They Said "You Need A Psych Ward" I Laughed. | Julie Goodwin | Ep 102

Winning MasterChef was meant to be the start of a dream life, but instead, it became the precursor to a quiet, devastating undoing. Julie Goodwin, the show’s first-ever winner, takes us behind the curtain of reality TV fame to share the raw, unfiltered reality of what happens when the cameras stop rolling and the isolation truly sets in.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call or text 988 in the US and Canada, call 116 123 in the UK, or call 13 11 14 in Australia.

This conversation isn't just about the pressure of the spotlight; it’s a deeply honest look at the path to a mental health collapse and the long, non-linear journey of recovery that followed. Julie speaks candidly about multiple hospitalizations, the danger of mistaking "being busy" for "being okay," and the vital importance of removing the stigma surrounding treatment for severe depression and anxiety. We explore why she rejects prescriptive self-help and instead urges listeners to cultivate genuine self-awareness, pay attention to the early warning signs their bodies are screaming, and recognize that mental well-being requires consistent maintenance, not just a one-time fix. From the foundational necessity of sleep to the power of surrendering to professional care, Julie’s story is a powerful reminder that our value isn’t tied to our output, and seeking help is not a failure—it is the ultimate act of courage.

GUEST link:  https://shithappy.com/they-said-you-need-the-psych-ward-i-laughed-julie-goodwin-ep-102/
Links To Love (newsletter +++): https://shithappy.com/resources/
For laughs check out our other Youtube @inbedwithphil


00:00 [MasterChef Expectations vs. Reality]
01:39 [The Reality of Isolation]
08:57 [Post-Show Whirlwind & Burnout]
11:58 [The Collapse]
14:52 [The Decision to Seek Hospitalization]
16:01 [Dispelling Myths About Mental Hospitals]
22:34 [Challenging Mental Health Stigma]
25:15 [The Perfectionism Trap in Recovery]
28:21 [The Non-Linear Path of Healing]
34:30 [The Vital Importance of Sleep]


#shithappypodcast #mentalhealthawareness #masterchefau #juliegoodwin #recoveryjourney

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

And uh I laughed. I just said that that that is obviously not going to happen.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Um Julie Goodwin won the very first Australian Master Chef, she went from a complete unknown to a household name in a matter of weeks. Eventually the enormous pressure of instant fame led to a breakdown. Today Julie generously shares a story that very few people are willing to share. Quick heads up, topics on this channel can be a little challenging. Links to help and any other links you might need are in the description.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

I think um we're we're all sort of the result of things that happened to us throughout throughout our lives. Obviously, um going on MasterChef put me into a more public position than I had ever been in before, and um and so everything that happened after that was you know played out in a bit of a public arena. You know, MasterChef season one, Australia, happened 17 years ago, which I still blows my mind a bit. Um was prior to going on. I was um working in my small business with my husband. I had three little boys when I applied that all three room primary school. I used to love to cook, so I loved to cook for my friends on the weekend, and I cooked every night for my family, you know, and that was just my creative outlet.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh, what what did you think you were applying to?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Uh uh well, I'd been watching the UK version of MasterChef, which is a very civilised sort of a uh cooking competition, and that's kind of thoug what I thought I was I was getting myself in for was something like so I was watching people sort of turn up as home cooks and learn a few things and have some fun experiences. Um, you know, it I think it went for six weeks those seasons, and they would go home at night and all that sort of stuff, and that's kind of what I thought I was getting myself in for. I didn't realise that the um Australian production company had bought the rights to sort of the name and the logo, but they changed the format completely into a much sort of more hectic format. And so, yeah, I don't think anybody really understood that this cooking show was going to um grab the viewing audience the way it did.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

And what was different about the physicality of doing this show once you were selected? What what was unexpected?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Oh gosh, uh everything was unexpected. I I didn't find out until I was down to about the top thirty-six or thirty-seven out of seven and a half thousand people that if I wanted to compete, I would have to live out of home. Um, I would have to go and stay in a house and be separate from my family, you know. And it actually wasn't until I moved into that house with the 19 other, you know, um contenders that I learned that they they would take our phones away and keys and wallets and computers, and we were actually going to be in lockdown and isolated um from our families and and from our lives, really. You know, like I kind of had this idea that I'd, you know, film during the day, and once I learned I'd be living out of home, I thought, oh well, at least I can get onto my computer at night and and get some of my work done and and you know, talk to the boys, talk to Mick and all that sort of stuff. But it was a fully immersive experience, which it needed to be. I mean, it I I couldn't have done those things even if I'd been given my computer because the days were long and all of that sort of stuff, but we were very much um isolated. It's changed now. It's not a um it's not like that anymore. I think they've they understand that just creating all that external stress isn't necessary because the cooking is quite stressful enough.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

So you're locked up in a house for how many weeks were you there?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Uh I was away from home for about five months. Five months? Yeah. Wow. Yep. It's it was on air for twelve weeks, but it took longer than that to film.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So you don't step out of the house until the show has aired.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Uh yeah. So what happened was we were filming for about six weeks when it started on air. And again, it's different now. They film it, they wrap it, it's in the can, and later it comes onto air all to get us so everyone's back home. But um, about six weeks into filming, so I remember we went away into the house um in February, and it was the Easter long weekend of 2009 that it started on air. So um it started on air, and we were we were still in lockdown. We did see newspapers every now and again, but we didn't have time to watch TV or anything like that. We were filming until sort of night and then interview doing the little interviews and stuff like that. So very long days and quite unaware really of what was going on in the outside world. And nothing much was going on in the outside world until it was sort of gaining momentum and gaining momentum. We didn't really know the extent of it um at that stage.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

So the producers weren't coming back to you going, oh, it's really taking off or anything?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

No, they uh there was very much the idea of sort of um keeping us in this bubble. And it's been explained to me since then that they actually do that, I think, with a lot of reality TV shows, is they try and keep um the responses from the contestants because if the contestants see themselves on screen or understand what's happening as they're being viewed, that they might change their authentic behaviour. And they didn't want that, they wanted us to just be our authentic selves.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

So at what time did you realise you were suddenly famous?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

I there was one moment, and it was while I was still on the show, and it was getting sort of we're getting towards the pointy end of it, and they took us out of the kitchen for a day to do some publicity. So we went and did um it was like a a glamour shot for a magazine, and they they dressed us all up and they did hair and makeup and all that sort of stuff. And I had literally never had my makeup done professionally before I went on Master Chef. I did my own wedding makeup. I've I had never had my makeup done professionally, so that was all quite a strange sort of experience for me to be sat there and had my hair sort of fussed over and different outfits tried on and all that sort of stuff. And as we're leaving that photo shoot, so that that was kind of oh gosh, this is this is weird, you know. Um leaving the photo shoot that day, I was walking down the street with some of the other contestants and I hear this voice go, Jolly! Like this, and I turned around and there was a road crew, these big burly blokes, big beards, high viers, you know, and they just go, Jolly! What is happening? Uh, and that was the first moment where I thought, oh gosh, this is people are watching this TV show. So it was a very surreal moment for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

If you'd like another even to smile every month, sign up to my Time to Smile newsletter. Find it in the show. Um, so you walk out of the show at the end of it, having had a little glimpse that there was some attention, but no one's really got a big idea of just how a perfectly MasterChif landed in Australia and how hungry the audience here was for it.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, I mean, uh towards the end we knew because the you know, we were getting the newspapers in in the morning and it was on the front page like over and over again. It's like, what? This is a TV show. Well what's happening in the world, you know? Um so we we had an idea towards the end that it was very popular, and of course, even though we couldn't um we we were allowed two phone calls home a week, so you know, I would hear from from Mick and from the boys, you know, the teachers at school are looking in my lunchbox and all that sort of stuff. Um, and you know, uh they would tell me like the the schools around the central coast were a beautiful um uh region, the central coast. We always get behind the people who are doing this sort of stuff, and so you know, the the signs that the schools put up all had support messages and stuff like that. So we we did have it definitely had a an idea by the end that um that it people were swept up in it a little bit. Um and we were able to receive letters as well, so I was getting you know written letters, very old school, but I loved those letters and photos and things that people were sending me. Um so we we had an idea by the end, um, but really um I had no concept of what it how it was gonna change my life.

unknown 9:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Were were was there any uh like debrief, was there any media training? Was there anything to help you uh as you stepped out of this bubble?

SPEAKER_01 9:16

No. No, it not back then. Not back then. You know, again, nowadays it's a different production. I think um there's a lot more knowledge and awareness around, you know, workplace practices and acknowledging that that is a workplace. Um there's a lot more um concern about contestant welfare and um mental health and all those sorts of things. But back then it was, you know, uh you we were just sort of sent off into the new world.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

It's amazing. Uh so what happened? You come home and what happens?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Oh, after I left MasterChef, uh it was a whirlwind. It was amazing. Um, there was a lot of stuff going on for me behind the scenes. My my beautiful Nan and my mother-in-law both passed away very shortly after that finale went to air. So I was dealing with, you know, grief and the grief of my children, my family, um, at that time. But at the same time, I was, you know, offered a a role with Women's Weekly as a columnist, which, you know, the the biggest magazine food title in Australia at the time and iconic, you know. So to receive that invitation was blew my mind. Um I, you know, I ended up on the Today Show as their resident cook. I had a cookbook I had to write, I was doing appearances and endorsements and travel and all sorts of stuff was going on. Um so life became very, very busy in a whole new way, you know. Um I was no longer working in my family business. Obviously, I didn't have the time for that. Um, I was all over the shop. It w and it was amazing. And the experiences and the opportunities and sort of the travel and the people I got to introduce my kids to, you know, um the the things that I could do for them all were absolutely just it was it was beautiful in its in its way. It was really uh really special and I've actually never in the whole time stopped being grateful for all the amazing experiences and opportunities that that TV show brought to my family.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah. I imagine it also brought some internal conflict because you're a mum and you've got these little boys who need you, and yet you've got this other whole world suddenly happening that must have been very disruptive to the pattern you'd previously had.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, it w it was a a complete change, and you know, I I think that mums, no matter what we do, no matter what we want to get involved in, what line of work we take up, there's you know, there's that guilt there. What if I'm not giving enough to my family? Um But the the reality was that um I was I ended up and you know as years went by and I took on more and I was frightened to say no to things because I thought you know my opportunities would all dry up. Uh life did become very unbalanced and um I I wasn't there was I mean I don't even know what self-care meant. I didn't know what slowing down meant. I I thought if I if I pass up any of these opportunities this whole thing's gonna disappear. So I've got to make hay while the sun shines, I've got to keep going, keep pushing, and um, you know, that added on to um the the you know the other things that had sort of plagued me throughout my life. Uh it just all resulted in a bit of a collapse.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So tell tell me about the collapse. What what were the first signs that you were having issues you weren't addressing?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Oh look, I think um I think the mental mental signs I heavily ignored, you know, uh things like just a a loss of motivation, a loss of joy, um and those those signs started to become very physical. Um I've I was tired all of the time. I cried a lot. Um and then when I didn't pay any attention to those signs and symptoms, it started to get even more like just actual physical illness. So my guts are in a turmoil, and I got a constantly ulcerated mouth and sores on my head, and I had shakes and I had tinnitus and I had dizzy spells, and I had um oh just a litany, you know, rashes, just a litany of conditions that no doctor could figure out where it was coming from, um, until a doctor sort of finally said to me, You've you know, you've got um severe depression and severe generalized anxiety disorder and we need to sort this out. And uh that's when I sort of thought, okay, maybe I'll need to start listening to people.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah. So what were your first steps to get some help?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Uh look, I didn't really take many steps at all. I went and saw a GP when I was finding it actually physically difficult to do the work that I needed to do, and at this point I was on the radio doing breakfast radio, which is a very brutal early start, and also running my cooking school, which um between those two full-time jobs I was working seven days a week and from very early in the morning till very late at night. So, and I was finding myself sort of physically incapable of continuing the routine, and so I ended up at my GP who diagnosed me with depression and put me on an antidepressant, that was it, that was all I did. And um that antidepressant worked for me for six months and then it stopped, and when it stopped, it stopped like hard, it just stopped working, and I was right back to square one. And I thought, oh well, that was pointless and just carried on. And so I didn't really ask for help and I reached a critical point um where I, you know, the dark sorts became the primary ones, and you know, I found myself right on the precipice, and that was when my husband said that that's would I can't handle this, we need to get some help. And he he took me to hospital.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

And did you end up s staying in hospital?

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yeah, I'll never forget. I'll never forget being in this hospital, um seeing the um acute care team, the mental health team, and then they sort of sent me home and came out to see me at home, and then they put me into a psychiatrist, and he said you need to be an inpatient in a in a psych unit. And I laughed. I just said that that that is obviously not going to happen. Um you know, this was during the Christmas break of radio. I said, I'm back on air in uh in a few days and I've got clients coming to my kitchen, so you know, next suggestion please. And and he just said, I I think you need to be an inpatient. And I looked over to Mick, my husband, who was sitting there, like with this sort of incredulous sort of laughter going, uh, you know, I tell him and he just looked at me and he said, It sounds right to me. And that shocked me. And uh and that's that's where I went.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

And how did that feel like knowing I am now going to be uh here for a while? What what does that feel like?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Oh, it's not it's not any little girl's dream for when she grows up, is it? It wasn't on my uh my wish list or my bingo card or any of those things. I was absolutely shell-shocked to find myself um in a in a a mental hospital. I was got like I literally couldn't believe it. It felt absolutely surreal and you know, I've I was in a a complete daze for quite a while. And um, yeah, my first stay was six weeks, and over the next two years I had five hospitalizations in four different institutions just to try and get things straightened out.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

With that first one, was it terrifying?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean my only real understanding of what that kind of place was like I'd gotten from the midday movie, you know, when I was a kid, you know, and so I didn't know what kind of characters I might be meeting and that. And you know, what I learned was that the kind of characters I would be meeting were people like me, you know, ordinary people who had found themselves um in a position where they just needed some support to, you know, f refine their joy or get their life back on track, get their their head on straight. You know, people who just wanted to be able to live their best lives. That's it that's what I learned. Um so it wasn't scary for long. It wasn't scary for long because I I looked around and just I was looking in a mirror everywhere I looked.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Yeah. So the idea of going there and being in there initially was scary, but in general it wasn't a scary experience, no.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

No. I mean it was confronting. There were lots and lots of confronting things that happened, and that's what happens when you start to uh look into why things have why the wheels have fallen off, you know. You've got to confront some stuff. And you know, over the past several years since all of this happened, which was, you know, the end of 2019, start of 2020, um in the in the years since I've had to confront some things that have been really, really devastating to confront. But you know, you come out the other side better off. So it's n it's not a scary place. And and what I actually learned was that it can be a preventative measure. It doesn't have to be where you go at the end of your rope. You can actually just be recognising that you're hanging onto the rope at the top of the well and go, Okay, I might need some extra support right now. And what what's life like?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

What were those six weeks like? What happened in there? So because I too only have a movie.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah. Well, at first until you get sort of you get your head wrapped around where you are and that they you know, there's a lot of taking of your stouts and all the sort of stuff you would expect in a hospital. Um sedation if you need it, um, re-jigging of, you know, you see a psychiatrist and they sort of look at what medication you're on and whether or not that's still working for you, um, or if you need any medication at all. There's a lot of group work. So you sit in group, which, you know, I did not want to do, but you're required to do it. And yeah, so and and a lot of downtime, and I think one of the most striking things for me about being in there was that there was no responsibility. So the only thing I was responsible for was turning up in the morning to check in with everybody and turning up to these sessions, and then you know, you got to choose whether you went and did the morning walk or whether you went and and and I actually had decided that I had run things into the ground so severely um that I just needed to surrender to the process, and I just thought I am not gonna question this. Some of it feels so supremely dumb, and some of it feels so um outrageously ineffective, and some of it feels wildly, you know, outside my comfort zone, but I'm not gonna question this now. I'm just gonna surrender to the process because I have got it so wrong that maybe I need to just flick that switch completely and let somebody else step in and take over. So I did what I was told. Um, I ate what I was given, um, I went where I needed to, I took the opportunities that were handed to me. Um, I rediscovered a joy for swimming, which I had forgotten. I used to love to swim and I rediscovered that, and so I was allowed to go down to the local aquatic center and and swim laps, which I did as often as I could. I rediscovered um a joy for art and even though my resources were limited inside there, you know, nothing sharp and all that, um I determined that I would reintroduce that into my life when I got out. Um yeah, I I just surrendered to the process and got sort of s sort of washed along with it. And it's only as I became more well and have gotten stronger that I am back to saying, well that sounds like something that will benefit me and that that was a bit high in the sky for my liking. You know I've become a bit more discerning about what I do and don't do and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, it it's a confronting thing but you know I think a and a big part of the reason why I chose to speak about this whole thing is because so many people in there carried a lot of shame about the fact that they'd ended up there and a lot of them were there for their umpenth time. I mean a lot of them needed repeat treatments that kept them going back but they just carried all this shame. There were people there who were pretending that they were going on holidays every time they went in so their neighbours didn't know and and I just thought this this can't be if this is the answer for some people it can't be something that you feel ashamed of. It's got to be I'm here actually trying to create a better life and if I if I'm well I'm creating a better life for everybody who loves me as well. This whole idea of the movie that the movies have given us about what what it's like to be put into a hospital to get your head sorted out I think we need to equate it more with being put into hospital to have surgery on your knees than you know than in one flew over the cookie's nest where you're going to get a lobotomy. You know it's just not that it's just not that. It's a health condition that needs to be dealt with in the same way as any physical illness.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yes that's exactly why I wanted to interview you because I've been interviewing people about mental health for a long time but but I've also been working in the space for a long time and you're the first person I've heard willing to embrace talking about that experience openly and I realize wow this is a big issue that I we struggle to own and to share about and I think it is so incredibly important. So in that first six weeks what shifted there you've come back to loving a couple of things that were missing. What else shifted and then what happened when you went home?

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Well I was told all the things that I ought to do to be well and I took them on board as I said I'd surrendered to this process and I you know I knew it was nutrition it was exercise it was you know time um time in nature time off work I I had to make the decision to leave my radio program so I've resigned um and my cooking school was being run by my beautiful two I see my colleague so I was very lucky that I had her to sort of step in and and keep all the commitments that I had. So what I did and they said you know you need to schedule all these things. So what I did is I took the personality traits that ended up getting me in trouble like perfectionism and people pleasing and I poured it all into this new schedule and I had my day scheduled and I had everything written down and I followed it to the letter and I did everything to an absolute T and I was it was perfect. I thought I'm gonna be the best mental patient they ever saw. And a couple of months later I was right back at square one. I was unwell I was you know sick um and I went back to hospital and I was furious and I'll never forget swapping down my schedule on the desk and just saying well this was bullshit I need better drugs or I need better doctors. Which is it? Kind of pointed out to me that I might have um might have overdone it a bit that I might have taken all the forces that drove me into the ground the first time and then applied them to my new mental health routine and that perhaps that wasn't the best way to go about it. And so you know it really that that stay in hospital was not the cure. It was not the cure. It was just a catalyst for a lot of other work that needed to happen and you know I've since had to figure out why I felt it so necessary to always be at the top of everything I ever did and why I always so competitive why I cannot stand to let people down or make anyone disappointed why I can't get anything wrong and the the inner critic is so vitriolic you know um so I've had to address all of those things and that has taken years and I'm still undergoing that work you know I still do that stuff I still see um I still see my therapist I still you know I'm still doing all the things that I need to do but I'm learning how to do them in a way that heals me rather than breaks me. You know so you know that and that is one of my biggest learnings about this whole thing is that back then and this is where it differs from a knee surgery or a broken leg or you know this is where it differs. You don't put a plaster cast on your brain and take it off in six weeks and it's better. It is actually an ongoing thing. So um in that sense it's not a straight line it doesn't go from A to B. There's not a set number of steps you take and then bingo you're cured it's actually um it's more like a car you know where you you can't just put petrol in at once and it runs forever. You can't just change the oil on it once and it runs forever. It needs servicing it needs maintenance you've got to wash it you know if you want to be comfortable in it you've got to tidy out the console every now and again and the footwells you know and declutter it and you've got to you know give it the fuel that it needs you can't just put water in the tank it's got to it's it needs to be serviced and maintained. That's what your brain is that's what your body is and those things are intricately intricately connected in a way that we can't cannot separate you can't abuse your body and expect your brain to be okay you cannot abuse your brain and expect your body to just deal with it either and I learnt that in such a visceral way through this whole thing. But yeah that's that's the other thing is that I wish I knew before I started down this path is that it is not going to have a finish line and it is not going to be a straight path where you can see the ending from where you begin. It's circuitous you it takes you back it loops there's all sorts of rocks in your path um but if you just trust that it's taking you to a better place then you just stay on that path. Yeah because this is there's stuff as you're going down this journey for myself it's like hang on I I dealt with this I dealt with this and then it's like no only a bit and sometimes and sometimes I'll be speaking to to Heather who's my psychologist uh and I'll be halfway through what I'm saying to her and I'll be like oh god I can hear it I can hear it let me let me say what you're gonna say next and it sometimes you just need that reminder you know it's like I don't know it's like being in business and going on a conference. It's not that anyone's giving you this brand new inspiration and information. It's like oh that's right the last time I came on a conference I was going to do those things. Thank you for the reminder. Thank you for the little energy boost that I needed to get back in and try that stuff again and try that stuff again and try it again and try it again until it sticks.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah because we're not living in a world that reinforces those things that we need generally are we?

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah I don't know I think I think the world we live in now reinforces whatever our algorithm feeds us. Yeah and you know I think we need to be pretty cautious about what we allow into that feed because there's very few of us that aren't being fed you know you talk about self-fulfilling prophecies well that happens in very real time on social media and I I f and it's rapid man it is rapid. As soon as you spend a little bit longer delving into a subject all of a sudden it's all you see. So I would suggest that we get off those things and out into the real world. Yeah you know frequently frequently yeah but it certainly keeps you honest when you've when you're talking to other people about you know what they ought to do and I've I've I've never really wanted to be prescriptive to anybody and I you know and I'm still very careful when I speak to to say these are the things that have helped me what you need is to find the things that will help you and that this is why I've never named any of the medications that I've been on because some of them stopped working and I don't but I don't want to turn anyone off that medication because that it may be the thing that helps you. I I don't want to say you have to do A, B, and C, you have to consume this and you have to stop consuming that and you have to you know do these exact things because we are all different we're all different ages different stages different capabilities like I even to say you know you need to move your body for this long every day well when I had three children under three and my husband was commuting to Sydney and I didn't see him for 12 hours every day if someone had said to me you've just got to find 20 minutes we're like I haven't got out of my pyjamas yet today when am I going to find 20 minutes where I can leave those three unsupervised you know so I'm really careful about being prescriptive because it's not fair it's not fair to do that. And we don't all have the same 24 hours and we don't all have the same physical capabilities and I find myself at this moment and I'm grateful and I'm conscious of it in what is really a golden era. So my children are grown they still need me enough for me to feel needed but they don't need me physically every single minute of every single day like they did when they were babies. My parents are independently living and healthy and wonderful so I am not a carer for for them either. So I am experiencing a period of freedom in my life like I haven't before and I probably never will again I am of the physical health that allows me to get out and do the things that I need to do for my mental health. I am privileged enough to be able to afford a gym membership to be able to afford ongoing mental health support. Not everyone has that and that is a problem that needs to be addressed you know we're we're luckier in this country than some others are but there's still a massive gap in those services and it needs to be dealt with in the same way as a lot of other ailments and and issues are so I I I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone what they should do because we have our own period of life that we're in that we need to fit things around that. What I would say to anyone and it doesn't sort of matter where you are in your life is to please pay attention to what's going on in your own body in your own mind you know if you're losing joy for things you used to love if you're feeling like it's harder and harder to get out of bed if you're waking up with no reason to feel excited day after day after day after day like some days you're not going to feel excited but more days than not you need to wake up looking forward to something about your day. If you're at a point where you are not looking forward to facing anything pay attention to that. Get curious about that if you are questioning yourself about you know why do I have to keep doing this job every day why can't I go to sleep unless I have a drink? Why can't if you're get curious about those things, explore them a little bit. If you have weird physical stuff going on that the doctors can't explain weird and it it could be any kind of weird gut problems, you know issues with your with pain, weird pains that they can't explain um get curious about it and start taking a holistic view of it. Some of that that's stress actually can cause so many symptoms, you know get curious about it. Go see your doctor, find out if it is hormonal, find out if it is mental health, find out if it is stress related, find out if it is a purely physical thing that one little adjustment in your life might fix. You know, just get curious about changes in your life and maybe you'll head off some of the disastrous crap that I had to go through before I started to get better.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah is there one thing that you found particularly useful for you?

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Yeah look I think that um I think that probably the first pillar of health mental and physical that I think we all can relate to is sleep. Yeah and I actually it's one of the first things that gets disrupted when you're unwell and it's one of the things that there are so many little tiny things you can do to start down the road of improving that and that until your sleep is is okay everything else is harder. So you know again there's no silver bullet there's no one thing nothing works in isolation but if your sleep is crappy everything else is harder. It's harder to get out of bed it's harder to exercise it's harder to make good decisions when your mind is exhausted everything is harder. So I would say it is one of the almost the easiest things to start to fix because I think that there's nobody on earth who does everything perfectly when it comes to bedtime but there are lots of things you can do to turn that into a ritual that becomes really healing and soothing and that um increases the quality of your sleep um so I would say if you were to focus on one thing maybe try getting that one thing and that that doesn't have to be an overwhelming amount of changes all in one day. It might be as simple as set one bedtime it might be as simple as you know put the phone down an hour prior to bed. It might be you know um taking a a melatonin supplement as the sun goes down. Just one little thing that you can do you know it might be switching out the glass of wine at bedtime for a a herbal tea just changing the routine changing the ritual I have a ritual and I love my ritual now it might be fold your clothes up put your clothes away before you go to bed so that when you wake up you're not waking up to stuff on the floor. Whatever whatever it is there's a thousand little things you can do. Put a meditation on I've got headphones I put a meditation on in my ears and I promise you I've never heard the end of a single one of them because they work. They really work um and you know there's all this stuff that can improve your sleep and a a thousand more things. So that that I think would be maybe the first thing to address if you're starting to feel off kilter.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

If you're more off kilter is go and get help, go talk to a doctor Yeah yeah I think I um realized sleep was an issue for me quite early on and I'd start I started writing all the things that were bothering me that was down and that would help with getting to sleep was to get some of them out of my brain.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah. Turning your brain off the track it gets on I think can be really key. That that's that's what I needed to do because and it's not even necessarily worries. It's just stuff and just little little train goes zoom zoom zoom zoom round the track and I've got to derail it to get back to sleep. And so sometimes and it's it's not the same every night sometimes that is a meditation like Yoga Nidra where you've got to tense your pinky toe muscle and relax it then tense your arch of your foot and then relax and if it just gets your head oh God how do I do my arch of my foot on its own and you're thinking about that, you know and again I've never made it all the way to my head because it or it might be um a story you know there's bedtime stories there's there's I I for me just um white noise or whatever doesn't work because I can think through white noise. I can think through gentle relaxing music I can think through frogs. I've just got frogs in the background of the train going round around the track. But if I need to follow a story or follow instructions um that can get my head right out of what I was worried about. And again I barely ever get to the end of it because that's just short circuits that thing.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah I read a book on the power of words and so I started wondering would certain words help you sleep? So I did a bit of experiment and just said a whole bunch of kind of positive words that were unrelated and fell asleep really quickly. So I told my daughter about it and she went and googled it and found out it's something called cognitive reshuffling. And it's used in the military and it doesn't need to be positive words. It just needs to be any words that you just say randomly and it just shuts it all off because there's no connection.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah okay so I found that to be very shuffling I love all that stuff