Sticky Notes
Ever wondered what it's actually like to build a fitness business from the ground up? Meet Rosie and Leila, two Pilates instructors who crossed paths at a London studio and discovered a shared vision that was too powerful to ignore.
This podcast—Sticky Notes—is our real-time chronicle of building something from nothing. We're relatively new teachers stepping into entrepreneurship, balancing Rosie's big-picture dreaming with Leila's pragmatic planning. We're challenging fitness industry norms, particularly the narrow concept of a "Pilates body," and creating spaces where everyone feels welcome regardless of how they look.
Join us weekly as we document every decision, meeting, and milestone. Whether you're interested in Pilates, entrepreneurship, or simply enjoy witnessing the unfiltered journey of two women betting on themselves and their vision—we're glad you're here for the ride.
Sticky Notes
How We Let Go, Start Over, And Turn A Scary Move Into Purpose (Ep. 13)
The hardest part of moving? It's not the boxes. It's figuring out which parts of yourself don't make the trip.
We're swapping notes on what it was like to leave London—the goodbyes that stretch on forever, and how a student strike almost killed my visa but ended up giving me an extra month that completely changed everything. Rosie landed in Utah, and Leila in Riyadh. The girls quickly dive into the realities of working in the Middle East: sponsorship rules, why company control in the Gulf can box you in, and just... life.
Then we talk about what it actually takes to build a life from scratch.
Freelance freedom is great until you realise how much you miss those random co-worker moments. A quiet studio is perfect for work, but it doesn't always fill you up, you know? So we get into how you find your people on purpose—5 a.m. run clubs, working from coffee shops, classes that feel like gathering spaces.
We also get into something bigger: Leila's dreams of creating space in the Middle East for women to run, lift, do HIIT, and still have access to classical Pilates. It's not about throwing out the method—it's about expanding what strength looks like and who gets to be strong.
And we pull back the curtain on Honeycomb Studios. Why we kept pricing simple, why there's a small paywall (to protect people's time, honestly), and what we're actually building: an oral history archive, real cross-studio learning, fewer gatekeepers in classical Pilates.
If you're moving, trying to balance love and work, or just trying to find your people in a new place—this one's for you. And if it lands, we'd love it if you could follow the show, share it with someone who needs to hear it, and leave a review. Your feedback literally shapes what we do next.
How are you feeling? How's it going? Good. It's so fun to speak to you multiple days in a row. We went a couple weeks now, or like a couple like maybe weeks, like week to a week without speaking. And now I'm like, yay, good to chat to you.
SPEAKER_05:Um it's been really crazy basically since whatever that Friday was, almost three weeks. It's been really hectic.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, how's it been three weeks? Yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:It has been almost. I think I blinked because it was like my last two weeks in London, and I blinked, and then now I'm like, whoa.
SPEAKER_05:How was the last two weeks?
SPEAKER_03:Um, good. Oh, should we get into or are we getting this is us catch up? Oh yeah, let's get it now.
SPEAKER_04:What episode is it? This is a double check. 12?
SPEAKER_01:12 last episode of Sarah. Oh my god, last time was when you were in London. Oh, this is 13.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, Sarah was 12. This is 13.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:10.
SPEAKER_05:Oh yeah. Lucky number 13. Lucky 13. I will take it. Um, yeah, we just have had a hectic time, so this is like a catch-up, drive-by catch-up session.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:We're now both in our other location.
SPEAKER_03:Where are you? Yeah, we're our time zones are now really wow. Oh my god. I so I'm in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia. So for me, it is currently 7 12 p.m. Rosie's in still in Utah or is in Utah right now.
SPEAKER_05:9 12 a.m.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So I'm ending my day. Yours is just starting, which is wild.
SPEAKER_05:And then we were talking, we were looking at like our future interviews and stuff, and people are in London. There's someone in Australia, and I have to do it. The Australia one really gets to be. That one's gonna be wild. But I actually think this difference between you and I now. Oh, Putney's trying to come in. No, Putney, that's not cute. Okay, she just wanted to show me her bone. Okay, go take it away now. Go take it away. Um, I actually think that this time difference is not bad.
SPEAKER_03:I think I prefer it to the London one because it's like I think we're kind of singing yesterday where it's like start like it's almost about 12 hours, so it's like you can be like either the start or the end of the day. Where when it was London, it was sort of it will always be the middle of someone's day and then the end or start of someone's day. So it was a little bit more difficult, it's just a bit tricky.
SPEAKER_05:We have to do like mid-afternoon, like for you, kind of it just wasn't super convenient. Um, but how how was your last like I want to hear about the last time in London? Because I remember for me I just felt so I don't know. I felt very ready to just go because I didn't know how I would feel when I actually left, and I was kind of afraid of that feeling.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting. It was there was that element of like it got to the point where I was almost just like because I was doing quite a few like sort of farewell dinners with different friend groups in different parts of life, I was like, it almost felt like I was dragging on the goodbye, and I was like, okay, I just need to leave. Like, let me leave and start to get over the feeling of being sad, but obviously out at the same time, I was like, I want to enjoy every last moment. Um, and I didn't want the time to go by quickly, so it was that weird dichotomy between those two things where I was like ready, starting to feel ready to go in that like the house was being packed. I was like, okay, I want to start that next stage so I can start to get over this stage, but I was like, I need to enjoy the stage like to its max. Um, and I was trying to be really present in every moment. I'll be like, okay, this could be the last time I'm in this place, or like there was a couple of studios where it's like I'm un even if I were to go to London, I'm never gonna be teaching or in that studio again. And I think that idea of like physical permanence and like, oh, I'm never going to stand in this space again was kind of like throwing me a bit. Um, but I was trying like with all like friends and just like moments to really live in the moment and like really try to like take mental snapshots of things and just like enjoy it, go on like as many walks as I could to really like enjoy London as much as possible. Um and then I think I almost like shut it down a little bit, like I almost disassociated that I was leaving because I just I would like say goodbye to people and like not really cry about it. And I'm a big crier, I'm like every emotion, or like the second I get oh like if I'm not at baseline, I'm probably crying because I'm happy or sad, like or overwhelmed or like stressed. So it's like I'm the one where it's like the movie starts to go one way, or like I get I just get overwhelmed and then just tears start leaking out of my eyes, and I'm like, oh my god. Um so like a lot of people when I'm crying, they're like, oh, it's just another like that's a normal reaction for me. Yeah. So I had like I really wasn't tearful at all. Like I wasn't crying about saying goodbye to people who like I am very sad to leave. I just have almost like blocked that out. And it was kind of similar to when I was leaving um like my hometown for like uni and like to go to London. I remember saying goodbye to my best friend and like being a bit sad, but like I didn't cry about it then, even though like we then have now gone on to live in separate countries for like the first Ebola and for the last five years. But I think it was almost the same thing where like I shut down the fact that I was like leaving the place that I had grown up in because I actually don't even live there anymore, like go back to visit it. And at the time I don't think I processed it, and I think my brain was almost like you can't process it, like she's like you're not stable enough to do that, like just get through it and like shut down, kind of. So I think that's what my brain did because I don't think it's I've processed that I'm no longer living in London. Um, I I was telling everyone, I think the next time I come to visit is when I'll really process it because then I'll be like, Oh, I'm just visiting and I'm a tourist rather than like being a local, or like we'll just take a couple months.
SPEAKER_05:Like going because I feel just because it's so like it's so big and so international, it does feel so nice to go back and be like, Okay, I actually have my spots here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, to almost like because it can be very overwhelming, like there's so much you can do in the city. Um and it's like a lot of the touristy spots, like that is never what I will will miss, or like the restaurants. It's like it's the people and the community or like the life I created, and in a way, that's also the hardest part because even if you go back to visit, that will never be the same, or like in general, like communities evolve and change, so it will never be the exact snapshot of time that it was in that like year that I lived it, which is like I think that is the weirder part to me. Um, but also makes it easier to really oh no, you're good.
SPEAKER_05:I was just gonna say it um Sarah and I talk about this all the time because she had a really beautiful several years in Germany, and there've been times where we've both like reflected on previous places we've been and just been like, man, it would be so great to like there's been moments where you've kind of fantasized about being back in those places, but she I think she was the first person who like said this to me, and I was like, Oh, yeah, it's so true. She's just like it won't ever be that way. Like that was the time in a capsule, and you can't get away from that, like you're you just won't which makes it more beautiful as well. Yeah, yeah, it there's something really like sweet about it. But we just went to a wedding in California with and a bunch of like rowing people from London were there. Um, and one of my friends was talking about like wanting to maybe move to California and like from London and looking at jobs there and just feeling very inspired by being there. And it was such a weird thing afterwards. I was like, huh, okay, yeah. People are going to leave if even like going back to London and like living there again, the same people won't be there.
SPEAKER_03:It'll never be the exact same way that it was. Like it truly like I will never relive April 2024. Or I say like September 2024 to September 2025. Like, I will never relive that. Um, or like till October. And the weirdest thing, I was actually having a conversation with my mom because I was reliving um in my last uh or when I was graduating uni and switching my visa from like a student visa to like the post grad two-year visa, I had an issue because my um instructor instructors, professor, I could I've forgotten what they I keep calling professors instructors or like coaches. I was like, what is their like actual academic term? My professors, because I was saying I did a humanities degree and everyone was going on strikes quite a lot. And because I do a humanities, obviously every professor, yeah. I was talking to someone who did like a STEM degree and like not a single one of their classes were affected, but I was like, oh, all of mine were because of course the humanities were frequently, just no classes or yeah, nothing. So then they went on strike for um, like they were refusing to mark, and I had every grade come out except for my dissertation, which I needed my dissertation degree or grade for my degree to be validated or like for me to graduate, basically. And there they couldn't source another professor to mark mine or get like an external examiner because it was like such a niche rogue subject that it had to be marked by mine and like some and a the whatever the supervisor was or the other supervisor was. So when I crossed the strage at my graduation, I actually hadn't passed my degree and it was still waiting for that to happen, which beyond just being like, oh, funny, I might fail. I meant I almost got deported because my student visa was expiring and I had to submit my app my proof of graduation to get the postgrad. Yeah. So I I a lot of students were having the same issue. And so my grade or like my grades were sent in without the final grade and without the proof of graduation. And they're like, we can hold your grades or your like application for a couple of weeks. I think they gave like four weeks. They're like, if we don't receive your dissertation grade within these four weeks, your application will be nulled uh or rejected, and you can never apply for a postgrad, like those extra two years. And so I spent never again, the never again. That was the problem. It was like I had to gamble. I was like, you either I had either had to leave the country, hope that my dissertation grade would come through and then apply for my postgrad like a couple months later, or send in the application then and there and pray that it would just like get resolved in those weeks. And that was the gamble that I took because I needed to be in London because my Equinox training course was starting in October. And I was like, I can't risk going and getting stuck like in Saudi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And at the time it was the worst thing that ever happened to me because I was just like, I spent a month being like I could get deported any day now, and just like emailing the home office and just like waiting on that application. But, and this is where I like I truly believe like everything happens for a reason. When my application finally went through and got processed and they approved it, and I lived my last two years in London as a legal resident and citizen. I my BRP was then extended an extra month until the end of October because they received my application. My application technically started at the end of October 2023, and so two years was that. And so I basically got an extra month in London that I technically was never supposed to have because my BRP was supposed to be done at the end of September. So it was such just like I have always been such a big believer in like everything happens for a reason, but like truly to be able to reflect back and be like, wow, like at the time that was the worst thing that I thought could happen to me. But it the at the end of the day, it gave me an extra month in London that we didn't even realize was would have meant so much to me. Yeah, and then now I was like, that whole last month was just like an extra gift that I wasn't supposed to have. So that was a cool realization to have. Um, and just like a really just a reminder of like, okay, you can't see right now why but this bad thing is happening or thing is happening to you, but one day you'll be able to look back and reflect and be like, oh, that is the dot that is connected to whatever else.
SPEAKER_05:Because I feel like I've heard of it. Terrible. I mean, I've heard from many people it's quite stressful, but this time around, did you try to get visa sponsorship? Like, would you have stayed if that had um panned out?
SPEAKER_03:I didn't ever fully look into it eventually because I would have had to find a job basically, and like or gone through a whole like job process, and then even like getting a job right now, like the job market in London is like terrible from what I hear from friends who are applying, let alone then being in a job and convincing them to sponsor you. Like that is like the next layer. Um I also think like I could have tried to see if a family friend who has a business could have like fake hired me for a business to sponsor me. But what I had always said was like, if I have to get to that point, then I think I'm I'm pushing something, like, and I'm trying to force a path in my life that isn't supposed to happen. Where as I think that there could be something for me in the Middle East, whether it's a career opportunity or whatever, that I have to just trust in that process almost and trust in the opportunities that could come rather than trying to force to stay in London. Because I always said I would never leave London unless I was being forced out of it. Um, I think I was just like too contented there, and like maybe there is something better for me that right now doesn't feel like it's better for me, but like is in the Middle East or wherever I end up. So there were options to potentially try to do it in the sense of like get someone to try to sponsor me. But at that point, I was like, no, I'm push, I'm like tempting fate too much almost. Like I would rather just bow out, leave the party while I'm still having fun, which I know we've talked about on here before, and then just like come back and visit, you know, as much as I can.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it will always be home.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:How did you like there will always be a part of me that's like London? Like I know whenever I land in Heathrow, it'll be like almost like a warm hug. I just want to make sure that I go back often, or like and I'm hoping to go back like in the near, very near future, because I was talking to my mom about it, and when she left London after she graduated, the first time she visited was when I was like two or three years old. So there was like a couple of maybe like six or seven years between when she left and then she came back. And it was weird because she stayed, it's the same flat that we've had that she, you know, stayed in when she was in A-levels, and then when she came to visit with me, it was the exact same apartment. She told me she was like, I was looking out the window, but she was such a different person because she had then gone through a marriage, or like was married to my dad, or is married to my dad, became married to my dad and had me, so her identity's changed so much. Like she left London like a student because she didn't stay in work, she just graduated and then went back to the Middle East, and then she came back as a wife and mother. And I think to me that is like scary because I'm like, Whoa, you're like you were such a different person when you came back, and you were looking at the city in such a different lens. So I was like, Yeah, I will be trying to come back still as 20 years.
SPEAKER_05:When I went back for two weeks in at end of September, it was the best. Like I felt like I had so much more appreciation for it. That's funny. It's funny because I was around all of the like we both are now in deserts, and it was funny being there and like just hearing everyone be like, oh, we're getting into the cold, rainy month. Give us the rape. Yeah, like I just had such a different perspective on it, and I'm very hopeful that that continues every time I visit, and then you know, when I eventually go back, that's how the story goes. That um it feels you know, just like new again, and like so much appreciation for play. How did you decide where? I mean, we've talked about this a little bit. I don't know if you want to talk about it on here, but how do you like where are you now and how did you make that? Like, what were the options? And how did you decide? Yeah, I'm now with my parents before we moved, we had a bit of a do we stay here? Where in the states do we go? Do we go somewhere else? And it's such a big thing after you've just graduated because you're not going somewhere necessarily for school, just different. Didn't make sense.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was a um I think part of it, like I was more limited in choice, like there was like a sort of short list of places where I could really go and think places that made sense. So I'm currently in Riyadh in the Saudi, um, and we can announce it here for the first time. The plan is for me to go to Beirut. That is gonna be final destination back to Lebanon or to Lebanon.
SPEAKER_05:This is like naive on my part, but where can you're Lebanese, your passport and citizenship is Lebanese, right? So where is it easy for you? Yeah, because like I'm American British, so for me it's pretty simple.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that is the thing, is that the passport is my biggest limitation. So Saudi, the way I'm here, it'll all tie in. So I technically the only place I could ever live in just with my passport, not the only place, but one of few places that I could live in visa-free passport because of the passport would be Lebanon. I'm in Saudi now because my parents are here. My dad works here and has always you know worked in Saudi. So his through his work, I am sponsored under him as like his child. So it gives him the ability to like have a family, like a wife and kids.
SPEAKER_05:Um apparently the UK can do that as well. My mom was telling me that I could sponsor her as like a parent.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I don't think I don't think actually, I don't uh know.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if we have the reverse of it, but we have that like my dad can have his his wife, obviously, like a spousal visa, and then me, but I'm allowed to stay under his like sponsorship because I'm a girl, so I can stay under it until I'm married. Once I become married, it's a bit archaic here in the Middle East. Once I become married, if my husband is not Saudi, then I could no longer stay under my dad's sponsorship because the whole like argument is like the daughter has to, or like the the reason why the government allows me to stay under my dad's sponsorship is because it's like, oh, she's like the daughter, like he my dad is the one who would take care of me. Okay, I see. So if you were a son, would that not be? So sons get kicked off, yeah. So I was I'll never forget my cousin messaged me a couple, it would have been like a year and a half ago, almost two years ago now, because it's I think when you turn 21, you get kicked off because they consider that adult, you get kicked off. If you're a boy, you would get kicked off your dad's sponsorship because the assumption is okay, at 21, you've graduated, you should be able to work, or like you should be looking for a job, and then the job would sponsor you. They're not very pro boys staying at home and being like stay-at-home sons. So he texts me and he's like, How are you gonna like handle like what are what's your plan with like being kicked off like the sponsorship? And I was like, I didn't think I was being kicked off. Like, what do you mean? Um, and it was actually before he turned 21. And it was because also they use the Hijri calendar, which is like the Islamic dated calendar, and in it you turn 20, it's a shorter year than the Gregorian calendar. So in that Islamic calendar, you turn 21 before you would in like a Gregorian calendar. So it was before his 21st birthday, and he was like, I'm about to get kicked off. And they were able to sort something out for him. Um, but I remember being like, Oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do when it comes to like me, but we it's like now, or it was always apparently the rule like the daughter can stay under her dad until she gets married. So it we've kept that sponsorship. Technically, we wouldn't, you know, you don't have to have it because there are like fees that come with it. Um, but my parents want me to always sort of be able to come back home and like it gives me like um an ID card here, which gives me more rights than you would have as like a tourist. Um we've kept it so that I can always like come home. And you know, Lebanon has a is notorious for being at times politically unstable. So we always want to have like a place where I can come to so long as they are obviously still here and working. So Saudi was one of the countries that we considered me coming to no matter what, because I have that ID card that allows me to stay. It, however, does not allow me to work, so I can live under my dad, I'd like to be sponsored by my dad. But if I wanted to get a job, I would have to switch the sponsorship from my dad over to a company, and then they would be responsible for all those like fees and etc. But the reason I'm hesitant to work in Saudi and in the Middle East and to have them be my sponsor is sponsors here have like a few a bit more authority over me than like us to if I were to be sponsored by like the UK. So they technically there's something called like an exit re-entry visa. So every time I leave Saudi, my sponsor has to grant me approval, aka my dad has to approve of me leaving the country. Like I actually couldn't leave without him knowing because he has to like on the government website approve him. I think a little bit archaic. Yeah. And this is like this is like an improvement from where it's been. Um, so basically, like a spot, like if my visa or like resident, like permanent um like ID card was to be sponsored by a company, like it would give them a more rights than I'm comfortable for them to have over me. Um, and like you hear, I've heard so many horror stories, and like there's been so many horror stories like in the family of people like being sponsored by a company or like by a Saudi, and it starts off very positively and then it just like gets into murky water waters. So Saudi was like one that I I always knew I was gonna come back to and that I was like gonna come stay with my parents for a bit, but I didn't really want to work in Saudi because also the city that my parents are in is not the one I grew up in. It's not it's also not the one that I would necessarily choose to work in or like live in permanently. I'm just here because it's like my parents are here. Like I would have rather um if I were to move to Saudi, I would choose to move to Judda, which is where I grew up, but it's like on the ocean um or on the sea. But it also doesn't make sense for me to move to Saudi, but move to a different city that if my parents are in the country and like it just like financially, it's like why would you move and like open a house or like get a flat and like pay rent and all like those bills if it's like you could just stay with your parents and like suck it up and like live in a city that you enjoy a little bit less, yeah. Um, and it was the same issue of like, oh, I would have to be sponsored by a company, and then you kind of have the same thing in the fitness industry where they would want me that this was the biggest issue actually with Saudi and with other countries in the Middle East. If I need to be sponsored by a company, they want me like the way I would have to work like legally and then just contract-wise, is it you would enter a contract with them, so it wouldn't be the way it is for us in the UK or was with like pie in places of me being like a freelance and just like working whatever hours, it would be like a full-time contract. So I would get like the health insurance benefits and like vacation time, but conversely, I would be working like over a hundred hours a month, which is fair because you're paying you what me as a full-time employee, but also the whole point of working in the fitness industry was to get away from that like full-time work. So that pretty much xed Saudi off. It also xed a lot of the other Gulf countries, like the UAE, because if I were to go there under um a sponsorship, it's the exact same problem of less so that they have control over me, more that they would require like a certain amount of hours that I just don't want to give because I don't want to be working full-time. What to be honest, why I think that that's been the biggest like luxury or almost like issue of jumping straight into like being like I did a bit of like part-time work, but like ever since I've been qualified, it's just been freelance and self-employed work, and like whilst there are some issues to it, I think it is great. Like, I would encourage everyone to go down the room or anyone who was interested in it, I would push it. So that X'd a lot of the Gulf and then Europe, America, Canada, kind of similar issues, and also just I didn't want to make the decision from London and in a rush and towards the end of like my visa because I was like, there are so many just bigger emotions and like feelings of like leaving the city. I didn't want to jump into something or into like a work contract that I wasn't certain of. Even like if I were to have gotten a good opportunity in the Gulf, like I didn't want to take something in Dubai just because I wanted to jump into something, I wanted to like leave and take my time with it. So that's where I decided to come to Saudi first for like a month or so just to well see my dad. I've got some like stuff with the bank that I need to do whilst I'm here, just like life admin, slow down a little bit, and then get to Lebanon and then make Beirut sort of the home base. So we've got like a family flat there, so it means there's no cost of rent. I mean, there's bills, but it's not the same as oh, sort of like having a whole new flat.
SPEAKER_05:And like you're gonna live by yourself, or you're gonna be in the flat.
SPEAKER_03:So I'll be there. But the building that I'm in, my uncles live a flat below, a flat above, and my grandparents are like above as well. So I'm like sandwiched with family, so it's nice because I'm in proximity with them, but I can go to my back to my own place and like and do you enjoy being in Beirut?
SPEAKER_05:Is that like a happy place for you?
SPEAKER_03:It's like a neutral place for me. I think it's hard when you go. I've only ever really I sort of lived there, I've only ever gone like in summers and like winter vacations for like a couple weeks at a time. And I think it's hard because when you're only there for such a short amount of time, you can't really build out a routine or your community of people. So I have some people and like friends that I know who used to like go to the same high school as me and things like that, but it's not that I have my community of people. I've got extended family there as well, because I know that's not them listen to this podcast. So I've got a lot of extended family, but um, I think it's different because whenever I've been there, you live the vacation life of like being there for a few weeks rather than like the reality of it. So I'm hopeful and I'm excited about being there. I think that I've grown to love it more in the last few years that I've been got back to visit. And I think through Pilates and through fitness, I'm more hopeful about the people I'll be able to meet and the community I can build. Because I think before, whenever I've thought about moving to Lebanon, I'm like, I believe that there are people like me, like-minded and with similar interests. But where am I gonna go find them? I'm gonna not sit in a cafe and be like, hi, who wants to be my friend? I promise I'm normal. Yeah, like please be kind to me. Like, that's just mom, like I was always because my mom would always tell me, like, there'll be people like you, like people like you would be want to be friends with. I'm like, yeah, well, where, like, how am I supposed to find them?
SPEAKER_05:Whereas I think through fitness, Kristin yesterday, because we were talking about like building community here and he has his work, which is um obviously a social place, and there's lots of people who are at his job and doing all sorts of different roles, and I it's been so weird like working entirely remotely. And yesterday I had my call with you, and then I spoke to a few people from Pi, had like called with them, and it was very fulfilling and great. And then I get to the end of the day, and I'm like, oh, that was all virtual. Yeah, and then the studio that I'm working in is the opposite of Pi, in that Pi, as you know, likes to have this kind of hustle bustle feel where there's two classes and two privates and apprentices, and it's all a bit chaotic, but that's the way studios should be. And here they intentionally have a quiet studio.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting.
SPEAKER_05:So when I'm in there, it's usually only me and the clients or clients if it's a class. And it's it's so different, there's nothing wrong with it, but I loved going to Pi and not knowing who I would see.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and you just know you're always gonna see someone, like there's always something going on in the Pi studio. I think it's a rare day that it's like a quiet day, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And so it's been really challenging for me like to find this. Space that I thought would be my in-person space is not. And I work a lot outside of that. So I am spending a lot of time. It does help when I go to even just like a coffee shop and do that and work from there and I'm just like around other people, but it's very strange to not be in an environment, yeah, where you just have your people. You have to not be in a system like school where it's just being kind of fed to you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's nice because you can be more intense. It's it's hard, it's like there's pros and cons to it because you can obviously be a lot more intentional about the friendships you have. I think, like in high school, a lot of the time the people who are uh your closest friends, you know, some of them sometimes you can get lucky and you know you find your best friend for life. But I think a lot of them are also just the people where out of convenience and maybe just out of proximity you're close friends, and not all of those friendships last. And I don't think that it's necessarily bad because when you take away that convenience factor or that like proximity, there's less that you share in common with them. So it has been cool more recently, especially in the last two years, once I left university as well and like really dove into the Pilates world. I think a lot of the people who are now my closest friends, or like people that I consider close friends, a lot of them have come through. I would say that like two of my friends are like still from high school, but a lot of the other people in my life that are very close to me, like you are one of those, like where we didn't have to be close friends, we almost chose it and we're intentional with it because we got along or whatever it may be, uh, rather than we were always in the same place at the same time, even though we did meet at pie.
SPEAKER_05:But you've really expanded my zone. Like now, because I've always said I'm like, my closest friends feels like they're everywhere except where I am, and they're all in different places, and now you're the furthest one by far. I think I have a few people in Australia, but not who I'm although Australia might even be closer. Oh you're quite a far way around the world for me at this time, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because you are west east coast, west coast?
SPEAKER_05:We're on mountain time, which is a strip kind of in the center, yeah. I mean, we're definitely west, right next to California.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, and I I'm also with within Saudi, I'm now in the east of it, or like east, center east. I used to be west. When I go to Lebanon, we'll be a little bit closer, but like not by that much. I think Beirut is about like two hours away from here.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, you are my first for now. How do you feel emotionally in this first bit of time?
SPEAKER_03:Not like having moved and yeah, right now a bit stagnant. I was telling you this yesterday. It's hard because I'm also feel I kind of feel like I'm just in the holding room to the next stage of my life because I there isn't like do I want to would it be nice to build community in Riyadh so that whenever I come visit my parents, I can see people? Yes. Do I really want to right now? Not really, to be honest. I just I am enjoying being a bit lazy, um, getting finally getting to like be on the laptop and do admin work and like do honeycomb sutures work and just like finish do my PT course, be lazy and just like wake up at like midday and like stare. Like it's been nice to sort of just have that lazy life. I'm gonna try actually. I've decided Friday I'm gonna join uh a run club. There's these like a couple of run clubs here, so I'm gonna join that and like see what the vibe is. I have to run at it's at 5 a.m. start time though. I know because the alternatives are like you either have to do early morning or late night because of how hot it is during the day. And this is like the weekend long run. So they're doing it on a Friday because in Saudi the weekends are Friday, Saturday. Um, so it's a Friday morning run. So I actually don't I'm I don't know if I'm gonna make it to it. I want to go to it. It's also really far from me. So, but I think it could be fun. Like, I think for like similar to what it's like in Beirut, I think the way I would meet a community of people here would be through a run club because like gyms, for example, all gyms here are segregated. There's like male gyms, female gyms because for their privacy and things like that. Um, and gyms aren't really a place where you're needing people here, everyone is sort of just like locked in. Um, so run clubs would be the easiest way for me, or like the only way, really.
SPEAKER_05:Would that be like a women-only run club?
SPEAKER_03:So this one is mixed. I think there's a lot more men than women in it, just because I think it's a bit more popular with the men here, which we're trying to change. We're trying to get women doing fitness.
SPEAKER_05:That could totally be your social media thing.
SPEAKER_03:That's what you do wanna that's what I've been trying to push with the TikTok. Like in the middle of the case. I think that is yeah, that's what I wanna, and it's not that I think I'm the first like fitness influencer in the Middle East, but I think especially what is the people who are sort of prevalent on the Leban who have come out of Lebanon as like the sort of Lebanese influencer social media gals. All of them are more along the sort of fashion lifestyle Pilates in a contemporary way, Legree vibe, leaning out tumbler era, that whole genre. I would like to this is the first time I've really under like it's made sense to me what I or like what the I have now a purpose, I think, behind social media, where it's like, okay, now I have an interest in generating a following or like attraction on so social media because I want to show that women can eat carbs, uh, women can do hit workouts and they can run. And there are women already doing that, but I want to like push it even more because I think that space in the UK, like there are a lot of women doing it, like Lucy Davis and like all those like great women. And I think that was one of the things where once it sort of clicked to me, like, oh, I would love to push like high rocks in the Middle East and like that concept of women doing it. It almost clicked of oh, maybe that is why you have to leave London because I could have contributed to that fitness space in London, yes. But it's not that I think it's saturated, but I don't think that my unique story has much to say there. Whereas I think I could do something with it in the Middle East, um, and it's what's sort of like my goal with it now. So that is helped or is like also helping the whole moving to the Middle East and like moving to Lebanon is like that is a way that I can do something positive, hopefully, with it. Definitely so yeah, so the whole now Riyadh is almost like a holding space, but I'm just trying to enjoy it for what it is and like let myself be lazy, and then also like it's a certain idea, like I can just chill, do my workout, like go train, come home. There's food. Like I I can cook, but I there's also food that is being cooked in the house that I could choose to eat. Uh, it's like a fun, like I'm just choosing to enjoy it. It's hard because there's like a loss of independence, obviously, moving back home with family, yeah. Which is also why it's also why I didn't really consider Saudi too highly, just because I know myself and I I love my parents, but I don't think I am built for living with them long term. Whereas Lebanon gives me that like happy medium of I'll be around a lot of close family that I'm currently not and I haven't seen for a long time or seen for extended periods of time, whilst also having the independence of living on my own, because I think I love that more than anything. So it's like a per a happy medium. And Lebanon is a bit more or is a lot is closer to sort of a European, has a lot more of like a European influence to it and in its culture than Saudi does. Saudi is a little bit is different in that sense, and I think that I could there are pockets of Lebanon that are almost feel exactly like London or Europe, like Paris vibes, that I could almost it's very privileged bubbles, but there are bubbles that I could sort of like exist in and then be fine. There's an F-45 in Beirut, which I've told I've said to everyone, I it's my first stop. I land in Lebanon, I will be going to an F-45. Um so yeah, I'm excited. And so that is why I ended up with Beirut, is it made the most sense financially in terms of not having an extortionate amount of bills, whilst also giving myself independence, being near family, and then also just like legally, where can I go and work? So in Lebanon, I can obviously live there, no visa, thank God. I can work and I could work freelance. So that would that is the goal. I've already reached out to a couple of um Pilates studios. Um, because there are, and there's so there are also classical Pilates studios in Lebanon, which there aren't in Saudi.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So I can go and hopefully find a way to work with some of those Pilates studios, maybe take on a bit of uh group fitness training again or like contemporary reformer if I have to. But basically be freelance whilst also giving my time and energy to honeycomb studios and what we want to build out. And then also my best friend from high school lives in Turkey, so I can bop hopefully bop and go see her, like enjoy the flexibilities that come with being freelance rather than getting stuck in like a full-time contract, which I've been saying. I don't want to do. Put my time into that sort of social media, you know, trying to just create a space for women in the fitness industry in the Middle East, um, for young girls in the fitness industry. And then hopefully it can become a situation where Beirut becomes like the home base where all my belonging because that was the biggest thing also was just like figuring out where am I gonna ship all my stuff out of the UK from and where are we sending it to. Um and that flat in Beirut will, I mean, hopefully Donklin Wood just like is our like family home. So I can guarantee that the things can just stay there, even if I'm not there. No one is gonna be staying in that room. Um, so I can hopefully come to a place where I'm bopping around, maybe between the UAE and Turkey and Saudi or and London and wherever work takes us, and then just know that all my belongings are in Lebanon without it necessarily being where all my community and people are. I mean, I'm I'm hopeful that I'll be able to like build a community and a life there, but if I don't, it's not the end of the world.
SPEAKER_05:Also a weird thing, like I feel this here very strongly, is I know I'm not going to be here forever and in the theme of my life for not that long. And I have to keep reminding myself that it's still important to build a community, even though I will not be here for that long. I feel very much as though I'm just passing through, and I feel like a total visitor.
SPEAKER_03:And is Utah a big um like transplant city or place? Or not so much?
SPEAKER_05:I don't uh I think increasingly so. I mean transplant being from Idaho or Colorado, not uh, you know, I mean that's just from that's just like who the people I've met, maybe some California. Um I've talked to a lot of people who have moved moved here and then sort of stayed or they ended up staying longer than they intended. Um and it's increasingly like more and more people are coming here. Um and yeah, I feel like I just don't I have to be really active about being curious and exploring like I have the places that I like here now and I enjoy going to those places, but I have to be very active about exploring the new ones because I'll have moments where I'm like I I'm acting and feeling as though I'm only here for another month or something.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, which is hard.
SPEAKER_05:It's so hard.
SPEAKER_03:It's hard because I think also I mean I'm going into the sort of next year of my life knowing it may not be the best year, just in that I think the first year in a new place is a hard year. Like it's your first year to slash two years is your transition pick period. I mean, you may have like sort of a honeymoon period at the like first few months, but then you like get hit. I I think back to my first year, first two years in London, where you're just meeting so many people and like going to new places, but you don't know what is your comfort or your who your people are gonna be or what your community is gonna be. Um, and so I think it and I think it can take a while to find it. It does I don't think it's something that comes instantly, and that's why I think I enjoyed my last year to two years so long and so much in London, is because I had that those three years before where I was able to build up and figure out what I want exactly. So I can't even like I can't I can see how hard it would be to be like, okay, I know that it's gonna take me a while to find my people and your places, but you also know that you may not be it, you're probably hopefully not with respect to Utah, not gonna be in Utah for five years.
SPEAKER_05:Well, that's another weird thing about it is I yesterday, so September, I really had a hard time. It was super up and down, and I was just sort of in such a transition phase and really struggling. October was great, and I was feeling really good, and then November I've just been like, Why do I live here? It's just so I think it's just not a linear thing.
SPEAKER_03:Um and it's because you also it's hard. I mean, obviously, this is a compromise you're willing to make because you love your husband and Tristan, but realistic like you your move to Utah was not for your career or or for an opportunity you had, but rather something that he wanted to do and like an opportunity for him. So I think it can be hard where there isn't that thing that is driving you forward. You made the choice happily, I'm sure, but also it's it it's hard to balance out. I also can you believe we're in November? Not to completely derail us from what we were talking about, but like I know how how are we because everyone was asking better your Halloween, yeah. Because everyone's like, What were your Halloween plans when it was October? And I was like, What do you mean Halloween? Like, how are we talking about Halloween costumes and plans? And then I thought, Oh my god, we're in October. Now October has been and gone, and now we're in November, and I'm like, whoa.
SPEAKER_05:And then the holidays, it's crazy, yeah, it's crazy, and actually, um, to the point of moving here for Tristan's job yesterday. He and I were talking about that because he loves his job so much, and it's the best thing. Like, I genuinely am so thrilled about that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's so great to hear.
SPEAKER_03:There's some very confusing kind of guilt is well, I feel guilty for feeling this way, but I just don't, I'm not getting the same fulfillment out of being here, and I think that's maybe still to come, but he has such a he'll leave and go to work, and it's such a full experience, and then we'll come back and can go and do these activities that he loves, and there's things that he doesn't like about here either, but it's pretty good in terms of what he needs, and it's tricky to find the balance of I don't want to harp on the things that I don't have here, but also I want to honor those things and yeah, it's a tricky one, but and that's I think the element I feel like we've touched on it before about freelance or like work that is hard, where it's like you don't really have colleagues or coworkers, it's sort of just you. So in a in a world where you had a sort of a nine to five job that I think you would it you would find it easier to adjust to your life because you would have your routine that comes from that work, and you would have people that you I think that's the one thing we sort of miss out on, and I guess we sort of kind of get it with like client interactions, but the sort of like trivial conversations and like the friendships you would have with a co-worker, what I would imagine, because I don't have that, but like what I hear from my friends who are like corporate workers, like those those sort of like friendships and interactions, I think we miss out on. And you we that's not an element of socializing that we don't have necessarily in that freelancer world, which could be things that would fill your cup. So, like you're saying, where a day like yesterday where you did a lot of work through virtual meetings, you didn't actually get any of that like face-to-face in-person interaction that you would have had your co-workers spend in person.
SPEAKER_05:I think this is this is unique, maybe not, but in the studios I've spent time in, and because of my role doing admin, so I have sort of a central, I was in a central position there, but I loved being there in the morning, your teaching, Keelan's teaching on a different morning, maybe it's Safia, whoever it is, and those moments of like that's kind of the closest thing I've had to the co-work, you know, aside from like part-time jobs I've had in university and stuff. But I those little that's where you get those little moments, and it's so different. In the again, in the studio I'm in here, I go to the studio, it's quiet, it's just me. The clients come in, and it's a small studio too. So if I'm teaching a class, there's only three or four people in a full class, and then yeah, the dynamic with a client is not the same. Actually, I taught a class last week where there was a client in it who was just awesome, super interesting, and we were all kind of like talking throughout the class, and then afterwards, there isn't the same ability to just be like connecting, there's a different dynamic there.
SPEAKER_03:That's hard because you also haven't found a sort of workout spot necessarily that would be your like go-to.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I did actually, it's funny you say that because there's a gym here that is do tell. There's not a lot of normal, I don't say normal. I was looking for just a gym where I could do weights, there's cardio equipment, just a gym. That has been very hard to find here. I think because people are just so outdoorsy, they're not there's not a huge market for that, but there is a gym that's great, which is mostly a climbing gym, which I do not do, but they have like beautiful gym equipment, they have a cafe and they do teach classes and things. So I've been thinking about potentially teaching there and then helping that community as well.
SPEAKER_03:Because I think that is uh an easier way, or not an easy way, but a way to build a community. But it is hard to find because I think it I think classes are the easiest way, like being a client at a class, like what but it is hard to find the spot and then find the class.
SPEAKER_05:To your question earlier about people being transplants, I haven't really met anyone yet who is also here just for a moment. I mean, I've met a few people who have sort of said, I'm ready to move on to somewhere else, or you know, they're curious about living somewhere else. But most people I talk to are like they're here. Porn and raised. Yeah. Great. It's so like so many people love it here, and that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:But I then don't want to come in and be like, here's the things I don't like about the place that you and also they're probably a bit more set in their like community and like their sort of their comfort of, oh, I've you know, I've got my person for this and that, and so they're maybe less likely to be meeting new people and making new friends because they've already got their friend group or whatever it is. Yeah. And and like the differing political opinions that you may have. You probably have to quite a lot of the people there.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I actually have been feeling a lot um mostly in the studio. I mean, the studio that I work in is also very, very openly liberal. There's five flags everywhere, and there's little signs and things on the wall that are all very like welcoming and community-oriented, so that's great. Um, and a lot of the clients like will end up talking about politics and things, and they'll they clearly are thinking the same way that I am, but I have seen quite a few Utah stance with Israel signs and things of that nature, and the conversation we had yesterday about um someone I was interacting with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, who I was interacting with who was a day before, I think yeah, politically different to um to me, and I find those honestly that experience made me feel pretty low for a few days because I yeah, there's so many things at the hot hot spot for a while when everything was happening, obviously with Charlie Kirk or like Utah, yeah so yeah, yeah, just complicated.
SPEAKER_01:It was very very good night for Democrats yesterday, though.
SPEAKER_03:I woke up to a lot of very hopeful videos every all around the country. Very hopeful, a wave of blue.
SPEAKER_05:I think it's also a bit exhausting to have not been living in that. I feel like I've been sort of looking at the experience from the outside, and then to be living in it and have all this like hopeful momentum is really great, and it's also like okay, I really hope it pans out, and I really hope it keeps.
SPEAKER_03:I saw a lot of um people talking about how they're like, and I have I'm like, I also have FOMO. They're like, Oh, I wish I could vote for Momdani to be mayor. Of like, or like, why does New York get Moldani as mayor? Like, I want him as mayor, um or just everybody like he is my mayor too.
SPEAKER_05:Um so yeah, it is very hopeful, it's great. It's you have to keep looking at those things, but it's a lot to just suddenly be like living in this place that's so what's going on.
SPEAKER_03:And I think yeah, I almost feel it's I think it's harder for you, and I feel for you even more so because especially with your dual citizenship of like the British American, the world is kind of your oyster, like you could be anywhere really, and work and visas are like less lesser of an issue. I in a way, it was sort of a I see it as a blessing that there was kind of like the road was sort of everything was really just suggesting Lebanon is your best bet. Like there was less decisions to make. Like there are we I could have made other things work, but it is like the easiest thing to just like get there and get myself there. And so it was nice because I almost didn't have a huge decision to make. Like you're asking, like, how did I decide on Lebanon? That's kind of just the option that made the most sense. And so, because I think there's a saying, and I'm gonna butcher it, but I can't we say it there's a butcher okay, it's a saying in Arabic. I was like, what language is it? And it's in Arabic, and it basically translates roughly in English to like if you have so many decisions, that's gonna give you insanity almost, because you you have the choice.
SPEAKER_05:For sure, and it's tough with I'm sure there's other places in the world like this in terms of our four most straightforward options. The US is the most alluring in terms of really just in terms of pay and for Tristan's work, and it's so challenging to not just get sucked into that. They do a very good job at making that seem like it's the best thing that will ever happen to you. And every time I speak to mostly clients who are usually quite liberal about my life and just yeah, these different options, to your point. Pretty much everyone will say, Why are you here when you can do it?
SPEAKER_03:Because the states is also like the states is a an easy or like a straightforward choice, but it's from what I see, the states is huge. Like each state to me feels like its own country and like so different from one another that even within that choice, there are so many. And obviously, you'd be like constrained by like Tristan and his work, but there are so many options there, let alone Europe.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, I see that the salaries in the US are much higher than and I know obviously cost of living is also quite high, but they're they're and it's also because people have a lot of student debt, you know, it's more complicated than just having a high salary, but yeah, I increasingly don't care. I'm just like fair. I just don't, I don't need that. I will find it other ways.
SPEAKER_03:What are other options that would look or like what are your other straightforward y ones for you guys? UK?
SPEAKER_05:I mean, well, the tricky thing too is yes, the US is straightforward, but also we both kind of have there's kind of a short list of places in the US that we would live in, mostly because of one thing the US does really well, at least until now, we'll see, is taking care of its nature. And so, you know, California, Utah, Wyoming, a lot of these places out west have such beautiful mountains and things to offer. Um, but it really does. I would I haven't spent much time in Seattle. I would love to live in Seattle if we're gonna be in the States, but that's not really an option just because of the way that they do their vet something about Tristan couldn't do exactly what he needs to be doing in Washington State, so that's a bit like because I would love to be by the water more than anything. I would love to be by some big water, and we definitely don't have that here. There's creeks and there's lakes and stuff, but I would love to be by an ocean or a big lake. Um, and so Vancouver is appealing to me. I really have liked Vancouver when I've been, but it's also the salary is different, so and it's a really expensive place to live. So it's just yeah, navigating those pieces.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, it's it's I used to tell all my friends that I would live in Canada at one point, or I was I was convinced that I was gonna live there and move there because there's a large like Lebanese population, so Canada's great.
SPEAKER_05:It's um I haven't really again spent much time there, but it's great. And I exactly like what you're saying. I we actually had some friends that we were talking to that we're visiting a few weeks ago, and one of them was saying, It's so crazy that you guys are even talking about living in you know Switzerland or whatever. I've just never even considered that to be an option because I'm have an American passport and where I am, and there's so many good options in America, and I kind of was like, Yeah, it's a blessing, and I'm so grateful, and also you know, that's a lot of choices, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's overwhelming because you then have the the weight of I have to make the right choice, which is I don't think that's the correct weight to have, but like you feel that pressure of okay, I'm whatever I decide, could yeah really like shift.
SPEAKER_05:I saw a lot of really cool, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I saw really cool videos of um the like when the Chicago marathon was going on, and I don't know what I pictured Chicago to look like as a place, but I was like, oh, I could see myself in Chicago.
SPEAKER_05:Chicago's cool. Chicago is um right on Lake Michigan, which is nice, looks like an ocean.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, from clips I've seen because I'm similar to you where I'm like, I need the water, and I mean like a because I I grew up on the beach, so I'm like, I need like access to it, I want to just go and sit by the water and hear it. Um I would like to run the Chicago marathon, so or how I'd like to be in Chicago.
SPEAKER_05:I I could totally see you running one of those big marathons.
SPEAKER_03:I wanna you heard it here first. I want to go for the like the six stars or like do all the like world majors, and Chicago is one of them.
SPEAKER_05:You totally should.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so there's um currently the six that you would need to get the six stars. There's Chicago, New York, Boston. So I don't know why America has three of them. Um and then there's London, Berlin, Sydney, uh, Tokyo. And then they've added Sydney and South Africa is potentially being added, but I don't understand the logistics of now there's more than six world majors like. How many do you need to like get the stars?
SPEAKER_05:All of them to get the six stars.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So, but it's so cool because there's like um a list on the website and you can sort it by nationality. And only three people who are Lebanese have ever done it. One's a girl and two men, or a lady and two men.
SPEAKER_04:Um, usually you this should be your yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I want to do so. I've signed up for there's a Riyadh Marathon end of January. I'm looking at doing a half then because my Richmond half just never came to fruition. Um, and then I'll start looking at marathons. The dream my dream has always been to run London someday because obviously, like we love that city.
SPEAKER_05:I would do that with you. That maybe that is maybe the one marathon I would do. That would be so much fun to run in the city where we met. Yeah, wouldn't that be cool? That would be cool. Which of the six do you have to qualify for?
SPEAKER_03:Boston. So Boston is like you need to go. I think for women now it's like 310, something crazy, like a wild number. But I believe you can get like you could run it through like a chair, like you would there's like ch thro ways through charity donate like charity bibs that you could like sort it out. Um like you can do it without time qualifying, it's just for most people you have to time qualify. Well, I guess or I have to just become such a famous influencer that someone gives me a bib. I think we're manifesting. I think I think I'm gonna put out into the universe. I would love if there's any sports brad, I would love to do out to work with ASICs in some capacity. I love their shoes, they're like all my running shoes. So if ASICs need a new ultra athlete, listen, I'm not dropping a sub, I'm not dropping a 310 marathon, but I can bring the vibes. I can bring the marriage.
SPEAKER_05:You bring the vibes, you bring great vibes. Wow. Sorry, what were you saying before your the Wi-Fi cut you off? Um also I think it was Putney ripping the Wi-Fi out of the which she's done a few times.
SPEAKER_04:Having a puppy is still a little crazy.
SPEAKER_03:So you're she's a mother now.
SPEAKER_04:What was it? I forget what I was talking about.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, we were talking about being on the ocean because I was saying how that's what I'm looking forward to by being in Beirut, like being on the sea again.
SPEAKER_05:And you were talking about like the I just love like when we've we've been to California quite a few times since being here because it's so close, and I could just sit in the ocean all day. I find it so calming. And would you move to California? What would you move to California?
SPEAKER_03:Would you consider it?
SPEAKER_05:Probably not. I think actually, I don't really know very much about California, but the people who are there that I that I know who live there are like it's so perfect, the weather's perfect all the time, and I don't think I would I think I need seasons. I think I really need seasons, and Seattle has seasons, they also have beach, nice can't you, but I love also where I was born in Southampton, is it's a it's in England, it's not like warm, sunny holiday vibes all the time, and I remember a lot of the beaches being rocky and kind of gray, so I don't mind that. I I love the winter beach walk. I also need the sun and the beach and the you know summer fields, but I just find it so calming to be near water, and it's interesting because people here find that with the mountains, and I can see why, and also it's not the same for me. I don't get that feeling out of going on a hike in the mountains, yeah, it doesn't serve me the same way, so I need water for sure. Even just having the Thames sucks that you can't interact with the Thames. I mean, I interacted with it about as much as I possibly could, but if you ingested a bit too much of it, I ingested a bit too much of it, but you can't swim in it and even then I just liked being able to walk along this yeah amazing body of water.
SPEAKER_03:My walk to Pi every day, I would cross the the bridge, and it was just like I like just seeing the ocean. It makes me feel I'm similar to you, where I think I don't think I realized it so much growing up because I used to always say that I was a mountain person over an ocean gal. Um, but then I think I realized, I mean, especially being here in Riyadh where there is no ocean, like, whoa, where what do you mean there's no beach we can just drive to? Yeah. So I think I'm similar to you where it just makes me feel a bit more free. It's like I just if I can.
SPEAKER_05:In the mountains, you're not like you're immersed. Like Tristan's tried to explain this to me. He's like, you're playing in the mountains, you're in this amazing thing. I'm like, yeah, but when you're in the water, you are like every piece of you is connected to this thing, and it feels like physically, it feels like you're being held by something. And he likes the ocean, he's not like obsessed, he's obsessed with the mountains, and that's kind of my main reason for not wanting to, you know, if Utah had a massive ocean, I'd probably just be floating, but that's not um, should we talk about just how we've been feeling with Honeycomb Studios?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, oh this is what I oh this is what I said when you um disappeared with the Wi-Fi cut. I was doing some clips today. I don't know if you saw I posted what uh one or two of the Christos ones on the Honeycomb.
SPEAKER_05:I haven't listened to them, but I like opened Instagram this morning and saw them, which I really appreciate doing.
SPEAKER_03:Um course. I was able to figure out when um Riverside creates a clip for us or if there's a clip we use. So you know how with the interview with myself and with Max and then also the one with Christos, because me and whoever were on the same screen, whenever it cuts between like you and us, it used to cut to the center, and so you would see like half of me and half of the person. I figured out how to zoom in on that. So when it pans, it goes to like whoever you need it to, like whoever is speaking. Like you have to do it manually each time. But I did it so that when it pans, it's like because it would be like Chris also's forehead, and I was like, okay, we don't need to just see the wall between him and I. There must be a way to figure it out. Um, so when it then split switches between the two of us, it goes in on the person. That's why it was one of those, it was one of those things. I was like recording it for like a little TikTok that I was gonna make about like doing this, and I'm like, and I just I was like, I know when I tell Rose this, we're both gonna be so excited about like the most basic thing that we should probably have already known and like known how to do, but it's like it's in those moments where I'm like, this is why I'm not actually a video editor because I think it took me like half an hour to figure it out.
SPEAKER_05:It's so crazy how difficult social media is because even with like if I pull up our feed, the and it's helpful because they're on top of each other right now, but the Max one and the Christmas one are different sizes. Yeah, because I so I went literally went into the exact same template.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, wait, you mean yours?
SPEAKER_04:I thought, oh, because I made one as well. I thought you were saying because I made one.
SPEAKER_05:I went into the exact same template, changed the name, and then Oh, I see what you mean, the actual name of the episode because of how the video is, because in the max one it's the Christos one is like a square, and the max one is uh form, but I just oh I don't know why the Christos one came out as a square.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wait, that was you, not me.
SPEAKER_05:It was one of the one posted, and I was just like, why is this so challenging?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So then when I this is also the only time when I find it challenging when it's the two of us because I I would never do this on my own. I'm so happy to have a business partner. But then when I went in to go make the cover, I was like, Well shit, I don't know what Rose used. And I was like, I'm gonna go find something similar enough. But then I made, if you see, I made a different cover and I put that in Canva because I put Oral History as a logo into it. I was like, I don't know if she's gonna like this or not, but I but she's asleep right now, so I have to post.
SPEAKER_05:But it's just little things like that where you're just like, oh my god, this is so and I actually maybe it was last week I posted a picture from Honeycomb Studios that was me and Putney or just Putney or something about her being a coworker, and before I posted it, I was kind of like, okay, this is not as professional looking. Do I want to even put that out there? And then I sort of decided I would rather have the tone be not perfect all the time because the pressure of making everything look exactly perfect the way it should be is yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I felt that way with posting and not knowing how you would feel about the cover because also one of them I put without a cover and I just have it showing me you crystals. And I figured worst case, we can always hide them and have it so it still shows up on the real but not on the main feed. But I also think if our feed is if we're too particular about what the feed looks like, we're just gonna it's just that's just an extra barrier to stop us posting. And I'm like, we need things to be as easy as possible, um because that is how we will most likely be doing them. So yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So I definitely find that piece to be the most exhausting, though. Oh yeah, it's a lot. Um, but I feel like now we're kind of in a bit more of a phase where I don't know, I feel a bit more grounded in it now. I feel like it got released, and I was kind of like, why have 20,000 people not joined already? And we were talking about this yesterday, but we just didn't. I mean, before we launched that page, I think it had like 30 followers or something, or 20 something. Um, like we just weren't doing anything with it.
SPEAKER_03:Um we didn't market the release of it. We did a little bit through Sicky Notes, but we were also being a bit hush-hush with what it was. So I think we're like, no one's still our idea. We need to just get this out there and like made, which I don't necessarily regret that. And I think also there was a the timeline really was shifting. I also don't think we could have marketed it because the timeline was shifting so much in terms of when it was gonna come out that like one week it was like it could come out tomorrow. And then it was like, oh no, it's gonna need like a month. Yeah, and then it was like Nikki was like, Okay, it's good to go. And we were messaging, and I was like, Rose, like, I think it can go. I I want to post or re repost the screenshots at some point because it's literally me saying, like, I think it can go live. And I was just like, I'm okay with I was like, I've I'm okaying everything on the website. Like when you wake up, if you want it to go live, it can go live, and we're like, right, and then it was live before we announced it technically, and we were like, so we'll just do it tomorrow, and we're like, yeah, so then we just like on a random Friday decided that okay, it's launch day, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I'm also and we talked about this yesterday in our a conversation that we didn't record, but I also am realizing, you know, we've gotten tons of messages, like responses, or just people reaching out saying, like, can you tell me a bit more about this? I'm curious about this. That's been the majority of things, and then there's been a few pretty key people who um, you know, run bigger programs or whatever, who have asked more specifically, like someone who I was just emailing with.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if you saw the emails on our account yesterday, who um I need to turn on the notifications onto the separate Gmail inbox for that because I just don't.
SPEAKER_05:But she basically said um she's in a different country than both of us are, and she does a lot with teacher training there, and she said, Okay, how can I contribute? Like, what can I do?
SPEAKER_03:And it was Oh, you were is this who you were talking about yesterday? Um that's fine.
SPEAKER_05:That I kind of I wanted to respond, like, just get all of your people on this thing. But that I obviously couldn't just say that, so I was a bit, but it's it's so tricky because a lot of people are they're like, How can I be a part of this?
SPEAKER_03:And I'm like, well, and this is where we're thinking that we may have to just sort of record some clips to almost speak to the audience because I think whilst I believe that things are sort of if you poke around through the website, hopefully it clarifies things, but maybe not. I think we also obviously have been living in this for so long, so we understand what it is so fully that I think maybe it's not been communicated clearly through the website. Um and you know, this is exactly what what we kept saying about let's just get things live and we'll listen to feedback and we'll adjust from there. And this is an example of that. We've had you know people suggest that you know Pilatesology already exists, and it's like that's not what we're trying to compete with. And I think it may and to me that was just a signpost of okay, we haven't communicated clearly what we're building um and what honeycomb studios is. And I think people just keep getting thrown off by that the fact that there's a studio in our name. Uh I think people are expecting because I'm I think with my grandparents, I was like, no, we're not actually launching a physical studio and we're not hosting live. Yeah, yeah. We're not hosting live classes. One day. Um one day. We we were talking about this yesterday. We wanna we we went to we're dreaming of a sort of a European home base for hunting home studios. LLFC.
SPEAKER_05:I really love that it's called Studios because I feel it's like plural, it's the studio of all the studios. Like I want every studio to feel that they have a home in this space. And I think I I still I didn't do this yesterday, but I want to make a video of um I should think it would be better if it was just like a selfie video talking about why there's a paywall.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, go for it.
SPEAKER_05:Feeling a bit more like talking to the people, but there are reasons why it's not just like for a random.
SPEAKER_03:And also like what it is, because I think people just don't are. I think also because it's whilst it is a form of a social media in a way, like a community that we're building, it is also something new. So I think when something is new, it maybe it's it takes a bit more for people to understand, oh, this is what they're trying to do. Yeah, right because it's like a new idea. Not that we're creating like it's it's it's a so it's a form of social media in a way, but it's to be done in a new light.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, there are some people who don't get it. Not like I haven't really had many interactions with people who don't get it, but a few people have have wondered about it, and I feel lucky that it that doesn't get in my head at all. I'm kind of like, that's fine. I think that that's fine, and at one point maybe you will get it and you can be a part of it, and if it's not something that ever is calling to you, then you don't have to be a part of it, and that's also more than fine.
SPEAKER_03:There there was one message because I also I have all my Instagram notifications off just because we've got like the sticky notes account, the honeycomb, like my personal. Uh no, no, no, not even. It was the one there was one that I saw it came through as a notification in that first day, and then I was like, Okay, I need all at that point, I was just like, okay, I need all my notifications off because like all the accounts were going crazy, and we always say our cross-posting. So it's like, okay, likes are coming from everywhere. So also this is a like PSA because no one believes me when I because I don't respond to people on Instagram because I just don't open my messages and I don't see the messages because my notifications are off. But I digress. We got one message, and it was like when you had started, I think, to reach out to people in those like first few days, and someone came back with a bit of a like a scathing one-liner, and I think it was like I took a beat of being like, Oh, and then I was like, Do you know what? Like, I I really don't care, and I think yeah, like I could have let it get to me and be like, oh my god, have we messed up? Is this the wrong idea? But I think it was also this is where I'm so appreciative to have a partner in this because I just I literally sent it to you and I was like, haha, like I even comment was um, if you knew anything about me and my work, you would never have sent this to me.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think it I think it was actually about the methodology, and I was like, oh, yeah, and the takeaway for me with that was this is the problem is that people in this realm are so gatekeepy and simultaneously want to learn everything from everyone, and even in London, like between those studios, there was just so much like not drama, that's too much of a word, but just not this kind of all like wholesome sort of feeling around connections to other studios. And I feel like there is kind of a generation above us of teachers, not all of them for sure, but a lot of them who are kind of like, well, this is my thing that I've built, and I'm not going to share that with anybody. And the people who aren't like that, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:They want to share their information, they want to share their knowledge, they it was why I was sort of really wanted to, and that was the clip that I clipped of the Kristos episode because it meant so much to me that he was saying that as well. And it's not like you know, that he just decided that that was an opinion he wanted to share about how um he believes that we do need a lot more community in the space and to build that, and that's where he was sort of very complimentary about what we were trying to build with Honeycomb Studios. And I think it was a good signpost to me that there was someone who is almost an older generation of teacher or has a lot more experience than you and I, um who could, and this is where I always give him his flowers. He is someone who could say, No, you know what, I don't want to share my knowledge and it is mine alone. Um, whereas he is making the argument that we do need to be sharing this, and this is how we keep the system and the methodology alive. And if we all were to have the mindset of I'm keeping what's mine to me, then the classical world is going to die out and people are gonna look to uh look elsewhere for answers rather than trying to build a community. So it and I think like you're saying in London, there can sometimes feel because there are so many different studios where you can now get an apprenticeship at and like do your training at, it can sometimes feel like there's also then like only a certain amount of jobs in London to work in classical studios, so you're almost you've you may feel that you're in competition with these other studios and apprentices. And I just think that there's enough space for everyone, and that is exactly what Honeycomb Studios is trying to prove. And I think almost like you're saying, like, there was also a while, I think up until recently, where teachers weren't necessarily hosting workshops in diff across different studios. I think now we're seeing, you know, Max has gone to a couple of places, um, Chris Os has come over to Pi, he did one at Nobu as well. So there's starting to be a little bit more of a spread.
SPEAKER_05:It comes with um some of those things I see, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like this person is going, there's such a strong when Max wants to exhale. I was like, oh, he's at I know like and it's crazy. Like Max is phenomenal, and he should be welcomed into every space to share that information with people, and instead it feels kind of like, oh, like whoa.
SPEAKER_03:I think also people should feel comfortable to also come to pie. Like, I mean, I can't speak to all of them. I know when Jean-Claude came, there was a lot of is it Jean-Claude, his name?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I was like, oh whoa, was that his name left me? I know that there was a lot of teachers who came from, you know, across different studios, but I think back to sort of one of those or one of the workshops I attended that Max hosted, and most of the people were like pie adjacent, like either an ex-student, teacher, whatever it may be. There it was less that anyone was coming from an ex-hale or a lifebody, and you know, obviously everyone has different reasons why they can and can't make workshops. Like there's a lot of workshops going on in London at all times. You can probably find a workshop. Um, but I just I wonder if there's even a way, even in that instance for Pi, where it's like to bring in other people from like other studios.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and that felt very I mean, I hadn't been a part of Pi for that long, but it's been, you know, I guess like over two years now that I've been working there. And when Jean-Claude came in, it was so that day was so fun because it attracted people not just in the Pi space, and people came in from they like flew in to come to this workshop, and he was so lovely and sweet, and it was an event instead of kind of just funneling out knowledge to funnel out knowledge.
SPEAKER_03:Um, yeah, I think we could use a lot more of and I know that there are like the Pilates Unity Summits and like those sort of like larger workshop weekend things that are hosted, but also that those are a lot often like a lot of uh are much more expensive. You have the cost of travel, it's a long weekend of your time. So whilst you could argue that some of those things exist, I don't think that's accessible for everyone.
SPEAKER_05:And we're just trying to make things accessible. Like the workshop that you know, I feel like there just more and more I'm thinking that I would love apprentices to be connecting because that's A, it's the next generation continuously, and B there's so much feeling as an apprentice that you know just so little that you can't even explore it that much, and it's that's no one's you know, problem, and I don't think everyone feels that way, and there is not a lot that apprentices know, but I think we could serve us all better to have a bit more open communication instead of just like you know, kind of guessing when you're arbitrarily allowed into these other spaces, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And also I think, and I'm sure people are trying to make it more welcoming, but I think it can be intimidating, and there are people in that older generation that are the exact thing that we are trying to well not fight against, but counter and show that you know we don't have to gatekeep information and we can share and you know. I think it's also in the sort of first few weeks to sort of loop back to you know, it's now live and launched, and um in the first few weeks, Rose was absolutely phenomenal at reaching out to studios. She was all hands, all hands on deck were Rose's hands on deck.
SPEAKER_04:I was I can't message your head, but you're doing great, sweetie. I'm cheering for you in the background, but I don't know what's going on, really honestly.
SPEAKER_05:So you had hands on deck amazing. I've ri you like could not, you had no more hands to give to decks.
SPEAKER_04:I was like, that's why I was like today. Oh, I posted a blog post. I did our a blog post as well. I haven't read it, but it seems like such an important topic.
SPEAKER_03:So it sort of it came out of it was a an old blog post that I had that I wrote a year ago that was I was able to sort of recirculate and put onto the account, and it came at a fitting time because it's like Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. Uh, so check in on the men in your life. But where was it? Oh, yeah. So my hands are now coming back to deck to like being in the business. But Rose was incredible in the sort of uh first few weeks of everything going live. You were messaging people, and I think we I think we've built it up so much in our head that we know what it is, and you know, I think we've almost like envisioned conversations with people and like getting people on board to something, but we haven't actually done that reaching out and you know, getting them on board. And I think a lot of people like were fat found the account and you know found the website, but we're just sort of following it and weren't taking that next step. So you were taking that next step and reaching out to them and almost be she was our she was our chief marketing officer doing what she does best. Um, and where was I going? Oh, yeah, you were reaching out to people and just also opening a conversation to understand how we can get them on the website, you know, not just checking out the account. Because I saw today our Instagram account has reached 88,000 people. Have you done it? And I'm like, so where are you going?
SPEAKER_05:Why are you not going out to the website? You know, maybe we need a little bit more. It's insane to look at that information. Like the accounts reached. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Have you looked at that number? That was the one that's 88, 82,000.
SPEAKER_05:No, so the total accounts total accounts reached is almost it's it's 200,000 plus.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:That is crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Like, how are there 200,000 people? And I do think there is a sense, it's exactly like what you said before, of you it's new and people don't quite know what it is, and it just takes those few, I think the it's exponential growth, and it will start to build momentum, and then it will just keep going, hopefully. And we just have to keep facilitating that process. But yeah, definitely people are looking at it.
SPEAKER_03:So and we have workshopped the pricing. We've also that was a feedback that we took on board in some of your communications with people. It was it also became clear that whilst where it was originally at is what we sort of believe in it to be and believe in it to be priced at, without there being people on it, it does lose its value. And so we are sort of we have readjusted and we've gone with the flow. CFO has came on and we said we gotta do something.
SPEAKER_05:Um we simplified it a little bit, we just made it one thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Which actually should that we'll announce on the I wanted to announce it but I was like, I'll wait until we chat and we can like make a Canva or something to be like we are now$2.99 a month. One one membership.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think um it it that maybe won't be the case forever, but for now in terms of what is needed, because the reality is, and I'll I'll make a video about this too, but like the reality is there's a paywall because A, the people that we're speaking to are being very gracious with their time, knowledge, everything. Like that has been probably like if one of the most, if not the most positive and fun things about the whole process is having those conversations, the moral histories interviews. Um, and there needs to be some kind of barrier to entry for those. And we're not stopping them from telling their story anywhere else, but we just want it this whole thing to be in the classical realm. So there needs to be some kind of motivation. If you like if you're not in the classical world, I don't know why you would join something like that. Yeah, um, and also because we have bigger plans for it in the future, and that needs to be financed by we would like to reinvest into resources that will go right back to the community, and I think oh, you know, at some point in the future, if we're able to have some kind of impact more broadly outside of the Pilates world, whether that's you know, just in some like cause that we care about, I think that would also be great too, because Pilates is very kind of like. Instagram, like I believe in the method a lot, and it's great, but it's very kind of like Instagram, Pilates, girls getting matcha, blah blah blah. And I think there could be kind of a Pilates for good expansion of this.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, 100%. It's kind of weirdly, it's funny with there's so much I want to push in the like in that to that whole conversation we were having about like fitness influencer, Middle East, like Lebanon, that conversation. Where I'm like, I really want to show that women do like you know high-intensity trading and running and stuff. Yeah, and it's like it's so funny because I am the last person who will ever be bashing on Pilates. I am quite literally a Pilates instructor. It is my job. I believe in it so much. But I'm like, but not even not that Pilates, because do whatever Pilates you want, but I want to show that there is, I wanted to just go back and say it's not that I'm dissing on the girlies for doing Pilates. Do whatever you want, babe. I just want to show that women can do other things, but I will. It's so funny because whenever I've been talking about like the running and stuff to everyone, I'm like, yeah, but but Pilates, like please, I don't want anyone to think I'm abandoning our world. Yeah, it's a pretty amazing method. Oh, it's literally like transformational. I mean, I see also a lot of like and I'm like, I don't know if I'll ever get into all those like online discourses because there's a lot of debate that is ever going on on the internet about like can Pilates change your body? And a lot of stuff about like it's always PTs and Pilates instructors fighting each other because you know the PTs will say, unless you're doing strength training, you can't change your body, Pilates instructors will say it can change your body, and you know, it's just like a cycle of conversation that goes on and on and on.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Um need a bit of both, need a bit of everything.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know what? That is truly what I've where I've come to with fitness as a whole, is you need a bit of a all and that's not the answer anyone ever wants to hear because it's not the easy answer.
SPEAKER_05:It's not, but that's what you gotta do. You gotta move your body in all different ways. Um also I'm gonna have to go in a moment because I have yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, exciting. Um, is there any last recaps you had would like to give? I feel like I yapped a lot today.
SPEAKER_05:But it kind of felt like though. I feel like that was the right time for that because you've just been through this, you know, transformative two weeks, month, really. Um no, I feel I definitely like doing this. I feel like getting back into the I miss I miss sticky notes.
SPEAKER_03:Um I was about to tell you, I was like, I feel like if we can get it back almost weekly, I'd be so down because it's uh I also um there's the someone who there's a few people who we can interview for sticky notes um if we want to. There is a women's group in Riyadh called RWG, which my mom is a part of, but the lady, Suzanne or Suze, she's called, who run like she set up this whole thing a couple of years ago. She's Australian, but she moved over here, and it's like now taken over the whole country, and it's like about getting women into fitness. I should probably do that. Yeah, and I was telling my mom this, and she's like, Oh, I already told Suze that she would that you guys would probably want to interview her. Like, she's and she already said yes. I was like, seriously, let's do that.
SPEAKER_05:Let's hope that there's her. We can try to record, we can record another episode next week and plans and stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, she's currently out of the country, but whenever she gets back, yeah. And then there's also the the client I had that like founded that magazine would be a cool one to try. It's like a woman's led thing.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, totally. I'll do some brainstorming here too, because there's definitely people here that would be good to talk to.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Um, also, did you see uh oh we'll text on what's up? There's the our the interview is a think a go-ahead for in a few weeks' time, so long as the time works for you.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, cool. Perfect.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's a Saturday. Yeah, big things coming.
SPEAKER_05:Cool. Big things coming, episode 13.
SPEAKER_03:Whoa, that is crazy.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, cool. Thanks for listening, everyone. Ciao.
SPEAKER_04:Love you, Layla. Love you, Ross. It was a long one today.