Guilty As Charged

**LISTENER DISCRETION ADVISED **

 Jen and Dagda pour a fresh cup and dig into one of the most talked-about cases of the year. After a health check-in and a behind-the-scenes update, the conversation turns to the Karmelo Anthony case — breaking down what the footage actually shows, the confession, the later self-defense claim, and the deeply divided public reaction. From there it opens into a wide-ranging discussion on justice, the history of punishment, accountability, parenting across generations, and how the choices we make (and the way we're raised) shape who we become. Honest, raw, and unafraid to say the hard things — this one's a heavy pour.

#podcast #consequences #mentalhealth #parentalcontrol #choices #accountability

Artwork:izafi

Transcript

Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Anyway, you ready to go? All right, let's go.

Health Check In

SPEAKER_02 0:36

They do because I like I said, I just I just seen a little blip of it, and I was just like, I would really love for them to full force come back because I think they have a good solid, they have enough time left in the series to see Judith have a family. There's a there's enough life left there. And I think Kaylee Fleming is probably the only, like, are they gonna keep her as the Judith character? Are they gonna find somebody a little bit bigger because she's a very tiny person and she's still even at 20 years old, she still looks like she's eight. I mean, even the movie she just did with Ryan Reynolds, I think she was like 16 and she looked like eight. On the one hand, she can play young characters, but on the other, it you lose a believability for, you know, like this character is matured, this character's grown up. We have this predisposition in our head when we see somebody who looks uh much, much younger than they are. We have that predisposition that that's creepy. So how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_03 1:37

All right, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

It's going fine. Are you doing okay? Yep, yeah, Mr. Skinny Minnie. You've now officially lost what 30 something pounds.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yeah, 30. I think well, it was saying that I lost 38 pounds, but split the difference, say 35. Pretty close somewhere in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yeah, yeah. And blood pressure's doing good, eyesight's doing good as far as you know. My eyesight's getting worse. No, so you need to get that checked out. Yep. Your uh blood sugar, there's the word I'm looking for. Yep. Blood sugar's doing good. Yep. Nice. I think it's gonna be time for you to have some glasses, huh?

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Hey, hey, I showed you my first white hair today that I found. I was so excited. I was just like, oh, I'm growing up. And then I was like, oh, I'm growing up. But I do feel good about it because everybody else in my family had you know some gray and white hairs by the time they were 40.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

So Yeah, like me in baldness. You're not my my grandfather was completely bald by the time he was 30, which is where you inherit it from.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Grandfather to mother to son.

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Or grandson or whatever. And I'm I still have three quarters of my hair.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

You still got a cul-de-sac going on.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Now you're gonna say that's three quarters of your hair. Maybe half.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Okay, even if it's fucking one quarter, I still have 95% more hair than he did. Right? At at fucking the age of 30.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Did so did he did he shave his hair like the Galottic eyes?

SPEAKER_03 3:10

No, he just trimmed, he just he kept it short, but it was still yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Did he tilt did he totally have the cul-sac? Or did he have a way back, or did he have a way back where it's like, see where my hands are, that's where the hair would be, and everything else is involved? Well, no, it's just the crown of his head was both.

unknown 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Yeah, I I'm gonna say half.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Okay, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

But you still have way more than him. Yes, which is great. And your hair is not completely white or gray yet.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Yeah, it's only that section right on both of the.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

It's uh like right above your uh, what do they call them, sideburns?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I think it I think it's really sunbleached, honestly. Yeah, we'll say that. Let's say that. Let's say that.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Sure or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Well, you do spend a lot of time walking.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

No, but anyways. Good. And they're gonna the big thing is the blood sugar being under control.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Because I'll tell you what, when your blood sugar is not under control, your attitude's out of control.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Is that what's happening?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah, you're grumpy or shit.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

You sure about that?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

No.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

I do not fucking notice it whatsoever unless my blood sugar is too low.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah. Well, I think what happens when your blood sugars, it used to be when your blood sugar would spike really high, your eyes would like dilate and you would start shaking. You would have this weird shake to you. Like the same thing that happens when your blood sugar goes under 130 is the same thing when it would go over 300. Your eyes would dilate and you would have this little shake to you. And at first for for years, I thought, oh, he's getting Parkinson's. And then it was just like, oh, this the diabetes is no longer like controlled by diet, it's controlling you.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

I never noticed any of that. Well, the only time, like I said, the only time I would notice my blood sugar is when it was like below 80. If it gets below like even in the low 90s, sometimes I'll start fucking feeling sick. Um but yeah, which is not normal. It's usually below 75 or something. Yeah. When people start noticing it. That's when I really notice it. But yeah, if it's below like the upper 80s, low 90s, I start feeling nauseous.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah. Well, what's really weird is a few weeks ago at work, one of my co-managers says, Hey, our employee seems a little weird today. What's going on? And I'm like, Well, what's going on? I'm like, tell me what's going on. And the individual also has diabetes. And uh, it was just one of those things where their blood sugar had dipped and they hadn't quite got it back up. But I was, I'd asked her, I was just like, Well, what's the person doing? And she described, um, seemed very lethargic, like having a hard time concentrating and seemed shaky. And I was just like, Well, you know, that individual is diabetic, so have we checked on them? And then it was just like, oh shit, I didn't realize. And I'm like, Well, that's funny because the big boss made sure I knew they were diabetic.

SPEAKER_05 6:00

So yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

It's it's everybody's a little bit different. I just, you know, as long as your Wolf Parkinson White doesn't take over and I have to take you somewhere to get your heart thumped. That's anytime I think of tub thumping, I think of that that experience. Tub thumping hearing the song Tub Tub Tub Thumping, I get knocked down.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Like you're the only you're the only person I've ever met in this entire world that has all these weird different health things happen to them. And you don't take it, you don't get angry, not outwardly, like where you're taking it out on people. I'm sure you do get angry about some of it. Because it's not, it's I mean, especially as young as you were diagnosed with some of it. You know, it's not, it's not fair and it's not fun that you have to be on these medications. You didn't do fucking anything wrong. It's your it's who your mom mated with, you know. That's their fault. But we we can't blame the dead, right? Or we can. Um, but for a while there, I did think that you had were gonna, you know, have Parkinson's and but you don't you take it very well. You don't um you're the anger's there. I can see it, especially when you're like, I have to go do this again, and it's just because it's overwhelming, it's time consuming. If you think about all the time you've spent in the last 16 years doing medical appointments to keep this shit under control and reined in and getting better, yeah. I mean, you could have listened to at least a hundred more audibles, 16-hour audibles of that. You've probably spent well over 16,000 hours on on appointments, not even phone calls, just at appointments. Anyways, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Driving to and from riding the bus to and from appointments.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yeah. I mean, hey, at least you're big one in Portland. You got to nap. I didn't, but you got to nap. That was a scary hotel, dude.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Yeah, it was kind of funky.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

It was just I it was dreaming.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

I mean, it was just old.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

And been renovated since like the 70s or something, maybe the 80s. Like the 50s, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Like there was a smell, and the beds were weird, and you know just Portland, Oregon. We stayed in Tigard, you weirdo.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Yeah, it's uh Portland. Yeah, it's essentially the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Sub of it's a subset of Portland, probably.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Tigard, Beaverton, all fucking Portland.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah. Well, anyways, uh you do really good with it because you're not outwardly bitter about it. You just you take it with a grain of salt, and it's a it's a good example for other people who have health issues they're dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

I mean, it's not gonna fucking solve anything to be like that.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Yeah, but you know, there's a lot of people like I literally, I have literally heard people go ape shit on the phone when somebody has told them, you're not me, but there was a a gal recently and at mid-30s, mid-upper 30s, she got told, yeah, you're in perimenopause. And she's she's bitter about it, she's angry about it. And it's just like it's life, it happens. You just you adjust adjust, you can't go out being a psycho to everybody about it. Yeah, you know, and it's just like this isn't right, and God done me wrong. No, God didn't do you wrong. It's your it's your body going, you know what? And and you know, people who take these uh like the different birth controls and stuff, especially the chemical birth controls that are like the hormonal ones that it's gonna change how your body reacts. Yep. I mean, like, do you really want to have another baby at your age when your child just had their first baby? Come on, you're already a grandma at your age. Come on. Anyways, so what are you up for today? Besides shooting the shit about health with me.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Uh, stuff.

BTS: Updates

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yeah, hey, we got a new hypnotic gifts we're gonna be putting out, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

You finally, I mean, you didn't punch anything, which was really good, but I was kind of worried that you were gonna be able to get that done.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Uh, it was just fucking having an attitude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Just like you.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

You know, it's it's like one of those weird things where so um we got we each individually got sick and then we were we took a break. Or we took a break and then we got sick. However, we're we're back, but everything has kind of fallen to the wayside because uh yeah, I was I was sick in bed for days. Yeah, and uh you weren't sick in bed for days, but it was there was not much uh energy left for you. And I I forbid anybody from coming to the house when I'm sick, I don't want them to get it. Yeah, you know, I I remember texting you being like, We're not working, no, we'll go away. I'm going back to bed. Good buddy, good night. Playing video games, and yeah, and you're so nice. It was like, oh, I hope you feel better. And I already know you're loading your video game and going, ha ha. Like, yeah, it it was insane. And so we're behind on everything. So hypnotic gifts, which we try to put up twice, twai.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Will we, will we, ha.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

We try, will we, will we high? We're hunting wabbets. Exactly. Um, so we're behind on on hypnotic gifts, and and that's okay because we kind of took a break, but the bad part was is I think I forgot to announce it on After Dark. We were taking a vacation, so it's just kind of sitting there, like in this pattern of what's going on. And I'm just like, you know, I'm not. People who listen to After Dark listen to conversations, so they already know what's up. Yeah, they don't generally speak. Generally speaking, because if you're only listening to one and not the other, you're a sicko. You're a sexually deviant sicko.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Big dick deviant's gonna get some comeuppings.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Yes, Cat Williams.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Unfortunately, the primary big dick deviant barely got his comeuppins.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Oh, he's getting some more comeuppings, he's getting sued, and he's getting sued, and it's gonna go to trial because there is a male child star, he was a child star when it happened, who apparently can unequivocally

The Anthony Case: What Happened

SPEAKER_02 12:00

prove that the R-A-P-E-R, oh, did I admit that? He's a rapper. Um, apparently, um, the guy's got unequivocal proof, and so it's not just about the money, it's about they want him to pay.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

And uh we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Unfortunately, did you see the um was it Carmelo Harris?

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Carmelo Anthony?

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Oh my god, like I don't know what to think about that shit. Honestly, like I saw some of the interactions, I think they both were kind of bullying each other, but uh like I the parents are worse. All the parents and the supporters on both sides standing out in front of the courthouse talking about kill Whitey and kill oh my god, what the fuck is wrong with these people? Yeah, I'm sure you've watched more than I have about it because it just breaks my heart. The uh the kid did it, yes, he murdered somebody, and he even admitted I I killed him, I didn't like him, I killed him. But now that whole is a retract mention statement.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Yeah. Um, the subset of the black community that is up in arms about all this um that are like, if this was a white kid, this wouldn't happen, and all kinds of other racist shit. Uh fuck those people.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

You and you know, and what's really interesting about it is my partner had actually asked me last week. He's just like, Do you see anything about this Carmelo kid? And I was just like, you know, I'm so on edge about it because where I work, you can't talk about this kind of stuff. Yeah, you can't talk about the president, you can't talk about the former president, you you can't talk about any of it because you're in violation of your contract of being uh impartial and open and understanding and accepting of everybody. Yeah. And um, so you know, I I just kind of I kind of I went, yeah. I was like, uh some of it, what's up? And he was just like, you know, he's just like, and he goes, everybody blaming everybody else. Why didn't they just watch the video? I was just like, so this is the hard thing for humans when they have somebody they very much love, they don't want to believe any ne'er do well that they did. They do we're we're in disbelief. Nope, that's fake, that's fake. Yeah, this kid, I think it may have started out as two top athletes trying to antagonize each other a little bit, like kind of get in each other's head, because that's what you do when you're in competitive sports, you do that. Yeah, we are taught to make sure they know you're there and your power. And I think it may have kind of started out something like that, and then the joking went a little too far, and one person was just like, nobody's gonna get away with talking to me that way. And then the other person, like you got you got the person who's just like, you're not gonna fucking talk to me like that way. I'm a top athlete, I'm a competitor, and it's one thing to rib each other, but it's another thing to go to the extremes that they did. And and then you got another person who doesn't want to look like a pussy in front of his friends, and it's just like you had forethought to do this because you left the area, you went and got the weapon, and you came back, and then you, yeah, you ran out of the area. Most people did because there was enough people there they could have stopped him, you know, if they had if it had truly dawned on them what was gonna happen, and then going right to the police and saying, Yep, I did it. I sure did, I sure did murder him. I killed him, I killed him. I shut his fucking mouth. So and it was funny because or sad, not ha ha funny, but sad funny, because my partner was just like, do they not get that this kid said he did it? And it's like there.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

And I thought all of his friends said he did it too.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

All of his friends, all the witnesses, all of the recordings show it. Yeah, show it like you can see, you literally can see from the recordings that I saw are these two top athletes that are just antagonizing the shit out of each other. And you literally can see the moment when one snaps. And honestly, if that kid hadn't snapped, I think the other one would have. I really think it would have been one or the other was gonna snap. And unfortunately, I think the person who probably felt under the most pressure because they were trying to get, you know, into that scholarship zone. I I think it happens. And um, and I looked at my partner and I said, you know, the sad thing about this is two men, two young men lost their life that day. Because no matter what he does, no matter if he was acquitted, he's gonna go to prison for at least manslaughter. Guess what's gonna happen? He's not coming out of prison. I mean, it's we have the most retali Americans. We are so, I will fucking show you, we're very retaliatory.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

I mean, back in the day he would be executed, he there would be no fucking now. We're soft, and so he's going to live. He's not gonna be happy about it.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

And that's and that's a scary thing. If this had happened 75 years ago or even 65 years ago, when you first have the school integrations happening, and you have uh this these cross cultures integrating together, um, you know, 65 years ago, it it it wouldn't matter if it was self-defense or not, nobody would have believed it. And it would have been if he would have said to anybody, I killed him, I did it, uh he would have been swinging by the end of the day. And that's sad. And I'm not a bleeding heart liberal like that. If you did it and you admit you did it, I think it's really sad that I think it's really sad when somebody does something like this and they say, I did do it, I did kill him, I lost control of myself, and I'm gonna do it again.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I mean, when you say those-I told him not to touch me, and he did, so I killed him.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah, because because that's the natural reaction. I told

Public Reaction

SPEAKER_02 18:00

him he was gonna respect me. I told him not to touch me, leave me the fuck alone. And it's just like, you're the one who invaded his space. Yeah, and I am absolutely not looking. I think if you take all color out of it and you look at the base information, you can't sit there and go, well, this is a black-white thing. No, it's not, yeah. It's an ego thing, it's an attitude thing, it's an entitlement thing. Yeah, because that's how we raise children now. Oh, you need a participation, Rebbe, because you didn't drown when you opened your mouth and looked up in the rain. Fucking for real. Yeah, no, it's a it's a sad situation because um I think I find it horrible and despicable that now when it's like once he realizes the concept, once he realized the consequence of what he did, he had no bones about it until his mom was like, you know, you're never gonna have you're never getting out of jail again. You realize that. So we can get you out of this if we pull this, you know. His lawyers, of course, come up with the self-defense thing. I I'm sorry, you you were actually bigger than the kid, and you're very I think the other dude was bigger than the kid. I thought my impression seeing the two of them standing was well, I mean, maybe girth wise, but height-wise, I think Hermelo was like an inch or two taller. I mean, they're pretty comparable in size. But I mean, I'll tell you what, there's a reason he's a track star. You see him run, like the stride on him was like a fucking gazelle.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Yeah, the video that I saw, I haven't seen like extensive videos. The the body cam footage that they recently released um was he ran a little bit and then he was walking. Meanwhile, the cop was walking towards him the whole time. Uh and the cop caught up with him because he stopped running basically and was just walking.

SPEAKER_05 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

And then some other people stopped him.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Um it's it's it's has Asm and Goldman to going over it.

SPEAKER_05 19:50

Yeah, he talked about it a bunch.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

It's it's heartbreaking. That's what it is. It's heartbreaking because we're living in a continuous fight or flight of life.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

And the powers that be want it that way, because then you're not paying attention to them being decades.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yeah, well, I mean, this goes back to the conversation about the indummoning has begun. The dumbing of down of society has already started. And I, you know, I kind of go back in my head whether it's too late or not. I really do. But at you know, 18 year old 18 years old, instead of being the bigger man, being the bigger person, and walking away, like, or you know, just knocking a kid out and good old right hook serves a purpose.

SPEAKER_05 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

I mean, come on. Um, when you feel your two choices are to uh be a quote pussy or kill somebody, if those are your only two choices in life. And you're living in the wrong place. You are living in the wrong century, in the wrong time, in the wrong neighborhood dimension, neighborhood, world, country, any of that. Man, fucking go. I mean, we're not in England, okay? We're not in England where you get shanked just simply for not waxing your eyebrows for being white, you know, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Uh you're called the racist, and then you bleed to death while on handcuffs. So my point, however, was that so there were no black jurors, and there's a reason for that, because all the black people who were called for jury duty said that they would not convict a black person.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Because they're fucking morons.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

They said I'm not, I would never put another black man in jail.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Yeah. And so obviously you can't be a juror if that's your attitude. Uh it kind of negates the entire fucking point. Uh so now there's a bunch of these idiots that are out there. I mean, from a strategic standpoint, it's a good thing. But from a fucking actual justice and intelligent fucking society standpoint, it's terrible. They're out there being like, oh, don't say these things out loud. It's like, okay. Okay. Yeah. Because now they're basically my point was that the puff daddy fucking outcome is a result of this type of behavior. Of this type of behavior, of black people being like, I'm not going to convict a black person, no matter how fucking obviously wrong they are. Um and so my worry is that when he gets tried on other stuff, the same outcome is gonna happen. There's gonna be a bunch of people who are gonna be sucking his dick, basically, and fucking be like, oh no, he can't fucking be wrong.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

I mean, so Diddy doesn't have more, excuse me, Mr. Combs doesn't have more money than God. Yeah, but he has more ways to get money than the average American. Yeah. He has friends in high places, he has friends that he has blackmail videos on, supposedly.

unknown 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

I don't care who you are. Rape is rape. Yeah. Coercion into sexual favors is still coercion and rape.

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

And and I know that that's this is normally a conversation where we would redact a whole lot. We're not gonna do that. Yeah. We're not we're not gonna do that because um it's uh it's not necessary. That just adds to the indummoning. Can you imagine the college, some of the college kids that like really like like our music stuff and our some of our movie stuff? And so one of them's listening to this to one of the ones where we've uh redacted or used other terms and they're making a drinking game out of it because that's what we do anymore.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

You know, so we're not gonna do that. Um, it's it's a really hard place to be because like uh, you know, I just watched the it's a Michael Jackson documentary about his uh 2003 um arrest and trial for child molestation. And it's really it was really interesting because you've got it's literally in 80-20. 80% of people completely believe he's innocent, and they're like, no, there's no way. But the 20% who think he's guilty, they hang on to stuff. Like, do you remember his song, Billy Jean? Oh yes. I mean, they are so just convinced. I'm not convinced that he did anything inappropriate with the young kids.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Do I think that he may have had relations with one of his assistants when his assistant turned 19? Yes. And because we spent 15 years working in and around porn, um, I'm like, I totally, I totally get older, younger, but not too young. Uh consenting adults, consenting adult, I totally could see Michael Jackson being somebody who may have experimented with sexuality.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Because, you know, he had his dad his whole life until he was like, what, fucking at least 40, telling him what to do. This is how you will act, this is how you will behave, this is what you do. Until he had his own children, he was living under, you know, he was following, still following his father's guidelines. So I can imagine that, you know, if you had a dad who beat you and said, You are not bicurious, you're not this, you're not that, you're a Jackson, and you will behave in this way.

SPEAKER_05 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

You know, I mean, he already had very what we would consider effeminate dance moves nowadays. Back then, we just looked at it, it was totally eclectic, it was totally different, it was artistic. But when you actually look at the way the body form goes, you find it more and more in more feminine type movements, the way the hips rock, you know, and all that.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

But anyways, his general appearance.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

He wasn't quite Prince level of a phenomenon, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Well, I mean, Prince was very open about his bisexuality at times.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

I mean, he he preferred women, but you know, he'd let a dude suck his dick. I'm like, but that's part of that's the part of the thing about being Prince, being Bowie, being Jackson, is that you have to have a little bit of enigma to you. You have to leave him guessing because if everybody just thinks A, B, C, D, that's it about you, you're cutting out a good percentage of well.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Part of the shtick was androgynous-ish.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah, I I think I think Michael really um, you know, I think that really when his hair caught on fire, like these a lot of people in his head. Um for Michael Jackson, it's just like I love his creativity. I I love everything about him. I never I never thought anything about him being so soft-spoken because I'm like, like, dude, if his voice had deepened, you know, duh, he wouldn't, we wouldn't have these high notes for him.

SPEAKER_05 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

You know, but I never thought anything about it because it's just like it's Michael Jackson, you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Yeah, I always thought he was kind of effeminate. Um, but I think probably part of that was because of his upbringing.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

And him basically being the baby, and that's what he that was kind of his niche, right? Was always kind of being the little boy. Something like that. He was really little when he started performing super cute.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

And that's just like you when you were little, you were super cute.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Yeah, I went way worse though than he did. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Uh it's there's so much behind these different stories. Yeah. Carmelo Anthony, and it it it breaks my heart that here's this kid who had all the potential in the world to be a world-class Olympian athlete, you know. Um, when you look at some of the videos of his performance stuff and how he can run. And to just let your rage about life or whatever, you just you never know. We were not there. We were not in his mind, we don't know. But the fact that his supporters want to sit there, and you've got you literally, I I literally saw pictures and articles of literally two sides of the fence completely white, completely black. And on the white side, you got hang them high, and on the black side, you got oh, we see the clan rises again, kind of attitude.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

And it's just like I mean, I kind of agree with the fucking hang them because all murderers should be fucking executed. Oh, god, you know, yeah. As long as it's not like um manslaughter, I mean actual fucking like murder murder.

Justice and Accountability Through History

SPEAKER_05 28:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Um, so it would be an extreme saving of money and everybody's fucking time.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

It's like $68,000 a year to provide medical and health care for all these locked up people. And I am a firm believer, and I know it's not right, and I know it's totally not P Sarah Lebraul. I'm a hundred percent firm believer of stick them in the worst state, build up the fucking walls, and just keep throwing them in. Let them destroy themselves. Yeah, you know, because you ain't gotta lick a sense to you if you think your way to get through life is to murder and rape people.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Yeah, I mean, one of the main purposes behind jail has always been remove the problems from society. Because, you know, the rest of society wants to just live their lives. They don't need douchebaggy douchebags running around raping and murdering people and feeling shit and hitting on your fucking sidewalk and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Yeah, I mean, we went we went from being where people committed crimes and they had proper punishments for it. Oh, you stole a cow? Oh, you got you gotta work for free for him for a year to pay for that cow if you can't pay the $500 for that cow or whatever. You you have to come every day after your normal job and and you've got to reimburse him. And we're watching now to oh, you robbed a liquor store and punched an old lady. Okay, well, you know, so we we went from these extremes of having equal punishment to where then it was just like, well, these motherfuckers keep doing it. So then we do more punishment, and it's just like, oh, we're gonna swing them from a tree. Yeah, like like people do not realize that it is a hard history in the United States where we went from being this country where it was just like we just want equal retribution. We it you have to make it square, you gotta make it, you gotta, you gotta balance the books to where it's just like, well, I'm gonna make an example of you and of you, and of you, and of you, and of you, and you, and everybody. And so then the more punishment. And I personally liked how they used to do it in Georgia. I used to do the chain gangs, chain them all together, and they did all the road work.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Yeah, I mean, there's problems kind of with all sort of disciplinary um actions, I guess. Like I was thinking about the ancient Greeks. Uh-huh. In ancient Greece and I believe Rome also, um, one of the main ways that they dealt with criminals was basically making them slaves. Although it was like a temporary thing, it wasn't a permanent thing necessarily. So, for instance, if you murdered somebody's son, um one of the sort of things that they took into account was that my son is my retirement program, basically. Because that's essentially the way it worked forever until we got to modern times. Your children were were your retirement. Um, and so because you removed my retirement, now you need to provide me with my retirement. So they would make them base essentially indentured servitude more or less.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I mean, it it's it's a line of that because it wasn't just a monthly stipend they had to provide, they also had to do the normal things that labor and stuff like that. Yeah, the labor the kid would do. So if they were a farmer or a goat herder or whatever, you're the one who's gonna have to do those things beyond. Plus, you have to pay your stipend every month.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

And of course, one of the problems with that though is that um there's always gonna be somebody who abuses the system. So then all of a sudden the person who should have worked for 20 years as a servant now becomes a slave for life, and their children are slaves for life because somebody fucked with the system.

SPEAKER_05 32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Right? And that is not cool. The the the idea of having somebody repaying you by labor is not that bad.

SPEAKER_05 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

But then having their children become slaves and shit like that, their children become slaves because of this is fucking ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah. Um and I know a lot of that has to do with the fact of if if it is deemed that um, so say somebody uh say you had gotten into a bar fight with somebody and you ended up breaking his neck. Because it was the only way to save your own life. So that's manslaughter. So you might get sentenced to you took away his retirement, so you might get sentenced to 20 years labor and 20 years stipend. But if you die in that time, they're still payment due.

SPEAKER_05 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

And and it's one of those things where now my children have to pay. Yeah, and they don't just say, oh, oh, he did it for 17 years, there's three years left. No, no, no. You have to do the whole 20 years. I gotta have all 20 years at once. Yeah. And it just becomes this reciprocating cycle of bullshit. Yeah. Because everybody wants is so many people want to use so many people to get ahead. It's like, listen, um, if Donald J. Trump wants to send me a check for uh all the taxes I've ever paid in my entirety of life as a good citizen who, you know, I'm not out committing crimes and and you know, I'm paying my I mean, please send it to me. I will happily take it because I am I'm sure in my lifetime I've probably paid almost a million dollars in taxes between my local taxes and my federal taxes. But don't sit there and say, um say I had missed my taxes one year and it was $400. Don't sit there and tell me, well, it compounds every month, it doubles until you pay it. No, that's just you trying to get one over on me.

SPEAKER_05 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

But yeah, no, the Camela Anthony thing, it's it's just the whole thing's sad. It breaks my heart. My partner thinks my partner and I don't talk politics, and we definitely don't talk much about current events because um you and I, even though we have uh our middle grounds the same, but our outliers are are kind of different. I'm I'm more tenderhearted. And I don't know how many times you're like slap you with the back of my hand, pay attention to what you're thinking. Um, I'm a little more tenderhearted. Yeah, you're not.

unknown 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

You're like, fuck them, Cthulhu, take care of this shit. Um, but my partner is like, you guys can have a conversation because your outliers are a lot closer to kill them all, fuck it. I just I don't talk about it much because it's like I don't look at just the fact that you have a young man who lost his life. You have another young man who lost his life. And beyond that, you have two mothers that have lost their children.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

You don't even got paid a whole bunch of money though.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

But that's what I'm saying is I I mean, um, you know, maybe that's the purpose for some people. I've never been lucky enough to have kids, and I've never thought that was the purpose of kids was to make you money. I've always thought the idea of having a child was so you have a companion as you go through life. Um, you know, mommy, hi mommy.

SPEAKER_05 35:22

Hi, mommy.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Mommy is, you know, one of my absolutely best friends, and and I'm thankful and grateful for her every day. And when my dad was my dad, um, you know, him and I were buddies for for years and years and years. And, you know, I've I've dealt, you know, and I feel bad for my siblings because I don't think they've quite dealt with it the same way I have. But, you know, dude, I did it for 30 years. Tap out. Yeah. Tap out, especially because the last probably since COVID, it's just been a lot worse. Um, but I dealt with all that.

SPEAKER_05 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

You know, and a lot of people don't understand that I personally have never seen children as somebody to do your chores, somebody to take care of you when they get over. It's it's somebody to be your companion and build memories with, kind of like your friends. You know, I mean, yeah, when you're a kid, you got to do things because mom's tired because mom went and worked a 12-hour day to put food on the table. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's it's it's a sad situation. But me personally, I'm a huge fan of somebody. So what I didn't like was I saw this clip about now he's claiming self-defense, right? Yeah. So I saw this little clip of now he's claiming self-defense, and he's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm totally it it I was defending myself. I didn't have a problem with him saying that. It was the smirk behind it. And it was the the audio clip that somebody caught, and he's just like, I'll tell him whatever, because I'm not going to jail for life over that asshole kind of thing. And it's just like, dude, come on.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

I don't know. I mean, I feel bad for both the parents.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Yeah, I mean, both of their lives just got fucked because of one person's fucking choices.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Um, although from the very beginning, the Camelo's family kind of treated this like a circus.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

Um, although although part of it was not necessarily the it was the influence from their preacher.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Um, because he basically wanted to be a new Jesse Jackson or some shit. Oh gosh. And so like they did the crowdfunding and stuff for their legal defense, and then they spent all that money on other shit. Like they bought a car and a really nice car, an escalade. And then they moved it to a new house and stuff. And so they ended up having a public offender.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

They got almost a million dollars, and they still used a public defender because the money they got for their defense was to better their lives because their son decided to kill somebody. They knew he was gonna go to prison, probably executed. I'm it's Texas. I mean, he's probably gonna get executed.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

I I don't think so. I think he's actually just gonna serve time.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

I don't think they've gave a sentence yet. I think it comes after the fourth or like after the fourth or fifth, four or five weeks after.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Yeah, I thought I thought he got 35 years. Maybe I don't know. I can be served.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

I literally I literally saw a clip of these this whole um, you know, hang them high and oh looks like the clans back in town. Kind of I saw this whole division of literally people, and and it's it's one of those things where obviously people are gonna say, Oh, you're just picking up on this because of your ethnicity. No, I'm actually not. It's actually recorded where they were recording these two lines, literally African and American, primarily on one side, a Caucasian primarily on the other. And the Caucasian is just like, this is not a black-white thing, this is a you know, human, this is a justice thing. This kid killed this kid. And the person over here was just like, oh, sure, it's it can't be self-defense. And they're like, How can it, how can you claim self-defense? When he walked up to them, it's like, oh, I totally killed him. He was pissing me off. Told him not to touch me. I told him to leave me the fuck alone, and he didn't listen to me. So I had to show him what was what. And it's just like, come on, but just this whole thing of it's I wish Morgan Freeman would have gone down there and straightened the whole thing out. And and I, you know, and that that's a little bit of humor there because Morgan Freeman's just like racism, you know. I yeah, it's it's it's not something that is within the hearts of most people.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

It makes me wonder how much of the of that subsect of the community is just uh unaware of what actually happened, um, and has been like, I guess, bamboozled by the fucking some people who are trying to make this a political issue when it isn't really. Um and how many of them know and believe what they're fucking

Taking control of your life

SPEAKER_03 40:00

saying. It's and how many of them are intentionally basically the bamboozlers, how many of them are intentionally fucking misinterpreting things uh for their own purposes?

SPEAKER_02 40:12

I I I I can guarantee you you you've got all these people going showing this video around, going, no, wait, now pause here. You see this? You see how his eyebrow raises? He was getting ready to lunge. That's why he had to jab him, and then his other eyebrow raised, and it wasn't surprised, it was because he was getting ready to hit him back. He jabbed him again. Those the instigators of violence, the perpetuators of violence, the perpetuators of idiocracy, yeah, need to be put on trial and do some hard labor. Because if you think about the rebitism, used to be so much different when the people who went to jail had to do hard labor. Recidivism. Recidivism, I always say the word backwards. Completely different because people go out and do fucking, like I said, I love Georgia. It's fucking hot and muggy, and they made these people work on the fucking roads. It was like, oh, you stubbed your toe yesterday because you're only got a four foot between you and Claude. Well, guess what? Yeah, Claude did his job, ain't my fucking problem. Do your work, shut the fuck up. Because if you if you don't have a fair punishment, if you don't have a reasonable punishment that's gonna make people think about, oh man, I don't want to drink and drive again because fuck, I gotta go fucking do six years in the pen bending over for Big Billy Bob. Oh you have to have things that make people stop and think.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

I mean, I know personally that I probably would have done a lot of bad things if I weren't more concerned about not going to jail than I am about doing bad things to certain people.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Here's the difference between our generation and many other generations. Our generation, we were thrown outside to the fucking wolves.

SPEAKER_05 41:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Make sure you're hung by dark. By the time that streetlight comes on, your ass better be in and you're gonna get chased me. Yeah. Many other generations, people are just overwhelmed and they're like, it's just easier to sit them down in front of a TV. Yeah. Lots of people, there are lots of people I have met in this life from other generations that can sit there and sing that. Tell me how you get down to Sesame Street, you know, their ABCs and their one, two, threes, they can't pass count past 12, they can't add past 10.

SPEAKER_03 42:23

Math is racist.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

And right. And uh if this one actually breaks my heart because I just heard this uh recently, and that is when you're growing up poor and you are only able to eat one meal a day, when you would try to sneak a snack, you'd get punched in the face. So it still sits with me at almost almost 30 years old, it still sits with this individual. That's why they only eat one meal a day. And if their child says, parents, because I I'm not gonna reveal, you know. Mommy, I'm hungry, daddy, I'm hungry. Um, this person will give up their meal for the day. But if they've had one bite of it, they've had a meal, and they're afraid their parent, even at their age, if their parent hears about it, is gonna punch them in the face. Oh wow. And it breaks my heart because we have literally taught what's supposed to be our future. Jack shit. Jack. It's the 80-20, it's it's Pareto's law. It's always the Pareto's law. It's always gonna be that. 80% of Gen X kids, they're fucking tough. But because they were raised tough, they're like, oh, I don't want my kid to feel like that. But then you got the other 20% of them that are like, ew, daddy, put the fish on the hook for me and buy me a Big Mac. And daddy just went, Wookiee, well, no problem. You have all these other little social issues. Absentee father. Oh well, I I hate to be that cold hearted about it. I'm angry because I grew up without my dad. Really? Because I have a best friend who lost his mom at five. Years old and you don't see him walking around punching bitches in the face. You're all whores. You're all whores. I don't know. The indumining has begun. I don't like it. And I I don't I don't I don't know. I don't know. I I just I that whole Carmel Anthony situation. And it's just like, and it's funny because I can't remember the other kid's name because oh as I keep getting slammed with anytime.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Yeah, say his name.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

It's like Wilson is his last name or something like that. I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Like for fun, it's funny. I want to say Casey Wilson, but I don't think that's right.

SPEAKER_05 44:34

No.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Um, but you know, I feel horrible because this kid is now infamous because he's a legend to people his age, because he was a badass. He walked in, he shut that motherfucker up, and he walked out and he pimped, he owned it. He was so pimp. And this is not something I'm quoting from an African-American community. This is actually a clip I fucking saw on Facebook of white people. He's so gangster, he is so badass, he's so hot. He just walked in there and he put that boy in his place and showed him what was what. Ooh, I want to have his babies. Listen, Cinderella, you want to have his babies? I'll tell you what, he'll fucking choke you out by time. The first time you say, Ooh, daddy, you don't make enough money. Sorry, I hate stupid people. I just want to punch them all. I I hope Asmund Gold just tears his ass apart online. Yeah. I mean, really, and I hope he really shows some of these video clips of the supporters that are just like, oh yeah, no, he was under duress. He had to say that he was scared because it was a white sheriff or whatever the excuses to why all of a sudden he was claiming self-defense.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Yeah. I mean, the cop was extremely calm and fucking soft with the dude when he arrested him. Um, he wasn't yelling or anything like that. He's just like, okay, put your chance on your back. We're gonna have to hold you for a bit. Because at that point, the cop didn't know exactly what was going on. Yeah. So he was doing exactly what he should have done, provided the the suspect was behaving themselves, right? And he was, he was I mean, he choked up a little bit when he first said that he I told him not to touch me, and he did, and he I showed him, basically. Uh and then after that it was more calm, uh what he was saying. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yeah, and then and then you see stuff now, several months later, a year later, whatever, and he's cocky about it. I told him not to touch me. Yeah, I was literally, I saw him standing behind a lawyer guy, and he was just like, I was in fear for my life. And that's a liter look at my face. I was in fear for my life. That tone, that dismissive attitude, the eye rolling, the eye rolling, and the smirk on his face. And it was just like, I don't know, uh, you know, it's it's why I don't want to do jury duty because I am very there are certain things

Accountability Lost

SPEAKER_02 47:00

I'm very black and white about. And my partner still thinks I'm a you know, a D DL psycho. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm social, it's okay, I know the difference. I just don't fucking care. Um, but it's really hard for me when you do these studies and and you watch this and there's all these little warning signs, and it's just like, dude, you don't care. You got your 15 minutes of fame, you don't care, you set mama and dad up for life too, and you just don't care. You're gonna be out with plenty of time to still have a family and live a life. This guy never will.

SPEAKER_05 47:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

I mean, if it had truly, if I had truly seen any videos where it was anything besides, like I said, what I think started out as kind of just egos trying to get in each other's heads. If I if I'd seen anything else, I'd have been like, you know, you know me. I would be like, fucker got what he deserved, but I don't, I didn't feel like that. I just feel like it was unnecessary. It was un yeah, it was like unnecessary roughness. It was just, it was, I I agree with the initial assessment that people thought he was coming over there to try to get in their heads and try to figure out what their game plan was. Because the first time the news broke, it was uh, you know, Texas, you know, track star stabs, another in self-defense, trying to get some clearing from the and was bullied by all these boys, blah blah blah blah. And it was like none of anything you're saying is making sense. And then you see the video and it's like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, like you you left your team and you went over to your biggest competitor and you were antagonizing them. Yeah, that's the way it looks to me, anyways. And I'm I'm a dum-dum, so you know, whatever. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

I just um he went someplace where he didn't need to be. He stayed there after he was asked to leave several times very politely, and then he got in uh verbal arterication and stabbed somebody. Yeah. When he could have left at any time.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Yeah, I'm like, there's something behind it.

unknown 49:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

And uh, you know, it's just like uh, I don't know. I'm not a vindictive person per se. Sometimes I'm a petty penny, but not much. And all I think is I hope you drop the soap in the shower once. Just once, just once. I hope you drop the soap. Because you're you've done you're you're fucked. Yeah. I don't know. Anyways, uh, yeah, I I yeah, my partner and I can't talk about it because he would sit if he was sitting here with us today, he'd be like, That's right, Dag. Do you fucking tell him they should have strung him up and swung him from a tree and used him as a human pinata because he didn't need to be there. Yeah, he made choices to antagonize the situation and make it worse than it needed to be.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

And instead of leaving, he stabbed somebody.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah, I mean it's really weird because there's this eerie, almost, ain't nobody gonna tell me what to do.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

To it. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Oh which makes it way worse. At any point he could have left. Um if you are the type of person that's going to do that in fucking broad daylight, what are you going to do when nobody knows what you're doing?

SPEAKER_05 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

I mean, maybe his ego just got the best of him at that moment, but and teenagers are fucking stupid. Um yeah. But nevertheless, he takes a certain type of person to do what he did.

SPEAKER_05 50:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Because the overwhelming majority of people are, even if they say they're going to kill somebody, are actually unwilling to kill another human being, actually unwilling to intentionally harm another person in any serious way.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

It's like a really high percentage of people.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Yeah. So to be in that situation and do what he did, he had to be on the short end of the special kind of people.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

Yeah, he he's he's a hundred percent on the socio side of people, where oh, I'm sure that's not what you wanted me to do, but uh that's what I wanted to do, and I'll tell you whatever I want to tell you, and it's how it is. Shut the fuck up and accept it. Now let me go on about my day. Yeah, and I'll tell you what, those are the ones that they scare me more than psychos. They scare me more than the Ed Kempers. And I don't know, do you know anything about Ed Kemper? Ed Kemper was known as the is known as the co-ed killer. He's actually somebody in the 70s that worked with the actual people that are behind like the BAU, the behavioral analysis units and everything. So the you know, you hear about Mindhunter and you hear about the original guys. So Ed Kemper, and I've heard the actual audio recordings, and it is creepy as fuck. He is very matter-of-fact. He will fucking tell you, oh, I absolutely know it's wrong. That does not matter. I will do what I wish to do because it is my world. This guy killed or attempted to kill his grandfather. They put him into a fucking nut house when he was a teenager. He gets released back to his mother, and his mother was one of those uh I think they call him her an intimidator. Like she would use everything against him, like, Ed, you're so wrong. Well, his his mom. And I actually heard the actual audio to it. So Ed Kimper kills his mother, cuts off his head, and does force fallacious with her dead head. And he says, Do you know what kind of strength you have to do to be able to force your way through the seized muscles to form to perform to completion? Wow. Ed Kimper is fucked in the head.

SPEAKER_05 52:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

But he he owns it. He 100% owns it. He goes, Oh, I 100% knows this isn't right. But here's the reality: you put me out in society and I will do it again. And there's all these little tells we all have because anybody who tells you I'm reformed and I won't do it again without great doses of psychotic medication is lying to you. They are playing you for a fool. And he, you know, when you listen to Ed Kemper talk, he'll he'll tell you that most serial killers, most people who go and they kill people, they are in this 3% group.

SPEAKER_05 52:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

And the ones that have who show remorse are lying to you. He was just like, if you, and he ed, and it's really interesting because it's so creepy and it fits with this so well. If you know you shouldn't do something, but you don't care because you want to do it, because that's what serves your heart, that's what serves your happiness, and you do it, it's gonna happen time and time and time again.

SPEAKER_05 53:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Because if you have another way to get out of the situation and you choose not to do it because what you want to do is to stab somebody, you will make sure it comes to that conclusion.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

Yeah. I'm curious as to whether or not there were other kind of signs before this. Like, did he bully other people?

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Um The only thing I saw about him prior to this was he was a very quiet person. He was not highly social. He was he was not temper, obviously. Yeah. Anthony. Um, that's the only thing. I mean, it's been a mixed bag of reports, like he was a great student, he was a great athlete. And but then you hear the other side of it is that he was kind of quiet and kept to himself. And he had been bullied when he was younger. Okay. That listen, I'll tell you the same thing I tell plenty of adults now. And it's something you have to come to the conclusion to really fucking quickly and accept really quickly, or it will fucking wear into you for a very long time into your adult life. The things that happened to me, the things that happened to you when we were children were beyond your control. As an adult, yeah, 18-year-old as an adult, as somebody who's older, you're way more in control of your life than the things that happened to you when you were 10, 11, 12, 13, 14.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

You start getting a better sense and control of your life by the time you're 17. By the time you're 16, especially boys, you generally will start standing up for yourself more if you've been bullied.

SPEAKER_05 54:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

You know, like a lot of guys, like they'll take boxing classes or they'll start, you know, hitting back or they'll start running their mouth. But I don't know. The sooner you accept things that happened when you were too small to make a difference and understand you are now more in control, the better off you are. It took me a long time to figure out the let go of shit that happened when I was a kid. I mean, I think you were seven when you learned how to let go of shit.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

I think you started, I think, I think the conversation we had about it was once you discovered uh self-hypnosis, it really changed your life. And that was when you were 15, 16 range?

SPEAKER_03 55:28

No, it was 14.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

14. So again, you're right in that range of coming out of being bullied or being a bullier into okay, I'm starting to grow into adulthood and start thinking for myself. And I can and and it's so true, you are so way more in control of yourself once you think about it. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, he's guilty, he did it. I'm sorry for anybody who thinks it was self-defense. It was uh not even close, not not even self-defense would have been when five of them jumped off and he had He-Man strength and just started stabbing them all, yeah, not targeting one individual and continuing to target one individual.

SPEAKER_05 56:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Because that that's the thing that like people aren't thinking in this whole equation. There was a group of people around him, yeah, trying to stop it, and he kept going after one kid.

SPEAKER_05 56:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Are you kidding me? If I was being bullied or whatever, first of all, if I could get out of the situation, I'd get out of the situation. I wouldn't come back to the situation with a weapon and be like, go ahead and make me, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_05 56:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

No, guilty. This is why I can't serve on a jury. My biggest fear is of doing jury duty is I'm gonna go and I'm gonna see somebody who's stolen from one of the retail jobs I've had, and I'm just gonna look right at him and go guilty. Nope. Shut the fuck up, guilty.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

I think I could still be impartial. I can't. Um, even if I like if if there was somebody, because here's the thing: I'm more interested in justice being served necessarily than like getting revenge or whatever. If I want to get revenge, I will do that personally. I don't need the fucking system to do it for me.

SPEAKER_05 57:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:07

Um and so, like, if I see somebody that I know stole from my job, let's say. Okay. And there was a court case with them in it, and I was gonna be a jury member, but it was something completely unrelated, and the evidence came out and showed that they weren't guilty of this particular thing, I would have no problem saying they're not guilty of this particular thing. I would I would point that out. Yeah, yeah, I mean But I would say in this instance, it's not their fault. They didn't do this.

SPEAKER_05 57:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

That doesn't mean that they're not a piece of shit and I don't fucking hate them. However, I'm more interested in people being exonerated for things that they did not do. Yeah, that's fair, than I am seeing them punished, especially if it's something that they didn't do. Yeah, because that's just not right for anybody.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

It's and it's not. I I agree. I have that ability to look at those facets and everything, but I, you know, I also know that I also know me that I would be praying the whole time, even though I do have that ability to be impartial and be like, let's get to the truth of the matter, because I don't want you going for to jail if you didn't do this. Yeah, that's not fair. I would rather see you, you've been in you've you've already been in county jail for nine months, because I think it's like an it's nine months to a year before you can get into the courts for the most part. Yeah, depending upon depending on what the offense is. And and I'm like, you've had time to clean up and sober up and and all of that, and you're on this momentum. And if you didn't do these things, you need to be given this opportunity to restart your life. But if it was shoplifting, like it's so it's so stupid. Shoplifting in our state, it has to be like over a thousand dollars for it to be. And it's just like, and there's so many arguments like when people steal from thrift shops or you know, this, that, or the other. And it's like the reason why it's not more of a punishable offense, like you know, with community service, since COVID, we don't do community service anymore, hence why we look like a big trash can everywhere.

unknown 59:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Um, if I would I'll be very specific. If I went into a trial and they were like, this person was part of a shoplifting ring that hit Nordstroms and Macy's and everything else for more than a thousand dollars a day. If it was somebody that I had seen stealing at any jobs, I would be the first motherfucker to stand up and go, guilty, bitch. I saw you steal that dress and those two pairs of Nikes. Guilty, guilty, guilty. And it's not because, um, it's not because I don't think that we can be fair and impartial. It's because I've seen time and time and time again, whether it's from the local police or the local community, where it's like, well, you know, they're a drug addict who lives in a tent down the street. And, you know, they're they're really, you know, I mean, it's your own fault if they stole your $300 bike because you forgot to lock it one day while you ran in the house to go take a crap instead of shitting your pants in public. So really it's your fault. It it was a crime of opportunity, and you gave them the opportunity. And and and you know, don't you, you know, you gotta feel bad because you know, their mother was an alcoholic, so they thought that's every excuse in the fucking book except for they decided to sit up one day and start being accountable for their lives.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

And I have a problem with that. We've talked about accountability before, it is a hot button for me. Um, my one of my co-managers and I were speaking about an employee that we're having some challenges with, and I'm listening to everything that every one of the co-managers and big managers have to say about it. And I've looked at them and said, I agree with these points about this employee. However, when I've spoken to him, he has a thousand percent been accountable. He has looked me dead in the face and said, I'm accountable for not doing anything today because I'm angry and I don't know how to get past that. I tried to talk to co-manager A and co-manager B and co-manager C and big manager D. And it didn't matter because nobody would take the time to listen to what I'm saying. And so I'm angry. And it's just like, so so for to me, when they tell me, when somebody tells me I have fucked up and this is why, and I don't know how to get past it, you either de-escalate the situation and teach them how to be better, or you pile onto it. And I am not, uh I have told my big boss a hundred times, I'm like, I don't have a problem having a conversation with somebody when they've done something wrong. I said, having a bad day, I'm not just going to assume they're lazy. I can spot lazy from a fucking mile away. The people who I see put in the work and the effort to be better, I want to do better. I'm a positive reinforcer. I have a gal who does one very specific thing, and she's not very fast at her job, but she's fucking accurate. She everything she does is accurate. It's just she's slow. And I don't sit there and I don't get caught up in quantity. I look at quality.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Right? That's what's important to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

And so I said to this individual a couple of weeks ago, I was just like, you know what? I know that you feel like you're still struggling with your numbers and everything, but I have to tell you what I'm noticing. Yes, you're only 10% faster putting out 10% more than you did when you first started. I get that, that's not a lot. But the quality has gone from shaky to I've literally had people been checking people out in line, going, oh man, I wish I would have seen that. That is a great quality at a fair price. So I I look at the overall performance.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:43

I can't, yeah, I can't be a juror. I don't think, and it's not because I don't know how to be fair, it's because I've seen way too many faces and I'm so tired of everybody's excuse. Well, mommy was a drug addict and daddy was in jail. And I I grew up with divorced parents, and I had a stepdad who was an alcoholic. Um, so now what? Uh nobody paid my bills for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:06

I had to pay for my one of the problems we have is that for at least one generation, probably two, maybe even three generations, we've not properly taught people on how to properly behave in public. Yeah. For one thing. Um, how to take accountability. And for the most part, um that needs to be instilled in you when you're very young. Yes. Um, like seven or eight, I think, is the kind of the cap of the Yeah, I think nine is your cutoff for teaching people how to navigate their moral compass. Yeah, and if you don't, then they're gonna be problems, they're gonna have problems, and they're going to be problems for the rest of their life. Yeah. The chances of them correcting is very small. Um and so we've basically failed as a society.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

Uh, all of these people. Now, at the end of the day, they still need to take responsibility for their actions.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

And it's more or less a choice that you get to make every fucking time you do something, whether or not you're gonna take responsibility for what you just did or what you didn't just do. Um but the sort of inclination of people is to do whatever they learned when they were young. And so it can be difficult to adapt, let's say, oh yeah, as adults, but it's not impossible. And it's a choice that you basically everybody has to make for themselves.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:44

The problem is, however, is that um you should have been taught that it's a choice you have to make for yourself, but at a certain point that choice is going to be taken away from you if you prove over and over again that you can't be trusted

The Verdict

SPEAKER_03 1:05:00

to fucking do the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Yeah, what's what's it called? Like helicopter parents, and then there's all these different kinds of parenting styles, and it's just like Will Smith, Jada Pickett Smith, you ruined it for everybody, okay? Being like, my child since the age of six has been able to make their own choices. I don't care, they're deciding for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

I'm gonna ask my five-year-old brother I should pay the IRS or not.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

Well, yeah, it it it is about it, it is about teaching people to be accountable. And again, 80% of Gen Xers are are very much like us. They're they're smart asses, they pick up. Have I had help over my lifetime? Have I been given opportunities that are maybe not they're not the opportunities I would want, but they're the opportunities that suit me, like my housing situation or whatever? Absolutely. And am I appreciative of it? Yes, yeah, and it's just like I'm not gonna say it every fucking day of the week for the rest of my life. You know, I I I say it enough. You know what I'm saying? But it's like it's you can't be going. What's that old song? What about me? It isn't fair. I've had enough and I want my share. Can't you see? You can't have that. You have to be willing to compromise. You have to be able to, you can't go, oh, oh, you have this opportunity for me, but I have to pay for it, even though A, B, C, D, EFG, whatever your excuses. Like, look, you take your opportunities, you weigh your factors, and you have to be accountable.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

I think we even have an episode about accountability that didn't make it to error because I was raging. I was raging. And it's what's astounding to me, what is astounding to me is my manager and one of my co-managers is very much older than me. A little bit and then much more. And then one of my other co-managers is right around my age, and another one is younger than me. And what astounds me is all of them have been doing retail for decades. Well, one decade for the youngest, up towards four decades for the oldest. Okay. And it astounds me. The first time we all had a meeting together, and a big boss said, I don't know who's doing this. And I just raised my hand and she goes, Oh, you have a question? And I went, Oh, that was me. I just kind of did what I did in my old shop because nobody instructed me otherwise. I apologize if that was wrong. Tell me how to correct it. And all three of my other co-managers, their jaws drop and they went, What? And I was just like, I told you during my interview, I will hold myself accountable. You don't have to backdoor it or sneak around the bush. If you think I did it, I'll fucking tell you if I did it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

I said, You will never find me be that person being like, oh, nobody witnessed anything, so I don't know. Fuck that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:40

Yeah. I had a situation come up at work the other day where somebody put out a product, and I won't go into description because it's kind of gross. But somebody put out a product that should never have been put out on the sales phone.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:56

Given the condition it was in. And when they did, they put one of my labels on it. And one of the managers left it on my table with my name on it. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? And then they came and asked me, well, first somebody else asked me, and I was like, absolutely not. I would never have put that out. First of all, I don't think I would put that type of album item out to begin with. Um, let alone one in that condition. And so anyway, then the manager came over and I was telling my coworkers before she asked me this, I was like, I will fucking kick somebody's ass over this. Because there's no fucking way. But anyway, so she came over and she asked me, she's like, Did you put this out? And I'm like, absolutely not. Just like that. And I'm like, there's I'm not fucking joking around about this at all. There's no fucking way I put that out. And she's like, well, it has your label on it. And I was like, well, somebody took my sticker and put on there because I would never fucking put this out. And then later on, somebody else put another one of those items on my table. Although this one was brand new, still in the fucking package that it comes in. And I'm looking at it like you motherfuckers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:15

Did did anybody admit to it?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:16

Um, I think, well, there were a couple of people that said maybe I did it. You know, there was maybe they did it, but nobody was like, oh yeah, I remember putting that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

Yeah. Well, yeah, it it's it's really interesting because the other thing that happens in your industry is it might be something that you had put out in the morning. Let me tell you what, from the time your door is open to the time your doors close, you have people coming in moving tags around all fucking day long. Yeah. Uh I I literally at my shop, I had an employee come up to me and go, I think this is wrong. And I'm like, what? And she goes, Isn't this sporting equipment? Um yeah, and she goes, Look at the label. I was like, Well, the price is right, but there's something wrong with the label. And she was like, Yeah, it says toys on it. I was like, Oh, good catch.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:58

I mean, sometimes,

The Wrap Up

SPEAKER_03 1:10:00

like sometimes I will fucking put the wrong labels on stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:04

Because I have like my label, I print pre-print out my labels, yeah, and then I put them in their category, and then by price. Um, and like it starts at the lowest price, and the back side of it is the highest price because the lower prices are the ones I use the most. And so they're like $3, $3, $3, $3, each of different categories, but they're all $3 in the front.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

And so sometimes I'll grab the wrong one.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

And sometimes I won't catch it, and so it'll be put out like that. That happens sometimes. Or sometimes I'll catch it, and they'll be like, fuck, no, I gotta fucking reprice all these, um, or relabel them all. Uh, so that happens sometimes. Yeah. Um, and then there are a bunch of in in where I work, there are a bunch of things that are like, okay, well, realistically, this is electronics, but it's also housewares, and it also could be considered hardware. It can fit in all three of those categories. Yeah. Also, um, this is a toy, but it's also a hardware item. And so sometimes there's confusion as to what category it actually should go into. Yeah. And so then you just choose one and put a label on it.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:17

Uh and the funny thing is too is that we have quotas. We have an overall quota, but we also have a quota for each individual subcategory. And so if you're concerned about that, which most people aren't, occasionally I am, because they'll put out a list of okay, we've made the quotas in these categories, so I will focus on the categories that we haven't made the the quotas yet. Yeah. Although most people don't bother with that, but I do, um, which to my own detriment, because then I don't meet my quota for the day because I'm focused on the specific. Trying to find the specific one, yeah. And ignoring the others for the most part. Yeah. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Yeah, it's it's crazy. This this yeah, it's crazy. And and I know we gotta wrap up because we're I mean, we don't give a shit about being long-winded, like, fuck off, who cares? But Carmelo Anthony, he he was found guilty. Yep. Um, he was definitely guilty. Video showed he's guilty. Making excuses because you don't want something to be true is not being true. Yeah, it's not true to the victim, it's not true to either family. Yeah, it's literally just trying to write this narrative to make an excuse for your poor decisions or your poor behavior. Yeah, so shame on you if you're supporting that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Also, shame on his parents. Yeah. Because part of the reason he's in this situation is undoubtedly his parents. Yeah. I mean, he made the choice, so it's ultimately his fault. However, his parents should have taught him better.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

Well, and and and what's so wild to me is that they used a gofundme that was supposed to go for this defense, and then they used it for personal gain, which by the way, just in case they're not aware, they actually can be sued for that. Because the rules and restrictions for GoFundMe is when you use a go fund me, it is the the funds are going to be used for that, and you are willing to provide a receipt to the people who are basically paying for it. Yeah. So, you know, good luck, Chuck, on that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:12

Oh man, I kind of wish that I had fucking donated so that I could sue them now.

unknown 1:13:16

I know, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:17

I don't know. Accountability, we've you know, we've got the indumining happening, we've got a lack of accountability, it's in crazy and it's insane. And um, yeah, my heart goes out to my heart goes out because like, bro, that's like a tough thing. But anyways, it is the day. And I'm glad Asmongold is just reaming them for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:37

And I hope he continues to do so heartily. And uh again, Carmelo, how about you drop some soap once in a while? I bet you'll have fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:44

And no lube.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:44

No lube. Spit on it, they said. It won't be so bad, they said they lied.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

Good day. Okay, everybody. That's all the time we have for today. So I want to thank you for stopping by to enjoy the conversation. Uh we're glad you're here and please to share and share again. And share some more. And if you haven't already, subscribe to that. Look forward to seeing the