From Confusion to Confidence: A Parent’s Guide to Disability Advocacy

In this episode of ADC's Parenting Adult Children podcast, host James Moffitt is joined by John Fela and Katy Moffitt to discuss the challenges and experiences of parenting children with disabilities. John shares his journey as a parent of a nonverbal autistic son, highlighting the fears and realities of finding suitable care and community for his child. Katy, with her extensive experience in special education, adds insights into the educational needs and social dynamics of children with disabilities. The conversation delves into the importance of community support, the role of churches in disability ministry, and the need for awareness and acceptance in society.

Keywords

parenting, disability advocacy, autism, special education, community support, church ministry, awareness, acceptance, nonverbal communication, special needs

Takeaways

• John Fela describes himself as the 'Swiss Army knife of disability advocacy.'
• John's son, Chris, is nonverbal and autistic, requiring specialized care.
• Katy has over 25 years of experience in special education.
• The importance of finding a supportive community for families with disabilities.
• Challenges in finding suitable educational and living environments for children with disabilities.
• The role of churches in providing support and inclusion for families with disabilities.
• John emphasizes the need for awareness and acceptance in society.
• The fear of the future and loneliness as a parent of a child with disabilities.
• The significance of communication tools like TouchChat for nonverbal individuals.
• John's advocacy work includes writing, speaking, and creating support groups for fathers.

Title Options

• Navigating Disability Advocacy with John Fela
• Parenting Challenges: A Journey with John and Katy
• Building Community Support for Special Needs Families
• The Role of Churches in Disability Ministry
• John Fela: A Voice for Disability Advocacy
• Understanding Autism: Insights from John Fela
• Special Education and Parenting: Katy's Perspective
• Creating Inclusive Communities for Disabilities
• John Fela's Advocacy Journey
• Supporting Nonverbal Communication in Autism

Sound bites

• Swiss Army knife of disability advocacy
• Fear of the future and loneliness
• Importanc

Richard Jones. I am an RN with over 34 years of Nursing Experience, much of that experience working with young adults in the corrections system. 

Hello, James here !

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Transcript

James Moffitt (00:03.818)
Hello and welcome to ADC's Parenting Adult Children podcast. My name is James Moffitt and I will be your host. And today we have two special guests. One is John Fella and my wife, Katie Moffitt. John, can you introduce yourself to the listening audience?

John Fela (00:22.99)
Sure, absolutely. Thank you. So yes, I am a parent of disability. I have a 17 year old son, Chris, who is autistic and nonverbal. I like to define myself as the Swiss Army knife of disability advocacy or ministry.

I do a lot in terms of disability outreach. In my day job, I work for a national, well, actually a global organization called Johnny and Friends, which supports people and families of disability around the world. And I work out of our Chicago area office. And then I do a variety of advocacy on the side as well. I speak nationally at conferences. I've done a lot of writing in terms of blog writing.

Tons of podcasts such as this contributed to a couple of friends books as well. So just a little bit of everything, but definitely I saw the need as a parent for what I didn't have. And so I really made an intentional decision to be able to reach out in and connect with families and parents that were in need.

James Moffitt (01:21.227)
awesome. Thank you. Teddy, you want to introduce yourself to the listening audience, please?

Katy (01:26.033)
Let's see, we've married 34 years, we have four kids. We had one that was special ed. She's now gone to heaven, Jessica. She was premature. Christina was our regular kid, I guess. And then Justin was in our gifted and talented range. I've been teaching for at least 25 years. I've lost count.

and mostly with special ed. I'm a resource teacher at a charter school right now.

James Moffitt (02:02.41)
All right, thank you. And thank you for both, both of you for being here. I know the listening audience is going to get a lot out of this. We have had several guests on this podcast talking about neurodivergence and special needs and all of that. I've had several parents on here that were special needs themselves and had children that were special needs or neurodivergent. I don't know which the correct term is. But anyway, this is a,

recurring topic, I think.

So I'm going read this paragraph from your Podmatch profile, John. It says, I'm seeking to trademark the title of the Swiss Army Knife of Disability Advocacy, meaning that I'm involved with disability and special needs advocacy on a variety of levels. I'm the parent of a 16-year-old son, which you've already said, autism. He's also nonverbal. I'm a former elementary educator of almost 20 years.

He transitioned into doing advocacy on the side several years ago and now has a growing national platform through my personal work and also with my employer, Johnny and Friends, which is a global Christian disability ministry. What's Johnny's last name?

John Fela (03:19.63)
Johnny Erickson Tada is her full name. So absolutely. Yep. Most people don't always know the name of the ministry, but when you say her name, they make the connection.

Katy (03:21.505)
That's what thought, yeah.

James Moffitt (03:21.64)
Yeah, yeah, she's very well known. Very good.

Katy (03:24.758)
Yeah.

Katy (03:32.531)
Right. I had an idea that's probably who it was.

James Moffitt (03:33.598)
Right.

I got you. All right, so, John, I'm just going to say take it away.

John Fela (03:42.996)
All right, well.

James Moffitt (03:44.426)
I mean, I've got some questions I can ask you, but I want to give you the ability to kind of set up what you want to talk about.

John Fela (03:52.398)
Sure, so I think, know, and if the focus here is especially not just on kids with disability, or children with disability, but also to that adult piece and kids that are a little bit, you know, coming into that, either those high school years, transition years or after. You know, this is a unique kind of time in your child's life. And it's a time that...

really elicits a lot of fear for parents. And quite honestly, it can be to the point of heartbreak, right? Because what I saw with my own son, for example, was when he got his diagnosis about the age of three, we certainly got a ton of suggestions about different treatments and therapies to try. I would say that if there's a treatment or therapy out there,

he's either done it or we've tried it or we've at least looked at it, right? We've investigated a lot of possibilities, whether it was behavior stuff like ABA therapy, speech therapy, OT, PT, doing special diets, special communication programs, because he is nonverbal and that type of thing.

And that's fine. And we kind of went through that typical formula of going through elementary school and him being in a special ed program. It was actually called the Life Skills Program and it actually was multi-age. So he was kind of put in an environment with, first it was K through two and then three through five and then middle school.

And then he went on to the public high school. And right now he is currently residing. So I live in the Chicago area, but he's currently residing in a residential home in Wichita, Kansas, which also is a therapeutic day school. And he's there because he had a very rough sophomore year of high school, unfortunately. And I think there were a lot of things going on there, but we found out that the environment he was in was not a match.

John Fela (05:52.512)
And so when we tried to find a different match for him, we couldn't find anything that was relatively close to home. Either there were no openings or places that wouldn't take him. And then we found this place, which has been just a wonderful blessing to our family. He's been supported there. He's been thriving. He will probably finish up his high school years there and then he'll come home and probably do the transition program and get in the day programs and that type of thing. here's the fear. And it comes on a couple levels.

for me. One, when I think about my son, I know that because of the level of his autism and because of the level of his independence, he will never be able to live on his own. He will never be able to hold a job. He will never be able to drive. He will never get married. He will never have kids. Now that is something that his mom and I, and I'm actually divorced from his mom and remarried now, but we parent very well together.

You know, this is something that you come to terms with obviously at a pretty young age, right? But the stark reality of it is, first of all, it's not only, okay, what is the best placement for my son, right? As I just explained, we tried finding a school for him.

James Moffitt (06:56.179)
Right.

John Fela (07:07.724)
that would take him based on his particular needs in this season. And we didn't find anything close. Likewise, when we think about living arrangements and environments for your child long term when they are an adult, that is a mixed bag. And where I live in the Chicago area, what I always tell folks is there are a lot of institutions, there are a lot of these residential homes and facilities that have a...

they're very well known in terms of their name branding, right? They carry weight in the community, people can recognize them. But I know from people who have worked for certain places or maybe families who have been involved, they're not all they're cracked up to be, right? And the quality of care is an issue, especially when you consider that in residential facilities, there's a great amount of turnover.

James Moffitt (07:38.356)
Right.

James Moffitt (07:49.405)
Right.

John Fela (07:56.746)
a lot of the staff, you know, is they have a very hard time keeping staff because one, it is very hard work and it doesn't pay very well. And, you know, they could probably get a job making more money or better benefits at the local fast food or who knows. So it's a fear about what is the quality of care going to be, you know, in general, when my son is ready to live on his own. But here's the other catch. He's an only child. And so am I. So is his mom.

So one day when we've all passed on and you know not not counting let's say maybe some associated relatives or whatever or well-meaning you know folks friends and that type of thing he's not going to have anyone in his life you know he may he may get to the point where everybody that he knows has passed on who's going to be his community right so it's a fear about the kind of care he's going to get

but it's also concerned about who's gonna be his community. Who will be the people that will reach out to him? Who will be the folks who will say happy birthday or Merry Christmas or I love you or whatever, right? And that is a huge fear long-term. It's not an immediate fear, but that's the thing that keeps me up at night if anything is, okay, where are we gonna place him for the right now? But then what will this look like in 30, 40, 50 years? Because you do have to consider that. And the reality is also is that

James Moffitt (09:18.986)
Sure.

John Fela (09:20.948)
folks are, the disability population, as I always tell people, are getting older, but they're growing in number, right? So people are living longer. That's a good thing. But that also means that if my son lives into his 70s, 80s, or maybe even 90s, that means that he may live 10, 20, 30 years even with all of these people that have taken care of him throughout his life gone. And what will that look like and mean for him then?

James Moffitt (09:47.407)
It is kind of scary. You said that he's nonverbal?

John Fela (09:52.024)
Correct.

James Moffitt (09:53.962)
How does he communicate?

John Fela (09:57.014)
Well,

A lot of it is really through body language. He never really learned a lot of signing. He has some basic signs and he has some basic speech. can tell you yeah or no, that type of thing, but he really can't elicit a lot of, I need this, I want this kind of thing. We did try some communication programs. There are things out there that fall under the umbrella of what's called facilitated communication, which some people have some varying opinions about. But there are some different models

of that that we have tried. He currently actually has on his iPad, he has a program called TouchChat, which is basically, it's a pretty good app because one,

It's a lot of picture icons, so it's a lot of the picture exchange packs kind of a thing. he can just press on, know, if I want to eat, okay, what do you want to eat or where do you want to go? What restaurant? What do you want to order that type of thing? And there's also a letterboard feature on there as well, which he can't spell some things out, but it takes a lot of focus for him for sure.

James Moffitt (10:45.791)
Gotcha.

James Moffitt (11:00.575)
Gotcha.

James Moffitt (11:04.34)
So, and I'm sort of ignorant about this stuff. And, Kenny, feel free to jump in when I ask a silly question. is he mentally aware enough to where he can like surf the web or get on chat or do anything like that, research things on the web?

John Fela (11:20.648)
Not at all. I will tell you that when he gets on his iPad, has, because a lot of folks on the spectrum do like their.

James Moffitt (11:21.992)
Not at all.

John Fela (11:31.2)
Screen time and my son likes his screen time but a lot of times he has apps and things on there that are like Just very basic games or just apps that he enjoys that have little pictures and videos and stuff and he'll just kind of run through that and scroll through that sometimes he might get on youtube and you know, or his PBS kids is one he really enjoys and kind of scroll through those videos, but he'll kind of go very quickly So it's kind of just okay. This is boring. What's the next thing? What's the next thing? So yeah, it's that that is a little bit

James Moffitt (11:41.343)
got you.

James Moffitt (11:59.476)
Right.

John Fela (12:01.164)
out of his capability.

James Moffitt (12:02.314)
Does he watch TikTok videos?

John Fela (12:05.654)
he won't seek them out. But I mean, if you if you show him stuff that he might be interested in, like animals or stuff that moves like trucks and planes and things, you know, he might enjoy that or even like some music stuff. But again, it's not that he intentionally seeks out at all.

James Moffitt (12:21.908)
I got you.

All right, so I've got a list of questions I can ask you. Again, Katie, anytime you want to jump in, feel free. What has been your greatest challenge as a special needs father? And I think you've already answered that question, haven't you? Pretty much.

John Fela (12:39.18)
Yeah, I would say it's the fear of the future. And it's, you know.

I work a lot with dads and dads process differently than moms because men process differently than women. So both mom and dad have fear about the future for sure. But as a father, I would say that it's the fear of the future, but specifically the loneliness. I know the experience of being a single father as well.

I know the experience of having to live alone and also parent alone. And the fear is, will there be a situation in life where one, I don't know the kind of care he's gonna get, but even if let's say everyone in his life has passed on, maybe dad's still around, right? I won't be in a place where I can parent or support him at a certain point at a certain age, because I'll probably need that for myself.

and there's really nothing he can do independently. So the fear is, you know, what does that future really look like for him? And, you know, also too, a lot of dads struggle with guilt and shame, and I often say, especially when it's a male child.

because they really have an expectation that they would bond with that male child. So I found ways to kind of rise above that and to be able to engage and have a relationship with my son, which is very unique and special. But that can be challenging for a lot of guys and for a lot of dads. So I think I found ways to plug in with him and where we can share some things and have our own version of fun together.

John Fela (14:25.7)
that pain that, you know, we may have great times together and all I may get out of him is a smile or a laugh or even sometimes a hug. We're never going to sit and have a deep meaningful conversation about the meaning of life or, you know, what do you think you want to do with the rest of your life or that type of thing. So there is a trade off. There is that guilt in that morning, but at the same time, it's also that bigger long term fear again of the future.

James Moffitt (14:39.178)
Right.

James Moffitt (14:52.03)
So you said he's 17?

John Fela (14:54.008)
Correct.

James Moffitt (14:55.594)
So developmentally, what is, how old, where is he at?

John Fela (15:02.654)
So he actually just had some of the different IQ testing and there's some other models that are out there if you're special needs parent you'd be familiar like BASC and that type of thing. They put him at about three years old, cognitively. Yeah.

James Moffitt (15:19.417)
wow, I got you.

John Fela (15:21.128)
So we often say about him, he understands everything, but you don't get the output. To be honest, we don't really know, and we may never know everything that he really does understand, right? But in terms of his independence level and his ability to even keep himself safe in some environments, I think that's a pretty accurate representation.

James Moffitt (15:43.368)
Now is he currently attending like a special education class somewhere or?

John Fela (15:48.812)
Yeah, so he's at the facility in Wichita that I described. So that is a residential home, but it also is a therapeutic day school. So he is actually doing the equivalent of his high school program out there. And again, that is specifically a special ed environment.

So, you know, the classrooms are specifically set up to meet his needs. There are, you know, a lot of sensory options. You know, he also needs a space that's a little bit quieter to himself so he can focus on the work and the task at hand. And again, all of the expectations are geared for his level, right? So when I say high school, you know, he's obviously not doing, you know, trigonometry or anything. You know, it's just for his age. And again, what's, you know, what is appropriate for his level.

James Moffitt (16:10.249)
Right.

James Moffitt (16:34.43)
So is there an IEP that's been assigned or?

John Fela (16:40.32)
Yeah, so he's had an IEP really since he was probably about four. And I know that.

You know, in our case, he didn't start in public school right away. He actually started in a preschool, in a special ed preschool that the school district offered. We had done some private, you know, like daycare and preschools and that type of thing prior to that. And it just wasn't a fit. So he's had he's had an IEP since then. And so we have we know we know the experience of having regular meetings and check ins. We actually just had a meeting, I think February was was his updated goal.

and IEP review.

James Moffitt (17:20.426)
Gotcha. And so the school is working with you. Do you feel like they're, I don't know what's the word, they're providing him with the level of help that he needs?

John Fela (17:36.718)
I would say that he's having a pretty good experience. Yeah. And I think he, his mom and I have both been, very pleased with it. You know, the, the challenge, the reason why he got to where he got to.

was because his public high school environment in a special ed program where he grew up just couldn't meet his needs anymore. Now, some of that was because he was showing some aggressive behavior that was not typical for him. And there were some different reasons for that. But we also felt that maybe there were some other issues in the environment he was in that might have been triggering some things, et cetera. So, you know, a lot of times it's not just the curriculum

James Moffitt (18:13.61)
I got you.

John Fela (18:19.696)
or the approach to learning or teaching, it's just the environment itself. It could be a bad mix of people, it could be a bad mix of staff, it could be both, or something else in the environment. so, you know, again, we'll never know because we can't pull it out of him exactly what he was reacting to. We know it wasn't all their fault, but we know that it did contribute to some level.

James Moffitt (18:42.73)
I would imagine Katie can probably speak to the environmental things that go on in the classroom as to what might be causing issues or whatever. What do think honey?

Katy (18:56.193)
Just different personalities with the kids. I try to my kids, because I deal with the resource kids, but I tell them it's like, know, we're not going to always like everybody, but you got to be nice to one at least. can't, you know, can't be mean to people. And that's the hardest part for little kids. I deal with the kindergarten to third grade.

And they can be mean. I mean, so it's like.

James Moffitt (19:33.48)
think that in case of John, in case of your son, maybe that there's a little bit of frustration on his end because it's so difficult for him to communicate his feelings, what he's feeling or what he's thinking. So maybe he acts out a little bit because of that frustration, I'm just assuming.

John Fela (19:55.522)
Well, I'll give you a perfect example of that. When this particular bout of aggressive behavior started that caused us to look at a different school.

the first reaction from his mom and I was that it had something GI related, meaning his gut. So a lot of kids on the spectrum have some kind of GI or stomach distress or, you know, some, you know, a lot of sensitivities to food allergies, that type of thing, which he he definitely there's nothing that he has a heart allergy to, but there's probably stuff he shouldn't eat as much of, but it's all the stuff he likes to eat. So there you go. But but when when this first started, we assumed that

James Moffitt (20:31.678)
Right.

John Fela (20:36.4)
was something related to that. So we actually took him to the emergency room at the hospital where he had, there's a hospital with a pediatric emergency room and we had taken him there at different times if he had something going on. So we get him there and they do a scan and they find out that he is essentially extremely constipated. And here's the problem. He can't verbalize what he's feeling.

James Moffitt (20:59.582)
John Fela (21:05.516)
He can't tell you my stomach hurts. Sometimes he can go on the iPad and communicate that like head hurts, stomach hurts, but you don't necessarily know what that means. And then when you realize, wow, you probably haven't been able to go to the bathroom in a few days, then there you go. So that's a great example of that in terms of, okay, my stomach is causing me such pain that the only way I can communicate that I'm in distress is I'm gonna scratch you and bite you, right?

James Moffitt (21:33.182)
Right.

John Fela (21:33.238)
Now to be fair, there are some folks in our situation where they may scratch and bite for different reasons, right? Because there is some other distress or something going on that doesn't work for them or whatever else they're trying to get out. In his case, that's a perfect example. So he can show that, but I think that's also more of the worst case scenario because we have been able to address a lot of those things. But there are plenty of times where,

we can kind of laugh it off where he'll maybe stomp a foot or put his hands on his hips and give you that typical teenager look of, you serious? So then you know, like, okay, maybe he's not a fan of whatever you just said or whatever's going on. But again, a lot of it is just knowing your child, right? Because even if you put an iPad from, say, tell me something, a lot of times he's just gonna push it out of the way and either he's gonna go for what he needs or...

you know, tell you some other way.

James Moffitt (22:33.896)
Right. So how has your son's disability affected his choices or opportunities for education or independence?

John Fela (22:44.34)
Well, that's really kind of the whole crux of it because he will never be truly independent. And because of that, the classroom environments that he has needed to be in have had to be extremely supportive of him and those needs. So what it comes down to is that he'll never be able, as I stated earlier, he'll never be able to live on his own.

He'll never be able to really hold the job. Now, could he be able to do some basic employment? Sure, but it would have to be something that was maybe highly specialized in terms of, okay, you do one or two or three tasks and that's what you do and in an environment that's very supported or kind of just structured so that he can get the help that he needs.

And then, you know, even with just daily life skills, right? You know, he's always going to need support with that. So he's never been able to be totally independent in an environment. And even when he was a very young child and we tried some more typical school, you know, situations and environments, he just didn't respond to them, you know. And unfortunately, the teachers in many cases were not properly, you know, trained. And again, it wasn't a special ed.

you know, type of arrangement kind of a thing, but you know, they could provide his needs and so we had to, you know, take him somewhere that did.

James Moffitt (24:12.138)
I got you.

What is it that special needs fathers struggle with the most?

John Fela (24:20.258)
Well, I touched on it a little bit earlier too. And again, I think it's that fear of the future, but there's also that guilt and shame aspect. And what I see a lot of and what I get from other dads and actually moms as well, a lot of moms will admit this too. The way that parents respond to a diagnosis, right? So men are fixers. And a lot of times the dads will say, okay,

Who do we have to see? What do we have to do to just make this go away, right? Moms are more of naturally a nurturer. And I will say like in the case of my son's mom, for example, she is excellent with organizing schedules and calendars and calling insurance and calling doctors and therapists. And what do we need here? And where do we go here? And that type of thing. And she always has been. Men frequently will be the ones who say, OK, I'm going to work hard. I'll make sure we have enough money to pay

the bills, we have enough money to pay the doctors or the therapists or whatever, and they kind of throw themselves into their work. The issue there is while they are well-meaning in terms of wanting to take care of the family, taking care of their child and paying for all these things, a lot of times men become detached.

So they become emotionally detached from their kids. And again, especially when they're that guilt and shame aspect is in there. And a lot of times you see it with with dads of male kids with a disability as well. But but then, you know, that also kind of festers and bleeds into the marriage. It can bleed into, you know, that relationship with with your spouse, you know, or even your child, too. So, you know, you get a lot of dads who, you know, don't have outlets. They don't have guys they can talk to. And I know for myself in the in the early years,

That was my biggest thing. I learned the hard way. I had nobody to talk to about this. Now I had people that would listen to me, but they couldn't give me any advice because they either weren't parents, they weren't special needs parents or parents of disability, and they just couldn't relate to me other than just giving me some very surface advice like, it's gonna be okay or we're here for you, that type of thing. Okay, you mean well, I get it.

John Fela (26:29.662)
but I needed something more. And so that's where, for me, I needed to seek out community with other guys and parents in general, right? And so that's a major thing that I tell not just dads, but moms, parents, families. You need support, you need a community, find a community. If you don't have a community, you know.

And that's one thing that I always tell people they can reach out to me because I can help plug you in with some maybe resources or organizations or sometimes you just kind of have to make it yourself. And I've had that experience too where I've created my own support groups for dads, for example, and that type of thing.

James Moffitt (27:05.066)
Where would a father specifically look for a community or support group that he could plug into?

John Fela (27:16.096)
So a great organization that I always talk about on these interviews is called Special Fathers Network. So Special Fathers Network, it's a national organization, it's based out of Chicago, but they have a lot of resources that are virtual, right? So a couple of great things that they do. First of all, are they have a virtual meetup groups for special needs dads. They do a few of them every week during the week.

in the evenings and it's really guys from all over the country, right? So it doesn't matter where you live in the country, you can get plugged in virtually. There are also some in-person meetup groups in certain parts of the country as well. So depending on where you live, you may have an in-person group on top of that, but there's also a mentoring program. So what that is is let's say,

A group of guys isn't for you. You're not ready for that kind of step. Maybe you just want to talk to one guy. Well, this is a mentoring program where you can get connected with a guy in your area.

maybe same age or condition of your child, or maybe it's just someone that's close to you. And you get connected with them and then they can kind of be someone that you can relate to, talk to, get support from, that type of thing. And there's a bunch of other resources as well. There's a great series of podcasts, great series of YouTube videos. There's a virtual conference every year they do in the spring. So that's a wonderful organization that I always recommend to get plugged into.

There's also another organization called Rising Above Ministries. So like Johnny and Friends, it's a Christian Disability Ministry. Now they support families, moms and dads, but they actually have dedicated groups for moms and also for dads. Again, virtual groups, support groups, that type of thing that meet during the week. So again, regardless of what part of the country you're in, you can access that. So that's another great organization. And there's one other one that I would recommend called Fatherhood Co-mission.

John Fela (29:06.752)
So like commission, it's, commission, you know, and fatherhood. So fatherhood commission. They're another national organization. They also do virtual meetups as well. I know they have some bigger like dad retreats during the year. think they have a few of those around the country as well. And again, they have a great series of videos and other online resources. So those are the ones that I usually recommend because again, regardless of where you are in the country, regardless of whether you're ready to commit to, you know, if you're ready

for a bigger virtual group, great. If you're ready for something in person, great. If you're in the Chicago area, I've got lots of connections for you there, but even if you're not, you might be able to plug into something in person close to you as well through one of these organizations.

James Moffitt (29:50.986)
Well, that's awesome. It's good to know that there's communities that fathers and moms can plug into if they need to, which I'm sure they need to because that's a very special situation for sure. So how did you get started in your advocacy work?

John Fela (30:09.398)
So it really comes back to that point about realizing that I didn't have any community, realizing that I didn't have any support, right? And so what do I do? How do I start? So I started out small. I started out just by trying to do meetups of dads in my community. And actually the first incarnation of this was over 10 years ago. And I just tried meeting with dads from my son's school.

from the same program he was in. And we tried that a couple times and then after the second time, guys just didn't show up because they just couldn't commit to it. Guys have a hard time committing to something even if it's something that might be a good thing for them. There's a lot of excuses as to why maybe they don't wanna go or they don't wanna go all the time, that type of thing. So after a few years, I started that again and it was probably about 2017 that a couple things happened.

I restarted this dad's meetup group idea and I started with another guy in my community that was looking to do the same thing. And we kind of got it off the ground and we got some momentum and we got some regular guys coming and I actually still run that particular group to this day. But then I also felt like I was being called to do something else, right? And I always had a desire to write.

Okay, and I always thought about being an author and as I might have mentioned, I've contributed to a couple of friends books, working on a book project myself that will be done hopefully soon. But I had a friend I was connected to through another special needs organization who said, you know, why don't you try blogging? And I wasn't.

really thinking about that, that wasn't something I was excited about doing, but she worked with a small disability ministry in Wisconsin where they did writing and they would post the blogs about parents and their experience. So I gave it a try and I found out I kind of liked it. after about six months, that small organization got merged into a bigger organization called Key Ministry. So Key Ministry is based in Cleveland.

John Fela (32:17.038)
They have a, they're basically a national organization, but they're based in Cleveland, but they do a lot of outreach with families of disability and also churches. So in the same way, Johnny and Friends supports churches in disability ministry, and that's specifically my job with them to train their staff and help them develop programs and things. This organization is like that. So when we merged with them, I got brought on with them as a writer and speaker. So I've been speaking at their conference around the country

for years, been doing a lot of writing for them as well. And then I started speaking at other conferences and writing for some other folks. And then of course, doing a bunch of podcasts like this. So that's really how that ball got rolling there. But again,

What I found is, you know, my job, my jobs have a local focus, but also a national focus in the sense that, you know, if I'm working with folks who are looking for a particular resource locally, okay, I'm going to go plug you in with somebody I know or my frontier or whatever it is. But then if it's maybe something that I don't have, or at least I don't have locally, you know what, I'm going to refer you to one of these bigger national organizations, maybe whether they're based in Chicago or somewhere else, and they can probably help you kind of

thing. the thing that I've really found is that this really is about relationships and community because in the same way that I've gotten so much from working with these folks in terms of advice,

or resources or questions about my own son and what we should do. I've gotten all of that, but then I've also been able to give back as well. so whenever I meet someone on any level who's looking for support, it could be a parent, whether it's a family parent, single parent, and even other folks in the disability world. I actually just got off a call before.

John Fela (34:10.902)
we started recording this with a special needs attorney in my area and we were sharing resources that way too. So some things that we both were familiar with and some things that were new to us. So it's the idea that I saw what I needed that someone like myself needed that I didn't have. And as far as I'm concerned, at least in terms of my experience in my world didn't exist. So I intentionally went out to seek it, but also to make it.

in the places where I saw it didn't exist. And then a lot of wonderful relationships and just opportunities came onto that. And so it really just turned into something unique and special.

James Moffitt (34:52.426)
I'm wondering if fathers have a hard time opening up and sharing.

John Fela (34:59.71)
Always, always,

James Moffitt (35:03.412)
Men are kind of closed off and some, I would say some guys are probably, their emotional intelligence is maybe not where it needs to be, right?

John Fela (35:17.408)
Yeah, it's a little bit of all of that. Now, here's what I will say. I know some excellent special needs dads. And I know some guys who are great about sharing. And a lot of the guys that, you know, in the in-person group that I run, I probably have a group of about 10 to 15 guys that will come off and on. But there's usually about a group of three, four, five guys that will almost always be there. And, you know, it's funny. There's one guy.

who comes to almost every meeting I do, okay? Now, what's funny is this is a guy that I know because his family does some of our outreach, some of our retreats through Johnny and friends, right? So that's how I know the family and that's how we got connected. But he comes to all this stuff and I'm gonna tell you what, he's a great guy, he's a great dad, doesn't really say a whole lot. He is not a talkative guy at all. If you ask him a question, he'll answer it.

But but he doesn't throw stuff out doesn't share doesn't you know, whatever kind of a deal but man he comes to every thing and I'm like, okay, so, you know you frequently what you have or you have some guys who because of their personality, you know, they're they naturally will communicate more and then there are some guys who you know, while I You know, I realized that this guy doesn't share a lot. He at least identifies that this is something he needs

It's something that has value to him. So you know what? I'm going to show up anyway. Even if you only get two words out of me, I'm still here and it's like, hey, that's OK. So you know in my world, I see a lot of dads that are willing to share my issue and I think the issue that a lot of folks.

a lot of guys like me, especially who run these type of groups or organizations, is that men have a hard time with being consistent in that sense, right? You have some guys, like I described, who will always come, but you have a lot of guys who will try something once and just never go back to it because, man, do I really need it? I don't know. I mean, maybe it's something I'll try, but I don't really need to commit to anything.

James Moffitt (37:14.89)
Right.

John Fela (37:21.63)
And so the guys that are out there that are kind of those unicorns about always showing up to stuff and they exist, right? But a lot of guys, I think, just don't always realize that they need it or need it consistently or need it all the time. And in that sense, then that's where maybe, you know,

it contributes to a little bit of suffering on their end because when you don't maintain those relationships or you don't maintain a relationship with that group, then when you are going through stuff, it's hard for you to kind of plug back in, so to speak.

James Moffitt (37:58.378)
imagine that integrating with a support group is kind of scary to some people because some people are introverts, right? And they're, you know, that's the sort of thing that they're, that would cause them to step outside of their comfort zone a lot, right? And then there are extroverts that, you know, that social interaction doesn't bother them and they don't mind that. But when you throw in the part of

what type of group it is and why you're there, then that can make it kind of scary too. Cause you're like, you know, but, but the community aspect of that is it's like, yeah, you know, you go to, you go to a couple of meetings, you don't always have to say anything, you know, unless the leader, you know, asks you to or whatever, but, you can, you can always go and listen and listen to what other people are sharing. And then all of sudden you're like, wow, they're, they're experiencing the same thing I am. Right. And so, so that's.

that's the part of the community that really provides the support that they need.

John Fela (39:01.868)
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I will also tell you that one thing I have learned is that it's always to my benefit to try to get a guest speaker.

And the reason why is because a lot of guys have this kind of back of the classroom mentality of, right, I'll just sit back and listen to somebody else talk and maybe I don't got to talk. Or it's an icebreaker because that person might say something that maybe elicits something in them in terms of a question or right. Right. Yeah. That will resonate with them in that type of thing. So it's a it's a nice way for guys to be involved. And also, too, if it's something legitimately they want to know about, because I'll have IEP advocates out, I'll have

James Moffitt (39:13.599)
Right?

James Moffitt (39:30.174)
So that resonates with them, right?

John Fela (39:43.112)
attorneys out, I'll have people who do different stuff in the disability world. And it could be a topic that they want to know about, right? And then of course, that's also motivation because then a lot of times, and I have had this happen too, where the wife or the mom will kind of kick him in the pants and like, hey, you better go to that because I want to know about whatever they're talking about.

James Moffitt (40:05.672)
Right, right. Well, for those of us that are married, we know that behind every good man is a good woman, right? And so they always inspire us to be better, do better, and act better, and speak better. My wife's always getting on to me when I, well, when I drop an S-bomb or.

James Moffitt (40:33.012)
Alexa, stop. Alexa's trying to get into the conversation. Alexa, stop.

James Moffitt (40:43.306)
Oh my goodness.

James Moffitt (40:47.963)
Smart devices are always listening to us.

John Fela (40:48.075)
We love our wives, we don't always love Alexa. That's the only thing I'll add there, yeah.

James Moffitt (40:52.616)
Yeah, no kidding. Anyway, won't go down that rabbit hole about smart devices and listening to us.

Katy (41:01.621)
Smart move.

James Moffitt (41:05.865)
What specific challenges do adults with disabilities face?

John Fela (41:06.222)
Fair enough.

John Fela (41:11.798)
Well, you know, the biggest thing to me is just awareness from the greater world and community, right? They obviously have challenges in terms of finding a living space or a living option that suits them. And there are challenges in terms of, let's say someone like my son.

who needs a specific level of care. But then there are folks who are more high functioning who could live independently or semi-independently to a degree. But a lot of those type of living options where maybe they need to be somewhere with a little support.

Those are a little bit hard to find. And recently, there are a couple of things that have popped up in the Chicago area where I live that have been kind of a living model where it's folks that can be more independent, but maybe there is more support for them in the building, in the complex where they live. And some things are a little bit more community-based so they can have some of that intentional relationship building. So that's an issue. Employment, obviously, is an issue for sure.

finding work and again, meaningful work. I actually, two presentations on this as well, because I was a job coach for a brief time as well. And there's an issue with, it's one thing to find a job, right? But the reality is, is that every person, every human,

has things that they enjoy doing and things they don't enjoy doing or things they find interesting and things they don't. And there's such a default, I think, to, people with a disability, your only role is, you you're a bagger at the grocery store or stocking shelves or, you know, you vacuum the floors at the hotel or whatever. And now for some folks, that's okay. And we're not passing any judgment. But the reality is, is that there are folks that I worked with as a job coach

John Fela (43:16.002)
that had quite a bit of acumen or skill maybe in a particular area, or might have just been kind of shoehorned into a job, let's say at the grocery store doing these menial tasks and saying, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to do something more meaningful or something I enjoy more. And we have to honor that. But again, it's a challenge because of the perception that people have in terms of, well, these are the only types of roles or jobs you can have. And that kind of gets into my.

my focus on what I think is the biggest challenge, which is just awareness in the community, right? Most people, I think,

Definitely fairly tolerant of folks with disability and I think there's a lot more compassion and awareness in the world, generally speaking, but there is still a lot of ignorance and there are still a lot of folks who will still give you looks in public places. And I guess as a parent of disability, your head's always on a swivel for that and you have a radar attached to your head because that's just kind of your experience with your child growing up. But the fact is, is there are a lot of people who still don't get it, right?

And where I specifically work with it, because again, I work with developing programs in churches and with churches, there are a lot of churches who will say, look, we don't know what to do with these folks, whether it's a five-year-old kid or a 20-year-old adult. And there are a lot of people who are told, you can't be here or we have nothing for you or go down the street because they've got a program at that other place. And that's not okay, right? And that's really...

you know, that is something that is kind of a model for a lot of other places in our community and society, right? Whether it's a workplace, residential, whatever. So I think as a culture, we need to be more aware and accepting because once we get there, right, then it's gonna be easier for people to see, for example, folks with disabilities living in more.

John Fela (45:12.526)
typical environments, let's say whether it's a apartment complex or even in a group home that maybe is more independent or maybe how they engage with their community in terms of being involved with different events or even volunteering. A lot of our adults with disabilities love volunteering and they have a lot of great skills to contribute. but we have to as a society be willing to embrace that.

and give folks a chance, quite honestly, and give them a chance to show what they're capable of and also honor them as the humans they are and their innate value in our world and society.

James Moffitt (45:55.338)
I know at our church we have a young lady that is, I think she's autistic, and she looks like she's 17, 18, 19 years old. And her mom goes to church there, and her daughter sits out in the fellowship hall on one of the couches with a headset and an iPad. And that's kind of how she spends her time. And she's okay as long as you don't bother her. If you walk up to her, try to touch her, try to convert, have a conversation with her, she flips out, right?

So we all know just to kind leave her alone. And as I listen to you talk about this, I'm thinking our church probably, even as large as it is, they probably are not equipped to handle that or provide a, know, churches use volunteers for almost everything, right? And so I guess until there's a volunteer that shows up and goes and identifies that and says,

goes to the pastor or associate pastor or whoever's in charge of the children's ministry and goes, hey, you know, I think we have a special needs person in our midst and I'm uniquely qualified, Katie, to address this issue. so in some ways it's kind of sad, you know, she just kind of sits there, you know, and I don't know if anybody in the church

any special attention to her or says hello or I haven't really been around her. I I volunteer on the security team some and I volunteer on driving the vets, our veterans back to their places where they stay. have veterans ministry. We have a lot of ministries in our church, but I don't know if the conversation's ever been broached or had.

with our church leadership and maybe I'll send an email to Chris Jones and ask him what his thoughts are or has anybody identified this as a need within the church. Because yeah, mean, they're people too, right? And they're just as special as any of us, right? They just have special needs.

John Fela (48:18.606)
And I could talk all day about that subject, but just in a nutshell, the way I'll respond is that this is a very typical type of a dynamic that you just described in most churches, which is that...

many churches see it as just kind of a band-aid approach, right? So somebody with a disability, we don't know what to do with them. Maybe they can hang out on the couch and as long as they're not bothering anybody, okay, fine. Well, that's not okay because that person there needs the gospel and needs community and needs Jesus as much as anybody else, right? And so even if someone says, well, that sounds great, but we don't know how to do that with them,

James Moffitt (48:55.178)
Sure.

John Fela (49:02.028)
then let's see how we can get some support. And that's why this is a big thing that Johnny and Friends does. And so the thing that I would encourage you or your listeners or whoever is kind of in this same situation of, we'd like to do something at our church, we don't know how. First of all, we have regional offices around the country and there's somebody like me in every office that can work with you now. Now sometimes where there's maybe an issue with...

know, distance and that type of thing. We have a ton of virtual resources and we have virtual trainings. So there are lot of ways we can support you, but the issue becomes that most churches will say, we don't know what to do. So let's put a bandaid on it. We don't want to lose this family. So just fix it up however we need to. If they're okay, that's fine. And then if worse comes to worse, we just say, sorry, we can't help you kind of a thing. And again, it's treating that person who is a person regardless of disability.

that unique person with a soul and a spirit and a brain like everybody else, treating them as just a problem to fix, or let's just do the easiest thing possible so that it doesn't put any stress on some of our other staff or volunteers, or heaven forbid, we don't want people in this church to see that person with a disability and maybe get.

turned off or maybe not want to attend that church because someone just happens to be presenting a little bit differently in that environment.

James Moffitt (50:25.556)
Well, you know, from my experience being on the security team, I've got a law enforcement and private security experience. And so I kind of gravitate in that area to that sort of a ministry. And as I sit here and think about it, we have from time to time, we'll have homeless people come to the church, right? And they may or may not be presenting themselves as well as your typical church goer, right? They may not be as clean. They may not have.

color coordinated clothes, they may not have had a shower. You know what I'm saying. They show up and you look at them and you go, okay, so this guy's homeless or this gal's homeless, right? But we welcome them and as long as they don't create a disturbance, as long as they go in and sit down and mind their own business and don't disturb anybody and don't act out or yell or scream or whatever, whatever behavior that is not the norm.

then we pretty much kind of, keep an eye on them, but we leave them alone, right? And so it's kind of the same methodology or the same band-aid approach that we're applying to this young lady. You know, we're like, if she wants to sit out in her mom's car with a wind roll down, doing her thing, then leave her alone. She wants to come into the fellowship hall. And I think maybe she's grown in some ways because...

For the longest time, I think that she stayed out in the car, right? And I almost made the mistake of approaching her. One of the police officers was like, hey, James, no, no, no, don't go over there. She'll flip out. She's autistic. Her mother's in the sanctuary. She knows. We know to go get her if there's an issue, right? Cause mom can come to the rescue and handle, you know, communicate with the child in a way that she's used to, right? So now she's coming into the, to the foyer or into the fellowship hall.

We had a huge church, so the fellowship hall is a huge area in front of the church and there a lot of TV screens, there's snacks, drinks, couches, chairs that you can sit on. And she typically sits on one of the couches and has her earphones on, headphones. Now, I don't know, she may actually be listening to the service. She may actually, I don't know.

James Moffitt (52:48.318)
I don't know what level she's at. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if she's high functioning, low functioning, middle functioning, whatever all that is, that spectrum. I don't really know where she's at because I don't know her, right? And because she's kind of unapproachable, you know, it's hard to get to know her, right? So this is something obviously that if the church were to try to embrace that or try to investigate how they could put something together,

to address special needs kids or adults, the mother obviously would have to be on board and the mother would have to be very much a part of that situation, right?

John Fela (53:31.414)
Right, and what you've just described again is very typical in terms of what happens in a lot of churches, but the one thing I'll speak to is while your church has identified that, okay, that person is fine on their own, and if there's a problem, we can always go get mom. Well, that happens a lot, and I know it's even happened in my own case of the churches we've attended, but here's the thing. Wouldn't it be great if...

Mom could come to that church service.

and be able to sit in that sanctuary and know that someone or a group of someone's was there where her child was being cared for, where there was some interaction or engagement. And even if that person didn't want that, there were folks there that could at least support her enough so that mom didn't have to come out of a service, that mom could be filled spiritually on that Sunday. And that's a big reason why we like to build those programs

James Moffitt (54:26.783)
Right?

John Fela (54:32.952)
churches because it's so that that individual with a disability can have that same church experience that anybody does, but it also provides very needed respite and support for mom, dad, grandparents, whoever, you know, that are coming on Sunday as well.

James Moffitt (54:52.34)
Well, I think the church leadership has to identify that it's a special need, right? Just like, you know, we have a three-year-old class, a five-year-old class, a seven, you know, all the different age groups. have nursing mothers, for infants, for all the different departments or programs within the children's ministry. All of those age groups and developmental groups.

have been identified and are being addressed. Well, the same thing needs to happen with special needs adults or children, right? This young lady looks like she's, like I said, 17, 18, 19 years old. She appears to be an adult, right? Now she may be at the level of a third grader, but who knows? We can't speak to that. The mother would have to speak to that, right? So the challenge is,

is how would the church, you know, if I went to Chris Gens, who's one of our pastors, and say, hey, obviously we have a special needs person that's sitting in the fellowship hall on the couch while our mother is in church, do we think that maybe we might want to provide some kind of support for her? And what would that support look like? And where would the church leadership go to?

to even research this, right? It make sense?

John Fela (56:24.556)
Right, and that's where I say that the Johnny and Friends is a wonderful resource for this because the reality is that, and I say this to churches all the time, disability ministry right now is a huge movement in the church. There's a lot going on in terms of supporting churches with disability. There are a lot of organizations like Johnny and Friends that I work with on some level that usually can provide training or resources or support. So even if, let's say, we don't have an office in your state or particular area,

we can still try to connect with you and at the very least give you virtual support or resources. But chances are there's probably an organization at least in terms of who I'm connected with where I can say, okay, in your area, this would be a great person to connect with or a great organization. And the other thing too, because I know you've mentioned really.

going to those pastors and those leaders. You know, that's exactly the place that I prefer to start at. When a church reaches out to me, and frequently it'll be some type of like either an associate pastor or let's say a kids ministry director who'll say, you know, we're, we identified, we're trying to help some folks or families in our church. What do we do? And I always start with saying, listen, I can train your volunteers. I can help you put a program together. We can, you know, talk to your staff or whatever, but really I want to talk to your leaders. I want to talk to your head pastor.

to talk to whoever you would say is in charge, who's the decision maker. And here's the reason why, because this is not a band-aid approach type of a deal. This is something that we want in the DNA of the church, as we say, and it's got to come from the top. It's got to come from leadership because not only do you want it to be a priority for the church,

And if leadership is behind it, then they can help to motivate staff, they can help to find volunteers, they can help to make sure that that program is structured well. But by the way, they can also be communicating a message of acceptance and inclusion from the stage, from the pulpit that brings everybody in the church in because many times you have well-meaning churches in terms of the staff and volunteers, but you have a congregation.

John Fela (58:36.418)
that if they're not familiar with disability or not comfortable with it, they're going to start scratching their heads and saying, what is this? We don't understand it. We don't know why it's important. But when that message comes from the top down, then people will start to understand it's something that this church is now embracing. And the churches that I know that I work with that do this really well, regardless of their size, regardless of their resources, how many people they have or whatever, the ones that do it really well understand that and it is supported from the leadership on down.

James Moffitt (59:05.642)
Gotcha. Well, I'm sitting here thinking two things. The first thing that I'm thinking is that church leadership, when you go to them and identify a need, they kind of look at you to provide a solution. So I'm sure that that probably scares. I wouldn't have a clue how to provide a solution other than what you just told me during this podcast, right? And maybe that's the next step. Maybe I need to just send an email to one of the pastors and go.

Hey, do we, you know, I will just say, hey, I've got a, know, ABC is a parenting adult children and I have had several guest speakers that are neurodivergent special needs people, parents, leaders in the community. And I'm sitting here wondering, does our church have something like that? And if it does, what is it? And then say, no, obviously we have a young lady sitting in the fellowship hall that

You know, she is autistic. You know, the church is aware of it. The pastor and the associate pastors at the church are aware of who she is and why she's doing what she's doing, right? Just like if we have a homeless person that has a dog or whatever that comes there once a month or whatever, you know, we all identify, we know who they are. We identify them. We know they're safe. They're not going to cause problems. We let them in, you know, let them have snacks, coffee, drinks.

Let them go to the clothes pantry, go, let them go get groceries, you know, whatever. we provide a welcoming environment for them within reason, right? Now, if they come in and they, they act out or they're begging people for money or they're disruptive, that's a different situation altogether. And that's what the security team and law enforcement is there for to address that, right? If they, if they can't integrate into the worship experience.

James Moffitt (01:01:06.726)
Easily right without causing a disturbance Then you know We have open arms for everybody. We don't we don't watch the doors, you know, if we don't even care if you're LGBTQ a non-binary Black white yellow green purple, know If a spaceship were to land in the parking lot and aliens got out and they wanted to come to church We'd let them come to church. We probably freak out a little bit about that. We'd be like, wait

This is kind of a first encounter for us, you know? And it's of course the same thing, you know, that's the same thing they would know how to communicate with us and us with them. They want trying to vaporize us and all that kind of stuff. I'm going off kilter. I just ran off the rails with that one. But anyway, you know what I'm saying.

John Fela (01:01:53.335)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where it kind of comes back to my point about the awareness piece, just in terms of our culture, period. Because...

you know, very frequently for a lot of churches, it's, you know, they're going to interpret this as this, this is something that, you know, we don't understand. And so if we don't understand it, we don't want it to become a problem. But here's the thing you can, you can always say, like, like you just described in terms of that young lady, she's on the couch. She's got her iPad. She's got her headphones. She's fine. No problem. Okay. But that's not the church being the church, right?

The church would say, know what, she needs to have that time around others her age or a typical, non-typical, whatever that is. She deserves to hear the gospel, to receive a message, to be part of worship, whatever that is. And again, if that's not what she wants to do, then that's okay. But we have to, at the very least, be willing to push ourselves and step out of that comfort zone.

right as we've been saying and say, know what, we do have an obligation here and I say this to churches this way, you have an obligation and an opportunity. The obligation is as the church, you need to be the church, even to these folks, even when you don't understand.

But guess what? You have an opportunity here because if you bless a family like this, like mine, you never know what will unfold in the church. And what I always say is not only will you open up and a lot of churches get, you know, this is where they kind of get afraid because they say, well, if we open up to one family now, next week we're going to have a hundred at our door and we don't know what to do. Well,

John Fela (01:03:37.632)
That's probably not gonna be the case, although there are some churches where that does grow quickly and they're kind of prepared for it. But the other thing is that those individuals, even with a disability, again, going back to my point about the jobs and the employment and stuff, they've got gifts and tools and talent. A lot of the churches that do this very well, people with disabilities are serving.

and serving well, right? And so it's an opportunity for that person to then bless the church back or anybody else in that person's family. And I often say that too, many times, you you welcome a family with disability, most churches are only going to see that person with a disability, they're not going to see mom or dad or typical siblings or grandma, grandpa. They may all want to serve at some capacity. Isn't that great?

And all we have to do is open up our minds and hearts and, by the way, you don't need to be the expert. You can just have that conversation with parents and say, hey, we're learning. We would like to support you guys as much as possible. But at the same time, you want to try to start to build in the culture and the DNA of that church and awareness of it and acceptance of it and be able to at least provide what the church would provide to anybody.

James Moffitt (01:04:45.844)
Right.

John Fela (01:04:51.438)
And as I also say, you the most important resource they can give is the gospel of Jesus Christ, right? So if we're not doing that, then we have to look at what we are doing and why we're not engaging with those folks in the same way.

James Moffitt (01:05:05.108)
Right? Well, I think I'm gonna open up a can of worms.

to write an email and go, hey, what are we doing here?

John Fela (01:05:14.19)
I will definitely be praying for you on that end, of course.

James Moffitt (01:05:17.662)
Well, I may be in touch with you and go, hey, this is what my pastor said, and these are the resources, you know, what resources are in Charleston, South Carolina area that they can tap into, you know, because that's, you know, if I open the door and go, hey, if I identify that there's a special needs person in the church or illuminate, it's not like I'm identifying anything. They already know she's there. If I illuminate.

that maybe there's a need for us to do something a little more than just let her camp out on the couch for two hours, then at that point they're gonna go, well, what are your suggestions? At that point, I'm gonna need some information to shovel their way or to send to them as a resource that they can get in contact with. So, I'll give them your phone number.

John Fela (01:06:01.45)
Well, there's good news.

Katy (01:06:04.924)
Yes, that's funny.

John Fela (01:06:05.11)
No, no, and that's fine. And you're more than welcome to and again, I would point you in the right direction. The good news and the bad news is the bad news is we do not have an office in South Carolina. The good news is we've got an office in North Carolina and also in Atlanta. So one of those offices are going to cover you all. And so those will be the people to connect with. So, you know, what I would encourage you to do is you can, of course, reach out to me, but, for yourself or for anybody that's listening, you can go to the Johnny and Friends website, johnnyandfriends.org, and you can punch your zip

James Moffitt (01:06:20.266)
Sure.

John Fela (01:06:35.07)
code in and you will get connected with whatever office covers your area. And then you can reach out to that office specifically with those needs. Say this is what we're looking for. We need some training, we need some resources, we need some stuff. What can you offer us kind of thing? And again, every part of the country is covered by some office, they may not be next door to you, but everyone has somebody and they can work with you in whatever way is needed.

James Moffitt (01:06:59.582)
I got you. Well, John, thank you for being on the podcast episode this evening. I'm sure that our listening audience, certainly going to, especially the ones that are special needs or have special needs kids of their own or, or people in their family, right? They're gonna, I'm sure a lot of this is going to resonate with them and hopefully provide them with hope and support and resources that they may not be aware of at this time. But, Katie, thank you for being here.

Thank you for listening to me rattle. I want to say to the listening audience, thank you for being here. Thank you for the privilege of your time. You can listen to this audio version of the podcast on Captivate.fm, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Public Radio. I upload the video version of this podcast to rumble.com, comma spelling, r-u-m-b-l-a.com. Our website is located at parentingadultchildren.org.

Common spelling parentingadultchildren.org. The website provides my contact information. leave a voicemail, you can leave me an email and I'll respond. The upcoming show schedules and the blog section. Place to leave a review for this podcast episode or any that you listen to. You just go to the top in the menu selection and click on review and you can write a review. And I want to encourage you to do that. New episodes are released every Friday morning at 8 a.m.

And thank you for listening and everybody have a wonderful evening. We'll talk to you all later.