Hammer Time

This week Jen and Dagda go full nerd mode — and we are absolutely here for it. Dagda breaks down Total Warhammer 3 in glorious detail: factions, chaos gods, city building, army strategy, and the surprisingly deep world map that mirrors real-world geography. Jen connects Dagda's love of mage and healer classes to his real-life calm and observational personality, and the two swap gaming nostalgia from Command & Conquer to Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance to Diablo. They also explore the Cathay faction's Great Wall mechanic, debate vampire pirates, and Dagda shares some wild YouTube strategy videos — including an all-zombie army that somehow almost wins everything.

#podcast #PNW #Warhammer40k #ChaosGods #Warhammer #TotalWarhammer3

Artwork:Maklay62

Transcript

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Welcome

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Anyway, you ready to go? All right, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

You're like, you're not funny, but you are anyway.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Because your mom dresses you funny.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Hi, mommy.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hi, mommy.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

What a way to start an episode for mommy. Oh, I gotta try to see her soon. I know she's super busy with the house stuff and working extra time. It really sucks because I'm not working extra time, but I'm working extra time compared to what I was hired for.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

And there's all that. But I've got a weekend coming up. My partner and I are doing things with his family. And so I needed the whole weekend off. So I feel like for the last three weeks it's just been run run. Yeah. Oh well. Anyways, yeah. So last conversation we had, you were talking about you started playing Warhammered again?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

I started playing Total Warhammer.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Total Warhammer. Okay, and you were saying there's like 40 different classes?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Uh factions. Okay, factions it's uh kind of like a real-time strategy game. I'm not sure exactly what you'd classify it as because not it's not your typical MMORPG. Uh yeah, it's definitely not one of those. Um it's not your typical RTS like Warcraft or uh some of the other ones that were super popular. Eve Online. No, Eve Online is an MMO. Okay. Um basically like Warcraft and StarCraft are the only two that are standing out in my mind right now. Right. Where you basically have uh you have your race or your faction that you're part of, and then you're on a map, and then you gather resources on the map, and then instead this is far more intricate. It's almost like um what was that one? Civilization. Oh man. Where civilization you build your cities and you

Total Warhammer Deep Dive

SPEAKER_01 2:30

build all these buildings in the cities and stuff like that. Yeah, and you evolve from there. It's kind of like that. It's kind of more simplified than like Civ is. Um because in civilization you have no there's no real limit to the expansion of your cities. Okay. Like all the types of things that can be in your city can be in every every city. In this one, you have these, it's broken up into regions, and then the regions typically they'll have one major city that is the capital of that region, and it can have um depending upon your race or your faction and um a particular region, it can have between six and ten slots.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

So and each one of those slots can be filled by a different building or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Um and on top of that, they're specific to the species or the rare faction that you're running. Uh-huh. Sometimes it's the race, but sometimes it's not.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

But um, and so you'll have your own kind of version of them. And then there's also some factions don't build cities at all. Um, they can't build or maintain cities, they can't capture cities, they can just destroy them. Umcs. Which I know is not the correct terminology because, you know I mean there are orcs in this game, but oddly enough, the orcs, I don't think actually, no, there are I think Savage Orcs are one of the factions that doesn't um capture cities. But it's like there's a um lizardman group that is just a roving horde that fucking just obliterates shit in its path.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Um, and then the main one is chaos, a bunch of the chaos subgroups. They don't fucking build anything, they just destroy.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

So they're kind of like uh in the Dresden world, they're kind of like either the ghouls or the outsiders. They're literally just there to consume and destroy. Yeah, pretty much. If it's what the ghouls do. Yeah.

unknown 4:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

So, and you said you've played six or seven different of these?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Of the different factions, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Is your is are is it a goal for you to do all 40 of them just to see what each one does?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Um, I mean you could do that. I I don't have that as a goal. There's some of the groups that I'm like, these this group is disgusting. I don't want anything to do with it.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

It's kind of it's kind of funny in in video games, uh, you know, how it kind of crosses into our real life where it's like, you know what? I just I can't. I don't want to be a pillager, or I don't want to be a mudslinger, or I don't want to be a you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Well, the two that stand out in my mind are Slinesh and Nurgle. Both of those, they're um so Slinesh and Nurgle are two of the four main gods of chaos. And um Nurgle is the god of decay. And so, like, all of his followers are covered in flies and slime and rot. Um and even though it's a video game, it still grosses you out. Yes. Although, oddly enough, he's less gross to me than Slanesh. Slanesh is the god of excess. Um, and uh he's very BDSM. Oh jeez. Or it is very BDSM because it's not uh it's not male or female, it's just an entity of. Um of course, neither is Nurgle or Korn or or fucking cinch.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

But it's kind of interesting how you want to be like he he he for all these nasty negative things. So kind of funny how we we it's funny how we tend to look at these more negatives as we would see them as a male formation.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah. Although often it it's very common for Slanesh to be referred to as she who thirsts, but that's usually the elves who created it.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Oh, the elves walking around. She's so there, yeah. So you play like a mage a lot, you're like, or a wizard, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

In a lot of your Yeah, yeah, wizard, sorcerer, druid, sometimes necromancer, that sort of thing is very common for me to play and while playing games and MMOs and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Which it it's you know, and just knowing you so personally like I do, it's funny because a lot of people would look at you and your personality, especially people listening, they'd be like, um that doesn't sound right. It absolutely does sound right. You do like to be a healer of swords. Yeah. And not and it and here's the funny thing, and I will defend you on this. Not when it just suits you either. It's I think when your circle has uh calmness, I think it provides you with a sense of calmness.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Instead of having that because you do the same thing I do, like, ugh, Jim gonna be in that mood again today. I have to it's an energy suck sometimes. Yeah. And it's uh and it's also hard to see, especially, you know, people you really actually do kind of, you know, as much as you can care about.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah. Also, like a lot of times in video games, especially, um, it's different on in a like a pen and paper role-playing game because it doesn't you don't get overwhelmed necessarily. Yeah. But in video games, a lot of times um being like a fighter or a paladin, like a tank type class or a melee

Chaos Factions

SPEAKER_01 8:00

class in general, um, for me can be overwhelming because so much is happening so fast.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Um, whereas if you're standing back playing a healer or a fucking damage dealer that's a mage type, um, you can see more of the battlefield. Yeah, you can observe more and then be able to you have some free time for your responses.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Whereas if you're in Melee, it's like, oh shit, he just did this, I gotta do that.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Much more Twitch type gaming.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

It's like it's like Mortal Kombat play. Whereas this like button smash, some at some point you get told button smash. Yeah. You know, and it's it's interesting because so have all the classes that you've played been kind of around that same realm?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Um, not really, because in this game, you're it's almost like you're a god overlooking what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Um, and then you're directing stuff.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Um, so for instance, when you're looking at the campaign map, you're looking at the map as a whole and dictating what's going on in okay, this village, I have to I only have four slots. So each one of those slots is really important. Um this villa this city, however, has eight slots, and so I can play with what I'm going to be doing with that. Also, a lot of times they'll be like, okay, there's a special um there's a special location in this village or this city, and so it has a unique thing that can be built there and only be built there. Um, and so you're playing with that, and like, okay, do I need more food production so that I can produce more people? Or do I need more money? Right. Or do I need this other thing? And so you're tweaking that at a at a worldwide scale, pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Yeah, it's a it's a it's it's definitely sounds like it's uh strategic planning at its finest.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yes, and then then you get into also you're moving your army, you build armies and then you move them around and attack your enemies. Right. Um and so when you're doing that, um you control okay, what's in the army, first of all. Um, and then you're moving it around on the on the map, and then attacking stuff, and then when you are actually in a combat, um sometimes you can auto-resolve it's called, where basically the thing predicts, the game predicts okay, what's gonna be the outcome of this matchup between these two armies or multiple armies. Um and if it's good, you can just click auto-resolve, you can click it if it's bad too, but you can just click auto-resolve if you don't feel like going through the process of actually fighting the battle because otherwise you go into the battle and you actually control your troops through the course of a battle. So it's you're not controlling a wizard, although you have a leader, a port of port uh and and commander, which you would refer to them as, but basically you have an actual leader of your your overall force. And of course each army would also have a leader. Right. But your so the overall commander of your force gives you first of all, they're part of a faction, so that gives you certain things, and then the individual leader also gives you certain bonuses and sometimes penalties also, and it kind of dictates the gameplay. Um well not kind of, it very much dictates how you play the game. Right. Um, because you want to play to their strengths and not their weaknesses. Um and so you have that, but you're not really you're kind of playing that person, but not really, because like I said, you're controlling all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

So it's not like a role-playing game where you're playing a wizard or a ranger or a thief or something. Instead, it's it's more of a strategic, which is why I was saying it's like a it's kind of like an RTS real-time strategy, but not really, because you don't go through the um only on the campaign level are you doing all the stuff that you would be doing in a real-time strategy. On the battle level, you're just controlling the dudes or chicks or creatures or whatever for that battle. And then after that battle, you revert back to the strategy, the strategic level.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

When when you're do you build the armies, like decide I'm gonna do 20% heavy tank, 20% this, or or is it already pre-made predicted for you?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

So no, well, you start out with one or two armies that are pre-made, but um one of the things like when you're building

Dagda's Playstyle

SPEAKER_01 13:00

buildings, there are actual um buildings that produce military units.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

And so you have to build those, and then you can buy more of that unit in the towns, because all the stuff gets generated in the towns. So, like your generals of each army, they get generated at a town, and you get a list of them to select from each time you go to do it. Um and so you generate a general, and then you can basically I think it's called reinforcing, where you basically generate more troops, but you have a list of troops that can be generated at a particular location based on the things that you have, the buildings that you built.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

So it's very it it almost sounds like Command and Conquer Risk and Civilization had an origin. This is what they came up with. Kind of, yeah. Which is which is interesting. I used to love Command and Conquer on the PC.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Yeah, that was one of the other ones. Probably the first one, I want to say. I don't know if it was the first one or not, but it was the first one that I played, Command and Conquer. Yeah. And then Command and Conquer Red Alert.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Red Alert, yeah, Red Alert was a lot of interest. It was very interesting because it was just like you kind of knew which way, once you figured out what everything was, you knew which way you needed to move on your map, yeah, because you're like, oh no, I need some gorillas.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah. I always liked turtle, basically build up my forces and build up a defense to where it was pretty much impenetrable, and then go out and conquer stuff. Yeah. Which is a valid strategy, but sometimes it would bite you in the ass because certain groups would would build up a force too fast for you to do that. Yeah. It also depended upon the map that you're on, though. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Yeah, and and me, it's it's very interesting because I like ranged fighters. I I've always have. I always I think that's why I like so much of uh Daryl Dixon on the Walking Dead, is because he's a ranged fighter. He can do, he can do both, yeah, but he's a much better he at the beginning, he's a much better ranged fighter.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Um, speaking of which, I just finished season three of uh Daryl.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

I still haven't even finished the regular Walking Dead.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

So yeah, not to I'm not gonna get into it on this episode too much, but I am gonna say they did just announce AMC and Netflix made a partnership that all everything walking dead is going to be on available on Netflix until at least 2032.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Damn.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

And that and as it the stick the the count stands today, there's 371 different episodes of all the different Walking Dead stuff.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Yeah. So, but we'll get in that in another time, anyway. So yeah, I I liked Range Fighters and just Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2. Yeah, just that rogue just did it for me. It was just like so addicting because it was like, you know, the more you worked it, the the more you built your accuracy up.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

And instead of kind of being this fuzzy, it kind of went down, and it was just so fun because you could build your your strength, your agility, your all of that, and you could just plink, plink, plink, plink, plink because you know it's magic. So you can have 900 arrows in your pack.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah. You you told me about this before, but I assume that you played the rogue in Diablo in the original Diablo.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Yeah, yeah. Every iteration I've ever been able to play of Diablo, because I played Diablo one and two, and I completed them on two different ways. Yeah, well, two different ways, because I did rogue and paladin.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

So, you know, I did rogue and then I did a sword fighter.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah. I don't know if you would call it the paladin. Yeah, it wasn't the paladin. In the well, in the original game, you had the rogue warrior, I think it was called. Yeah. And then the mega.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah. So I played the first time I played Diablo, I did the rogue. Second time I played it, I did Warrior. And then Diablo 2, I think, I think with Diablo 2, it wasn't as fun for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, they didn't have a rogue in the second one.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah, it was just like, yeah, it just it just wasn't as fun for me. But uh anything like in it started on PS2 so many moons ago, where like I said, you've got the Boulders Gate series. They had Dark Alliance 1, Dark Alliance 2. And I bought Dark Alliance 2 because I didn't have Dark Alliance 1 available because I just finished out Diablo, and the guy at the GameStop was like, he's like, oh well, try this, try this line. And I'm like, okay. And it was just it was like the love at first plank.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

You know, the funny thing is, most people, most most video gamers, um, if they're if if you mention uh Baldur's Gate, they're gonna be thinking of a different game series. Yeah. Um, which is I've never finished one of those games. And one of the reasons is because I get so sidetracked

Campaign vs Battle Map

SPEAKER_01 18:00

in all the minutiae. I spent probably 12 hours one time just making a character. Oh wow. Um, and it was because in the original Baldur's Gate, and I think in Baldur's Gate 2, you could sit there and just roll for a character, and so I I kept doing it until I got like all perfect scores one time. So all eighteens in all my stats. And then it was like because one of the things with that edition of DD that it was based off of, um there were a bunch of classes that were restricted based on your stats, which is kind of understandable because a paladin kind of needs to have very good strength, very good charisma, and very good constitution. And the rest of the stats can kind of go fuck themselves, but some of those other stats are still really important.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Um, same thing with a monk. You have to have very good dexterity, very good strength, very good agility, and a very good wisdom.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

At the minimum.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yeah. Uh I I always started my always started my rogue fighters the same way. Agility, dexterity, stamina, and charisma. Those were always my four top priorities. Because I tried it the first time I played Dark Alliance 2, um, I tried it with a lower to try to get my agility and dexterity up because it just, you know, once you get those stats up there, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

But, you know, you really have to have charisma or everything costs you too much in the game.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

And yeah, so so the way William at GameStop, yeah, it was GameStop, I bought it at um, the way he described it, he's just like, it's like pen of papa, this kind of a game, this kind of a shooter, like had a biving. So it kind of really did, you know, encompass like the the RPG live side of it. And and of course, I found this like, oh my gosh, at least six years before Xbox, I ever discovered Xbox Live. So, you know, we're going back a few moons. Yeah, but you know, and it was just, and I remember seeing him after I had gotten that and he goes, So what did you think? And I was just like, uh, and I'm not gonna lie about it. I'm not there's no point in lying about it. And I looked him and I said, Um, I called out sick from work the next day. Yeah because I was literally up all night and I hadn't been sick in like two, I hadn't called out of work in like two years. Yeah. Like I hadn't even taken my vacation time from work. So I was just like, look. But that became a new, that became a new habit for several gamers. And I know a lot of Gen Xers will be like, we we got up, we went even when we didn't feel like it, we didn't do work, but the first year Xbox Live, the 360 Live came out. A lot of us Gen Xers had our first sick days ever. Because it'd be like, oh my god, there's a new release. Let's stamp, let's go to the midnight release, and then we're gonna do it. And so, you know, I I think I did it like the first year, I think I did it for like four different games, maybe. But then it was just like, you know what? Um, it's just not worth it.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, the only time I ever did one of those fucking release day things was for the PlayStation 3 itself. Uh-huh. That was the first and last time I did that.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

You know, it's it's interesting because I like I don't know. I think I think Seven Days Night isn't considered an RPG. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I think it's just considered a survival game.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Yeah, it's it's a survival scheme, but when you play it it's definitely not an RPG. Well, when no, when you play it Darkness Falls, Darkness Falls actually has a campaign to it.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

An entire campaign.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Do they have people like giving you missions?

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Yes. You can buy stuff and you go to the traders, you get jobs, you buy, sell, trade. Um, but in Darkness Falls edition. You have a complete other mission system and like one of my worlds, because I only have two worlds now. Because I kind of go through these, I like the beginning parts where it's it's a very thing, and how fast like my record right now is three full days to have my first motorcycle built. So I, you know, I just I like to get in there and try to explore a little bit more. Um, but so my shamalem, yeah, I like that name. My shamelem map um has uh I've already found Eve, who's a real big person to get in contact with to get you know the underground Dr. Anna unlocked and all that. Um she like doesn't trust me. She's like, I don't know you, go find this person. And Razor is super hard. Razor is the guy where okay, we can we can start trusting you because you're on our side about this. So you've got Razor, Dr. Anna, and Eve, and they all play this integral part to you going to this

Gaming Nostalgia

SPEAKER_03 23:00

bunker thing. Um and I can't find them. So I'm like, damn it. But I also don't do the prefabs, so you're more likely to get everything you need on a because when you create your own maps, which I don't play the game to achieve the goal of I want to beat Darkness Falls campaign, I don't I don't care that much. I wanna I want to go and I wanna, you know, just it it's my relaxed time, yeah, or whatever. Um, but yeah, anyways, so are you enjoying it this time around?

SPEAKER_01 23:33

I mean, I only started playing it yesterday and I went through and played the so I'm playing um Total Warhammer 3.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Um, which one of the interesting things with the way they the uh creative something or other, I don't remember the name of them. Basically the company that makes Total the Total War series. Okay. Because Total Warhammer is a special subset of Total War. Um they made it so that each edition of the game kind of works with the previous editions. Oh, that's kind of nice. Yeah, so you can kind of choose um kind of what state the world is in because the world's um has expanded with each new version of it. Sure. Like in the the Total Warhammer 3, they did something when it came out. I was like, that is awesome. Um so most of uh most of the information and gameplay in Warhammer in general occurs in basically Europe. Like um the Empire, which is the main protagonist, I guess you would say, in the setting, um, is basically the Holy Roman Empire, which is kind of more or less Germany, um in medieval time period, right? Um so that's where most of even though the people who created it are British, it's Germany that they basically not anyway. Um uh so most of the information for the setting is around that area. However, they have explored, um, put out rules and stuff for other areas. Uh-huh. Like South America is referred to as Lustria, that's where the lizard men live. North America is where the dark elves live, basically. Um, there's an Atlantis-like island out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Well, the equivalent of the Atlantic Ocean. Um, I can't remember the name of it right now, but that's where the high elves live. Um Africa is filled with a bunch of dead people.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

What?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

So there is so a good portion of North Africa is filled with orcs, and then you have basically Egypt, which is expanded basically to take up almost the entirety of North Africa, and then going down into southern parts of Africa too, um, is essentially Egypt, but they're all mummies. It's a whole fucking dead kingdom, basically.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

And then I mean, is that like saying something because Africa is like a really dry place?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

No, they just kind of they sort of semi-based it off of Earth to simplify things for themselves, probably. Yeah. And you feel like trying to create a whole new thing.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

I'm not gonna lie, that's kind of interesting, a whole entire continent of mummies.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

That is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Uh between kings. It's not quite the whole continent, because um for some reason they moved Egypt and the Arab nations together, and then sort of shifted the Arab nations west further. So the Arab nations are more out like towards the big bulbous part of Africa. Like the Moody. Um and then no, it would be the chest because at the top.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Um so like where Gold Coast and all that is, I believe that's where Arabi is at. Um, and then most of the rest of it is effectively Egypt. Um, and then anyway, those areas have been all explored a lot. Like there's lots of novels and stuff that are in those regions, also. Um the Scandinavian countries. Um I can't remember Norska is what that's referred to as. Um, that's full of chaos Vikings, basically. They're essentially they're Vikings, but they're corrupted by chaos. Um, so just Vikings. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I live with one, so tentacles and shit. Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Nothing says creepy, like a tentacle viking. Yeah. Tinnacled Viking.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

If Slinesh is involved, then yes. Um, and then like Russia effectively is the northern sort of corner just below Norska.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Uh um, it's referred to as Kizlev. Um, and then the majority of like Siberia and everything basically west of the Ural Mountains, I believe it's called they're called. The ones that basically break up Europe and Asia is all chaos waste until you get way out to the east, and then you have effectively China. But it's called uh Cathay. And anyway, it it's been a very long time since they did anything with Cathay. It's been part of the part of the mythos or whatever, the lore of the setting for a very long time, but it's been decades and decades since they even mentioned it. But when this game came out, all of a sudden Cathay was part of the game, and they have like these dragon emperors and shit. Really fucking cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Yeah. Um like I could see how somebody who really, you know, likes that whole setting, that world and everything, I can see how that would be really exciting to have it just expand and expand and expand.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Especially when this is something that got mentioned a long, long time ago and hasn't been fucking talked about since.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Yeah, it's kind of like somebody going, so I I made dessert. It's like, I'm here to explain. Oh, yeah, in the oven. You know, I mean, it's like in these little hits, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

And then you pull it up and they're like, I you're like, can I have some of that now? Nope, this is the having cake. Make the eating cake later.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

It's just funny how we you know we do silly things as humans, but isn't sometimes the anticipation pays off, sometimes it doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

But just seeing your eyes

Warhammer World Map

SPEAKER_03 30:00

light up when you, you know, it's just like, oh, it paid off for you.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

It's really cool. You know, yeah. Like your eyes get like people don't understand. Your eyes get really like alien-wide when you get really excited. He's sorry, sorry. Well, you say that, and then I just watched um the Salem's Lot uh movie remake that they had on HBO Max. Okay, and it's got uh Bill Pullman's son, uh literally, I can picture him. He was void in Thunderbolts.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Okay, I'm not watching.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's anyways, it it's it's it's Bill Pullman's kid. Okay.

unknown 30:46

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Um, and it's just like there's this, there's a scene where the kid's outside of the his friend's window.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Let me yeah, let me yah.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

And so you're saying I'm flying, I'm flying, I'm flying, and I can just see this kid. And they did a really good job of him making him creepy, anyways. So yeah, no. So so now you're so you're going through it again, and you're in, can you say it one more time? Not China, but it's Cathay. That's definitely not what I thought I heard in my head.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

So so now I think it that's actually an old term for China or something along those lines. Sounds about right. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Sounds right, you know, it's it's amazing to me how like um I love Wikipedia because you learn so many things. Yeah. And it's so funny that, you know, I just never think anybody in the world appreciates Wikipedia like I do. But obviously, y'all do because you know, it's still around. And then it was like, I was looking up, I'm so obsessed with Jim Butcher right now. Not Jim Butcher, James Marsters, but I'm trying to hide that. Trying to hide my James Marster's obsession, but it's just like there's something Butcher said in one of his books, he wrote in one of his books, and I went research it and I'm like, holy shit, Haley, he may he didn't necessarily get it right out of Wikipedia, but I'm like, oh, that's verifiable. That really was that way. Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

I mean, a lot of authors include legitimate facts in their stuff, and it's kind of funny listening to them talk about their research or whatever, and it's like, what kind of research are you really doing? This fucking vampire state.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

But a lot of times they'll actually Yeah, there is it it's so crazy where it's you know, you listen so you can have two authors, right? Two different authors, they do they they write the same genre, and it's always fascinating to me their different takes on the way one looks at vampires and the way the other one looks like like and it's so nice the way some of them do it, where it's just like not in this uh reality, yeah. You know, in other in other worlds and other you know, realities and everything, it's a little more like like yeah, anyways. So are you exploring China? Is that what you're doing with this? No, I so you just have access to it now, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

I I have started a couple of campaigns in China just to mess with it. I don't the idea is really cool, but I don't particularly like the way that um they handle some of the Chinese troops, not because I don't think it's cool or interesting, but so they have this uh mechanic that as far as I know all the Cathayan um subgroups have, which is basically yin and yang. Right. And your armies won't be optimized unless they have a balance of both, which okay, but it forces you to take um it forces you to choose between two different things that are not necessarily equal. And so it's like okay, I have these yin troops, um, I need to get yang troops, right? And it's weird because it's kind of I I didn't play it a whole lot to get like a my head really around it. Because sometimes it'll be okay, so these archers are yin, let's say. And then these cavalry are yang. Okay, I need archers and cavalry, unless I want to specialize in one or the other. Right. Um and even if I specialized in one or the other, well, the archers are yin. If I have just yin, I'm gonna have penalties to how good my army is. Um well, I won't get the bonuses. Yeah. But that's the same as having a penalty, basically.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Yeah, because that's why we play the games is to beat them.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah. And so in order to optimize, sometimes you have to take two things that you don't want to have. Because you're like, eh, both of these kind of suck. I don't want either one of these, but I need to have this in order to have the balance that you want. Um, so I didn't particularly like that. Also, um China or Cathay is right on the border of the chaos waste, which is where all the fucking chaos comes from. And so they're pressed early on by really gnarly forces of chaos. Um and it's like I I'm feeling too much pressure. I'm gonna relax and play this game, not fucking feel like I'm about to get raped.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

It almost sounds like the game's like, oh, you've wanted to play here for a while now, huh?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

You're gonna get fucked.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

You wanna come back and try again?

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Another cool thing that they did with Cathay is they included the Great Wall of China. Neat. But it's there to basically block chaos. So they um all of the different factions within Cathay kind of have this agreement, man the fucking wall, because otherwise we're all fucked.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

So they have like um this giant wall, and then they have these big ass gates.

The Cathay

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Um, and then basically you can send out armies to protect the gates. Like the you'll get this warning, oh, such and such gate is about to be assaulted, and then you're like, well, fuck now, I gotta send troops over there because I don't want these motherfuckers in here. This is my fucking land. I don't want you keep your poop tentacle away from me. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

So, yeah, that was kind of well, it's it's interesting because it's like it sounds like you gotta work out a few of the mechanics. And I think once you actually kind of wrap your mind around how it's done and what it's for, I think you're gonna really enjoy it. Just because it'll be that challenge of great, here I go into cafe. Yeah, here I'm going to cathay finally after all these years, and I gotta keep the poop tentacle involved.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Yeah. Like uh just another added with you don't want to play with the octocongs? No, just like I don't want to play with the undead fucking um naval people. Basically, there's a subgroup of vampires that are pirates. Like I'm sorry, like pirates of the Caribbean pirates, yeah. And so, but they're all like you remember the fucking um the undead pirates, the dude with the tentacle face and all that, yeah, yeah. They're like that, yeah. But they're vampires. Well, the the leadership is vampires, and then most of them are zombies or whatever, but they're kind of gross, also.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

I don't want to fucking yeah, but you have to admit, Davy Jones, that that that whole the whole tentacle beard was that was actually really it was really well done. Yeah, but all I can hear when you're saying it's vampires, it's yarn give me your blood, not give me your gold, give me ye booty, give me your blood. Yeah, and it's I don't I don't know so even though it's stuff I don't like, you know, there it pondures the question. Do the mechanics of the game have the ability, should you take over this particular faction that's kind of a disgusting faction? Can you make it like do for good? Um or do you have to use it in the way the chaos intends it? Can you, you know, you know, can can you reform your chaos?

SPEAKER_01 38:14

So that's difficult. That also goes into something that I haven't talked about in this yet, is diplomacy. So diplomacy is also a big thing in this, um, just like it is in like civilization. Yeah. Although I've never had a diplomatic win. Um I've had wins, I can't remember. There's a win where basically your influence is kind of diplomatic, but not really, where your influence, like the United States has influenced most of the world with our music and movies and stuff like that, and our like food products and all that. Um so you can win basically just by having your influence so strong that basically everybody converts to your fucking um civilization effectively. Well, in Total War, you can't do that, but you can create uh diplomatic ties with other groups, and in some cases you have to do it this way. Basically, you build up enough diplomacy that you fucking you basically create a confederation, is called, where basically they join your group, and now all their armies, all their cities become part of your fealty to you, or to each other, I guess you'd say. Yeah. Um, and so there are certain groups that will not, it doesn't matter what you do, they will not fucking join you.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Um, and the chaos ones are one of those that basically they don't get along with anybody. Um they might make like um uh non-aggression treaties and maybe trade treaties dependent upon they're not gonna make true alliances, yeah. And

Vampire Pirates! Yar!

SPEAKER_01 40:00

um maybe within themselves, like the different chaos factions can in some cases join each other um because there's such a thing as chaos undivided. Um but um most of those groups especially if you're there's quote unquote good guy groups and there's quote unquote bad guy groups, right? The chaos, uh the orcs, the undead, well the vampires specifically, the the uh the uh necrons, the fucking Egyptians. Um they are it's kind of hard to tell whether they're good or bad. Um the uh beastmen and the fucking ratmen, all of them are quote unquote bad guy factions. Um the high elves, the wood elves, the dwarves, um and basically the majority of humans, the wizard men, those are all quote-unquote good guy groups. So typically, not always, but typically anybody within the bad guy group can create alliances with anybody else in the bad guy group. Right. They're all about fucking each other over. Um and anybody within the good guy group can make alliances with anybody within the good guy group. Now, they won't necessarily join you in confederation, like the humans and elves will never join together in confederation. So you can't get them to actually join your group, you can get them as allies. Um whereas like um also the different factions, the different primary factions, so like the Empire um won't confederate with Britonia, let's say, because that's the French that I mean, you know. But yeah, they won't they won't confederate with each other. But within that group, there's a bunch of subgroups. Those groups can all confederate and become one big group. Um, but yeah, they won't confederate with each other. Yeah, you can conquer them and you can have them as allies, but they won't just straight up join you.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Yeah, they're not gonna walk over the basket of roses and be like, yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

Go have a pen.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Which would be cool if they could, because one of the things that I really liked doing in uh StarCraft was I liked I loved the Protoss. The Protoss were cool in and of themselves, but if you got um the dark protoss, I can't remember what they're called, but the the sort of shadow version of the protoss, you could fucking capture and convert um people from your enemy factions into your own, and then what you could do is if you got if you captured one of the builder units from the Zerg, you could build an entire Zerg colony, and then you'd have Zerg, your own Zerg that you could go and fight, and you could capture a human builder, then you could build an entire human colony and have them out there fighting for you too. So you could be playing all three fucking groups if you were playing the Protoss. And in that particular game, there was a little cheat because each faction in that game had a uh a uh uh unit cap. So like the protoss could only have like a hundred troops or whatever. I don't know if that's the case, but let's say that was the case. Humans could have like 200, and then Zerg could have like 300.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

If you did what I just said and captured, you could still have 100 protoss and 200 humans and 300 Zerg. So you could have an army of 600 versus 1, 2, or 3. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Nice. Dang. Well you can't do that in in Tori. Yeah. I don't know. We'll have to see how the how it progresses for you and uh get an update on it because it sounds like you're really just kind of not to be gross or makeup under it's like it's really almost like you just got the tip into it.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah, and also like recently I had watched for some reason, I don't remember why, for some reason I started watching a bunch of this one dude's YouTube videos about total war and like fucking like strategies and stuff of how to fucking do stuff. He makes a bunch of ridiculous videos where he's like, I'm gonna go super deep into this particular strategy,

Until Next Time!

SPEAKER_01 44:30

right? And then I'm gonna fucking win the campaign using just that tactic or whatever. Yeah. Like there was one where he did nothing but ghosts, and his entire army except for the leader were all ghosts. Um and it was kind of gnarly, actually. I was like, I kind of want to fucking do that now. Right. And then he did the same thing with zombies. He made this Uber zombie army. Everybody but the leader was zombies, the leader was a vampire. Um and basically zombies are one of the crappiest units in the game, but they're not meant to be super powerful, they're meant to be a throwaway unit that you just uh put it in front of the cavalry and let the cavalry get tied up while the actual fucking threat and the right sneaks around, backdoors them, yeah. Um but this particular build they were almost indestructible. Nice, they couldn't do a lot of damage, but didn't matter. You sit there for four hours and it will kill everybody.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

But nice, yeah. So we'll have we'll definitely have to get an update from you on that because it does sound interesting. Um, because I'm I'm assuming it's available on Steam.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

You know, so that's kind of interesting. Um, but we have got stuff we gotta take care of today. So we gotta quit having fun and go be all serious and all that.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Go be all adult and shit.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

So tired of adulting. Anyways, so yeah, that sound that sounds interesting. And seeing your face light up, I know it's got to be really intriguing for you. So we'll have to see if you try any of his strategies in a you know, we'll check in in a couple weeks on it.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Um I've already been using some of them.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

And are you liking them?

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Yeah, I mean uh some of them were like, okay, I kind of knew that, but I didn't really connect with whatever.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Um so yeah, so we'll get an update from you after you've put a few more hours into it and we'll see how it goes for our business. Sound good? Yep. Awesome. Everybody, have a great day.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

Later.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Bye. Okay, everybody. That's all the time we have for today. I want to thank you for stopping by and enjoy the conversation. We're glad you're here.