The Parenting Journey: Learning, Letting Go & Growing With Your Child

In this episode of the ABCs of Parenting Adult Children podcast, host James Moffitt speaks with John Chinaka, a retired educator and author, about the unique challenges of parenting adult children. They discuss John’s personal parenting journey, the importance of family values, and the role of education and extracurricular activities in shaping children

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Richard Jones. I am an RN with over 34 years of Nursing Experience, much of that experience working with young adults in the corrections system. 

Hello, James here !

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Transcript

James Moffitt (00:01.25)
Hello and welcome to ABC's of Parenting Adult Children podcast. My name is James Moffitt and I will be your host. Today we have a special guest, John Chinaka. I guess I'm pronouncing that correctly. All right. John Chinaka is going to be here. John, how are you doing?

Dr. John N Chanaca (00:13.064)
Absolutely.

Dr. John N Chanaca (00:19.017)
Doing great, James. Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

James Moffitt (00:21.966)
Absolutely. do me a favor and introduce yourself to the listening audience.

Dr. John N Chanaca (00:27.899)
Okay, John Chanaka retired. Jane and I have been retired for about 15 years and we were former teachers, educators. I was a counselor for 25 years in the public schools and also had a private marriage and family counseling practice.

I've done lots of things. I have two wonderful sons that are grown. They're in their 50s. So we have grandchildren, three grandchildren. We live in the Myrtle Beach area, South Carolina.

James Moffitt (01:01.986)
Wonderful.

James Moffitt (01:06.787)
we live very close to each other. That's interesting.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:09.757)
You're in, you're in, yeah, Ghost Creek, that's right.

James Moffitt (01:12.568)
Goose Creek.

Yeah. Just outside of North Charleston. Yeah. I actually come, I come to a surf side once a month to play poker.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:18.045)
That's right. Okay. So we're.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:25.979)
Okay, well you're not far away. Yeah, we're going down to Charleston for our 55th wedding anniversary. That'll be on the first day of spring, March 21st.

James Moffitt (01:36.096)
Okay, well we'll have to hook up sometime in person.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:39.975)
Yeah, yeah, be cool.

James Moffitt (01:42.414)
Yeah. So, so tell us a little bit about your parenting story.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:48.303)
Yeah, mean Jane and I are personal parenting and so on. We raised our children in Pennsylvania, the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. And after Jane was teaching for a while, we decided to have our children and so we had two boys. They're about two years apart and we were very fortunate. We lived in

the mountains of Pennsylvania. And I found a house that was surrounded by 10,000 acres of woods. we had one acre and it was right in the middle of the 10,000 acres. So it was like a little house on the prairie, literally, because the guy who owned all the woods and so on, said, yeah, I said, you can take a...

James Moffitt (02:29.164)
Wow. Wow.

Dr. John N Chanaca (02:40.671)
all the wood you want, you if it's dead and so on, use it for a fireplace and for heating your house. you know, you enjoy the woods just like yourself, you know, it used to be former farmland. You'll see farm rows and bottles will be in there and all kinds of things. And you can just, you know, enjoy the land and so on, just don't ruin it. So we said, oh, that's great. So basically our kids were raised in that kind of environment. We a huge garden. We had chickens. had

animals of all sorts. And I'm only saying this because a lot of the books that we're doing now in our retirement years have to do with our children and growing up in that kind of environment. And we wanted to make sure the books were wholesome, they taught ethical and moral values, and that they were beautifully illustrated. And so a lot of the books that we have done come from that.

that background. And so we raised the kids there until they were about 12. The oldest one was 12. And we got a chance to move down to South Carolina. And both of us teaching Jane was home during that all that time of raising the kids in Pennsylvania. And we moved down to South Carolina and started both teaching and being involved in our professional work as educators.

James Moffitt (04:05.87)
Did y'all homeschool?

Dr. John N Chanaca (04:07.877)
No, we did not. The kids did go to regular public school when we were in Pennsylvania. But we got involved in lot of colonial things. The Quiet Valley Farm Museum is there. We started to learn all kinds of colonial traits and tasks and skills. So we belonged to that environment. And so we chopped our own wood. We raised our own plants, our own food.

had an orchard, we raised animals, we kind of home, know, make butter and candles and all kinds of stuff. So came up very close to the land and using the land and everything.

James Moffitt (04:42.168)
Right?

James Moffitt (04:52.312)
Kind of sounds like the Waltons.

Dr. John N Chanaca (04:52.521)
soon.

Yeah, it was a lot like the fact it was one of our favorite movies, by the way, when the kids were growing up the Waltons grown up on the Waltons and

James Moffitt (05:00.918)
Yeah. Yeah. We, we watched green acres and Walton's and all those family friendly, PG 13 types of, shows back in the seventies.

Dr. John N Chanaca (05:06.493)
Yeah

Dr. John N Chanaca (05:14.835)
The kids were all immersed in that kind of culture and little house on the prairie and yeah, not another one. So yeah, and we had a wonderful time. I was the only one working. I mean, professionally earning money. Jane was a homemaker, which was still wonderful. She had a full-time job doing that and allowed me to go to school really. I mean, not only teach, but.

James Moffitt (05:20.225)
yeah, absolutely. Loved it.

James Moffitt (05:35.863)
Right?

Dr. John N Chanaca (05:42.431)
finish three master's degree in the doctorate. Yeah.

James Moffitt (05:45.997)
wow. You're a smart fella.

Dr. John N Chanaca (05:49.519)
No, no, not smart. Just go to school a lot. That's all.

James Moffitt (05:55.049)
well.

That's, that's pretty impressive that you've accumulated those accolades. I think it's something to be proud of.

Dr. John N Chanaca (06:05.447)
Well, we had a lot of fun doing it. Okay. Then when we did come to South Carolina, of course, the kids still were in public school and Jane and I were teaching and we got really deep involved in the counseling. And believe it or not, in the evening we had a martial arts program. had, we taught, my sons and I became black belts when we were in Pennsylvania. We came down here. There was no, in our area was no martial arts school.

And so what we were doing was training at night and on the weekends and so on. And the neighborhood kids, parents and so on. So was doing this and we started it in our backyard in our rec room. Then my wife kicked us out of there and we went to a church nearby church. And for about four years I had about 24 students there and 12 of them became black belts. We later went into a rec program. We had over 700 students then for 17.

James Moffitt (06:49.699)
Right?

James Moffitt (07:01.288)
wow.

Dr. John N Chanaca (07:02.313)
for years. That was Korean Tung Soo Do. There's two major Korean martial arts that came out of Korea. One was Taekwondo and the other one was Tung Soo Do.

James Moffitt (07:04.866)
What type of martial arts?

James Moffitt (07:10.456)
Huh, I'm not heard of that.

James Moffitt (07:21.068)
Right. I took some of that when I was younger. Yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (07:26.225)
So they're all similar and we met lots of interesting people doing that. I mean, it was unbelievable how many people, imagine how many students we had when we had 700 during the year. I wasn't doing all the teaching for that, by the way, those 12 black belts that I had, I had put them to work. And so we had a lot of martial arts things going on.

James Moffitt (07:52.951)
That's wonderful.

Dr. John N Chanaca (07:53.875)
along with our regular work during the day, our regular jobs. So we were busy.

James Moffitt (07:59.458)
Well, as they say, I guess the grass didn't grow under your feet very well, did it?

Dr. John N Chanaca (08:03.889)
We moved around a lot, James. We were full of energy, we were young, and we were full of energy and excitement. The kids were growing up too, they motivate you, the children motivate you so much.

James Moffitt (08:06.039)
Right?

James Moffitt (08:20.799)
sure. Yeah. We, we raised four of our own.

Dr. John N Chanaca (08:23.857)
Okay, yeah, so.

James Moffitt (08:25.39)
they, uh, they're grown and gone. And my wife and I now have two dogs and two cats. Just when I thought we were going to be empty nester, she loaded up the house with animals and, uh, it's just like having toddlers in the house. You know, you had to take the dogs out every two or three hours. And, and if you don't, clean up after them and you got to feed them and water them. And you know, every time, if I ever want to go out of town, I've always got to figure out, what are we going to do with the kids? He's going to watch them, you know,

Dr. John N Chanaca (08:35.487)
There you go.

Dr. John N Chanaca (08:42.889)
Thank you.

Dr. John N Chanaca (08:48.403)
Hi.

Dr. John N Chanaca (08:55.069)
Yeah. Well, we were loaded with pets also. fact, as I said, that's how a lot of the books that we had. Let me show you one right there, for example.

James Moffitt (08:55.17)
just like having children, but,

James Moffitt (09:08.578)
Right?

Dr. John N Chanaca (09:09.489)
OK, this is Hunter and those are my Jane and I are two sons, Mark and Joel. OK, they're mostly true stories that we you know there was a cat we had called Cricket. Here's one, I believe it or not, a rabbit that we had once. Babe, our floppy-eared rabbit. This is a cat, Patches the Cat is a Thief.

James Moffitt (09:16.246)
okay.

James Moffitt (09:22.394)
Okay.

James Moffitt (09:29.752)
that's funny.

James Moffitt (09:33.464)
Right?

James Moffitt (09:38.926)
wow, cool.

Dr. John N Chanaca (09:39.135)
And we did some about our grandchildren also. Here's one about where'd the moon go. That's something one of our grandchildren said. Here's another one who needed some advice about bullying and teasing and so on. So a lot of that pet business, know, yeah, you know, we just had some great stories to tell. That's how we started writing them.

James Moffitt (09:54.363)
That's it.

James Moffitt (10:05.686)
So the children's books, what, what age group are those for?

Dr. John N Chanaca (10:09.407)
Mostly, the ones that I was holding up, mostly like five till about nine, I guess, about eight or nine years old. We do have some books that are middle grade. Like here's one about the key maker. This is more for teenagers. So we try to do the whole spectrum. And then of course we have a bunch of parenting books that are

James Moffitt (10:21.069)
I got you.

Dr. John N Chanaca (10:38.271)
that are coming out also, we can get into that a little bit more when we start talking a little bit about parenting and such.

But it's been exciting and fun and really quite by accident that those books came about.

Dr. John N Chanaca (10:55.935)
Yeah. first 10 years of our retirement, we traveled all over the world. We built a new home in this Myrtle Beach area and, you know, saw our grandchildren, was involved with them. And about five years ago, my mother-in-law, who was in her nineties, came to live with us because she couldn't live alone anymore. And so,

James Moffitt (11:22.168)
Right.

Dr. John N Chanaca (11:23.615)
She was in a wheelchair and had memory problems, dementia. So that slowed everything down. And then we rolled it into COVID that was in 21, 22. And so instead of, we couldn't go anyplace, 24 seven, we had to stay home with her. So we started to think about, maybe we can make a legacy. We can start putting some books together and stories that were so funny and.

interesting and they did teach lessons. Why don't we start doing this? That's how we started writing those. And that's been the last, that's been the last, yeah, about three years now we've been doing that.

James Moffitt (11:58.741)
Okay.

James Moffitt (12:04.206)
So it sounds like the books are very relatable to people with adult, for children of, you know, like I told you from 12 to 40, but there's parents in our group that probably have the younger children. So those, sound very relatable.

Dr. John N Chanaca (12:21.855)
All right, and grandparents also. lot of...

Grandparents find these things interesting for their grandchildren.

James Moffitt (12:31.66)
Right. So, feel free to talk about your books and, and, and tell the listening audience, something about them and, and, let everybody know how they can actually find them. I guess they're on Amazon or whatever.

Dr. John N Chanaca (12:41.737)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. John N Chanaca (12:47.769)
Yeah, we do have 12 already published on Amazon and we do have five new ones coming out. These are the new ones.

James Moffitt (12:57.527)
Okay.

Dr. John N Chanaca (12:58.387)
They'll be coming out this year. There's another one about my granddaughter and Scout, one of the dogs that we they have that side of the family has. Power parenting is coming out and I'll talk a little bit about that. We've just done this one on cyber warriors, which is interesting. It's on cyber safety for elementary school school children. My son, my son Joel, was also part of this publishing team.

James Moffitt (13:21.57)
Right? Good.

Dr. John N Chanaca (13:28.799)
is a DNR officer, Department of Natural Resources at Gaymorden. He's done this one and he's also done this one, is for teenagers and people going into their almost to their 20s really. It's a beautifully illustrated book, sci-fi book, Christian sci-fi book. Those are some of the books that are coming out and we're having a lot of

James Moffitt (13:46.274)
Right?

James Moffitt (13:53.666)
Okay.

James Moffitt (13:57.315)
Yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (13:58.195)
Fun with that.

James Moffitt (13:59.8)
I would love for you to send me all that information in an email so that I can post it on my website for people to see.

Dr. John N Chanaca (14:07.583)
8 be wonderful. By the way, you wanted me to talk a little bit about the parenting stuff. All your listeners are by the way. I'd love to give this to them. This is part three. Of a survival guide for parents. We have part one. You see that guys having a little problem hanging onto that flagpole. As a parent, here's part two. Here comes a tsunami. And he's got a he's got an umbrella, so that's not going to help.

James Moffitt (14:27.532)
Right?

James Moffitt (14:33.709)
Okay.

Dr. John N Chanaca (14:38.513)
And this is ladies walking into a tornado. That's the way parenting sometimes feels. But this part three, by the way, is, as I said, will be totally free as a flip book, which is nothing more than the whole book. You and you click on it and it turns the page, you one at a time. So this, I'll make sure the link comes in there so that you can, all your listeners and viewers can.

James Moffitt (14:43.788)
Right, absolutely.

James Moffitt (14:58.978)
I got you.

Dr. John N Chanaca (15:08.607)
can have that one free, okay? But, well, I'll I can send them both ways. It'll be like an ebook and a flip book, okay? So they're all digital and everything. they do is click on, they click on them and it opens automatically. I mean, it's right in front of them, right there on their computer, whatever.

James Moffitt (15:10.488)
So it's an electronic book.

James Moffitt (15:19.086)
I got you.

James Moffitt (15:28.866)
Yeah, that's, those are awesome resources for parents.

Dr. John N Chanaca (15:32.319)
Yeah, and I think they might find this interesting and maybe helpful. I hope they do. But this whole adventure into parenting and so on came from basically the counseling I did in the elementary school. And I had a Christian marriage and family practice that I did on Saturdays and sometimes in the summer when I had a lot of free time in the summertime. So, yeah.

James Moffitt (15:53.089)
Okay.

Dr. John N Chanaca (16:02.973)
We packed it all into a program called Power Parenting, nurturing successful students in the modern world today.

James Moffitt (16:11.768)
So, so a lot of your books, are they faith based?

Dr. John N Chanaca (16:16.387)
Yes, they are. Yes, we're not ashamed of being Christians at all. And a lot of the great advice that comes from the Bible can be shared. And certainly parenting is one of the big things that the Bible does talk about relationships and parenting and how to treat each other, marriage and all that kind of stuff.

James Moffitt (16:37.443)
Right?

We'll talk about how y'all's faith integrated with your family life and raising your kids.

Dr. John N Chanaca (16:52.551)
Well, I would say it was major. It was number one, it was major. I need to say a couple of things. Jane and I were not perfect parents. In fact, you'll notice the name of the book is not perfect parenting, it's power parenting. Okay, there's a big difference. There's no such thing as a perfect parent. It's nice to try to be that and everything else, but that's what Christ is all about.

James Moffitt (17:19.66)
Wait, but wait, if you look at Facebook, there's all sorts of perfect people there.

Dr. John N Chanaca (17:25.087)
Yeah, and on television too, I noticed.

James Moffitt (17:28.908)
Yeah. Yeah. Everybody looks like they have the perfect life, the perfect storybook life, especially all the, all the influencers, all the, all the, all the creators and influencers on social media.

Dr. John N Chanaca (17:35.047)
Now, no one does. Yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (17:43.199)
Exactly. And it's a joke for sure. You know, I once had a person tell me, and it's so true, life is like running through a briar patch, okay? You know you're gonna get cut. You're gonna get bruised, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna get cut, ripped, torn, and when you come out the other side, you're gonna be bleeding and hurting pretty badly. No one goes through life unscathed, okay, period.

It's either disease or death or injury or problems with the world or situations with your boss or employer. But no one comes out unscathed. You're going to run into problems. And parenting is one of the biggest crucibles there is for developing your own character as a parent, not only to children.

children, as yourself developing. And then I once heard it told that you have three times to grow up. Once when you're a child, the second time when you're a parent, and if you're lucky, the third time when you're a grandparent. So it's a learning experience all the time. It's a character developing kind of a thing. You say, I'm sorry a lot.

forgive me a lot and you learn slowly along the way. And one thing nice about your children though, as you well know with four children, it's your legacy though. If you want to see what your real work is all about, look at your children, what kind of children are they? What kind of grandchildren do you have?

What kind of people are you helping to make? And I say helping because we talk about a family, James, we're talking about an extended thing. We're talking about aunts and uncles and grandparents and all the rest in the community. Father and mother have the first major part, but all these other people help, don't you think?

James Moffitt (19:50.99)
Sure.

James Moffitt (20:00.888)
Sometimes it takes a village.

Dr. John N Chanaca (20:03.291)
Yeah, and you know they get they get part of that from their schools too. That's part of the village. You know the school they go to the teachers they come in contact everything and and that's why we had to write this power parenting because what it was is an attempt to teach parents what they can do at home to nurture their children to be successful students in the modern world and along the way they develop those

James Moffitt (20:11.0)
Sure.

Dr. John N Chanaca (20:32.911)
for their children those character traits that are so important in school like honesty and respect and hard work and perseverance, really the fruits of the spirit if you're following the Bible point of view and how to keep that in your family so you don't go crazy.

Family is to be a place of refuge, a place of healing, a place of building up, encouragement. The world will beat you up enough when you get out there, as you well know. Whether it's your boss or employees or people or the neighbors or anybody else, you need to come home and have a place to recoup.

James Moffitt (21:04.151)
Right?

James Moffitt (21:16.386)
Well, I like to tell people that churches are not full of perfect people. Churches are a lot like hospitals because everybody that comes in is broken in some way and sick and everybody really needs the grace. Everybody needs the healing hand of Jesus in their lives. So yeah, my wife and I are Christ followers and we're not perfect. We've made mistakes and we weren't

Dr. John N Chanaca (21:34.559)
Exactly.

Dr. John N Chanaca (21:44.712)
Wonderful.

James Moffitt (21:45.858)
We certainly weren't perfect parents. And, one of the things we talk about on this podcast is that.

When you have children, you don't necessarily get an owner's manual. Yeah, you do. There, there are resources out there. The Bible, your church, the supports could be a great support system. aunts, uncles, grandparents, know, they're in your hard baked into your family, assuming that those people are healthy themselves and can provide a healthy support for your family. and you don't have any, you don't have any toxic relationships floating around causing damage, but,

Dr. John N Chanaca (21:57.907)
No you don't.

Dr. John N Chanaca (22:16.447)
point.

James Moffitt (22:24.056)
So yeah, it's, it takes a village and, I, I, one of the things I love about this podcast is that I get to talk to a lot of, I don't want to say subject matter experts because you know what the definition of an expert is, right?

Dr. John N Chanaca (22:40.622)
No, Tommy.

James Moffitt (22:42.766)
It's a has-been drip under pressure.

Dr. John N Chanaca (22:48.223)
there you are.

James Moffitt (22:48.648)
X expert. None of us are. Well, on the flip side, maybe some of us are experts, you know, has been drips under pressure. But anyway, so yeah, I, I like to,

Dr. John N Chanaca (22:56.977)
Okay. Yeah.

James Moffitt (23:06.114)
I like to talk about parenting stories, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of bad parenting stories out there, you know, because, because we're all so broken and we all have addictions that we fight with and we, came from broken homes. came from abusive families and, there are a lot of parents out there that are, they're having to rewrite and undo the generational curse, the transgenerational curse of those.

broken homes and those addictions and those abuses that people suffer from. And so they have to, when they become parents, they have to engage some emotional intelligence and identify the problems in their lives, those traumas in their lives that they're suffering from and need to.

get past and get healing so that they can be as healthy and whole as they can be as a man and wife and as a parenting unit so that they can pass on healthy things and good things to their children versus the garbage that, you know, when we parent, typically we parent the way we were raised. We raise our kids the way we were raised. That's kind of hard-baked entire psychology.

Dr. John N Chanaca (24:30.111)
Exactly.

James Moffitt (24:31.818)
I, my sister and I were raised in a very, very abusive home life. And we were, we were adopted in Germany and I'm at the age of one and two at an orphanage. And I'm so very thankful that my military family adopted us and brought us to America. And I'm very thankful that we had, probably had a better life than we might've had, I'm assuming.

Dr. John N Chanaca (24:42.367)
James Moffitt (24:59.31)
Especially physically and financially we were provided for in ways that we probably never would have been provided for at that orphanage. But my parents did not understand what it was to demonstrate love to their children. And they didn't understand what it was like or that it was okay for children to act and be like children. And there, I was raised in the 70s and 80s and

Dr. John N Chanaca (25:23.358)
Right.

James Moffitt (25:27.502)
60, 70s and 80s. I was born in 61. So their rule was, that children were to be seen, not heard, you know? And when you go out into public, you, you know, we would sit on the couch together and we wouldn't, we wouldn't speak unless spoken to. And we certainly were not allowed to run around and have fun or yell or, you know, do, do the things that children should be doing. You know, when you're a child, you should be allowed to be a child.

Dr. John N Chanaca (25:51.913)
Right.

James Moffitt (25:55.458)
Now, obviously when you make mistakes, you know, boundaries need to be established and you need to be taught manners. need to be taught good behavior and things like that. But our parents wanted us to be perfect, you know, all the way, all the way to adulthood, we were expected to be perfect. And, so anyway, you know, my story is not unlike a lot of other people, you know, from the children, you know, baby boomers and

Dr. John N Chanaca (25:55.647)
Sure.

Dr. John N Chanaca (26:09.225)
This is that perfect comes in again.

Right.

James Moffitt (26:23.042)
You know, we had parents from the silent generation that, you know, that I want to, I want to think they did the best they could with what they had. You know, they, they raised us the way they were raised. And unless they had some emotional intelligence or had a support system around them that could provide them with guidance, that's exactly how they raised us. Right. And so part of this, part of my purpose for this podcast is for people to hear some of these parenting stories and hear about.

Dr. John N Chanaca (26:43.401)
Thank you.

James Moffitt (26:52.718)
stories that they can resonate with and understand how to get the healing that they need to get so they can be better parents, so they can raise better, well-adjusted children that will become intelligent, wholesome, healthy, you know, adults in society, you know, bring value to society.

Dr. John N Chanaca (26:56.785)
Okay.

Dr. John N Chanaca (27:14.217)
contributing adults.

Well, I've got a story for you. want a story? I was born in 1947. So I'm 77 years old. My parents, my father, especially his life was kind of amazing. He was raised. He came actually was born on the way over from Greece. My grandparents were Greek. And

James Moffitt (27:20.568)
Okay.

Dr. John N Chanaca (27:44.689)
When he came over, he was born in America, but his mother died just a month or so after he was born. And so he was tossed around. My grandfather, he was so distraught, he had six or seven children, been siblings from my father, and he took four or five of them back to Greece. He was just...

befuddled and so on. left the other children in America with relatives and my father was one of them, a baby. And so he went from an aunt to another family to another family and finally wound up when he was about eight or nine years old with an uncle who was a bootlicker, liar, a cheat, a murderer, all kinds of things. My father helped him in the business. He said, you don't need to go to school, you help me.

And so from about nine or 10 years old to about 16 years old, that's what my father did. Stole, lied, did everything, helped out my uncle with this business. And finally, when he was about 16 years old, his brothers who were left back in America, and the other ones, by the way, found their way from Greece all the way through with the Red Cross back to the United States. So now there were all six of them now inside the United States.

They were older. were the only he was the youngest one. They captured him in Winsok at Rhode Island at a basketball game and raised them in their own house in Bridgeport, Connecticut. Now the oldest brother had accepted Christ as a savior. He was born again Christian. He talked to my father over and over. He knew the uncle that my father had been raised with and he knew what he was going through and.

James Moffitt (29:23.019)
wow.

Dr. John N Chanaca (29:39.647)
know, my father would have none of it. Okay, we just have none of it. So he went into World War II, was four years in the Navy, came back out, and went back to the uncle and so on. And then in discussing with him, finally he accepted Christ as his personal savior. Met my mother and I was born in that situation. I asked my father once, I said, dad,

We know about your life, you know, the uncles talk about it and so on. What a difficult life it was. I don't see you like that. You're loving, you're kind, you're helpful, you're understanding, you're patient. I said, how did you do that? He said, John, I didn't do it. It was Christ having me look at life differently. I just did what wasn't done to me.

Now that's unusual, James, that someone would have that kind of insight to be able to do that, okay? And he was very on fire for Christ and he made sure that we were going to church and learning about Jesus and the love of Jesus. And chapter 13 of Corinthians talks about really what love is all about, what real love is about. Let me just read a little bit of it says, Paul says,

James Moffitt (30:37.08)
Sure.

Dr. John N Chanaca (31:02.981)
Love suffers long and is kind, shows no endy, it's not puffed up, it does not behave itself unseemingly, it seeks not its good, it is not easily provoked, and it thinks no evil. Love does not rejoice in iniquity, but it rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, it believes all things, it hopes all things, it endures all things. So if you want to challenge

continue to grow in love with your children, this is real love. It'll not only develop them, but also profoundly affect your life. I know it did my father's, and that started the ball rolling for my sister and my brother and myself being raised in that kind of environment. So you're right, the family does mean a lot in how you're raised.

James Moffitt (31:52.002)
And that's the polar opposite of what the world tells us.

Dr. John N Chanaca (31:57.875)
Go ahead, tell me more about that. What do mean?

James Moffitt (32:00.834)
Well, you know,

James Moffitt (32:06.679)
You know what the world's like? I mean, it's it, yeah, it is tough and it's a strong survive. You know, you, you,

Dr. John N Chanaca (32:10.057)
Tough.

James Moffitt (32:19.682)
the, or the one of some, one of the old sayings, you know, my, from my dad's era, man, men don't cry and you, you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you, you earn a living and you, prove your metal by what you can accomplish, what you can accomplish, right? You know, and, and so.

Dr. John N Chanaca (32:31.859)
Mm.

Dr. John N Chanaca (32:38.431)
Right.

James Moffitt (32:43.63)
In 13, it talks about love, love, joy, peace, kindness, joy, gentleness. All those attributes of love that's talked about in the Bible is not something that's championed in today's society.

Dr. John N Chanaca (33:01.285)
it's not, it's not, let's say, running rampant in the world. No.

James Moffitt (33:06.774)
No. Well, I'm talking about the modern society. not talking about...

church tradition or denominationalism or, or, you know, the church as a whole, right? Because we know the church as a whole is, is sick and broken just like we are. And, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of garbage in denominations that is taught to kids and to adults. You know, you see things that happen in church, probably your own church. I see it in my church. Not, not so much as I've seen in the past, but there are traditions that

is being taught from church leadership, you can't find it in the Bible. You look in your Bible, you don't find it. Right? And there's so many people that go to church and they are spoon-fed what the Bible says, quote unquote, or that's what they're told. But that's one hour on Sunday on one day of the week. The other six days of the week.

You're supposed to be reading the Bible for yourself. You're supposed to be learning for yourself. And a lot of people, the only thing that they're getting fed spiritually is what they hear from the pastor or the teachers of their local church one hour a week. Right? So, if you're not teaching yourself, if you're not reading the Word and you're not digging into what the Word means to

Dr. John N Chanaca (34:20.361)
Mm-hmm.

James Moffitt (34:42.798)
to you and to your life and your family's life, then what's going to fill you up? It's going to be all the garbage, all the social media, the, the, TV. you know, I, I just, I hate to even turn on news, local news, because it's just full of so much garbage and so much negativity about all the stuff that's going on in our world and politics and just all the

Dr. John N Chanaca (35:02.527)
Right? Right.

James Moffitt (35:07.522)
The stuff that you and I don't endorse, you know, and we don't believe. But that's the world, right? If you read Revelations, it tells you exactly what the world's going to be like. And I don't want to turn this into a Bible study and I don't want to turn it into... I don't want to...

Dr. John N Chanaca (35:10.729)
Yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (35:24.767)
I think it has a purpose though. You're talking to parents and we're talking about some guidance through them and so on. really, the world's a selfish place. That's what we're talking about. Selflessness and selfishness. And so you've got to deal with that. mean, don't have to be a church person. The church isn't going to save you. The church is not going to save you.

There's only one thing that's going to save you and that's Christ. Look at Christ, don't look at the church. So how did Jesus live? What did he say? What did he talk about? What did he stand for? What is it all about? Well, it's about love. That's what it's about. Okay. Agape love. And so God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe it in him to not perish but have everlasting life. That kind of love was selfless love. God didn't have to do that. The way Christ lived on his...

his on the earth was selflessness. He said, be a servant. If you want to be first, be last. Be a servant. So the same kind of thing applies in a family. What do a husband and wife talk about when he gets home and he's tired? Is he putting up his feet on the couch and watching television and asking for a beer while his wife is trying to make supper? See, it's about selfishness. That's what we're talking about. Or is he just being a servant?

Is he getting up there helping her? She's tired too. She worked all day. They've got the children crying, one's sick. How do you relate to each other as people? Well, Jesus tells you about that. So yeah, you're not off balance talking about these kinds of things. That's what our power parenting is all about is developing these kind of characteristics, okay? And why? Because you love each other. Now, if you say, don't love my wife,

I don't love my husband. I don't love my children. Well, you got a problem. Okay. I would, I would say he would say you've got a big problem. Okay. And that is, you know, you're not in a nice place. All right. You're not in a, in a comfortable place and enjoyable place. It's, you know, you don't want to go home. Okay. If you think there's some life there and there's some possibilities, how do you bring it around? We'll start being more as servant, being selfless.

James Moffitt (37:23.554)
Yeah, I would say.

Right.

Dr. John N Chanaca (37:47.571)
instead of sell fish. And so you start listening to your children. What's the matter with them? Well, what are they talking about? What are they? What do they want? What are their friends? What's going on in school? What are the subjects they're taking? You get my point? You're interested, you're involved, you're encouraging, you're passionate. You're trying to do, you're engaged because you love them. They're your legacy. They're going to grow up and become, you know, adults with children of their own.

James Moffitt (38:02.586)
yeah.

James Moffitt (38:06.456)
You're engaged.

Dr. John N Chanaca (38:16.339)
And that's going to slap you back in the face again someday. I guarantee it.

James Moffitt (38:19.758)
You remember the, remember the saying latch key children? Yeah. Well, mom and dad's off working. the kids have a key to the house and they come home and they're supposed to do chores. That's what I had to do. And, kids will be kids. so kids may or may not do the chores to the level that you expect them to do, but then what do they do? They get into trouble. They get into shenanigans, right?

Dr. John N Chanaca (38:23.955)
Yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (38:44.155)
Exactly. Yep. You know, we were recently in Charlotte, Jane and I, and we visited the Billy Graham Library. It was so interesting. I've read lots of things about Billy Graham and so on, and his library is a wonderful, wonderful experience. But you know one of his biggest regrets in his life?

He didn't spend enough time with his family.

Dr. John N Chanaca (39:09.855)
He was in Switzerland one time and his kids were, you know, teenagers and all. And he happened to have a conference there and Ruth took the children, went over and met them in Switzerland. They were playing on the lawn and everything. He drove up, got out of the car and one of his kids looked to the mother and said, who's that mommy?

James Moffitt (39:31.18)
wow.

Dr. John N Chanaca (39:32.009)
She said, and he said, you know, in his videos there at that library, his biggest regret is he did not spend enough time at home raising his children. She did all the raising of those children. And in that he wished he would have asked them more questions and loved them more and got to know them more and was involved with them more and so on. Now, later on in his life, when they were adults, you know, they all got real close then.

James Moffitt (39:52.855)
Right?

Dr. John N Chanaca (40:00.401)
As those kids were growing up, he had very little contact with those children. She raised those children. So my point is this, okay, you got priorities. You gotta work. You gotta do things around the house. You've gotta clean the toilet and wash the dishes and all that kind of stuff. But how much time are you spending with your children, listening to them, observing them, interested in what they're doing, the skills they have?

James Moffitt (40:05.516)
Right?

Dr. John N Chanaca (40:27.185)
Involvements they have in sports or music or whatever they're doing, who are their friends? Okay, now we're talking about power parenting. And you got to do the same with your wife or your husband. Because as soon as you lose contact with those things, it's a juggling act, it's a balancing act. You start to lose ground, you start to lose touch. So that's just some of the kinds of things I would come in contact personally.

Jane and I did, also in the counseling that we did, the Christian marriage and family kind of counseling that we did, and also in the school counseling that I would run into. So it's the most important thing you can do, James.

James Moffitt (41:10.083)
Well.

James Moffitt (41:14.318)
I having people of faith on the podcast episodes because I want to encourage parents who may or may not have an upbringing in church or faith or may not... I didn't become a Christian until I was like 17, 18 years old. I was not raised in church. And I know by talking with and observing

Dr. John N Chanaca (41:35.903)
Okay.

James Moffitt (41:44.77)
people that were raised in the church and were raised in a Christ-filled home that I missed a whole lot, you know? And I had to make up for some of those things when I became an adult. And so I know that there are parents that are listening to this that may have been raised in a secular home like I was, and maybe are not familiar with.

or even know how to approach faith or even realize that, you can go to church. The church is an awesome support system for parents. Because they have pastoral counseling, have all Sunday school classes that teach kids a lot of wonderful things, a lot of biblical truths. So I want to encourage parents that are listening to this to

to not be afraid of engaging in those sorts of activities and to open yourself up to the possibility of having faith in your life, faith in Christ.

Dr. John N Chanaca (42:55.817)
Good point, good point. Now, I would say this also, I need to say this, There are a lot of fine parents out there that are not Christians, okay? They love their children, they love their wife, they love their husband, they love their families. They are showing genuine love, okay? They're showing selfless love. And that's wonderful. That's all possible, it's wonderful.

and it's good for the family. So you can have a wonderful family, loving family and so on. Now, when you start to talk about the spiritual side, because there's a lot of elements of the spiritual side that also bind your family together, make it stronger and make you be able to get through things because you believe in something beyond the physical, that you believe in spiritual.

entity exists and that we're all spiritual kinds of beings. Okay, so that's another part of family life. But yes, you can be a wonderful parent by showing these fruits of the Spirit. And it's interesting, even the Bible talks about that. We love because he first loved us, okay, is the verse. And that means we have the capacity for love, like Christ did, and like God does.

because they first loved us. So we are able to love, we're lovable and we're able to love because of what God did for us through Jesus Christ. Now again, there are so many people out there, they're saying, well, I have a good family and I'm not a Christian and so on, then that's exactly possible, okay? No doubt about that, yeah.

James Moffitt (44:42.584)
Sure, absolutely.

James Moffitt (44:47.96)
So this is all wonderful stuff. So I'm going to take a couple of questions off your profile.

Dr. John N Chanaca (44:56.617)
Sure.

James Moffitt (44:59.854)
It's like one of your, one of the questions is, is how do stories shape family values in today's society?

Dr. John N Chanaca (45:08.777)
Well, we're great believers, obviously in our family. And again, I don't speak from personal experience, you know, people that I've met, children that I've taught. Jane and I are experienced for 55 years of marriage with our children and so on is reading.

Stories to children, little children is wonderful. Jenny did it every night at bedtime for both kids. I'd sit and listen to her read, you know, at the bedside when I wasn't off to school in the evenings taking college classes. But, you know, that's why you have to have two. It's nice to have two people that love each other and raising children. OK, because you're you need to balance each other and help each other. But she would read.

Stories, children's stories that were wholesome, ethical, moral things. And you ask questions while you're reading the stories. Okay, and I'm talking about little kids now. They're two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight years old, nine. You know, right up into that age, children love to be read to. They love to talk about what they're reading. It gives you great opportunity to do that. Now,

These days, I don't know, there should be a lot of that. There's a lot of books available and there's a lot of good books out there that you can find these kinds of things to do that with your younger children. With older children, you're interested in what they are reading and what they're learning and what they're investigating, what they're researching, okay? And you have an opportunity to talk again about those kinds of things.

my one grandson is going to be an engineer. He's going to Clemson. He's going to be his third year in Clemson. And so, you know, they live nearby. So it's easy once or twice a week for us to cross paths and talk about what are you reading these? What are you studying in school right now? What are you reading? Have you read any new books? Have you read anything? What are you learning? What kind of science things are you learning?

Dr. John N Chanaca (47:20.863)
And it gives me a chance to refresh some of the science things that I might know about. And he's teaching me about things that he, so you're sharing information, whether it came from the computer or from the book or from, you know, you're sharing information. Uh, we don't allow, uh, the, the, the cell phones to go, know, when they come to visit and so on, they can do it in the beginning and everything. But then finally, when we were here to visit, we expect those things to be turned off or turned away.

And we sit eye to eye talking about their lives. You know, don't sit there with the little cell phone, the smartphones, you know, and watching television. Time is valuable. So we need to be able to get updated and find out what's going on and that kind of thing. So there's a lot of time for discussion about these kinds of valuable ideas and thoughts that come up in everyday life, along with books.

books that we've read, stories, even movies. Movies we've watched. Have you seen The Forge yet, James? The movie called The Forge?

James Moffitt (48:29.55)
I don't think so.

Dr. John N Chanaca (48:30.801)
Okay, it's wonderful. It's a new Christian movie that's just come out and it's going to be great. Yes, yes it is.

James Moffitt (48:35.404)
Is that part of the Angel Network? Okay, because we were introduced to the Angel Network when we went and watched the movie Homestead. And so I have a subscription to the Angel Network and it's like Netflix or any other streaming service, but it's faith-based streaming and content. And I haven't really watched any of the other shows or movies on there yet.

Dr. John N Chanaca (48:57.245)
Right.

James Moffitt (49:05.41)
But you said something about time and time is our most valuable resource. It's not.

Dr. John N Chanaca (49:11.891)
yeah, and we only get 24 hours. That's it.

James Moffitt (49:15.67)
Right, and we only get so many days and so many years on this life. I mean, the Bible says that our lives are like a vapor, you know, a season. One day we're here and the next day we're gone. You know, it's like throwing a rock in a pond. There's waves that go out, but after a while those waves dissipate and then you're forgotten, you know. And our hope as parents and grandparents is that we can leave a legacy behind and that we can leave something.

Dr. John N Chanaca (49:23.231)
Exactly, it's short.

Dr. John N Chanaca (49:34.367)
Exactly, exactly.

James Moffitt (49:44.406)
of ourselves that our children can carry forward. And that's one of the things I want to, that's why I like to write. I like to do photography. like doing this podcast because when I'm gone, my messages and my message, digitally will be around for a long time after I'm gone. know, that's right. so that, and that's what, these books that you're writing, you know, after you're gone,

Dr. John N Chanaca (50:03.003)
Exactly. Evergreen. It'll be evergreen.

James Moffitt (50:11.384)
You know, people are going to be on Amazon or wherever the books are and they're going to find them and they're going to go, wow, that guy's not around anymore, but look at this wonderful information. And so that's, that's what we, that's what we aspire to as parents and grandparents is to provide our, our children with a legacy that they can follow and they can teach their children.

Dr. John N Chanaca (50:34.331)
Exactly. And that's been valuable for us. And we get the added benefit that we have chronic. We have written down so many of the stories in our books about our children and our grandchildren that they'll want to keep these things and share them with their children. OK, as they look at what grandma and grandpa wrote when, know, when they were alive, that kind of thing. And this is the way my father handled this situation. Look, here's his picture in the in the book.

So yeah, for us, that was how we started out, James, is by writing these books for legacy. And then now it's kind of grown into other things. But Jane and I are keeping no profits from any of this, any of the books we make. We're giving it away. So we're enjoying building them, doing them, using them as a legacy and just sharing them and letting any profit be given away.

That's a fun thing for us too.

James Moffitt (51:36.078)
That's wonderful. So I want to read this from your listener takeaway that was on your profile. It says, listeners will gain insights into using children's literature as a tool to nurture family values while exploring ways to support their adult children with fresh perspectives on modern parenting challenges. So I like to ask

Dr. John N Chanaca (51:44.326)
Okay.

James Moffitt (52:05.282)
My guests at the end of the podcast, want, I want to give you an opportunity to, to, do like a little three to five minute elevator speech for listening audience. And, what, what, what is your most important message you could give them?

Dr. John N Chanaca (52:23.337)
that's good. Well, the most important message I could give them would be love each other. You you mentioned that time is so fleeting and you just don't have so much of it. And it goes so quickly that you should spend most of your time being grateful, thankful, loving, kind. And if you don't find those attributes in yourself, you need to

You need to ask yourself why. Why am I not loving care? Why am I not thankful for what I have? You came into this world with nothing. You're going out with nothing. So everything in between is extra. Is it that you're treating people in a selfish way? A nasty way? You know, one thing I love about parenting, James, is that it's a lot like golf. Do you play golf?

James Moffitt (53:21.538)
No, I like to drive the golf cart.

Dr. John N Chanaca (53:22.511)
OK, you probably. You probably have have seen golf though. You know how golf goes. OK, it's not like skating ice skating. I don't know if you've ever seen these these beautiful ice skating competitions and so on. You know the amateurs and all the world champ. They practice for hours and hours and days and days and days and days and they get out there. They have four minutes to perform and if they fall down there finish. That's it. They lost.

James Moffitt (53:28.654)
yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (53:51.699)
Parenting is not like that. Parenting is like golf. In golf you get lots and lots and lots of chances. You hit the ball the first time it goes in the woods. That's OK. You put out another ball. You hit it again. It goes towards the green. Maybe it goes in the trap next, or maybe it goes in the woods again. It's OK. Still alright. You set it out again. You finally get it on the green. OK, after five or six or seven shots, that's OK.

You go to the next hole and there's another hole. You get my point? Is you have lots of chances, so don't screw up those chances. Don't goof them up. Take advantage of those chances. If you do something, if you think you're selfish, if you think you're not spending enough time with your children or your wife, start doing it. Start listening. Start spending more time thinking about.

James Moffitt (54:26.311)
yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (54:50.491)
other people rather than being selfish. So that would be my number one takeaway, okay, is show love and listening at the same time.

James Moffitt (55:01.8)
awesome. There's no moment like now, right? You can make change. You can make a change in your life right now, today.

Dr. John N Chanaca (55:06.736)
Yeah, you just saw you have.

Dr. John N Chanaca (55:14.735)
Exactly. You can't do anything about the past. You can't do anything about, you know, it's all about choice. Let me read something quickly from Charles Swindoll. He's in the preface, the preface of our books. He says, the longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude to me is more important than facts. It's more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes.

than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, than giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company, a church, a home. The remarkable thing is that we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past. We cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable.

The only thing we can do is play on the one string that we have and that is our attitude. I'm convinced that life is 10 % of what happens to me and 90 % of how I react to it. And so it is with you. We are in charge of our attitudes. Charles Swindoll. That's it.

James Moffitt (56:35.906)
Yeah, he, he wrote a book on compassion that I learned as a young Christian. And, one of the sayings I've got written in, in, on the, it's written on my heart. people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Right.

Dr. John N Chanaca (56:50.905)
Well, there it is. That sums it up.

James Moffitt (56:53.368)
People don't care how much you know. It's not what you know, it's how much you care. You know, and that is something I learned as a young man in ministry. I used to be one of those hellfire brimstone Bible thumpers. Southern Baptist Convention. Old school. And I had to learn a hard lesson about compassion. I, know, there, a pastor friend of mine taught me about the...

the psychology of need. I was like, what does that mean? He said that you're going to meet people in life that they're going to be in a station in life, a certain situation in life. And they're going to have needs. They're either going to be hungry, thirsty, need clothes, need a job, need a place to stay. A lot of basic needs. You'll meet people day to day.

They have emotional needs, they mental needs, spiritual needs, right? And so the psychology of need is that you have to love people right where they're at. No matter where they're at, no matter where they've come from, God places you in their lives at that moment in time. And so our job as Christians is to share the love and the light of Jesus.

and meet some of those needs for them. In other words, it's not our job to change them. The Holy Spirit changes them. It's our job to love them and to meet as many needs as we can and as you have time to meet, right? Or help them find the resources they need to help meet some of those other needs. And once you do those things, that's how you show people that you care.

Dr. John N Chanaca (58:27.635)
Yeah.

Dr. John N Chanaca (58:38.318)
Good

James Moffitt (58:47.19)
is by helping them meet their needs. Like, you know, if you run across somebody that's lost a son or a daughter or a grandparent.

It's not our job to fix things. It's not our job to fix people. It's our job to love people and to be there in that moment in time and, just sit there and listen, just let them talk, let them cry, you know, and there'll be opportunities for you to share stories. There'll be times for you to, share little nuggets of, of truth and wisdom from your life story. Right. But, but.

Dr. John N Chanaca (59:20.198)
Mm-hmm.

James Moffitt (59:22.892)
I don't know where I'm going with all of that other than to say that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care and that's

Dr. John N Chanaca (59:28.319)
I think we're talking about the same thing. All of this is the same thing, okay? We're talking about love and parenting and relationships, and who did it better than Christ? I mean, isn't that what he did? When the blind came to him or the person was filled with demons or the woman who was a harlot? mean, didn't, yeah. And the woman at the well, a Samaritan woman at the well and so on.

James Moffitt (59:31.8)
Yep. Yep.

James Moffitt (59:40.152)
Right.

James Moffitt (59:45.834)
Absolutely.

James Moffitt (59:52.408)
The woman at the well, yep. Yep.

Dr. John N Chanaca (59:57.745)
That's basically what he did. He listened to them and he told me, you know, he could see them exactly where they were and he loved them. So, you know, that's a good example. We're not, are we going to do it perfectly? No, we are not. OK, I certainly believe me. My wife was the best thing that ever happened to me. Thank the Lord that she came because she keeps reminding me in a sense that she loves me and cares for me and.

and that it's all right if I make a mistake and pick myself up again, that kind of thing. So, and that's so, so important. We are not perfect. No one is. That's why we need Christ.

James Moffitt (01:00:41.24)
John, thank you for being on the podcast episode. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I'm thankful that you are providing those books as a resource for parents to have some extra tools in their tool chest and to be better parents and to help raise healthier children. And I appreciate all those things. again, I'll ask you to send me an email with all the links of everything and I'll put the

that free book link in my, what did you call it? Story? Whatever.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:01:16.735)
Yeah, it's a survival guide for parents and this will be free free to your listeners. OK, and all if there's a click on it, they'll enjoy it and that'll be.

James Moffitt (01:01:20.376)
Right.

James Moffitt (01:01:25.41)
And I'll put that, I'll put that in my podcast episode. I can't even think what you called it. What'd you call it?

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:01:33.087)
The footnotes, I guess you would say, the storyline, in the storyline.

James Moffitt (01:01:35.296)
Right. He's called it a story, something story storyline. Yes. I'll put that in a storyline and when people read it, they can, they can click on it. So to the listening audience, thank you for the privilege of your time. As always, you can listen to the audio version of this podcast on Amazon music, I heart radio, Apple podcasts and public radio. If you go to rumble, which sounds just like it is, it's a conservative version of YouTube.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:01:50.367)
Great.

James Moffitt (01:02:02.926)
You go to rumble. actually upload all the video podcast episodes to rumble. So you can, you can download the rumble app and you can watch it right there on your smartphone or tablet or whatever. Um, our website is parenting adult children.org. Just as it sounds parenting adult children.org. And I have a website that domain points to the website and the website provides contact information for me. You can leave me a voicemail. You can, you can click on my email address.

and leave me an email and I'll respond to it. there's a show schedule. If you go to the blog, I upload a show schedules for two months at a time. just released the show schedule for March and April, and I, have a, a link on my website for reviews. So if you listen to a podcast episode and you like it, please leave a review. if you're on Apple podcasts, I think like 75 or 80 % of my listeners come from Apple podcasts. Cause

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:02:31.551)
Thank

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:02:49.119)
Good.

James Moffitt (01:02:59.51)
Everybody has an iPhone, I guess. And so, so they can actually leave a, they can listen to the podcast episode on Apple podcasts and they can actually leave a review right there after they listened to it. So I don't care how you leave the review, just leave one. And I want that to encourage other people to listen to the podcast. The more people, the merrier. I release a new episode every Friday morning at 8 AM. And again, thank you for the privilege of your time, John. Thank you for being here and, we will talk to everybody later.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:03:29.439)
One last thing, they would like to visit our website at www.mjchanakapublishing.com. These are the new books that will be coming out in 2025 and we'd love to have them come in June. We actually give all our books away free four times a year.

James Moffitt (01:03:29.56)
Bye bye. Okay, go ahead.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:03:58.633)
four times a year in late March, and then of course in the summer, the fall, and then the winter. If they sign up at our website, at that website I just gave you, they'll get on our list and they'll get all our books free.

James Moffitt (01:04:11.681)
Awesome, thank you.

Dr. John N Chanaca (01:04:13.203)
Thank you, James, for having me and God bless your podcast. Okay. That's a great little platform and I appreciate it so much.

James Moffitt (01:04:21.186)
Alright brother, I'm gonna stop it now. But don't go any-