Provider Pulse Ep.31: Dr. Ayman Youssef, MD - From Texas to Harborview: Finding Identity and a Place at the Table

What does it mean to belong somewhere when you've never quite fit anywhere?

In this episode of the Provider Pulse Series EthnoMed Podcast, we interview Dr. Ayman Youssef, Chief Resident of Quality Improvement in Internal Medicine at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. Ayman grew up in Houston as the bicultural son of an Egyptian Muslim father and an American mother — finding he never quite fit in at his Islamic school or in public school.

His path to Harborview was anything but direct. It wound through a series of engineering majors, a grueling commute through Houston traffic, a passion for organic chemistry, and a personal statement that forced him — for the first time — to make sense of his own story.

We also get into the work that now defines much of his day: running Harborview's Morbidity and Mortality Conference, where he works to review cases of adverse outcomes while ensuring that he remains curious, humble, and human.

This is Part One of a two-part conversation. It's a story about finding potential late, earning belonging slowly, and learning to hold failure — your own and the system's — with honesty and care.

Visit EthnoMed.org for additional resources. Follow us on YouTube and Instagram @EthnoMedUW

Transcript

25_11_05 Ayman Part 1

 [00:00:00] 

Chapter 1: Opening Quote

Ayman: I look at, cases of errors and do exploration and, evaluation and running the conference itself. I think holding that space to be really vulnerable, and to experience the pain regret, remorse, shame, but then controlling that and letting it, rather than be, a negative experience that crushes you.

It actually, becomes the impetus to like grow be better and, make our system stronger.

Chapter 2: Introduction

Ayman: Welcome to the EthnoMed Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Duncan Reid, a primary care physician at harborview's International Medicine Clinic [00:00:30] and medical director of EthnoMed. In our ongoing provider Pulse series, we continue to highlight healthcare providers and the diverse paths they took to their current positions.

We also explore how their experiences impact the care that they provide today. Whether you are a medical student, medical professional, or someone who's simply interested in the stories behind medical professionals, this podcast is for you.

In our intro, we heard from Dr. Amen Youssef. He's the chief resident of quality improvement in internal medicine at Harborview Medical Center in [00:01:00] Seattle, where he spends much of his time running something called morbidity and mortality Conference m and m, a regular gathering where doctors examine cases where things went wrong and ask why.

It is the kind of work you grow into if you develop the right combination of curiosity, humility, and willingness to sit with uncomfortable questions, which, as it turns out, describes something of how Amon Yusef has moved through his entire life.

But to understand how we got to that conference room at Harborview Medical Center, [00:01:30] we have to go back, back to Houston, back to an Islamic school where he was a principal's son and didn't quite fit in back to a calculus classroom where someone finally saw his potential and back to a medical school application where for the first time, he had to articulate to himself and to others how his path made any sense? This is part one of a part two conversation with Dr. Ayman Youssef.

Chapter 3: What is M&M--and Why it Matters

Ayman: my name is Ayman Youssef. I am a chief resident of the internal medicine program under Harborview, currently. [00:02:00] And I work in the role of, quality and safety. 

one of the biggest things I do is organize the department of Medicine Morbidity and Mortality Conference. And that happens, every second and fourth Wednesday of the month, and it's a large conference.

Duncan: For younger 

listeners who aren't in medicine yet, M and M or this morbidity and mortality is a big part of medicine in general, right? No matter what field of medicine you're in. And I think there's kind of a cultural shift that has taken place, would you say, 

over the past few decades.

Ayman: Absolutely. I mean, 

M and M morbidity, [00:02:30] mortality, has been around for, for a long time. that's, something that's in medicine culture and in adjacent media as well, where like, why did you do this in, its kind of intensive interrogation of like, how could you be so stupid?

that culture has shifted and it's, more under the lens of quality improvement. looking at not just the individual and how the individual make errors or lapses, but also the system. We have a very complicated chaotic system that's, inevitable, to have errors that develop.

So, morbidity, mortality are looking at cases where there were poor [00:03:00] outcomes in terms of either someone died or things that were very morbid. and it's kind of looking at those, cases and, seeing where we can do better and improve.

Chapter 4: Quality Improvement as a Form of Justice

Ayman: And so it's a lot of just a very investigative work, honestly. It's a lot of sleuthing and then it's, a lot of curiosity. And I think the curiosity part has been really enjoyable for me. I am a curious person and I think that is what kind of fuels a lot of my desire to do this work.

And, and also desire to seek truth, It really is, I think, a form of justice that we do. I think [00:03:30] just in terms of, investigating harm and then, there's no way to undo something that happens. And sometimes we can't control things that happen. things are very complicated. at times. Sometimes there is a very discrete error, but learning from it and making sure that we do our best to, prevent that from happening again.

I think that's, really a form of restoration, really making sure we learn from the harm that we do.

Duncan: Has it changed the way that you practice clinical medicine.

Ayman: I mean obviously I learned a lot from these cases.one thing I appreciated always is there's things that you just can't control. 

The trajectory of things, the [00:04:00] path that, either patients are on You're one actor and I'm not that important.

It's easy to have miscommunication it's easy to make assumptions about someone not having the best intent or someone being lazy or someone, you know, whatever. And I think it's helpful to see the different sides, different angles, and actually see okay, like this person was trying, and so I think that's humbling for me. I could have very well done these same things. and often, there's a lot of challenging decisions or errors that happen that, I think many people would make. And that's the whole point.

So many of us would fall into [00:04:30] this, situation. so it's just, it's very humbling. It's very humbling. And, being more curious, being more accepting that I make mistakes.

It's reflective type work. it's stuff I always will want to be doing, and I think it's at the core of just, our human nature, I think it's the core of what's important, which is growth, reflection on experience. that's a lifelong process. you know, bringing in the reality of being a human being into this field.

and that's honestly the spirit. what I try to bring to the M and M conference that I run. That's the energy I try to bring. You know, it's intense. I ask [00:05:00] pointed questions, but at the end of the day, thank you so much. I appreciate what you did.

And I'm sorry that what happened and, everything that you've experienced as a result. 

Chapter 5: Family Background--Houston, Egypt, and Islam

Duncan: Ayman talks about medicine the way someone does when they have had to work to earn the relationship with it when it wasn't handed to them and when the path to it was anything but clear. To understand where that came from, you have to understand where he started.

So that's where you are. Now. 

Where are you from and 

what, what's your story?

Ayman: My dad is Egyptian and my mom [00:05:30] is, American, which boils down to family roots coming from, Irish, British, and German. I was born in College Station, Texas, so a home of the Aggies.

That's where my parents met. My mom was a Longhorn. for those that know they have a, rivalry in the past. So it's just funny that my parents got married. I grew up a large part of my life in Houston. 

my mom did not grow up Muslim. I come from a Muslim background and it's important. My mom converted, in her late twenties, before she met my dad.

You know, she traveled the [00:06:00] world to explore and, figure out, what felt like the truth for her. And she landed on Islam. and then my dad, is Muslim and, they got married, so that's kind of background I think is important for me.

 growing up, as bicultural or mixed identity is hard, you know? I was in a Muslim school growing up. I grew up in a private Islamic school, all the way until 10th grade. I had Quran class, Islamic studies are basically like scripture studies.

I had. Arabic class, but I was never very good at any of them, and I always had a hard time with that. [00:06:30] Other people in the school were, Arab background, Pakistani background, Desi background, all kinds of background.

And, many people were, far better at these things. And so there was the isolation there. We grew up from, humble financial background and there are a lot of, wealthier people around us. And so that was always something I, appreciated, but I didn't really understand.

I felt how it made life hard. I didn't really grasp, I just knew that we were different. We didn't go on vacations. We didn't take time off, always kind of grinding, you know, hard work. My parents were very much about working really hard, [00:07:00] but for a cause they believed, you know, my dad was the principal of the school, this Islamic school, and my mom was an English teacher there, so I was the son of all that.

 And that was the context that I grew up in. Very steadfast on their principles of really wanting to provide a space for people to grow and learn and like love the faith, my dad very much believes education is one of the most important things regardless of financial outcome, like the idea of being a scholar is very important.

And my mom also had that emphasis. So that was, something that was always in the [00:07:30] background, just like working hard, doing the right thing. And also caring about, your intellect, your education. I'm the oldest of, three brothers, and so I got the large brunt of that. I gave my parents a good run for their money, and so I think they're exhausted.

you know, my brothers, they're great, but I definitely, got the, pressure of all these things. 

Duncan: When I think about that, your dad was principal, your mom's an English teacher. I'm wondering at home, is the demeanor change much from what it was at school or is it kind of an extension

Ayman: My dad is 

the same you know, my [00:08:00] dad is consistent. I've never met a more consistent person, honestly, like he is to a fault, consistent on his principals values. Everything. There was no like different treatment of people at school versus me. It's like, principal is just my dad. My, you know, like in terms of hats is just that he functioned very well as a principal and as a model and someone who can guide, values.

But it was same thing at home, you know, so my mom, is a fun type person. Very big heart. so there was a balance. We're a very goofy family too, so, you know, we're, we're a [00:08:30] bunch of weirdos. 'cause you have people that mixed backgrounds and identities trying to figure out what the hell life is about.

And we all kind of justcope with humor. But that's the kind of home we have.

Duncan: Ayman's father, had once wanted to be a doctor himself, but as a non-Saudi living in Saudi Arabia, he wasn't eligible for their medical schools. Engineering became his path instead. He eventually moved to Texas, came close to finishing a PhD in civil engineering, and then pivoted to education.

He became a school [00:09:00] principal. Ayman would attend this school, and this came with its own complications.

Chapter 6: Bullying and Not Fitting In

Duncan: You said you weren't particularly 

academic

Ayman: Yeah, I would say I, I 

was a non-academic. I was a bit more of, goofball really is more of my field of expertise, growing up and, you know, I had a lot of hard times. it's not popular to be the principal's son.

 I experienced a lot of bullying. I was very isolated a lot of times. I wasn't very communicative of that, it was not really known always. and for me, I thought it was normal.

People gave me a hard time 'cause of this [00:09:30] reason and that makes sense that's just how it is, you know? Yeah. You know, I get it. You hate me 'cause my dad's a principal and you, got in trouble the other day.

So now I'm not getting picked for any of the sports or getting hit with the ball or whichever. And so that affected me a lot growing up. I didn't realize how it affected me and then I left that school and went to a public school, a very White predominant area, not diverse.

 it was a very diverse school that I came from. You know, I had people from all across the globe, United as just being Muslims. You had people all across Africa, [00:10:00] Indonesia, Malaysia, all across Indian, subcontinent, middle East, even had some, people who converted, who were initially Christians from, south America, and we had American converts, as well.

 So it was a very diverse environment and went from that, where I was also isolated, then I went to a white Christian predominant environment, very wealthy. So it didn't fit in still from the wealth part, but, you know, in my Islamic school, I was more white and that was kind of different.

And I didn't speak Arabic my mom didn't really instill American [00:10:30] culture, you know, and so I, I didn't fit in culturally or, looks wise and, in Islamic school.

And then I went to the white school and then there's a kind of moment where it's like, Hey, you're cool. And then, they're like, what's your name? And then things would fall apart. And that's kind of how it felt like. And soNow I'm not white enough.

Duncan: Not white enough for one world, not Muslim enough for another, not wealthy enough to disappear into either. Ayman describes his period with a perspective of intervening years, but you can still hear his sense of isolation.

Ayman: I grew up feeling a lot that I [00:11:00] didn't have potential. I was not top of the class. I was not popular, et cetera, et cetera. And, my parents, were humble. They were hard workers. so I didn't have these instilled ideas growing up that like, I'm destined for greatness of some sort, or that I have to do certain things.

 I knew that I needed to be a good person at least that's what my parents modeled and work hard. But there was no like, you are gonna be a doctor, you are this or that. I didn't have any of these things kind of superimposed on me.

I was in that group of people that did not know what they were doing necessarily.

Chapter 7: The Calculus Teacher Who Gave Him Time

Duncan: how was school, 

like were you interested in school [00:11:30] or interested in things in high school? Like what? 

Like what did you like?

Ayman: I think that was a big changing point in high school, kind of going through those experiences and like, kind of beginning to feel that I have some potential.

I liked math actually. I was never a great, student. at least the other students were better than me. And so I always resigned myself to that. And so I, it was hard to try when, I didn't really know, what I was amounting to.

I just knew that. I wish I was performing better and that like I, had better grades. I always liked science. cause my dad, and I [00:12:00] think those things were cool and interesting and, growing was not allowed to watch a lot of cartoons and stuff.

As soon as a TV existed for me it was only Animal Planet, Nat Geo, History Channel, all these like science stuff. my room growing up was cutouts from magazines of, picture books of animals.

Duncan: Ayman recounts his interest in math and the encouragement he received from a high school professor.

Ayman: honestly I think I became curious in it and I just started working hard before I, had the support of the teacher I was doing well in [00:12:30] it. And, I'm not gonna say like I was doing poorly in school, But Someone gave me some of their time and this person was not like a huge mentor or anything. They weren't like boosting me up in any way. But when I was curious and I wanted to stay behind class briefly to ask questions about a differential equation or this or that, or working through a problem, they would give me the time of day.

And for me, I'm very receptive to that. And that just continued to kind of support that feeling. And I think it was powerful for me to just see that I, [00:13:00] could achieve.

Duncan: So it sounds like that's kind of a turning point already though, is that you're having some sort of mentor figure.

Ayman: Yeah. Someone believed in me.

Chapter 8: College--Engineering and Multiple Wrong Turns

Ayman: Yeah, going to college that was full of a lot of struggle. My dad steered me towards do both engineering and medicine. How could you go wrong? One of them messes up, you're gonna do the other, or you don't do both. And so, clearly like that didn't work out.

Duncan: Well, it sounds your dad set you up and said, just pursue two of the most ambitious things.

Ayman: And for him that was his [00:13:30] conception, engineering and doctor, and like, you know, both seemed great, but he, he didn't have a conception, I think, of what that meant.

Duncan: Wow. So 

then in a strange way, it sounds like in high school there maybe wasn't very specific pressure put on you, but as soon you got to college, they were like 

very,

Ayman: was always 

a vague background pressure, and honestly, more of the pressure was more of if you don't do well, like. We're not gonna be able to send you to college, so you need to do well just for the sake that you can go to college so you can get a scholarship, 

Duncan: I ended up gonna University of Houston. Primarily 'cause of financial reasons. 

Ayman: it was a hard school. [00:14:00] There's a huge number of people and they have a deinflation sort of process for their GPA. So everything is kind of made more intensive. so you have to, perform really Well,

I was living at home. 

I would commute. It was an hour commute to and from, in Houston traffic,I had a lot of existential crises in the car. just waiting, to go to school. first time really kind of exploring different things, different, kind of circles. so that was like exposure to different kind of concepts.

Duncan: Over the next few years. Ayman moved through biomedical engineering, petroleum [00:14:30] engineering, electrical engineering, and eventually a mathematics biology track. Each pivot made with conviction, each one running into some version of the same wall.

His GPA had to remain high for the scholarship and to remain competitive for pre-med. His course load was enormous and nobody was telling him that the way he was doing things was making everything significantly harder than it needed to be.

Ayman: So I started off at biomedical engineering 'cause like, it sounds like a genius idea, you know, like I'm doing pre-med and I might as just do [00:15:00] biomed. Makes sense. No, it doesn't. 

and then I switched really early on, like literally beginning of first year, first semester to petroleum engineering. 'cause I was like, yeah, I mean that seems like it's probably has a future here Houston and makes sense. And then I like took the intro class. 

 and I was like, I hate this. I hate petroleum. I hate the petroleum industry. 

What the hell am I doing? And I stopped going and I switched out of it, and I switched to electrical engineering. ' cause I was like, that's [00:15:30] cool. circuits and all these things, you know, it's actually really interesting. Then I learned it was hard as hell. Like really hard. And now, this is sophomore year, but you know, I've done some basic intro stuff.

So very heavy on the math and engineering stuff. And I had the pre-med stuff kind of very minimally on the side I only did chem one and chem two. But, you know, sophomore year I, walked into the circuits class.

I was like very excited. Like, I thought I was like, made this such a brilliant decision, you know, like, I actually like this. I'm gonna keep doing the pre-med thing. Duh. the first day of the class it's circuits [00:16:00] one, and the professor's like, all right, I'm just gonna start like this.

70% of you are gonna drop the class. You're not even gonna get the chance to fail. You're gonna drop because you're gonna realize that there's no hope for you. You're gonna drop the class Before the second test. I was like, okay. And then he is like, those of you that remain. 60% of you will fail. I was like, am I that bad at math? I can't even calculate what percentage I would fall in. And I need, I need to make an a, I need to make an A in this. If I want to [00:16:30] stay in the pre-med, you know, engineering, they'll run you through the grinder and you'll walk out with a 1.8 GPA and they're like, good job buddy.

You made it. You know, that's not gonna cut it for, for pre-med, you know, and so I, I remember talking to the professor afterwards and I was just like, I was like sitting there, kind of just destroyed. And I was like, Hey, I, I think I, I think I need to drop your class. And he was like, he was very real with me.

He was very respectful and listened. And I ended up dropping it. And then I had to drop the circuit's [00:17:00] lab, and I had to drop other things. But I couldn't drop a lot of things it was, scholarship based, so I had to maintain certain hours and it was too late to enroll in new classes.

Chapter 9: Organic Chemistry and Finally Feeling Something Click

Duncan: By senior year, he'd finally gotten clear of the heavy math sequence and entered the pre-med courses that would actually matter for his application. And then something clicked.

Ayman: I did all the pre-med classes. I loved organic chemistry. It just made sense in a way that like, was different than other things.

It was very kind of mathematical in a way, but it has like a visual component. I really fell in love with that and I was feeling. I [00:17:30] was feeling good. I figured some of these things out. I'm not doing this engineering crap anymore.

 senior year, he finally dropped the math track and switched to biology. This meant cramming a lot of extra classes to graduate on time.

Duncan: What were you thinking in the background? 

So you are marching towards this pre-med thing,

Ayman: Yeah,

Duncan: but it sounds like.

Ayman: a death march,

Duncan: And you did it in the one of the harder ways possible by starting off in all of the engineering,

Chapter 10: Writing the Personal Statement--Finding the Story

Duncan: Were you set on being a doctor at this time, or what did you know about being a

Ayman: No. Yeah, lemme answer that. That's a good question. You [00:18:00] know, so what I had done wasI had played myself so excellently, 

So I had gone too far in the math stuff and I had dropped engineering. And as already, like, you know, sophomore year, so I had to like, figure out a career of something I couldn't completely reroute and I knew I still liked this stuff, so I was kinda left with like medicine, that was like the default.

And so I completed things out of an obligation to like complete and I need, to finish because I don't have infinite funds here to explore and mess around or [00:18:30] take time. And so I, it was more of like a, completionist. And I took the MCAT 

 I 

didn't know what else this would amount to, and in my mind it was just, I had doctor as like, this is the key. I always called it a ticket, you know, it was just a ticket to the next station. and so like for me, I didn't have anything else that, like was drawing me that I could apply this degree for I was so focused on like just really trying to make sure my GPA was good, that I didn't have the, I think the mental bandwidth.

Duncan: He had the MCAT score, he had the grades. He had, the [00:19:00] numbers, but he didn't yet have the answer to a simpler and more unsettling question, did he actually want this? That answer came slowly and somewhat surprisingly when he sat down to write his personal statement.

Ayman: it was not until I was writing my personal statement and applying and interviewing that I was like, you know what, actually this kind of makes sense.

Like I think I have something to offer. Like I think my experience is valuable. Like I went through a lot of hardship. I have seen my family. go through various hardships [00:19:30] quietly not accessing healthcare all of my experiences have culminated and shaped my, perception, like what's important for me.

And I realized like I really wanted to be in a, career or an environment, that allowed me to Know people like allowed me to talk with people. And, I was someone who liked to help people. I liked being able to lend myself, and self-sacrifice in a way.

 and for me it was a really nice combination of, I definitely was a nerd. I definitely had these academic interests, in [00:20:00] physiology and, cellular biology and, these things were interesting to me.

and that in itself was not enough to make a career out of something. But then also introducing the aspect of really wanting to be a healer, someone that can extend themselves to others, but also get to know others. It really made sense, that medicine was something that had potential for me and that's a lot what I emphasize in my, personal statement, my interviews

, I never had any feeling that I was gonna be a doctor, or anything for that matter.

which is a little bit sad in a way. I [00:20:30] had a, you know, a rough childhood and the future did not, materialize in my mind as young person, as a child, you know, I, I was always thinking about today, like I was not thinking about future.

I didn't have a conception of future. I didn't have a conception of identity., For me it was not a continuous process of successes that continue to boost me up and reaffirm that like, you're gonna be a doctor.

For me it was a constant journey of falling and faltering feeling that I, like am I doing the right thing? I'm doing it. 'cause I, think I need to, and [00:21:00] if it doesn't work out, I guess I'll figure that out. and things were working out, lot of hard work, a lot of like sacrifice, It was only until like I was really applying 

And really thinking like, okay, what, do I have to offer? 'cause you know, you, this personal statement business that we do here, is like, kind of a weird thing in my opinion.

, It's like this dehumanizing process in society that we are in, where like a lot of things are numbers and objective and our grades and all these factors, but part of this is gonna be, you write me a heartfelt letter. You know, it just, [00:21:30] it's like, okay, you know, and for me, I was like, well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm actually gonna do that.

I'm gonna be very earnest about that. and I wrote, very much my story, 

Duncan: His mindset going into interviews was the same one that had gotten him this far. Be authentic, share the actual story and don't perform for anyone else's expectations.

Interviewers, as it turned out, had a favorite question,

one that Ayman had clearly thought about more deeply than he had [00:22:00] expected.

Chapter 11: The Interview Question

Ayman: You know, they love that question. What would you do if if you didn't get in?

You know, they love that question. You know, like they, they wanna see like how, you know, the person squirms after, well, of course I'm gonna get in, you know, like, but obviously it's like this,

Indirect personality assessment. So what would you do? but, one of them like framed it,

And I was like, yeah, yeah, I know this question,and he's like, let's just say that God came down and said you'll never, you're never gonna get in.[00:22:30] 

And um, and I said, yeah, I mean my, that's kind of my original plan of like how things were gonna go and I would just find something else that just meets all the things that, matter to me. You know, I it might be teacher, 

It might be part-time bartender, part-time teacher, part-time, you know, to, to meet all the, the needs. But, you know, I would do it and I, I think I would be okay. I think for me growing up, my [00:23:00] dad, and my mom. Emphasize mortality a lot. You know, like a lot, a lot, I think from like a religious perspective,

 that life is not permanent. You know, you will die. And that mortality for me, it's like, I'm gonna die and, I'm gonna do something that I think is meaningful. you know, I grew up poor. I'm not very stressed about the money part. I'm not very stressed about the other things. Ultimately, it'll figure itself out.

You know, if I can't do this, then [00:23:30] whatever, I'm gonna do something else. Like it. It's not, and it still isn't for me. Like right now I'm doing all this, and when I start getting very stressed, I, I think to myself, if I didn't have this tomorrow or something happens to my health or whatever, things are gonna be okay. You know, return to the things that I find important, there's gonna be something. And so that was kinda like my answer, and I think that's always still my answer.

 that's still I think, very grounding for me. Like this mortality we're all going to die and not in a [00:24:00] sad way, but, there's things that speak to us, things that are meaningful.

 I did not come from privilege. I did not come from like a background of even scholarly academic I didn't have a foot in this world, of medicine. You know, I, I didn't know how it worked. I didn't know what it was like.

There was no conception. The good part of that was that, you know, it's hard to really feel, stressed about something I didn't ever have, you know, I didn't need you back then, and I don't need you [00:24:30] now. I'm, I'm hopeful to, to do this. 'cause I think it's, meaningful to me because it's not gonna control me.

Duncan: And I think that was the impression I gave. That answer, grounded less in ambition and more in equanimity. Seems to have made an impression. Haman did well in his interviews and then he was accepted.

Chapter 12: University of Texas Medical Branch

Duncan: so you were getting interviews, which is a great sign. Already your numbers were good. And then where did you, or did you get accepted multiple places? Did you get accepted one place? How did that work out?

Ayman: Yeah. I only applied in [00:25:00] Texas 'cause I didn't think it was realistic to apply outside. Texas has their own ranking system internally. my interview process was like, you know, I'm gonna be, authentic and be very much myself. 

 I felt like I had good interviews. I had good, authentic interviews with people. 

I ended up, going to UTMB, university of Texas Medical Branch has a different name now, in Galveston, Texas, not too far from my parents. It was like I moved out, but I was still close. 

 the vibe there was, a little bit more open. 

Galveston's an [00:25:30] island, so it's kinda like island vibes, you know?

 but, it is still a medical school, still academic institution.

Duncan: was it though, like getting into med school? I mean, did you feel like that was a turning point, that was your ticket onto the train 

Ayman: Yeah, I don't think I ever got on that train necessarily. I think I was still kind of myself and I continued to make my way, my identity.

You know, there's so many different types of people But, I would say a lot of rigidity in terms of like, what, [00:26:00] you know, you're supposed to be, what you're supposed to do.

 so many people with anxiety, depression, obsessive, kind of traits, you know, inability to enjoy anything. there were a lot of people that, that weren't like that. and, I think, finding the right crowd, finding people that had experiences that, were not necessarily privileged.

one of the starting lectures in medical school, they were like, if you have a parent, who's a doctor, raise your hand.

And I was like, I'm [00:26:30] sure it's not that many. Literally like at least three fourth of the entire room, you know, raised their hand. And I was like, all right. You know, I had a feeling and it very much confirmed it. And I've heard a lot of people have a similar experience at their schools, the more prestigious, the school.

I think the more so that is.

Chapter 143: Outro and Preview of Part 2

Ayman: Ayman Youssef had gotten into medical school. He had the ticket, he was on the island. But medicine, as he was about to discover, has a way of resetting the clock on belonging, even when you've earned your place at the table.

 The table turns out to be [00:27:00] full of people for whom that place was never in question. In part two. Ayman takes us through medical school a summer in Amman, working with Palestinian refugees, a match that didn't go quite the way he planned and why he's grateful for it.

And we get into what he's learned the hard way about mentorship information and what it actually takes to find your people in a system that wasn't built with you in mind.

And if you didn't get your reality and ego checked before, it's gonna get checked now. I was on a high of like, things are going well and [00:27:30] then I came like, and I was like, again, a nobody. And definitely like amongst nobodies, I was definitely not the top of the nobodies. and it felt like, again, okay, I gotta figure out what I want. 

 That's next time on the Ethno Med Podcast. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might be on their own version of this road. And if you wanna learn more about the communities and clinicians at the heart of this work, visit ethnomed.org.

I'm Duncan Reid. Thanks for listening.

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