you get a little tree hugger person, and and then you use that miniature for that, and then oh tomorrow I'm playing a uh a Space Marine, so then you have to have a Space Marine model, which I have a bunch of.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

You can just have a digital display then, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

You can just have a digital display.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

And did you ever get that?

SPEAKER_03 49:03

No. So they succeeded in getting their funding, getting the funding, and getting stretch goals. But what ended up happening was so they were already at the point where they had um what I prototypes.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Um, but apparently the company that they had um gone through to number one, create the the schematics and all that for the device, and the company that they had set up to do the programming, um, and then the company that they had set up to do the actual manufacturing of the device, at least two of those three ended up changing their minds. And then one of the one who actually did like the um the schematics and stuff, um they backed out and then were like, we're not giving you your fucking schematics. So they had to go back and recreate the device from scratch. Um, and this was like two years ago, so it's still under legal recourse. Yeah, I don't know if they even bothered with all that, they just went ahead and hired somebody else to do it. Um, but there's still there's still no product.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

So you got charged the money? No, no, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

So I didn't end up getting charged the money, but I'm still like, I want this thing still. But yeah, there's been so much leave cool garbage in the middle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

And that's people humans can be just shady.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

You know, and that and that's too bad because it's what it's it's it's just it's too bad. That's why everything's going to AI.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Because you can't lie unless you're programmed to lie. You know, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

So that's really interesting. I hope that is tick carter uh Kickstarter campaign goes really well because I think that'll be something fun for you to do with your pen and paper group.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

You know, have you told them about it yet?

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Yeah, I mean, Jeremy talks about it a lot because he loves J Dungeon Carl Carl after I fucking told them hey, you should read this one.

SPEAKER_04 51:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

He's like, Yeah. So there's eight books.

unknown 51:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

Nice. I've read the last two.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

So yeah, I think uh I knew there was probably at least seven. Yeah. Because I'm pretty sure that that's what I'd seen on that one creator's thing was volume seven. Because it was like uh featured in their four favorite books of the month in like January or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

But and Jeremy's been getting them through the library, although he did end up buying physical copies of several of them.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 51:43

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

I mean, that's kind of cool. Like the the power of the people is really cool. And there's probably a lot more people who want to do things like this, but they're just not daring enough to try. Or they don't know how to try. And you know, Kickstarter is kind of a one of those things where it's it's literally like I said, it's like 30, 60, 90. I think it might be 120 days up to 120 days, but it's all or nothing with there. So you have to really think about what the consensus is in the world, what your target audience, what you think they can do, and what's a realistic goal. Because me personally, with it being limited, say you need to raise 100,000. I think I would do it in four stages and do stage one, 25,000.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

And these are our goals to get to stage two going to three to four.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Yeah. You know, but well, a lot of times, so one of the things that most people are betting on when they when they're actually supporting these campaigns is that there will be a finished product.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

Right. And that they will get the finished product. They're basically pre-ordering the product.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Um, and so what happens is the companies tend to not even bother with trying to run a Kickstarter campaign until they've got this stuff far enough along to where basically we just need this final push and we'll have the finished product.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Um, and so with games, especially, um, especially games that are just we're just selling a book, yeah. Not we're selling a bunch of fiddly bits or whatever. Um there it it's relatively easy to have, okay, we have everything done up to this point. We got all the writing, we got the rules, we got the artwork.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Um so now we just need the physical prints.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

Yeah, now we just need to be able to physically print the book. Although if you're in that situation, then realistically you can just go to um I can't on-demand printing.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

Um, print on demand. Uh so a Kickstarter isn't really necessary unless you still have some of those other elements like editing and fucking layout and fucking artwork. Um if you have everything else, being able to pay those professionals that do those specialist jobs um could be a like final hurdle that you need to go past.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Um, so doing Kickstarter is a good choice to enable you to do that.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

But you still also have to have um at least like a mock-up of what the final thing is.

SPEAKER_04 54:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

So like for for both Secret World and Monster Hunter International, they had um the artwork. And so you could see what the style of the art was gonna be when you actually got the book. Um with with both of those, they kind of had the benefit of previous um previous products because Monster Hunter International, there was already a role-playing game out for them. It was just that it was for um the hero system. And then with Secret World, they had all the art assets from the video game. And so, and I think they had a comic or something also for it. So they had that art assets that they could use and say, okay, this is what the stuff is gonna look like in the actual book.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Very cool. Yeah, well, I mean, it's uh it's been another good day for us. Yeah, and it's kind of interesting because I think what I've surmised from the last hour is we're wishing you the best of luck, Dean and Carl. Well, I'm I'm truly hoping the Kickstarter goes well for it because I think you'll really enjoy it. Yeah. You know, uh, you know, and I and I, of course, I'm secretly sitting here crossing my finger going, hey butcher, you know, maybe you want to do a Kickstarter for the renewal series. I'm telling you, the power of the fans.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Hopefully, everybody has a great day out there.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah, hopefully. Later.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Okay, everybody. That's all the time we have for today. So I want to thank you for stopping by to enjoy the conversation. Uh, we're glad you're here. And please share and share again and share some more. And if you haven't already, subscribe. We'll be having another chat and another cup soon. We'll talk to you then. Look forward to seeing you.